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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPope says chosing childlessness is "selfish."
VATICAN CITY (RNS) Less than a month after saying Catholics dont have to multiply like rabbits, Pope Francis on Wednesday (Feb. 11) once again praised big families, telling a gathering in St. Peters Square that having more children is not an irresponsible choice.
He also said that opting not to have children at all is a selfish choice.
A society that views children above all as a worry, a burden, a risk, is a depressed society, Francis said.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6671464
Says the Pope, who chose not to have any kids...
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)is the worst kind of selfishness.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)RKP5637
(67,086 posts)problems, so, they went to the minister ... he said have a kid, that will solve everything. So they did, now the kid was involved in a bad relationship which eventually lead to divorce and very unhappy times for their child. So, when I hear these damn fools make proclamations like this, IMO they should butt out! And in this case especially on a planet with limited resources.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)And, in all seriousness, it's not like the world is running short on humans.
I'd wanted to like this pope. He is making it exceedingly difficult the last few weeks after such a good start.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)JI7
(89,240 posts)Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)already "unselfishly" brought into the world?
As long as there is one kid or disabled person, or elderly person - going hungry or without shelter or health care, that's the only issue that needs to be addressed.
"Oh, yeah. I'm the POpey POpe. I wear this Kewl Hat. I belong to a church that owns bejillions in priceless artifacts, but personally, I will do not a holy thing to help feed you or your seven kids.
But have another. Because if you don't, you're selfish."
Why does anyone listen to this crazy-making shite?
cer7711
(502 posts)"Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate."
--Monty Python (film: Life of Brian)
BubbaFett
(361 posts)for people who CAN'T have kids.
fbc
(1,668 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)And don't want to make the state pay to support them.
So they go childless, and there's certainly 'choice' involved there, but it's one proscribed by economic burden.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)creates social shame for the childless. No one should have to justify WHY they don't have children to anyone.
LittleGirl
(8,279 posts)throwing all of us (childless people/couples) under the bus is getting really tiring with these religious bastards. Fuck the pope.
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)sideways!
He can kiss my childless ass. I think its SELFISH for the Catholic Church to KEEP all the treasure it stole from indigenous peoples .......and to continue to live lavishly in the Vatican with all their "Holy Booty".
Give it BACK you greedy assholes!
Lets not even consider all the children they have damaged hiding the pedophiles in their ranks...
He has one helluva nerve!
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)I think that mote in the pope's eye may be a big one.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
loudsue
(14,087 posts)The pope needs to get a clue.
Duppers
(28,117 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Seriously. There is nothing more selfish than bringing children into the world if you know that you are not able to care for them properly. There are too many people who breed without giving a thought to whether or not they are capable of giving a loving, stable home to a child.
romanic
(2,841 posts)I think the choice NOT to have kids is anything but selfish.
fbc
(1,668 posts)I don't have kids and do not want them for purely selfish reasons. I love that my time belongs to me.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)I agree with him, but the hypocrisy, El Papa!
The hypocrisy!
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)For a person to recognize that they have a tendency to want their time and their space for themselves and that they aren't inclined to give any of it up for a child is recognizing limits that would interfere with being a good parent.
hatrack
(59,578 posts)Sorry Francis, but YOU DON'T FUCKING KNOW people's circumstances, characters or worth by the number of kids they have or don't have. Unbelievable.
madokie
(51,076 posts)I chose to not father children even though I've tried my best to be a good dad to two boys/men now. Had nothing to do with religion I might add.
Anyways the pot calling the kettle black there isn't it 'father'
So many of your kind have been found to be and many more accused of, pedophilia, with young boys cause they can't give birth. Clean house then I might listen to you on this.
Javaman
(62,503 posts)go scratch.
wheniwasincongress
(1,307 posts)He's done a great job of making people think he's years ahead of former popes.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)So he drops some off the cuff remark, and then is probably surrounded by cardinals badgering him passive-aggressively until he walks back whatever he said to stay more 'doctrine'. So I'm guessing it's more of an unwillingness to break through the accumulated deadwood with an iron fist, and an attempt to 'massage' the Church into a new path. And frankly, I don't think that will work. Too much accumulated 'tradition' that will need to either simply be overturned at once, or it simply won't dislodge, and the next Pope along will simply undo whatever minor bits of change he might create.
Triana
(22,666 posts). . .
Despite this statement being a bitter, vitriolic insult, for some reason people feel comfortable saying it to my face when in the kid context. The thing is, no one would call me selfish if I had said, No, Id rather not lend you $241,080 youll never pay back, thanks. ($241,080 is the average cost to raise a child in 2013 according to CNN Money, by the way - and thats not including college tuition.)
So while refusing to lend your friends money or let a stranger borrow your car is just common sense, politely declining to live with and care for an expensive, time-consuming human being that you actually kinda-sorta-no-wait-really dont want? Thats just selfish! (Riiiight.)
If you think critically about it, not having kids - and all the vigilance that entails for many people - is actually a pretty unselfish choice. If you dont want to be a parent, you may not make a very good one in fact, you may wind up resentful and bitter, or even abusive (emotionally or physically).
