General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIn Sweden you get your child vaccinated to protect your community, not just your child.
More Americans aren't getting the vaccination that provides coverage for measles, mumps and German measles, also known as rubella. In some areas of California, 13 percent of young children haven't been immunized. Compare that with a place like Sweden, where vaccination coverage is estimated to include all but 5 percent of the entire population. That's because Swedes show up for all sorts of optional immunizations in droves, providing the sort of "herd immunity" that Americans can only envy.
Elizabeth Bruenig, a staff writer at The New Republic, says Swedes tend to approach vaccination campaigns very differently than Americans do. "When I think about my flu shot every year, and whether or not I really want to go through getting the needle in the arm, I'm generally thinking about my own health: Do I want to sick this year?" Bruenig says. "In Sweden, it's very common to think of vaccines as something that you do because you're going to be in contact with people who are vulnerable to illness. It's a way of protecting them."
Those vulnerable groups include the elderly, children who are too young to be vaccinated and the immuno-compromised such as people going through chemo-therapy, or those with HIV and AIDS. Others turn out to be at risk because the measles vaccine isn't 100 percent effective for everyone who receives it.
When Swedish parents think about getting their children immunized, they act because "it's something that we do where we all use our bodies sort of as human shields for people whose bodies just don't have the capacity to be vaccinated or to withstand these diseases."
http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-01-29/what-sweden-can-teach-america-about-measles-vaccinations
For Americans a flu shot is usually done to benefit oneself - to avoid getting the flu yourself. For Swedes is as much to protect those who cannot protect themselves - "the elderly, children who are too young to be vaccinated and the immuno-compromised such as people going through chemo-therapy, or those with HIV and AIDS."
I get a flu shot every year but, I have to admit, I am doing it for myself. Kind of being a typical American, I guess.
malthaussen
(18,373 posts)I wonder in which other countries this awareness is present.
-- Mal
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)We are just paying the price for a poor educational system.
dilby
(2,273 posts)If you talk to one you will probably learn that GMO foods will give you cancer, you should only put pure organic foods in your body that have never been treated with pesticides or chemicals. You need a super high end water filter so you don't get cancer and die. Don't use any type of plastic bottles or food containers because they may contain BPA which will kill you faster than cancer. You need an ionic air filter for your home and car and all sorts of other crazy shit. It comes down to the idea that chemicals are bad, immunizations are chemicals so they must be bad too. These people are usually overly educated and in higher income brackets at least all the anti-vaxxers I know are.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)In general, we're more about the individual than the collective. Not just because we're dumb either. It's the complexity of history.
no_hypocrisy
(54,123 posts)You didn't go to the pediatrician but rather, all children were invited to our town's high school gym where they would be given a sugar cube with polio vaccine on it. As a kid, you were made to feel important, that you cared about the community by taking this "medicine".
Aristus
(71,535 posts)We all took turns going behind a cloth screen where a medical staff member in a white smock handed me a paper cup with a pink sugar cube in it, and said: "Drink this." I did, thinking at the time that it seemed weird to call it 'drinking' when it was a solid.
GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)look good.
Canada, last year:
"It's an inescapable reality: As long as measles is infecting children in other parts of the world, Canada is going to have occasional outbreaks. The same is true in the United States, but public health officials there typically have managed to more quickly extinguish spread of the virus when it comes from abroad.
It's leaving some experts on this side of the border wondering: Why does Canada have such large measles outbreaks?
There have been at least 375 cases in the ongoing outbreak in British Columbia's Fraser Valley. An outbreak in Quebec in 2011 racked up a whopping 725 confirmed cases, following on a 2007 outbreak of 94 cases in that province. The Vancouver Olympics, which brought people to the city from around the world, touched off an outbreak of roughly 80 cases in B.C. in early 2010."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/measles-outbreaks-in-canada-outsize-u-s-1.2605628
Dutch 'Bible Belt' outbreaks:
"In 1999/2000, a measles epidemic struck the Bible belt and neighbouring regions, totalling just under 3300 cases, of which 94% were entirely unvaccinated, and only one patient had had both MMRs. 16% had complications, over 150 were hospitalised, and 3 patients died. Importantly No association was observed between preexisting illness and either reason for admission (P = 0.5) or residual symptoms at discharge (P = 0.5) contradicting the notion that measles are a generally "harmless" disease in "healthy" children.
