Alan Turing, Who Cracked Nazi Code, stripped of rank, convicted for being gay

[marym625]

And was chemically castrated. He was instrumental in ending the war with Germany. He never hid his sexuality. And his thanks was a conviction for homosexuality. It was because of this that he killed himself.

"Turing made no secret of his sexuality, and being gay could easily lead to prosecution in post-war Britain. In 1952, Turing was convicted of "gross indecency" over his relationship with another man, and he was stripped of his security clearance, subjected to monitoring by British authorities, and forced to take estrogen to neutralize his sex drive - a process described by some as chemical castration."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/12/23/256698016/alan-turing-who-cracked-nazi-code-gets-posthumous-pardon

[dhol82]

1. There are some questions about his death

Some people think it was accidental.


Death

On 8 June 1954, Turing's housekeeper found him dead. He had died the previous day. A post-mortem examination established that the cause of death was cyanide poisoning. When his body was discovered, an apple lay half-eaten beside his bed, and although the apple was not tested for cyanide,[115] it was speculated that this was the means by which a fatal dose was consumed. An inquest determined that he had committed suicide, and he was cremated at Woking Crematorium on 12 June 1954.[116] Turing's ashes were scattered there, just as his father's had been.

Philosophy professor Jack Copeland has questioned various aspects of the coroner's historical verdict, suggesting the alternative explanation of the accidental inhalation of cyanide fumes from an apparatus for gold electroplating spoons, using potassium cyanide to dissolve the gold, which Turing had set up in his tiny spare room. Copeland notes that the autopsy findings were more consistent with inhalation than with ingestion of the poison. Turing also habitually ate an apple before bed, and it was not unusual for it to be discarded half-eaten.[117] In addition, Turing had reportedly borne his legal setbacks and hormone treatment (which had been discontinued a year previously) "with good humour" and had shown no sign of despondency prior to his death, setting down, in fact, a list of tasks he intended to complete upon return to his office after the holiday weekend.[117] At the time, Turing's mother believed that the ingestion was accidental, resulting from her son's careless storage of laboratory chemicals.[118] Biographer Andrew Hodges suggests that Turing may have arranged the cyanide experiment deliberately, to give his mother some plausible deniability.[119]

Turing's biographers Andrew Hodges and David Leavitt have suggested that Turing was re-enacting a scene from the 1937 Walt Disney film Snow White, his favourite fairy tale, both noting that (in Leavitt's words) he took "an especially keen pleasure in the scene where the Wicked Queen immerses her apple in the poisonous brew".[120]

[marym625]

2. That's interesting

Sounds to me like he was murdered. The idea that the hormone injections, being ripped of his station, and all that went along with that, didn't effect* him, is ridiculous. He was obviously a good actor. There's no way that wouldn't hurt. (*Having a brain fart, can't think if effect or affect is right)

I appreciate all that information. I'm going to have to do more reading about it.

It is horribly sad that after doing so much for humanity, he was stripped of so much and only a little more than a year ago, was he pardoned.

[jeff47]

10. A is the verb. E is the noun.

If it's doing something, then it's affect.
If it is something that was done, it's effect.

[KingCharlemagne]

21. Not exactly. "Effect" can also be a transitive verb, as in "to effect a change". Likewise "affect"

can also be a noun, as in "People who suffer from depression often display a lack of affect."

Pedantic itch scratched. Now back to regular programming

[marym625]

71. TThank you

It isn't that I have not read and been told this a million times, just my mind seems to reject it sometimes. Don't know why. Just does

Thank you

[KingCharlemagne]

75. Best (unsolicited) advice I can give is first, say it out loud to yourself and

trust your instincts. There's something about vocalizing words in context that brings a second level of validation to them. Second, submit it to someone who knows English grammar for a second look (if it's more important than merely being chided by us resident DU Grammar Nazis, should you instincts prove incorrect.

[marym625]

87. believe it or not

I am also a grammar nazi. It's just those two words I have always had a mental block with. Just doesn't want to sink in. I usually do check with my brother, a quiet grammar nazi, but he wasn't available

Thanks for the advice. Always welcome.

[JDPriestly]

103. I love these words. I think that their different meanings are fun.

[marym625]

70. Thank you

It's the rules that I forget. It's just one of tthose things that my mind seems to reject.

