The Charlie Hebdo cartoons no one is showing you.

[oberliner]

Below are cartoons drawn over the past several decades by Cabu, one of the most emblematic cartoonists at Charlie Hebdo (if not the most). Cabu was murdered along with his colleagues this past week. He was 75 years old.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/11/1357057/-The-Charlie-Hebdo-cartoons-no-one-is-showing-you#

Worth checking out.

[Desert805]

1. Je suis Charlie

Some folks tried to tell some other folks that they were mistaken/far too passionate about something they knew absolutely nothing about, but they wouldn't listen...

Maybe those same "I am NOT Charlie" folks will read your link and comment further? Would be interesting to read if anyone's mind was opened, or if anyone doubles down on their intolerance and ignorance...

[Bluenorthwest]

2. So many people on this website slandered them and worse.

Pathetic liars.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. If that's an accusation, bring your proof, otherwise make clear that you are not accusing me of

doing such a thing because I have not. I will always be unrelentingly critical of anti gay people, do you wish to claim I have no such right? What's your game here?

[rhett o rick]

15. Why don't you call the "liars" out when they lie? Seems like you are trashing DU. nm

[Violet_Crumble]

21. They were using the words of the one they replied to

Why don't you aim it at them? I've yet to see any DUer blame the cartoonists for their own deaths but I've seen enough posts holding most Muslims responsible that Rupert Murdoch would start to feel at home

[oberliner]

27. Interesting

I've seen no posts holding most Muslims responsible for the killings nor have I seen posts blaming the cartoonists for their deaths.

I think one can take some posts and stretch them a bit so they appear to approach the above sentiments but it takes some doing.

[Violet_Crumble]

41. There's definitely been posts here arguing that most Muslims are violent extremists...

A few examples without linking to them coz I don't feel like getting a hidden post would be the one who within a day or so of the Charlie Hedbo massacre had their routine of outright saying that most Muslims are extremists cut short by a 5th hidden post and a well deserved timeout. There's been a few I've seen where when someone points out that most Muslims aren't extremists they arrive in a thread with links to RW crap like religionofpeace.com along with supposed 'facts' on how most Muslims do support extreme things. Or the one we both saw yesterday where someone said in response to the anti-Muslim rallies in Germany that Muslims reap what they sow. While it's in no way more than a small but vocal number of DUers, they're long-term ones and pretty easily distinguishable from others who genuinely don't like religion but sometimes express themselves a bit poorly.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. And yet when challeneged directly the Liar Shouter could not stand up and prove his accuations true.

And that carries more weight that a pile of rhetoric from assistants. That nasty poster made accusations and refused to back them up. Craven, evasive, mean, and probably bigoted.
Many here seem to feel they can insult gay posters with impunity, knowing their pals will come spew some rhetorical bullshit to cover their tracks.

Morally deficient.

[sibelian]

53. Self-deleted.

Is there any doubt? Are we all very clear on this now...

[Violet_Crumble]

55. No it's not clear to us all

So ur going to have to explain it to me coz I feel like Ive tuned into a soap opera with a complex storyline halfway through and I'm thinking 'Huh? Who's the Liar Shouter? Who's their assistant? Should I have googled a fan site that gives a synopsis of every episode?'

So a quick synopsis would be appreciated so I know who's who

[sibelian]

56. YoungDemCa wants people criticising the right wing aspects of Islam

to be seen as morally equivalent to the Republican fuckwits that declared war on Iraq. He didn't say as much, to be fair, but that was the implication from his post further up in this subthread, in which he presumably includes those of us who are unimpressed with Islamic regimes hanging gay people (for a start). He decided we were all pathetic liars and said so. BNW has observed that some members of this board claiming that those who oppose Islam's homophobia are the same people who instructed gay people not to be offended at a homophobic pastor being invited tospeak at Obama's inauguration. Hence my observation, which is actually a continuation of a seperate conversation I am(was) involved with including BNW elsewhere on this site regarding the fascinating process whereby homophobia seems to be perfectly fine if the homophobe is in a "demonised" category. It does not appear to occur to some board members that criticism of Islam is possible from more than one perspective and entailing more than one intent.

Few people seem to worry too much about Islamic homophobia on DU other than DU's gay members, like me. I have been called Islamophobic by people on this board following observations that Islam itself, the belief structure is as responsible for the sickly, neurotic bigotry it propagates as Christianity is for the sickly neurotic bigotry that IT propagates.

I am not particularly respected on DU for saying such things, though I rarely observe them, as doing so typically invites a small crowd of people scrabbling to construct anything at all that makes them look liberals to themselves. Consequently efforts expended by me to clarify the situation (which clarification would rest on the premise of "just cause you're the victim of bigotry doesn't mean you're not a bigot yourself" (which premise has been resoundingly justified on this board, many times, by at least one member of each currently "recognised" target of bigotry)) tend to embolden and exacerbate rather than clarify.

