About that "context" (re: Charlie Hebdo)

[markpkessinger]

In response to a couple of OP's of mine which have apparently been insufficiently uncritical of the "Je suis Charlie" campaign, I have been accused of being ignorant of, failing to "educate" myself about, or too lazy to investigate links to articles the provide the "context" for the Charlie Hebdo cartoons (along with being accused of purporting to be an expert on France and of being part of the same kind of thinking that underlay the absurd "freedom fries" nonsense of some years back). For the record, yes, I have read those links, and have considered what is in them. But the question of whether that context stands as justification for the nature of the cartoons is, in the end, a subjective determination, about which reasonable people can and will disagree. I have no problem with anyone who wishes to express disagreement. But I call foul on the repeated rude, snide insults and other attempts to bully those of us on DU who hold a different view of the response to the Charlie Hebdo attacks into acquiescence to a single read of the events in France.

[Luminous Animal]

1. I think you might like this written in 2013 by a former Charlie Hebdo employee.

http://posthypnotic.randomstatic.net/charliehebdo/Charlie_Hebdo_article%2011.htm

I originally posted this in 'Good Reads"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016111333

[markpkessinger]

3. Thanks!

Yes, I did appreciate that!

[Wella]

4. There should be no snide remarks or name calling over something so important

For your perusal:

[markpkessinger]

6. I was answering more than just you and was addressing more than one thread n/t

[uppityperson]

8. my apologies for taking it personally. I meant only to share something I find enlightening. nt

[LostOne4Ever]

7. Reality and Perception

[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','Infindel B',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Whether or not they are racist or homophobic or ect. depend upon the intent and purpose of the artist/magazine.

Whether the context justifies you changing your opinion of them, depends solely upon your own judgement and evaluation. To which, you are correct in calling it subjective.

The nature of something, and how it is perceived can be very different things.

Unless we can go back in time and read the minds of the victims, we can never truly know their intent; and so are left with dueling opinions.

But then, it is more complicated than that. The people we are discussing were all victims of a mass murder. To see victims of such a tragedy vilified does not go down well with many; especially if one feels that such criticism is unfair or wrong.

What seems as mere disagreement to you, can seem like you are hand waving away evidence of the innocence of victims to others...which can easily rub people the wrong way. [/font]

[ND-Dem]

9. we're not supposed to care if things rub people the wrong way. that's what the free speech

absolutists keep telling us, so why should we give a flying fig about any of that?

again, hypocrisy.

[LostOne4Ever]

11. Then you misunderstand what is meant by free speech (nt)

[ND-Dem]

12. not according to many posters here

[LostOne4Ever]

13. I am not them (nt)

[KittyWampus]

10. The context that is relevant is that moderate muslims considered it offensive and racist.

[DonCoquixote]

14. I cna understand attacking Muhammad

is a broad brush on all Muslims, even the moderate ones that looked at the TV and went "besmillah" or "WTF?"

However, if you can prevent people from critizing you by thretanting to kill themn, you become a tyranny, no less than the KKK that spoke of defending "Christian values" while lynching people.

Being offended does not give you an excuse to kill people, Full Stop. If we do not enforce a tolerance, and REWARD VIOLENCE, then anyone who wants to enforce their will will just shoot shoot and shoot some more.

[Fumesucker]

15. All of them?

How about liberal Muslim, what do they think?

[markpkessinger]

16. I work with someone who might be called a "liberal Muslim" . . .

. . . She was born in Albania, and was brought to the U.S. as a baby. She grew up in Buffalo. She was as appalled by the attacks as everyone else. But she also gets really tired of being expected to answer for every act by Muslim extremists around the world.

[Fumesucker]

17. I can definitely sympathize with that

On the other hand as someone who walked away from religion a long time ago I also wonder why people continue to personalize the fight when at least in the West you can walk away from the religion and no longer bear the burden.

Then they can truly go: Muslim violence? Has nothing to do with me, I'm an atheist.

It's true that leaving religion has a price, but it also carries a lot of benefits.