Where are vaccines manufactured? Remember this story?

[Ramses]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-12-23/china-suspends-use-of-hepatitis-b-vaccine-after-four-babies-die

Vaccine manufacturing and production is a huge industry in China. Along with pet food treats that have killed 1000's of animals in the US, and food and poultry safety violations that occur everyday in China, maybe its time to look where the vaccines that we give our children every day are made and shipped to us.

The science behind vaccination is sound and makes perfect sense. I think citizens are concerned about the additives and safety problems that have been associated with vaccine products, NOT the science behind it.

[CK_John]

1. Isn't that where Apple makes all those phones????

[Ramses]

4. yes. With slave labor and suicide safety netting around buildings

your point?

[Liberal Veteran]

2. Here ya go.

Many vaccines aren't made in the United States anymore. You can be reassured that the vaccines in the yearly United States Childhood Immunization Schedule are made in countries where the FDA can closely monitor the manufacturing process of the vaccines for safety though.

For example, Rotarix, the rotavirus vaccine that was approved in April 2008 by the FDA, is manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium.

Where Are Other Vaccines Made?

ActHIB (Hib) - Sanofi Pasteur SA in Lyon, France
Adacel (Tdap) - Sanofi Pasteur Limited in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Boostrix (Tdap) - GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium and Wavre, Belgium
Daptacel (DTaP) - Sanofi Pasteur Limited in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Energix-B (Hepatitis B) - GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium
FluMist (Influenza) - MedImmune Vaccines, Inc. in Gaithersburg, Maryland and Wyeth in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Fluzone (Influenza) - Sanofi Pasteur, Inc. in Swiftwater, Pennsylvania
Gardasil (HPV) - Merck & Co., Inc., West Point, PA.
Havrix (Hepatitis A) - GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium
Infanrix (DTaP) - GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals, but manufactured by Chiron-Behring GmbH & Co. in Marburg, Germany
IPOL (IPV) - Sanofi Pasteur SA in Lyon, France
Menactra (Meningococcal) - Sanofi Pasteur, Inc. in Swiftwater, Pennsylvania
Pediarix (DTap, IPV, Hepatitis B) - GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium
PedvaxHIB (Hib) - Merck & Co., Inc., in West Point, Pennsylvania
Prevnar (Pneumococcal) - Lederle Laboratories in Sanford, North Carolina and Pearl River, New York

The FDA states that vaccines are "rigorously scrutinized for their effectiveness and safety" and that the FDA requires manufacturers to test vaccine samples from each lot and "carries out spot-testing of its own."

[Ramses]

7. The FDA does not have the authority and cannot monitor the manufacturing process on China

Or India, or any number of other countries that have huge vaccine industries. The FDA has come under fire dozens of times about looking the other way and being infiltrated by industry insiders in regards to many things they supposedly monitor. From vaccines, to dozens of food/pet food violations/drugs killing people in the US that have had little to no peer reviewed oversight.

[Liberal Veteran]

12. Well, then. Guess it is good that none of those places I listed are CHINA or INDIA, right?

Or is the intent to spread doubt rather than information?

[Ramses]

15. Yes, none of the places you listed are the major manufacturers of the billions of vaccines shipped

to the US every year. China and India are, and you seem to conveniently ignore that.

[greatauntoftriplets]

67. Someone may be about to go bye-bye....

[William769]

68. Sometimes the honesty's to much.

[cyberswede]

69. *snerk*

[bettyellen]

14. The World Health Organization seems to be taking on this role-

And from this, it looks like as of last year, nothing has been intoridcuedinto the American market. Interesting issue.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-enters-global-vaccine-marketplace-for-the-first-time/

[pnwmom]

38. Yeah, right. And Merck's MMR is effective, even though whistleblower scientists

say the mumps component is not effective, and there is an ongoing lawsuit accusing Merck of fraud.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html

