E-cigarettes can produce more formaldehyde than regular cigarettes, study says

[CreekDog]

Researchers measure more formaldehyde in e-cigarette vapor than is found in traditional cigarette smoke
Formaldehyde can cause leukemia and nasopharyngeal cancer in people, health experts say

But study coauthor James Pankow, a chemistry professor and expert on cigarette smoke dangers at Portland State University, said the line between e-cigarettes and tobacco cigarettes was growing fuzzier by the day.

“No one should assume e-cigarettes are safe,” he said in a statement. “For conventional cigarettes, once people become addicted, it takes numerous years of smoking to result in a high risk of lung cancer and other severe disease; it will probably take five to 10 years to start to see whether e-cigarettes are truly as safe as some people believe them to be.”

...


A preliminary study in the New England Journal of Medicine raises a new worry about electronic cigarettes – exposure to formaldehyde.

Under certain conditions, taking 10 puffs from an e-cigarette would expose a user to about 2.5 times as much formaldehyde as he or she would get from smoking a single tobacco cigarette, according to the study.

Formaldehyde is the pungent chemical that was used to preserve the frog you dissected in your high school biology class. It’s used as an industrial disinfectant and as an ingredient in permanent-press fabrics, plywood, glues and other household products, according to the National Cancer Institute. It is also formed when the propylene glycol and glycerol in e-cigarette liquids and oxygen are heated together.

The World Health Organization’s International Agency for Research on Cancer says formaldehyde can cause leukemia and nasopharyngeal cancer. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency considers the chemical a “probable human carcinogen.”

...

Based on these results, the research team estimated that an e-cigarette user who vaped 3 milliliters of e-liquid per day would breathe in at least 14.4 milligrams of formaldehyde. The actual daily exposure is probably higher, they wrote, because their experiments failed to capture all of the vapor the e-cigarette produced.

For the sake of comparison, a 2005 study in the journal Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology estimated that a person who smoked a pack of 20 cigarettes would inhale 3 milligrams of formaldehyde in the process.

The researchers calculated that the lifetime cancer risk incurred by inhaling formaldehyde would be 5 to 15 times higher for long-term e-cigarette users than for long-term tobacco smokers.

...

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-electronic-cigarette-formaldehyde-20150121-story.html

Based on my experience posting about this topic on DU previously, I expect to find several instances outright hostility towards even discussing the dangers of e-cigarettes.

[meow2u3]

1. That's a load of junk science bull hockey

This is nothing more than an anti-vaping hit piece peddled by nicotine prohibitionists/Big Pharma shills who are absolutely full of shit and they know it.

Human breath produces formaldehyde naturally.

[CreekDog]

4. What are you saying is the concentration of formaldehyde in human breath?

[meow2u3]

6. What I'm saying is that this article is propaganda that misleads about the alleged danger of e-cigs

or at least twists the truth about them. I don't trust anything coming out of the tobacco control industry, which is the nonprofit/propaganda arm of Big Pharma. The red flag went up when the qualifier "can produce..." was mentioned. To me, it's sheer speculation and junk science at best and cherry picking or outright lying at worst.

Under certain conditions, taking 10 puffs from an e-cigarette would expose a user to about 2.5 times as much formaldehyde as he or she would get from smoking a single tobacco cigarette, according to the study.

First of all, the article didn't mention the exact conditions in which this can occur. I know: it's when the voltage of a device is turned way up and not enough liquid is present in the heating element, which most vapers avoid like the plague.

Here's why I don't trust the media hype dissing e-cigs: the powers that be, namely, the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries, have a reason to lie about e-cigs. E-cigs, or personal vaporizers, are cutting into their profits because they're working better than patches, gum, and drugs like Chantix, which has a black box warning about the side effects of suicide and mental instability. That's the only danger of e-cigs IMO.

I don't know about you, but e-cigs allowed me to quit smoking where other, more traditional methods failed for me. I'll be goddamned if I'll let some lying prohibitionists will yank my e-cigs from me, and damn the political correctness!!!!

Think of the children my ass! That's just a ruse to keep adults from consuming nicotine apart from tobacco.

[CreekDog]

12. So you really have nothing scientific to offer

the meaning of your initial post is that because there is formaldehyde present in human breath, that any additional amount of it, no matter how much, is automatically safe.

so how about Carbon Dioxide? that's in your breath, is any amount of that safe for you also?

nice thinking. try science next time.

