Russia to the rescue?

[another_liberal]

Last edited Fri Jan 30, 2015, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)

The Russian Federation is offering to loan Greece the cash it needs to hold off international creditors and prevent yet worse "austerity" as demanded by the European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund. This injection of Russian money could halt some long feared actions, such as wholesale sell-off of properties owned by the Greek government. "But how can Russia afford that," one may ask, "aren't the Russians broke because of our sanctions?" No, actually they are nothing of the sort; in fact, the Russian government still holds one of the largest reserves of foreign currency in the World. It's everyone else in Europe who is suffering losses due to anti-Russian sanctions.

Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov. (RIA Novosti)


Russia might bailout Greece – finance minister


Greece hasn’t outright asked Russia for a loan, but Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said Moscow wouldn't rule it out. His statement comes days after Greece openly opposed further economic sanctions against Russia.

"Well, we can imagine any situation, so if such [a] petition is submitted to the Russian government, we will definitely consider it, but we will take into account all the factors of our bilateral relationships between Russia and Greece, so that is all I can say. If it is submitted we will consider it," Siluanov told CNBC in an interview in Moscow on Thursday.

The new left-wing Syriza government in Greece won a majority at last Sunday’s election on the promise to renegotiate the country’s €317 billion debt and end austerity. Greece needs to negotiate with EU policymakers by February 28 in order to receive the next tranche of bailout funds. If Athens doesn’t get the money it will have difficulty servicing its debt. Two bailouts were paid in 2010 and 2014 totaling €240 billion. The new government was quick to show support for Moscow, and has openly called for an end to Russian sanctions, and may veto any future sanctions.

Siluanov applauded Greece’s stance on sanctions as “pragmatic” and “economically justified.” On Thursday the European Commission decided to extend sanctions against Russia through September 2015, but did not add any broader economic measures. A spokesperson for the new PM Alexis Tsipras said Greece didn’t approve of any further restrictive measures. Between announcing it doesn’t intend to pay off its €317 billion debt in full and blocking Russia sanctions, Greece has emerged as a wild card among the 29 countries of the EU.

(snip)


Read more at: http://rt.com/business/227751-russia-greece-financial-aid/

Update:

Greece won’t cooperate with ‘troika,’ rejects aid extension


The new left-wing Greek government has said that it will not cooperate with the ‘troika’ of international lenders, and does not plan to seek an extension for its aid package which is set to expire at the end of February.

Without the aid, Greek banks could face being shut off from European Central Bank funding.

“This position enabled us to win the trust of the Greek people,” Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis said Friday during a joint press conference with Jeroen Dijsselbloem, head of the eurozone finance ministers’ group.

The meeting between Varoufakis and Dijsselbloem is to lay the groundwork for visits by newly-elected Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and the finance minister to London, Paris, and Rome next week. The new Greek leadership has voiced its intention to attempt to loosen the terms of the massive €240 billion (US$271 billion) bailout.

Read more at: http://rt.com/news/228031-greece-troika-varoufakis-bailout/

[Adrahil]

1. Who didn't see THAT coming.

Another chance for Russia to drive a wedge between EU nations, and have another state under their thumb?

Oh yeah....they are "rescuing" them. There will be many strings....

[another_liberal]

4. Greece may prefer to be in debt to Russia . . .

Since they have already have spent five years "under" the European Union's "thumb," perhaps they see the alternative as a less damaging course for their austerity battered nation?

After all, Russia was offering far more lenient terms to the Ukrainian government before our State Department organized President Yanukovich's overthrow and precluded such a funding option.

[myohmy2]

13. ....you're right....

....what has Greece got to lose, but the yoke of European corporate domination....

....let Greece go back to printing their own currency and let the new bi-polar world continue....

[another_liberal]

23. Do you really want a Uni-polar World . . .

With our mega-bankers and energy barons being the overlords of everything? That does not appeal to me.

[Adrahil]

38. Me neither...

But having another pole lead by a kleptocracy of Oligarchs isn't an improvement, IMO. Especially not one willing to do what they are doing to their former imperial possessions.

I understand your resistance to the finance-centric west. I do NOT understand your support of an even MORE corrupt east.

And don't say you don't support them. Your actions here speak to your sympathies.

[Cayenne]

58. Which kleptocracy of Oligarchs?

[Adrahil]

93. Both, really.

It's not that I think 'Murica is the bestest in the world.

