Revealed: Saudi Arabia's 'Great Wall' to keep out Isil

[AngryAmish]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/11344116/Revealed-Saudi-Arabias-Great-Wall-to-keep-out-Isil.html
Middle Eastern Kingdom building 600-mile wall and ditch along its border with Iraq in effort to insulate itself from the chaos engulfing its neighbours.

When a raiding party from Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant attacked a Saudi border post last week, it was no mere hit on a desert outpost.

The jihadists were launching an assault on the new, highest profile effort by Saudi Arabia to insulate itself from the chaos engulfing its neighbours.

The Saudis are building a 600-mile-long “Great Wall” - a combined fence and ditch - to separates the country from Iraq to the north."

Winter is Coming.

[annabanana]

1. It's their beast. They should not be surprised

when it turns on them.

[Fred Sanders]

2. It is not to keep ISIS out, it is to keep the population even more imprisoned.

Talk about your Hermit Kingdom, it is not North Korea.

[AngryAmish]

3. no. Just no.

House of Saud would not mind if most of the population left. Less trouble, less expense. And getting to that border sucks, one of the worst deserts anywhere. And north of that border are the shia tribes.

[JonLP24]

8. Which ISIS would have to get through to get to Saudi Arabia as well as that open desert

which I've seen and you're not lying.

I seriously doubt the rationale for the "great wall" unless the US is apply pressure on them because they constantly make them.

BTW - they are involved in human trafficking and sexual slavery so they do have an interest in keeping people inside. They have a morals police, talk about "less trouble".

[StevieM]

9. Well, they won't let the women go. In Saudi Arabia a woman is a piece of property.

Her ID card carries the picture of her husband, father or male guardian. And she cannot travel without his permission. If she is miserable there, she cannot get a divorce and leave the country. She cannot even abscond from the county without a divorce. And she cannot make a run for the border too easily, since she is not allowed to drive.

[JonLP24]

10. True

American women who have married Saudi nationals and are inside the kingdom along with their female children – some of whom have now reached adult age – are subjected to a situation in which another person or persons have complete control over their lives, with all rights and attributes of "ownership." They were forcibly abducted or kidnapped in clear violation of the laws of other countries and court orders issued by other countries. They were removed from their country to a country beyond the reach of law enforcement and court orders.

These women – which include my adult, American-born daughters – have been hidden away in family compounds for years, deprived of all the choices of basic living, including religion, choice of spouse or age of marriage. They have been denied freedom of movement, freedom of torture, equal rights of women relating to all issues of family rights, the right to education, the right to remedies. Many of them are subjected to wide abuse other than slavery – mental and physical torture, including rape. Their basic human rights in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and other instruments of international human rights law are being sacrificed.

They are kept captive with no hope of ever escaping. Some are told that they can leave, but their children must stay. They must choose between freedom and their children – a "Sophie's Choice" no mother should ever have to make. I have met women who have done just that, and others who hunger for the breath of freedom so badly that they are contemplating doing it – such a high price to pay.
http://web.archive.org/web/20071116093542/http:/www.patroush.com/children/contemporary_slavery_sa.htm

[StevieM]

11. This is horrifying. Thank you for sharing it. I had no idea it was this bad.

People need to be made aware of just how diabolical this society is.

[oberliner]

4. Why do you think this?

From where do you derive your understanding of Saudi Arabia?

[Fred Sanders]

5. Where do your derive your understanding of satire?

[oberliner]

6. Huh?

I'm just asking about Saudi Arabia. I don't know much about the country and would like to know where you came by your information.

[JonLP24]

7. I can give you a quick overview

An 18th century preacher was born in what is Najd, Saudi Arabia -- Muhammed ibn Abd al-Wahhab. To understand Saudi Arabia (and ISIS for that matter) is to understand him. He started the Wahabbi movement which is an orthodox, right wing & frankly off the wall sect of Sunni Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Abd_al-Wahhab

He formed a pact with Muhammad bin Saud who was a devoted follower

"You are the settlement's chief and wise man. I want you to grant me an oath that you will perform jihad (Struggle to spread Islam) against the unbelievers. In return you will be imam, leader of the Muslim community and I will be leader in religious matters."

