Why the DU vulgarity?

[Shemp Howard]

Last edited Tue Feb 3, 2015, 02:41 PM - Edit history (2)

I acknowledge that I'm a relative newbe here at DU. And I acknowledge that many people at DU are very passionate about certain topics. Furthermore, I acknowledge that most DU posts are not vulgar.

But I just don't understand the vulgarity, when it is used here. What is the difference between "Bush was wrong" and "F*cking Bush was wrong"? The first is a statement that invites a civil conversation. The second is more like a childish playground taunt.

I'm a progressive because progressiveness is, to me, a world-view that tries to see the best in people. To me, progressiveness is a humane and compassionate way of looking at things. Vulgarity just doesn't seem to fit into all that.

Edit:

As I mentioned in post #24, I'm going to listen to some Joan Baez now. So I won't be responding to posts here. I hope I've added some food for thought. I'm not advocating censorship, just rational self-control. Because I, for one, have never been swayed by arguments that are full of vulgarity. But maybe that's just me. Now it's time for some Joanie.

[MohRokTah]

1. What the fuck do you mean?

Fucking A!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

90. Hell if I know.

[MohRokTah]

92. It's a god damned mother fucking shame.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

93. Yeah, having a bitch of a time with this one.

[kentauros]

96. Fuckin' eh!

[msanthrope]

2. What the fuck is your concern? nt

[MohRokTah]

5. This whole thing seems to be completely fucked up shit. eom

[msanthrope]

8. The OP should unfuck this. nt

[kentauros]

28. However, I refuse to unfuck this post:

And the OP needs to do a little reading about these vulgar words:

[font size="5"]Etymology of the 7-Deadlies[/font]

[cyberswede]

33. Any thread that results in the posting of this video is a great fucking thread.

[kentauros]

64. It was well on it's way to becoming a great fucking thread

even before I went looking for it on that other great fucking thread from last week!

[benz380]

3. Oh @#$@#$!@#$

(just kidding!)

[snooper2]

4. these threads usually end up with more fucking posts

than a rabbit can handle

[OriginalGeek]

82. Sometimes it's more fucking posts

sometimes it's more posting fucks.

Add me to the list of posting fucks.

[bravenak]

6. WTFuck you going on about?

There ain't no fucking vulgarity here. Shit.

[PeaceNikki]

7. Fuck is merely a word. "Vulgarity" is totally relative.

Words don't offend me. Supporting war offends me.

Language doesn't bother me. People who are without health care does.

Curse words don't hurt me. Women without autonomy does.

People treating my LGBT friends and family as second class citizens is vulgar to me. The word "fuck" is not.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

10. +1111111111111111111111111111111

[PeaceNikki]

12. My family crest is: a pair of eyes rolling to the side, the GB Packer logo, & the word 'fuck'.

I come from a long-line of 'potty-mouths'.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

15. Anyone who is bothered by language should listen to George Carlin explain exactly

why they shouldn't and what they should be bothered by, although you did a great job at it also.


Well meaning people can be and are bothered by language for reasons to do with how they were raised, but pointing out to them the dozens and dozens of problems and issues that are much more bothersome, is what works best, as you did.

[PeaceNikki]

27. I think I was around 7 the first time I saw a Carlin routine.

For real.

There's a great documentary called... yes, "Fuck"!! which I really enjoyed. It's just so dumb that some words are *so* gasp-worthy.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486585/


Now, to be clear, before some prude comes in here and asks me about offensive slurs: that's not what I mean. Words explicitly meant to hurt, designed to be and used as daggers (racial or gender based slurs, etc), are not included in what I mean.

[MohRokTah]

51. Have you ever noticed how your shit is stuff and everybody else's stuff is shit?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

59. another classic

[whathehell]

111. Anyone who tells others what they "should" or "should not" be offended by

never got George Carlin in the first place.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

112. Bullshit, he constantly berated people for being ignorant, just the EXACT opposite of what you

just said, exact opposite.

For christ sake the last 20 years of his work was about lecturing us on one subject or another.

[whathehell]

115. Waaaahhh!

There's nothing intrinsically "ignorant" about being sensitive to words.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

116. I chose ignorant as a catch all, do you really want to challenge this?

If you do then you did not listen to George Carlin, he challenged and berated us on all topics.

Whether it was an over-sensitivity to words or not understanding the power of language.

Whether it was about the IGNORANCE of believing in religion or capitalism, and many other things.

Being offended by language WAS one of his routines, for crying out loud



SEVEN DIRTY WORDS

what in the WORLD do you think was his point

His point was how STUPID it was to be offended by certain words and not others...or words at all


Look, if you dont like me, fine, say so, but dont try and rewrite the history of George Carlin, some of us know him far too well for that.


This reminds me of the anti climate change person, or denier, who used George out of context to say George didn't believe in climate change, when the opposite was true.

How I know the opposite was true was he clarified the statement "the planet will be fine, the people will be fucked" and I asked his daughter who laughed at the very idea that George denied climate change.

[whathehell]

127. That's where you went wrong, lol

We weren't talking about a "catch all", we were talking about two different things -- Ignorance and

the power of words -- They're not synonymous, whatever you're your level of blatant Carlin worship.

[whathehell]

110. Words have power and one can be offended by more than

what you clearly wish to present as "the great things".

[PeaceNikki]

113. whatthehell, indeed.

If you read what I wrote, I indicated some of what offends and is vulgar to *me*. Colorful language is not on my list.

And I don't know what "great things" you're taking about.

[whathehell]

120. You betcha, lol.

I did read what you wrote, but the OP wasn't talking about you, and I think you know exactly what

"great things" I am talking about.

I think you were saying that you were concerned with only "important" things like war and peace,

implying, by contrast, that his or her concerns were petty.

[PeaceNikki]

122. Why do you even bother to read what people write if you're just going to put your own spin on it ?

Just looking for a fight?

[whathehell]

129. You can call it "spin" or whatever you like..

It's my interpretation and I think it's correct.

[PeaceNikki]

134. Jesus Christ, you just want to pick a fight. ok.

This is a discussion board. You waltz into this thread and pick fights with people who nicely explained why they disagree with the OP. There was no implication that the OP is petty or that I am better than him/her, that's all in your fucking head. I stated my position and clearly said that "vulgarity is relative" - meaning it's different things to different people. Spin it anyway you want, but it's in your fucked up head. You're fucking wrong. I never said that. I meant what I said and I said what I meant.

have a good fucking day.

[whathehell]

199. Over react much, LOL?

Last edited Wed Feb 4, 2015, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)

No, dear, I don't "pick fights with people" -- You are the one freaking out into a litany of curses, swears and personal attacks, not me.

Did I hit a particularly sensitive nerve, or do you always respond so maturely when challenged, lol?

Your adolescent silliness isn't worth my time, so just remembe to have a "good fucking day' too.

[PeaceNikki]

200. Yes, you do. I am not your fucking 'dear'. You came into this thread like a total asshole.

It was a thread inviting discussion. I started discussing and you spun my words to mean things I did not say. And you 'stood your ground' when I told you that's not what I meant.

