What is all the fuss about whether or not it was a hate crime when three beautiful, innocent people

[kelliekat44]

were shot and killed? The media is spending a lot time stoking the racial card talking about whether or not it was a hate crime. Three people are dead PERIOD. They shot and killed by a white man. They were non-white. They were of the Islamic faith. Try the SOB, find him guilty of murder and send him to prison for life. PERIOD!!

[Fred Sanders]

1. If you have to ask it can not be easily explained why the "fuss". Ask a criminal lawyer and the father.

The father of two dead beautiful children who is a psychiatrist and was aware of the history between Killer Craig and his children. No one else is as aware. His opinion is the only one I respect without question. What axe does he have to grind?

Then tune in to some TV cable news and ask yourself again, sir.

Also review some previous threads on the subject of the strange "fuss".

[uponit7771]

5. +1, the sister also knew the history and was on MSNBC this morning and let the cat out of the

... bag..

It was a visitor parking spot, the guy wasn't mentally "sick" just a hateful bigot and this wasn't over some parking space when people get killed execution style

[Fred Sanders]

15. The cat was out of the bag the day of the slaughter, it is the media trying to put it back in.

[whatthehey]

2. Because it's a good opportunity to shoot back at criticism of religion

The shot is wild and barely aimed admittedly.

You see it's like this: When a group that is affiliated with Muslim extremists Al Qaeda in Yemen (who agree with them and take responsibility) shoot a bunch of people who "offended" against a disputed hadith in Islam against iconism, while screaming "Allah is great", and where nobody connected with or investigating the crime ever suggested a secular motive, DU in its collective wisdom decides religion had nothing to do with it and the guys were just mad about colonialism and seeking recruits (although recruits to what if its not a religious group is anyone's guess).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026067756


When a single atheist kills some Muslims with whom he had a long-running dispute about the entirely secular subject of parking and, so far at least, the police, not the most leftist cossetters of Muslims in anyone's book, are not making any indication that there was a religious component to the crime (could change later, who knows?), DU in its collective wisdom assumes he must have decided to start a one man annihilation of religion war after 46 years in the Bible Belt because he hated believers a lot all of a sudden. You'll even note familiar names making both these claims....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026211752

So why does it matter if this is a hate crime? Apparently in great part some mean widdle atheists hurt the poor fee-fees of some DU believers in the past and this is their chance to lash out at a whipping boy.

[Fred Sanders]

3. How much wrongness and not understanding can one have? DU'ers are right, your view is clouded.

[whatthehey]

35. And you speak for them? Messianic much?

Why was he religiously motivated and the Paris mass murderers not again exactly?

[Fred Sanders]

37. Obama explained it very well. Listen to him, he IS your leader and you respect him, right?

[uponit7771]

7. IT WAS A VISITOR PARKING SPOT!! There was no "dispute" he had no right to it and executed these

...people... shooting them in their heads.

There was no "long0runnign" disupte about parking...

It wasn't his to begin with and was told multiple times by the owners to stop making trouble...

[Fred Sanders]

16. People without the facts just make stuff up. Anyone with an understanding of the facts would know

this was not a "dispute". It is like being sucker punched and saying there was a "dispute".

Do the three killed young students look or appear like the disputing kind compared to the killer, is what I would ask folk to open their eyes to? The two that just got married and the sister of the bride?

Really?

Open you eyes, harken to the evidence, before the judgment.

[uponit7771]

20. +1, why this is being downplayed is beyond me

[Fred Sanders]

23. My opinion: the media knows its own Muslim coverage is a contributory factor and so avoids mention.

The 'parking spot' is their lame and much too convenient way to avoid any responsibility and so they can continue with the subtle and sometime blatant (Fox) wall to wall Islamphobia and general fearmongering and exaggeration of terrorist threats to Americans half a world away. The media will not easily give up the ratings that fear mongering brings. And they have lots of B roll war stuff gathering dust.

[dsc]

30. He certainly was obsessed with parking

to the point that the towing company was fed up with him. Now that doesn't preclude religion being a motive here and this being a hate crime, but it is beyond absurd to argue this guy wasn't obsessed with who parked where within that complex.

[el_bryanto]

9. Good response - totally unbiased.

DU in it's collective wisdom you say? I seem to remember plenty of DUers implying that the Charle Hebdo murders were an indictment of all religion. Didn't you notice that?

Bryant

[Fred Sanders]

19. Do have any idea of the timeline from when Baharat got married to the time his bride moved in?

The response was correct because the author understands the time line and that it was a VISITORS spot, and Hicks picked and killed three Muslims after harassing them multiple times brandishing a gun.

[el_bryanto]

22. That doesn't follow. nt

[Fred Sanders]

25. So you admit your grasp of the facts and timelines is inadequate to render any meaningful opinion?

[el_bryanto]

26. I don't think anybody at DU has the full story on what motivated this murder

I do think I have a grasp of facts as to how people respond to various tragedies at DU, which was my primary point of contention.

When the Charles Hebdo murders occurred we were subjected to two weeks of posts about how evil religion is; do you deny that?