He started a bloody campaign that spilled a lot of blood & beheadings to establish The First Saudi State which led to the Saudi Dynasty eventually led to Saudi Arabia in the early 1900s which led to the 'House of Saud' and eventually other Wahabbi kingdoms such as Kuwait, UAB, Qatar, and maybe others.

California Oil Company (later Chevron) found oil in Saudi Arabia in the 1930s which was turning point for the Wahabbi movement because of its partnership with the United States
http://fpif.org/us_oil_policy_in_the_middle_east/

In the 1950s and 60s within Saudi Arabia, the Wahhabi ulama maintained their hold on religious law courts, presided over the creation of Islamic universities, and a public school system which gave students "a heavy dose of religious instruction".[151] Outside of Saudi the Wahhabi ulama became "less combative" toward the rest of the Muslim world. In confronting the challenge of the West, Wahhabi doctrine "served well" for many Muslims as a "platform" and "gained converts beyond the peninsula."[151][152]

Here is a good documentary

Also you can read about CIA, Reagan, Osama bin laden, and Saudi Arabia to learn about Al-Qaeda who are Wahabbi which explains why the Saudi Arabia funded them & their mutual dislike of communism to explain why the US was involved to fight a proxy war against the USSR.

[oberliner]

12. Does the leadership keep their population imprisoned?

Would you say they are similar to N Korea in that regard?

[JonLP24]

13. Not to the same extent but they'll execute, whip you in public

for punishments ranging from murder to witchcraft, drug possession, and even bible possession.

Executions include beheading, stoning, & crucifixion all in the public square. They have a Hisbah (morals police) enforcing these crimes.

On edit - you could make a case that Saudi Arabia is the worst of the worst of human rights violators and it would be a strong one too.

[leftynyc]

14. Crucifixion?

They still crucify people? In public? For what (not that it would be acceptable in any case whatsoever, just curious)?

[JonLP24]

15. I'm not sure the range of offenses

This one is for a Shiite speaking out against the royal family

In another sermon that year, al-Nimr stated: “It is not permitted to use weapons and spread corruption in society.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/10/15/saudi_court_sentences_highprofile_shiite_cleric_to_death.html

[PeaceNikki]

16. Yup... though it's not the method of death, but to publicly display the beheaded body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Saudi_Arabia

Methods and scope[edit]

Saudi Arabia has a criminal justice system based on a hardline and literal form of Sharia law reflecting a particular state-sanctioned interpretation of Islam.

The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences[5] including murder, rape, false prophecy, blasphemy, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy,[6] adultery,[7] witchcraft and sorcery[8] and can be carried out by beheading with a sword,[9] or more rarely by firing squad, and sometimes by stoning.

The 345 reported executions between 2007 and 2010 were all carried out by public beheading.[10] The last reported execution for sorcery took place in August 2014.[11][12] There were no reports of stoning between 2007 and 2010,[10] but between 1981 and 1992 there were four cases of execution by stoning reported.[13]

Crucifixion of the beheaded body is sometimes ordered.[8] For example, in 2009, the Saudi Gazette reported that "An Abha court has sentenced the leader of an armed gang to death and three-day crucifixion (public displaying of the beheaded body) and six other gang members to beheading for their role in jewelry store robberies in Asir."[14] (This practice resembles gibbeting, in which the entire body is displayed).

In 2003, Muhammad Saad al-Beshi, whom the BBC described as "Saudi Arabia's leading executioner", gave a rare interview to Arab News.[6] He described his first execution in 1998: "The criminal was tied and blindfolded. With one stroke of the sword I severed his head. It rolled metres away...People are amazed how fast [the sword] can separate the head from the body."[6] He also said that before an execution he visits the victim's family to seek forgiveness for the criminal, which can lead to the criminal's life being spared.[6] Once an execution goes ahead, his only conversation with the prisoner is to tell him or her to recite the Muslim declaration of belief, the Shahada.[6] "When they get to the execution square, their strength drains away. Then I read the execution order, and at a signal I cut the prisoner's head off," he said.[6]

As of 2003, executions were not announced in advance and could take place any day of the week. As a consequence of this and their status as the "only form of public entertainment" in Saudi Arabia "apart from football matches", they often generate large, quickly gathering crowds. Also as of 2003, photography and video of the executions was forbidden.[4]

[leftynyc]

17. Well reading that made me

nauseous. And how are they different from isis? Especially this part:

The death penalty can be imposed for a wide range of offences including murder, rape, false prophecy, blasphemy, armed robbery, repeated drug use, apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery and can be carried out by beheading with a sword, or more rarely by firing squad, and sometimes by stoning.