But Russia is at least as bad, and IMO, far worse. To sort of prop it up as a just counterweight to the evil West is just disingenuous.

[Art_from_Ark]

32. There might also be a special place in Russia's heart for Greece,

since the Cyrillic alphabet is based in large part on the Greek alphabet.

[Adrahil]

37. You mean, subverting their own sovreignty?

Agreeing to restrictions on who they can and can't have trade deals with? And so forth?

Yes, the velvet fist of Putin will be so much better.

We'll see how this works out for them the first time they dare to counteract what their new master demands of them.


Having said that, I think the EU had better play its cards right here. Austerity has not proven to be effective. It's an intellectually bankrupt economic plan.

[oberliner]

2. More BS propaganda from Russia Today

I can't believe that site is taken seriously by anyone here.

It is the Fox News of Russia, to put it kindly.

[another_liberal]

5. Please limit your comments to the topic of the OP . . .

Or write your own. Thanks.

[FBaggins]

8. That IS the topic of the OP

You post Russian propaganda... the topic of the thread is the fact that you've (again) posted Russian propaganda.

But I will disagree with oberliner...

They're worse than Fox.

[malaise]

12. Really?

Name one thing Fox has been correct on?

[FBaggins]

29. There's a clear difference between political bias

and being the propaganda arm of a foreign government.

The President can't just call up Fox and ask them to run a story that they know to be false... Putin can do that.

[Art_from_Ark]

36. The previous (mis)administration

certainly seemed to have no problems getting news organizations to run a story they knew was false.

Yellow cake and weapons of mass destruction, anyone?

[FBaggins]

40. And that highlights the difference

They have a political affiliation, not direct ownership by the government.

[malaise]

45. Guess that's why we were lied into an illegal war

Guess that's why CBS fired Dan Rather - who fired Maher again?

FFS - they all manufacture consent - they all control the media.
They all have their intelligence agencies all over all media.

[JonLP24]

77. Russia Today, if anything, has a liberal bias

I have watched hours of coverage and the tell the truth about America that a lot of the corporate media doesn't.

[AverageJoe90]

83. I'm sorry, but are you serious, Jon?

Russia Today may be perfectly fine with bashing U.S. corruption, but they're loath to talk about their own right-wing at home, namely Putin's United Russia party......

[JonLP24]

84. Here is the way I look at it

There are so many news & sources out there. The EU & its Western Allies are against Russia in this Ukranian civil war. All these allegations against Russia Today come from Western state department officials & very little of what they is substantiated. In fact, they don't even point to examples. There is an information war going on but contrary to Hillary Clinton's claims, the west isn't losing it judging by the lack of understanding by the knee jerk hatred going on.

I always verify with multiple sources, if there is a lone wolf claiming this is going on that isn't backed up I reject it. Russia Today does serve a purpose in what is their perception? How do they see things, being lined up against by the EU, IMF, & Western allies. Though when it comes to this conflict, I stay away from sourcing RT since it will be distracted & you can easily find other sources backing up specific claims. But it helps to see their perception when so many people are lining up & discrediting them.

[zappaman]

48. The other day this happened...

“You celebrities did not go to medical school!”: Fox News medical correspondent chides anti-vaxxers

http://www.salon.com/2015/01/22/you_celebrities_did_not_go_to_medical_school_fox_news_medical_correspondent_chides_anti_vaxxers/

So, I guess that's one thing...

[Cha]

18. Both rw propaganda.. RT is a putin state propaganda outlet and fox "news" is a US anti-Democratic

Rupert Murdoch owned outlet.

LOL.. one thing they have in common.. they both hate President Obama.

FBaggins

[FBaggins]

33. Foreign Affairs don't lend themselves as easily to right/left comparisons

In this case, for instance, Russia is supporting a government well to the left of ours. That's hardly "rw" with the US political range.

[JonLP24]

79. They certainly aren't RW propagnada

[oberliner]

9. The OP is from a Russian government propaganda outlet

It is important for anyone reading the article to be fully aware of that - in case they might not be familiar with "RT".

This source regularly makes excuses for Russia (especially vis-a-vis Ukraine) and for Putin, in particular.

This is their usual "hooray for Russia" nonsense and should be treated as such.

[another_liberal]

15. You are not required to read my OPs . . .

Nor are you required to reply to them.

If you do, however, please address any such replies to the topic offered. Thanks again.

[LanternWaste]

24. Posters may respond to an OPs as each poster sees fit to

Posters may respond to an OPs as each poster sees fit to. If you have a problem with comments that don't validate a bias, you may wish to alert on it, or (as you said) simply not respond to them.