[meow2u3]

14. You want scientific facts? Here they are

http://vaporawareness.org/truths-vs-scares/

A vast amount of disinformation that has been put forth about the Electronic Cigarette and the E-Cigarette industry. For the hundreds of thousands of people who are now using this technology as a logical alternative to tobacco, governmental agencies and anti-tobacco groups who should provide and publish factual information about the E-Cig are not doing so and instead are utilizing their authority for either political advantage or profit, both of which diminish their authority.

Again, good people who are well-intentioned are making the false claims that this technology is potentially dangerous and untested. We want to present to you those erroneous claims that we see as most prevalent and present to you simply the science/data and truth to refute those claims:

More at link

[CreekDog]

16. there is no science that statement

you were asked about the safe levels of formaldehyde and despite being asked multiple times to tell us at what levels formaldehyde is safe, you have posted NOTHING to answer that question and apparently have no idea.

from what you've written, you believe any level of formaldehyde is safe.

[meow2u3]

20. I'd keep an open mind about tobacco harm reduction if I were you

Here are links to some studies.

I wouldn't believe alarmist tobacco control hype about e-cigs--which contain zero tobacco--just because you don't like them. I'm a grown adult; I don't take kindly to being patronized as if I were a RW ignoramus.

[CreekDog]

25. Look at your posts

you said formaldehyde was safe, and I keep asking, at what level is it safe and you won't answer.

you DON'T KNOW.

yet you lecture us for even talking about it.

[Bozvotros]

52. You are right

What kind of bullshit is it to say "under certain conditions" and then point to a condition that no one does? It is big pharma, FDA, big tobacco bullshit. There was one condition out of many in the study that produced that high number. The others showed the same or less formaldehyde as smoking tobacco. Formaldehyde as you say is produced in normal breathing. Let's say for argument that there is more formaldehyde in e liquid than one would encounter without vaping. There is a hundred times less exposure to all the other toxins in cigarettes. No one I know says they no for sure that vaping is completely safe. They just know that the vast amount of real research being done points to it being safer by far than smoking.

[olddots]

2. what about smoking E crack

My body is a temple and I'm really into wellness .

[KamaAina]

3. Mmmmmm. Formaldehyde.

Some Vietnam vets swear that San Miguel beer, from the Philippines and widely available "in country", contains it.

It is also fairly widely available in Hawai'i. Oh dear.

[jmowreader]

5. Jinro Soju at least used to contain formaldehyde

They put a few drops of it into the bottle after filling it with Soju to seal out the air. The Soju drinker removes the cap and pours off a small amount of the drink before imbibing.

[KamaAina]

45. Now you tell me.

Also widely available in Hawai'i. Certainly in my Korean neighborhood.

[Ino]

7. Two-thirds of your quote is not in the linked article.

I guess you didn't see fit to include this tidbit...

When the e-cigarette was used on the “low voltage” setting of 3.3 volts, the researchers didn’t detect any formaldehyde in the vapor.

[CreekDog]

10. Everything I quoted is in the linked article, you have it backwards

If you meant to say the opposite, that two thirds of the article wasn't in my quote, I expect that you know that the rules prevent quotingv the entire article because of copyright limitations.

[Ino]

47. I expect you don't know this rule...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=copyright

To simplify compliance and enforcement of copyrights here on Democratic Underground, we ask that excerpts from other sources posted on Democratic Underground be limited to a maximum of four paragraphs, and we ask that the source of the content be clearly identified.

But my bad... everything you quoted, all 10 paragraphs, IS in the linked article, though rearranged. You left out only the three paragraphs critical of the study, including the sentence "When the e-cigarette was used on the “low voltage” setting of 3.3 volts, the researchers didn’t detect any formaldehyde in the vapor."

[olddots]

8. there is a whole lot of formaldahyde out there

It was used in glue throuout the building industry in the last century .

[bigwillq]

9. If products like cigarettes and e-cigs are so dangerous

why are they legal?

Is it just the money, or the right to think and choose for oneself?

Why are narcotics like crack and cocaine illegal? Too dangerous?

I feel like cigarettes kill just as many people, if not more, than illegal drugs.

[CreekDog]

11. does it occur to you that products are banned or regulated after they are found dangerous?

