General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums
Your Feelings About Vaccines Don't Trump Another Child's Medical Reality
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/28400-your-feelings-about-vaccines-dont-trump-another-childs-medical-realityWe are experts in what our children like to wear to bed, and what toy they’re favoring. We know their smiles, their sleep sounds and the way they mess up putting on their sneakers. But despite the platitudes thrown at mothers – that we’re doing the hardest job in the world and that motherhood is also being a chef, chauffeur and doctor – the truth is that we do not know everything about our children and what is best for them. That’s why we have real doctors. And no matter how condescended one feels by the medical establishment – and I’ve had that feeling myself – it does not excuse putting other children’s lives at risk.
Risking other children’s lives, and other parents’ pain, is exactly what you’re doing when you don’t vaccinate your child: you’re not just making decisions about your children’s health, but the health and safety of the children around them. Children like mine.
Layla was born extremely premature, and because of her low birth weight and underdeveloped lungs, her immune system was not up to par for years. She got sick more easily and more drastically than other children. The first two years of her life were filled with too many emergency room visits, doctors, shots, antibiotics and other medical interventions.
She was at such risk, in fact, that our pediatrician recommend that we keep her out of daycare and away from groups of children for as long as possible, so we cared for her at home for two years – a luxury we could afford but many other families cannot. But every time she played with a child at the park or a doctor’s waiting room, I was terrified.
So when I read quotes from parents denying any social responsibility to vaccinate saying things like, “My child is pure ... It’s not my responsibility to be protecting their child,” it makes me livid. Where once we said “it takes a village”, these days some people don’t care if the village burns to the ground so long as their precious snowflake is left standing.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Just because they have kids and can use google.
It's really blowing my mind.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)My mother-in-law was a double transplant recipient (liver and kidney) last summer.
A cold can be dangerous for her. The measles would kill her. And because of the anti-rejection drugs, she has lost all immunities she gained throughout life.
And because some stupid ignorant asshats of anti-vaxxesr are too moronic to understand science, measles went from being eliminated in this country to making a comeback.
And the red flag of the latest outbreak is that with all the pockets of compromised herd immunity throughout this country, measles could once again become endemic in this country.
Fuck the bastards. Anti-vaxxers embody nothing more than EVIL.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Will you achieve Herd Immunity if you take away the children and vaccinate 100% of them? No, because children are not 100% of the population.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/02/student-with-measles-traveled-through-new-york.html
Presumably an adult college student, not an little child. Does not say whether he was vaccinated or not. If he wasn't 18+ years ago by his parents, as an adult would not need their permission to vaccinate himself. Certainly could not take an adult child away from his parents. Article said he caught the measles while he was in Germany. Is Germany some Third World country? Other than his Passport, did he have to give US Customs his vaccination records?????? Nope.
Many years ago when you went overseas your Passport was stamped that you had a small pox vax. They would need an entire other book today. Customs would have to check down the entire list of recommended vaccinations for US citizens entry? When we went on a cruise a few years ago to the Caribbean, customs asked all US citizens to form a single line and HOLD UP their passports. They did not even look at the pictures. How many passengers are on a ship???? Stop all passengers and check ALL vaccination records? Hey, Grandpa, where are your vaccination records from 60+ years ago?
Impossible situation with adults whether vaccinated, under-vaccinated, or un-vaccinated. You would need to declare martial law to enforce this with adults. Do you really think this is ever going to happen????? The majority of Americans are probably not even paying any attention to any of this and just going about their daily lives. Same as Security was joking at airports during Ebola last October. Quote I overhead to little old man in a wheelchair. "Hey, Gramps, have you been to Africa on a Safari recently?" Gramps laughed and so did everyone in the Security line. I would imagine the measles outbreak would probably get the same reaction.
barbaraj
(80 posts)I've heard of one Disney victim involved who was 57.. six were adult employees..and heard the average age is 20..factoring in one who was seven months old..is this really an outbreak among adults and we're arguing over vaccinating children? You are right , Hockey Mom, it's the adults who need to vaccinate, immunity wanes with natural disease, and does the same with vaccine derived disease. Time we all line up, those who physically can, and get our vaccines, this isn't about a childhood epidemic, it's about a childhood disease that has shifted to adults who have lost their immunity. We are thinking it's a childhood disease , it seems it isn't at all. wow..
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Idiot fucking crap!