Hey, guess what: you don't know me. You certainly are not in a position to translate the words I wrote to mean something they did not say.

Adolescent silliness? Look in the mirror. Again, the OP seemed to be a valid question inviting discussion. My reply to it which started this discussion was reasonable, kind and on point. You came in like a toddler knocking shit off the shelves to insist that *MY* opinion is somehow eyeroll worthy.

Eat a bag.

[Kalidurga]

228. I am in awe that was excellent. NT

[truebluegreen]

237. +1

[Liberalynn]

188. Exactly!

[H2O Man]

9. Recommended.

Used properly, words have power.

[F4lconF16]

85. +1 -- one of my strongest, most dearly held beliefs.

However, I do have a problem with this post.

Vulgarity is left undefined, inviting all sorts of ideas about what is or is not vulgar, and of course, every person's definition of vulgarity will be different. This is a problem when people then refuse to listen because of perceived "vulgarity":

Because I, for one, have never been swayed by arguments that are full of vulgarity. But maybe that's just me.

In this post, there is a call for a sort of self-censorship for the purpose of avoiding this undefined vulgarity. It's not asking for restrained usage, or for usage that reflects a strong sense of emotion, or really any (somewhat) more useful idea. It's simply calling the use of profanity "childish", or anti-progressive. This, I have a problem with. Would you consider my use of profanity in this post an improper usage?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025818345

The OP would.

The OP is not advocating for better usage, but for us to cease usage of profanity entirely. And I only have one thing to say to that idea:

Fuck that shit.

[H2O Man]

88. I agree.

You make solid points. Thank you.

I do believe that the quality of many, many posts on DU:GD has decreased significantly in recent times. Used properly, "curse" words can be effective in communicating ideas. But they can also be used in an attempt to make nonsense, insults, and related messages more colorful, to distract attention from otherwise shallow thinking.

Just my opinion, of course.

[F4lconF16]

91. I haven't been around DU long enough to be able to comment on the post quality trends.

But I agree with your opinion. I see it most often used as a modifier, "emphasizing" a particular point. It very seldom makes the writing stronger, I think. It's also far to easy for someone to avoid listening, seizing on a word choice they don't like as a way to escape the conversation.

There is a reason you will almost never hear me use profanity in real life; it's far too distracting, and generally unnecessary. I use it in my writing significantly more, but often that's simply because I'm feeling lazy and using the writing as an outlet anyhow. I am working on using it less often, or at least to make the times that I do choose to use it effective.

[Bluenorthwest]

195. And yet the laws that oppress LGBT people in this country are crafted of the 'clean' language you

think is superior. Your priorities and my own are not the same at all in terms of what language we find objectionable.

[H2O Man]

197. Yet you are

not offended by the Sand Creek and Wounded Knee massacres; creationism being taught instead of evolution in public schools; or that Lennon's song "Cold Turkey" never broke the top five on any play-list.

Huh? I guess that I just don't enjoy diseased attempts to twist the reality of what others say as you clearly do. I note it is cyclical with you, not unlike someone falling off a wagon.

Yes, our thinking and values are very different.

[kentauros]

11. "The second is more like a childish playground taunt."

No, the second is a statement filled with the fully expressed anger of the poster. There is nothing in the wording of "Fucking Bush was wrong" that even implies a taunt.

We're adults. We're allowed to get angry with people through our words instead of through harsher means (bullets, bricks, buildings, bombs, et cetera.) The "vulgarity" is used for expression, be that anger or excited joy (such as a favorite team winning a big game.) Why get upset with that?

[Liberalynn]

189. That's why I swear

to convey and release anger in a a non violent way.

[kentauros]

209. I would add shock to that, too.

Either from some unexpected news, or from stubbing a toe

[Liberalynn]

211. Definitely

[HereSince1628]

13. IMO, progressives may or may not see the best in people...it's ancillary to progressiveness

whose fundamental belief is that there is both room for progress and a need to progress now. That's strategic.

The path to progress can include deadly conflict or appeals to humanity's better angels. That's tactical and depends upon just who stands in the path of progress.

[NCTraveler]

21. So much in so few words. Nice. nt.

[HereSince1628]

41. Unfortunately, I think it's true...it has led to dead people upon barricades

so it's not something to be taken lightly.

It has also led to dead steel workers in Milwaukee, men and boys, seeking nothing more than a 40 hour work week,,,

I wish the struggle for progress could simply succeed through appeals to the better nature of humanity.

History and current reality suggest that isn't always an option.

I'm progressive, and so I accept that at some point I may be called to a barricade, or the front line of a march, or that I should bw arrested for watching a group of singers in the state Capitol building...as I was.

I find it a solemn duty, but it's burdensome, unpleasant, and little recognized or rewarded.

[NCTraveler]

48. I also believe it to be true.

I was in no way being flippant in my first reply. I read your comment and it really resonated. People who put such grand thoughts into so few words rarely take credit. Mainly because they are in it for enlightenment and the betterment of all. Not personal recognition. For one reason or another I just really appreciated your application of thought to words. You embodied a whole thought process in that post.

[Bobbie Jo]

14. Take cover

You're about to get a DU-style demonstration.

Don't say I didn't warn you....

[pintobean]

16. Moe started it.

[NCTraveler]

17. "Vulgarity" has a place and time.

When used too often it loses its emphasis. It becomes even more difficult on a board like this where one cannot really get to know the prose of all members. I still don't see vulgarity as a "childish playground taunt." Sometimes? Maybe. But very rarely. They are words. Don't let them bother you so much. Being progressive has nothing to do with the use of the word "fuck" on du. I mean nothing. As you said, most posts are not vulgar. How about in the name of progressives everywhere, you don't tempt to make a negative point about those you have clearly deemed to be in the minority. That would seem to fall more in-line with progressive values than outrage over some words that have a truly limited effect on you.

[PasadenaTrudy]

18. We are angry and passionate...

These vulgarities are in our lexicon for a reason. Fuck is a good word, IMO

[riderinthestorm]

19. I actually feel sorry for you.

There's nothing like the deliciousness of a well.played epithet.

Also you've now ensured a vast multitude of fucks headed your way.



Welcome to DU!

[SamKnause]

20. I can't be humane and compassionate

because I use the word FUCK ???

Fuck that shit.

Huckabee would agree with you.

Do you really want to be in the same company as him ???

I don't think the word fuck is vulgar.

Maybe you are not aware of all the ways the word can be used.

Episode #12-Using Proper English-The Many Uses of the F word. (Available on You Tube)

I tried to post the link, but was not successful.

Fuck it.

[Dawgs]

22. We're all fucking adults here.

We can handle it.

And, censorship is for Assholes.

[Comrade Grumpy]

23. Dang, now you have the whole kindergarten riled up!

[Shemp Howard]

24. TO ALL THOSE WHO ARE RESPONDING WITH A VULGARITY...

To all those who are are responding to my original post with a vulgarity, I am not surprised. I was shooting for a rational discussion here, but I did expect a fair amount of childish, cutesy responses.