Thanks again...

[mythology]

41. Likewise people aren't banned from mocking RT just because it hurts your feelings

It's not a valid news source and yet you treat it as if it came down the mountain carved in stone.

This isn't Russia where disagreeing with your hero Putin will result in somebody being jailed or killed.

[aquart]

55. So it tells you that Putin is offering to help Greece

And it only prints what Putin okays?

Sounds like a source for Putin's plays.

[FBaggins]

44. Lol again!

It's obvious why you would want readers to just accept the propaganda without question and restrict their replies to those that assume that the claims are unbiased and accurate...

What's missing is why anyone should listen to such ridiculous demands.

Here's a hint for the next time: The validity of a source is always in order.

[HERVEPA]

60. The poster can write anything he or she damn well pleases. You don't have control.

You're not in Russia.

[love_me_some_pickles]

53. A it seems is the poster.

This poster seems only to post pro Russian articles, Mostly from Russia Today, which is the even more evil equivalent to Faux Noise.
One should be skeptical of anything posted from Russia Today, or another liberal.

[uppityperson]

57. you made it to 5 before starting up again. See, it is possible to be civil, too bad

it happens so rarely. How's the snow, or were you in that heat wave?

[snooper2]

43. It is a discussion board sometimes a thread just goes off on tangents...it'll be okay, Putin does it

Hey, did you ever see this Putin greatness LOL

[HERVEPA]

59. Why the fuck fo you always try to order people as to what they should write?

You don't own the thread.
Doesn't matter if you say пожалуйста

[nilesobek]

80. I don't understand why this continues.

Multiple posters point out that RT is a propaganda arm of the Russian Government.

Other posters thoughtfully point out that CBS, NBC, ABC, and FOX are merely propaganda arms of the American government.

Its being used as a tactic to disrupt threads. I have no more respect for Western news organizations than for Eastern ones.

It might set off some dopamine sector of the brain to make such repeated posts with graphics, multiple smiley faces, and the ritual of killing the messenger. Like gambling, drinking and drug abuse does.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. Actually, the made-up part comes from the DUer, who mischaracterises what RT wrote

another_liberal:

"The Russian Federation is offering to loan Greece the cash it needs to hold off international creditors and prevent yet worse "austerity" as demanded by the European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund. "

RT:

"Greece hasn’t outright asked Russia for a loan, but Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said Moscow wouldn't rule it out. "

Russian finance minister:

"Well, we can imagine any situation, so if such [a] petition is submitted to the Russian government, we will definitely consider it, but we will take into account all the factors of our bilateral relationships between Russia and Greece, so that is all I can say. If it is submitted we will consider it"

RT hasn't really pushed it much further than what the minister said. The false part is the "is offering to loan" bit that another_liberal wrote. He said they'd consider it, not that they will do it.

[another_liberal]

50. I mis-characterized nothing . . .

Let me refer you to the title of the article in my OP:

Russia might bailout Greece – finance minister.

That would be the Russian Federation Finance Minister, by the way.

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. Are you aware of the difference between 'might' and 'is offering'?

This is basic English that has been pointed out to you, and you still can't understand it. Or choose to pretend you don't understand.

[another_liberal]

65. An "offering" is always conditional . . .

Just as a "might" is an "offering."

Do you have a point, other than a desire to indulge in semantic hair splitting?

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. So, you are unaware of the difference.

My point is that your paragraph is grossly misleading. The Russians have not offered a loan. You claim to not know the meaning of the word 'offer', or 'might', or perhaps it's even 'is' that you are unclear about. We are going to have to correct your English from now on, it seems.

[another_liberal]

69. Of course there is a difference, they are two different words . . .

The difference in meaning, given this context though, is not that great. I think you are making a mountain out of a semantic mole hill.

[Duckhunter935]

78. Well it is not in Russian nt

[aquart]

56. Would that be enough to moderate EU's demands?

[William769]

39. ...

[MattSh]

62. I can't believe people here on DU choose ignorance.

Who do you choose to believe? Choose wisely or you choose ignorance.

[SidDithers]

3. ...

Sid

[FBaggins]

6. Lol! "It's everyone else in Europe who is going broke"

Which... of course... is why the S&P just downgraded Russia's credit rating to "junk" status.

[another_liberal]

7. That was politically motivated, and would be a big deal . . .

Only if they needed to borrow our money. It clearly looks like they don't.

