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wyldwolf

(43,868 posts)
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:17 AM Jan 2015

CBS Poll: 85% of Democrats approve of a Clinton candidacy

Democrats are similarly concerned with ideological purity: 63 percent say it's more important to have a nominee who agrees with them, while 35 percent say it's more important to pick a winner.

Most of the popular anticipation is coalescing around former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Eighty-five percent of Democrats would like Clinton to dive in, while 11 percent want her to stay out.

Her closest competitor, Vice President Joe Biden, is sought by only 40 percent of Democrats. Thirty-eight percent want Biden to stay on the sidelines.

Twenty-three percent say Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a darling of liberal activists, should launch a bid, but 20 percent disagree.

Beyond those three, Democrats' excitement about their potential field is lacking. Only 16 percent want New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo to run, while 18 percent disagree. Twelve percent would like to see Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, to run, while 16 percent want Sanders to keep his day job. Three percent want former Gov. Martin O'Malley, D-Maryland, to run, but 13 percent don't. And 6 percent of voters want former Sen. Jim Webb, D-Virginia, to run, but 14 percent disagree.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-want-mitt-romney-jeb-bush-to-run-for-president-in-2016/

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CBS Poll: 85% of Democrats approve of a Clinton candidacy (Original Post) wyldwolf Jan 2015 OP
Where is LoZo when you need him? hobbit709 Jan 2015 #1
It looks like he was part of the overwhelming majority Renew Deal Jan 2015 #47
This "article" is based on a Carville-Greenberg push poll. leveymg Jan 2015 #106
That's the wrong poll Renew Deal Jan 2015 #136
That was the poll posted by hrmjustin 4 minutes before yours. leveymg Jan 2015 #146
Just in case you haven't seen Hillary's Unfavorable ratings, they're at an 8 year high. leveymg Jan 2015 #159
Yeah, all the Rethugs now dislike or hate her. So what? nt pnwmom Jan 2015 #161
That's all voters, including us. leveymg Jan 2015 #165
That negative is almost all from the Rethugs. DUers against Hillary comprise a small fraction pnwmom Jan 2015 #166
Her negatives are widespread, long-rooted, and growing. leveymg Jan 2015 #174
This is what happens in every election. pnwmom Jan 2015 #176
Right. At this point in the '08 cycle, HRC's Q scores were tracking this same way. leveymg Jan 2015 #191
She could be vulnerable to a Democratic challenge and if she is, so be it. pnwmom Jan 2015 #195
She won't be able to shake the perception that she's going to lead us to war. leveymg Jan 2015 #201
She doesn't need to shake anything. 85% of Democrats are happy with her as is. nt stevenleser Jan 2015 #224
I'd say about 45 percent. Otherwise, Hillary would be President right now instead of Barrack. leveymg Jan 2015 #225
No, the poll is clear, you can't spin it. nt stevenleser Jan 2015 #226
This poll is already spinning. eom leveymg Jan 2015 #227
It's so early.. I'm going to treasure these last two years of Obama being President. It will be Cha Jan 2015 #2
So will I, Cha. So will millions upon millions of Americans. I wish President Obama could run for a BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #155
Yes, I am definitely not alone on this, BlueCali! Here's to the Cha Jan 2015 #204
Well said, Cha! calimary Jan 2015 #185
You said it well yourself, calimary.. mahalo! Cha Jan 2015 #207
Oh well looks like my 35+ yeras of being a memebr of the Democratic Party will be ending soon ChosenUnWisely Jan 2015 #3
don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. wyldwolf Jan 2015 #4
It won't, enjoy your new corporate master! ChosenUnWisely Jan 2015 #5
I will. See ya! wyldwolf Jan 2015 #6
That is seemingly certain. TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #10
You'll not get any sympathy from this thread's OPer… They meant DLC Democrats... MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #122
Agreed. This is fun thread for rubbing DLC's noses into inconvenient truths re HRC. Divernan Jan 2015 #128
I'm not the least inconvenienced by that summation of HRC... MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #135
Why vote Republican, when you can vote 3rd way? Katashi_itto Jan 2015 #24
Wow. demwing Jan 2015 #48
how should one react to a threat to threat to leave the party? wyldwolf Jan 2015 #76
How about "No Reaction"? demwing Jan 2015 #173
how about YOU react the way you will, and I'll do the same wyldwolf Jan 2015 #177
You asked demwing Jan 2015 #208
because I won't defer to your methods means I'm not interested? wyldwolf Jan 2015 #210
You know, that little "truth" icon? MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #123
Right. So what part of "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" demwing Jan 2015 #175
What a silly argument… MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #203
Nonsense. You're just trying to justify rudeness demwing Jan 2015 #206
Okay…. MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #211
You're confused again demwing Jan 2015 #219
Excuse me... MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #232
Apparently, I have completely misunderstood your remark demwing Jan 2015 #233
Not a problem, demwing... MrMickeysMom Jan 2015 #234
Are you saying then that you will join the republican party? joshdawg Jan 2015 #7
Does it occur to you that not being a member of A doesn't automatically enroll you in B? hobbit709 Jan 2015 #9
Clever response. Who are the possibilites on the horizon for Laura PourMeADrink Jan 2015 #13
I switched to Unaffiliated earlier this month when I was at the DMV. Autumn Jan 2015 #75
Of course you did. Thanks for being honest about it. eom BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #153
We are in a world with binary thinking. zeemike Jan 2015 #41
Nope. Because we have a two-party, system like it or not. So leaving A gives by default BlueCaliDem Jan 2015 #154
Yeah sure right, that is what I am going to do join the GOP in protest! ChosenUnWisely Jan 2015 #11
It was a silly question, wasn't it? truebluegreen Jan 2015 #60
Okay, I get your point. No problem. joshdawg Jan 2015 #73
Not being a sheep I Always ...... ChosenUnWisely Jan 2015 #85
Your so-called "principle" can do great harm to others frazzled Jan 2015 #151
You have that backwards. jeff47 Jan 2015 #90
I would add one more: CrispyQ Jan 2015 #98
Thread winner! RiverLover Jan 2015 #104
You're absolutely correct! joshdawg Jan 2015 #111
+1000-This thread's great review ofHRC's faults/shortcomings/GOP connections Divernan Jan 2015 #121
+1. Nt newfie11 Jan 2015 #16
Wisely spoken og1 Jan 2015 #22
+1000 Katashi_itto Jan 2015 #25
Join the club. Haven't been a member for about 4 years. Dawgs Jan 2015 #42
Don't actually agree, but would vote for a 3rd party cand. if s/he is progressive. Four years of drynberg Jan 2015 #64
Don't forget this is a CBS poll. raindaddy Jan 2015 #67
Warren and Sanders were in the poll Renew Deal Jan 2015 #144
Wouldn't a chllenge from the left be healthy for the country? raindaddy Jan 2015 #164
What, specifically, has HRC as your anti-Democratic bogey person? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #81
Hillary's corporate legacy at State Dept AtomicKitten Jan 2015 #215
Do you think it is NOT a part of the SoS' job ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #216
I think I was supplying information AtomicKitten Jan 2015 #217
Okay.n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #220
Funny that Elizabeth Warren won't be joining you, isn't it? brooklynite Jan 2015 #91
I hope you don't leave the party. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #94
K, Bye. n/t Lil Missy Jan 2015 #127
You won't be alone. L0oniX Jan 2015 #157
awwww.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #194
Huh, imagine that! Indydem Jan 2015 #8
How so? What good jobs, ability to pay for your own health care, and what ability to own a home and TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #12
Simply put: a better economy. Indydem Jan 2015 #14
Bottom line, Bill Clinton was 10x the president than Barack Obama. DonCoquixote Jan 2015 #15
Bill and Hillary ARE rich people now. LuvNewcastle Jan 2015 #19
Chelsea's hubby's the hedge fund trading son of 2 failed grifter/politicians. Divernan Jan 2015 #55
Fortunately she is a totally lousy candidate, & the more people hear her the less they like her peacebird Jan 2015 #61
What's ironic is the things she got crucified for on the tour were for saying things DUers like. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #70
except for the fact that 85% of REAL Democrats like seem to like her... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #197
Guilt by association? What the HELL does that have to do w/ Hillary?!? 66 dmhlt Jan 2015 #72
HRC plays the grandmother card; I'll play the in-laws card. Divernan Jan 2015 #74
So the past history of the father-in-law of her daughter is now Hillary's responsibility? BS!!! 66 dmhlt Jan 2015 #79
Of course dsc Jan 2015 #82
HRC's doing her best to hide Ed; not in wedding or new grandchild pictures. Divernan Jan 2015 #83
Anyone the LEAST bit influenced by that would NOT vote for HRC anyway. Give it up! 66 dmhlt Jan 2015 #221
It was also Bill Clinton who said on National TV several times that HIS taxes should be raised... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #196
"Bottom line, Bill Clinton was BumRushDaShow Jan 2015 #23
"1/10th/10x the president Obama is" = fixed. "The president OF Obama" just adds another kind of ND-Dem Jan 2015 #183
Too simply put to answer the questions. What is it you think she is going to do to create a better TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #229
As Hillary is one of the architects of TPP I just want to say. Thank you Hillary. Katashi_itto Jan 2015 #26
Link to the Hillary TPP claim? Renew Deal Jan 2015 #50
You are aware of her previous job, right? (nt) jeff47 Jan 2015 #88
Her "Global Initiatives" Foundation held a symposium ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #92
