Stunned to see Anti-Vax knuckleheads here on DU.

[trumad]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by SYFROYH (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I mean it's Woo on steroids and dangerous Woo at that.

[leftofcool]

1. Knuckleheads?

Does this apply to anyone who has a different opinion here on DU? Are they wrong, yes, but they are not stupid, they are not knuckleheads, they are not uneducated. They think differently and maybe instead of calling names, we could educate them on the values of vaccinations.

[Bavorskoami]

6. Science deniers then

On DU most recognize the science deniers (climate, evolution, stem cells) on the right. Looks there are some (vaccinations) here also.

[paleotn]

7. different opinions are fine....

....as long as they are defensible with evidence. Opinions not that much different from the earth is flat and the sun and stars revolve around the earth in celestial spheres, but worst of all needlessly endanger the lives of thousands of innocents are idiotic. The OP is correct in calling them....knuckleheads.

[HereSince1628]

36. Calling people names as support for evidence based rhetoric...

curious if not ironic.

[stevenleser]

77. For people who are hurting and killing people by their actions and wacko beliefs? It's warranted. nt

[Demit]

18. You say: they are not uneducated, but we could educate them.

You can't have it both ways.

[Zynx]

19. This is legitimately one of the worst arguments I've ever heard.

Merely having an opinion doesn't lend a statement any credibility at all. I could be of the opinion that you are, in fact, a monitor lizard. I don't care if every outward appearance suggests that you're mammalian. Something deep within me tells me you're a monitor lizard and I'm going to hold to that opinion. That's a different opinion. Is it remotely valid?

If an opinion is not supported by anything resembling facts and reason, it can be dismissed accordingly and people who hold to views that have been dismissed by evidence are, in fact, knuckleheads.

The idea that all views, regardless of merit, have to be given an audience, is an evil concept and it should be treated with the scalding contempt it deserves.

[haikugal]

24. You have my gratitude

For this bit of reality.

I can't believe Trumads post was hidden.....aren't we adults?

[Zynx]

29. That jury decision was flawed and I don't respect it, either.

We have to have an ability to regulate the marketplace of ideas at least somewhat where we don't let the total crap pollute otherwise decent discussion.

[haikugal]

33. Absolutely, I concur...and we are adults!

[LiberalLoner]

39. +1

[iandhr]

35. Their "education"

Last edited Tue Feb 3, 2015, 09:55 AM - Edit history (1)

makes it worse. They should know better. The smart stupid people

[Lucky Luciano]

46. They are indeed fuckng stupid. They deserve zero respect and should be publicly ridiculed.

[Javaman]

56. anti-vaxxers are knuckleheads. Science has proven it. nt

[Hari Seldon]

57. Knuckleheads againgst Vaxcist Locksteppers

Independent thought is still the hallmark of true LIBERALS!

I am a proud KNUCKLEHEAD!

[stevenleser]

81. No, it's not. Anti-Vaxx started as John Birch Society conspiracy garbage. That's the root of your

beliefs if you are anti-vax.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

91. No, that's the hallmark of true Libertarians.

Rational thought is the hallmark of true Liberals.

[cannondale]

71. " they are not uneducated."

They are uneducated.

[Renew Deal]

90. That's one of the nicer things that can be said about anti-vaccers

[trumad]

5. Pro-Vax crowd

Is that what we are called. Let me tell you something...the anti-vax crowd are dangerous mother Fuckers and should be ridiculed out of existance.

[haikugal]

8. No, didn't you hear?

We're the LYNCH MOB! Unbelievable....

[benz380]

50. 2-5 to keep this post. n/t

[Hari Seldon]

59. Ridiculed out of existence?

Thats how vaccines work too?

Science!

[Lucky Luciano]

66. Yes. You should be disgraced, shamed and laughed at

everywhere you go - along with creationists and a hodge podge of other stupid people.

[enki23]

63. Agreed. Up there with fucking HIV-AIDS denial.

.

[salin]

76. enki!!!!

Haven't "seen" you in ages!

And agreed.

Sadly another sign that our society has given up on concern about "The Commons".

[enki23]

84. Wow, yes. Long time.

Yeah. I think our society has swung, in some dimensions, too far from the idea of the common good.

[stevenleser]

83. Your above post should not have been hidden and admins should add anti-vax to their list of

conspiracy theories that are only allowed in the 'creative speculation' dungeon if at all.

[Zynx]

15. There is *no* information being supplied by the anti-vaxxers.

"Pro-vaxxers" (having to even write that drives me insane) represent the overwhelming, and basically unanimous, scientific consensus on the issue supported by data. The anti-vaxxers have nothing besides a discredited study that has been thoroughly refuted and some visceral notion that the claims might possibly be true.