According to the whistleblowers' court documents, Merck's misconduct was far-ranging: It "failed to disclose that its mumps vaccine was not as effective as Merck represented, (ii) used improper testing techniques, (iii) manipulated testing methodology, (iv) abandoned undesirable test results, (v) falsified test data, (vi) failed to adequately investigate and report the diminished efficacy of its mumps vaccine, (vii) falsely verified that each manufacturing lot of mumps vaccine would be as effective as identified in the labeling, (viii) falsely certified the accuracy of applications filed with the FDA, (ix) falsely certified compliance with the terms of the CDC purchase contract, (x) engaged in the fraud and concealment describe herein for the purpose of illegally monopolizing the U.S. market for mumps vaccine, (xi) mislabeled, misbranded, and falsely certified its mumps vaccine, and (xii) engaged in the other acts described herein to conceal the diminished efficacy of the vaccine the government was purchasing."

These fraudulent activities, say the whistleblowers, were designed to produce test results that would meet the FDA's requirement that the mumps vaccine was 95 per cent effective. To the whistleblowers' delight, the judge dismissed Merck's objections to the case proceeding, finding the whistleblowers had plausible grounds on all of the claims lodged against Merck.

[jeff47]

52. Which is why there's hundreds of thousands of mumps cases every year.

Oh wait...there aren't.

Before vaccination, there were 186,000 cases per year.
Now?

Mumps is no longer very common in the United States. From year to year, mumps cases can range from roughly a couple hundred to a couple thousand. For example in 2010, there were 2,612 cases, and in 2012, there were 229.

[pnwmom]

57. There were larger outbreaks in 2006 and 2009 -- before the lawsuit

was brought in 2010. Merck has managed to delay proceedings so it is still ongoing.

http://www.cdc.gov/mumps/outbreaks.html

In 2009- 2010, two large outbreaks occurred.

One outbreak involved about 3,000 people and mostly affected high school-aged students who were part of an insular religious community in New York City and attended schools in which they had very close contact. The index case-patient was an 11-year-old member of the religious community who had returned from the United Kingdom where a large mumps outbreak was occurring.

The second outbreak involved about 500 people, mostly school-aged children, in the U.S. Territory of Guam.

In 2006, the United States experienced a multi-state mumps outbreak involving more than 6,500 reported cases. This resurgence predominantly affected college-aged students living in the Midwest, with outbreaks occurring on many different Midwestern college campuses.

[jeff47]

59. If they had changed the vaccine, that would be important. (nt)

[pnwmom]

62. If Merck deliberately provided false information to the FDA, as is alleged by the scientists

in the lawsuit, that would be very important.

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/merck-mumps-motions-whistleblowers-the-actual-story/

In 1997 the FDA required Merck to conduct effectiveness testing of MMRII. The relators claim that Merck engaged in a variety of more or less dishonest testing practices to bump up the vaccine’s effectiveness they reported.

These included:
• Using the vaccine virus to test effectiveness rather than the wild virus.
• Using animal antibodies to help manage the testing rate.
• Faking the result of the tests that used animal antibodies.

SNIP
The major professional textbook on vaccines (Vaccines: Expert Consult – Online and Print, 6e (Vaccines (Plotkin/ Orenstein)) see page 435) mentions that “The effectiveness of mumps vaccines determined in field studies (Table 22-9) is lower than efficacy determined in clinical trials. Effectiveness of a single dose of the Jeryl Lynn strain of mumps vaccine (given as a monovalent vaccine or as trivalent MMR) under conditions of routine use is approximately 78% (95% CI, 75%-82%), compared with 95% or more demonstrated in efficacy trials.”

SNIP

Note that there can still have been misdeeds around testing – including faking result – even if the issue is waning immunity. Fact finding can, hopefully, shed further light on this question. And if there are, it’s appropriate to put them in the open and penalize Merck accordingly. Faking test results is – obviously – unacceptable, and if proven, merits a strong sanction.

[jeff47]

66. Except you were claiming a change in infection rate was evidence of that.

But the vaccine was not changed during that time period.

Nothing in biology is black and white. Everything is probability. That probability is itself measured via probability. When stats like "the measles part of the MMR vaccine is 98% effective" are mentioned, there's two probabilities - the effectiveness of the vaccine, and the likelihood that we measured the effectiveness accurately.