[woolldog]

3. You have to see the movie

The Imitation Game, based on his life. Fantastic movie!

[marym625]

5. Thank you!

I do! I was just posting because it seemed appropriate today. I have only done a little reading on him in my life but I see I need to do more.

Thank you

[marym625]

9. Thank you!

I will do just that!

[MineralMan]

12. That's an illegal file-sharing website. If you watch or download

that movie, you'll be breaking US copyright law. Your ISP will have a record of your viewing or download. The film is currently in theaters. Why not go to one and watch it legally? Is saving a few bucks worth the risk?

[Rex]

23. The risk involved is so low that there are millions of illegal download sites.

Why do you think it is so popular all over the globe? I suggest you contact the FBI Cyber Crimes unit and report said site since you seem so intent on telling people how bad it is and it steals money out of your pocket.

All it takes is a few minutes of your time.

http://www.fbi.gov/report-threats-and-crime

FWIW anyone that goes to that site and downloads their 'media player', is going to get malware installed on their computer, that is all.

[MineralMan]

25. That's not important to me. It's still illegal and amounts

to stealing. I don't think DU should be used for such purposes. The FBI has no jurisdiction over websites registered in Iceland, anyhow. I'd rather inform DUers than get involved with wild goose chases involving the FBI.

And yes, most illegal file-sharing sites are happy to provide some free malware with your movie. That's beside the point.

I will continue to point out when links go to copyright violation websites, if you don't mind, or even if you do mind.

[Rex]

28. You can do something about it or not, that is called an option that you choose.

You say it threatens your way of life, but won't do anything about it. Your choice. The FBI now has jurisdiction to go all over the world so don't pretend they are powerless. I will point this out if you want me to or not and will do so when I feel like it.

[MineralMan]

32. Actually, when theft of intellectual property has affected me,

I have, indeed, done something about it. Sometimes I won. Sometimes I didn't. I take it seriously. You don't.

[Rex]

34. I take it very seriously, it is my job to stop theft.

Why would you not take 5 minutes to do something about it since you declared it a wrong? Funny way to take something seriously. And you wonder why there are millions of illegal download site - because of people with your attitude.

Not my fault if you don't really really care. Maybe next time don't bring it up? Again, I will continue to point these things out even if you don't like it.

[MineralMan]

35. The FBI is already aware of putlocker.com

It doesn't need my help with that. I checked. In fact putlocker.bz was forced to shut down, so they moved their domain registration to Iceland, with the .is registrar. Iceland won't shut it down without an order from the courts in Iceland, which has not happened...yet.

The FBI is on all of the major streaming pirates. It is, however, limited in the actions it can take, depending on where the domain is registered. That's a diplomatic issue, really, and the State Department is also involved in intellectual property theft, as well.

So, you see, my five minutes is all used up in checking to see if the various agencies are aware of the website. They are. In addition, the copyright owners take an active role in fighting piracy, since they are the ones harmed by it. That's similar to what I have done when someone has stolen copyright-protected material from me in the past. Generally, a letter from my attorney has been sufficient to collect payment from the thieves.

These days, I'm not creating material that will be registered with a copyright in my name. Instead, I produce content on a contract basis, and the copyrights are registered by a third party. I get paid up-front for my work and the copyright is assigned to the people who hire me to produce it.

I am, however, working on a book, which I'll be publishing as an e-book. I will register and retain the copyright on that work. If material from that book is stolen, I'll go after the thieves, just like I have before. My attorney doesn't charge that much to hit thieves with notice and a demand for payment. He's good at it, too.

I assume the movie companies have even better attorneys than I do. Everyone is aware of the movie piracy outfits, and they're all working on controlling that. It's not easy, apparently, but my assistance is not needed.

[MineralMan]

36. The poster of that link has self-deleted the post, which was what

I hoped would happen. End of story, and end of the conversation.

[Rex]

39. Good for them and I will decide when I am done replying and when I am not done.

So you just sit back and try not to be so upset.

[sabrina 1]

111. Now, now Rex, when you are told a conversation is over, it's over! Sharing material

text, audio, video is a Liberal principle. Big Corporations don't share. Eg, we had a product that was pretty unique, never bothered with a patent nor tried to 'go after' anyone who copied it. Still made money from it, and we were happy to see the idea itself appreciated.

