California Father Asks School To Bar Unvaccinated Children

[RandySF]

Rhett cannot be vaccinated, because his immune system is still rebuilding. It may be months more before his body is healthy enough to get all his immunizations. Until then, he depends on everyone around him for protection — what's known as herd immunity.

But Rhett lives in Marin County, Calif., a county with the dubious honor of having the highest rate of "personal belief exemptions" in the Bay Area and among the highest in the state. This school year, 6.45 percent of children in Marin have a personal belief exemption, which allows parents to lawfully send their children to school unvaccinated against communicable diseases like measles, polio, whooping cough and more.

Krawitt is taking action of his own. His son attends Reed Elementary in Tiburon, a school with a 7 percent personal belief exemption rate. (The statewide average is 2.5 percent). Krawitt had previously worked with the school nurse to make sure that all the children in his son's class were fully vaccinated. He said the school was very helpful and accommodating.

Now Krawitt and his wife, Jodi, have emailed the district's superintendent, requesting that the district "require immunization as a condition of attendance, with the only exception being those who cannot medically be vaccinated."


http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/01/27/381888697/to-protect-his-son-a-father-asks-school-to-bar-unvaccinated-children

[NuclearDem]

1. How on earth is this not already policy there?

[RandySF]

2. I don't know.

I'm lobbying my Assemblyman and State Senator to get rid of the waiver statewide.

[xmas74]

3. In our school district

we have some with a personal belief waiver of sorts. (Different state but same idea.) This happens because the parents can claim that it goes against their religious beliefs to have their children vaccinated. That's how they get away with it.

[AtheistCrusader]

13. Religion doesn't know shit about vaccines.

The Abrahamic faiths pre-date GERM THEORY. They can't claim to have 'religious beliefs' about it, because their religions are fully unaware of the possibility.

[jeff47]

56. There's a sect of Christianity that forbids all medical care.

I forget which one. That group can claim their religion forbids vaccines.

[AtheistCrusader]

77. Self-solving problem.

[jeff47]

78. No, they live long enough to reproduce. (nt)

[GreatGazoo]

67. 3% of children immunized never develop resistance

They are injected with live virus twice but their bodies don't respond.

So you could have 100% verified immunized children in that school and still have 3% without immunity, each of whom would be a potential infector of the remaining 3%ers.

Would the 3% then be excluded from public schools also?

[NuclearDem]

72. This may be some good reading for you:

Herd immunity.

[GreatGazoo]

74. Doesn't answer my question to you which is:

If you are going to exclude unvaccinated kids, what would you then do with the 3% who have no immunity even after vaccination?

[NuclearDem]

75. Yes it does.

The 3% who don't develop immunity are protected by the 97% who do by virtue of herd immunity, so there's absolutely no reason to exclude them.

[procon]

4. That WAS the policy in California

I remember once when my DIL came home with children because the school would not let them in class until she brought in a current vax record from the doctor. She had forgotten and thought she could drop them off at school, go pick up the needed papers and hand it in when she returned to take the boys home.

I don't even know when it changed. How did the crazy views of these anti-vaxers trump common sense to put everyone else's kids at risk? Even my vet has warnings posted for puppy owners to avoid contact with other dogs until their pet is fully vaccinated.

[JDPriestly]

12. In LA, way back when. @e came from Europe where my children were vaccinated.

I had their European records in little books that were issued for them. Still, we had to redo the vaccinations here before they entered school. The children in the Marin school are getting exemptions from the vaccinations. It's really foolish for parents to do that.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

5. It's time to clamp down. Let the freaks keep their kids home.

[gopiscrap]

16. I totally agree

and there should be red quarantine tape across their front doors.

[Blecht]

6. Anti-vaxers are the stupidest people on the planet

They should be shamed and shunned, and the rest of us need to be protected from them. If they want to refuse vaccinations for no reason other than their stupidity, they need to be separated from those who have the ability to think.