Here's a link~ RiverLover Jan 2015 #100
HRC's Business LegacyatState Dept&leading part in drafting TPP Divernan Jan 2015 #126
it is very instructive how much perception management HRC requires reddread Jan 2015 #162
Thanks Divernan, for taking the time to quote the article. RiverLover Jan 2015 #169
"May well hold the keys" is a pretty weak hypothesis. Orsino Jan 2015 #36
Well her husband.... sendero Jan 2015 #62
Yep. Amen. +1 nt snappyturtle Jan 2015 #86
Proof please....this War Mongering meme has GOT to fucking stop on DU.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #198
Jeb Bush billhicks76 Jan 2015 #78
Spot on. riversedge Jan 2015 #138
A poll of 1000 people who have listed phone numbers isn't representative of Americans. nt RiverLover Jan 2015 #17
^ What people who don't like poll results usually say wyldwolf Jan 2015 #20
Of the 1000 ppl polled, how many called themselves Democrats? It doesn't say. RiverLover Jan 2015 #31
But it is representative of older folks. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jan 2015 #37
Yeah you keep clinging to that....whatever gets you through the night I suppose... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #199
Another pointless CBS poll blackspade Jan 2015 #18
+1 ChosenUnWisely Jan 2015 #21
"The M$M continues to set the narrative for low information voters. " DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #53
I have a better idea: truebluegreen Jan 2015 #63
So they want her in the primaries. LuvNewcastle Jan 2015 #27
Things should get interesting around here come primary season oberliner Jan 2015 #28
85% of Democrats..... BrainDrain Jan 2015 #29
I totally agree. LuvNewcastle Jan 2015 #33
You nailed her lying ass first try!!! easychoice Jan 2015 #40
HRC put a 12 year old rape victim through hell, later laughed about the case. Divernan Jan 2015 #71
Thanks,I was working from old memory.Too lazy to look it up. easychoice Jan 2015 #77
Interesting. Politifact's and Media Matter's investigations differ from your "research." wyldwolf Jan 2015 #96
Hah! Your Politifact link supports my statements. Divernan Jan 2015 #105
they don't support your conclusion. But where is your 2008 'research?' wyldwolf Jan 2015 #107
Here ya go! Read it and weep! Divernan Jan 2015 #119
That's dated 2014. You said your research was in 2008 wyldwolf Jan 2015 #129
dude...seriously.. BrainDrain Jan 2015 #147
Dude, seriously. Someone claimed to have all this research from 2008 wyldwolf Jan 2015 #152
The Hillary Clinton/Rapist Tapes- from Univ. of Arkansas archives Divernan Jan 2015 #222
You've gone from "I researched this in 2008" to "I recall learning about this in 2008" wyldwolf Jan 2015 #228
One learns from doing research, my dear! Divernan Jan 2015 #230
If you call 'research' parotting a conservative source from last year... then wyldwolf Jan 2015 #231
I have a better chance of dating Miss Universe than the Pugs have of beating Hillary The Great./NT DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #57
I dunno. Beauty Queens don't have the standards they used to have. wyldwolf Jan 2015 #109
Fuck Ron Paul. Look forward to your departure in 2016. nt geek tragedy Jan 2015 #143
and you know this how? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #200
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #209
HRC is gonna kick some GOP ass! nt arely staircase Jan 2015 #30
That would be a welcome change from kissing Wall Street/Koch ass. Divernan Jan 2015 #120
haters gonna hate nt arely staircase Jan 2015 #212
These are great numbers for Hillary. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #32
She's not my first choice (see photo), but I'd vote for her in the general. Vinca Jan 2015 #34
Hillary Clinton as madam president will make corporations bathe in gold and sleep well in nights. TRoN33 Jan 2015 #35
You say those things like they are bad things! LondonReign2 Jan 2015 #160
The fact that people respond to this with... vi5 Jan 2015 #38
+1 MissDeeds Jan 2015 #44
63% want "ideological purity"; they won't vote for a DINO-1%-Wall Street BFF Divernan Jan 2015 #39
Your post makes no sense Renew Deal Jan 2015 #58
I kindly suggest you take a class in statistics. Divernan Jan 2015 #59
Perhaps you can explain it to us since you've had a class in statistics. wyldwolf Jan 2015 #103
I've had graduate level classes in statistics - you'll just have to trust me on this. Divernan Jan 2015 #112
So? wyldwolf Jan 2015 #131
No surprise Stephen Retired Jan 2015 #43
That's nice. Iggo Jan 2015 #45
She is more more liberal than I thought. pampango Jan 2015 #46
These are from 2002-2006, not meaningful, and if you really look at the numbers, RiverLover Jan 2015 #51
Discounting the significance of actual votes is a personal decision. You are welcome to it. pampango Jan 2015 #52
Information I like = meaningful Renew Deal Jan 2015 #65
I proudly voted for her 5 times and hope to do it again. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #54
She was elected twice as a Senator from New York Manny Man Jan 2015 #141
A primary and general in each Senate election MineralMan Jan 2015 #149
2 primaries, 2 generals, and a presidential primary. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #150
she also voted not to confirm Alito and Roberts OKNancy Jan 2015 #68
85% approve of her candidacy doesn't mean NewJeffCT Jan 2015 #49
Elections are often won by only a few percent. We may just have a GOP President in 2016. leveymg Jan 2015 #56
I expect Clinton would duplicate what Coakley did in MA. jeff47 Jan 2015 #93
The comparison is unfair to Coakley. The difference is the intensity of the negatives against HRC leveymg Jan 2015 #97
Do you have any evidence to support your assertion... DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2015 #171
Damned shame we no longer have the unrec feature. Enthusiast Jan 2015 #66
I agree so I "un-rec'd" an OP this morning anyway. Made me feel better. nt snappyturtle Jan 2015 #87
Your post reminds me of something Colbert one said Renew Deal Jan 2015 #145
All this means is that Dems want an open primary, and that Hillary is the front runner. bluedigger Jan 2015 #69
And 100% of Wall Street approves of Hillary too. n/t benz380 Jan 2015 #80
She's a perfect candidate - for the GOP Divernan Jan 2015 #84
Proud to be a 15%er! City Lights Jan 2015 #89
All this poll says to me is that this early out, MoonchildCA Jan 2015 #95
I approve of Clinton's candidacy. i aprove of Webb's candidacy. Agnosticsherbet Jan 2015 #99
Democrats want another liberal in the WH -- that's a good thing. NYC Liberal Jan 2015 #101
I sometimes wonder if the anti-Hillary people might not be happier at FREE REPUBLIC.... brooklynite Jan 2015 #130
I'm pretty sure FREE REPUBLIC isn't into FDR like we are~ RiverLover Jan 2015 #140
An I wonder if the pro-Hillary people might not be happier at THIRD WAY.org LondonReign2 Jan 2015 #163
Gee, ELIZABETH WARREN, HOWARD DEAN, and BARNEY FRANK are Third Way members? brooklynite Jan 2015 #168
I admire your relentless effort to push the Democratic party to the right LondonReign2 Jan 2015 #172
I admire your relentless effort to deny reality... brooklynite Jan 2015 #178
Keep up the Third Way work LondonReign2 Jan 2015 #181
You'll have to do better than snippy insults... brooklynite Jan 2015 #188
Right.... RiverLover Jan 2015 #189
The unstoppable train. If only she could cut that smelly baggage car loose. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #102
The unstoppable train ...just like in the movie Snowpiercer. L0oniX Jan 2015 #158
Once again proving how insular DU really is... SidDithers Jan 2015 #108
I've never met a single person in my "real" life who likes Hillary Clinton. RiverLover Jan 2015 #110
Then you need to get out more...nt SidDithers Jan 2015 #113
I have met plenty. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #116
No, I don't suppose you have. nt Bobbie Jo Jan 2015 #118
The few I've met have easily been convinced to change their minds. Divernan Jan 2015 #134
I have Renew Deal Jan 2015 #137
I've met a lot of Elizabeth Warren supporters who support Hillary Clinton... brooklynite Jan 2015 #142
Ouch. zappaman Jan 2015 #170
Signing a letter to get along isn't "supporting" RiverLover Jan 2015 #180
"She'd be great" brooklynite Jan 2015 #184
Liz never said that about Hillary. nt RiverLover Jan 2015 #187
You're absolutely right...the correct word was "terrific" brooklynite Jan 2015 #190
"Hillary is terrific" when trying to dodge endorsing is not endorsing. nt RiverLover Jan 2015 #192
This "new English" is really confusing me... brooklynite Jan 2015 #213
But she certainly made clear she is not running. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #186
For discussion, let's stipulate that it's not 85%... brooklynite Jan 2015 #114
It looks like the party is ready despite what some here say. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #115
Just like America was "ready" to invade Iraq in 2003. Thank you Hillary - leveymg Jan 2015 #124
She was wrong on that but I voted for Kerry so I can vote for Hillary. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #125
What would it take to disqualify her, then, if not her influential Iraq War vote? leveymg Jan 2015 #133
I think she understands the country is war weary. hrmjustin Jan 2015 #148
Yeah, Canada offers a much better representation of US public sentiment, I'm sure. /nt Marr Jan 2015 #132
... SidDithers Jan 2015 #139
Highway to Hill? JEB Jan 2015 #117
$$$ L0oniX Jan 2015 #156
Nobody asked me. tabasco Jan 2015 #167
The other 15% are all here telling us how nobody wants her... LOL! n/t Adrahil Jan 2015 #179
Hilary Clinton: unfavorable ratings converge with favorable ratings in January ND-Dem Jan 2015 #182
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2015 #193
Between name recognition, and the fact that nobody is currently running, this poll seems useless n/t arcane1 Jan 2015 #202
I "approve if a Clinton candidacy" AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #205
LOL. Sure. nt silvershadow Jan 2015 #214
If the Democratic Party nominates H. Clinton, they will have sold their souls to the devil (Oligarch rhett o rick Jan 2015 #218
Speaking of selling 1's soul, watch HRC laugh about getting a guillty rapist off. Divernan Jan 2015 #223