As Shakespeare said: 'We strut and fret our hour upon the stage, and then are heard no more'

So much angst in this world over material things and in the end, everybody dies. Better to share while you're here, imho.

[woolldog]

38. You don't need to download their media player.

Thats not what I was saying. I don't even think that site has one.

You can just stream it over the web. What I was saying is that *I* have a plugin installed in my browser that allows me to download streaming flash videos like the kind you find on the site I linked and YouTube and flash videos all over the web. It allows me to play it back at my leisure. These are standard Firefox plugins.

And no you won't get a virus doing that. I never have, though I take precautions -- paying for real time virus protection that is constantly running, frequently run scans etc. never had a problem.

[marym625]

37. I wasn't aware

I didn't post it. Thanks for the information

[Logical]

58. People here love stealing movies and music. Bet they shoplift also. Disgusting. nt

[cwydro]

97. never stolen a movie in my life.

Do not send me another foul message please.

I do not send nasty emails to anyone.

You should not either.

[MineralMan]

11. Anyone who watches that movie at that site is breaking the law.

They're stealing intellectual property. That site is a cloud-based storage site, where people sometimes upload illegal copies of movies and other copyright-protected material.

If you're using a cable or other broadband service, they will have a record of your having watched or downloaded that movie. How much are you willing to risk to save $10? Go see the movie in a theater. It's nominated for at least one Oscar, and is currently playing in US theaters. Why risk legal problems by viewing it illegally?

Please don't link to illegal file-sharing websites.

[cwydro]

14. That wouldn't stop me .

I am going to the theater here in about 15 minutes to see it.

But who cares if someone is illegally streaming it?

[MineralMan]

15. I care. I create copyright-protected material.

That's how I make my living. People who steal it are stealing from me. The same is true for movies and other intellectual property. It's against the law. You may not care, but it's still illegal. I care, though. I pay for movies, music, books and other copyright-protected material. It helps to encourage artists to create such things.

That's who cares: everyone who makes their living from creating copyright-protected material.

[cwydro]

16. Well, as I said.

I'm off to the theater to see it now.

[MineralMan]

20. Good. I'm planning to see it this weekend. Turing is a hero, as far

as I am concerned, and a hero who was driven to suicide by an ungrateful government. It's an important story. I'll also buy some popcorn at the theater. Folks work there. People work making movies, too. Many people earn their living creating works that others steal. Too bad, and hardly progressive.

[cwydro]

26. My very first job

was at a theater!

[MineralMan]

31. That's true for a lot of people, even today.

The movie business employs a helluva lot of people, all of whom are dependent, at least in part, on people paying money to see movies. Stuff is all linked together.

I've never had anything to do with the movie or television business. My writing has always been in other areas. And I've had work stolen, too. A couple of times, I got paid by the thieves after explaining that it would cost them less to pay me without going to court. Other times I did not.

Am I a zealot about intellectual property? Yes, I am. I make my living, still, by creating it.

[woolldog]

41. Some people are disabled and cannot go

to the movies. Others are too poor to afford 10+ dollars for a movie, others are caregivers and cannot leave the one they are caring for alone for two hours. Do you really have a problem with them having a little joy in their lives? Just some of the reasons someone might not go see the movie. Don't be so narrow minded and classist in your assumptions!

[MineralMan]

44. I'm sure that's true. Thank you for self-deleting the post

with the link.

[cwydro]

54. 8 bucks for the movie.

12 bucks for water and popcorn.

I will stream from now on.

Enjoyed the movie, but that's a ripoff.

[Logical]

62. LOL, so your idiotic logic is that is you don't agree with the price, stealing is OK? nt

[cwydro]

99. I've stolen nothing.

Have a nice day.

[Rex]

48. 'Am I a zealot about intellectual property? Yes, I am. I make my living, still, by creating it.'

Yet upthread he states he doesn't care about anyone else in his industry, just HIM.

I guess zealot means something different today then it did for the last thousands of years.

[Logical]

60. FFS that is a stupid answer. nt

[woolldog]

65. Very "logical" takedown of my post.

From someone who is neither poor, nor disabled, or probably ever been a real caregiver.