The claims by the two positions are not remotely on an even footing. One is impossibly weaker than the other. The anti-vaccine crowd doesn't have to be treated with respect.

[SidDithers]

16. OMFG...

Sid

[hobbit709]

21. I'd rather believe in those that followed in the footsteps of Dr. Jenner

than in the idiots that believe a proven fraud and a failed Playmate.

[Demit]

23. There are other websites where you can find the truthiness you seek.

You haven't been here very long, maybe this is not the place for you.

[SidDithers]

31. +1...nt

Sid

[mopinko]

72. knows the ropes, tho.

[xmas74]

34. Proud Pro-Vax and made sure my kid has everything up to date.

I worked in a state hospital with developmentally disabled adults. I saw what can happen when vaccines were not administered or didn't exist, in some cases, when the patient contracted whatever disease. It's not pretty.

Wanna know a possible "side effect" of measles? Encephalitis. I saw it on a few adults at the hab center. That alone was enough to scare me into vaccinating on schedule.

When I was pregnant I still worked at the hab center. A parent of an individual I cared for came to visit his son. We had always been friendly and when he realized I was pregnant he became serious. He pleaded with me to get the MMR vaccine. Why? Because if his son had been vaccinated he wouldn't have contracted measles, which in turn became encephalitis, which in turn fried his brain. He was forty with the mental age of a two year old. His charts said before measles he was considered to be very bright, almost gifted.

We had doctors on grounds. They had children. They all were pro vaccinations. Why? Because we all saw what could happen without them.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. You know, internationally, opposition to vaccines is just another aspect of right wing religious

conservatism. Look it up, the Dutch Bible Belt has outbreaks on a regular basis, measles, mumps, rubella and even polio. Some of their outbreaks travel to North America, both the US and Canada. Canada has such religious community based outbreaks regularly. Extremely conservative Protestant sects. Your international cohort.

[stevenleser]

86. Correct. It originates from the John Birch Society and is another of their wacko conspiracy theories

folks who are anti-vaxx are Birchers in that portion of their belief system

[HappyMe]

3. I'm not surprised.

Being anti-vax has nothing to do with politics.

All of the CDC info is readily available on the internets. I have posted links to it in a couple of my posts.

Maybe the Hillary card should be played here. I'm no fan, but she's bang on.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/in-tweet-hillary-clinton-encourages-vaccinations/

[Major Nikon]

12. This gets my vote for the most entertaining spam

Not to mention a good idea for the anti-vaxxers

[hobbit709]

13. It's certainly not the run of the mill spam.

[HappyMe]

14. I should say so.

Maybe they have an anti-communicable disease spell that the science deniers, anti-vax crowd would like to try.

[randome]

10. Any more proof needed that this country has become depressingly Conservative?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[haikugal]

11. And insane!

[randome]

38. Like I said...Conservative.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[haikugal]

40. I see what you did...lol

[FarPoint]

17. I am Pro Vaccinations....

We have essentially eradicated many terminal, infectious diseases with mass vaccination using the "herd" phenomena or "community immunity". Now, even if one is vaccinated, you will not be protected because several in the "herd" are not protected. The more unvaccinated individuals increases the risk of contracting a disease one thought to of been protected from with a vaccination.

No vaccinations equals chaos and a mass plague potential.

snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Herd immunity or herd effect, also called community immunity, describes a form of immunity[1] that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.[2] Herd immunity theory proposes that, in contagious diseases that are transmitted from individual to individual, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted when large numbers of a population are immune or less susceptible to the disease. The greater the proportion of individuals who are resistant, the smaller the probability that a susceptible individual will come into contact with an infectious individual.[3]

[malaise]

20. I used to be stunned

Sadly - not any more

[PeaceNikki]

22. There are anti-choicers here as well. People who don't believe women should have autonomy.

People who literally call abortion "murder". I am more stunned by them and admin's tolerance for opposition to something which is explicitly and clearly stated in the Democratic Party platform.

meh, it's just the uppity women, so who cares?

[geek tragedy]

25. There should be a zero tolerance policy for craziness that kills nt

[mark67]

26. Call Them Out

When I was in the military in '95 there was loud controversy about the Anthrax vaccine. I had to go online (early days of the Internet) to find out that the vaccine had been safely used since the 1950s and most of the controversy was based on black helicopter conspiracy nonsense. (I think 1:100,000 have non-fatal reactions to the vaccine, or something like that.)

Considering the dangers unvaccinated children face, you have to call these people out-there is no equivalency here.

[blackspade]

28. The stoopid hurts

[iandhr]

30. I am not.

I am a proud liberal. But who said liberals are always smart. These anti vaxers are in affluent progressive communities in Southern California. they also include some highly educated people like RFK Jr. These are not the wacko Christian faith healers these people should know better.

