Middle School Asks Kids To Bring In Cans To Fight School Shooters

[gvstn]

In a letter to parents obtained by WHNT, W.F. Burns Middle School principal Priscella Holley and assistant principal Donna Bell asked each student to bring in a canned food item to throw at an intruder.

“We realize at first this may seem odd, however it is a practice that would catch an intruder off-guard,” the letter said. “The canned food item could stun the intruder or even knock him out until the police arrive. The canned food item will give the students a sense of empowerment to protect themselves and will make them feel secure in case an intruder enters their classroom.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/stephaniemcneal/middle-school-asks-kids-to-bring-in-cans-to-fight-school-sho#.uorm6OALL

I can't believe this got the OK from district officials. What is wrong with people?

[flamin lib]

1. would reply but am speechless . . .

[Autumn]

2. Yeah cause a fucking can of peaches can stop a nut with a gun

This woman needs to be fired.

[oberliner]

43. It's not an idea this MS principal came up with

It's a part of a program supported by the US Dept of Education (and promoted by VP Biden)

[Autumn]

55. Biden?

Idiot

[oberliner]

60. Why do you find it to be so idiotic?

If you read the protocols, they suggest "run, hide, fight" in that order.

The fight scenario is one of last resort when it is impossible to run and hide. It could be helpful to have a can or a textbook as opposed to not in that dire situation.

Though sadly, once things reach that point - it is unlikely there will be a positive outcome (which is why it is last resort).

[Politicalboi]

3. I thought they meant aluminum cans

So they can buy their own lobbyist to have sane gun laws. Silly me.

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. They are just using carrying around cans as indoctrination to walking around carrying guns all day..

[petronius]

5. Hope they're going to give the kids harnesses, so that they can wear a half-dozen

cans slung like grenades across the chest at all times. It would be a shame to get ambushed en route to the swing set while your can of soup was sitting uselessly in your cubby-hole next to the paste and crayons...

[Fred Sanders]

6. They will be NRA approved cans? And will Alabama give them can throwing training against a homicidal

maniac armed to the teeth with killing machines.

"Aim for the head, little Johnny, not the bullet proof vest"?

Why do they call some folks "educaters".

[jmowreader]

7. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a can of beans?

[Oklahoma_Liberal]

8. This is stupid.

That said, I would rather have something to throw than get executed while hiding under a desk.

[alp227]

9. WASTING FOOD! nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Or, they could bring bags of gumballs to strew on the floor and trip him. Or, smother him with

marshmallows. Or, freeze his trigger finger with green Popsicles.

Or, they could have the Principal and Vice Principal committed to an asylum for the terminally stupid.

[bluesbassman]

12. Or maybe a bowling ball propped above the door that'll fall on the shooter's head when he comes in.

Maybe they should rename the school to Three Stooges Middle School.

[Lurks Often]

13. These are the people in charge of teaching our children?

Fire them and revoke anything that allows them to teach or be in a position of responsibility around children.

I think I lack the words to fully describe how stupid the principal and vice-principal are.

[oberliner]

26. It's a part of a program supported by the US Dept of Education (and promoted by VP Biden)

Lockdown is no Longer Enough!

“There are three basic options: run, hide, or fight. You can run away from the shooter, seek a secure place where you can hide and/or deny the shooter access, or incapacitate the shooter to survive and protect others from harm.” [Page 63] “If running is not a safe option, hide in as safe a place as possible. Students and staff should be trained to hide in a location where the walls might be thicker and have fewer windows. In addition: Hide along the wall closest to the exit but out of the view from the hallway (allowing for an ambush of the shooter and for possible escape if the shooter enters the room).” [Page 65] MULTIPLE RESPONSE OPTIONS NEEDED “As the situation develops, it is possible that students and staff will need to use more than one option.” [Page 64] THOSE IN HARMS WAY SHOULD MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS “While they should follow the plan and any instructions given during an incident, often they will have to rely on their own judgment to decide which option will best protect lives.” [Page 64]

http://www.alicetraining.com/what-we-do/alice-componets/k-12/

One of the suggestions included is for the students to have something with them in the worst case scenario of the shooter breaking through and getting into the barricaded room where they are hiding.

[Lurks Often]

28. It's still a stupid idea

Middle school children aren't going to stop a person wanting to kill them, almost certainly a physically healthy adult, by throwing cans.