[Logical]

66. Bullshit, justifying stealing is flat out stupid. Unless you are starving to death. Fucking....

redbox movies are $1.20.

Shit, have a neighbor rent one and split the fucking cost. $.60 each. Both watch it in 24 hours.

People ALWAYS justifying stealing. Always!!

So they are poor but have a laptop and high speed internet?

Netflix streaming is $9 a month. So 2.25 a week. 1000s of movies they can use for their "little joy".

[woolldog]

67. The Imitation game isn't on Netflix yet. nt

[Logical]

68. LOL but they can get their "little joy" on other movies that were in the theatre.....

last year on netflix. And the imitation game will be on netflix in a year. Get it?????

You are sounding clueless.

[woolldog]

72. Wait a minute...you're advocating "sharing"

Netflix accounts with one's neighbor? By your logic that is stealing too. Hypocrisy much?

[Logical]

73. Hey Einstein, where did I mention sharing Netflix accounts? You...

Really are not paying attention. Go ahead and keep stealing just quit fucking trying to justify it!

[woolldog]

74. Post #66

You wrote:

"redbox movies are $1.20.

Shit, have a neighbor rent one and split the fucking cost. $.60 each. Both watch it in 24 hours."

[Logical]

77. You said Netflix, not redbox! What is wrong with you? Nt

[woolldog]

78. That's all you got chief?

That I confused from whom you're advocating stealing? You think it's ok to steal from redbox but not Netflix? Of course not.

By "sharing" with your neighbor you are stealing the 1.20 you would and should otherwise be paying redbox. Now get lost hypocrite.

[Logical]

79. First of all you said Netflix, which shows how clueless you are.....

But since you mentioned Redbox fine.
You rent a Redbox movie for 24 hours! You can watch it as many times as you want. You can lend it to your neighbor to watch it. The clueless point you're missing as usual is that someone's making money off this rental. Unlike your stealing.
keep responding, it just make you look more clueless

[woolldog]

80. You are worse than a thief.

You are a thief and a hypocrite.

[Logical]

81. Okay you want to steal I get it. Call Redbox, ask them! Nt

[cwydro]

98. I stole nothing.

You are just plain silly.

[cwydro]

102. woolldog

don't waste your time with this poster.

Clearly messed up.

[cwydro]

47. I just watched

The imagination game and it was a great movie.

[Rex]

49. I hope you did so from paying money to see the film, if you illegally downloaded it

from the Internet, then you can be convicted of a crime. Oh wait...you are not stealing from me personally, go ahead and do what you want then. I don't care.

[cwydro]

52. No, I was ripped off royally at the theater.

Cost me 8 bucks to get in and 12 bucks for popcorn and water!

Never again!

[Rex]

55. Dam just for yourself?

That is crazy! 20 bucks for a movie...what crap.

[cwydro]

56. yep.

I went alone

[MineralMan]

50. I'm looking forward to seeing it this weekend.

Thanks for the review.

[Logical]

61. You mean "stole" it. Correct? nt

[cwydro]

100. I paid eight dollars at the theater.

What is wrong with you?

[GummyBearz]

43. I watched it at the theatre and paid for my ticket

Lets get real, modern day theatres in the US rip you off as much as possible. And as of this posting Imitation game has made just under $120M. I'm pretty damn sure they can put food on the table even if someone chooses to download their movie. Are you really complaining that they didn't make more millions? Cuz they wanted that gold plated swimming pool, but now it will have to be silver plated? The horror...

American theaters rip you off at every turn of the road. When I saw Imitation Game I paid $6, which is the standard price before ~3pm at an Edwards theater nearby, if you can believe that. So why do other Edwards theaters, just 10min away, charge $12 for the same ticket? Must be the price of... uh.. their extra special urinal cakes they put in the bathrooms???

[MineralMan]

45. I go to movies at the theater.

I choose the movies and the theaters. There's one chain I don't go to. I don't like their 30 minutes of commercials and overpriced concession stands. There's another one just a couple of miles away that has lower prices for both the movies and the popcorn. I might have to wait a month to see the latest movie, but that's OK. I have time.

There's another theater near me that runs the same movies even later, and it's just $4. Its concession prices are much lower, too. I don't choose that one, though, because the times they run the movies I want to see don't work for me.