It's all part of the game, I suppose.

Regardless, my best wishes to you all. I'm going to go listen to some Joan Baez now.

[truebrit71]

31. And the fucking same to you!

[HappyMe]

34. What did you expect?

People to respond well to a lecture about language on an adult discussion board? Should we consider Shemp before we post?

[Brother Buzz]

35. Using 'ALL CAPS'' is considered vulgar by many on DU

I'm just saying.

[cwydro]

46. Don't let it get to you.

This is a common response to an OP such as yours.

Many DUers love to say f***.

The only thing that is more loved is a good old-fashioned pile on.

[Act_of_Reparation]

55. You might want to check your tone there, Ace.

You kickstarted this discussion with the premise that people who employ vulgarity are childish. Maybe people don't respond well to pompous, self-righteous finger-wagging?

[snooper2]

67. Joan Baez? Had to look her up, you know it's fucking 2015 now right

LOL

Try this shit on for size!

[giftedgirl77]

119. Lolololololol, love that song & it is perfect for this OP.

[bravenak]

130. Perfect!!!!nt

[Warren DeMontague]

151. Great fucking scott!

"But be prepared, Marty- everyone in 2015 swears like a motherfucking sailor!"

[PeaceNikki]

70. You ignored rational discussion. Fuck that.

[Warren Stupidity]

73. a rational discussion about an utterly fucking idiotic topic?

yeah go listen to some joan fucking baez, I'm sure she never said "fuck". Except of course when she did, but only in live concerts, so you won't have to be appalled.

[zappaman]

77. I saw Patti Smith last night.

She said "fuck" and I ran to the bathroom crying.

[Warren Stupidity]

78. now I'm crying too

this is so fucking sad.

[zappaman]

81. I wish someone would have stopped the concert and asked...

"Why the vulgarity, Patti?"

[Warren DeMontague]

152. I like your style, dude

[zappaman]

215. Thanks!

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-patti-smith-roxy-review-20150204-column.html

[COLGATE4]

79. and the horse you rode in on.

Please note - no vulgarity.

[Jamastiene]

102. You had better develop a sense of humor if you are going to get along on DU.

Humor, we haz it. Fuck, yeah!

[kcr]

106. Wait, don't you mean you're going to go listen to some more Joan Baez?

You'd already said you were going to go listen to some Joan Baez, remember?

[ann---]

156. It is a game

to some and, like children, they will play. Thanks for not going along with it and bringing up such an important subject.

[Rex]

223. Yeah 'part of the game', your own words...opps right!?

Ever had fried eggs Shemp?

[AtheistCrusader]

245. Well, fuck me.

[billh58]

265. Well that certainly

went well...

[Autumn]

25. What the fuck is wrong with using the word fuck? I don't got a fucking problem using it and

yeah that fucker Bush was wrong and Fucking Bush JR was not just fucking wrong he was a fucking idiot.

[BeyondGeography]

26. It all started with Nilsson

[truebrit71]

29. No fucking clue....

Sometimes a spade is just a spade, but sometimes it's a fucking shovel...

[eridani]

173. Don't be silly

A shovel is a leveraged tactile-feedback geomass delivery system. And don't you fucking forget it!

[HappyMe]

30. We are adults here.

After the shrub pResidency, what the hell do you expect? Fucking Bush was wrong. I find it hard to believe you expect a kumbaya, "find the best" about Huckabee, any Bush, the Orange Man....

I personally don't like language nannies. Sometimes, you use the work that fits.

[lovemydog]

32. Welcome.

There's room for different types of expression here.

[merrily]

164. The OP has been a member of DU since September 2013.

[Cleita]

36. In my mind, and I don't speak for DU, I consider denoting certain words in speech

as vulgarity is elitist. The word vulgar means the common people or underclasses, usually the descendants of people conquered by invaders, who settled and became their overlords imposing their language on the conquered. The language of the conquered became the vulgar language. In the case of English the word fuck is the Saxon for the more elegant fornicate that came from the invading French speaking Normans. They mean the same thing.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

37. What fucking "best" did you see in George W. Fucking Bush?

Vulgar

synonyms: rude, indecent, indelicate, offensive, distasteful, coarse, crude, ribald, risqué, naughty, suggestive, racy, earthy, off-color, bawdy, obscene, profane, lewd, salacious, smutty, dirty, filthy, pornographic, X-rated;

That covers a lot of fucking territory.

Now go read some Rude Pundit. Jonathan Swift. Shakespeare.

You'll live.

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. You've been here since '13. How do you NOT know what kind of responses a thread like this will get?

I'm betting you DID know though, because you just played DU like a fiddle. Posts like yours never fail to turn DU into Marionette Underground.

[merrily]

168. I think you are giving the OP way too much credit.

Anyway, he or she has stomped his or her heel and gone off to listen to Joan Baez.

[LiberalAndProud]

39. You're not new, unless we're talking about your post count.

You've been a member longer than most.

As for the use of vulgar terms, I'd be interested in knowing if cussing is influenced more by regional or generational influences. I wasn't allowed to say "butt" or "fart" growing up. That, I thought, was overly prudish, considering the language I was surrounded by among my peers, where no words were off limits even for elementary students. In that rural, cowboy community, the f-word was just another word.

[yuiyoshida]

40. To me there are far more vulgar words..

Racist words..
Sexist words...
Anti-Gay, Lesbian, Bi and Transgender words
Misogynist words..

[JustAnotherGen]

43. Fuck yeah!

[Logical]

44. +1000! nt

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

128. War. 'drone strikes'. 'collateral damage'. nt

[Brigid]

42. Here are a few more:

Feckin' idjit
gobshite

Compliments of the Irish.

[kentauros]

100. Yep!

[Brigid]

103. And it's off to Confession with the lot of 'em!

[cwydro]

125. Gobshite is one of my alltime faves!

My Irish friends use quite a bit of "foul" language lol!

[Brigid]

131. You will love this guy:

[cwydro]

132. "Fuckshite!"

That's even better!

What a great password for my work computer lol!

[Tsiyu]

212. "Aw piss off, Sir. I'm goin' fer a pint."

My kinda man rightcheer!

[madinmaryland]

137. Hey! Knock that fucking shit off...

We have a beautiful and loving cat whose name is Idgit!!

[Brigid]

138. Well, there is someone here on DU, I don't remember who . . .

Has a dog named Dumbass.

[madinmaryland]

142. Snort...

"It's not allowed to call that certain DUer's dog a dumbass"

[Brigid]

143. Hey, it wasn't my dog.

I didn't name him.

[SidDithers]

45. From Lenny Bruce...

Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government."



Sid

[Orsino]

47. So calling Bush on ruling like a spoiled brat is childish taunting?

What the fuck other treatment does his legacy of ruin deserve? What sweet metaphors ought people to employ to describe the robbing of their lives and livelihoods? How the fuck does the language used after the fact become the problem?

2/10

[FSogol]

49. In the sentence, "Fucking Bush was wrong," the vulgar part is "George W Bush", not the F-word.

[LiberalAndProud]

118. I don't know ...

fucking Bush ... just ... wrong.