[oberliner]

30. Hiding behind a desk probably won't stop a person wanting to kill them either

We are talking about a worst case scenario moment of last resort if a shooter manages to make their way into the classroom where the kids are hiding.

[HappyMe]

31. Yeah, standing up and throwing a can is a great idea

if somebody gets into the room.

[oberliner]

32. No one is supposed to stand

Did you read the suggestions in the ALICE protocol?

The protocol suggests: run, hide, fight - in that order.

The fight option is the worst case scenario option of last resort when you are unable to run and unable to hide.

If you are trapped/cornered unable to run and unable to hide it would be better to have some object such as a can or textbook or rather than no object.

Of course, once you find yourself in that situation, things are pretty dire regardless.

[HappyMe]

33. I still think it's a stupid idea.

[oberliner]

35. Fair enough

But I would at least hope to establish the point that this isn't just some lone school principal coming up with a wacky idea - it is actually coming from protocols suggested by the US Dept of Education and promoted by VP Biden.

[HappyMe]

36. Departments and people don't always have the best of ideas.

Give the cans to the local food pantry, and keep brainstorming.

[oberliner]

41. That is true

I do sometimes wonder, however, at the efficacy of the lockdown approach - although I certainly don't have any better ideas myself having not studied the subject particularly closely.

[HappyMe]

44. Fix it so the nutbars can't get in in the first place.

I think lockdown and tighter security at the doors would be a start.

[oberliner]

45. What if the shooter is a student or relative?

Or has some connection to the school that would grant him access, as has sadly often been the case.

Unless you create a really military-base style set-up at school (which I don't think anyone wants) there isn't going to be a way to prevent a student, employee, or relative from getting on campus.

[HappyMe]

48. To me, this kind of thing needs to have security experts

on the case. I don't particularly care for a military type set up, but something with some teeth has to be set up.
If it's kids lives vs. a little inconvenience ...
Unless every kid in the school is a CY Young winner, cans won't cut it.

[reddread]

50. the old ticking time bomb scenario

and here we are.

[oberliner]

51. With more than 25+ years of experience as a law enforcement officer and security consultant...

...Crane has firmly established himself as one of the foremost school safety and active shooter specialist in the nation. To his credit, ALICE was the very first training program in the country that provided staff and students with optional responses to an active shooter gaining entry into a classroom – other than a lockdown-only approach that entails sitting against a wall or under a desk.

http://www.alicetraining.com/about-us/team/

I am again quoting the ALICE truanting institute that came up with the idea of having cans or textbooks as a last resort when running and hiding are impossible.

Not trying to be difficult - just saying that these folks are security experts and this is what they came up with.

[HappyMe]

53. lol! Pretty sad.

Keep brainstorming with a new security guy.

[gvstn]

49. It is a lone principal that is copying a nearby district's idea.

The thing is that an 8.5 ounce can of vegetables is a pretty crappy plan. Since the principal wants to create a stockpile of weapons to be used in case of an attack then I think there would be better choices than just another "whatever is at hand" type of idea. She could give every teacher a bean bag gun if she was serious about "fighting back". To "arm" each classroom with 30 tin cans sounds ridiculous on its face. Yes, if all else fails you want to fight back but if the best she can come up with is 30 donated cans of food it is a pretty poor plan.

[oberliner]

52. No it's not

From 2013:

Equipped with Cans of Soup- The Alice Drill

For those of you who went to Dunkin Donuts during C Block on Thursday October 24th, the school completed its first ALICE drill to prepare for intruders in the case of a dangerous incident. ALICE stands for Alert-Lockdown-Inform-Counter-Evacuate and was mandated by the state to provide an alternative solution to the previous lockdown method. In the past, the school has advised students to stay in their classrooms against the walls with the lights turned off and the doors locked. The goal was to avoid chaos in the hallways, and potentially creating targets in large numbers. However, after further examination of these methods in school shootings throughout the nation, this response did not seem adequate. In the Sandy Hook Newtown shooting incident that occurred December 14, 2012, students were harmed because they stayed in their classrooms and followed protocol. In light of these incidents, Massachusetts has decided to implement the ALICE system which allows teachers and students to respond the threat in a manner they deem necessary.

http://www.cchsvoice.org/equipped-with-cans-of-soup-the-alice-drill/

This is something that is part of a Dept of Education program that is being promoted by the White House to schools across the US.

