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Behind the Aegis

(53,963 posts)
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 05:12 AM Jan 2015

Thirty years later, Hattab family loses another member to anti-Semitism

Yoav Hattab, 21, was killed during the kosher supermarket attack in France; his aunt Yehudit Bucharis was killed in 1985 attack in Tunisian synagogue.

The attack at the Hyper Cacher grocery store in suburban Paris on Friday was not the first time terror has struck the family of Yoav Hattab – one of the four victims who was killed during the gruesome attack in France.

Hattab's aunt, who he had never met, was killed when she was 14-years-old during an attack on a syngagoe on the island of Djerba in Tunisia. On October 8th 1985, a local police officer opened fire during Simchat Torah prayers at the synagogue, killing three people – one of them Yehudit Bucharis. Yehudit's mother, and Yoav's grandmother, now lives in the city of Ofakim in southern Israel.

The synagogue attack in 1985 came about a week after Israel had bombed the PLO headquarters in Tunisia as part of Operation Wooden Leg. The bombing led the Jewish community of Tunisia to fear they would suffer retribution attacks. After a quiet yet tense week – which included insults and isolated incidents of stone throwing at Jewish stores – the shooting attack occurred at the Tunisian synagogue.

The gunman shot a round of submachine fire – first at the synagogue where the men were located, and later at the hostel nearby - which served as the women's section of the temple. Along with Bucharis, 5-year-old Yoav Hadad was killed along with 56-year-old Haim Cohen who worked at the synagogue.


Hattab was killed while trying to take weapon from terrorist.

