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SunSeeker

(51,513 posts)
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 04:46 AM Feb 2015

Pope says chosing childlessness is "selfish."

Pope Francis: 'Not To Have Children Is A Selfish Choice'

VATICAN CITY (RNS) Less than a month after saying Catholics don’t have to multiply “like rabbits,” Pope Francis on Wednesday (Feb. 11) once again praised big families, telling a gathering in St. Peter’s Square that having more children is not “an irresponsible choice.”

He also said that opting not to have children at all is “a selfish choice.”

A society that “views children above all as a worry, a burden, a risk, is a depressed society,” Francis said.


http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6671464


Says the Pope, who chose not to have any kids...
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Pope says chosing childlessness is "selfish." (Original Post) SunSeeker Feb 2015 OP
Having children you don't want because society says you should hedgehog Feb 2015 #1
+++++1,000,000,000 Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #32
Exactly! I recall well my sister and her husband having serious marriage RKP5637 Feb 2015 #54
Game, set and match. hifiguy Feb 2015 #63
The Church needs more altar boys. Lots and lots more. blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #2
so he is selfish ? why doesn't he adopt all those poor kids without parents around the world ? JI7 Feb 2015 #3
How about the asshole starts talking about feeding the ones Tsiyu Feb 2015 #4
I think he's being a little hard on himself. cer7711 Feb 2015 #5
Shit like that hurts BubbaFett Feb 2015 #6
If people can't have kids then it's not a choice. fbc Feb 2015 #10
There are also the folks who want kids, but know they can't afford to care for them. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #27
Yet the culture it creates when the pope says something like that... trotsky Feb 2015 #41
I didn't get to choose and LittleGirl Feb 2015 #7
That was my first reaction......FUCK the Pope! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #38
Says the man in charge of a whole bunch off men and women who are themselves childless CBGLuthier Feb 2015 #8
Exactly! smirkymonkey Feb 2015 #67
This planet has got to stop breeding people so fast. It's dangerous on every single front. loudsue Feb 2015 #9
^^ This ^^ Duppers Feb 2015 #13
+1000 smirkymonkey Feb 2015 #16
Pretty much. romanic Feb 2015 #20
I sort of agree with this statement. fbc Feb 2015 #11
He acts as if that kind of selfish is a bad thing Android3.14 Feb 2015 #12
He's got it backwards loyalsister Feb 2015 #14
So the Duggars are less selfish than most? hatrack Feb 2015 #15
Due to my exposure to Agent Orange madokie Feb 2015 #17
hey frankie... Javaman Feb 2015 #18
A great thinker wheniwasincongress Feb 2015 #19
I dunno. I actually do think he is more progressive than the rest of the Church in a few ways. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #29
Dear Pope: How Not To Be A Dick To Your Childfree Friends Triana Feb 2015 #21
^------Comment really worth reading above. Triana put up a lot of good food for thought there. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2015 #31
+1000 smirkymonkey Feb 2015 #74
I chose not to have children because Holly_Hobby Feb 2015 #22
You selfish minx. randome Feb 2015 #25
Your decision was the complete opposite of selfish. trotsky Feb 2015 #42
Thank you for your choice. It was intelligent and reasonable. Shrike47 Feb 2015 #76
Those who live in glass palaces... Tom Ripley Feb 2015 #23
The Pope also said he understood the Charlie Hebdo killers. Yorktown Feb 2015 #24
It isn't a selfish choice Bettie Feb 2015 #26
I have been told that by quite a few people in my life, rude as they are. I am nearly 63 years old livetohike Feb 2015 #28
Please explain why god refuses to send children to millions of childless people who want them? peace13 Feb 2015 #30
So does this finally mean the Church is going to let priests get married? Rex Feb 2015 #33
And thus the Pope sheds his veneer of liberalism rurallib Feb 2015 #34
Huh. Whatever Happened to Pope Groovy? Smarmie Doofus Feb 2015 #35
Hahahahahahahaha RedCappedBandit Feb 2015 #36
Says a childless man who presides over a church where all of its leaders MineralMan Feb 2015 #37
My first thought was "How many kids does he have?" panader0 Feb 2015 #43
Well, it's the old "Do as I say, not as I do" thing. MineralMan Feb 2015 #44
If you're not playing the game you shouldn't be making the rules. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2015 #58
That seems fair to me. MineralMan Feb 2015 #60
The pope clearly does not understand what the life of an unwanted child IS! Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #39
I think you stated it best. malokvale77 Feb 2015 #61
Thank you... Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #69
I think you stated it so eloquently... malokvale77 Feb 2015 #70
It is The2ndWheel Feb 2015 #40
Having more than 2 kids.. sendero Feb 2015 #45
And yet he himself and the 1.2 million or so celibates he commands are all childless by choice... Bluenorthwest Feb 2015 #46
The church always needs new tithers. displacedtexan Feb 2015 #47
say what you will about the Mormons DonCoquixote Feb 2015 #48
Quite the hypocrite the Pope is bobjacksonk2832 Feb 2015 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author uppityperson Feb 2015 #71
This Pope is awful bigwillq Feb 2015 #50
The pope really needs to butt out of peoples lives. n/t RKP5637 Feb 2015 #51
What a nut Politicalboi Feb 2015 #52
I saw this as "Pope says childlessness is 'shellfish'" betsuni Feb 2015 #53
Fuck Frank EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2015 #55
Ya know what, Pope- LiberalElite Feb 2015 #56
You mean like HE DID? Warpy Feb 2015 #57
+1000 smirkymonkey Feb 2015 #77
So, how many children... Mike Nelson Feb 2015 #59
In what sense is it selfish? Marr Feb 2015 #62
Hypocrite. roamer65 Feb 2015 #64
... SidDithers Feb 2015 #65
Kiss the fattest part of my ass, Frankie. REP Feb 2015 #66
Wait - didn't HE choose to be childless????? yellowcanine Feb 2015 #68
STFU, asshole Skittles Feb 2015 #72
I don't like anyone enough to have kids with them. bobclark86 Feb 2015 #73
My daughter and son-in-law do not want children. phylny Feb 2015 #75
Love my selfish choice yuiyoshida Feb 2015 #78