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)This is not an outbreak among little unvaccinated children. Adults, including adults previously vaccinated. All the articles on this state ADULTS are something like 60% of those people coming down with measles.
So everyone here screaming about little kids, maybe YOU meed to go out and get more boosters.
Response to eridani (Original post)
Post removed
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Anti-vaxxers are child abusers.
Lock them up for child abuse and vaccinate the children.
Problem solved.
Lucky Luciano
(11,857 posts)Idiot.
Response to Lucky Luciano (Reply #8)
Name removed Message auto-removed
weissmam
(910 posts)vaccinated because of a health issue that caugth the measles from some kid that didn't get the vaccine bacuse they eat organic weat ? Or someone dies that was on chemo that had a compromised issmune system etc etc .
Tough question
weissmam
(910 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)
Lucky Luciano
(11,857 posts)I searched for the claims and it only lead me to anti-vaxxer websites (you know sites with names like somethingsomethingtruth.com - Orwell speak).
A nice article from the WHO or Something would be nice - if it exists, I am sure the fine print will eliminate this troll's concerns.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)
Pretty odd to call over 500 deaths/year "almost zero."
Blecht
(3,806 posts)It just makes the stupid stronger.
Lucky Luciano
(11,857 posts)Not to mention those with severe and permanent adverse affects who did not die.
As for the Chinese claims - can't find any source that us reputable.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Large epidemics of measles occurring in those years. So many people catching measles, becoming immune by that, and could not spread it. Plus, the increased use of antibiotics during those years.
Yes, the people who were vaccinated in the early years had a vax with "killed" virus, which lead to that "wild" measles strain. Basically, the idea of shedding is that newly vaccinated have a very, very mild case of measles until their antibodies kick in? There are some calling for the quarantine of people after getting the vax because they can give measles to others with immune compromised systems.
Don't know if I got this all right.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)selfishness that angers me the most. There are cancer patients of all ages, and all kinds of people that their wonder children can infect. Gee, I wonder what their response would be if the wonder kid is allergic to peanuts and other parents decided that it's not their responsibilty to protect the wonder kid.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)We haven't been an "it takes a village society" for a long time. There was a time when kids could play for hours in their own neighborhoods until long after dark. Everybody watched out for everybody else's kids. If your kid fell off of his bike and got a sidewalk burn, he could just go to the nearest mom for a hug and a bandaid. Those days are long gone and have been since the mid to late 60's. Now, parents believe that their child is the only important one. It's a sad thing but it is what it is. The question is, how do we change it?
jwirr
(39,215 posts)the vaccines to third world nations they did not trust us - we had to use education there and it seems now our own country needs it.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Roll out the same 3rd world education program for those right here in the US.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)
ALBliberal
(3,319 posts)We have found a village right here in Albuquerque. We all look out for each other's kids. Through over 20 years of public schools and organized sports we rely on other parents teachers and friends to help us through. I do believe the anti vaccination crowd does not value the "village" philosophy. They may yet be surprised to really feel the consequences of their selfish and I believe irrational choices.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)trashing thread.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)
Adding to my ignore list.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)ALBliberal
(3,319 posts)A guest on Stephanie Miller yesterday (Carol Burnett's daughter didn't catch her name) noted that the private "grammar school" she attended in California currently has a vaccination rate of only 87%. Wouldn't such schools be more likely to have an outbreak of measles? And what about the parents that have vaccinated? Wouldn't these parents be putting pressure on the parents not vaccinating? Maybe this national debate we are having will have unexpected push back on those not vaccinating. Money talks and if some of these private school parents start pulling kids.... or if some of the public school parents raise cain about the non vaccinated things will get interesting.
My youngest is about to graduate from high school. After sending three kids through public school I can say that the parents I know would never have let this situation of parents choosing to not vaccinate be tolerated. Our PTAs would be all over this from the school to the district all the way up the line to state authorities.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)When I went to private school, we had the polio sugar cube and other immunizations available in school - all free. My public school friends had the same thing available to them. I don't know if this has changed, it would be a damn shame if it did.
ALBliberal
(3,319 posts)The pro vaxx love their kids just as much as the anti vaxx parents. I think there will be push back that the anti vaxx crowd won't be able to answer to. Emotions are flying high from both camps. It's hard to believe we are having this debate in 2015.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)knowingly want to bring back illnesses that were gone.