What their suit comes down to is the second probability. How likely is it that the effectiveness was measured accurately. One bit of evidence is their claims of mistakes - deliberate or not. Another bit of evidence is how effective the vaccine has proven to be in the real world.

A quick Google search hasn't found what Merck claims the effectiveness of the mumps part of MMR is, so for the sake of this discussion I'm gonna pretend it's 98% like the measles part. How's that stack up against "the real world"?

(It's a lot more complicated than this, but I'm gonna make a lot of assumptions to make it simpler and round numbers because this is a discussion board and not an academic journal.)
In a "good" year, they got about 200,000 cases down to about 200. That would mean the vaccine is roughly 99.9% effective.
In a "bad" year, they got about 200,000 cases down to about 6000. That would mean the vaccine is roughly 97% effective.
(Again, this ignores 3 metric craploads of confounding factors and complications.)

So a claim of 98% effective doesn't look like it's way out of line. Even with all the "make it easy" assumptions, it's about where the real world ended up. The vaccine couldn't be only, say, 50% effective or the real-world results would look much worse.

If the "real" number turns out to be 90% effective and Merck covered it up they should lose their suit. But the vaccine still works well enough as a public health tool. What 90% would mean is there's room for someone else to create a better vaccine.

Which, btw, we would have found out anyway. Because we do actually monitor real-world results over the long run. So a cover-up really wouldn't help Merck for very long.

[pnwmom]

70. That was only one piece of evidence -- the scientists are claiming to have much more.

And while it is true that a vaccine doesn't have to be 95% effective, a manufacturer isn't supposed to claim a degree of effectiveness that they know to be false. Among other things, it discourages other manufacturers from trying to produce better vaccines.

All of this remains to be proven in court. So why don't we just wait and see what happens? Maybe the scientists are making this all up, and their own evidence -- showing that Merck deliberately provided false statements to the FDA -- is fake. I doubt it, but we will see.

[jeff47]

71. As I said, if the claims are correct, Merck should lose

We'll see what happens.

So why don't we just wait and see what happens?

Because people are dying.

False whistleblowers are a large part of the "evidence" used in the anti-vaxx movement. For example, Wakefield is revered for being a whistleblower despite the fact that he lied.

So it actually is important to look at the real world results instead of just waiting for the court case. Because when the courts rule 5+ years from now, the whistleblowers will already be celebrated heroes, even if their claims were bogus.

[Major Nikon]

3. Hep B vaccines used in the US are made in the US or Europe

Corruption is also a huge industry in China.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/11/business/worldbusiness/11execute.html

[zappaman]

5. Spanx are made in America!

So that's cool!

[BainsBane]

8. Don't forget the Spanx for men!

At $114 for a T-shirt, it better damn well be made in America.

http://www.bangandstrike.com/underwear-c20/slimming-underwear-c41/spanx-for-men-zoned-performance-compression-crew-neck-tshirt-white-p13685

[zappaman]

11. $114 for a t shirt?

Man, I'm in the wrong business!

[BainsBane]

6. So is the computer you are typing on

your phone, and just about everything else you use.

Xenophobia is a pretty cynical way to justify anti-vaccination arguments. You want a world without vaccines? Look at the Americas circa 1490 vs. 1590. There were no vaccines, and 90% of the Indigenous population was decimated due to small pox. There are accounts of the virus having wiped out entire villages before the Spanish ever arrived because the airborne virus preceded them (see Inga Clendinnen, Ambivalent Conquests). That is the world you folks would recreate.

[Ramses]

9. I want a world where money is not the sole objective, and not making shitty toxic products

to be pawned off on human beings and pets and any other living creature. I want a world with properly made and effective vaccines, not toxic products being sold to profit off of people's lives.

[BainsBane]

10. If your goal is to strike at capitalism

Doing it in ways that costs lives is pretty damn shitty.

There isn't going to be a world where profit isn't the goal, not in our lifetime. Millions of people dead from preventable diseases won't change that.