I choose. Sometimes, I choose to watch the movie at home, streamed by my cable TV provider, and make my own popcorn.

What I do not do, ever, is go to some website and watch a pirated stream of a movie. That's theft, and I'm no thief.

[cwydro]

51. I paid 8 bucks and

that was the matinee!

I bought a medium popcorn and a bottle of water. 12 bucks!

No more movies for me ! Not at the theater anyhow!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

53. The true story is an important one; this isn't it.

It's quite a fun movie, but has little to do with either spirit or letter of the truth. Cumberbatch turns in the same performance as Turing that he turned in as Sherlock Holmes, essentially.

[Logical]

69. You miss the point that this is exposing many people to this story that would never otherwise....

have know anything about it. You seems to make this same post many times.

I think you miss the point of movies vs. documentary's.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

96. Yes, I've posted on this in response to several people.

I'm a mathematician working in related areas myself; there were a great many places where it made me physically wince.

Also, its portrayal of Turing as an emotional cripple, rather than as a mildly awkward but fully-functional and well-rounded human being, annoyed me.

And it completely omitted Welchman, Tutte, Flowers, Knox, Foss, etc, etc - a great many people I much admire and was sorry to see slighted.

I think that as a movie it's fine. But you're promoting it on its merits as a documentary, telling people "this story" rather than "a fun but fictional story loosely connected to the true one".

[Logical]

59. LOL, shoplift too? Pick pocketing? You on the right site? nt

[cwydro]

101. Seriously?

I've been on DU for years.

What is wrong with you?

[Blue_Adept]

18. Jury Results

I would think this is actually a Terms of Service issue - don't post illegal stuff. Which that link clearly is.

On Wed Jan 28, 2015, 12:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

watch it online
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6146068

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This post links to a file-sharing website that is illegally streaming this and other movies. Despite it's ULR being an Icelandic domain, watching copyright-protected movies like this one is illegal in the United States. It's theft of intellectual property. DU should not be linking to sites that stream current movies illegally. Please hide this.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jan 28, 2015, 12:39 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Thanks to the alerter for the heads-up.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Alerter is 100% spot on.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Making sure to alert someone who may not know this site is doing a naughty is fine; 99% of all DU'ers would remover or correct the post immediately. It's not hurtful, destructive, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, and was immediately spotted as inappropriate. Leave it alone; we're all adults here.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I just don't care about things like illegal streaming. Perhaps I should, but I don't.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a great area IMHO. Links are put up here all the time to watch MSNBC or other news sites .

While it is clearly a link to a file sharing site I am going to vote leave it because no one blinks twice when links to news feeds are posted ,I don't see the distinction

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Rex]

46. Close but no cigar, alerter.

Guess it was too much to just ask the poster to remove the post. That would require discussion.

[Logical]

64. Not a shock, I notice a lot of clueless DUers love stealing shit and have fucking idiotic......

ways to justify it.

People justify shoplifting the same way.

Just makes them feel better I assume.

[FLPanhandle]

6. Not that accurate though.

...but it's Hollywood. Closer than most of their "based on a true story" movies.

[AnnieBW]

7. AWESOME MOVIE!!!

Benedict Cumberbatch really nails Turing's mannerisms. (Turing was probably an Aspie.) We were in tears at the end of it.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

22. I enjoyed it, but be aware it's wildly inaccurate not just in letter but in spirit.

It's like Braveheart - if you're able to watch it as a fantasy epic drama loosely inspired by historical events, you'll probably enjoy it, but if you try and watch it as a fictionalised depiction of history you'll be driven wild with rage.

I managed to keep myself to only shaking my fist at the screen once, at the point where Knightley's character, ostensibly a mathematician, pronounced "Euler" as "you-ler".