more: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4614387,00.html

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Thirty years later, Hattab family loses another member to anti-Semitism (Original Post) Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 OP
thanks for posting this Pooka Fey Jan 2015 #1
are there many cases of Buddhists attacking Jewish people and places ? JI7 Jan 2015 #2
It seems that the monotheistic religions have some angry adherents. LuvNewcastle Jan 2015 #13
hindus don't have issues with anger? please. ND-Dem Jan 2015 #27
I didn't say that other religions don't LuvNewcastle Jan 2015 #30
"seem" being the operative word. violence is typically state-sponsored, in that states ND-Dem Jan 2015 #32
All Buddhists are hardly pacifists, although Jews are usually not their targets. branford Jan 2015 #21
how sad. cali Jan 2015 #3
The violence last July in France when thousands of young Muslim men filled the streets of Paris aint_no_life_nowhere Jan 2015 #4
You are correct many are reluctant to talk about some serious issues. Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 #6
ack. cali Jan 2015 #8
I don't think it should be that difficult to discuss without being called anti-Muslim... Violet_Crumble Jan 2015 #19
I think the insistence we see that they aren't really Muslims cali Jan 2015 #29
Great post....as usual. Rhinodawg Jan 2015 #18
. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2015 #5
You cannot tell me JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #7
I know what you mean. Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 #9
Well said, BTA. freshwest Jan 2015 #25
Right here, on DU, just yesterday leftynyc Jan 2015 #31
I'm watching his funeral right not leftynyc Jan 2015 #10
~~~*~~~ Hekate Jan 2015 #11
One more life wasted malaise Jan 2015 #12
What do you think is the root of anti-semitism? LuvNewcastle Jan 2015 #14
"The Jews killed Jesus" is one historic reason. hack89 Jan 2015 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author JI7 Jan 2015 #17
It's not just Jews, many minorities have these problems JI7 Jan 2015 #16
There's a lengthy conversation! LOL! Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 #22
Thanks for the reply. LuvNewcastle Jan 2015 #24
This was fortutitous... Behind the Aegis Jan 2015 #33
RIP Yoav Hattab. He died a hero n/t Violet_Crumble Jan 2015 #20
How terrible that any family should experience this. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #23
Just heartwrenching TorchTheWitch Jan 2015 #26
Oh NO! .. Cha Jan 2015 #28

JI7

(89,254 posts)
2. are there many cases of Buddhists attacking Jewish people and places ?
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 05:20 AM
Jan 2015

since we are to believe these things just happen and has nothing to do with background. we should have a similar number of those who claim to be buddhists doing the same.

i wish we could discuss this .

LuvNewcastle

(16,847 posts)
13. It seems that the monotheistic religions have some angry adherents.
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 07:21 AM
Jan 2015

I guess it's because their god has some issues with anger. Hindus do have Kali, but she is one of many gods and goddesses in that religion. The other religions that aren't monotheistic don't seem to have this problem with anger that the monotheistic religions do. It is strange and worth exploring. We could have a hell of a long discussion on that issue. Start a thread.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
27. hindus don't have issues with anger? please.
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 04:46 AM
Jan 2015

Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi was assassinated... at 5:17 PM on 30 January 1948.... when his assassin, Nathuram Godse, fired three bullets from a Beretta 9 mm pistol into his chest at point-blank range.

Godse was a Hindu nationalist with links to the extremist Hindu Mahasabha, who held Gandhi guilty of favouring Pakistan and strongly opposed the doctrine of nonviolence.[119]

Godse and his co-conspirator were tried and executed in 1949.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi#Assassination

LuvNewcastle

(16,847 posts)
30. I didn't say that other religions don't
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 08:33 AM
Jan 2015

have angry adherents. I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer. All I was saying is that people who have polytheistic beliefs generally seem to be more tolerant of other religions. They don't have this 'my way or the highway' attitude.

Take ancient Rome as an example. The Romans had many gods and goddesses and when they came upon people who worshiped different deities, the Romans would adopt them as well. It would be unthinkable for a monotheistic religion to do that. They don't even want to accept other deities as manifestations of one god.

The Romans were violent, they just didn't commonly use religion as the reason behind their violence. They would just say that they were doing it to get more land or possessions. At least that's honest. You can reason with people like that.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
32. "seem" being the operative word. violence is typically state-sponsored, in that states
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 01:12 PM
Jan 2015

manipulate the people. and there's always some way to manipulate the people, whether they believe in one god or many.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hindu+violence

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
3. how sad.
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 05:22 AM
Jan 2015

there is something people here are reluctant to talk about- and I understand it. That subject is the burgeoning anti-semitism in France which has manifested itself over the past few years in serious hate crimes- including murder, abduction, rape and torture. These acts have all been carried out by young Muslim men. Of course, these yobs are a tiny minority and don't represent the vast majority of Muslims in France or anywhere else, but it is happening and it is a real problem.

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
4. The violence last July in France when thousands of young Muslim men filled the streets of Paris
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 05:46 AM
Jan 2015

to protest the Israeli actions in Gaza were scary. Instead of protesting in front of the Israeli embassy as they should when protesting the actions of a foreign nation, they chose instead to attack the businesses of French Jews. These were anti-Semitic protests and not political protests. Besides burning cars and breaking the store fronts of businesses in a Jewish neighborhood, they also attacked a synagogue, trapping worshippers inside, and trying to set it on fire. Had they succeeded, it would have been another major incident of violence. I've watched the many youtube vids of those incidents and I don't blame Jews for wanting to seek refuge in Israel. One day it's really going to get out of control.