[Ramses]

13. The US killed over a million in IRAQ alone, and it was very profitable

Please speak for yourself regarding your last paragraph. Not all of us are out to screw over everyone for a buck. It may be foreign to you, but there are actually people who care for others and are not sociopaths

[BainsBane]

43. Iraq has nothing to do with vaccines

What you do has very little to do with global capitalism. Wishing profit didn't matter won't change a thing, and You aren't going to change the world by feeling superior to the rest of us who don't want to see the people die needlessly from disease. You start with some xenophobic bullshit about vaccines being made in China, as though that should be enough to convince us that global diseases really aren't a big deal. Now you prattle on about Iraq, as though that is actually remotely related to this discussion. It certainly doesn't justify the anti-vaxer crusade to bring us back to the Middle Ages. I don't know what your game is, but it isn't remotely convincing. You need to try a lot harder.

[bhikkhu]

16. Merck makes the MMR vaccine in North Carolina

...but thanks for the scare, and thanks for implying that its made the same as contaminated chinese pet food - really helpful.

[Ramses]

17. Merck is but one of dozens of companies in the vaccine industry

and most are NOT made in this country but shipped to us under little to no oversight whatsoever by the FDA. And yes, the companies in China that make toxic pet food among other things is a huge problem. Along with unregulated companies that make our vaccines that are shipped here and used on millions of children.

[bhikkhu]

18. Glaxo-Kline makes MMR in Marrietta Pennsylvania

I suspect that they are not among the "unregulated companies that make our vaccines" you mention. Can you name any that are unregulated?

Fear-mongering for effect, or do you have any facts or evidence to back it up?

[Ramses]

19. Every company in China and India that also make those vaccines are UNREGULATED

and they are shipped here every day. Glaxo-Kline making a vaccine here means NOTHING as to safety and regulations of the billions of vaccines that are shipped here under little to NO regulation or oversight by the FDA. Are you having difficulty with reading comprehension?

[bhikkhu]

21. I'm having a difficulty finding any facts in what you say

...as you neglect to mention any verifiable facts. If I go to the doctor and get vaccinated, which "unregulated" vaccines are shipped here that I should be worried about specifically?

You don't name any, so I suggest you are just spewing nonsense and fear, perhaps out of boredom, or ignorance. I'm only being obnoxious because I hope you might take the time to research your own claim and come up with something useful.

[dionysus]

44. he's bullshitting, rather poorly.. this is the weakest anti-vax thread yet...

[Ramses]

20. This is from the NIH .read and educate yourself on the vaccines in China that are being shipped here

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4007128/

[bhikkhu]

23. That says nothing about vaccines being shipped here

but surveys the efforts to eradicate measles in China. Try again?

[herding cats]

24. All I'm seeing is stuff about China using immunizations for measles.

Maybe you should go lift the relevant passage and post it here? I've read it twice and can't find what you're trying to point out.

[Ramses]

25. google china and india vaccines

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/01/03/china-probes-vaccine-makers-amid-heightened-scrutiny/

[herding cats]

26. No, you provide me with something to substantiate your claims.

They're yours not mine. Prove your point with an actual verifiable excerpt to prove there's no oversight whatsoever by the FDA and that the US has currently approved vaccines from China.

The link you just provided has nothing, again.

[pnwmom]

39. Thanks for mentioning the MMR vaccine manufacturer whose own scientists have accused it of fraud

in connection with the mumps vaccine. The lawsuit is moving forward after the judge denied Merck's effort to have it tossed out.


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html

According to the whistleblowers' court documents, Merck's misconduct was far-ranging: It "failed to disclose that its mumps vaccine was not as effective as Merck represented, (ii) used improper testing techniques, (iii) manipulated testing methodology, (iv) abandoned undesirable test results, (v) falsified test data, (vi) failed to adequately investigate and report the diminished efficacy of its mumps vaccine, (vii) falsely verified that each manufacturing lot of mumps vaccine would be as effective as identified in the labeling, (viii) falsely certified the accuracy of applications filed with the FDA, (ix) falsely certified compliance with the terms of the CDC purchase contract, (x) engaged in the fraud and concealment describe herein for the purpose of illegally monopolizing the U.S. market for mumps vaccine, (xi) mislabeled, misbranded, and falsely certified its mumps vaccine, and (xii) engaged in the other acts described herein to conceal the diminished efficacy of the vaccine the government was purchasing."