No thank you. Not on his best day. Eewww.

[Iggo]

50. Because fuck.

You wanna go on a crusade against the word "fuck" in a room full of hundreds and hundreds of mostly American adults? I think it's a losing proposition, but you're free to try.

[Avalux]

52. Because we can. Why the intolerance Shemp Howard?

Specifically speaking about Bush, that word is almost a requirement. DU was created because of him. We have every right to call him whatever we wish.

[NuclearDem]

53. Fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck.

[pipi_k]

54. I'll have you know...

"F*cking Bush was wrong"?

I never fucked Bush.

that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[kentauros]

63. No, but he certainly fucked you,

and everyone else on this thread

[pipi_k]

196. And....

it was for eight very lonnnnnnnnnnng years too!

[Bonx]

56. Agreed & Rec'd

[City Lights]

57. My DU typing style is very similar to my speaking style

outside of DU. Tough shit if you don't fucking like it. Ignore me.

Oh, and welcome to DU!

[Trillo]

58. It's a First Amendment issue. NT

[mstinamotorcity2]

60. You may be a newbe!!!

But you gone learn today.

[Jamastiene]

104. Lol!

[giftedgirl77]

123. DUzy....

[CanSocDem]

190. It is this level of illiteracy...

...so prevalent throughout the country, that makes "vulgarity" useful.

When one word, with a variety of meanings and uses, can express your deep inner angst over some perceived injustice, where better than a 'Discussion Board' where one word answers and animated graffiti often passes as discourse.



.

[mstinamotorcity2]

248. the first thing DU

taught me was to look for my answers and ask questions. But all the op had to do was archive and they would have saw this coming

[closeupready]

61. Nobody needs education to participate here. Thus, the vulgar language as a substitute

for reasoning and logic. Because it's not as hard to think. Fewer headaches.

Right?

[nolabels]

62. We are living in world that is looking for enemies to subdue

Perhaps if you had a life in which you could pursue things you wanted to understand or accomplish instead of doing others bidding for them, maybe then the vulgarity would not alarm you.

As a mechanic i know such expression are often just forms of exasperation's and not of much a concern

[Jamastiene]

108. I don't know a person alive who has ever scraped their knuckles

when working on something who didn't let out some kind of expletive. There is just no way to do it. At least, I have never found a way to do it.

[Nye Bevan]

65. Because "FUCK that FUCKING FUCKER McCain" gets about ten times more recs and replies

than "I disagree strongly with John McCain's policy proposals".

[cyberswede]

68. Hell...THIS thread is getting more replies...

than "I disagree strongly with John McCain's policy proposals."

[merrily]

163. OPs presuming to tell DUers how to post usually do get many replies, as well they should.

[Rex]

224. Shemp and his fried eggs.

Gee...now where have I see the exact same concern trolling? Oh yeah, just a few days ago by another drive by poster that is never here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6170650

[merrily]

162. I call bullshit on that fucking jive.

[kentauros]

66. Personally, I think it's time for some Dead Kennedys

[zappaman]

80. "Now I got diaherrea"

Greatest last line ever!

[Lint Head]

69. Well Dick Cheney started it.

Curly was the funniest of the 3 Stooges.

[mnhtnbb]

71. I have to admit that my use of profanity increased exponentially when GW Bushie boy

was selected by the Supremes in 2000. And then when he stole the 2004 election,
well, my frequent use of foul language did not decline. However, I usually
try very hard to limit its use to the confines of my own home. My husband has heard
an earful.

I hope you enjoy listening to Joan's music. My husband and I went on one of The Nation's
annual cruises--in 2012--and none other than Joan Baez was a special guest. She sang--
just for our group--and here's a photo of her I took that night.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Warren Stupidity]

72. This OP is some fucked up confused bullshit.

You do know you asked for these responses, right?

[ileus]

74. It's what we do...It's who we are...

[zappaman]

75. Beats the fuck outta me.

[elleng]

76. I agree. Thanks, and welcome.

[Kalidurga]

83. Well if that isn't a pack of fornicating elephants I dunno what is.

What makes you think your stance is rational? I see nothing rational in asking people to constrain their language.

[lame54]

84. Fucking Freedom - It's the shit

[Jakes Progress]

86. Lots of giggly little boys think they are liberals.

[Warren DeMontague]

148. And lots of cranky old farts think it's still 1968 and they need to go "clean for Gene"

[Jakes Progress]

230. You imply

that I am old, that I am cranky, and that I am a fart.

You know none of that. But being very sure of yourself when you are so very wrong doesn't seem to bother you.

[Warren DeMontague]

232. You imply that the vast majority of DU that doesn't have a problem with the word "fuck", is

"giggly little boys" who only "think they are liberals".

I don't know diddly squat about you, but if your post in this thread doesn't scream "get off my lawn", nothing does.

But, okay, I'll bite. I'm a little curious as to the demographics of someone who grouses about DU being full of "giggly little boys", personally.

So-- Fess up. How old, truthfully? You don't have to be too specific. Like, I'm on the older end of Gen X. Maybe that qualifies as "little"?

[Jakes Progress]

252. Wha?

How does my post imply that the "vast majority" of DU does anything?

And you admitting to posting crap without knowing what you are talking about is a good start to a discussion.

I'm older than you, but how does my lawn have anything to do with this? Are you implying that those who think their privacy is something to be protected are old and irrelevant? Can I camp on your lawn? Can I bring my dogs? Can I make a campfire there? Otherwise, why the reference to lawns.

You read all kinds of things into posts that weren't there. You said I was "grousing" when I was simply observing. Would I then be allowed to say that you were whining? Or could I say that you were groveling? How about kvetching?

Age is all relative. "Little boys" come in all ages.

[Warren DeMontague]

253. Yeah, I thought so.

"Lots of giggly little boys think they are liberals."

Why don't you elaborate on that "observation". Is everyone who says "fuck" a "giggly little boy" and also NOT actually a "liberal"?

That's not grousing? Bull.

[Jakes Progress]

256. Thought didn't enter into it.

How does the quote you love to use say that "everyone" who giggles at the overuse of profanity is a little boy? This time do think.

These little boys (of all ages) love saying fuckkey fuck fuck and fuck fuck fuck. Tell me how that demonstrates their maturity. Hence little boys. The image is mostly of Bevis and Butthead -- "hurr hurr, he said butt". They think they are liberal because they believe saying fuck is what being a liberal means. I have never heard any of my liberal heroes unable to go four words without a fuck or shit or ass.

That's not grousing. If that is your definition of grousing, then the post you began this with about cranky old farts cannot be anything but. So you grouse that I am grousing. Kind of hypocritical, eh?

So how about actually addressing the things I asked in the post that led to this particular "Yeah, I thought so" avoidance. How about entering into a discussion rather than popping off then ducking. That would show some thought.

[Warren DeMontague]

259. Addressing the things you asked in your post? What did you even ask?

Edited to add: Oh, you asked why I said the thing about "get off my lawn".

You really aren't familiar with that? "Get off my lawn"?