RKP5637

(67,086 posts)
54. Exactly! I recall well my sister and her husband having serious marriage
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 08:20 PM
Feb 2015

problems, so, they went to the minister ... he said have a kid, that will solve everything. So they did, now the kid was involved in a bad relationship which eventually lead to divorce and very unhappy times for their child. So, when I hear these damn fools make proclamations like this, IMO they should butt out! And in this case especially on a planet with limited resources.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
63. Game, set and match.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:59 PM
Feb 2015

And, in all seriousness, it's not like the world is running short on humans.

I'd wanted to like this pope. He is making it exceedingly difficult the last few weeks after such a good start.

Tsiyu

(18,186 posts)
4. How about the asshole starts talking about feeding the ones
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:02 AM
Feb 2015

already "unselfishly" brought into the world?

As long as there is one kid or disabled person, or elderly person - going hungry or without shelter or health care, that's the only issue that needs to be addressed.

"Oh, yeah. I'm the POpey POpe. I wear this Kewl Hat. I belong to a church that owns bejillions in priceless artifacts, but personally, I will do not a holy thing to help feed you or your seven kids.

But have another. Because if you don't, you're selfish."



Why does anyone listen to this crazy-making shite?




cer7711

(502 posts)
5. I think he's being a little hard on himself.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:13 AM
Feb 2015

"Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate."

--Monty Python (film: Life of Brian)



Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
27. There are also the folks who want kids, but know they can't afford to care for them.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:50 AM
Feb 2015

And don't want to make the state pay to support them.

So they go childless, and there's certainly 'choice' involved there, but it's one proscribed by economic burden.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
41. Yet the culture it creates when the pope says something like that...
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:26 AM
Feb 2015

creates social shame for the childless. No one should have to justify WHY they don't have children to anyone.