These fraudulent activities, say the whistleblowers, were designed to produce test results that would meet the FDA's requirement that the mumps vaccine was 95 per cent effective. To the whistleblowers' delight, the judge dismissed Merck's objections to the case proceeding, finding the whistleblowers had plausible grounds on all of the claims lodged against Merck.

[bhikkhu]

58. There's a good account of that here:

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/merck-mumps-motions-whistleblowers-the-actual-story/

...written before the current moving-forward on the case. Its really an example of how good the regulatory system is, and how the whistleblower system is supposed to work. Its worth noting that the news is old - related to Merck's compliance to effectiveness-testing in 1997.

Recommendations for those worried about having gotten a sub-par shot of Merck mumps vaccine are to get a booster shot. Merck's contention is that a "waning immunity" was predictable over the years, and they recommend booster shots for that reason anyway.

[pnwmom]

61. Thank you for this well balanced account. As the author states, if Merck knowingly made

false statements or provided false information to the FDA, that would be a very serious matter, regardless of whether waning immunity was the cause of the outbreaks. This is the key issue the court will have to decide.

[herding cats]

22. Complete List of Vaccines Licensed for Immunization and Distribution in the US

Vaccines with Supporting Documents

Adenovirus Type 4 and Type 7 Vaccine, Live, Oral Barr Labs, Inc.
Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed Emergent BioDefense Operations Lansing, Inc. (Biothrax)
BCG Live Organon Teknika Corp (TICE BCG, BCG Vaccine)
Diphtheria & Tetanus Toxoids Adsorbed, STN 103919 Sanofi Pasteur, Inc
Diphtheria & Tetanus Toxoids & Acellular Pertussis Vaccine Adsorbed Sanofi Pasteur, Inc (Tripedia); GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals (Infanrix); Sanofi Pasteur, Ltd (Daptacel)
Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Adsorbed, Hepatitis B (Recombinant) and Inactivated Poliovirus Vaccine Combined GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals (Pediarix)
Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Adsorbed and Inactivated Poliovirus Vaccine GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals (Kinrix)
Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids and Acellular Pertussis Adsorbed, Inactivated Poliovirus and Haemophilus b Conjugate (Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate) Vaccine Sanofi Pasteur, Ltd (Pentacel)
Haemophilus b Conjugate Vaccine (Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate) Sanofi Pasteur, SA (ActHIB); GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals, S.A., (Hiberix)
Haemophilus B Conjugate Vaccine (Meningococcal Protein Conjugate) Merck Sharp & Dohme Corp. (PedvaxHIB)
Haemophilus b Conjugate (Meningococcal Protein Conjugate) and Hepatitis B (Recombinant) Vaccine Merck & Co, Inc (Comvax)
Hepatitis A Vaccine, Inactivated GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals (Havrix); Merck & Co, Inc (Vaqta)
Hepatitis A Inactivated and Hepatitis B (Recombinant) Vaccine GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals (Twinrix)
Hepatitis B Vaccine (Recombinant) Merck & Co, Inc (Recombivax HB); GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals (Engerix-B)
Human Papillomavirus Vaccine Merck & Co, Inc (Gardasil), Merck & Co, Inc (Gardasil 9), GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals (Cervarix)
Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent CSL Limited; MedImmune LLC; ID Biomedical Corporation of Quebec; Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics Limited; Sanofi Pasteur, Inc.
Influenza Virus Vaccine, H5N1 (for National Stockpile) Sanofi Pasteur, Inc