Behind the Aegis

(53,963 posts)
6. You are correct many are reluctant to talk about some serious issues.
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 05:48 AM
Jan 2015

I just posted this Charlie Hebdo: first they came for the cartoonists, then they came for the Jews over in "Good Reads". Know how I found it? By reading this: What Jews can learn from Muslims The "What Jews" author, Deborah Maccoby, Executive, Jews for Justice for Palestinians, writes:

If world Jewish organisations were to learn from their Muslim counterparts and say loud and clear in response to Israeli atrocities “not in my name”, this could help to reduce antisemitism and make the recruitment of young Muslims by jihadis more difficult. Despite Freedland’s claim that Jews have “no control” over Israeli policies, such condemnation could also exert strong pressure on the Israeli government to stop its atrocities and enter into genuine peace negotiations with the Palestinian unity government.


Of course, had she bothered to actually comprehend the article to which she refers, she wouldn't have made such an ignorant comment. Because he clearly said:

It follows that our responsibility is to thwart that effort. For Muslims, that has meant spelling out that these killers speak only for themselves. Note the speed with which a delegation of 20 imams visited the Charlie Hebdo offices, branding the gunmen “criminals, barbarians, satans” and, crucially, “not Muslims”.

Of course they should not have to do it. The finger-wagging demand that Muslims condemn acts of terror committed by jihadist cultists is odious: it tacitly assumes that Muslims support such horror unless they explicitly say otherwise. The very demand serves to drive a wedge between Muslims and their fellow citizens. (As it happens, Jews have some experience of this feeling: we too are sometimes told we have to condemn this or that action taken by others – and over which we have no control – if our place in polite society is to be secure.)
(bold added)

It goes to show...it always the Jews' fault! Of course, it's even better when it comes from a Jew.

As much as people are lambasting Netanyahu (and Le Pen, for other reasons) for "taking advantage" of the situation, there are plenty on the other side of the spectrum doing the exact same thing!

France has become of cauldron of bigotry, much of it anti-immigration...shocker, and the predictable target, is, of course, Jews, not just the immigrants.
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
8. ack.
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 06:07 AM
Jan 2015

thanks for the link.

Seriously, it is difficult to discuss the situation in France vis a vis the anti-semitic crimes being committed without being accused of being anti-Muslim. I find that disturbing. I've been outspoken here about condemning what I see as Israeli crimes against the Palestinians and rarely gotten any shit for that, but I'm much more cautious of bringing this up.

Violet_Crumble

(35,970 posts)
19. I don't think it should be that difficult to discuss without being called anti-Muslim...
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 08:32 AM
Jan 2015

You and I have both been called names at DU for condemning Israeli crimes against the Palestinians, and just like a few did that, a few DUers will call you names for discussing the situation in France. The line that anything would cross into bigotry territory is when someone makes broadbrush generalisations about an entire group of people. But it isn't bigotry to discuss things that I suspect have to do with the situation, like radicalisation of some Muslim youth who aren't immigrants, but second or third generation citizens of France. The situation seems to be different than it is here, where we have problems on a far smaller scale with radicalisation but attacks on Jews are very rare, but the whole alienation of children of parents who immigrated and made a life for themselves seems a bit similar. I don't understand it. When I was young and feeling alienated and angsty I wore black, moped around a lot, listened to the Sisters Of Mercy, and felt damn sorry for myself coz no-one understood me. I think if some charismatic religious bloke had come up to me and told me that I could find soul-mates who understood my angst and we could bond by attacking Jews and going to the Middle East to murder rape and pillage, I wouldn't have found that particularly tempting at all...

Apart from radicalisation I kind of suspect that there's other common themes between those Muslim youth and the rise of the far-right anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim groups in Europe, and that's stuff like high unemployment rates, a shit economy and the need for handy scapegoats. But when it comes to DU I suspect having any sort of constructive discussion would be doomed to failure coz there's just far too much one-dimensional black and white thinking, which isn't unusual on discussion forums...

btw, good to see you again

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
29. I think the insistence we see that they aren't really Muslims
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 05:24 AM
Jan 2015

does make it difficult.

And here's the thing Violet; I think that Islam itself is worth criticizing- just as Christianity and Judaism and any other religion can and should be looked at critically.

 

Rhinodawg

(2,219 posts)
18. Great post....as usual.
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 07:50 AM
Jan 2015

(I almost blew a gasket reading the top part.)

During the Sunday rally,CNN has a non-covered Muslim young lady who was holding a "Je Suis Juif" sign saying the attacks is not what being a muslim is all about and she decried the actions of these terrorists.

Gave me some hope.


Great post BTA.



JustAnotherGen

(31,829 posts)
7. You cannot tell me
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 05:56 AM
Jan 2015

That 21 year old - to me a kid - in Paris . . . Has one single thing to do with the global political climate that creates the environment for extremists to thrive - and deserved his death.


To me? That's the face of these murders. So much hope in that smile.

Behind the Aegis

(53,963 posts)
9. I know what you mean.
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 06:10 AM
Jan 2015