If you can't see past the word "fuck" at all, to the philosophical orientation of the person saying it---- and only see a "foul mouthed vulgarian" or little boy or whatever, I can't help you.

What the everloving fuck is there to discuss, here? The word fuck bothers you. I'm sorry, really I am. The rest of the internet must drive you bonkers. (Here's a hint: Safe Search and Net Nanny)

[Jakes Progress]

268. Thought so.

Not even reading before you reply.

Here's how you actually discuss something. Here is how to reply to a post.

Yes. I am familiar with "get off my lawn". Sorry if I didn't spell my point out for you. I thought you could handle it. My post about your lawn reference was to show how ridiculous sloppy stereotype thinking is. I doubt you agree with the premise inherent in the "lawn" reference. If you had answered the questions, you might have seen how inane and counter productive your using it was.

See. You were jumping to the stereotype that you were complaining about. That is some sloppy thinking. I didn't say I couldn't see past the word fuck. I have used it more in this exchange than you. But you really aren't so silly that you think that the use of the word fuck is what the thread is about. It is about relying on vulgarity for emphasis. It is about yelling fuckety fuck fuck fuck as if that makes you something liberal. And just as you want to see only old farts as those who don't think that is cool, I see those that can't summon up a better way to argue as little boys pretending to be cool and hiding their lack of thinking behind a barrage of (what they think) are shock words.

Then there is the matter of why someone comes on DU in the first place. If your aim is to simply whack off verbally and entertain yourself, then your language only shows that that is so. If you want to find an arena where discussion and ideas can be exchanged with a variety of people, then letting your inner Soprano flow only cuts you off from those who don't appreciate language slackers. Note that the president never goes on television to sell his program by talking about the asshole fuckers who are fucking up the poor and middle class by aligning themselves with the fucking corporate shitheads who bought their asses. Why do you think that is?

There are mores in a society. Not morals. Operating outside the mores of society puts you out where you can have little effect on that society. See. I don't care about your morals as long as you don't hurt anyone. Yelling fuck every third word doesn't hurt anyone, but it does grate on some - some you may care to have a discussion with sometime. They are just as likely to jump to stereotypes as you have done. However, if you read a post that doesn't use the word fuck twelve times, do you decide that person is not worth engaging? Using standard register language leaves you to the quality of your thinking.

You referred me to net nanny. I refer you to the work of Martin Joos and the concept of socio language registers.

[DrDan]

170. bingo

[Warren DeMontague]

233. Right. Real liberals know about decorum

Real liberals, like Rick Santorum

[Jakes Progress]

250. Most of the indecorous

that I come in contact with are red-state rednecks who toss out the "fucks" like candy.

Most of the people I work with at the Democratic campaign functions only rarely resort to crudity as a method of expression. Nothing wrong with a "Fuck Bush" or two. But the people I work with at the shelter that are the crudest are idiots who are suffering under republican laws and programs but want to kill them some fuckin' Bama's and muslims. It speaks to a level of intelligence and a sense of what is fitting.

Your mileage may vary.

[Warren DeMontague]

254. Well, most of the sanctimonious, moralizing, purity crusaders I come into contact with

are Republicans.

Your mileage may vary, too!

[zappaman]

255. Me fucking too!

[Jakes Progress]

257. This wasn't about sanctimony, morals, or purity. But you knew that.

It's about the verbal slack and attempt to shock that many think makes them forthright and forceful.

And the majority of foul mouths I encounter are backward red necks and frothing tea party assholes. They are republicans.

[Warren DeMontague]

258. Slack? SLACK?

What's wrong with SLACK?

[Jakes Progress]

264. Peace on you.

Slack 'em if you got 'em.

But don't take the tight out of your thinking.

[Warren DeMontague]

266. I used to get tight

it didn't work for me.

[TransitJohn]

183. LOL.

And lots of doddering old geriatrics think they're relevant.

[Jakes Progress]

229. How old are you?

How old am I?

Just how small is your world view? How much can you know?

[TransitJohn]

231. 43. No idea. Not very. Never enough.

What are you on about?

[Jakes Progress]

251. Read your own posts.

Don't duck the obvious implications of your own words.

[Warren DeMontague]

260. You don't like the word "fuck", and yet, you do seem to like the word "duck"

.....interesting.

[Jakes Progress]

269. I like ducks.

Last edited Sun Feb 8, 2015, 02:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Do you like ducks? I like to fuck. I just don't do it on the bus stop bench.

Learn the difference between mores and morals. See words make a difference if you bother to think rather than just let the fuck flag fly.

(I also like luck. But not muck. It is yuck. My feelings about suck are situational.)

[Warren DeMontague]

235. why do you drive on the parkway, and park on the driveway?

[Bluenorthwest]

87. I once spent an entire day working and talking with Joan Baez, whose language was not 'pure' by any

means but who would easily call war, racism and homophobia vulgar.
So I have to say I don't get this post at all. To believe that language you don't like is 'childish' suggests you have not read much modern literature.
In closing, I offer you this here website which is actually called 'Fuck yeah, Joan Baez'.
http://fuckyeahjoanbaez.tumblr.com/

[TheKentuckian]

89. What the hell? Damn, what the fuck is this shit you're bitching about?

[Sheepshank]

94. I fucking love this goddam discussion

...lots of amazing nuggets. Good insight, and true, real life opinions to the nature, meaning, intensity and emotions of colorful language.

[F4lconF16]

99. +fucking1

I learned a surprising amount from this thread.

[ProfessorGAC]

95. Condescending Nonsense

Please think before your preach. It's wholly unwarranted. Lecturing adults about language on a discussion board is pompous AND it's tilting at windmills.

Just silly.

[Smarmie Doofus]

97. It's a generational thing, largely.

People who came of age politically in '65-'73 have one sensibility.

People who came after, another.

For some of us.... it was an effective way to cut thru the genocidal bullshit linguistics of the VN era.

Joanie.... btw... is not far removed from the epicenter of this divide.

Singing on the steps of Berkley's Spraul Hall, 1964 (?), next to Mario Savio, in what conservatives parodied as the birth of the "Filthy Speech Movement." ( Ya see.... it was ACTUALLY the "*Free* Speech Movement".)

Send her an email and get her take.

[Skittles]

98. OMG

all the crap going on and THIS is what bothers you?

[Jamastiene]

101. What the fuck are you talking about?

Without someone, somewhere, at some time, fucking, DU wouldn't even be here. Nor would the rest of the world. Tip: Go ahead and add me to your ignore list if you don't like the word, fuck, because I use it, daily. It's either that, or hold it all in and explode one day. I'd rather get it out of my system a little along the way.

[Historic NY]

105. LQQK at the fecking mess you caused....

[locks]

107. Totally agree with the poster

why do so many think they cannot post without the f word?

[antiquie]

109. Gimme an F U C K

[countryjake]

114. Come on...

[polly7]

136. One of the best songs ever.

Makes me sad, too, just as much as when I first heard it.