Influenza A (H5N1) Virus Monovalent Vaccine, Adjuvanted ID Biomedical Corporation of Quebec
Influenza Virus Vaccine, Quadrivalent, Types A and Types B MedImmune, LLC (FluMist Quadrivalent); GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals(Fluarix Quadrivalent); Sanofi Pasteur Inc.(Fluzone Quadrivalent); ID Biomedical Corporation of Quebec(FluLaval Quadrivalent)
Influenza Virus Vaccine, Trivalent, Types A and B Multiple manufacturers
Japanese Encephalitis Vaccine, Inactivated, Adsorbed Intercell Biomedical (Ixiaro)
Japanese Encephalitis Virus Vaccine Inactivated Research Foundation for Microbial Diseases of Osaka University (JE-Vax)
Measles, Mumps and Rubella Virus Vaccine, Live Merck & Co, Inc (M-M-R II)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella and Varicella Virus Vaccine Live Merck & Co, Inc (ProQuad)
Meningococcal (Groups A, C, Y, and W-135) Oligosaccharide Diphtheria CRM197 Conjugate Vaccine Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics, Inc. (Menveo)
Meningococcal Group B Vaccine Wyeth Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (TRUMENBA); Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics, Inc.(BEXSERO)
Meningococcal Groups C and Y and Haemophilus b Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate Vaccine GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals (MenHibrix)
Meningococcal (Groups A, C, Y and W-135) Polysaccharide Diphtheria Toxoid Conjugate Vaccine Sanofi Pasteur, Inc (Menactra)
Meningococcal Polysaccharide Vaccine, Groups A, C, Y and W-135 Combined Sanofi Pasteur, Inc (Menomune-A/C/Y/W-135)
Pneumococcal Vaccine, Polyvalent Merck & Co, Inc (Pneumovax 23)
Pneumococcal 7-valent Conjugate Vaccine (Diphtheria CRM197 Protein) Wyeth Pharmaceuticals, Inc (Prevnar)
Pneumococcal 13-valent Conjugate Vaccine (Diphtheria CRM197 Protein) Wyeth Pharmaceuticals, Inc (Prevnar 13)
Poliovirus Vaccine Inactivated (Monkey Kidney Cell) Sanofi Pasteur, SA (IPOL)
Rabies Vaccine Sanofi Pasteur, SA (Imovax); Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics, Ltd (RabAvert)
Rotavirus Vaccine, Live, Oral GlaxoSmithKline Pharmaceuticals (Rotarix)
Rotavirus Vaccine, Live, Oral, Pentavalent Merck & Co, Inc (RotaTeq)
Smallpox (Vaccinia) Vaccine, Live Sanofi Pasteur Biologics Co (ACAM2000)
Tetanus & Diphtheria Toxoids, Adsorbed Massachusetts Public Health Biologic Lab (No Trade Name)
Tetanus & Diphtheria Toxoids Adsorbed for Adult Use Sanofi Pasteur, Inc. (Decavac); Sanofi Pasteur, Ltd. (Tenivac)
Tetanus Toxoid Sanofi Pasteur, Inc
Diphtheria and Tetanus Toxoids Adsorbed, STN 103944 Sanofi Pasteur, Inc
Tetanus Toxoid, Reduced Diphtheria Toxoid and Acellular Pertussis Vaccine, Adsorbed Sanofi Pasteur, Ltd (Adacel); GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals (Boostrix)
Typhoid Vaccine Live Oral Ty21a Berna Biotech, Ltd (Vivotif)
Typhoid Vi Polysaccharide Vaccine Sanofi Pasteur SA (Typhim Vi)
Varicella Virus Vaccine, Live Merck & Co, Inc (Varivax)
Yellow Fever Vaccine Sanofi Pasteur, Inc (YF-Vax)
Zoster Vaccine, Live Merck & Co, Inc (Zostavax)

http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm093830.htm

Please point out the ones made in China on the list.

[Ramses]

27. see post #7

The FDA has come under scrutiny for lax regulations and paid industry insiders tainting their regulatory authority. Im not going to do your homework for you. There are dozens of articles about FDA corruption in particular. Yet you post a list from their website that DOES NOT include Chinese manufacturers that are sold worldwide, including here in the US. Many of those vaccines on the FDA list ARE manufactured in China and sold here under other companies names.

[herding cats]

28. You have to prove your theory.

Sorry, you can't just say something is so, and thus it is. Prove your theory that the US has approved vaccines from China, please.

And list the specific vaccines from China being used here in the US approved by the FDA.