I don't understand what kind of science you are offering here.

[bigwillq]

13. Hmm. Last I heard, cigarettes have been found to be dangerous.

Again, why aren't they banned?

I smoke, btw.

Just throwing questions out there.

[CreekDog]

15. the article is about e-cigarettes

apparently you want to talk about other things.

enjoy!

[bigwillq]

18. I was talking about e-cigs in my initial post to this thread.

I want to know why aren't they banned if they are harmful? I agree they are harmful. I think they should be banned if they are found to be harmful, and I feel the same about cigarettes. But why aren't they?

[CreekDog]

19. they are banned in many cases

they are banned for children, their use is banned in many areas and most workplaces.

if e-cigarettes are determined to be as dangerous, they should be treated similarly.

[bigwillq]

22. Ok. Cool.

Thank you for putting up with, and answering, my questions.

[meow2u3]

17. Do you want to see nicotine criminalized?

Do you really want prisons full of vapers?

This paternalistic attitude of "it's bad for you; therefore, it has to be banned or overregulated" creates an atmosphere where adults are treated like children unless they conform to the values of nicotine prohibitionists. Unfortunately, this is a part of liberalism I don't subscribe to.

The least we can do is scrap the double standard of harm reduction where it's OK to practice safer sex or for drug addicts to go to needle exchanges, but when a smoker switches to e-cigs, all of a sudden it's evil and has to be banned. Be consistent, for the love of Pete!

[bigwillq]

21. I think products should be be banned

if they have been found to be harmful. But I think I have more of an issue with one thing being legal (cigarettes) and another (cocaine) being illegal. What's the difference? Both are known to be harmful to one's health, but why is one legal and not the other?

[meow2u3]

23. I don't take kindly to being told what I can't put in my body

I don't think something should be banned because of a remote, hypothetical possiblity that it's bad for you. That kind of attitude is paternalistic and treats adults like children and nonconformists like criminals.

Real liberals don't criminalize what they don't like.

[CreekDog]

26. who is telling you what you can put in your body?

the scientists who did the study?

me?

nobody.

read the article.

it is you who is hostile to us even discussing a scientific study.

[bigwillq]

27. There's that issue.

And I somewhat agree.

But that doesn't answer the question as to why cigarettes are legal and cocaine is not.


There's enough evidence to prove that some of these products are harmful and it doesn't make sense that one is legal and one is not.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

34. What about corn?

It's used to make a bunch of things that are harmful. How about candy? Soda? Red meat? Wine?

What about banning water? A bunch of people drown every year, so why not ban it as well? Or cars - they kill thousands every year, so maybe they should be banned as well?

Seriously, where do you draw the line?

[CreekDog]

24. Are you trying to create a straw man because your posts on the science were so bad?

I posted an article about a New England Journal of Medicine article on e-cigarettes.

First you tried to say that formaldehyde was safe because it's present in our breath, you seemed to be unable to come up with an opinion on whether the levels of formaldehyde make any difference in terms of its safety or toxicity. Despite not knowing that, and not answering that, you called the article unscientific, while offering no science in response.

Now you're accusing me of wanting to outright ban these items simply because I posted an article about a study on their safety.

It's pretty obvious what you'd like to do is shutdown any discussion of e-cigarette science.

You can try to do it, but I'm going to point out what you're doing.

[meow2u3]

30. The straw man is the alarmist tone of anti-vaping articles

This is a refutation: http://vaping.info/news/2015/new-e-cig-study-hypes-formaldehyde-fears-based-faulty-experiments

Here is another scathing response: Spreading fear and confusion with misleading formaldehyde studies

[bhikkhu]

28. It sounds like a recommendation to use low voltage settings

where no measurable formaldehyde is produced. Good to know. Its also possible to get second degree burns if you turn your water heater all the way up. And you can get skin cancer if you spend too much time in the sun. And so forth...

[CreekDog]

29. No, the article directly argues against what you just posted

you said it sounds like a recommendation, but the study co-author says:

But study coauthor James Pankow, a chemistry professor and expert on cigarette smoke dangers at Portland State University, said the line between e-cigarettes and tobacco cigarettes was growing fuzzier by the day.

“No one should assume e-cigarettes are safe,”

are you trying to mislead people here? there is the evidence that shows that you are doing just that.