[cstanleytech]

11. No, that honor belongs to the people who are members of the tea/republican

parties.

[ND-Dem]

18. Marin County = rich, liberal. In 2012 it went 74% for Obama.

Marin County is well known for its natural beauty, liberal politics, and affluence. In May 2009, Marin County had the fifth highest income per capita in the United States at about $91,480.[4] The county is governed by the Marin County Board of Supervisors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_County,_California#Politics

[upaloopa]

76. I really like Marin. Especially in the fall and

spring. Cross the Golden Gate and visit all the towns going north. I feel comfortable with the people there. If I ever win the lotto I may move there.

[ND-Dem]

17. yeah, those rich people in marin county are really stupid and uneducated.

[Blecht]

19. Rich does not equal smart

Having money has nothing to do with intelligence.

[ND-Dem]

20. It's associated with schooling, however. Typically the rich have more higher education than the

poor. And typically, the more schooling, the better you score on intelligence tests. So there's correlation.

"Anti-vaxxers" are typically well-off and well ready.

[jeff47]

22. And if intelligence tests actually measured intelligence, you might have a point.

Intelligence tests measure the ability to take intelligence tests. Being smarter helps with that, but doing well on the test doesn't mean you are smarter.

[ND-Dem]

28. high scores on intelligence tests, like high income, is associated with more education though.

point is, the 'anti-vaxxers' aren't the uneducated troglodytes/scientific illiterates they're often made out to be at DU. Upper-middle class, college-educated is more the profile.

[Jakes Progress]

31. But it doesn't mean "smart"

I've worked with a number of PhDs. I've worked with those who barely finished (or not) high school. Level of education has mostly to do with level of income of parents and expectations. There are smart people in both groups. There are idiots in both groups. Same ratio.

Anyone who still falls for the anti-vaxxer shit, is indeed a troglodyte and is scientifically ignorant. Trust me - college educated does not equal smart.

[jeff47]

39. More letters after one's name does not mean they're smarter.

I got my degree in microbiology. I had brilliant classmates who went on to be MDs. I also tutored some idiots who couldn't understand some of the most basic concepts of biology. They also have an MD after their name now.

A degree does not necessarily demonstrate that they are smart. It demonstrates that they are capable of getting a degree.

Anti-vaxxers are people who have fallen for an obvious scam by people out to take their money.

Anti-vaxxers also continue to take their children to doctors who want to give their children vaccines. Which means they are continuing to take their children to a doctor that they believe wants to harm their children. Yet they don't put those two things together.

Those demonstrates they aren't exactly making intelligent decisions.

[joeglow3]

44. The fact that they are anti-vaxxers makes them uneducated troglodytes/scientific illiterates

I don't care how well they may have done on some tests, they are uneducated troglodytes/scientific illiterates

[Blecht]

29. The fact that they are "anti-vaxxers" by definition makes them stupid

And if they are well-educated, it makes it worse, because they should know better.
In spite of all that money and education, they still made a stupid decision, which makes them really, really stupid.

[gcomeau]

32. On THIS topic?

Yes, they're absolute morons.

[seldomseensmith]

64. Not stupid and uneducated, mendacious and unethical.

In my experience it is often true that the anti-vaxxer, among other things, is of the prissy, angelic type for whom the trivial concerns of the "little people" pale before an almost criminally insane sense of entitlement.

As with all drugs, vaccines can produce really nasty things like anaphylaxis in people who are susceptible to the drug itself or one of the chemical compounds used to deliver it. In exchange for that, we get "herd immunity" to things like whooping cough and polio.

That being said, let us consider then what sort of snivelling, souless coward you would have to be to acknowledge all these risks and insist that everyone else pay the price of a very small risk of complications while you yourself benefitted from the immunities of the mass. It would be even worse if, say, your benefitting from the sacrifices of "ordinary" people actually increased the chances of the "herd immunity" failing and causing the return of potentially fatal diseases we would have permanently vanquished were it not for the the willful ignorance of the entitled.