[FBaggins]

10. You obviously haven't been paying attention

They've had serious borrowing problems. Their bond auctions have failed multiple times as their borrowing costs reach new records.

[another_liberal]

14. Yet they are offering to bail out Greece?

Maybe someone is lying to you, or, at the very least, exaggerating greatly.

[NCTraveler]

19. Please show where they have offered to bail out Greece.

Also, why do you think a country in economic turmoil is in a position to bail out another country?

"Yet they are offering to bail out Greece?"

Please show the offer as you have stated has happened. It is not in your op.

[another_liberal]

25. I take it you have not yet read my OP . . .

Now might be a good time to do so.

[FSogol]

42. Translation: I take it you have not yet read the stuff I made up....

[another_liberal]

51. At least read the title of the article I quoted from . . .

(sigh)

[FSogol]

54. Why? It could read "FSogol might bailout Greece – finance minister" for all the likelihood

of that happening.

[another_liberal]

71. You have inside information for that prediction . . .

Or is it a strong "gut feeling?"

[FBaggins]

27. Why is that a conflict?

The EU bailed out Greece and they too have financial troubles.

Offering to bail out a MUCH smaller country is not evidence of financial strength.

[another_liberal]

30. If the sanctions are driving Russia into bankruptcy . . .

I'm sure they will soon be in touch with us, begging for mercy. If that happens we will all know it, though frankly, I wouldn't start holding my breath just yet.

[FBaggins]

34. What an overly-simplistc world you appear to live in

Last edited Fri Jan 30, 2015, 11:10 AM - Edit history (1)

So the only two possibilities are that Russia is rock-solid economically or will declare bankruptcy tomorrow, eh?

You might... for instance... compare the strength of the dollar to the rubble (pun intended) over the last few months.

[another_liberal]

49. You are putting those "overly-simplistic" words in my mouth . . .

I did not say any such thing.

No one knows how this economic warfare offensive will shake out in the end; however, to suggest Russia is currently being crippled by our economic sanctions is definitely what I would call "overly-simplistic."

[FBaggins]

61. Nope. The strawman was yours. Let me un-simplify it for you.

You were the one (along with the Russian propaganda) that defended their economic strength by measuring whether or not they were bankrupt (and the ridiculous claim that if they could lend money to Greece, they must be in good shape). I was responding to the claim in the article that it was everyone else in Europe that was suffering.

* Russia is cutting the bulk of their budget by 10% this year and 5% for the next two years
* Predictions for their GDP this year are in the negative 5-6% range... with another 2-3% loss in 2016. That's a severe recession.
* Making things much worse, they've had to boost borrowing rates astronomically (from 10% to 17% in just the last month or so) to defend their currency from further collapse... yet they can't figure out which fate is worse - cut the rate to avoid economic collapse (but see the rubble continue to fall apart), or support the rubble, and watch the economy crumble. Putin apparently stong-armed their (supposedly ind.) dentral bank into lowering the rate by 2% today.
* CBR is "encouraging" their banks to just accept (~40%) losses on their foreign-denominated mortgages and re-denominate them in rubbles... and not even at market rate.
* National debt cut to junk bond status, yet still has a negative ratings outlook
* The inflation outlook has climbed into the double digits

* And the one you obviously missed... they need to do something with their foreign currency reserves. The expectation was that the CBR would be selling dollars to help prop up the rubble... but there's no reason why they can't use it to impact foreign policy.

President Obama was correct. Russia's economy is "in tatters". Speculating that they might loan money to Greece doesn't change that at all. We can debate how much of it was poor policy on their part... how much was from sanctions... and how much was from OPEC oil moves (which may very well be part of the sanctions). What is beyond debate is that Russia's economy is in very bad shape right now.



?w=640

[another_liberal]

70. Like I have already said . . .

If the sanctions are truly bankrupting Russia, then undoubtedly they will soon come to us begging for mercy. I just don't believe that is likely to be the case.

[malaise]

11. ROFL

Here come the BRICS

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. I noticed nobody talks much about the BRICS

the saudis for one don't like the idea especially with their hands in the US banking system, whereas South America and some Asian countries are fightinng to get it started.


The US will pull out alll stops to damage the Bric.