[polly7]

117. Sit back and relax, this is nice ....

[kentauros]

147. Maybe what this thread really needs is a closing song:

Besides, your video doesn't allow me to view it in the US

[polly7]

155. Love it!

LOL. I work at my friend's bar here once in a while and omg, we need to learn this one. Thank you!

The one I posted is just a silly remake of one we sometimes sing at two in the morning - there's a little stage where the owner has a bunch of instruments set up, he and my friends play (or anyone who wants to) and even I have mad keyboard skillz at that time in the morning. Yep, we're juvenile but that shit is fun for everybody in the bar.

Just type in 'smokie' who the fuck is alice (remastered) if you want to hear it.

[kentauros]

208. Found it!

And, to be honest, you could replace "Alice" with every other person's name in any song out there and use the same "Who the fuck is (your name here)?" refrain!

Sounds like y'all have a fun bar, too

[polly7]

213. We have a great bar!

It's small and friendly and our regulars are funny as hell - yes, occasionally they do change the name lol. I spend more time laughing than anything so it's not even like work. We just join all the tables into one very long line. We have jam sessions all the time, it's amazing how many talented people are in our little town. Plus, my dog knows every day to go down for some loving at happy hour. They've adopted him in the outside smoking section and let him in the gate .... he comes home after an hour or so, but he sure does enjoy himself.

[kentauros]

214. You live in the world of "Cheers"

only with a band and a dog!

[polly7]

216. Absolutely!

Lots of 'naughty' things on the walls and rock and biker stuff and the ladies' washroom is fantastic, we leave markers for graffiti and messages. One could spend all night there reading and come out a confident, happy person lol. The men's washroom ........... gah.

[kentauros]

217. The "wall art" reminds me of a place we used to have here,

on a street called Kipling. The bar was named Rudyard's

It was mostly a punk-music kind of bar, but they did host plenty of local bands. I recall the stairway to their second floor being painted in chalkboard black so people could write and draw on it. I don't recall much about the rest of the bar, though they did/do have good food, too

I found this quote about their past which is so appropriate: "Rudyard's was the Urban Animal neighborhood bar." (The Urban Animals were a street-skating group. I'll leave their name to what kind of people comprised their group, and no, they weren't furries! )

(They still exist, but had to move to another part of town many years ago...)

[polly7]

218. Sounds like an awesome place, great name lol.

I love the idea of painting in chalkboard - we just might have to do that! Maybe in the men's bathroom so we can erase.

Our bar is an old store, my friend and her partner can't really afford to fix it up much, some of the chairs are a bit wobbly and none of the tables match - it's dark, it's loud, and sometimes some pretty good fights we all mostly laugh about the next day. Most of the respectable people in town don't come in at all, but I love it. When someone new comes in somebody just pulls out a chair, and by the end of the night they have a nickname, just like the rest of us. Everyone is a bouncer for any crap that goes on and the tips are great! You can't beat small town bars. Fun.

[kentauros]

225. If your clientele will respect the repainted walls enough

not to scratch things into it or use permanent markers, then the chalkboard idea is pretty good. I don't know how humidity-porous it is, so you might have to ask a paint shop professional about that. As I recall, that blackboard paint is rather thick.

You might also want to look at FreeCycle. It may be the kind of thing that's best used in larger towns and cities, but it might be worth a try. Or just ask people to donate chairs or to fix them. Barter it!

[polly7]

238. The ladies washroom walls are so pretty and inspirational ... it's fun watching strangers

come out smiling. It's actually turned into an art room - there are hundreds of inspirational messages now and gorgeous drawings. The men's - we don't even give them markers! - they sneak them from the ladies room .... a very few like to write things they hope to shock us with so I take hairspray to it when I go in - it works great! for cleaning writing on walls. The boss laughs when I do it ....... but come on, obscenity isn't always funny to strangers who come in. A blackboard wall just for them would be perfect! I am going to do that. Such a good idea! Silly people.

We have a Kijiji shopping place online here now too where sometimes chairs show up in lots, but haven't really looked into it seriously yet. Maybe soon. I live in Canada, so am not sure about that FreeCycle, it wouldn't open for me, but thank you.

[kentauros]

240. That's odd that it wouldn't open for you in Canada,

as I can open Canadian sites way down here on the Gulf Coast, no problem. But, if you've got an alternative, go for it

FreeCycle is basically just a means of getting people together that either have something they want to get rid of (and the donation places won't take) or someone has something they want, and someone else might have it to give them. I gave away an old Wacom Grapphire drawing tablet years ago to an art student, and I have another similar tablet to give to someone now (it won't work on Win7, so I had to upgrade to a newer one.)

[polly7]

241. FreeCycle sounds like a great thing.

We have 'Buy and Sell' facebook pages for every town around here where people do the same, give away things or trade, sell them ... but chairs in lots are hard to come by. Our regulars are used to ours though ... they just set them aside for the next person that comes in Come up and see us sometime! It's called Lucky 13 Roadhouse, in Alida, SK. We'll save you a good chair!

[kentauros]

242. I might just have to do that!

I was married to a Canadian for almost eight years, yet I never visited up there. Have been to New Zealand, though

[polly7]

243. It is sooo cold here right now, New Zealand sounds like absolute heaven.

Come up in the summer!

[tblue37]

121. Ooooooohhhhh! You done did it now! nt

[GoneOffShore]

124. Well thanks for your concern.

I'll just leave this here for you.

[uppityperson]

126. DU can and is used to vent as all as to discuss, share, learn, snark. I cuss here

as I can not in the real world, as a frustration outlet.

[blogslut]

133. Words don't scare me.

In my opinion, true vulgarities are the result of actions.

[notadmblnd]

135. I don't know. Why do some people have steal screen names from famous dead people

and not create something new and unique for themselves? Why do supposed democrats and liberals show such intolerance when it comes to posters expressing themselves? Why are you a 3 Stooges fan when they were some of the most vulgar/violent comedians of their time? If all you've come here for is to complain, why bother coming here?

Might as well go listen to your music, your hit and run post is going to be filled with vulgar responses.

[MrMickeysMom]

139. How was Joan Baez?

There in some things in moments of civil discourse that are going to rub you the wrong way here.

Welcome to DU.

[Warren DeMontague]

150. She was FUCKING AWESOME

[merrily]

166. The OP has been a member of DU since September 2013.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

140. Put all these fuckers on ignore

But warning, you're going to be lonely.

[99Forever]

141. So you are...

... for free speech BUT?

Then sir, you are not for free speech. Period.

[NaturalHigh]

144. I don't know, but I love your DU name.

[BubbaFett]

145. Well fuck me nekkid!

bless your heart!

[Enthusiast]

146. It's a cherished tradition. Don't fuck it up.

Righties® are afraid of the word Fuck. They even refer to it as the "F-Bomb". How juvenile.

[Warren DeMontague]

149. Oh for fuckitty fuck fuck's sake.

Not this fucking shit again.

[Warren DeMontague]

153. You take your username from a guy who settled arguments by jamming his finger into peoples' eyes

People in fucking glass houses, and whatnot.

[Orrex]

159. Why I oughta...

Woob woob woob.