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
106. This "article" is based on a Carville-Greenberg push poll.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:02 PM
Jan 2015

The poll that is referenced doesn't even mention HRC's negatives among Democrats. Don't take my word for it. Read the Democracy Corps (Carville-Greenberg consulting) poll linked here: http://www.politicususa.com/2015/01/18/poll-hillary-clinton-comfortably-leads-mitt-romney-crushes-jeb-bush.html

Renew Deal

(81,866 posts)
136. That's the wrong poll
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:01 PM
Jan 2015

This is a CBS poll

http://www.scribd.com/doc/252989106/CBS-News-Poll-Campaign-2016-1-18-15

That said, the wording used in the CBS poll cannot be accurately described as a push poll:

"Q101.intro. I’m going to read you a list of names. For each please tell me if you would like to see them run for president of the United States in 2016 or not or whether you don’t know enough about that person to say:"

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
146. That was the poll posted by hrmjustin 4 minutes before yours.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:43 PM
Jan 2015

My bad. Would like to see a poll that captures the intensity of likes and dislikes about each candidate. A Q-score. I believe that would be more significant to the outcome of the general election than one that asks whether the respondent wants to see Clinton, Biden, Cuomo, etc. run.

If asked the same question, I might respond that I'd like to see Hillary run, as the rest of the present field just does not appear viable at this time. That assessment might change over time.

Have you seen a Q-score for Hillary?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
159. Just in case you haven't seen Hillary's Unfavorable ratings, they're at an 8 year high.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jan 2015

According to tracking numbers, as many people polled now view her unfavorably as favorably. 46% to 46% on 1/10/15. It seems the closer we get to her announcement, the less she is liked.

Here's the track based upon an aggregation of a number of polls: http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

She isn't inevitable.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
165. That's all voters, including us.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:45 PM
Jan 2015

Democrats included. The fact that her negatives keep going up and her positives down should make one pause before calling her inevitable, or even the best candidate.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
166. That negative is almost all from the Rethugs. DUers against Hillary comprise a small fraction
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 03:25 PM
Jan 2015

of any poll.

Negatives are always higher in well known candidates. The advantage of Hillary is that most people have already made up their minds about her -- we already know that the number who dislike her is a minority.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
174. Her negatives are widespread, long-rooted, and growing.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 04:29 PM
Jan 2015

take a look at the three graphs on that page -- http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating#!selectedpoll=21576 -- one showing favorable/unfavorables for HRC over a five year period and two others for the Democratic and Republican parties, at the bottom of the same page. Click each for a full view

We see the trend lines for HRC converging with rising unfavorables and falling favorables since the Nov 14 election, the one for the Democratic Party as a brand does not show such a dramatic change. As it becomes clearer that she will likely be the candidate, voters polled (Democrats and Republicans) clearly like her less and less.

Consider that fact. It shouldn't be ignored, even by her supporters.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
176. This is what happens in every election.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 04:36 PM
Jan 2015

The less well known have fewer negatives -- till media exposure drives them up, too. Hillary's are about what I'd expect based on her very high profile ever since she was First Lady.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
191. Right. At this point in the '08 cycle, HRC's Q scores were tracking this same way.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 05:39 PM
Jan 2015
On May 4, 2007, a Gallup Poll report showed that since the beginning of the year, her favorable-unfavorable ratio had declined from 58% favorable, 40% unfavorable to 45% favorable, 52% unfavorable.(18) Wiki.


The fact that Hillary is saddled with high unfavorables was observed by no less than candidate Obama. In December 2007, he observed about the "inevitability" argument for Clinton, and that it isn't really such an advantage: "This argument is being pushed, by the way, by a candidate who starts off with 47 percent disapproval ratings," he said to laughs. "You know so, I'm not going to mention names, but I mean the notion that my ability or electability argument is being made by someone who starts off with almost half the country not being willing to vote for" — he paused, to more laughs — "them doesn't make much sense." See, http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/GJNEWS_01/825658630

The closer she comes to being the inevitable candidate, the less voters (Democrats as well as Repubs) seem to like her. She didn't end up being the candidate in 2008 for largely this reason. She's vulnerable again to a challenge for the nomination if a plausible contender were to emerge, and we should be concerned that the same principle would extend to the general election, particularly if the GOP candidate was able to (re)frame himself as a competent technocrat, rather than a Right-wing firebreather.

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
195. She could be vulnerable to a Democratic challenge and if she is, so be it.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:07 PM
Jan 2015

But if she is the nominee and we get behind her -- as her supporters got behind Obama -- there is no reason to think she can't win the general. The Rethug candidates, once they are known, will also have strong negatives.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
201. She won't be able to shake the perception that she's going to lead us to war.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:18 PM
Jan 2015

On domestic policy, there's little to quarrel with her, except that she is a mainstream Wall Street centrist on financial market regulation, trade, and economic fairness.

But, on foreign policy, her track record is with the neocons, and that scares the crap out of many of us, so much so that there is a real reluctance to do anything that will put her into power. It's going to be a difficult election choosing among known or perceived evils for many on the Democratic Left.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
225. I'd say about 45 percent. Otherwise, Hillary would be President right now instead of Barrack.
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 10:51 AM
Jan 2015

It's all in the questions you ask, and how the scores are tabulated. Polls that measure intensity of like-dislike -- Q scores -- are most meaningful, in my opinion. Hillary has always had extraordinarily high negatives, particularly as she gets closer to elections.

If anything, her negatives are higher now than they were at this point in the '08 cycle. Known historical outcomes and variations in statistical methods shouldn't be ignored - even if you support her.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
227. This poll is already spinning. eom
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 10:55 AM
Jan 2015

I don't want to run up the threadcount any more on this OP. The title and message are fundamentally misleading - sure, 85% approve of an open nomination process (that includes HRC), but that's not the same thing as supporting her as a candidate.

Acknowledge that, and we're on the same page. Otherwise, you're just another "Hillary is inevitable" flack.

Cha

(297,405 posts)
2. It's so early.. I'm going to treasure these last two years of Obama being President. It will be
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:21 AM
Jan 2015

sooo interesting to see where we are a year from now.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
155. So will I, Cha. So will millions upon millions of Americans. I wish President Obama could run for a
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:10 PM
Jan 2015

third and fourth term. This country needs him. But I'm certain he'll be happy to leave the White House in 2017. The disrespect he and his family have had to endure must be difficult for him.

Cha

(297,405 posts)
204. Yes, I am definitely not alone on this, BlueCali! Here's to the
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:02 PM
Jan 2015

last two years of the Obama Presidency~ May We(Yes We Can) all have Good Fortune for our Country and the Planet. It is a Planetary thing, too.

calimary

(81,367 posts)
185. Well said, Cha!
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 05:16 PM
Jan 2015

He's become - with apologies to Lewis Carroll and grammar lovers everywhere - "interestinger and interestinger."

Who'd have thought he'd have the wind at his back after that last election? He seems able to turn the tables on very nearly everyone's expectations.

My disappointments about him are FAR outweighed by my satisfactions with him. And they always have been.

And I would ask the question again - how does the alternative work out for ya? President mccain (and even more horrifying - Vice President palin) or President romney?

I will always take the "good" over the "perfect," even when I like the "perfect" better. Because I've always found that "perfect" is nearly unattainable. And your idea of "perfect" very seldom satisfies the next guy's idea of "perfect."

Cha

(297,405 posts)
207. You said it well yourself, calimary.. mahalo!
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:07 PM
Jan 2015

To the last two years of the Obama Presidency.. may it work out well for all of us on Planet Earth!

 

ChosenUnWisely

(588 posts)
3. Oh well looks like my 35+ yeras of being a memebr of the Democratic Party will be ending soon
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:30 AM
Jan 2015

if the majority of the party wants Hillary, then the majority of the party will no longer reflect my values and I will end my relationship with the new corporate democratic party.

Things Change.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
122. You'll not get any sympathy from this thread's OPer… They meant DLC Democrats...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:42 PM
Jan 2015

You know… the kind without long term memory and allegiance to unfettered corporate states…

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
135. I'm not the least inconvenienced by that summation of HRC...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:00 PM
Jan 2015

… nor, do I think there's anything FUNNY about that measurable fact. I think it's a damned shame.

wyldwolf

(43,868 posts)
210. because I won't defer to your methods means I'm not interested?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:19 PM
Jan 2015

On the contrary, I find it fascinating you think politeness or silence is the way to respond to a whiner threatening to leave the party if he can't have his way.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
175. Right. So what part of "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out"
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 04:32 PM
Jan 2015

is Truth?