As awful as it is to consider I'm beginning to believe that old amish practice of "shunning" might have a legitimate application here.

[gcomeau]

26. You appear unaware of the stiff competition in that award category.

Yes, they're stupidity pros... but keep in mind they're up against Creationists. And Tea Partiers.


Tough call who the trophy goes to. I don't envy the judges.

[Blecht]

30. Let's just call it a multi-way tie :-) nt

[bluestateguy]

7. The Hobby Lobby case made these bullshit conscience exemptions possible

nt

[XemaSab]

9. This was the case way before Hobby Lobby

When I went to university 10 years ago I didn't have my immunization records and so I pleaded "conscience exemption" even though I knew full well that I was 100% vaccinated. I signed a piece of paper, they told me that if there was a measles outbreak I'd have to stay home, and that was it.

I support the right of people to not vaccinate, but I also support the right of the public school system to tell people to keep their germy little sprogs at home so they don't infect the rest of us.

[onecaliberal]

8. There are several cases in Fresno now as well.

[Starry Messenger]

10. Sounds good to me.

I'm tired of special snowflakes in public education.

[SunSeeker]

14. I totally agree with that poor father.

I hope his little boy stays healthy.

Medical reasons, like that little boy who just had chemo, should be the only reason a kid should be allowed in public school unvaccinated.

[freshwest]

15. This is a dire situation for that child. Got a couple of questions:

Would a face mask help at school until proven they're all vaxxed?

Or in public places other than schools?

He could be at risk in stores, etc., as some kids may be homeschooled and will never be vaxxed.

That is another result of destroying public schools, no regulations.

Protecting will require more than just changing school policy.

Think about it...

[jeff47]

23. No.

Would a face mask help at school until proven they're all vaxxed?

No. Face masks help keep you from spreading germs. They do almost nothing to protect you from germs others have spread.

You'd need something that looked more like chemical weapons gear to actually prevent exposure to germs.

As for stores, etc., the father has the option to not take the kid. Forcing the kid into home schooling is far more invasive and probably impractical.

[mythology]

51. Maybe put the masks on the kids who aren't vaccinated?

It might help these parents make the correct decision if their kids had to bear a daily burden for the stupidity of the parents who won't vaccinate.

[jeff47]

57. Vaccines have failure rates.

The measles part of the MMR vaccine has a failure rate of about 2%.

When you have a nearly-fully vaccinated population, that doesn't matter. That 2% will be protected by herd immunity.

If facemasks are your solution, they'd have to go on all the kids unless you perform some expensive tests that demonstrate the vaccine successfully created immunity.

Not to mention, anti-vaxxers are very unlikely to be willing to agree to any inconvenience to protect this child. They've already put their own children at risk of dying from a preventable disease. There's no way they'd accept a mask to protect someone else's child.

[markbark]

21. Peanut butter?

I'll bet the school has a prohibition on sending PBJ with your kid's lunch because there might be a kid with a peanut allergy.
Sending unvaxed kids in might be bringing measles (or worse) to school. What's the diff?

http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Jenny_McCarthy_Body_Count/Anti-Vaccine_History.html

[Orrex]

24. K/R

[MoonRiver]

25. I'm not allowed to board my dog without a record of her current vaccinations.

is wrong with school districts??? I doubt the veterinarian would accept an excuse of religious blablabla.

[Ykcutnek]

27. Or put the whole family in stockades and have sick people

cough and sneeze on them until the gene pool is cleansed.

[NuclearDem]

37. I do sincerely hope you're kidding with this.

[marlakay]

33. I am from Bay Area

Back when my kids were in school in the mid 80's and up you couldn't put them in Kindergarten unless they were vaccinated.

Obviously rules have changed.