LittleGirl

(8,279 posts)
7. I didn't get to choose and
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:20 AM
Feb 2015

throwing all of us (childless people/couples) under the bus is getting really tiring with these religious bastards. Fuck the pope.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
38. That was my first reaction......FUCK the Pope!
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:18 AM
Feb 2015

sideways!

He can kiss my childless ass. I think its SELFISH for the Catholic Church to KEEP all the treasure it stole from indigenous peoples .......and to continue to live lavishly in the Vatican with all their "Holy Booty".

Give it BACK you greedy assholes!

Lets not even consider all the children they have damaged hiding the pedophiles in their ranks...

He has one helluva nerve!

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
8. Says the man in charge of a whole bunch off men and women who are themselves childless
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 06:53 AM
Feb 2015

I think that mote in the pope's eye may be a big one.

loudsue

(14,087 posts)
9. This planet has got to stop breeding people so fast. It's dangerous on every single front.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:10 AM
Feb 2015

The pope needs to get a clue.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
16. +1000
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 08:59 AM
Feb 2015

Seriously. There is nothing more selfish than bringing children into the world if you know that you are not able to care for them properly. There are too many people who breed without giving a thought to whether or not they are capable of giving a loving, stable home to a child.

 

fbc

(1,668 posts)
11. I sort of agree with this statement.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:45 AM
Feb 2015

I don't have kids and do not want them for purely selfish reasons. I love that my time belongs to me.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
12. He acts as if that kind of selfish is a bad thing
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:50 AM
Feb 2015

I agree with him, but the hypocrisy, El Papa!
The hypocrisy!

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
14. He's got it backwards
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 08:45 AM
Feb 2015

For a person to recognize that they have a tendency to want their time and their space for themselves and that they aren't inclined to give any of it up for a child is recognizing limits that would interfere with being a good parent.

hatrack

(59,578 posts)
15. So the Duggars are less selfish than most?
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 08:49 AM
Feb 2015

Sorry Francis, but YOU DON'T FUCKING KNOW people's circumstances, characters or worth by the number of kids they have or don't have. Unbelievable.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
17. Due to my exposure to Agent Orange
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:08 AM
Feb 2015

I chose to not father children even though I've tried my best to be a good dad to two boys/men now. Had nothing to do with religion I might add.

Anyways the pot calling the kettle black there isn't it 'father'
So many of your kind have been found to be and many more accused of, pedophilia, with young boys cause they can't give birth. Clean house then I might listen to you on this.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
29. I dunno. I actually do think he is more progressive than the rest of the Church in a few ways.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:56 AM
Feb 2015

So he drops some off the cuff remark, and then is probably surrounded by cardinals badgering him passive-aggressively until he walks back whatever he said to stay more 'doctrine'. So I'm guessing it's more of an unwillingness to break through the accumulated deadwood with an iron fist, and an attempt to 'massage' the Church into a new path. And frankly, I don't think that will work. Too much accumulated 'tradition' that will need to either simply be overturned at once, or it simply won't dislodge, and the next Pope along will simply undo whatever minor bits of change he might create.

 

Triana

(22,666 posts)
21. Dear Pope: How Not To Be A Dick To Your Childfree Friends
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:32 AM
Feb 2015

. . .

3. “You’re just selfish.”

Despite this statement being a bitter, vitriolic insult, for some reason people feel comfortable saying it to my face when in the kid context. The thing is, no one would call me selfish if I had said, “No, I’d rather not lend you $241,080 you’ll never pay back, thanks.” ($241,080 is the average cost to raise a child in 2013 according to CNN Money, by the way –- and that’s not including college tuition.)

So while refusing to lend your friends money or let a stranger borrow your car is just common sense, politely declining to live with and care for an expensive, time-consuming human being that you actually kinda-sorta-no-wait-really don’t want? That’s just selfish! (Riiiight.)