I don't think you understand what "Truth" means.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
203. What a silly argument…
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:22 PM
Jan 2015

… and what a silly comment to make when another person's post asks to examine what you might think is true..



 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
206. Nonsense. You're just trying to justify rudeness
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:05 PM
Jan 2015

You haven't addressed any truths, or challenged any perceptions.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
219. You're confused again
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 07:35 AM
Jan 2015

the way I feel has nothing to do with you - good or bad--but you don't really care, so why pretend?

Really, why the pretense?

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
232. Excuse me...
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 02:35 PM
Jan 2015

Were you trying to hiss at me for commenting that the truth hurts? And,when I responded, "Okay, feel better?", thinking you'd be appeased, which must have been pretending on my part, I guess I should have taken the bait and continued to be as rude as you...

But, since you think I "don't really care", I will admit that couldn't agree MORE with the above post that if the majority of the party wants Hillary, then the majority of the party will no longer reflect my values and I will end my relationship with the new corporate democratic party.

That may not be YOUR credo, but it certainly represents others in this thread. Let it go at that, or better yet, put me on "ignore".

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
233. Apparently, I have completely misunderstood your remark
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 05:26 PM
Jan 2015

and therefore, I apologize for mine. I'm sorry.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
234. Not a problem, demwing...
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 07:34 PM
Jan 2015

You and I have something in common, and we're both stand-up about it!

Best, MMM

joshdawg

(2,651 posts)
7. Are you saying then that you will join the republican party?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:47 AM
Jan 2015

They are a lot more corporate than the Dems.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
75. I switched to Unaffiliated earlier this month when I was at the DMV.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:23 AM
Jan 2015

Of course there are no viable alternatives yet.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
41. We are in a world with binary thinking.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:37 AM
Jan 2015

There can be only two choices and you are ether one or the other...with us or against us...you love or you hate.
Yep, it has been so successful for the right the left is now using it.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
154. Nope. Because we have a two-party, system like it or not. So leaving A gives by default
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:06 PM
Jan 2015

your vote to B. Remember, Republicans ALWAYS vote no matter what (see midterm 2014 as proof) even if they hate the Republican who's been chosen by the majority because they hate Democrats more.

joshdawg

(2,651 posts)
73. Okay, I get your point. No problem.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:18 AM
Jan 2015

Here is where I was going with what I said:
If you don't vote, republicans win.
If you vote third party, republicans win.
If you vote republican, the country loses
So, if you don't vote Democratic or don't vote at all, republicans win.
Are you still adamant about leaving the Democratic Party?

 

ChosenUnWisely

(588 posts)
85. Not being a sheep I Always ......
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:43 AM
Jan 2015

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection
that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

My vote, my life, my choice....

Besides why would I want to continue a relationship with an organization that no longer reflects my values.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
151. Your so-called "principle" can do great harm to others
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:53 PM
Jan 2015

in the real world.

Just by staying home from the polls, or voting for a "principled" but non-viable candidate, you can take away their heating assistance or Social Security check. You can prevent them from getting an education or staying in the country they were born in. You can increase the possibility that the bridge near their house may cave in, or that mental health assistance will be taken away.

Principles, as they say, have consequences: and not always the ones you expect.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
90. You have that backwards.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:26 AM
Jan 2015

If all you do is give people reasons to vote against your opponent, you lose.

CrispyQ

(36,487 posts)
98. I would add one more:
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:42 AM
Jan 2015

When you vote for republicans who have a D behind their name, republicans win.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
121. +1000-This thread's great review ofHRC's faults/shortcomings/GOP connections
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:40 PM
Jan 2015

Not exactly what the OP hoped for!

 

og1

(51 posts)
22. Wisely spoken
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:41 AM
Jan 2015

Hillary is nothing more than a wallstreet door mat that says welcome to corporate interests!

drynberg

(1,648 posts)
64. Don't actually agree, but would vote for a 3rd party cand. if s/he is progressive. Four years of
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:11 AM
Jan 2015

The Hill would be disastrous, and frankly we don't have four years to spend pushing "centrists" policies...nor greasing the palms of Wall Street, et al. So, I wouldn't burn that Dem Bridge. Congress also has to be without all the blockage we've seen in the last six years, so those races hold great importance too. It is very early, and I believe The Hill's 85% will dwindle a lot in the next 6 months, at least that's where I'm fixing my star.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
67. Don't forget this is a CBS poll.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:13 AM
Jan 2015

The coronation of the darling of Wall Street has begun.. And they're comparing her with Joe Biden for God's sake. If third way Hillary has to face a traditional populist Democrat, most Democrats will choose the real deal. And when I say "Democrats" I'm including all the people who have already left the party in disgust.

Here's a poll you won't see from CBS, NBC, ABC,FOX etc, why more and more voters are leaving both parties every year. 42% of American now identify themselves as Independents and those numbers grow every year. So when they're polling "Democrats" we're only talking about 31% of the voters. Won't find clearer proof, people are becoming dissatisfied with the direction the Democratic party has taken. Hillary vs Bush is a perfect example of why..

Renew Deal

(81,866 posts)
144. Warren and Sanders were in the poll
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:31 PM
Jan 2015

"And they're comparing her with Joe Biden for God's sake. If third way Hillary has to face a traditional populist Democrat, most Democrats will choose the real deal."

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
164. Wouldn't a chllenge from the left be healthy for the country?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:35 PM
Jan 2015

What I meant by "face" wasn't the name recognition factor in an early CBS "poll". But a comparison of ideologies as in a campaign.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
81. What, specifically, has HRC as your anti-Democratic bogey person? ...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:34 AM
Jan 2015

It can't be her legislative record while she was a Senator ... that was pretty much in lock step with Senator Sanders; it can't be her term as SoS, because that wasn't "corporate."

So I wonder ... why, other than the DU-talk, is HRC your political Democratic breaking point?

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
216. Do you think it is NOT a part of the SoS' job ...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:52 PM
Jan 2015

to promote US interests abroad? And trade and securing of contracts for businesses domiciled in the US, are in the interest of the US ... you know, jobs and stuff.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
217. I think I was supplying information
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:49 PM
Jan 2015

... that contradicts your assertion:

...it can't be her term as SoS, because that wasn't "corporate"


Excerpts from link posted above:

Hillary Clinton is very aware of the advantages of being Hillary Clinton, and didn’t seek permission when she not-so-subtly encroached on the Commerce Department’s turf to install herself as the government’s highest-ranking business lobbyist. On her scores of overseas trips—at 956,733 miles and 401 days on the road, she is the most-traveled secretary of state—she’s made pitching U.S. companies part of her routine.


She’s also taken a leading part in drafting the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the free-trade pact that would give U.S. companies a leg up on their Chinese competitors.


Although Clinton’s corporate cheerleading has won praise from business groups, including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, “there’s been a certain amount of resistance” within the Commerce Department, says Edward Alden, a trade specialist at the Council on Foreign Relations. “There are concerns about why the State Department is doing this.”
 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
8. Huh, imagine that!
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:49 AM
Jan 2015

Last edited Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:09 PM - Edit history (1)

While the DU has become a bastion of "progressive of GTFO" the reality of the Democratic Party is far more mainstream.

People don't hate the things that progressives hate, and they don't embrace their processes.

People want good jobs, the ability to pay for their own health care, and the ability to own a home and raise their family. Clinton may well hold the keys to that future for millions of Americans.

TheKentuckian

(25,028 posts)
12. How so? What good jobs, ability to pay for your own health care, and what ability to own a home and
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 07:54 AM
Jan 2015

raise a family for which "millions"?

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
14. Simply put: a better economy.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:00 AM
Jan 2015

The economy is shit. I know, I know, the Obama cheerleaders will tell us that it's great! But the truth is that the growth on Wall Street has had no effect on the average American. Progressives will say that this is all the fault of the 1% and that if we just took their money away somehow, everyone would be better off.

Clinton, I believe, takes a more pragmatic approach and realizes that you have to pick your enemies.

Bottom line, Bill Clinton was 10x the president than Barack Obama. If Hilary is half as good as Bill it will put the economy on the road to a real recovery.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
15. Bottom line, Bill Clinton was 10x the president than Barack Obama.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:15 AM
Jan 2015

If Bill Clinton had to deal with the Media Barrage that HE himself brought into being by KILLING the fariness doctrine, he would have been incincerated. Add to this that he did NOT inherit the sheer mess W. did, W. who may very well rank with Ronny ray Gun as the president that did the most damage.

and

"But the truth is that the growth on Wall Street has had no effect on the average American"

To a large extent because Bill Clinton and Hillary keep defending the same rich people that want their heads on plates.

LuvNewcastle

(16,847 posts)
19. Bill and Hillary ARE rich people now.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:36 AM
Jan 2015

They've gotten filthy stinking rich since he left office. Chelsea's rich too, and so is her hubby. The rich don't want their heads on plates; they all belong to the same club.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
55. Chelsea's hubby's the hedge fund trading son of 2 failed grifter/politicians.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:59 AM
Jan 2015

Look up her in-laws - both former members of congress. Her father-in-law, or as some refer to him "felon-in-law" is Ed Mezvinsky

(F)ederal prosecutors said Ed Mezvinsky habitually dropped the Clintons' names and boasted of their friendship during the 1990s as he defrauded friends, family members and institutions out of more than $10 million.