The mythology surrounding parenthood - self-sacrifice, unpaid and often unappreciated hard labor - goes a long way to support the idea that childfree people are just selfish. But at its core, choosing to have children (and dedicate your life or large part of it to them) is a self-motivated - and therefore selfish - act.
THE REST:
http://www.xojane.com/family/how-not-to-be-a-dick-to-your-childfree-friends
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
TIME: Childfree Adults Are Not "Selfish"
. . .
Just as significant is the issue of lifestyle. I am a writer. My husband is an artist. We live paycheck to paycheck and go long spells without health insurance and dental cleanings. Our schedules are beyond erratic. I often write on weekends. My husband has had jobs that require regular night shifts. And theres the issue of travel. Last year, we trotted off to Peru for several weeks when my husband was asked to do a series of installations at an old Inca sun temple. The year before that, I spent five weeks in Costa Rica on assignment for a guidebook company. For me, there is no greater joy than slipping on a pair of rubber boots and going to meet an encampment of gold miners in the middle of a rainforest. For my husband, bliss is sitting at a drafting table, surrounded by paint, razor blades and paint sticks. These are the things we love to do. And while we could have found some way to squeeze children into this complicated equation, neither of us was very interested in doing so just like neither of us is very interested in watching major league baseball or the Lifetime network.
(MORE: Life Without Kids)
Yet, over the course of our marriage, weve been peppered with the kid question from distant uncles, hair dressers, bartenders, bosses, the postman and even the neighbor lady: Dont you have kids? When are you going to have kids? Early on, I learned that the worst thing I could do was to give an honest answer. Saying I dont want kids simply set me up as a challenge to be surmounted. Ive spent BBQs and cocktail parties fending off some inquisitor who made it their mission to convince me to reproduce. In my twenties, I got around this by telling people that I simply wasnt ready to have a baby. But now that Im in my 40s, I cant use that excuse and so the entreaties cascade in. Its now or never. Youre not getting any younger. Arent you afraid youll regret the decision? Thats kind of selfish, dont you think? Needless to say, the questions are generally directed at me not at my husband.
In so much of what is reported, childless adults are often depicted as slavishly self-involved: people who sacrifice communal bonds in order to hole up with box wine and re-runs of the Walking Dead. In our case, it couldnt be farther from the reality. In choosing not to have children, we have not abdicated obligations to friends and family. When my father developed brain cancer, I took him to treatment almost every day for eight weeks. When my mother-in-law had an aneurysm, my husband took off to help care her for her. In the coming years, I will watch nieces grow up and keep a close eye on friends who might feel depressed. I will spend a great deal of time with people I care for deeply.
My decision not to have children was never made out of some desire to keep my life out of the hands of others. If anything, I have simply chosen to share my life in a different way. Sure, I may one day regret this decision. I may also regret a heap of other things. Not spending more time with my father. Being a jerk to a good friend. Eating too much pizza. But perhaps a bigger regret would consist of being strong-armed into having a baby I simply never wanted.
THE REST:
http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/01/no-regrets-why-i-dont-have-children/
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
23 Responses to 23 Awful Statements Made to Childfree People
. . .
5. "You're being selfish."
Huh? For deciding what to do with my body parts and my life? For not caring about non-existent children? What?
(For women, I believe this about denying your partner, I think, the right to access your uterus whenever s/he wants. Or you are selfishly keeping a magical baby away from someone? I dont know. Its a popular but never explained response.)
THE REST:
http://bigthink.com/against-the-new-taboo/23-responses-to-23-awful-statements-made-to-childfree-people
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Plus, of course, with ever dwindling resources in the hands of the 99%, it's getting to the point where it simply takes more than two adults to raise a child. It really does 'take a village', and many of those 'selfish' childless adults are making large financial investments in nieces and nephews, or the children of friends.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Holly_Hobby
(3,033 posts)of alcoholism, mental illness and drug addiction in my family. I think passing on those genes on is selfish and irresponsible. Not that it's any of the Pope's damn business. Thou shall not judge? Hypocrite.
In addition to my family's genes, I was raised by a mentally ill mother who damaged me, I wouldn't be a good parent - you do what you know. I wouldn't want to put a child through what I went through.
My motherly instincts are put to good use with animals.
randome
(34,845 posts)Of course that was . Geeze, you'd think if the Pope is willing to recognize climate change, he'd also recognize that we have too damned many people on the planet causing climate change.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]
trotsky
(49,533 posts)It shows just how out-of-touch the pope and his church are with real life.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)y'know...
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)He's a friendly, personable individual.
That such a person could utter such rubbish shows how brain corrosive religion is.
Bettie
(16,073 posts)If you know yourself well enough to know that you honestly don't want children, that is a wonderful thing.
Too many people have kids because it is the expected thing.
I have three boys. DH and I thought long and hard before we made a decision to have kids. In the end, it was the right choice for us, though our plan was for only the first two, the third was a surprise (at age 42 for me, yikes!) and is a wonderful little guy.