[dilby]

34. Why not just keep the kid home.

If I was the kids parent I would home school him till he could be vaccinated since it looks like it will just be months till that point. Missing a little kindergarten is not going to be the end of the world for the kid and as a parent its safer than hoping other parents do the right thing.

[freshwest]

38. That would be safest. Too many variables that this won't solve.

The unvaxxed kids aren't just at the school. I asked above if there was some measure to keep the kid safe in public, as IDK how one gets measles, just seemed to be from being in the proximity of those infected, maybe airborne.

[dilby]

43. Yeah, I would just keep the kid home till he can be vaccinated.

If that was my kid I would do anything to keep him safe and the biggest thing to keep him safe is keeping him away from the public.

[jeff47]

40. Requires a parent who can stay home with the kid. Also known as "money".

And while that may have been an option for you, it isn't an option for everyone.

[dilby]

42. They figured it out for the first 5 years of his life.

I mean he may of been in preschool previously but it was a half day, just like it's a half day for his kindergarten class.

[jeff47]

46. And?

I can do a lot of things for 5 years that I can not do for 18 years.

If other children were threatening your kid with knives at school, would your response be "Oh, I should just remove him from school so they can have their knives", or "The school should not allow kids to bring weapons to class"?

[dilby]

48. Article says kid can't get vaccinated for a couple months.

We are not talking 18 years here, just till his immune system is up in a month or two.

[jeff47]

49. A couple months at the earliest. He may never get vaccinated. (nt)

[dilby]

52. If he never gets vaccinated it's because his parents are drinking the same coolaid

as the anti-vaxxers, only they are using his cancer as an excuse. Once the kid has his immune system back, which he will, he is eligible to vaccinated.

[jeff47]

54. He may not get his immune system back.

Once the kid has his immune system back, which he will

Nope. He may not. Or at least not in a sufficiently healthy state for vaccines to be safe.

[dilby]

60. So his doctor is lying by saying he can get it in a couple months?

The reason he can't get it is he just came out of chemo, which destroyed his immune system. His immune system will return and if he needs another round of chemo they can wait till after he has had his vaccinations.

[jeff47]

61. His doctor is saying he may get it in a couple months, but that will depend on test results.

His immune system might come back just fine. It might not.

More to the point, we have parents putting their own children at risk, as well as the children of other people at risk, due to the claims of charlatans trying to defraud those parents.

We really shouldn't be spending any time trying to work out how the anti-vaxxers can continue their stupidity through making this family do more work.

[dilby]

63. The anti-vaxxers are not going away, ever.

You will have those who don't do it for health reasons, medical reasons, religious reasons, cost reasons and every other reason out there. Your best bet is to vaccinate your kids and not worry about those who are not getting them because they don't want cancer, or because they think their immune system is too sensitive for them.

[jeff47]

65. Except the reasons you cite are wrong.

Health/medical and religious reasons are a tiny minority. They've always been present. And their numbers are small enough that herd immunity still works, and protects them.

Cost reasons are handled by the vaccines being free, thanks to the ACA, SCHIP and similar programs.

And even if your child is healthy and has been vaccinated, you still have to worry about the anti-vaxxers. Vaccines have failure rates. The failure rate of the measles part of the MMR is about 2%. Herd immunity normally covers that 2% too, but anti-vaxxers have destroyed herd immunity.

You could get your child every vaccine they are supposed to have, and your kid can still get sick thanks to anti-vaxxers.

[dilby]

66. Then my kid gets sick.

I have better things to do than hold a sign outside of Jenny McCarthy's house.

[jeff47]

68. And if they die, you gonna still have better things to do?

We aren't immunizing against these diseases for entertainment value. There is a real danger from all of them.

It's just been long enough since the vaccines were developed that current parents have no experience with these diseases. None of their classmates died or were permanently harmed by them, so anti-vaxx bullshit has a chance.

[BlueJazz]

41. That was my first thought. Just home-school him until he's able to take the shots.

What's the big deal?