[malaise]

17. +1,000

Note the timing of certain global events and the announcement of the alternative bank to the IMF.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/12/22/brics-new-development-bank-threatens-hegemony-of-u-s-dollar/
BRICS New Development Bank Threatens Hegemony Of U.S. Dollar
<snip>
At the 2014 BRICS summit in Fortaleza, Brazil, the committee announced its impatience with failed reform within the International Monetary Fund: “We remain disappointed and seriously concerned with the current non-implementation of the 2010 International Monetary Fund reforms, which negatively impacts on the IMF’s legitimacy, credibility and effectiveness.” Leaders of the emerging economies of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa (BRICS) have expressed the need for reform in the Bretton Woods institutions. Collectively, BRICS account for nearly $16 trillion in GDP and 40% of the world’s population. These countries have drafted amendments to the IMF’s voting policy and have yet to receive a sufficient number of votes. At the summit, Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff stated the BRICS nations “are among the largest in the world and cannot content themselves in the middle of the 21st century with any kind of dependency.” Last June, Sergey Glazyev, Vladimir Putin’s chief economic advisor, published an article outlining the need for an international anti-dollar alliance. He called upon allies to eliminate the dollar from international trade and trend toward depleting them from currency reserves. Recent dollar-less BRICS energy deals, currency swaps and foreign direct investment indicate that trend is taking place.

This year’s summit marks the establishment of a $100 billion dollar liquidity reserve and a $50 billion New Development Bank (NBD) in Shanghai. As each country acts to maximize its own utility, the emerging economies of the BRICS nations will create a paralleling international financial system ultimately challenging the hegemony of the current western-dominated system.

[newfie11]

21. Wars have been started for less

Let's hope cooler minds prevail. I Fear if the IMF feels threatened wars will happen.

[another_liberal]

28. They already do feel threatened . . .

And, as a consequence, war is happening.

[DetlefK]

20. Greece hasn't vowed to block the EU-sanctions on Russia.

They do support the sanctions. The new greek government is simply pissed that their support for the sanctions has been taken for granted without even asking them.

[another_liberal]

26. They did block the EU's imposition of any "New sanctions."

That was a very bold move in itself. We'll see what happens next.

[FLPanhandle]

31. Once they did that, it was obvious they had already worked out financing from Russia

You don't immediately piss off the same people you want to borrow more money from and renegociate existing loans.

Once Greece did that it was only 1 of 2 things:

1) They are very stupid; or

2) They had already lined up another source of money.


Now they can default on the EU debt while living off the new Russian/Chinese loans and exit the EU completely.

[another_liberal]

47. Sounds quite believable . . .

One thing is certain, if Syriza now decides to capitulate to the EU and international bankers by going back to austerity, they will not remain in power very long.

[DetlefK]

35. I have sources. Do you?

Greece's statement misinterpreted
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/29/us-ukraine-crisis-greece-idUSKBN0L214020150129

Greece supports sanctions but wants to delay decision
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/29/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKBN0L22B720150129
Excerpt:
"He (new greek foreign minister Nikos Kotzias) signed up to a sharply worded statement that declared Moscow responsible for the violence in eastern Ukraine and demanded it halt its backing for the separatists.

While the Greeks did call for the decision on tighter sanctions to be delayed, they were not alone: other countries such as Italy and Austria also favored a delay, diplomats said, while Britain and the Baltic states wanted a clearer commitment to imposing new sanctions quickly."

[another_liberal]

46. Yes, and I always give the address . . .

As for what Greece will ultimately do: I'll wait to see what the Greek government decides. They will make the decision, not a pack of bought-and-sold Western media issue experts.

[love_me_some_pickles]

52. Is Russia going to borrow the money to lend to Greece from

one of it's oligarchs? Russia has no money, flat -assed broke. Their criminal government has ceded all wealthy to Putin's friends and partners.

If I ran Greece, I'd sooner go to the Goti family for a loan. Better rates.

[another_liberal]

72. Last I heard, Russia has one of the largest foreign currency reserves in the World . . .

They can bail Greece out several times over and still have some left.

[love_me_some_pickles]

94. That is funny as hell!!!

Do you know any more?

[Arcanetrance]

64. Granted I'm not the most knowledgeable person on economic issues

But it doesn't seem like a good idea to me to take the position of trying to renegotiate debt and get out of austerity just to go to a different country and ask for money from another country with whatever strings attached they might add.

[another_liberal]

73. It would depend on the kind of deal they might get from Russia . . .

Moscow does badly need a friend in the EU right now. And they do have the money Greece so badly needs.