[gvstn]

58. From your article

He leaves us with an important message that “school is statistically the safest place you can be on any given day.

This is true because in a school there is not a stockpile of weapons to be grabbed by middle school students to hurt each other with when they get angry. If the school wants to protect its kids against a Sandy Hook type situation then the "plan" would be to fortify the doors to individual classrooms and have a lockdown/alarm type emergency button to push to warn all classrooms of an emergency.

For what it is worth most school shootings take place between class times when there are large groups of kids moving about freely. Sandy Hook was an anomaly in that the shooter just wanted to kill random numbers of kids that he didn't know.

[oberliner]

59. Agreed

I would point out, though, that there are lots of things middle school students could use to hurt each other when they get angry.

I don't have particularly strong opinions about the cans idea, but I do not like how this headline (and story) appear to mock this school administration when they are actually attempting to implement a protocol suggested to them by a government-supported organization.

[gvstn]

62. My gripe is that the idea gives kids the wrong impression.

Of course, you want something to fight back with in a life or death struggle as ALICE suggests. I'm just saying that stockpiling cans somehow makes throwing cans at people acceptable to a middle-schooler's mind. I remember middle school and there are kids that have no impulse control at that age. How many kids get hurt each year from dodge-ball or snowballs? Plenty I would guess. This idea just seems to make throwing cans an acceptable behavior.

I realize that the principal in this case is working with a limited budget and wants to be seen doing something rather than nothing. I can sympathize but still get mad at the idea that time and money is spent drilling on what to do during a school shooting but there is no money available for art or music classes. Perhaps if schools offered something for everyone then there would be less school shootings to worry about defending against.

I guess it is the idea that the principal is asking parents to donate cans of food as a way of gathering support and then saying they will again donate the cans to charity at the end of the year to make it all seem good and normal that makes the whole idea seem so distasteful to me. Manipulative in a way I don't like.

[oberliner]

63. Good and reasonable points

Makes sense.

[reddread]

64. ANYTHING except stop the selling of mechanized weapons

that would solve nothing. he dripped sarcastically.

[oberliner]

67. Sadly, a school doesn't have the power the make that happen

They have to operate in the world they are living in.

[Lurks Often]

37. It remains a stupid idea, although I can't think of a better one given the scenario you describe

I am of the firm belief that taking basic security measures as hardening doors and controlling access will do a far better job of preventing another school shooting without turning schools into "fortresses".

[oberliner]

40. OK - but it's not the middle school's stupid idea

I feel like this article sets the reader up to believe that this lone MS principal came up with some ridiculous idea that everyone can make jokes about when in reality it comes from suggestions proscribed to them in a Dept of Education protocol handout.

[Lurks Often]

46. A reporter pushing an agenda? I'm shocked, shocked I say!

[oberliner]

47. Yeah - exactly

The headline is just ridiculous and meant to make the school and its administrators look like idiots.

Seems to be a common theme among certain news outlets - making teachers/schools appear incompetent for one reason or another.

[DustyJoe]

61. Good Idea

We'll just put this idea with the VPs last one of hearing a noise and ripping a few shots in the air from a shotgun to scare the bad guy away. Another totally laughable scenario by the edumacation and security experts. Next they'll tell the kids to have at least 6 sharpened pencils on them at all times to throw as tiny spears or poke the bad guys.

[oneshooter]

14. There is a poster here that recomends a can of beans,

or a bicycle tire as defense against armed attackers.

[Hoyt]

16. Actually that poster was responding to gun fanciers that said they tote while bicycle riding.

That poster said it is unlikely you would need a gun (nor would any self-respecting bicyclist add the weight of a gun) and in a pinch just about anything works -- a can of beans, or the sharp sprocket of a rear wheel that can be removed in seconds.

But, if you feel you need a gun or two strapped to your body to ride or go to Chuck E Cheese -- Well, I'll pray for you.

[friendly_iconoclast]

17. That posters' proclaimed expertise in re self-defense was presented without evidence...

...and frankly their ratio of "things they empatically pontificate about vs. things they are actually
familiar with" is on the order of people like Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh, and any random
Fox News talking head...

[Hoyt]

18. I'm sure they support gunz too.

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. Their claim of being able to strip an M1911 underwater kinda pushed it over the line...