[dilby]

45. I am guessing dad has a crusade now.

My daughter is deathly allergic to peanuts, EpiPen and shit. Anyways when she started school in the first grade (she was home schooled till then) I talked to the teachers about what they do about peanut allergies. It was a real simple setup, kids are not allowed to share lunches, peanut allergy children sit at their own table in the cafeteria, other kids can sit with them but a teacher checks their lunches for peanuts before they can sit. I was cool with it, we had already ingrained in my daughter to not eat anything given to her until and adult read the label and confirmed to her no peanuts. This worked fine for me then another parent shows up when my daughter was in 4th grade and went on this Anti-peanut crusade where they wanted all peanuts out of the school for fear her little snow flake would die. It did not work and her kid never died.

[jeff47]

47. He may never be able to take the shots.

And it's good to know you can afford to be a stay-at-home parent.

If the other kids were bringing knives to class and threatening his child, is the appropriate response to "just homeschool"? Or perhaps the appropriate response is to ask the school to keep weapons out of the classroom.

These diseases are biological weapons - we used them as such. You are claiming the father is in the wrong for not wanting those weapons in his son's classroom.

[BlueJazz]

53. His child should not be in school. With all due respect, I believe you and many others forget that..

...schools are "invaded" every day by Janitors, maintenance people repairing stuff, food suppliers, office suppliers and probably a lot more that I can't think of. I'm thinking of the child's safety not the inconvenience of the situation.

IF it were up to me, the parents could have financial help in keeping the boy home. His case is very special.

"You are claiming the father is in the wrong for not wanting those weapons in his son's classroom."

No..I don't trust people to adhere to the rules as far as letting the classroom be virus-free.
My post may have seemed callous but my thought is for the kid.

[jeff47]

55. Those invaders are also required to be vaccinated

or got vaccines when they were children.

You're working very hard to make anti-vaxxers the good guys, and the father of a leukemia patent evil.

[BlueJazz]

69. You're certainly welcome to think that. Anti-vaxxers are the uninformed and the father wants..

...to risk his son's life on the assumption that somebody other than children have had all the required shots.
I don't have a child and I wouldn't do it. (send him to school)...until a doctor says it's safe.

I'm firm about this subject unless somebody convinces me otherwise.

[jeff47]

70. Again, those shots are required by all those others.

Teachers are required to be vaccinated, for example.

I'm firm about this subject unless somebody convinces me otherwise.

Yes, god forbid you have to reconsider due to not knowing about the requirements of those evil demons they let into classrooms.

[BlueJazz]

73. jeff47 Please quit saying "Teachers are required to be vaccinated" I KNOW that.

I don't trust the people that deliver all the stuff that comes into the building. As I said: A good percentage of people that serve your food don't even wash their hands and I doubt all the people that come into the building are any better.

[NuclearDem]

62. It isn't his family's fault a bunch of idiots refuse to vaccinate their kids.

Had they been vaccinated, this wouldn't even be an issue, since the boy would be protected from the diseases by virtue of herd immunity.

The only people that should be inconvenienced by this are the anti-vaxx idiots, not the family battling leukemia.

[BlueJazz]

71. "The only people that should be inconvenienced by this are the anti-vaxx idiots"

Feel the same.
Look...you can't even get people to wash their hands and follow sanitary procedures in a place that serves food.
I would certainly not trust the adults that enter a school...and base that trust assumption on my child's life.

As I said before in this thread, the people should get help (personal and money) to home school him until it's safe..

[NuclearDem]

36. Come on LG, you can do better than NattieNews.

[redstatebluegirl]

59. We ran a summer camp last summer and asked the question.

We got significant blow back from the religious home schoolers. They said we used it as a way to hate Christians. Really? No we are just scientists who believe that vaccinating your kids is what is is best for them and society. Sorry....

[JI7]

80. how embarrassing is that. these are liberal areas

It's not just the right wing that can be anti science