But I digress...the point is, if you don't want to be a parent, you should be able to choose that without people constantly questioning you about it.
livetohike
(22,123 posts)and married for almost 40 years. So hearing the same from the Pope doesn't surprise me.
I didn't have children, because I didn't want children. What is so hard to understand about that? When I was younger and of child bearing age, I thought people asked that question expecting some sort of excuse. There is no excuse. Just my free will.
peace13
(11,076 posts)God and the Pope should probably stay out of the discussion of folks having babies. That is unless the Pope wants to come right out and lay it on the table....we need the babies to keep our numbers up which in turn keeps the money rolling in!
Rex
(65,616 posts)I guess the Pope is immune to irony.
rurallib
(62,382 posts)let us reproduce until we kill our little nest in space for the glory of the magic man in the sky. He will take care of us!
Or maybe we have intelligence to solve problems before they kill us and overpopulation is a huge problem.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)You remember...... the "new and improved" pontiff that the media ( and the church PR machine) was assuring us last year was... well... NEW AND IMPROVED ?
That was pretty quick. ( The transformation and the re-transformation, that is.)
What's going on up there, god?
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)And people worship this guy.
MineralMan
(146,255 posts)are required to be childless by decree. Height of hypocrisy.
panader0
(25,816 posts)MineralMan
(146,255 posts)Lots of that going around.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,596 posts)MineralMan
(146,255 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)An unwanted child lives this life knowing they are not welcome here. We have no sense of belonging in this world. We try to fit in but we never really feel welcome.
Most suffer physical and/or psychological abuse at the hand of their mothers. We live our lives with our most basic needs of acceptance and care never met. Our sense of security and comfort is not developed so we live our lives in a state of underlying fear and trauma.
We are born behind every wanted child; we have to play catch up just to be functional in society. We have a lifetime of low self esteem, self worth and confusion about who we are. We live in deep sadness all the time, but we learn how to mask this to get along.
The real selfishness, Mr Pope, is forcing mothers to carry and raise unwanted children so your church can have a bigger flock!!!!!!
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Well said.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)that you should make it your own OP.
I've seen too many children suffer undeserved pain and torture.
Better to not be born than suffer that hell. Fuck those that believe 'suffer the children' should be law.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Society needs more people to function. You can't just take from society. You also have to give back. Society needs more consumers, and it needs more taxpayers, to create jobs and maintain civil society. Aging populations like Japan, Europe, the US, we don't know how to make that work. That's we want/need people coming from what are essentially the baby factories in the developing world.
We don't have to worry about anything yet, since the global population of humans is still increasing. If that ever actually physically starts to decline, and if it keeps happening in the developed world, that should be an interesting time in the experiment.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... is selfish, as population growth will end someday, either by careful planning or by Malthusian catastrophe.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Probably the largest group of people sworn to childless lives on the planet are those who follow Francis. What a staggeringly hypocritical and self serving man he is.
displacedtexan
(15,696 posts)If people stop having children, who will support the pope's lifestyle?
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)but at least they actually supply their poorer families with food and diapers. They realize that having large families is impossible without making support available to families.
bobjacksonk2832
(50 posts)If his highness feels that not having children is a form of selfishness, why doesn't he bother having children as well? In the end, this is more of the two-faced nature of the RCC. And in any case, our planet is too overcrowded as it is. Does the pope have any plans to help foot the bill for the expenses needed to take care of these future children? Probably not.
Response to bobjacksonk2832 (Reply #49)
uppityperson This message was self-deleted by its author.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)like all the others have been.
Signed,
Childless (and selfish) bigwillq
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I can't believe religion has legitimacy in anyone's mind.
betsuni
(25,380 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)That is all.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)the Catholic Church depresses me.
Warpy
(111,152 posts)Oh, wait, it's only WOMEN who have to produce offspring they are unprepared to raise and too poor to feed. Males can become part of the church and rise above such concerns.
With 7 billion of us on the planet, humanity has gone from being part of the ecosystem to getting close to proving Malthus. Not having children or limiting one's family to one or two children are both sensible and compassionate.
Producing 10+ children who suffer from lack of resources including parental attention just because His Hatness doesn't like birth control is not sensible, nor is it compassionate to the children or an overburdened planet.
It's time for that church to grow the fuck up and realize women are first and foremost human beings and the equal of men, that we have the right to decide who comes to and from our bodies, not livestock or walking flowerpots into which men plant their seeds with absolutely no right to self determination.
This pope is just as bad as the rest of them when it comes to realizing these things about half the human race.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)excellent point!
Mike Nelson
(9,944 posts)...does the Pope have?
Marr
(20,317 posts)As far as I can tell, people tend to have children because they want them. Considering our population problems, that seems the only choice that could be considered selfish.
roamer65
(36,744 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
REP
(21,691 posts)so selfish to deny the church fresh prey.
yellowcanine
(35,693 posts)Skittles
(153,113 posts)bobclark86
(1,415 posts)Should I go buy a Russian bride or something?
phylny
(8,368 posts)This is not selfishness, this is good sense
yuiyoshida
(41,818 posts)My body, My choice.