[whatthehey]

36. I linked to an actual thread that said the exact opposite if you cared to read it

[uponit7771]

4. It was a visitor parking spot, The media is leaving this out on purpose!!! It was a hate crime PERIO

... and the person who did the mass killing of Muslims because they were Muslim was a known asshole.

You don't kill people execution stile because of some stupid VISITOR parking space and he wasn't mentally "sick" he knew what he was doing

[Fred Sanders]

6. Like Hicks had a lot of visitors himself given his angry personality.

And he only started harassing Baharat after he got married and brought his bride and family visited...using the parking spot I guess, and wearing scary Muslim garb and laughing and having fun after the wedding...drove hm mad with hate for the Muslims....killed in their homes after breaking in, never touched another resident...

The media is parking their own guilt in the spot.

[uponit7771]

8. +1, yes... the sister told the story the media doesn't want to tell. The guy was ok until he....

... brought his new bride home which showed his religion.

People, and the local police, are being obtuse on this on purpose

[riderinthestorm]

10. I'm trying to get up to speed on this story so bear with me for a question

Other links are demonstrating that Hicks was some kind of condo parking Nazi. Did he just start that bullshit with these three or did he have a history of being a parking Nazi before these three?

The other links say that tow companies wouldn't pick up any cars anymore when he called. The married couple had only been there two months since they were married in mid-December. I guess I'm trying to figure out the timeline here.

[Fred Sanders]

18. Please know Baharat was a bachelor. Married and his bride moved into this place a month ago.

Then Hicks started harassing them, never before, and his happy relatives and visitors multiple times....and killed them.

Hicks was planning this for some time.....because he focused his anger on Muslims just like the asshat media is focussing anger on Muslims.

Some folks, some folks with guns, are too dumb to separate the TV images from the real world.

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. Because someone set fire to an Islamic education center this morning in Houston.

And, if we give hate crimes a pass, we will see this daily. Hate crimes must be exposed and punished fully.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. Then why is DU so silent about hate crimes against LGBT people? Someone set fire to a gay bar

with 700 people in it on New Year's Eve going into 2014. DU did not give a shit. Several LGBT people were murdered in the US for being gay, DU says not a word, even about those shot execution style by a guy who said he was doing it for religion and politics. There were OP's but few comments.
In Texas in June last year, some straight man shot two young gay women, one was killed. DU? Unconcerned. In August, a gay man in SF was taken off life support after being beaten. DU did not really notice that one....

My community already sees this daily, the larger community does not expose nor punish this full, in fact in many of the cases the larger community is apathetic to this reality.

For 2013, the FBI counts 1,461 victims of hate crimes against sexual orientation, 60.9% of which are against gay men.
FBI counts 1,233 victims of hate crimes against religious people, 60.3% against Jewish people, 13.7% against Muslims.

And yet the groups who are most often victims of hate crimes get virtually no support in fighting against those crimes. Year after year after year.

So I guess after a year in which DU yawned about one hate crime murder after another, it is good that finally, at long last, one such crime had victims worthy of attention. The contrast to the reaction to other hate crimes is fairly startling for me.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. I don't know. It makes me sick.

To be honest. It shouldn't be that way.

[Fumesucker]

14. Indeed

[Maedhros]

29. I don't know, either.

This kind of domestic violence is a much larger threat to our freedom than fundamentalist Islamic militias in Syria.

[Fred Sanders]

17. Hate crimes can spread more hate crimes, that is why it is important to examine. The media sucks.

[uponit7771]

21. Amen!!

[HappyMe]

24. Because it was a hate crime.

Shutting up about hate crimes does nothing to help awareness.

Not that long ago there was a rash of hate crimes against gay men in NYC. They were being beaten simply because they were gay. Those were hate crimes. It would have been pretty stupid to not point out that those men were gay. Just as it would be stupid to not point out that those people were Muslim.

[Fred Sanders]

27. The folks who say we should all shut up and ignore the rampant Islamaphobia need to wake up.

[HappyMe]

28. Yes, they do.

Ignoring Islamaphobia and hate crimes doesn't make it go away.

[NCTraveler]

31. I would really think long time duers would understand.

Hate crimes are an extremely important topic and often discussed here. Often those discussions are some of du's finest moments. Being here as long as you have and not understanding the "fuss" is somewhat strange. The fuss is real and is extremely important.

[Jamastiene]

32. Well, if you want to see the guy actually sent to prison for life,

you had better hope they can add hate crime to the list, because it is hard to get white male murderers into prison for life. Have you checked out death row and/or any lists of who lifers usually are lately. It isn't white men.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

33. Well, actually....

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=86

TOTAL NUMBER OF DEATH ROW INMATES IN THE USA: 3,108

Race of Defendant:

White 1,334 (43.10%)
Black 1,291 (41.71%)
Latino/Latina 391 (12.63%)
Asian 45 (1.42%)
Native American 33 (1.07%)
Unknown 1 (0.03%)

Obviously, I believe AA are more likely to get sentenced to death row in certain states for crimes that if white committed them they would not. But many of those on death row are spree/serial killers, and that's a white male demographic.

[Fred Sanders]

34. Good thing the death penalty imposed thousands of times has ended murdering.

The death penalty is not justice, it is revenge.