I'm totally in agreement ISIS does not represent Islam. So, what name/label would fit?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

I don't even want to use the current alternative, "jihadist."

Let's come up with another way of referring to these murderous bastards that denies them the association with Islam that they would prefer -- and if it's a mocking name, so much the better.

Acronyms are always good.

[giftedgirl77]

1. RWNJ

Ours just haven't gotten that extreme yet.

[Thinkingabout]

2. Barbarians

[AngryAmish]

3. daesh

That is what their opponents call them.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

6. Any idea what that translates to?

[AngryAmish]

9. nope, can't speak arabic

https://pietervanostaeyen.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/on-the-origin-of-the-name-daesh-the-islamic-state-in-iraq-and-as-sham/

Try this.

Also, go to r/syriancivilwar. Way better than the western press.

[KG]

10. the phonetic equivalent of the arab version of the acronym for isis

[KG]

4. religeously insane animals

[AgingAmerican]

5. Religious Fundamentalists

Religious Fundamentalists take scripture literally.

[Yo_Mama]

7. They're not even taking the Koran seriously.

A lot of what they have done is against any sort of orthodox Islam.

[AngryAmish]

11. Wrong.

They take it quite literally. Throw in apocalyptic worldview - they are looking for the end of the world.

[Yo_Mama]

14. They take bits and pieces, but not the whole Koran and the Hadith.

They have also declared themselves the Caliphate, which in Islam means that any Muslim not obeying them is in rebellion against the faith.

[AngryAmish]

17. We can argue about this, but they see themselves as a true defender of the faith.

They are an enemy. You must know your enemy. They think the are the best Muslims, and us arguing who is a better muslim is quite beside the point. Find their motivation and turn their strength, devotion to the literal word of the Koran and Hadith, and bend that to a brittle weakness to shatter them.

The smart way to do it is find the brothers and cousins of those who have lost limbs or were whipped for smoking and arm them.

[Yo_Mama]

38. They think they are the ONLY TRUE MUSLIMS.

They are incredibly dangerous, but really what it comes down to is that they have declared war on other Muslims who won't obey them.

That is their weakness. You and I probably don't disagree at all.

[AgingAmerican]

23. Which is what one has to do

To take it literally. Obsess over bits and pieces.

[Panich52]

8. That's too easy. And probably not correct

They're an extreme version of the fundies here but I think both merely use religion as a cover f/ bigotry and desire f/ power.

I like 2 other replies better: barbarians or DAESH.
..

[AgingAmerican]

12. The GOP would do the same things ISIL is doing

...if they thought they could get away with it.

I work with a right wing fundie preacher. He says their goal is to return Christianity to what it was during the middle ages. Burning witches and such.

Same shit, different prophet.

[merrily]

28. Maybe, but not all religious fundamentalists slaughter people.

[Yo_Mama]

13. There is an association with Islam, but it's a perverted sect whose actions

show that they don't take Islam seriously.

They're kind of like the Inquisition. Making up the rules or twisting them to suit themselves.

I would go with the Islamic Empire of Snuff Flicks. Or one could just go with a pretty respected group:
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Muslim-clerics-demand-crucifixion-of-ISIS-terrorists-who-burned-Jordanian-pilot-to-death-389959

Egypt's top Muslim authority, the 1,000 year old Al-Azhar university revered by Sunni Muslims around the world, issued a statement expressing "deep anger over the lowly terrorist act" by what it called a "Satanic, terrorist" group.

By now I would say that a good portion of the world does view them as Satanic terrorists.

[MellowDem]

15. It represents a part of Islam...

And until that is understood, people are just ignoring the problem, all to hold on to their belief system. It's inconvenient for people that identify with a belief system filled with hateful, bigoted shit to own up to the bad parts, and easier to pretend they don't exist and those who take them seriously aren't "true" Muslims. We've seen this often with Christianity in the US.

It's just religious privilege that allows these sort of dishonest assessments.

[edhopper]

19. Yes, this.

I doubt with a billion Muslims any one group represents Islam. But they represent a part of Islam and it's not insignificant unfortunately.

While it is unfair to say they represent Islam, it is also untrue to say their Islamic beliefs don't play a big role in their actions.