[cab67]

32. It's one of the very few kinds of bipartisan anti-science

Most are centered in the right - anti-evolution, anti-global warming, anti-HPV, anti-contraception (on the mistaken belief it causes abortions), anti-stem cell research, and anti-any kind of regulation based on scientific information.


There are people here on DU who post anti-vaccine screeds. Many of the celebrities who cry out against vaccines are presumably left of center in other ways. But it also appears in the right-of-center libertarian crowd, and Rand Paul is one of its advocates.

[liberal N proud]

37. You shouldn't be so surprised - whatever the issue, DU has detractors

People who always seem to be on the thinking of the average DUer.

What I always wonder, is it real, are they trolls or is it diversity? One never knows what to think.

[Orrex]

41. I'm stunned that you're stunned

They've been here for at least as long as I have. More's the pity.

[tenderfoot]

43. That's nothing. There's pro-bullying/Anti-payback knuckles heads too.

Along with Chris Kyle fan knuckleheads.

We're surrounded by right wing knuckleheads.

[pintobean]

44. Huh?

Pro-bullying/Anti-payback? What does that mean?

[haikugal]

45. If your post gets hidden

I'll have to concede that we are NOT adults here!

I've noticed those same people also, too.....

[tenderfoot]

47. Thank you.

Disturbing isn't it?

[wyldwolf]

48. Why? Woo has always been a hallmark of the left

[m.bolden jr.]

49. A little perspective, please?

When there's so much loud, endlessly-repeated agreement on a topic, and it never shuts up, and we're all so sure, and threats are beginning to be voiced, it makes a reasonable person, in our modern, low-information USA, get a little suspicious that consensus is being threatened, and is being reinforced. There actually is some evidence, statistically, that not all is like it's being painted in this matter, and there are some grounds for resistance to the loud majority's insistence that MMR vaccination is good for everyone and hurts almost no one. They're also painting measles as a killer disease. I'm beginning to wonder. If we all agree that anti-vaxxers are wrong, does that make them wrong?

[hack89]

52. Measles is a killer disease

The number of measles cases from the outbreak linked to Disneyland has now risen to at least 98. But measles remains extremely rare in the United States.

The rest of the world hasn't been so fortunate. Last year roughly 250,000 people came down with measles; more than half of them died.

"The measles virus is probably the most contagious infectious disease known to mankind," says Stephen Cochi, a senior adviser with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's global immunization division.

"The children under 5 are very vulnerable to measles," Robinson says. They're the primary target of vaccination campaigns. "It takes just a few days to get them vaccinated but it also takes a very short time for the virus to kill them."

http://www.npr.org/2015/01/30/382716075/measles-is-a-killer-it-took-145-000-lives-worldwide-last-year

The death toll used to be much much higher until a global eradication campaign was launched (with vaccines) in the 1980s.

[CanSocDem]

80. Indeed!

I like this line-"... it makes a reasonable person, in our modern, low-information USA, get a little suspicious that consensus is being threatened...".


It's as if the medical/pharmaceutical industries began on the 8th Day of Creation. They're "right as rain" as the saying goes. And so, after a lifetime of pseudo-scientific propaganda, all of our resident progressives are poised to deny individual human rights in search of a marketable "consensus".

After all, in the USA it is all about 'the money'. Any hare-brained scheme is acceptable if it makes money. Truth be damned...

But I'm wondering, since I neither support the theory of vaccinations nor pray to Jesus, who is going to take care of my useless old carcass? There has to be somebody, right?



.

[Cryptoad]

51. There are many Papa Paul coverts around!

[ColesCountyDem]

53. I'm amazed that the same folks who accept global warming and climate change...

... because the science overwhelmingly supports both, will reject the science behind vaccination, which is at least as convincing and well-documented.

[AtheistCrusader]

64. Ugh.

Well, here's a club for you then.

http://vhemt.org/


Edit: Serious response to your horseshit? As child mortality goes down, so does family size, because people stop trying to have as many kids as possible to beat the odds and have some of them survive. Vaccines lower child mortality to a significant degree, leading to people choosing to have smaller families. So uh... yeah. Genius post there bro.

Asimov would be embarrassed by your username.

[Not Me]

55. I just got a shingles vaccination yesterday

while at my annual physical. I hope I don't catch autism.

[Historic NY]

58. Even the ebola nurse says Christie is all hot air on vaccination...

Christie made ‘some very ill-informed statements.’ Her comments were based on Christie telling reporters Monday that parents should have conversations about the vaccines because ‘not every vaccine is created equal and not every disease type is as great a public health threat as others.’ Hickox said Christie should consult with experts before speaking. She also questioned his leadership.

http://nydn.us/1EBPOng

[Demit]

75. Why "even" her?

Was she notorious for being against some vaccinations? No, she wasn't. So why your curious phrasing?