[caraher]

93. ARRRGH! Yes, re: Euler

I go through rants about that name every semester, telling students it does NOT rhyme with...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL0427F7FCC6F183E4&feature=player_detailpage&v=KS6f1MKpLGM#t=15

Last semester I had a student give a talk where the word "Eulerian" featured prominently. It turns out that if you rely on the internet for a pronunciation you'll wind up saying "yooLEERian"

[m-lekktor]

24. excellent film. another good one about him

is a PBS masterpiece theater type show from the 90's called " Breaking the Code". this one is different enough from Imitation Game to make it worth watching without being redundant. Imitation Game seemed to focus more on his personality type, ie possible asbergers, than his gayness which, if i remember, was focussed on more in Breaking the Code. In Breaking the Code they also showed him after he commited suicide by biting into an apple filled with cynanide. which they found him clutching when they discovered his corpse. In Imitation Game his death wasn't covered just mentioned that it occured at the end of the movie before the credits rolled

info for Breaking the Code : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115749/

an interesting New Yorker piece from 2011:

Alan Turing's Apple The New Yorker

<snip>
Many of the stories you can tell about Alan Turing—the mathematician who did so much for the Allies during the Second World War, and was so betrayed by his country afterward—are like folk tales crossed with science-fiction novels. (He broke German naval codes in an office, in Bletchley Park, called Hut 8, which sounds like a place a robot witch would live.) And some are just parables about gratitude. Last week, Google sponsored a garden party near London (the city before the riots), in Bletchley Park, to raise money to restore some of their proto-computing equipment. That is about as apt an act of corporate philanthropy as one can get; what is Google’s business but breaking the codes in Internet traffic, seeing the patterns, and guessing where we want to go next? It’s like connecting a torpedo to a U-Boat in the middle of an ocean, which, very simplified, is what Turing did. The company also helped what is now the Bletchley Park Trust get some of his papers back. (“I think a lot of our staff feel that if they had been around during the war they would have wanted to work at Bletchley Park,” a Google spokesman told the Telegraph.)

At Bletchley Park, Turing helped figure out how to build a machine that could make sense of codes generated by Enigma, the Germans’ intractable encryption device. He also came up with theories about how computers might work. And he devised the Turing Test: if a person, after watching a number of conversations (via text on a screen) between a computer and a person, couldn’t tell which was which, then the computer could be said to be thinking. What could betray it as a machine—a lack of kindness? It is humane to think so. But one might work Turing’s experience into the equation.

In 1952, Turing was arrested for homosexual activities. (Gays and lesbians have always served their countries in wars, after all.) Given the choice between jail and a severe course of hormone treatment (known as chemical castration), he took the latter, though not for long; he killed himself two years later. He was only forty-two: he had been just twenty-seven when the war began, in 1939. About a year before that, Disney’s “Snow White” had opened in theatres, and Turing had talked about how taken he was by it. That’s not so unusual, and maybe no one would have remembered the detail. But Turing was found with an apple in his hand, one that he had filled with cyanide himself and then bitten. (By coincidence, there are three new Snow White movies in the works; one doubts any will play the poisoned-apple scene as uncannily.)

<snip>

the rest of the article:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/alan-turings-apple

[marym625]

92. I think I saw this

I had forgotten about it until now. I am going to have to check it out. Thanks!

[m-lekktor]

105. i need to rewatch it, I don't remember much of it.

I just remember the ending with the apple mostly!

[marym625]

106. We can watch together

Sort of

[m-lekktor]

108. haha!

I have so much to watch and a backlog of books to read as it is i have no idea when i would get to it! I need to find it somewhere as well!

[marym625]

110. Same here.

Too much time spent working and on DU

[AtomicKitten]

4. Wonderful movie!

Shitty way to treat this brilliant man.

[marym625]

88. amazing to me that they did this to him.

Not surprising, just amazing. Take advantage, get what they need, then treat him worse than an animal. Pretty typical. Sucks.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. People wonder why LGBT people are so vigilent about our rights in this world and country.

Well, this is why folks. This is why all the long winded hair splitting excuses for those who denigrate LGBT people are so offensive. This is why. You can stop wondering. Turing was destroyed by our side, the 'good guys' while in Germany LGBT people were murdered in mass and put in camps. For us, no good guys.

[cwydro]

17. ...

[closeupready]

30. Many who claim to be 'straight' but are, in truth, bi, diminish gay people

by refusing to recognize that for gay people, our romantic leanings are EXCLUSIVELY towards our own gender. We know what vagina is, what it looks like, and we don't want it. End of story. And the same applies to lesbian women who know what phalluses are and know they don't want one anywhere near them.

Yet, people like Huckabee or those douchebags in Focus on the Family continue to claim we can be converted.