[Ramses]

29. Its not a theory, its a fact

The US doesnt approve vaccines from China. The vaccines are manufactured in China, and India, and other countries with little to no oversight and sold under Glaxo Kline, etc etc. Its called reality. Just like toxic jerky treats for pets are made in China and sold under different brand names here. Just like Clothing, and auto parts, and and shit fed tilapia fish are all sourced from unregulated Chinese entities and sold here as wholesome and good for everyone.

Ive repeated and Im not going to again about reading comprehension regarding FDA corruption.

[herding cats]

31. Saying something doesn't make it a fact. You need something to substantiate your claim.

It's like me saying the moon is made of green cheese and expecting everyone to believe me because I said it was a fact.

Get some information, of which you have provided none so far. Do some actual research, again not seeing any evidence of any having taken place up to this point, and make this your doctoral thesis if you actually believe what you're saying. But, just saying it over and over again and posting links which have nothing to do with what you're claiming does your claim zero good.

There are reams of evidence to discredit your claims, so you have to have at least something viable to base your claims on. Not 'go google it' because that's the weakest of presentations I've ever seen.

[Avalux]

55. Please provide PROOF of your accusation. Seriously dude.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[Ramses]

30. for starters

http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/92/9/14-020914/en/
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.4161/hv.6.7.11933#.VNHGkGjF-nY
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/07/infant-hepatitis-b-vaccine.a

[herding cats]

33. Still waiting for which ones have been approved for use here by the FDA.

Which is your claim. Get back to me on that.

[Ramses]

34. here

The US doesnt approve vaccines from China. The vaccines are manufactured in China, and India, and other countries with little to no oversight and sold under Glaxo Kline, etc etc. Its called reality. Just like toxic jerky treats for pets are made in China and sold under different brand names here. Just like Clothing, and auto parts, and and shit fed tilapia fish are all sourced from unregulated Chinese entities and sold here as wholesome and good for everyone.

Ive repeated and Im not going to again about reading comprehension regarding FDA corruption.


The US doesnt approve vaccines from China. The vaccines are manufactured in China, and India, and other countries with little to no oversight and sold under Glaxo Kline, etc etc. Its called reality. Just like toxic jerky treats for pets are made in China and sold under different brand names here. Just like Clothing, and auto parts, and and shit fed tilapia fish are all sourced from unregulated Chinese entities and sold here as wholesome and good for everyone.

Ive repeated and Im not going to again about reading comprehension regarding FDA corruption.


The US doesnt approve vaccines from China. The vaccines are manufactured in China, and India, and other countries with little to no oversight and sold under Glaxo Kline, etc etc. Its called reality. Just like toxic jerky treats for pets are made in China and sold under different brand names here. Just like Clothing, and auto parts, and and shit fed tilapia fish are all sourced from unregulated Chinese entities and sold here as wholesome and good for everyone.

Ive repeated and Im not going to again about reading comprehension regarding FDA corruption.



I repeated in for you again since reading comprehension seems to be a difficulty .

[herding cats]

36. My reading comprehension? Of what?

I'm sorry you're upset. Really. Where are your facts that the FDA has approved vaccines from China. You keep saying that same thing over and over again and provide nothing in way of evidence except your personal words and links which have nothing to do with what you're claiming. One would think you're not even reading the links you're posting here. Which would explain the dead one.

Have a great night.

[Liberal Veteran]

73. Apparently OP doesn't get that burden of proof lies with person making the claim.

He keeps posting articles that China and India manufacture vaccines as though that is proof they are approved for use in the US by the FDA.

Yet, when asked to simply show us the proof that these vaccines from China are approved for used in the US, we get another link to an article about China wanting to enter the global vaccine market.

Apparently, obfuscation is easier than just providing the proof.

[Ramses]

35. I dont debate with people who

argue dishonestly. You are quite capable of reading exactly what I wrote many times. I dont mind debate and different points of view, but not people who argue dishonestly

[herding cats]

37. This wasn't a debate.

I have no idea what you consider to be a debate, but this was not one. I asked for proof, politely, you appear to have gotten upset.

I'm sorry you're upset, that wasn't my intention.