If you think critically about it, not having kids -– and all the vigilance that entails for many people -– is actually a pretty unselfish choice. If you don’t want to be a parent, you may not make a very good one – in fact, you may wind up resentful and bitter, or even abusive (emotionally or physically).

The mythology surrounding parenthood –- self-sacrifice, unpaid and often unappreciated hard labor -– goes a long way to support the idea that childfree people are just selfish. But at its core, choosing to have children (and dedicate your life or large part of it to them) is a self-motivated –- and therefore selfish -– act.




THE REST:

http://www.xojane.com/family/how-not-to-be-a-dick-to-your-childfree-friends

_ _ _ _ _ _ _


TIME: Childfree Adults Are Not "Selfish"

. . .


The idea that women don’t have babies because they are “selfish” is not only reductive, in so many cases, it is simply incorrect. My husband and I chose not to have children for myriad reasons. I’d say selfishness is not among them. First and foremost, neither of us was ever keen on the kid thing. I’ve never felt a desire to get pregnant or give birth. If I have a biological clock, it’s on mute. As for my husband: I once asked him to hold a six-month-old that had been left in our care. He held the infant in the same awkward way that one holds a clutch of deadly mold spores.

Just as significant is the issue of lifestyle. I am a writer. My husband is an artist. We live paycheck to paycheck and go long spells without health insurance and dental cleanings. Our schedules are beyond erratic. I often write on weekends. My husband has had jobs that require regular night shifts. And there’s the issue of travel. Last year, we trotted off to Peru for several weeks when my husband was asked to do a series of installations at an old Inca sun temple. The year before that, I spent five weeks in Costa Rica on assignment for a guidebook company. For me, there is no greater joy than slipping on a pair of rubber boots and going to meet an encampment of gold miners in the middle of a rainforest. For my husband, bliss is sitting at a drafting table, surrounded by paint, razor blades and paint sticks. These are the things we love to do. And while we could have found some way to squeeze children into this complicated equation, neither of us was very interested in doing so — just like neither of us is very interested in watching major league baseball or the Lifetime network.

(MORE: Life Without Kids)

Yet, over the course of our marriage, we’ve been peppered with the kid question — from distant uncles, hair dressers, bartenders, bosses, the postman and even the neighbor lady: Don’t you have kids? When are you going to have kids? Early on, I learned that the worst thing I could do was to give an honest answer. Saying “I don’t want kids” simply set me up as a challenge to be surmounted. I’ve spent BBQs and cocktail parties fending off some inquisitor who made it their mission to convince me to reproduce. In my twenties, I got around this by telling people that I simply wasn’t ready to have a baby. But now that I’m in my 40s, I can’t use that excuse — and so the entreaties cascade in. It’s now or never. You’re not getting any younger. Aren’t you afraid you’ll regret the decision? That’s kind of selfish, don’t you think? Needless to say, the questions are generally directed at me — not at my husband.

In so much of what is reported, childless adults are often depicted as slavishly self-involved: people who sacrifice communal bonds in order to hole up with box wine and re-runs of the Walking Dead. In our case, it couldn’t be farther from the reality. In choosing not to have children, we have not abdicated obligations to friends and family. When my father developed brain cancer, I took him to treatment almost every day for eight weeks. When my mother-in-law had an aneurysm, my husband took off to help care her for her. In the coming years, I will watch nieces grow up and keep a close eye on friends who might feel depressed. I will spend a great deal of time with people I care for deeply.

My decision not to have children was never made out of some desire to keep my life out of the hands of others. If anything, I have simply chosen to share my life in a different way. Sure, I may one day regret this decision. I may also regret a heap of other things. Not spending more time with my father. Being a jerk to a good friend. Eating too much pizza. But perhaps a bigger regret would consist of being strong-armed into having a baby I simply never wanted.


THE REST:

http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/01/no-regrets-why-i-dont-have-children/

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

23 Responses to 23 Awful Statements Made to Childfree People


. . .

5. "You're being selfish."

Huh? For deciding what to do with my body parts and my life? For not caring about non-existent children? What?