There is already a lot of push back with much more to come. Deservedly so. The same educational materials that we provided to 3rd world countries for vaccines will have to be distributed to them.
we know our children. In my family where autoimmune disease is something we deal with every day, lupus, juvenile arthritis, autism, multiple sclerosis, and many sick with as yet un- diagnosed mixtures of autoimmune symptoms...WE KNOW our children reacted poorly, we know our doctors ignored our pleas and bullied us into vaccines with life long disabilities as the result. When you suggest 'educate", I agree, no one should risk the lives of their children because a program is more important than the individual. You all need to be educated, as do the people at the CDC who have known and deliberately hidden this information for fear of "fear". When ever have whistleblowers, scientists, from Bernadette Healy (past head of the NIH), to scientists from Merck, the CDC , the FDA and more ever been ignored concerning any subject other than vaccines. Get educated, most will be fine, but those of us who have kids that won't be fine from measles vaccine exposure, who won't be fine from wild measles, shouldn't have to play the odds to not offend you, because you don't know, you aren't educated, you are blindly using "faith based" information to enjoy group thinking.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)I imagine how people on the autism spectrum must feel when parents say that we would rather have a dead child than a child on the autism spectrum. They would rather have their children in iron lungs, blind children, deaf children, children whose mental stage is frozen as toddlers than to have autistic children. Talk about rejection!
These parents don't care about other children. They don't mind seeing your child dead, if it means they can do whatever they want to their own child. How is that for self-absorbed?
They see their own children as property - the special snowflake mom quoted in one of the articles posted here who didn't think "it felt right" to vaccinate her children, refused when her child asked to have the vaccination instead of missing classes. Her right to choose not to vaccinate was of utmost importance, but she would refuse her child the choice!
We may not force these parents to vaccinate their children, but we can choose to protect those vulnerable by not letting children with anything other than medically documented exemptions from vaccines attend public schools. We can also ostracize parents we know refuse to vaccinate their children - how can we let them help with after-school activities, be little league coaches, scout troop leaders etc, if they do not care about the safety of their own children? It is time to take a stand to protect those weakest among us, those with weakened health, those who live in poverty. Work towards free vaccines for all, and closing of religious exemption loopholes.
barbaraj
(80 posts)The job of science "should have been", over the last twenty years, to IDENTIFY the subgroup of children who are likely to be harmed by the mmr and allow the masses to be safely vaccinated. Each step to this end has been "covered up" . Clearly the information has leaked and has been retracted time after time with the latest whistleblower identifying African American children as 350% more at risk of autism if they'd receive their vaccine before 36 months Because we aren't to be trusted with this information, it will cause too many to reject the "program", we are instead blasted by media pitchmen for the pharmaceuticals with their massive pr presentations using our fears as parents to accept any garbage they're selling, while sending tenured scientists to some imaginary quack pile (while allowing pharm dollars to trump science). I don't think any number of children should be acceptable as collateral damage, and we have millions. They want to use jenny something, and wakefield as the scapegoats, when in the real world Japan noted an issue and removed the mmr in 1993, and offered the first real and observed science to sound the alarm bell...to which we didn't listen because we are nothing more than consumers subject to advertising.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)KitSileya
(4,035 posts)and shunt those who push it into the CT group or else be banned. This idiotic nonsense is going to end up killing many innocent children, elderly and immuno-compromised people over the next years. They don't deserve more respect than those who claim that chemtrails are deadly.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)It's super wacky and can hurt or kill people.
Having had chemo myself, I find it frightening. I'm sure these auto-immune sufferers do too-
http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/autoimmune-diseases
How the hell can people not give a crap about others with grave illnesses?
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)You're opening your mouth and removing all doubt, as President Lincoln would have said.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)First of all, how the hell does an autism/vaccine correlation affect members of one race that much more drastically than another?
Here, let me answer that for you: the data that showed vaccinated AA kids with autism was taken from an early intervention special ed class in Atlanta that required vaccination for acceptance. That is why the CDC saw it as irrelevant to their findings.
Second, a 3.36 fold increase (which the CDC data showed) is a 236% increase, not 336%. A twofold increase is an increase of 100%--doubling--threefold being 200%--tripling. This might seem petty, but it's symptomatic of the poor science education in this country that makes crap like that believable.
Third, the journal Hooker published his recalculation of the CDC numbers in eventually retracted it over concerns of its validity and integrity. The idiot used an entirely different method of study to reanalyze the numbers, and deliberately kept twisting the numbers to get them to say what he wanted to see.