So, I've given up.

[Violet_Crumble]

54. Speaking of proving accusations true

Here's yr chance to prove yrs true. How about providing links to a bunch of posts that support ur claim that many DUers slandered the cartoonists.

[samsingh]

22. some of those 2 billion are supportive of the murder of innocents

in their pursuit of extremism

[sibelian]

47. Have a look at this:

Which scores more points? Opposing Islamophobia or opposing homophobia?

[Desert805]

5. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, not Le Pen!

from:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014987183

Jean-Marie Le Pen, the founder of France's ultra-right, said Saturday that he does not like the slogan "Je suis Charlie" now being used by millions of people to express sympathy with Charlie Hebdo magazine. The father of the current boss of the anti-immigrant Front National (FN) party said that while he regrets the victims of the fatal attack on the editorial offices of the satirical weekly, he must criticize the works of its caricaturists.

"Today everything is l 'we're all Charlie, I am Charlie.' Well I'm sorry, but I'm not Charlie," Le Pen says in a video published online.

Le Pen said he believes the magazine is of an "anarchist-Trotskyist spirit" and contributes to the destruction of political morale; four of its leading caricaturists and its editor-in-chief were murdered last Wednesday by two Islamists. Le Pen said the FN had previously unsuccessfully demanded the closure of the weekly and considers it the enemy.

Charlie Hebdo is a left-wing satirical magazine considered a thorn in the side of Islamists because it caricatured the Prophet Mohammed; it is infamous for its implacability when it came to lampooning politicians' behavior. FN leaders have found themselves caricatured on its pages more than once...

(previously posted this as a reply to a post instead of a reply to the thread on accident--read it wrong-- fixed)

[Fred Sanders]

6. Thank you for the cartoons. "All is forgiven" The Western press is going to be in even more

shock on Wednesday.

[oberliner]

7. Do you think the "All is Forgiven" cover is provocative towards Muslims?

It does feature a cartoon image of Mohammed.

[Fred Sanders]

11. Since "All is Forgiven" is the headline I think there are two similar messages in the cartoon.

The same cartoonist authored a message of peace after the firebombing a few years ago, so the message is consistent.

[oberliner]

14. Interesting

But do you feel that the fact that they chose to include a cartoon depiction of Mohammed is, in and of itself, potentially provocative?

[Fred Sanders]

18. What isn't?

[samsingh]

26. who cares if it is

[840high]

32. I don't.

[samsingh]

23. the western press is corrupt

[msongs]

8. according to some du they deserved to die. oh well nt

[oberliner]

16. I don't think anyone on DU thinks that

But clearly some on DU perceive Charlie Hedbo very negatively.

[Desert805]

17. When you qualify that they didn't deserve to die with a, "but"

It's the "but" that makes people go, hmmmmmm...

*nods to Arsenio*



There shouldn't be a but. Those people didn't deserve to be murdered over cartoons. <-------------Period.



(I haven't seen you use "but"-- quite the opposite-- I'm talking in general.)

[oberliner]

19. I agree with what you are saying here

But I don't think it's fair to jump to saying that there are DUers who actually think the cartoonists deserved to die.

That seems to be going too far.

[Desert805]

20. To my ears (eyes), it's implying they didn't deserve to die, except for this one reason a little bit

I hear ya though. Much gets lost in text.

[oberliner]

24. I get where you are coming from as well

Suffice to say, I strongly disagreed with the sentiments expressed in those "but..." posts.

[samsingh]

25. it is the but that is full of crap

it justifies murder

[treestar]

50. So now we're not allowed compound sentences

I think the idea seems to be: Agree with their cartoons or we get to say you said they deserved to die!

Oh wait, "or" - are conjunctions now allowed!

[cwydro]

9. Thanks for posting these!

[oberliner]

10. Very welcome

Glad some folks took the time to go to the link and look at those cartoons!

[cwydro]

13. Great cartoons.

Such a tragedy.

[840high]

33. I did. Thanks.

[ND-Dem]

36. I went to the link. There's no attribution on any of the cartoons, but one is definitely not from

Charlie hebdo. and since cabu worked for other outfits than CH, we don't really know who published these cartoons.

[oberliner]

43. They are all Cabu's cartoons

And he is one of the faces of the magazine. I think that was the idea - maybe the Daily Kos title should be changed to reflect that it's all about Cabu.

[ND-Dem]

48. yes. my point was that the op presents these cartoons as though representative

of the magazine CH & the work cabu did for that magazine. I'm not sure that's the case, as at least one is definitely not from the magazine and the others have no attribution.

cartoonists can use different styles and sensibilities for different venues. cabu being one of the faces of CH doesn't necessarily mean that these cartoons are representative of the work he did for CH, or of the magazine, which is the implication of the OP.