It is no different than his aunt's story, who was 14 at the time, was killed because of something Israel did. It is the double standard spewed by many who call themselves "progressives." They scream, "don't blame all Muslims for the actions of these people!" but immediately turn around and refer to attacks against Jews as "blowback," "not necessarily anti-Semitism because Israel did XYZ," and "how many Palestinian children has Israel killed?"

Attacking unrelated people because of something people of the same race, religion, sexual orientation, or what-have-you did to someone else is the height of bigotry, ignorance, and hate. It does nothing but continue the cycle of violence.

This kid (I thought the same thing too...we're old!) died trying to protect others...a Jew. Of course, a Muslim, in the same situation, saved the lives of several others. What do they have in common? They are both heroes!

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
31. Right here, on DU, just yesterday
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 08:48 AM
Jan 2015

I had someone answer a post of mine where I said there was an obvious anti-semetic angle to the French attack with some bullshit about Bibi horning in on the event. As if one had anything to do with the other. Don't have to look too far to see that bullshit - it's right here on DU. Spit.

LuvNewcastle

(16,847 posts)
14. What do you think is the root of anti-semitism?
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 07:38 AM
Jan 2015

I've never understood it, really, but I've never been around the devout Jews who dress differently and have their own customs. I've only known a few Jews, but they were just like me. What is the problem? I look at Jews as sort of a tribe, like American Indians have tribes. Or the Rom people. Why have the Jews been singled out and persecuted in so many places where they've settled? Is it because they've lived together and had their own neighborhoods and ghettos? People who have things in common tend to want to live together in cities. It isn't just Jews. So what? I just don't get it.

Response to hack89 (Reply #15)

JI7

(89,254 posts)
16. It's not just Jews, many minorities have these problems
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 07:44 AM
Jan 2015

But the difference or issue now is people trying to deny or excuse the attacks against them.

Speaking of France it has been another minority group that had mostly attacked them.

Behind the Aegis

(53,963 posts)
22. There's a lengthy conversation! LOL!
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 05:28 PM
Jan 2015

I'll attempt to be brief, a true feat for me.

There are a number of roots for anti-Semitism. As someone already mentioned, there is the "Jews killed Jesus" myth that is very popular in Christian anti-Semitism. It was confused with "blood libel," which is something else all together. It is based on xenophobic fears of "the other," in this case, Jews and their practices. The "Jews and money" tropes are an invention of the Middle Ages, when Jews were charged with handling money because usury was considered a sin, but the Church had to make money, so they ran it through a third-party, Jews. Also, because Jews do not proselytize, they were seen as "exclusive and insular," and in conjunction with the oft-misused phrase "the Chosen people," it became "Jews think they are better than everyone else." Jews also usually spoke more than one language and it was seen as subversive. We are seen as "clever and tricky" because Judaism holds a great love of education, not just religious, but secular as well. During the Middle Ages, again, rumors spread how Jews were killing Christians with disease. The Black Plague killed Jews as well, but not in the same number. As you said, Jews often lived in their own neighborhoods and we have very strict guidelines about cleanliness, which were not a common practice among many during that time. Because of restrictions to certain jobs, Jews often made their way in certain fields where they were allowed to have some control, such as journalism, movies, and the like; thus was born, Jews control the media (or its sister slur, usually by self-professed progressives and leftists, Zionists control the media). Banking and finance was simply a historical choice of professions started, as I said above, in the Middle Ages. Jews also tend to adapt to social change, thus when things like Civil Rights came along, Jews were accused of trying to destroy the "white man" (Jews aren't considered "white" unless it is convenient to a narrative) and others claimed it was another example of Jews using the Black man to do his dirty work. Then there is Israel, the sole country of Jewish nature and that spawns an entirely different set of anti-Semitic issues, often called the "new anti-Semitism."

To date, there are around 13.9 million Jews in the world, making us .196% of the world population and many of the 200 plus countries in the world don't even have Jewish citizens, yet, we are to blame for the world's ills.

LuvNewcastle

(16,847 posts)
24. Thanks for the reply.
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 12:12 AM
Jan 2015

I didn't know the story about the plague victims. I'll bet that did cause some animosity between the Jews and the rest of the people in towns and cities. That and the whole thing with Jews as money lenders probably were probably major causes of distrust between Christians and Jews. It's a shame that hate gets passed down in families even when the money and everything else runs out.

It's so odd to me that in this day and age, the same old bigotries are re-surfacing. People are expected to conform or face the consequences. It seems that as the world tries to become more homogeneous, there will be less and less tolerance for those who don't conform. It's sad, but I don't see any way to turn around that trend. Maybe that Jewish-controlled media can change hearts and minds.

Behind the Aegis

(53,963 posts)
33. This was fortutitous...
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 01:13 PM
Jan 2015
Anti-Semitic views are not uncommon among British people, according to a separate study conducted by pollster YouGov for the CAA.
A quarter of the 3,411 adults surveyed by YouGov agreed that Jews chase money more than other British people.

Seventeen per cent thought Jews had too much power in the media, 13 per cent said Jews talked about the Holocaust to get sympathy. Overall, 45 per cent agreed with at least one anti-Semitic statement.
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/british-jews-fear-future-in-europe-poll_1530281.html

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
23. How terrible that any family should experience this.
Tue Jan 13, 2015, 06:40 PM
Jan 2015

These delusional killers actually believe that God wants them to murder others.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Thirty years later, Hatta...