[enki23]

60. 9/11 trutherism isn't DU-protected speech. Nor should be anti-vaccine denialist bullshit.

To this point, it has been. Probably because they're mostly marginalized in their bastions of mass delusion. But now they're actually hurting people for real, which makes the 9/11 truthers look like fucking pikers in the comparison.

[Hari Seldon]

62. Majority Rule should win!

Thats what America is all about!

[enki23]

67. I didn't say a fucking thing about majority rule. Reality isn't subject to a vote.

This is not a situation where reality is reasonably questionable. The strength of your delusion is indifferent to your number, though the danger isn't. You're like creationists, except you practice stochastic child sacrifice. That's not a freedom you should fucking have, no matter how really extra super hard you believe in it.

[JTFrog]

69. That poster is already locked out of the thread.

Deserves a little special attention from MIRT.

[Hari Seldon]

61. Je Suis Knucklehead!

Yes We Kan-nucklehead!


I think you may have started something!

[AtheistCrusader]

68. Something you won't be able to continue in this thread.

[stevenleser]

89. As the President said in one of his debates, "please proceed"...

... oh wait, you can't.

[LuckyTheDog]

65. If people ask me whether not having your kids vaccinated makes one a bad parent...

... I have to be honest and say, yes, in my opinion, it does.

Vaccines work. They save lives. Refusing vaccines as an adult is one thing. Denying that protection to your kids borders on child abuse, IMO.

[Android3.14]

70. said the man who thinks 1984 is a user manual

Most folks you are calling anti-vax knuckleheads are just fine with vaccinations. We just don't think the government should inject material into a free person's body against their will.

So take your insult, study up on rectal feeding, then follow the example on yourself.

[Lucky Luciano]

74. Got another infected person over here folks! nt

[randome]

85. Wait. Is there an anti-vaccine vaccine? Or does DU count for that?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[LuckyTheDog]

79. The government puts fluoride in the water. That affects everyone.

How is mandating vaccines any different? We all do things required by our society as a condition of being part of it. We wear "appropriate" clothes even when the weather is hot. We stop at stop signs. We live within rules re: how we can and can't feed and house our kids.

I just don't see how getting a shot is a massive violation of anyone's liberty. It's not even much of an inconvenience.

[Demit]

82. Are you against fluoridation of water?

[Android3.14]

94. Nope, just forcing people to drink it.

eom

[Buzz Clik]

73. It's the same lack of understanding that makes for anti-GMO.

Same shit, different day.

[G_j]

78. yea, compare Monsanto products with vaccines

that's quite helpful...

[mopinko]

87. you shouldnt be.

way to rile them up, tho.
yeah, they are here. and then there are those that come and go.

glad event have presented the sort of evidence that makes them shun the light a little.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

88. The only surprise for me

is seeing how 'long term' (ie, high post count) many of the antivax types are.

[1bigdude]

92. I believe Pres Obama AND Hillary were both guilty of the same type of vaccine hysteria...

“We’ve seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it’s connected to the vaccines. This person included. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it,” then Sen. Obama said in 2008.

Likely 2016 Democrat nominee Hillary Clinton had a similar statement while speaking to an anti-vaccine group on the campaign trail in 2008.

“I am committed to make investments to find the causes of autism, including possible environmental causes like vaccines,” said Clinton in a written response to the group.

[WinkyDink]

93. I'm vaccinated, got no beefs against vaccinations. But let us not pretend our very own govt can do

such evil and nefarious deeds with "medicine" as these:

http://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/10/01/guatemala.syphilis.tuskegee/

Not to mention the cancer deaths traced back to atomic testing in the West:

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/intheworkplace/cancer-among-military-personnel-exposed-to-nuclear-weapons

Or the myriad assurances we've been given about medicines:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/exclusive-the-lariam-scandal--mod-ignored-decades-of-warnings-about-dangers-of-suicide-drug-8842496.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/some-us-troops-haunted-by-anti-malaria-drugs-side-effects/

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/booming/the-death-and-afterlife-of-thalidomide.html?_r=0

[aikoaiko]

95. Locking.

Your OP qualifies as disruptive meta discussion.

DISRUPTIVE META-DISCUSSION
Positive threads about Democratic Underground or its members are are permitted.

Threads complaining about Democratic Underground or its members; threads complaining about jury decisions, locked threads, suspensions, bannings, or the like; and threads intended to disrupt or negatively influence the normal workings of Democratic Underground and its community moderating system are not permitted.