[bhikkhu]

32. No, I was just reading the article

"When the e-cigarette was used on the “low voltage” setting of 3.3 volts, the researchers didn’t detect any formaldehyde in the vapor. "

How fuzzy is that?

[meow2u3]

31. High voltage should be used only to burn off gunk from coils

I personally (accidentally) vaped at high voltage and the liquid tasted burnt. I wouldn't recommend cranking up the voltage because if you experience a burnt taste, chances are you're putting yourself in harm's way.

I agree with you in that you should use the lowest voltage/wattage possible for optimum flavor and performance.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

33. The study is suspect for a bunch of reasons

This guy explains it better than I: http://www.clivebates.com/?p=2706

And while I can't say for sure, the experiment appears to have been set up to deliver a very specific result and only that result. Like most compounds, if you give it enough heat it will burn and create noxious smoke/vapor/etc. For example, if I were to burn a plastic spaghetti wrapper and test the resulting vapor, I'd almost surely find some really nasty stuff in it. That doesn't mean there's something inherently bad in either the spaghetti or the packaging, but it would be very easy to create a study like that in the OP that purported to show the dangers of pre-packaged pasta.

Based on the known and extreme risks of smoking, I'll take my e-cig any day. And I agree it's a discussion that needs to be had, because my overall health improved dramatically after quitting smoking and moving to e-cigs. And while my own anecdotal evidence is useless, you'll find thousands or tens of thousands of testimonials from people with the same results. Yep, it could be dangerous, but almost everything we do has the chance to harm us.

On edit: here's an even better explanation:
http://www.ecigarette-research.com/web/index.php/2013-04-07-09-50-07/2015/191-form-nejm

[angstlessk]

40. I live in Detroit, probably more dangerous than smoking e-cigs

but less dangerous than smoking cigarettes!

[Oilwellian]

35. The Europeans have been studying ecigs much longer

Right away, I noticed huge flaws in the experiment. People who vape don't vape at the highest voltage available. Everyone I know vapes between 3.5 - 4.0 volts. We also don' take ten puffs off of a vape every time we pick it up. At the most, I take three 4 second puffs and then put it down. This study seems to have gone to unrealistic measures to get the desired results, for whatever reason.

I'll stick to what European scientists and doctors have discovered so far. This letter tells you what they think of ecigs. Please note the many who signed it:

http://nicotinepolicy.net/documents/letters/MargaretChan.pdf

Everything you've wanted to know about the study of ecigs:

http://www.ecigalternative.com/ecigarette-studies-research.htm

[angstlessk]

39. I push the button, blow out the first puff..then lightly inhale the second

I often just puff and don't inhale...it's an oral fixation

[Logical]

36. Our city voted to treat them like cigs, which was great! nt

[hunter]

37. I'm ferociously allergic to formaldehyde.

Life in the biology and medical professions, aggravated by "clean" crisp hair shampoos.

I've acquired a wicked latex allergy too.

[angstlessk]

38. I am on e-cigs

I smoked for 50 years, trying to quit often and failed. I had acute bronchitis twice..the first time I quit smoking for a month, but cigarettes available, I gave in. The second bout, I knew I had to quit..I discovered e-cigs, even though I had just ordered 10 cartons, I have not smoked another cigarette since.

Even when I was well, I could hardly sleep for the coughing..I started my e-cigs using high nicotine (28 mg) and am now down to .6 mg of nicotine. My next order will be .0 mg nicotine.

Not sure if I will ever be able to quit my pipe...the oral addiction, but it will not be a physical addiction.

[Oilwellian]

41. I went from 36 mg. to 0 mg. in a 7 month span

Never really missed it, or even noticed a difference when cutting back on each order of liquid. Like you, I think I'm more addicted to going through the motion of vaping and getting that throat hit rather than meeting a nicotine need. I smoked cigarettes for a long time as well and knew when I started developing a constant cough, it was time to give quitting a serious try. I tried it all too until my son introduced me to the more powerful vapes. Haven't smoked a cig since and that was a year ago last August.

There are those I suppose who have a propensity for anality when it comes to ecigs. For those of us who smoked and switched to vaping, knowing our choice was right, is a no-brainer.

[angstlessk]

43. Based on how I smoked..a little puff and short inhale..I wonder

if, all along, it was about the oral fixation?