...from "well, maybe they really *do* know what they are talking about" into
"Walter Mitty of gun control" territory.

That, and selling the guns they owned instead of simply destroying them.
They didn't give a shit about what they were used for, as long as they could say
"I sold them through the proper channels"- somewhat like Tom Lehrer's song "Wernher von Braun":

"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.

[beevul]

20. Can you think of a worse "pinch" than a mass shooting, hoyt?

"in a pinch just about anything works"

Can you think of a worse "pinch" than a mass shooting, hoyt?

*shakes head*

[Hoyt]

22. Just what we need, some cowboy coming to rescue. You'd just make things

worse.

If there are two or three cowboys, folks will get caught in the wild crossfire, and it will be tough to identify who is the original gunman. You saw how effective the policeman was in Paris. Besides, a frail elderly lady stopped Loughner. But, you guys keep training for that day, and riding a bicycle with a gun tucked in your spandex.

[friendly_iconoclast]

66. Another evidence-free claim from you: "If there are two or three cowboys, folks will get caught...

...in the wild crossfire, and it will be tough to identify who is the original gunman."

Your sort has been saying this sort of thing for years, without ever giving a real-life
example of such a thing happening.

It's the gun control advocates' version of "Obama's Secret Plan!"

[Hoyt]

68. So who tells you gunners, you can stop these things -- NRA, Massad Ayoob, your inner herowannabe?

[Hoyt]

15. If we had substituted bean cans for guns decades ago, think how much better things would be today.

[ManiacJoe]

24. Then there is that global warming problem.

[betsuni]

21. What's wrong with good old-fashioned rocks? Too Paleolithic?

But if the only way to get kids to pick up a vegetable is throwing cans of them, I guess ...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

23. Note to Principal Holley: the movie Home Alone wasn't an instructional video.

[HappyMe]

27. lol! Yeah, I agree.

This is pretty stupid. Flinging cans is not a good security plan.

[oberliner]

34. You should forward that note to the Obama administration

As this is part of an initiative that US Department of Education is promoting, with VP Biden taking taking the lead.

[oberliner]

25. This makes sense

“The major point of the training (which is called ALICE – Alert, lockdown, inform, counter, and evacuate) is to be able to get kids evacuated and not be sitting ducks hiding under desks,” Hodge wrote in an email.

Even if you can’t escape and are barricaded behind closed doors to avoid the shooter, there are still steps to take to increase your safety, suggests an Auburn University ALICE video. Auburn is providing the training to the school district.

Once the door has been locked and barricaded and students have moved to an area out of sight, students should have a plan if the attacker breaks into the room.

That’s when canned goods and other classroom items come into play.

“Start gathering several items you can use to protect yourself. Every room has something you can use to distract and defend from the aggressors’ attack,” says the Auburn video’s narrator. “Communicate with others around you and tell them your plan. Don’t wait until the aggressor gets into your safe area to have a plan of action.”

Students can throw books, book bags, computers and, yes, those canned goods to distract any aggressor.

http://ktla.com/2015/01/14/alabama-students-asked-to-bring-canned-goods-to-school-to-throw-at-possible-gunmen/

[freeplessinseattle]

29. Especially spinach! Word is it can give you instant strength, like Popeye! n/t

[reddread]

38. sling shot snipers doubling as crossing guards and hall monitors

good luck heaving a can against some psycho with an arsenal.
stupid.

[Savannahmann]

39. Better yet.

I remember a story of a kid who used a sling to fling a rock at a big dangerous guy and it totally killed him.

Hey, I know it's all like totally impractical and all that, but it's probably no dumber than chucking a can of green beans at the nutter.

[reddread]

42. call in the bow and arrow squad from PE

they should have preparedness training for emergencies.
the Minutekids.

[Ilsa]

54. And did anyone ever consider taking away bullets and guns?

Of course not. It's the crazy ones' right to have enough fire power to blow away a school full of children.

[Ilsa]

56. I guess they get target practice with their cans? nt

[Ilsa]

57. And the first time kids use the cans against each other

in a fight, the school will be sued for allowing them to have dangerous weapons on campus.

[ileus]

65. Don't forget to bring a Bicycle wheel also.

[Hoyt]

69. Works better than a trunk full of guns. How many do you carry around town?

[ileus]

70. 497