Ed Mezvinsky was sentenced in 2003 to serve 80 months in federal prison after pleading guilty to a massive fraud that prosecutors said amounted to a Ponzi scheme. He was released from custody in April 2008, but remains under federal probation supervision.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/mezvinsky.asp#W86TSmhCqGEkOYkR.99

After serving five years in federal prison, he was released in April 2008. He remained on federal probation until 2011, and still owes $9.4 million in restitution to his victims.


And the groom's mother, Marjorie Margolies? Well, she tried to file for bankruptcy but the bankruptcy judge wasn't having it. Somehow the female bankruptcy judge didn't believe a woman who had served in the US Congress when said woman whined that she had no knowledge of her family's finances because her husband took care of all finances.

Shortly thereafter, she filed for bankruptcy,[20] but failed to receive a discharge from her debts, based on 11 U.S.C. §727(a)(5). The court found Mezvinsky had failed to satisfactorily explain a significant loss of assets in the four years prior to her bankruptcy filing. The bankruptcy judge stated, in her published opinion, "I find that the Debtor has failed to satisfactorily explain the loss of approximately $775,000 worth of assets (the difference between the $810,000 represented in May 1996 and the $35,000 now claimed in her Amended Schedule B)." Sonders v. Mezvinsky (in re Mezvinsky), 265 B.R. 681, 694 (Bankr. E.D. Pa. 2001).


When she filed for bankruptcy, a judge rejected her assertion of ignorance in a scathing decision that, depending on how you read it, either calls her feminism into question or suggests she knows more than she’s letting on. “Her consistent response to questions asked by her creditors about the disposition of her assets is lack of knowledge or ‘my husband handled it,’ a mantra that is completely at odds with her public persona, background, and accomplishments,” the judge wrote.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2013/12/the-clinton-in-law-marjorie-margolies-100696_Page3.html#ixzz3PH7Y4Lsv

Who would HRC seat these 2 grifters next to at state dinners? Whomeve they might be, they'd better hang onto their wallets. Oh, and since Ed Mezvinsky's own mother-in-law was one of his fraud victims, HRC would be smart not to invest in her son-in-law's hedge fund.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
61. Fortunately she is a totally lousy candidate, & the more people hear her the less they like her
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:07 AM
Jan 2015

Remember her last book tour, supposed to endear her to the masses... We know how well THAT went. Open mouth insert foot....

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
70. What's ironic is the things she got crucified for on the tour were for saying things DUers like.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:16 AM
Jan 2015

And what's more ironic is the people that crucified her for it was FOX.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
197. except for the fact that 85% of REAL Democrats like seem to like her...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:09 PM
Jan 2015

do you really think 85% of Democrats do not know who she really is???

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
74. HRC plays the grandmother card; I'll play the in-laws card.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:22 AM
Jan 2015

If she became president, her family becomes the First Family. Covered by press all over the world, and symbolic of American values.

dsc

(52,164 posts)
82. Of course
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:34 AM
Jan 2015

but rest assured if the genders were reversed there is no way in Hell anyone would make that claim.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
83. HRC's doing her best to hide Ed; not in wedding or new grandchild pictures.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:38 AM
Jan 2015

Oh, come on! Candidates' families are always put in the spotlight during campaigns. Ed Mezvinsky will be sought out for interviews, and in particular questioned about how much of that +$9 million he has repaid to his victims. Then the victims will be tracked down and interviewed. Relatives like that are unwelcome baggage. We're not talking about a DWI conviction here.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
196. It was also Bill Clinton who said on National TV several times that HIS taxes should be raised...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:08 PM
Jan 2015

so you are a little mixed up here...

BumRushDaShow

(129,224 posts)
23. "Bottom line, Bill Clinton was
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:52 AM
Jan 2015
10x 1/10th the president than of Barack Obama".

Fixed.

And as FYI, Clinton gutted the Federal Government -

As expected, the budget shows that the administration remains on track to surpass the downsizing goal negotiated with Congress in 1994. Legislation enacted that year directed the administration to cut 272,900 jobs between 1993 and 1999. Clinton's budget estimates that 331,100 jobs will be eliminated by the end of fiscal 1999.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/budget/stories/020398pay.htm


"The era of big government is over"

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
183. "1/10th/10x the president Obama is" = fixed. "The president OF Obama" just adds another kind of
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 05:06 PM
Jan 2015

error.


personally, I think both of them were/are presidents of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations.

just a bit of populist rhetoric thrown in the mix with very little follow-up. and the pitiful follow-up that happened was always made up for with things like "welfare reform" which negated any gains to the 99%.

TheKentuckian

(25,028 posts)
229. Too simply put to answer the questions. What is it you think she is going to do to create a better
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 11:27 AM
Jan 2015

economy?

Hell, may as well also ask what Bill did that Obama didn't but should have (not that I'm often confused with being an Obama cheerleader)?

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
26. As Hillary is one of the architects of TPP I just want to say. Thank you Hillary.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:56 AM
Jan 2015

NAFTA lost the US 92,000 Factories. Under Hillary we can finally rid ourselves of the Remainder!

GO HILARY!

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
92. Her "Global Initiatives" Foundation held a symposium ...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:27 AM
Jan 2015

on the global trade and TPP was discussed. And, a number of the people there were some of the big names in NAFT!!!

So obviously, she is all for the death of the American work force and the upward transfer of wealth!

(never mind, they also happen to be trade and global economics experts and never mind, her comments on what she would like to see come out of any trade deal ... all that is irrelevant when building the HRC bogeyman.)

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
126. HRC's Business LegacyatState Dept&leading part in drafting TPP
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:50 PM
Jan 2015

Excellent link. Of course, none of her fanboys/girls will ever acknowledge the accuracy of ANY criticism of her. It's getting so boring when HRC's supporters have nothing to contribute other than asking for links to materials which has been published over and over on DU. and/or elsewhere. I'm about ready to start telling them to just Google. The only advantage in responding to them is to get the word out to new DU members, and to hammer home her shortcomings, yet again. It's getting to be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Your link is to pro-corporate Business Week, which of course supports TPP & applauds HRC's LEADING PART IN DRAFTING TPP.


She’s pressed the case for U.S. business in Cambodia, Singapore, Vietnam, Indonesia, and other countries in China’s shadow. She’s also taken a leading part in drafting the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the free-trade pact that would give U.S. companies a leg up on their Chinese competitors.
 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
162. it is very instructive how much perception management HRC requires
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:33 PM
Jan 2015

and facts mean nothing to the pushers.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
169. Thanks Divernan, for taking the time to quote the article.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 03:41 PM
Jan 2015

I didn't have time earlier.

We can't have this corporate/wall street rep as our only choice. Scary as hell, it is.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
36. "May well hold the keys" is a pretty weak hypothesis.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:21 AM
Jan 2015

Elect-her-and-see is getting mighty old. Is there evidence of a secret progressive agenda that Clinton is going to unveil?

sendero

(28,552 posts)
62. Well her husband....
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:09 AM
Jan 2015

.. did more to kill all the things you claim you love than any single Republican, including Reagan. He gave you the repeal of Glass Stegall, the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act (look it up, folks should REALLY know that these things are), he gave you the 'end of welfare as we know it', he gave you "free" trade with China, he gave you NAFTA, more H1Bs and much more.

With HRC you can have all that plus warmongering.

But I guess as long as someone SAYS the right things what they actually DO doesn't matter.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
198. Proof please....this War Mongering meme has GOT to fucking stop on DU....
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:12 PM
Jan 2015

its like the DU version of FOX News....

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
78. Jeb Bush
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:26 AM
Jan 2015

Meaningless poll about name recognition only at this point. Republicans get the same numbers with Clinton intimate family friend Jeb Bush. People make different decisions when the election gets close and they actually look at the candidates.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
31. Of the 1000 ppl polled, how many called themselves Democrats? It doesn't say.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:08 AM
Jan 2015

This isn't exactly a meaningful poll.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
37. But it is representative of older folks.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:24 AM
Jan 2015

Many of whom still have landlines. So among the 65 and older crowd (who mostly vote Republican anyway), more older Dems love them some Hillary.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
18. Another pointless CBS poll
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:36 AM
Jan 2015

The M$M continues to set the narrative for low information voters.
They treat the presidency like a high school popularity contest.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
53. "The M$M continues to set the narrative for low information voters. "
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:58 AM
Jan 2015

Maybe we should require folks pass a civics test before they can vote.

LuvNewcastle

(16,847 posts)
27. So they want her in the primaries.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 08:58 AM
Jan 2015

No surprise. We'll see how voters react to each candidate as they speak and meet the crowd on the campaign trail. That's when excitement builds toward particular candidates.

Let them all have their say and then we'll see who the people want.

Polls like this mean nothing when no one has even gotten into the race yet. The party hasn't even begun.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
28. Things should get interesting around here come primary season
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:00 AM
Jan 2015

Even more so than 2008, I would imagine.

 

BrainDrain

(244 posts)
29. 85% of Democrats.....
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:00 AM
Jan 2015

That would be the 85% taken from HRC's campaign staff.

Besides, like Forrest, we should say....