More recently, in 2004/5, rubella (the "r" in the MMR) swept through in the Bible belt, also spreading to Canada. The consequences were devastating:
In The Netherlands and Canada, 387 and 309 rubella cases were reported, respectively. Of these, 97% were in unvaccinated individuals of orthodox protestant denomination. Reported consequences of rubella in pregnancy were 2 fetal deaths and 14 infants with congenital infection. Of the latter, 11 had clinical defects including deafness in all but eye defects in none. "
http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2013/06/meanwhile-measles-break-out-in-dutch.html
Interesting stuffs....
dissentient
(861 posts)I don't think that is a bad thing, just a different culture.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)FDR got Americans to temporarily care about the public good but the Right Wing Revolution of the past 40 years, perhaps along with the rise of social liberalism (and thus reactionary racism), has made Americans to care less about other people and only about themselves.
Why would Americans care about fellow other Americans when many fellow other Americans are black or hispanic or some other race than white (thus, the "other"
? Or when many other Americans are "moochers that are taking away their hard earned money through taxes"? Or when so many Americans are basically the victims of other Americans? Or when you have to compete with other Americans to make money because jobs are scarce?
The Right Wing Revolution has basically destroyed the sense of community that America at least partially had before, and thus Americans now only care about themselves and little else.
kickysnana
(3,908 posts)Like they use terrorism laws against legal protestors here> In Sweden their health department is not run by executives of the pharmaceutical company. In Sweden you can probably actually sue anyone who mishandles vaccines that cause death to children. Not so here.
Vaccination in Sweden is a wonderful thing. Vaccination in America needs careful thought by anyone who cares about children.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)POST 70.
Number of Mandatory Vaccines and Under 5 Mortality Rates for Top 30 Countries
CHART SOURCE: @JBHandleyjr

[img]
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Vaccine Schedule
ECDC collects information on vaccination schedules in the EU/EEA countries with the help of ECDC national focal points. This tool allows for comparison of shedules between two countries and diseases for all or a selection of countries.
<>
2014 CDC schedule (does not transfer): http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/child-adolescent.html
CHART SOURCE: http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2013/07/welcome-ernest-hancock-listeners.html
Compiled DEC 2010, published JULY 2013.
Starts at birth. Omits (?)new pregnancy recommendations: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/adults/rec-vac/pregnant.html .

BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I am not a fan of the flu vaccine as it rarely protects agains the current strain or is considered significantly effective. But the other ones seem roughly the same.
As a child, we traveled all over the world so I had to be vaccinated for every disease under the sun to meet the visa requirements. I remember things like cholera, which was a series of shots over a period of weeks being especially bad. My arm swelled, and I felt tired and groggy for a day or two. But I suffered no long-term ill effects. One of my relatives had two children die in her country because she didn't vaccinate her youngest children because she didn't want them to cry. It's a bad business.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)In Sweden the total number of recommended vaccines by age five is 11; in the US, it is 36. That's it, in a nutshell.
ASIDE: Comparing under 5 mortality rates between the two populations does not support the thesis that more is better either, by the way. Sweden is #2, the US is #34 in the important chart above. SOURCE: JB HANDLEY of GENERATION RESCUE and FOURTEEN STUDIES
The article cited in the OP touts the marvelous compliance of Swedish parents, as contrasted with Americans. That's a bogus apples to oranges comparison and unfair. "Even pro-vaccine parents have a threshold for compliance," as I recently read (with supporting data).
See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141001455#post73
Related: http://www.fourteenstudies.org/question.html
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)The U.S. infant mortality rate is much higher for a variety of reasons.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)TrollBuster9090
(6,113 posts)thanks for linking me here.
1. Can you show proof that the number of mandated VACCINATIONS has increased in the last 30 years? (And hopefully not using a chart supplied by J. D. Handley, who is a layman who founded an anti-vaccination group, and is one of Andrew Wakefield's biggest supporters.)
2. The bottom table doesn't do this, because it shows recommended vaccination schedules, not mandated vaccinations.
3. The number of vaccines given HAS increased, but the number of vaccinations hasn't, due to the rise of multi-vaccine injections. (6 in 1, 5 in 1 etc. MMR is 3 in 1.)
4. Can you show that there is a higher incidence of autism (or ASD) in military personnel than in the general public, because military personnel get a military series vaccination? (Large number of vaccines, grouped together into two or three shots.) Nobody has ever shown that, to my knowledge, and it would be an easy smoking gun.
Nevertheless, if you're just taking about children's vaccinations, there hasn't been a radical increase in the last 30 years.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)FEDERAL VACCINE RECOMMENDATIONS VS. STATE VACCINE LAWS
There is a difference between federal vaccine policies and state vaccine laws. Federal public health officials at the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) make national vaccine policy recommendations for children and adults. With the approval of state legislatures, public health officials in state health departments make and enforce vaccine mandates. That is why vaccine laws and legal exemptions to vaccination vary from state to state.