[ann---]

154. I agree with you

100%. It's a sign of the times. The degeneration of society where civilized discourse will eventually become extinct.

Maybe DU could try to set an example by keeping it decent and turn the tide?

[Orrex]

158. Oh, please.

Profanity has been a vital part of human discourse for as long as humans have been pissing, shitting and fucking.

"Civilized discourse" has always been a wispy veil over the writhing mass of human reality.

[ann---]

165. That's your

opinion of what "civilized" discourse is. It isn't mine. Profanity and vulgarity shut down discourse in many cases. I tend to ignore comments that are laced with them - no matter what the point is they are trying to make. It lowers the standards and is very uncomfortable for some people who have a different values (religious or not).

[Orrex]

167. Well, why don't you educate us all as to what "civilized discourse" is.

Dear me, such an exegesis would be most enlightening.

[ann---]

174. Discussion

that does not include vulgarity, profanity or personal insults.

[Orrex]

180. That's a circular definition.

Kind of self-serving, to be honest.

Look, I get it that you don't like vulgarity, and I'm not foolish enough to pretend that it's appropriate in all settings (applying for a loan, interviewing for a job, delivering a eulogy, etc.)

I'm simply not impressed by ostentatious despair that profanity is indicative of a degenerate society, or similar nonsense. Vulgarity is and always has been part of humanity, and to pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

[DrDan]

172. agree - I tend to ignore those posts with inconsequential profanity

seems as though many equate use of profanity with proof of being a liberal/progressive. "Look at what I can do and you can't do anything about it."

often juvenile. often bullying.

It does seem to get better once the first-period bell rings, however.

[Orrex]

157. I just wanted to say that I feel you were under-represented in the Stooge canon

[Katashi_itto]

160. Fuckty fucking fuck

[merrily]

161. For me, it was OPs like yours.

Before I noted control freaks attempted to control the content of posts of others, my posts rarely contained swear words. Now, I try to remember to include at least one cuss word per post. It's an effort, but fucking worth it.

[cyberswede]

192. LOL

Fucking worth it, indeed.

[merrily]

194. No joke. It was a few OP's scolding DUers about using "fuck" and similar words that got me cussing.

One one of the threads, I kept defending and a poster asked me why I was defending use of curse words, given that I did not use curse words in my own posts. So, I decided to use them. (Needless to say, the idiocy of assuming I had no reason to defend others because I wasn't cussing at the time was additional inspiration.)

I figure each poster gets to control the content of his or her own posts and that's all. Apparently, that is not enough for some. They think they should have something to say about the contents of everyone else's posts, too.

Screw that.

[PeaceNikki]

202. Amen. And if it works as a sort of "asshole repellent"? Awesome.

[merrily]

204. Then, the word "asshole" may itself be a sort of asshole repellent.

[PeaceNikki]

207. Fuck, yeah!!

[One_Life_To_Give]

169. Takes skill to really insult someone and make them appreciate it.

" I don't intend to be buried until I am dead" takes thought and skill

"Fuck Off" is just plain easy

[LWolf]

171. My answer:

Last edited Wed Feb 4, 2015, 09:51 AM - Edit history (1)

While I listen to Baez and Dylan myself.

http://vimeo.com/24750213

A first point about free speech and censorship: a natural response to attempts to censor are to hit back with whatever is being censored. So when the word "fuck" is a "vulgar" word that isn't acceptable in public discourse, it's going to be used quite a bit outside of more formal settings. DU is not a formal setting, and I think many of us sometimes post things here to vent our anger and frustration; vulgar language fits.

As a lifelong lover of words and language, and a language arts teacher, I love the incredible variety of words we have to choose from, and the creative use of those words. For my middle school students whose natural inclination to rebel and use "adult" and "bad" words is an issue, I go to Shakespeare and his very creative curses. They love that. They delve for long, involved curses that they can use in front of anyone without getting in trouble. Of course, when someone bursts out with “You scullion! You rampallian! You fustilarian! I’ll tickle your catastrophe!” the object of the curse is more likely to grin, and those close enough to hear burst into laughter, than take offense. It's also a good defuser of adolescent angst.

Sometimes a situation calls for strong, blunt language that gets right to the point. I think it's okay to use "fuck" when the occasion calls for it. I'm not offended by it. It's not a personal attack, like some other vulgar words.

If the speaker grew up in a home that included "fuck" in their everyday vocabulary, he or she is not going to think it's vulgar.

That said, often words like "fuck" are over-used; the speaker is simply being lazy, or doesn't have a richer vocabulary, or doesn't care about communicating with elegance or creativity, or wants to offend, or any number of other reasons.

[PeaceNikki]

177. Great reply. It's too bad that the OP didn't *really* want to discuss or know profanity is used here

He/she has not replied to any of the actual discussion on the topic, only REPLIED IN ALL CAPS TO THE PEOPLE WHO DARED USED THIS DECENT THREAD TO THROW AROUND MORE F-BOMBS!!!11!!

It really reeks of a finger wagging more than an actual dialog from the OP.

[betsuni]

175. Henry Miller: "Everybody says sex is obscene ...

the only true obscenity is war." Also too, kissing leads to fucking. Nipples.

[KingCharlemagne]

176. From the point of view of linguistics, few words in the English language are as versatile

and multi-purpose as 'fuck':

Noun: I don't give a fuck what you think.
Verb: "OK, Sheriff, we're going to fuck you now. But we're going to fuck you slow." (H/T George Carlin's Seven Words)
Imperative: "Fuck you."
Adjective: Joan Baez is a fucking Goddess.
Adverb: Joan Baez fucking rules.
Cooking Exclamation: "Fuck! I burned myself."

Come to think of it, 'fuck' may be my favorite all-purpose word in the English language. Certainly use it as much or more than any other word.

[PeaceNikki]

178. afuckingmen.

[KingCharlemagne]

182. I have no fucking clue what part of speech that

is, maybe a 'neologism'?

[PeaceNikki]

186. it's also the universal middle name: Jesus Fucking Christ,

Dick Fucking Cheney, etc.

I agree, it's my favorite word to use in the entire English language.

[KingCharlemagne]

187. OT, but have you heard about the "Kee-rist' bird? So-called

because it lives in the now-vanishing arctic tundra and, when it lands on an iceberg, goes "Kee-rist, it's cold!"

[TransitJohn]

179. Sweet. Another fucking prude.

[Paper Roses]

181. I think this thread breaks the record for 'F' words.

BTW, I agree with the poster. Ok, my post count is not huge but I've been around since 2005.
Many old timers like me remember times when, as kids, if we said something like 'damn, we got our mouth washed out with soap.

Say what you want, this site keeps me sane, even if I cringe at some of the language.

[KingCharlemagne]

185. When you get a chance, listen to George Carlin's epic routine, "The Seven

Words You Can't Say on Television."

I can almost guarantee you will be in stitches by the end.

[Bluenorthwest]

193. And yet, old timers like you remember when if someone said 'I'm gay' they'd be arrested

Right now, in 29 States, absolutely G Rated language is used to deny protection in employment to LGBT people. I think that is offensive language.