Run HRC run! And in the end, she will get her butt handed to her. She is a shill, a corporate tool, and nothing but a "middle of the road", bank loving, corporate hand out taking, no different than a repug, DINO.

If she is the nominee, I will be sitting out 2016.

Have a nice corporate America ya'all!

easychoice

(1,043 posts)
40. You nailed her lying ass first try!!!
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:37 AM
Jan 2015

She came in #3 behind Edwards last time she ran.
On another note she is known to be a lousy lawyer who laughs when she gets Rapists cut loose.I don't care if she has Bill's help because he isn't any.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
71. HRC put a 12 year old rape victim through hell, later laughed about the case.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:17 AM
Jan 2015
As a 27-year-old lawyer, Hillary Rodham (now Clinton) represented Thomas Alfred Taylor, a 41-year-old man accused of raping a 12-year-old girl. Based on court documents obtained by CNN and Clinton's own account in her 2003 memoir "Living History," she was able to win a plea deal for Taylor based on a forensic mistake that cast doubt on the semen and blood samples found in Taylor's underwear. In court documents, Clinton questioned the girl's emotional state as she sought a court-ordered psychiatric evaluation.

Clinton’s critics are highlighting the case, insinuating Clinton is not the champion of women she frames herself to be.

Rogin's interview followed a report earlier this week by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative publication, that included an audio recording of a 1980s interview where Clinton talks about the case. The interviews were done by Arkansas reporter Roy Reed and found by the Free Beacon at the University of Arkansas library.

"I had him take a polygraph, which he passed, which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs," Clinton tells Reed. In the interviews, Clinton retells the story of the case, acknowledging that she thought Taylor was guilty; at times, laughing.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/06/20/critics-question-clintons-record-with-women-as-rape-victim-speaks-out/

I researched this case during 2008 and learned, to my disgust, that HRC pressured the Arkansas public defender's office to spend the money for her to fly to NYC to interview and hire a "hired gun" psychiatrist and then fly him down to Arkansas to overwhelm the jury and convince them the 12 year old was lying. The money she spent out of that tight budget should have and could have been used to far better purpose to hire local expert witnesses for many of the public defender's clients.

easychoice

(1,043 posts)
77. Thanks,I was working from old memory.Too lazy to look it up.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:26 AM
Jan 2015

She isn't worth the bother.
The real point is she and her handlers have an agenda.So we would be electing a Trojan Horse.We have had 3 of those in a row and it isn't working out real well.
Again,thank you.

wyldwolf

(43,868 posts)
96. Interesting. Politifact's and Media Matter's investigations differ from your "research."
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:34 AM
Jan 2015

And they didn't have to take a right wing source's lead on it like you did.

But, of course, your 'opinion' completely bogus without including anything to corroborate your 2008 'research' (other than a 2014 article that quotes The Washington Free Beacon.)

See:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/jul/17/did-hillary-clinton-ask-be-relieved-rapist/
http://mediamatters.org/research/2008/02/25/carlson-asserted-clintons-court-appointed-repre/142673

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
105. Hah! Your Politifact link supports my statements.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:01 PM
Jan 2015

I was not addressing why she chose to defend a man she considered guilty of rape, but rather the fact that she believed him guilty, laughed about it and still went to extraordinary lengths to get him off. He ended up pleading out to a reduced charge of fondling, because the crack Arkansas police botched the evidence of the 12 year old's blood stained panties. The article YOU cited also backs up my claims about my earlier research, i.e, she went to New York to get an a high powered expert to intimidate the local yokels in Arkansas. The article also validates the tape recordings from the University of Arkansas on which Hillary laughed about the case.

&quot s)he couldn’t recall the name of the Nobel Prize-winning blood expert from New York, whose promise to testify was critical to her defense. "

I urge everyone to read your politifact link, not as to why she took this case, but as to the despicable, win-at-any-cost manner in which she pursued it, at the expense of a 12 year old child. That method of belittling a younger woman victimized by an older man surfaced writ large when she bizarrely blamed Monica Lewinsky as a looney toon, and excused Bill's actions.

At PolitiFact, we decided to review what’s known about the case to see if Clinton accurately portrayed how she came to represent the defendant. Because some of the key players have died, we won’t issue a rating on our Truth-O-Meter.

Overall, we did find a few inconsistencies in Clinton’s recollection of the nearly 40-year-old events. But we also found significant evidence suggesting she had little choice but to take the case. And the story itself provides insights in the early career of a potential 2016 presidential candidate.

Clinton mounted a vigorous defense that included discrediting the child victim’s story by writing in an affidavit that the girl was "emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men" and had made "false accusations" in the past. The victim told Thrush in 2008 and the Daily Beast that Clinton made that up.

Those details didn’t make it into Clinton’s memoir Living History or her recollections of the case in the newly released interview. She does note that the defendant passed a lie-detector test — "which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs," she said in the 1980s — and she said the prosecution botched one of the most important pieces of evidence, Taylor’s blood-stained underwear. She called it a "terrible case."

Taylor, charged with first-degree rape, ultimately pleaded guilty to unlawful fondling of a minor. He died in 1992.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
119. Here ya go! Read it and weep!
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:30 PM
Jan 2015
“I had [the client] take a polygraph, which he passed – which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs,” Clinton says on the tapes, laughing.

But the amusement in her voice when she describes an error by the police lab that made potentially damning evidence against her client unusable is chilling.

Investigators had secured the accused rapist’s underwear and sent it for blood testing. The testing appeared to confirm the defendant’s guilt, Clinton said, but the lab returned the underwear with the critical part that was tested missing.

Clinton recounts how she took what remained of the underwear to a renowned forensics expert in New York to have him confirm that the remnants were unsuitable for confirmation testing. She tells the interviewer how she returned to Arkansas with a letter from the expert and a clip of his biography from “Who’s Who.”

“I handed it to [the prosecutor], and I said, ‘Well this guy’s ready to come up from New York to prevent this miscarriage of justice,” Clinton says with sarcastic laughter.


“So we were gonna plea bargain.”

Faced with an evidentiary disaster, and the prospect of defense testimony by a celebrity witness, the prosecutor caved.

Instead of a hefty prison sentence, the accused rapist got off with time served – which Clinton recalled was about two months in the county jail.

The tapes were made in the mid-1980s, and the rape in question took place in May 1975.


Read more: http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/06/16/chilling-hillary-audio-she-laughs-at-how-she-got-a-child-rapist-off-with-plea-bargain-discredited-12-year-old-victim-125782#ixzz3PHkmpTMp
 

BrainDrain

(244 posts)
147. dude...seriously..
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:50 PM
Jan 2015

aren't you tired of being taken to the woodshed all the time?

HRC is a dead issue here..take a hint and go try to drum up some tired old support at the retirement community down the road, cause it ain't working here.

wyldwolf

(43,868 posts)
152. Dude, seriously. Someone claimed to have all this research from 2008
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:57 PM
Jan 2015

But can't produce it. Laughable.

No, I haven't been taken to the woodshed yet.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
222. The Hillary Clinton/Rapist Tapes- from Univ. of Arkansas archives
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 09:48 AM
Jan 2015

Yes, I recalled learning about this in 2008. Well guess, what? I don't keep a journal of my internet searches. However I most sincerely want to thank you for ignoring the substance of the topic and hammering on the date, because I now have found many, many links to the tape (held in the archives of the University of Arkansas). It seems in 2014 there was a lot of attention given to this - which we can reasonably expect will continue as long as HRC is a potential or actual candidate for the presidency.

The issue is that Hillary Clinton not only defended a man she admits on tape she believed to have raped a 12 year old girl, but years later laughs about the whole case. So here's the link - don't watch it if you've just eaten.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A0LEV7w1U75UhHQAZVMlnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBsa3ZzMnBvBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--?p=The+Hillary+Clinton+Tapes&tnr=21&vid=9AB6A3704BEB684CD4219AB6A3704BEB684CD421&l=367&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DUN.608004676190079843%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3De2f13f2awK4&sigr=11bufe8jj&tt=b&tit=The+Hillary+Clinton+Tapes&sigt=10ppe1ifu&back=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fyhs%2Fsearch%3Fp%3DThe%2BHillary%2BClinton%2BTapes%26ei%3DUTF-8%26hsimp%3Dyhs-001%26hspart%3Dmozilla&sigb=13522no0j&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-001

Yes, there are tons of reports of this - google it and you'll get over 900,000 hits! So if you HRC fans don't have the stomach to watch it now, just wait because it will be widely circulated during her candidacy.

Over the course of the interview — conducted from 1983 to 1987 by Arkansas reporter Roy Reed for a piece in Esquire magazine that never ran — Clinton reveals how she took advantage of critical mistakes by the crime-scene team and the prosecution to get Taylor to plead to a much lesser charge.

Young Hillary Clinton heard laughing while discussing her defense of an accused child rapist in newly discovered audio tapes

Decades before she was a senator and Secretary of State, a 27-year-old Clinton was a court-appointed attorney who helped get an Arkansas man accused of raping a 12-year-old girl off the hook. In recently unearthed tapes, Clinton, who suggests she felt her client was guilty, is heard discussing her role in the controversial case with cavalier ease and laughter. A young Hillary Clinton callously rejoiced at getting an accused child rapist off the hook even though the then-lawyer suspected the man was guilty, newly unearthed audio recordings of the youthful future pol show.