The first vaccine mandated in the U.S. was smallpox vaccine. By 1922, some states had passed laws requiring that children show proof they were vaccinated for smallpox in order to attend school. By the early 1980s, the CDC recommended and most states mandated that children get 23 doses of seven vaccines (polio, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella) to attend kindergarten.
By 2014, the CDC recommended that children get 69 doses of 16 vaccines between day of birth and age 18. Most states mandate that children get 29 doses of nine vaccines to attend kindergarten with children enrolled in daycare in many states required to get multiple doses of 13 vaccines.
LEGAL EXEMPTIONS TO VACCINATION
Medical, religious, philosophical, conscientious or personal belief exemptions are worded differently in each state. To file and receive a vaccine exemption for your child to attend school, you must follow the regulations outlined in your states vaccine law. In 2014, all 50 states allowed a medical vaccine exemption; 48 states allowed a religious vaccine exemption and 17 states allowed a philosophical, conscientious or personal belief exemption.
<>
"...By the early 1980s,
the CDC recommended
and most states mandated
that children get 23 doses of seven vaccines (polio, diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella) to attend kindergarten."
"...By 2014,
the CDC recommended that children get 69 doses of 16 vaccines between day of birth and age 18.
Most states mandate that children get 29 doses of nine vaccines to attend kindergarten
with children enrolled in daycare in many states required to get multiple doses of 13 vaccines."
TAKEAWAY: Children enrolled in daycare today in many states are required to get 'multiple doses' of almost DOUBLE the number of vaccines mandated to attend kindergarten in the early '80's (13 vs 7, now 9). (Great points. I didn't know there was a difference between daycare and kindergarten mandates. Thanks for pinpointing this distinction.)
TrollBuster9090
(6,113 posts)it says "the CDC recommends that children get 69 doses of 16 vaccines," or just an official website from ONE STATE that mandates children get 29 doses of nine vaccines to attend kindergarden? Just show me ONE STATE that mandates 29 doses of nine vaccines to attend kindergarden.
The problem is that your original chart from J. B. Handley tried to correlate 36 "mandatory" vaccines before age five with the highest infant mortality rate. (Your original comment was regarding Sweden vs. USA) In fact, the USA does not mandate anywhere NEAR 36 vaccines, and what Handley has obviously done is add together all the vaccines that are mandated in ANY state (and probably not even universally-- ie- many States mandate nurses get HEP B vaccinations, but not children, obviously), to come up with the number 36. When, in fact, most States mandate two or three children's vaccines at the most (not 36), while Sweden DOES mandate all 11. If Handley cooked up a deceptive chart like that, there's no reason to believe NVIC wouldn't do the same thing.
So, if you're going to make a claim that the CDC recommends 69 doses of 16 vaccines, or that 'most states mandate 29 doses of nine vaccines before kindergarden' you'll have to link to either the CDC, or a State website that claims that. Not a second hand quote from an anti-vaccine advocacy group.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)on state mandates, below, hasn't been updated past 2011 and doesn't include latest seasonal flu mandate in RI and CT; or Rotavirus mandate in ID; or HEP A mandates in AZ, AR, CT, ID, MN, PA, RI.
http://www.immunize.org/laws/flu_childcare.asp
States with Influenza Vaccine Mandates for Childcare: CT, NJ, NYC, RI
This page was updated on January 15, 2015
http://www.immunize.org/laws/rotavirus.asp
Rotavirus Prevention Mandates for Children in Day Care Facilities: ID, LA, RI
This page was updated on February 2, 2015
http://www.immunize.org/laws/hepa.asp
Hepatitis A Prevention Mandates for Daycare: AK, AZ, AR, CT, DC, GA, ID, KS, MN, NV, NM, ND, OK, OR, PA, RI, TN, TX, UT, WV
This page was updated on January 15, 2015
Childcare providers are required to enforce vaccinations as recommended by the CDC: WV
vs. CDC.gov pages (last updated: July 21, 2011)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/record-reqs/childcare-school.html
to http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/laws/index.html
ODDLY contains indistinguishable (to me) links to both http://www.immunize.org/laws/ (above and current, searchable by vaccine)
and http://www2a.cdc.gov/nip/schoolsurv/schImmRqmt.asp (below, out-of-date, and which I unfortunately examined first before seeing the date)
SEARCH (last updated: July 21, 2011)
CHILDCARE (DC): 21-26 doses of 8 vaccines
CHILDCARE (GA): 20-22 doses of 8 vaccines
CHILDCARE (NJ): 12 doses of 7 vaccines PLUS seasonal flu annually (8 vaccines)
CHILDCARE (UTAH): 21 doses of 8 vaccines
CHILDCARE (PA): 19 doses of 7 vaccines
CHILDCARE (MN): 15 doses of 6 vaccines
CHILDCARE (NYC): 18 doses of 7 vaccines PLUS seasonal flu annually (8 vaccines)
CHILDCARE (LA): 20-21 doses of 7 vaccines
CHILDCARE (RI): 19-21 doses of 7 vaccines PLUS seasonal flu annually (8 vaccines)
But you already knew that? Your turn. Check it out:
http://www.nvic.org/Ask-Eight-Questions.aspx
http://www.newsmaxtv.com/live/show/AmericasForum/archive/?ooid=5tdjU3czoa8-dNs9XEvTZqmkedSvQ2Y8
TrollBuster9090
(6,113 posts)But thanks for the CDC link.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)ALL the links in the post above are from the CDC website, as explained, including the top despite the different URL.