Witchcraft and sorcery? The mind boggles.

[JonLP24]

18. They aren't

ISIS crucifies too. Has a Hisbah. Both them & the 'House of Saud' follow the Wahabbi sect of Sunni Islam

Prominent religious leader Sayed Mahdi Modarresi blasted Saudi Arabia in a blog post earlier this month, calling it “a country that belongs to the Stone Age rather than the 21st century” and attributing its extremist laws to the militant Salafi interpretation it adopts — and shares with the Islamic State group.

“Saudi Arabia is a country which has no constitution and no elections,” he wrote in the Huffington Post U.K. “Laws are enacted by royal decrees and ratified by a toothless parliament whose members are installed by the monarch. If this is how the Sunni citizens are treated, you can only imagine what the (Shiite) face on a daily basis. ”

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/10/15/saudi_court_sentences_highprofile_shiite_cleric_to_death.html

[leftynyc]

19. Lovely

Are we making (drilling, whatever) enough oil to tell these fuckers to get lost?

[JonLP24]

20. Pretty much

which is why Saudi Arabia refused to cut output and slashed their prices to defend their market share.

[leftynyc]

21. I wonder how a vote would go

in the US. Would people pay more for their gas if it meant telling OPEC to go fuck themselves?

[JonLP24]

22. I would (though I ride public transportation)

but the refusing to cut output part is what other OPEC countries didn't want to do putting stress on their economies that depend on production. Saudi Arabia has the oil & money to survive a price war most of the other countries don't.

[leftynyc]

24. I also only rely on public transport

but I realize that's very easy in NY. Commuter trains, subways, buses, cabs and WALKING. How big a customer is the US to OPEC? Would losing us effect anything at all? I'm woefully ignorant on the politics of oil other than I'm sick of having to consider Saudi Arabia a fucking ally.

[JonLP24]

27. The latest shows 21% comes from Saudi Arabia, 42% from Canada

are top 2 leading importers

Venezuela & Mexico are 3rd & 4th. That is for net imports. Gross imports Saudi makes up a smaller share 13%

This is from 2013, I imagine the numbers are much smaller for Saudi Arabia (data before the huge price falls)
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

[leftynyc]

28. Interesting

I sure wouldn't mind getting all or most of our oil from Canada and then just keeping the stuff we're currently exporting (why on earth are we importing AND exporting oil? Like I said, woefully ignorant of oil politics).

[ChosenUnWisely]

23. How are they different from isis? Answer OIL!

Lets say ISIS gets rid of the House of Saud and they become the new thugs in charge, if they pay ball and lets us have the oil, no problem, they can pretty much do what they want. However if they don't play ball then in the interest of 'national security' or some other BS we will conduct a regime change and put in place one that will keep the oil flowing.

People tend to forget if it were not for oil the USA and most of the world too, would not give a shit about any county in the Middle East.

[leftynyc]

25. Here's what I don't understand

According to this article, we export more than we import so my question is do we need to import at all? I would think that between the US and Canada, we could cut ourselves off from OPEC.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-29/u-s-was-net-oil-product-exporter-in-2011.html

[ChosenUnWisely]

29. US Oil Independence is total BS follow the oil money all over the world and who controls it

During the Carter years our dependence on ME oil was at its lowest in comes Reagan and US dependence increased. If this country was really interested in oil independence, it would have happened long ago.
Nations, Governments, Corporations, Mega Banks all are inter linked to oil and every aspect of it from the ground to your car or house. Big money to be made in it legally or illegally in oil.

Why if the US was off ME oil we would not need such a big military to send to the ME to protect the oil.

[leftynyc]

30. Ahhhhh

Now it makes sense (sick sense but sense). I've been wondering for a long time why we still weren't independent. I should have realized it was because we didn't want to be.

[leveymg]

26. The Great Wall of Money, just like they paid off bin Laden

Good work, holy warriors - here's another billion. See you again in three months. Now, go back to Syria and Europe, and kill some more Infidels.