[dionysus]

45. you have no proof of your assertions... there is no debate going on. you are

just repeating your unproven claim over and over. it is making you look silly.

[Igel]

47. Here's the problem.

1. China and India produce a lot of vaccines.

They also sell them domestically (which means "in China" and "in India&quot . They export them to a number of countries.

GKS and others use production facilities there, to be sure. But they're not just in the US market, so they have a market for the drugs/etc. they produce in China and India.

That part's not controverted.



2. The FDA doesn't approve vaccines they can't regulate or investigate. There have been cases where we've imported drugs or vaccines from India and there's been a bit of a media spectacle around them because the US insists on inspecting. Some pass, some don't. Typically if the drugs were imported and didn't pass inspection, they couldn't be sold. If they had been for sale, they're off the market. This has even been true for vaccines produced in Britain and France: I think the bird flu scare a few years ago made people rummage for producers of vaccines and there were problems with regulatory approval.


It's getting from (1) to (2) that requires documentation, some evidence other than hand-waving accompanied by the incantation "corruption." Listing the drugs for sale in the US that aren't imported from there shows that the list of possible imports is smaller than "all drugs." It's an attempt at negative evidence, in the absence of any positive evidence being brought forward.

Notice that I made this a bit harder: Because there have been instances of drugs brought in without the required paperwork and later stopped when discovered it's possible to even find the occasional article showing it happened but is still not relevant. It shows possibility, not actual on-going practice.

That's where the argument is. That's what you need to substantiate. And it's the latter that's really the crux of your claim.

[hobbit709]

50. MERCOLA?!?!?!?!

If that is your source you are an idiot. He's been discredited more often than a Republican politician lies.

[SidDithers]

64. +1...nt

Sid

[NuclearDem]

56. I sure hope you snuck that last link in there as a joke.

[SidDithers]

63. mercola!!...

Not that you had much credibility to begin with, but using mercola as a source for anything to do with medicine, has blown whatever shred you had left.



Sid

[Eko]

32. maybe its time to look where the vaccines that we give our children every day are made

Yes, please show us. Shouldn't be too hard, so show some kind of evidence of this.

[progressoid]

40. ...

[Ramses]

41. read here

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikakelton/2013/07/29/is-big-pharma-addicted-to-fraud/ get back to me when you read it..

[Eko]

46. Read the entire link.

Nowhere did it say china was producing vaccines for US consumption. Is it possible? sure. But you asserted it was a fact and need to show evidence of this.

[ReRe]

42. If you think this is bad....

.... just wait till the TPP goes through. We'll have no idea where anything comes from, how it was made or who made it or what is in it, as knowing the truth would be "bad for business."

[Godhumor]

48. Vaccines for the US are not currently manufactured in China

FDA policy is to only allow imports on vaccines from countries that allow the FDA to monitor their manufacture and test to US standards. China is not on that list.

Thanks for the outrage though. The fact that you linked to insane shitmonger Mercola in one of your follow-up posts was a nice touch.

[trumad]

49. Throughout this thread you have had your ass handed to you repeatedly....

That's why I love this place---some random guy comes in and tries to spout fact free shit and is immediately handed his ass for doing so.

We're a fact based community here at DU and if you can't provide legitimate facts then you are in the wrong place.

Lobbing links at us that contain no facts backing up your assertions makes you look pretty ignorant in mho---and an obvious Anti-Vaxxer.

[randr]

51. Pseudo-skepticism

Check out this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026178519

[jeff47]

53. Yay! More lying! That definitely proves anti-vaxxers have a point!!

List all the vaccines imported from China. You know, what you keep failing to do over and over again. Because there aren't any.

But great job standing up a new boogeyman!

[Act_of_Reparation]

54. Science is hard.

You think the "chemicals" in these imaginary vaccines manufactured in China aren't safe?

THEN FUCKING PROVE IT.

[TheNutcracker]

60. But the media will slam anyone, even members of government for speaking about any of this!

[rgbecker]

72. Are we to assume from this that the Chinese have autistic rates higher than US?

Or do the Chinese only fuck up the vaccines going to the US and keep all the good ones for all the commies in China? Is that your point?