[oberliner]

49. That said, they are really interesting cartoons

And since Cabu was one of the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists who was murdered, it serves as a nice tribute to him and the work that he has done throughout his career. I think it is good to get a fuller understanding of who these murdered artists were with some of their less publicized works.

[ND-Dem]

51. i don't disagree. but throughout the thread there are posters using these cartoons for a

different purpose.

[bananas]

28. I like this Christmas one - we celebrate the same way in the US!

This cartoon by Cabu depicts young people of color looking at a Christmas display of a toy costume for a CRS, the riot control force of the French National police, which has long been accused of brutality and racism. The critique here is about the normalization of police control and militarization and its negative impact specifically against young people of African descent.

[840high]

29. big k/r

[Jesus Malverde]

30. Kinda blows the narrative people have cultivated.

Interesting post thanks.

[Desert805]

31. yet folks are still clinging to it tight! eom

[fingrin]

34. You're not Charlie Hebdo

unless you are prepared to retweet its most offensive cartoons

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/552994902003286016

[Blue_Tires]

37. Oh, right...Because Assange gets to make the rules

governing other's behavior...

[Ykcutnek]

38. The Christ of the miscreants.

If only Assange could figure out how to hammer the second nail through his hand.

[fingrin]

52. I find the cartoon highly offensive

and i'm not even Muslim. Since i'm unsure how to post images a brief description will have to suffice.

On the set of the scandalous movie about Mohammad

Arab holding a pigs head "Are you sure Mohammed had sexual relations with a pigs head?
Director "I cant afford to pay a 9 year old prostitute man.

Translation: Mohammed was into beastality with pigs and his wife was a prostitute.

That is not satire but deliberate Blasphemy designed to inflict hurt.
Legally allowable, but morally its B/S

Now lets turn this situation around and imagine its someone of the Jewish faith. The outcry would be huge and rightly so, yet we clearly have double standards.
I believe in free speech but with free speech comes responsibility. Responsibility to speak out and try to maintain a balance of what is fair or right, failure to speak only results in the hate mongers winning and corrupting everyone.

[mountain grammy]

35. Thanks for posting. I don't know why, but I was surprised to see

cartoons addressing problems of racism, profiling and excessive force by police. I hadn't realized these issues had reached such a level in France and that America is not unique in this area. For some reason, I thought they were better than us in these matters.

The deaths of these outspoken and talented journalists is a tragedy. Cabu's work is great.

[MADem]

46. Not surprising at all--and in "progressive" France, you can hear some really, nasty

racist comments on the streets, without shame, if you just listen. It's a bit shocking hearing members of minority groups likened to rats by people who look friendly and kind until they open their mouths.

They've come a long way from wagging fingers at USA while embracing Josephine Baker...and not in a good way, either.

There were race riots in France (stuff was burning) a couple of years back.

This article predates the recent violence:



http://www.thelocal.fr/20140402/on-in-three-french-say-they-are-racist

[CrawlingChaos]

39. Those seem pretty old - not a reflection of recent years

The article doesn't specify - just says they are from "the last several decades".

Again, I would like to quote Tariq Ramadan from last Thursday's Democracy Now, in a discussion with Art Spiegelman:

TARIQ RAMADAN: We are talking here about a policy that was said by Charlie Hebdo over the last years that is mainly targeting the Muslims. My point here is, once again, I’m not—

ART SPIEGELMAN: But why?

TARIQ RAMADAN: I’m not—

ART SPIEGELMAN: Why were they targeting Muslims? Do you think it’s—

TARIQ RAMADAN: I’m not—you know why? You know what? You know why? It’s mainly a question of money. They went bankrupt, and you know this. They went bankrupt over the last two years. And what they did with this controversy is that Islam today and to target Muslims is making money. It has nothing to do with courage. It has to do with making money and targeting the marginalized people in the society.

The point for me now is just to come with you, as somebody who is involved in this, and to come with the principles that you are making now, and to come and to say, look, now, in the United States of America as well as in the West, everywhere, we should be able to target the people the same way and then to find a way to talk to one another in a responsible way, not by throwing on each other our rights, but coming together with our duties, our responsibilities to live together.

I think that what you are saying now could be dangerous if you are not coming to the facts, but just with the impression that their past is similar to the present. Charlie Hebdo is not the satirical magazine of the past. It is now ideologically oriented. And Philippe Val, who was a leftist in the past, now is supporting all the theses of the far-right party, very close to the Front National. So, don’t come with something which is politically completely not accurate.

[oberliner]

40. Another creep blaming the cartoonists for their murder

Truly despicable.

Edit to add: The creep I mean is Tariq Ramadan, not the DU-er who posted his words.

[m-lekktor]

42. I agree. K & R nt

[backscatter712]

45. Je suis Charlie Hebdo! n/t