Clinton, then a 27-year-old legal aid lawyer in Arkansas, is heard on the old recording, obtained and first reported on by the Washington Free Beacon, casually discussing how she was able to finagle a plea bargain for her client — an Arkansas man accused of raping a 12-year-old girl — because of a legal technicality.

“This guy was accused of raping a 12-year-old. ‘Course he claimed that he didn’t, and all this stuff,” says a cavalier Clinton on the recording, referencing her client, Thomas Alfred Taylor, who was charged with the 1975 rape.

“I had him take a polygraph, which he passed, which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs,” a chuckling Clinton is heard saying — a seemingly obvious clue that she felt her client was guilty
.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/young-hillary-clinton-heard-laughing-discussing-defense-accused-child-rapist-newly-discovered-audio-tapes-article-1.1832009

wyldwolf

(43,868 posts)
228. You've gone from "I researched this in 2008" to "I recall learning about this in 2008"
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 11:05 AM
Jan 2015

Truth is, you didn't know anything about this until the conservative Washington Free Beacon published it last year and you're just trying to retroactively appear informed.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
230. One learns from doing research, my dear!
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 11:44 AM
Jan 2015

And yet again you ignore the substance of my comment! Didn't have the courage to watch that tape? Granted it creates a lot of cognitive dissonance for Hillary fans.

While a graduate student at Pitt, I co-ordinated my research projects through the Learning Research and Development Center. It's not that complex a concept, really. One learns through research.

I suggest you listen to that tape of HRC, in her own words laughing about getting a rapist off with a plea bargain - I believe it was 2 months for time already served in the county jail, and comment on her actions.

Don't suppose you happen to have a 12 year old daughter or grand daughter? Perhaps a neighbor's child?

wyldwolf

(43,868 posts)
231. If you call 'research' parotting a conservative source from last year... then
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 12:12 PM
Jan 2015

.. claiming to have done it in 2008, then yeah.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
200. and you know this how?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:14 PM
Jan 2015

So funny that the Far Left thinks Majority America agrees with them on everything!!!!

Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #200)

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
32. These are great numbers for Hillary.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:16 AM
Jan 2015

I do have to say I am surprised with Warren's numbers though. I guess because she said she doesn't want to do it. At this point I think Warren is the only one that could defeat Hillary in a primary, but I think Hillary would have still won.

Vinca

(50,299 posts)
34. She's not my first choice (see photo), but I'd vote for her in the general.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:20 AM
Jan 2015

I thinks she's our most viable candidate to win.

 

TRoN33

(769 posts)
35. Hillary Clinton as madam president will make corporations bathe in gold and sleep well in nights.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:20 AM
Jan 2015

She is friends with Rupert Murdoch and Ben Netanyahu, two of most prominent fascists on this world. She is proud to be one of te elites. She coddle with Wall Street. She will increase the spending on military even if it's already the largest spending of our annual budget. She will cut more taxes and regulations on wealthy corporations. She isn't crazy about ACA and could cut it if given a chance.

Oh I forgot to mention tea party, they would flip the switch from racist to sexist group and continuing their howl of useless outrage.

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
160. You say those things like they are bad things!
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jan 2015

Don't you realize Third Wayers LOVE her for those things? And she has the cover of a D behind her name!

 

vi5

(13,305 posts)
38. The fact that people respond to this with...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:25 AM
Jan 2015

"Well who are the alternatives?" shows just how far the Democratic party has fallen from their ideals.

The fact that we have no alternatives to yet another dynasty name advocating Republican light foreign policy and a Republican light approach to the economy shows just what a shit state we are in.

I may not have a solution but I sure as shit am not going to be part of the problem as far as helping us to go further down this road as a party. I've already done enough the past 10-15 years of being o.k. with the "lesser of 2 evils" approach. I'm not going to do it any more.

And besides, if these wonderful, completely accurate numbers are to believed she'll clearly have no problem winning without my help.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
39. 63% want "ideological purity"; they won't vote for a DINO-1%-Wall Street BFF
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:34 AM
Jan 2015

There's an obvious inconsistency in the results of this poll, which can only be explained by the fact that the 63% of registered Democrats, or self-identified Dems who responded "it's more important to have a nominee who agrees with them" have not yet been made aware of HRC-Sach's intimate ties with and kow-towing to Wall Street, Big Banks and the One Percenters.

She poor-mouthed the Clintons' dire financial straits because she measures her and Bill's $80 million net worth (http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/politician/president/bill-clinton-net-worth/) against the One Percent crowd, which the Clintons are lusting to join. They're on the fringes of that group now, but only in the sense of being bought-and-paid-for politicians. Because to the 1 %ers, politicians are people one hires (like a well-dressed, well-spoken servant) to act in one's best interests - not social equals. In Bill's case, amusing to have as a guest at a party, but for god's sakes don't leave him alone with your wives or daughters.

As far as the really wealthy go, the Clintons will always be parvenues, arrivistes and NOKD (Not Our Kind Dear, as they say in St. Barths and Palm Beach). A parvenue is someone who has risen to a higher economic class but not gained social acceptance.
An arriviste is a person who has recently acquired unaccustomed status, wealth, or success, especially by dubious means and without earning concomitant esteem. "Dubious" is appropriate re the Clintons' wealth because that + $100 million the 2 of them have raked in for speaking fees can accurately be considered as $100 million of debt they have incurred to sponsors expecting payback if HRC makes it to the Oval Office.

(As far as the poll goes, no 1%ers were contacted. They don't have listed numbers and they have people who answer their phones.)

Bottom line: HRC's "ideological purity" as that is defined by Democrats, will not pass the test of either a primary or final campaign for the presidency.

Renew Deal

(81,866 posts)
58. Your post makes no sense
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:03 AM
Jan 2015

If 85% want her to run and 63% wants ideology over win-ability then she clearly dominates in both categories. I'm sure it makes you feel good to think that "if only Democrats knew how terrible she is they would change" but she is the best known of all the candidates. The point is that in the real world, Hillary is a candidate Democrats want.

That world also by plurality doesn't want non-Democrat Bernie Sanders to run and isn't interested either way about Warren.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
112. I've had graduate level classes in statistics - you'll just have to trust me on this.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:15 PM
Jan 2015

Before I went to law school, I was a sociology grad student (ABD in applied research) and NIMH research fellow for 3 years. I designed and administered survey research, including polls, for Dr. Paul Lazarsfeld, the founder of Columbia's Bureau of Applied Social Research and the only sociologist ever admitted to the National Academy of Sciences. There are many people like me, posting on DU, with advanced degrees and expertise - sadly it is impossible to condense years of graduate work and experience into responding to challenges like yours.


Paul F. Lazarsfeld Facts

The Austrian-born American sociologist Paul F. Lazarsfeld (1901-1976) was one of the most influential social scientists of his time. He founded four university-related institutes of applied social research and was a professor of sociology at Columbia University for three decades.
Outstanding in His Field

Lazarsfeld received many acknowledgements of his accomplishments during his lifetime. He was president of both the American Association for Public Opinion Research (1949/1950) and the American Sociological Association (1961/1962), and he was an elected member of the National Academy of Education as well as of the National Academy of Sciences. He received honorary degrees from Chicago and Yeshiva universities in 1966, from Columbia in 1970, from Vienna in 1971, and from the Sorbonne in 1972—the first American sociologist ever so honored. In 1955 he was the first recipient of the Julian L. Woodward memorial award of the American Association for Public Opinion Research, and in 1969 the Austrian Republic awarded him its Great Golden Cross, largely for his help in establishing the Institute for Advanced Studies in Vienna in 1963. He was a much sought-after consultant, speaker, and teacher. Shortly after his death from cancer on August 30, 1976, a Paul F. Lazarsfeld Memorial Fund was established in order to sponsor a series of annual lectures in his honor. In 1983 a large collection of his books and papers was dedicated as the Lazarsfeld Archives at the University of Vienna.
http://biography.yourdictionary.com/paul-f-lazarsfeld

Believe me or not - it matters not to me.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
46. She is more more liberal than I thought.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:50 AM
Jan 2015

Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 89% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 96% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 35% by the US COC, indicating a mixed business voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 82% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes. (Dec 2003)
Rated 89% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes. (Dec 2003)
Rated 100% by the CAF, indicating support for energy independence. (Dec 2006)
Rated 0% by the Christian Coalition: an anti-family voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 17% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 100% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 8% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 85% by the AFL-CIO, indicating a pro-union voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 100% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 21% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes. (Dec 2003)
Rated 80% by the CTJ, indicating support of progressive taxation. (Dec 2006)

Voted NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade. (Jul 2005)
Voted NO on extending free trade to Andean nations. (May 2002)

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/hillary_clinton.htm

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
51. These are from 2002-2006, not meaningful, and if you really look at the numbers,
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:54 AM
Jan 2015

even back then, they aren't that good.

But thanks for reminding us of the past, and how much more we know now.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
52. Discounting the significance of actual votes is a personal decision. You are welcome to it.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:57 AM
Jan 2015

Apparently some Democrats do not feel the same way.

MineralMan

(146,320 posts)
149. A primary and general in each Senate election
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:51 PM
Jan 2015

and a presidential primary in 2008. Five times voting for her that adds up to.