Fourth, Andrew Wakefield. Seriously, that asshole's prints all over that story. If anything should throw up red flags immediately, it should be Andrew Wakefield's endorsement.
Progressive dog
(7,598 posts)rise after discontinuance of MMR. Fortunately,no other developed nation has copied Japan's rejection of science.
ALBliberal
(3,319 posts)Be kept apart from those that choose to not be not vaccinated. The non vaccinated should not in any way mix with the vaccinated and the children too sick in some way to get vaccinated. The consequences could be deadly.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Are they publishing the NAMES of the un vaccinated people? HIPPA. Do you know the NAMES of the kids in the schools who are un vaccinated? Do you know what child in the park is not vaccinated? Do you know who has been vaccinated for the flu in your office unless they themselves tell you? No, you don't. Do they have to tell you WHY they were in the hospital? No.
HIPPA. That old doctor/patient privilege. The general public does not have the right to know anyone else's medical history, which includes their vaccination status, be they the parent of a child, or an adult.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I'm sorry, but if I am receiving treatment for leukemia I have every right to know if my kid's friend that may come over to play has been vaccinated.
Your rights DO NOT extend to ruining MY health.
ALBliberal
(3,319 posts)My best friend has Lupus. She cannot have the vaccination. She has the right to know who puts her health at risk. She has the right to protect herself.
Anti vaxxers seem loud and proud of their choices they shouldn't have any problem alerting us to thier decisions.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)with knowing who the unvaccinated people are. In the case of your friend and many others it could be a life saving thing. Of course, they don't give a crap about that either.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Are your coworkers all vaccinated? Only CHILDREN can spread disease to you? Demand you fellow employees, or neighbors down the street, to tell you their vaccination status.
Bully. CHILDREN are easy targets. Try taking on adults you know and demand THEIR cooperation.
ALBliberal
(3,319 posts)at a minimum there will be more caution as playgroups are put together and people congregate. There will be questions asked and information shared. With the increased visibility of this problem word will get around about who isnt vaccinated.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Technically, revealing the names of people who haven't been vaccinated isn't revealing medical information, it's revealing the lack of medical information.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Privacy issue. Can you demand the vaccination status of the couple living next door to you? Hell, no.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)pretty fucking quick.
Like it or not, this is now an issue.
Squeal and howl all you want, THIS is an issue.
Dumb asses that refuse science made it so...piss on them.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Personally I would prefer to keep my medical records private. I am too old to have been vaccinated. Had all the childhood diseases. Did not have the polio sugar cube until 1958. My children are vaccinated as are my grandchildren. I would prefer they be allowed their privacy as well.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Go against public health policy -- too fucking bad.
Scream all you want - you people are a menace.
ALBliberal
(3,319 posts)The way these threads go they have nothing to hide they are RIGHT by God and they have the RIGHT to endanger anyone they please they are blame free. I don't see them hiding .... in their minds there is no shame in this decision to risk public health.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)I'm talking about NOT being vaccinated. Is the lack of something that is covered under privacy laws? I know that, for instance, FERPA won't allow a school to confirm if a student attends a school. They are, however, free to say that a student does NOT attend a school.
Demanding the vaccination status of the couple living next door is obviously extreme, but I wonder if a school, for instance, could give the number of students in a school who are unvaccinated and/or the reason they are unvaccinated, in order for parents with sick (or potentially sick) kids to make an educated decision. Would HIPAA prevent, say, the county health department that collects and collates vaccination information revealing the names of those who refused vaccination?
So now we have more people insured. Do all these newly insured people now have their own personal doctors? Reports say that people, now with insurance, are still using ER's when they get sick. Sick. So are they now going to doctors when they AREN'T sick for covered preventative care, which would include vaccinations. How often do young adults get sick? Think these young adults are the people running to an ER with the flu? Probably they are just staying home.
NONE of these preventative care procedures under ACA are mandatory. Health insurance may now be mandatory, but having a doctor, or seeing one, is not mandatory. No doctor. No refusal of vaccination.
So what records are you going to get of unvaccinated people if they are no records?
ALBliberal
(3,319 posts)These people that got sick at Disney. I did hear one is only 7 months old. I fear that if any of the illnesses result in death we would find out their names at that time.
BootinUp
(51,238 posts)Lets not use anecdotal evidence to determine our health policy. PLEASE.