(For women, I believe this about “denying” your partner, I think, the right to access your uterus whenever s/he wants. Or you are selfishly keeping a magical baby away from someone? I don’t know. It’s a popular but never explained response.)

THE REST:

http://bigthink.com/against-the-new-taboo/23-responses-to-23-awful-statements-made-to-childfree-people

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
31. ^------Comment really worth reading above. Triana put up a lot of good food for thought there.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:59 AM
Feb 2015

Plus, of course, with ever dwindling resources in the hands of the 99%, it's getting to the point where it simply takes more than two adults to raise a child. It really does 'take a village', and many of those 'selfish' childless adults are making large financial investments in nieces and nephews, or the children of friends.

Holly_Hobby

(3,033 posts)
22. I chose not to have children because
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:35 AM
Feb 2015

of alcoholism, mental illness and drug addiction in my family. I think passing on those genes on is selfish and irresponsible. Not that it's any of the Pope's damn business. Thou shall not judge? Hypocrite.

In addition to my family's genes, I was raised by a mentally ill mother who damaged me, I wouldn't be a good parent - you do what you know. I wouldn't want to put a child through what I went through.

My motherly instincts are put to good use with animals.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
25. You selfish minx.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:47 AM
Feb 2015

Of course that was . Geeze, you'd think if the Pope is willing to recognize climate change, he'd also recognize that we have too damned many people on the planet causing climate change.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)
[/center][/font][hr]

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
42. Your decision was the complete opposite of selfish.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:38 AM
Feb 2015

It shows just how out-of-touch the pope and his church are with real life.

 

Yorktown

(2,884 posts)
24. The Pope also said he understood the Charlie Hebdo killers.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:40 AM
Feb 2015

He's a friendly, personable individual.

That such a person could utter such rubbish shows how brain corrosive religion is.

Bettie

(16,073 posts)
26. It isn't a selfish choice
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:49 AM
Feb 2015

If you know yourself well enough to know that you honestly don't want children, that is a wonderful thing.

Too many people have kids because it is the expected thing.

I have three boys. DH and I thought long and hard before we made a decision to have kids. In the end, it was the right choice for us, though our plan was for only the first two, the third was a surprise (at age 42 for me, yikes!) and is a wonderful little guy.

But I digress...the point is, if you don't want to be a parent, you should be able to choose that without people constantly questioning you about it.

livetohike

(22,123 posts)
28. I have been told that by quite a few people in my life, rude as they are. I am nearly 63 years old
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:55 AM
Feb 2015

and married for almost 40 years. So hearing the same from the Pope doesn't surprise me.

I didn't have children, because I didn't want children. What is so hard to understand about that? When I was younger and of child bearing age, I thought people asked that question expecting some sort of excuse. There is no excuse. Just my free will.

 

peace13

(11,076 posts)
30. Please explain why god refuses to send children to millions of childless people who want them?
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:58 AM
Feb 2015

God and the Pope should probably stay out of the discussion of folks having babies. That is unless the Pope wants to come right out and lay it on the table....we need the babies to keep our numbers up which in turn keeps the money rolling in!

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
33. So does this finally mean the Church is going to let priests get married?
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:01 AM
Feb 2015

I guess the Pope is immune to irony.

rurallib

(62,382 posts)
34. And thus the Pope sheds his veneer of liberalism
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:09 AM
Feb 2015

let us reproduce until we kill our little nest in space for the glory of the magic man in the sky. He will take care of us!
Or maybe we have intelligence to solve problems before they kill us and overpopulation is a huge problem.

 

Smarmie Doofus

(14,498 posts)
35. Huh. Whatever Happened to Pope Groovy?
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:11 AM
Feb 2015

You remember...... the "new and improved" pontiff that the media ( and the church PR machine) was assuring us last year was... well... NEW AND IMPROVED ?

That was pretty quick. ( The transformation and the re-transformation, that is.)

What's going on up there, god?