Counting is good. Understanding elections is also good.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
68. she also voted not to confirm Alito and Roberts
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:14 AM
Jan 2015

which means a lot when it comes to the next Supreme Court appointments.
Protecting the rights of women, and LGBT are very important to me.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
49. 85% approve of her candidacy doesn't mean
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:53 AM
Jan 2015

That Democrats don't want other candidates in the race - 40% approve of Joe Biden in the race, 23% approve of Elizabeth Warren in the race and 12% Bernie Sanders.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
56. Elections are often won by only a few percent. We may just have a GOP President in 2016.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:01 AM
Jan 2015

Hillary has extraordinarily high negatives among Democrats, many of whom would likely stay home rather than have to hold their noses long enough to pass out.

Another disaster inflicted from above for the Party.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
93. I expect Clinton would duplicate what Coakley did in MA.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:29 AM
Jan 2015

Candidate that looks fairly good in the abstract, and has decent polling, but can't get people to turn out.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
97. The comparison is unfair to Coakley. The difference is the intensity of the negatives against HRC
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:41 AM
Jan 2015

Coakley was the victim of indifference, that led to low Democratic turnout. Hillary's negatives among some Democrats, no matter how broadly shared, are intensely felt. That is a major factor to be considered by anyone who might consider supporting her candidacy.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
171. Do you have any evidence to support your assertion...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 03:56 PM
Jan 2015

Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that "Hillary has extraordinarily high negatives among Democrats " that will result in a depressed turnout?

I have an open mind[/i ] and can be persuaded to oppose her candidacy if said evidence exists as I would oppose the candidacy of any Democratic candidate who was destined to lose


Thank you in advance.

bluedigger

(17,087 posts)
69. All this means is that Dems want an open primary, and that Hillary is the front runner.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:14 AM
Jan 2015

I already knew that without a poll.

MoonchildCA

(1,301 posts)
95. All this poll says to me is that this early out,
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:33 AM
Jan 2015

it's still about name recognition. Hillary has been in the headlines for two decades now, and was a major candidate last time around. Biden, of course, being Vice President would pull some kind of numbers. The others pretty much fall in line according to name recognition.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
99. I approve of Clinton's candidacy. i aprove of Webb's candidacy.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:48 AM
Jan 2015

That does not address which of the two I will vote for in the primary, if they turn out to be the only two running. I generally approve of Democrats running for President against Bush and the Clown Car on the right. So I will generally approve of any Democrat choosing to run for President.

What I would like to see is substantive polcy statements on domestic policy, women's rights, individual rights, income inequality, progressive taxes, gun regulation (OK, gun regulation will not be addressed because it has become the third rail of politics built on the bodies of dead children, but a guy can hope).

Their foreign policy credentials don't mean much to me, because since Reagan, the differences in foreign policy have been very slight, and the differences between Bush and Obama are so small as to be practically invisible. The US is an empire and imperial policy will continue until we surrender the top spot.

NYC Liberal

(20,136 posts)
101. Democrats want another liberal in the WH -- that's a good thing.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 11:49 AM
Jan 2015

Despite the fervent Clinton hatred on DU, she is a great, Liberal Democrat who is extremely popular within the party and the base. The "corporatist!!1" "DINO!!!1" buzzwords thrown at her hilariously out of touch with realty.

brooklynite

(94,641 posts)
130. I sometimes wonder if the anti-Hillary people might not be happier at FREE REPUBLIC....
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:55 PM
Jan 2015

I know they're somewhat extreme on some policy points, but they're big on ideological purity and they're firmly convinced that their Party is selling them out...

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
163. An I wonder if the pro-Hillary people might not be happier at THIRD WAY.org
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 02:35 PM
Jan 2015

I know they're somewhat right of center on policy points, but they're big on corporatism and they're firmly convinced Democrats just need to keep moving further to the right...

brooklynite

(94,641 posts)
168. Gee, ELIZABETH WARREN, HOWARD DEAN, and BARNEY FRANK are Third Way members?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 03:37 PM
Jan 2015

Who knew?

But to your question, since Hillary supporters are 't threatening to leave the Party, I think that DEMOCRATIC Underground is a great place to hang out.

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
172. I admire your relentless effort to push the Democratic party to the right
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 03:59 PM
Jan 2015

Folks at the yacht club must think that is spot on, eh old chap?

brooklynite

(94,641 posts)
178. I admire your relentless effort to deny reality...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 04:45 PM
Jan 2015

...e.g. that Hillary Clinton isn't a mainstream Democratic candidate supported by a broad range of Democrats, including liberals like the aforementioned Warren, Frank and Dean.

You are certainly welcome to endorse and work to elect someone more liberal if you can find one. But slamming a respected US Senator and Secretary of State for a respected Democratic President as a republican in disguise is going to be a hard act to sell.

Not that we won't enjoy the show...

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
181. Keep up the Third Way work
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 05:00 PM
Jan 2015

'Let's make Democrats more like Republicans' is an inspiring slogan. Hillary 2.0 will end up in the same place as Hillary 1.0, despite the efforts of people like you to shove the party even further to the right

brooklynite

(94,641 posts)
188. You'll have to do better than snippy insults...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 05:34 PM
Jan 2015

...they don't bother me, because whether it's hanging out with Hillary Clinton at the salon or Elizabeth Warren at lunch or President Obama at a White House party, I live in the real world of politics, and never let grumbling in the blogosphere substitute for what real Democrats think.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
110. I've never met a single person in my "real" life who likes Hillary Clinton.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:10 PM
Jan 2015

So I agree with your statement.

Divernan

(15,480 posts)
134. The few I've met have easily been convinced to change their minds.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:59 PM
Jan 2015

They just haven't been informed of the facts of her pro-Wall Street actions/political values.

I'm very active in AAUW, and the members are nearly all well educated and well informed on political happenings. They're pro Warren, and not because she's a woman but because she's an effective progressive politician. We have a few conservative members, but they are GOP. Don't know anyone Dem. who supports HRC and I'm fairly active in my local and county Dem. organizations. No Bill fans there either.

brooklynite

(94,641 posts)
142. I've met a lot of Elizabeth Warren supporters who support Hillary Clinton...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 01:28 PM
Jan 2015

Come to think of it, that list includes Elizabeth Warren.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
180. Signing a letter to get along isn't "supporting"
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 05:00 PM
Jan 2015

She refuses to publicly endorse Hill. You won't find a single quote saying she endorses Hillary for president.

brooklynite

(94,641 posts)
184. "She'd be great"
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 05:08 PM
Jan 2015

Formal endorsement isn't the point. Warren encouraged Hillary to run, and I respect her enough not to think of her as a political sellout who would sign a letter just to "get along".

But perhaps you do?

brooklynite

(94,641 posts)
190. You're absolutely right...the correct word was "terrific"
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 05:37 PM
Jan 2015
Elizabeth Warren: I hope Hillary Clinton runs for president

Sen. Elizabeth Warren says she hopes Hillary Rodham Clinton runs for president in 2016 — the latest in a series of declarations of support by the Massachusetts Democrat, who some have speculated could seek the Oval Office herself.

"All all of the women — Democratic women I should say — of the Senate urged Hillary Clinton to run, and I hope she does. Hillary is terrific," Warren said during an interview broadcast Sunday on ABC's "This Week," noting that she was one of several senators to sign a letter urging Clinton to run in 2016.


Thanks for clearing that up.

brooklynite

(94,641 posts)
213. This "new English" is really confusing me...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 09:38 PM
Jan 2015

"supporting" means "not supporting"

"not running" means "running"

brooklynite

(94,641 posts)
114. For discussion, let's stipulate that it's not 85%...
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:18 PM
Jan 2015

Last edited Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)

...Would you accept 50% -- what Clinton got against the immensely popular, well organized and well funded Barack Obama, in a race when all the Clinton era and IWR baggage was looked through?

And if so -- since Warren isn't running, and Sanders is a self-labeled Socialist, who has nowhere near the fundraising capability -- do you really imagine that Clinton is going to do less well than in 2008?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
124. Just like America was "ready" to invade Iraq in 2003. Thank you Hillary -
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:44 PM
Jan 2015

you were there for us then, too.

When the phone rings at 3am, you'll be there again. As will we all.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
125. She was wrong on that but I voted for Kerry so I can vote for Hillary.
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:47 PM
Jan 2015

I have already voted for here 5 times.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
133. What would it take to disqualify her, then, if not her influential Iraq War vote?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:58 PM
Jan 2015

And, what about her role in pushing US into another war in Syria? Not to mention her enthusiastic leadership in destabilizing the entire MENA region?

Why can you trust that she won't go further down the same slope, again? Or, is that just not really all that significant?

 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
117. Highway to Hill?
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 12:21 PM
Jan 2015

Not my first choice, but if the Pukes pick somebody evil enough (what else can they do?), then I might ignore my own conscience long enough to blacken the dot.

Response to wyldwolf (Original post)

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
202. Between name recognition, and the fact that nobody is currently running, this poll seems useless n/t
Mon Jan 19, 2015, 06:19 PM
Jan 2015
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
218. If the Democratic Party nominates H. Clinton, they will have sold their souls to the devil (Oligarch
Tue Jan 20, 2015, 01:49 AM
Jan 2015

Oligarchy). The wealthy Oligarchy love Clinton.

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