Look at Turing's persecutors, and I'd bet you dollars to donuts they shared much in common with people like Huckabee.

[Behind the Aegis]

42. So very true.

Too many are under the assumption things are getting better, therefore, all is well with the world. As of today, there are 10 countries where gay men (one country includes lesbians) can be executed for simply being gay. Add to that more than 60 countries where gays and lesbians and transsexuals face fines or imprisonment, not to mention the systematic and societal abuses. Where supposedly modern countries are backsliding in regards to LGBT rights (India and Russia). Then there is also this truth from the aftermath of the Holocaust:

The liberation of the camps didn't have the same meaning for gay men. Many were simply moved to German prisons to serve out their sentences from their prosecutions under Paragraph 175. Some were given "time served" shorter sentences or reprieves. Those who didn't go directly to jail, faced discrimination because their families were "shamed" by having a "homosexual" in the family. While others received compensation for loss of money and property, gay men didn't get any reparations. It would 54 years (1999) before the first memorials of the Holocaust included gay men!! But it was the dawn of the 21st century (2000), before the German government officially apologized for the persecution of gay men after the liberation of the camps and acknowledged the devastation brought down on gay men in during the Holocaust.

They Wore Pink Triangles: Gay Victims of the Holocaust[/link

Homophobia and heterosexism may not be as rampant or obvious as in years past, but it is still way more abundant than many are willing (able?) to believe.

[marym625]

90. was your post that made me post this

We can still be fired for being LGBT in many States. That's the only reason they need. I haven't been to a Crackle Barrell since the 1990s because of their firing of anyone they even suspected was gay back then. And they fought it court as far as the Supreme Court (might have been the federal district court but I think it was SCOTUS) and won.

[Behind the Aegis]

94. Oklahoma is one of them.

It has been a real issue when the marriage was finally allowed here last October. There were many afraid to get married because if they did, it would be officially on the record and therefore, give "legitimate" cause to fire someone from their job or even remove them from their home (renters can be thrown out for being gay).

I remember the Cracker Barrel crap! They would actually throw gay people out of the restaurant. I was going on a cruise with my grandparents and we stopped at a CB to eat (I wasn't out to them). I was so scared what would happen. Thankfully, they were too busy, so we went somewhere else. Of course, during the course of the cruise, my grandmother told me she and my grandfather "knew" and loved me unconditionally. I told her about my fear about CB. Her response? "Thank goodness we didn't eat there. If something had happened...Jack (my grandfather) has his gun; it wouldn't have been pretty!" LOL!

[marym625]

95. awe!

So sweet that they accepted you like that. That's wonderful.

My boss, an attorney, asked me just the other day, when I was telling him about yet another person fired from a teaching position at a Catholic school after he married the man he had been living with for 40 years, "why didn't he fight it?" He didn't even know that we're not a protected class in most States. He gives to the HRC every month. His step daughter just married her long time girl friend. Yet he didn't know.

It's amazing how many people just assume things are as they should be.

That Cracker Barrell stuff was horrible. I'm amazed anyone with a conscience goes there

[marym625]

89. Yep.

We're not going to be treated equally ever I don't think. Maybe in law, one day. But there will always be a stigma for some people.

[Orsino]

19. They jailed him, subjected him to medical experiments, and killed him.

He was probably still glad that Hitler lost.

[shenmue]

29. "He's the reason English people aren't speaking German right now."

- Jim Ward, on the Stephanie Miller Show.

[marym625]

83. +1000

[marym625]

91. It was in great part because of him

That Hitler lost.

[jen1980]

27. This is the future Republicans want for us all.

Us all!

[uponit7771]

40. +1

[marym625]

82. +1000

[Zorra]

33. If the political and religious right gets their way, this will become standard practice everywhere.

Fact.

Stop the hate before it stops you.

[marym625]

84. so true! Thank you

[cwydro]

104. Loved the movie

What a great guy!

[WillyT]

63. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[marym625]

85. Thank you, Willy.

[Ilsa]

76. Fantastic movie.

Horribly sad ending for a brilliant man.

[marym625]

86. from what I have read now, I think he was murdered.

[Terra Alta]

107. K&R

A great life gone too soon. May he rest in peace.

[marym625]

109. +1000