[DCBob]

66. They will be selling Stoli at the Parthenon.

The Greeks are in for a rough ride no matter what.

[another_liberal]

74. Not necessarily . . .

Russia needs a friend in Europe badly enough that they may just hand over the cash and tell Greece the first repayment will be due in five or ten years. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

68. They should definitely go for it. nt

[another_liberal]

75. Oh hell yes they should!

Anything's better than paying taxes to a gang of German bankers.

[TooPragmatic]

82. Not taxes, loans.

And it is not to German banks. Most of the debt is held by other EU governments so a Greek default would hit other countries.

Ps. Sorry that I'm not using RT as a source.




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11372369/Three-myths-about-Greeces-enormous-debt-mountain.html

[another_liberal]

85. "Taxes" as I'm using the term is a figure of speech . . .

Meant as a kind of shorthand for the fact that Greece's government has been taking from its people so it can pay the interest demanded by foreign bankers. The "tranches" of money Greece receives are immediately paid to those creditor banks. The IMF and EUCB only give Greece money so they can pay their creditors and keep them in the black. The Greek people are left with nothing but the debt and growing interest owed. Hence, it is like "Paying taxes to the German banks."

[TooPragmatic]

86. But they don't owe much to banks anymore

As in my previous comment, 3% of Greek debt is held by Greek banks, 1% by foreign banks. Most of the Creditors are other European countries and IMF and the ECB. If Greece defaults, it is out from other European citizens, not banks.

And ALL governments take from it's people to pay for interest. That is part of the social contract. And Greece uses money mainly on other things since it servicing costs on its debt is about 2.6% of GDP. If you want to respond to my comment, at least check the links I post.

[another_liberal]

87. The ECB is largely funded by major German banks . . .

Last edited Sat Jan 31, 2015, 02:07 PM - Edit history (2)

It was largely their money the ECB loaned to Greece, and they will lose as the ECB loses if Greece can't, or won't, make its repayments on time. It might be noted that the German banks bought a great many of the German and other EU government bonds which gave them means to contribute to the ECB.

[TooPragmatic]

88. No, still wrong...

ECB holds 6% of the Greek debt, the Euro-zone states own 60%. And the ECB gets it's money from natinonal central bank, Germany being the biggest but it is proportional to the size of each State.

And most of the debt is held through the EFSF which is a fund managed by the ECB, but the money is backed by each state. So if Greece doesn't pay, other European governments will largely suffer and thereby ALL European citizens will pay the bill with cuts or tax increases.

[another_liberal]

90. All governments may lose money . . .

But it is the bankers' money, invested in government bonds, that the governments will lose. The bankers' holdings of government bonds will be worth less, so it is still in large part the bankers' loss.

The bankers exposed to the most of such losses are German bankers, right?

[TooPragmatic]

91. Green default is not that big

The money lost if Greece defaulted wouldn't cause the same avalanche anymore as in 2010. The markets have prepared for the risk. The sums would harm other governments, but wouldn't lead to any defaults. Therefore there wouldn't be a big change in the bond markets.

[another_liberal]

92. If what you suggest is accurate . . .

Why are German bankers so upset at the prospect of Greek non-payment or even complete default? It seems like every news article I read on the subject references German bankers threatening dire consequences for Greece (or the whole Eurozone) if such things do come to pass. Isn't it reasonable to assume they must have something big at stake in the outcome? Is it just Teutonic cultural outrage at Southern European fiscal untidiness that I'm seeing?

[another_liberal]

81. There is a great deal to talk about, the subject is suddenly exciting!

I've seen in updates that the head of the euro zone finance ministers' group was visibly "enraged" by the Greek Finance Minister's refusal to obey EU dictates. This could force the Eurozone countries to take a long look at themselves, and at how much of their national independence and sovereignty they have delegated to a few financial technocrats.

[seveneyes]

89. Mother Russia

Punished for his written thoughts
Starving for his fame
Working blindly, building blocks
Number for a name his blood flows frozen to the snow

[another_liberal]

96. Russia is not an easy place to be a dissident . . .

Last edited Mon Feb 2, 2015, 07:54 PM - Edit history (1)

I've read many of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's works (English translations) including A Day In The Life of Ivan Denisovich, Cancer Ward, The First Circle, August, 1914 and The Gulag Archipelago (volumes One and Two). I do have some notion of what repression of dissenters means in that culture and of the cruelty it can involve.

[treestar]

95. I'll believe it when I see it

It's one thing to talk and another to do.