Cause I do believe even at 0 nicotine I will still want my pipe.

Like, when I was smoking, I have no desire to "smoke" when laying down

[Contrary1]

42. Good for you!

I've been smoking off and on (mostly on) since 1965. I have tried the pills, the gum, the patches. The longest I was able to stay away from cigarettes was just a little over 4 years.

I decided about 5 months ago to give the E-cigs a shot. I bought the Ever-Smoke model, looks and smokes like an actual cigarette. I started feeling better physically after just a couple days.

To step down further, I figured I needed something that didn't fit in my hand like a real smoke, so I went to a vape pen. That helped break the tactile addiction.

I am now at 18mg, and will be going to 12mg soon. The little bottle I buy lasts the average vaper 7 days. Mine lasts me almost about 3 weeks.

By the time the forward-thinking Repub leaders in Indiana outlaw E-juice completely, as they hope to do this coming June, my plans are to be off it altogether.

Yeah, the government really wants us to quit smoking , but they're missing all that revenue. The tobacco lobbyists are spending big bucks to take the E-cig option away.

And we all know how that will end up, don't we?

[angstlessk]

44. WOW you stayed away for 4 years!!!!!

I tried cold turkey..did good Saturday and Sunday till Monday..I awoke at 5 am could not drink coffee cause that just invited a cigarette...so I went running..only it was VERY scary.

The moment I arrived at work I felt trapped (work was doing the quit smoking program) I knew I could not get a cigarette if I wanted to...and that was that...at lunchtime I ran to purchase a pack of cigs.

Bought the gum...never tried the patch...the prescription drug had more side effects than the drug to cure toenail fungi...

E-cigs WORKED! And I never felt I needed to run!

[Contrary1]

46. Well, to be honest with you...

I think I was just waiting for an excuse to start in again.

Unfortunately, that excuse came in a rather devastating manner. Our only grandchildren (twin girls) were born too early and didn't survive. Being strong for my daughter and son-in-law, while grieving such a loss for myself was more than I could handle.

I'm ashamed to admit that I went into a self-destruct mode. The alcohol came first, and then the cigarettes. My self-pity party lasted nearly 5 years. In retrospect, I really needed professional help, but couldn't bring myself to ask for it.

Actually, the drinking was easier for me to overcome than the smoking. It's been 10 years now, and I need to unload this other crutch. E-cigs are helping me to do that.

Good luck to you, and no matter what happens...cigarettes don't make it better.

[angstlessk]

48. I am sorry..what happened to you was NOT an excuse it was a REASON

I cannot even imagine what you went through...have you posted in the Bereavement Room?

[AndreaCG]

49. So don't smoke either

If they're prone to giving you cancer.

Although I don't smoke pot I haven't seen the science that says smoking it tends to cause cancer, maybe cause people don't tend to smoke 20-60 a day.

[Jon82]

50. the results were yielded by operating the devices improperly. very poor method.

Nicotine is in several plants that people eat daily. I do believe that sales should be limited to those above the age of eighteen. I know several people that used vaping devices to ween themselves off nicotine. Others switched to avoid the carcinogens of the Burning tobacco. As far as there not being much knowledge or research data on these electronic devices, that is false. With a little digging, anyone can find that there is plenty of studies showing they are much safer (not entirely safe because of the nicotine) than actual cigarettes. The problem is that mainstream media latches onto the paranoia and misinformed for ratings. The studies that show the high levels of formaldehyde intentionally operated the devices in ways that they are not normally operated to yield those results. Does not seem to be an actual study of the safety concerns but more of how can we make this seem worse than what it is. Also, research who is pushing most of the negative publicity and research against vaping. After a little digging, you will find that it is big tobacco. Surprise. Do you really think they are concerned about your health? Or, are they really only concerned with profits.

[CreekDog]

51. seem to be finding your way around very quickly

[Jon82]

54. The one study I would like to see but have to wait...

The one study I would like to see but will have to wait is the long term affects of vaping. Even though vaping has been around a lot longer than most people realize, it has not become a big enough practice until now. This pretty much means that we have to wait on the long term study. At least, that is one unbiased truth in the article.

[meow2u3]

53. Besides, no vaper likes a dry hit

That's what happens when a variable wattage mod is maxed out: the juice gets too hot and not only burns, but also makes it harder to wick.