SchoolVaxView School Vaccination Requirements and Exemptions
All 50 states and the District of Columbia require certain vaccinations for children entering schools.
State Vaccination Requirements Use this tool to learn about childcare, kindergarten, middle school, college, and university vaccination requirements for school entry. -> http://www2a.cdc.gov/nip/schoolsurv/schImmRqmt.asp
Additional information: State mandates on immunization and vaccine-preventable diseases. -> http://www.immunize.org/laws/
As noted, the "State Vaccination Requirements" was last updated in 2011 (searchable in multiple ways); the "Additional Information" is current (searchable only by vaccine)
1983: 24 doses total birth to 18 years of age of 4 vaccines (polio, DPT, MMR, tetanus)
2015: 71 doses total birth to 18 years of age of (please see chart by Ginger Taylor or read below)
History of Vaccine Schedule
Reviewed by: Paul A. Offit, MD
Date: April 2013
EXCERPT: Combination Vaccines
In the early 1950s, there were four vaccines: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis and smallpox. Because three of these vaccines were combined into a single shot (DTP), children received five shots by the time they were 2 years old and not more than one shot at a single visit.
By the mid-1980s, there were seven vaccines: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella and polio. Because six of these vaccines were combined into two shots (DTP and MMR), and one, the polio vaccine, was given by mouth, children still received five shots by the time they were 2 years old and not more than one shot at a single visit.
Since the mid-1980s, many vaccines have been added to the schedule. Now, children could receive as many as 24 shots by 2 years of age and five shots in a single visit. The result is that the vaccine schedule has become much more complicated than it once was, and children are receiving far more shots than before (see Vaccine Safety for answers to the questions, Do vaccines weaken the immune system? and Do vaccines overwhelm the immune system?). However, help is on the way. Vaccines are again in the process of being combined in the same way that the DTaP and MMR vaccines are already combined.
The following combinations of vaccines are now available:
Diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis<>
Diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, and inactivated polio
Diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, inactivated polio, and hepatitis B
Diphtheria, tetanus, acellular pertussis, inactivated polio, and Haemophilus influenzae type b
Measles, mumps, and rubella
Measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella
Haemophilus influenzae type b and hepatitis B
Haemophilus influenzae type b and meningococcus
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)http://www.thinktwice.com/overdose.pdf
(Ignore editorializing: does great job of clarifying "38 individual doses via 10 vaccines by 18 mo" and that "It is permissible for babies to receive a cocktail of up to 13 doses via 9 vaccines at their 12 or 15 month visit."
Response to pampango (Original post)
proverbialwisdom This message was self-deleted by its author.
aquart
(69,014 posts)People know what they're entitled to but not what they OWE.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Downloads/CommitteeMeetingDocument/46801
Meeting Material SB 442 Jonathan Handley Testimony Resident
MUST READ
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Why U.S. maternity leave policies still fail women and children
January 27, 2015
by Claire Suddath
<>
According to the United Nations International Labour Organization, there are only two countries in the world that dont have some form of legally protected, partially paid time off for working women whove just had a baby: Papua New Guinea and the U.S.
The U.S. is also way behind the 78 countries that also offer leave to fathers. Forcing mothers back to work early can have consequences for children.
<>
In any discussion of parental leave, Sweden is the promised land. Parents are given 16 months of paid leave, two of which are reserved just for fathers, and they can divide the rest however they like until their child is 8 years old. While on leave, the government pays 80 percent of the parents income, even if shes self-employed...