MineralMan

(146,255 posts)
37. Says a childless man who presides over a church where all of its leaders
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:17 AM
Feb 2015

are required to be childless by decree. Height of hypocrisy.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
39. The pope clearly does not understand what the life of an unwanted child IS!
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:20 AM
Feb 2015

An unwanted child lives this life knowing they are not welcome here. We have no sense of belonging in this world. We try to fit in but we never really feel welcome.

Most suffer physical and/or psychological abuse at the hand of their mothers. We live our lives with our most basic needs of acceptance and care never met. Our sense of security and comfort is not developed so we live our lives in a state of underlying fear and trauma.

We are born behind every wanted child; we have to play catch up just to be functional in society. We have a lifetime of low self esteem, self worth and confusion about who we are. We live in deep sadness all the time, but we learn how to mask this to get along.

The real selfishness, Mr Pope, is forcing mothers to carry and raise unwanted children so your church can have a bigger flock!!!!!!


malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
70. I think you stated it so eloquently...
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:21 PM
Feb 2015

that you should make it your own OP.

I've seen too many children suffer undeserved pain and torture.

Better to not be born than suffer that hell. Fuck those that believe 'suffer the children' should be law.

The2ndWheel

(7,947 posts)
40. It is
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:22 AM
Feb 2015

Society needs more people to function. You can't just take from society. You also have to give back. Society needs more consumers, and it needs more taxpayers, to create jobs and maintain civil society. Aging populations like Japan, Europe, the US, we don't know how to make that work. That's we want/need people coming from what are essentially the baby factories in the developing world.

We don't have to worry about anything yet, since the global population of humans is still increasing. If that ever actually physically starts to decline, and if it keeps happening in the developed world, that should be an interesting time in the experiment.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
45. Having more than 2 kids..
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 10:45 AM
Feb 2015

... is selfish, as population growth will end someday, either by careful planning or by Malthusian catastrophe.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
46. And yet he himself and the 1.2 million or so celibates he commands are all childless by choice...
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:01 AM
Feb 2015

Probably the largest group of people sworn to childless lives on the planet are those who follow Francis. What a staggeringly hypocritical and self serving man he is.

displacedtexan

(15,696 posts)
47. The church always needs new tithers.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 11:09 AM
Feb 2015

If people stop having children, who will support the pope's lifestyle?

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
48. say what you will about the Mormons
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:26 PM
Feb 2015

but at least they actually supply their poorer families with food and diapers. They realize that having large families is impossible without making support available to families.

 

bobjacksonk2832

(50 posts)
49. Quite the hypocrite the Pope is
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:51 PM
Feb 2015

If his highness feels that not having children is a form of selfishness, why doesn't he bother having children as well? In the end, this is more of the two-faced nature of the RCC. And in any case, our planet is too overcrowded as it is. Does the pope have any plans to help foot the bill for the expenses needed to take care of these future children? Probably not.

Response to bobjacksonk2832 (Reply #49)

Warpy

(111,152 posts)
57. You mean like HE DID?
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 08:40 PM
Feb 2015

Oh, wait, it's only WOMEN who have to produce offspring they are unprepared to raise and too poor to feed. Males can become part of the church and rise above such concerns.

With 7 billion of us on the planet, humanity has gone from being part of the ecosystem to getting close to proving Malthus. Not having children or limiting one's family to one or two children are both sensible and compassionate.

Producing 10+ children who suffer from lack of resources including parental attention just because His Hatness doesn't like birth control is not sensible, nor is it compassionate to the children or an overburdened planet.

It's time for that church to grow the fuck up and realize women are first and foremost human beings and the equal of men, that we have the right to decide who comes to and from our bodies, not livestock or walking flowerpots into which men plant their seeds with absolutely no right to self determination.

This pope is just as bad as the rest of them when it comes to realizing these things about half the human race.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
62. In what sense is it selfish?
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 09:26 PM
Feb 2015

As far as I can tell, people tend to have children because they want them. Considering our population problems, that seems the only choice that could be considered selfish.

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