[merrily]

201. Thing is, we are not children and the OP is not our mom or our authority figure.

[reddread]

184. how else can you possibly modify war criminals, torture, warrantless surveilance et al?

you need to be able to dynamically differentiate between say a smooooothh criminal

and/or

some unaccountable fucking treasonous war criminal that stains the lives and souls and conscience
of every thinking American?

vulgarity on DU is rhapsodizing against your fellow citizens for whatever reason they do..
uncommon cause?

[KansDem]

191. "...The second is more like a childish playground taunt."

That describes the Bush Administration, so "F*cking Bush was wrong"

[Liberalynn]

198. When I am mad enough to swear

I'm not doing it as a means to persuade anyone to my point of view, but rather as a way of venting my anger and frustration at their actions. I consider it healthier than for example than punching them in the nose. A well chosen curse word vents just enough of the steam to keep that from happening at least for me.

[RKP5637]

203. Oh no, this will start a DU Fuck Storm, worse than a blizzard! n/t

[jeff47]

205. As a serious answer

Most of the way we express emotion is non-verbal. We evolved looking at each other when we talked. Tone of voice, the appearance of our face, flushed or pale skin, and similar things display how we feel about something far more effectively than the actual words we speak.

Mediums like DU strip that away. You can't see me. The words I type could be said in rage, fear, sadness or they could be completely unemotional. So we have to use markers in what we type to indicate the emotion we want to express.

Curse words are one of those markers. Typing in ALL CAPS is another. Emojis (things like ) are yet another.

[Tsiyu]

206. Yes, Shemp Howard, there is profanity here.

Please look at the word in the url, in the name of this site.

"Underground."

This site started when it was almost scary to be a Democrat. VULGARITY was having to listen to all of the crap that ** ( someone will tell you who that is maybe ) and his handlers spewed about Democrats and liberals.

VULGARITY was what happened in Florida, and what happened in our nation's highest court, when the will of the people was crushed by the political whims of the powerful and affluent.

They delicately crafted the boorish, nasty, name-calling, knee-jerking political atmosphere we endure today.

When DemocraticUNDERGROUND was formed, it was formed by people who were stunned that the Supremes would install **, and it was formed by people being called everything plus the Devil by the Right Wing.

So people went UNDERGROUND.

You are one who has never been a few hours away from a shower, a hot meal, a civilized existence perhaps? I only speculate.

When you hang out with people who have had enough, they don't always care about your delicate sensibilities.

If symbols: WORDS are the focus of your "Vulgarity Patrol," you may not want to hang out in the UNDERGROUND.


Edit to add: obligatory, authentic DU FUCK

[planetc]

219. An interesting argument, but perhaps historically inaccurate

I am thinking here of members of the Underground Railway, and thinking that I doubt many of them used much profanity in speaking to each other. Many of them were Christians, as was, of course, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Without use of profanities or vulgarities in public, they all accomplished much good for the emancipation and further liberation of African Americans.

What I am suggesting is that not all "undergrounds" converse in curses or vulgarities. Also, those national figures we revere, and would like to see sworn in as President, because they have already been elected, Albert Gore and John Kerry, have never used such language in public. If we are serious about advancing the policies and candidates of the Democratic Party, then perhaps we should keep in practice at speaking the way our heroes and heroines do.

And I am really intrigued by your question for Mr. Howard:

"You are one who has never been a few hours away from a shower, a hot meal, a civilized existence perhaps? I only speculate. "

Are you suggesting that if we haven't been homeless, or lost behind enemy lines in a war, we have no right to discuss this issue? I hope you're not suggesting that, because I don't think it's a position I'd want to defend. We are all, I hope, working for a world in which there would be no such thing as a homeless person, and in which war would be a thing of the past. A world in which war would be seen for the obscenity it is, and our congresspeople would be ashamed to have one homeless person in their district.

[Tsiyu]

227. It is glorious and noble to have high ideals for society

It is also glorious and noble to work with the society you have.

Don't judge. Do you judge the words of desperately poor people because there's dirt on their clothes?


Or, as L. Cohen might say, with different punctuation, no doubt:

You say I took the name in vain

but I don't even know the name

and if I did, well really, what's it to ya'?

There's a blaze of light in every word.

Doesn't matter which you've heard:

the broken, or the holy halleluiah.

'Fuck' is of such common usage, if anyone truly is still clutching pearls over the word, he or she is the person who needs to adapt. This is not the '50s, the '60s, nor is it Victorian times.

In my humble opinion, of course.

Saying these words is the culture here, and always has been. It is what it is, as this thread amply illustrates.

[SammyWinstonJack]

210. "F*cking Bush not just wrong but ewww. Oh and Bu$h WAS fucking wrong.

[PeaceNikki]

220. Are you going to own up to the fact that you never REALLY wanted 'rational discussion' on this?

You didn't reply to anyone who actually tried to discuss rationally with you.

Was your intent to discuss or admonish the entire forum for doing something you don't like?

[Shemp Howard]

261. That's a fair question.

To be honest with you, it did not seem, to me, that many of the responses were all that interested in a discussion.

Take a good look at this thread. The huge majority of the responses fall into one of two groups. Either it's vulgarity for the sake of vulgarity, or it's a twisting of my question "Why the vulgarity?" into me saying: "Do not ever be vulgar."

I really was interested in a debate here. Perhaps my original post was not clear enough, although I tried to phrase it as best I could. At any rate, this thread did teach me something about DU. As to what that is...I'm not interested in debating.

Please take no personal offense here. None is meant.

[polly7]

263. So, have we converted you?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

221. When dealing with shrink wrap, recalcitrant computers, or politicians, profanity is a useful tool.

[Rex]

222. Oh look...it's Shemp Howard.

[valerief]

226. Have you discovered our Ignore feature? I'm using it on you. Buh-bye. nt

[tabasco]

234. Deal with it in your own special way

I don't really care about your bullshit pollyanna sensibilities.

[Warren DeMontague]

236. There are very few things it is possible to get a majority of DU to agree on, these days.

The goofiness of your hand-wringing swearing OP is apparently one of them.

Congratufuckinglations.

[damnedifIknow]

239. Damned if I know

Well I just had to.

[AtheistCrusader]

244. No, it's "Bush was fucking wrong". Alternatively, "Bush is a lying motherfucker and a mass

murderer."

[PowerToThePeople]

246. Republicans are vulgar, inhumaine creatures.

Just the thought of them brings out the bad in otherwise decent human beings.

[roamer65]

247. Buck Fush.

[Arugula Latte]

249. Never fear, Shemp Howard!

I shall fetch your smelling salts, direct you to the fainting couch, loosen your corset, and make you a nice mint julep while I'm at it!

[TBF]

262. Michel de Montaigne ~

I have often seen people uncivil by too much civility, and tiresome in their courtesy.
Michel de Montaigne

[Blaukraut]

267. I find homophobia, racism, sexism, etc much more offensive than the f-word

To each his/her own, I guess.

[Turborama]

270. Looks like you need some Sons of Butcher for that ailment...