[F4lconF16]

55. This x1000

While it is unfair to say they represent Islam, it is also untrue to say their Islamic beliefs don't play a big role in their actions.

Exactly. No, they do not represent Islam. But they are Muslims. Just as the KKK does not represent Christianity, but they are Christians.

Religious privilege is a tough thing to get past.

[edhopper]

60. Saying religion has nothing to do with it

makes religion a ineffectual construct that has no impact on humanity. And we know that aint true.

[el_bryanto]

24. The problem people are ignoring is the continued practice of Islam, I take it?

Or what is the problem that people are ignoring, and how could it be fixed?

I assume that the same problem afflicts how we look at Christianity?

Bryant

[MellowDem]

41. The problem is the bigoted and hateful parts...

of Islam, explicitly in its texts. That's a big problem, given it's a religion, and why so many want to ignore it.

[el_bryanto]

46. So if they edited those bits out of the Koran you wouldn't have an issue with it.

That doesn't seem very likely.

Bryant

[MellowDem]

50. There would be less issues overall I think...

And I have problems with any ideas that are bigoted. If they can't change, then that's worse.

[el_bryanto]

62. Nods - well some bigotry at any rate. nt

[snooper2]

72. Or they could have a secular government that keeps christians from killing their neighbor on Sunday

like we do

[merrily]

30. Yes, a tiny fraction of the world's Muslim population.

[MellowDem]

42. A significant proportion agree with...

Some very extreme beliefs according to the latest pew poll, but a tiny minority act on them. And given these beliefs are backed up explicitly in the texts of Islam, it's a real problem.

[merrily]

45. Exactly: only a tiny minority act on those beliefs.

And given these beliefs are backed up explicitly in the texts of Islam, it's a real problem.

The Bible backs up a lot of undesirable violence, sexism and other crap, too.

[MellowDem]

49. Yes, and that's a problem too...

The point is that a significant proportion Muslims condone these extremist acts or support the government that carries them out, even if they don't do the acts themselves. It's not good.

[merrily]

51. Only a tiny minority of Muslims acting violently is a problem, too?

Hmmm.

Well, according to you, the only solutions seem to be

To convert most or all Muslims to....what, exactly?

Or to wipe most or all of them off the face of the earth.

Or to alter the religion

[MellowDem]

67. Hundreds of millions of Muslims...

supporting violence, as shown in the pew poll, and an even greater percentage supporting bigotry and misogny, in keeping with their texts, is the problem.

The core problem is the religion itself. Just like for all the Abrahamic faiths. When you have a bigoted, violent, hateful belief system, that's always a problem. And Islam certainly is just that.

The solution is to convince people that it's a bad belief system. Kinda like how we try to convince Americans that conservative ideas are bad.

Is convincing people religions are a bad idea to follow too radical to you? Are you too steeped in religious privilege?

[merrily]

68. Ah, yes, nothing like attacking me because radical Islamic murder.

Is convincing people religions are a bad idea to follow too radical to you

If you actually read my post with any kind of open mind and comprehension, you will see that I listed the only three alternatives I could extrapolate from your posts. I didn't put a value judgment of good or bad on any of them. I was simply trying to figure out what the fuck the solution was that would follow from what you were saying.

Are you too steeped in religious privilege?

Did you pull that imaginary thought out of your left ear or your right? AFAIK, I have never posted whether I have a religion.

Trying to make sense of what you were posting means I am some kind of religious fanatic now?

There are about 1.7 billion Muslims. Maybe 1.8 by the time I finish this post. Go ahead and convert all of them if you can. It just doesn't seem to me to be a great way to prevent more killings as it is probably not possible and certainly very quick.

And speaking of hateful and bigoted, FYI, that is not too too far from how your posts about Muslims come across.

[MellowDem]

69. When people post about bad conservative ideas...

here, nobody jumps up wondering whether their solution involves killing all conservatives. That's religois privilege. You don't have to be religious to defend religious privilege.

If you don't think convincing people who hold bigoted beliefs to give them up is the best way, or people who identify with bigoted beliefs to stop identidying with them, thas fine, but what is your solution then?

You don't even contest that the belief system is bigoted, violent etc. you seem to be ignoring the problem.

The solution I see on here that many propose is to pretend Islam is just fine, and to hope that enough people lie to themselves about what's in the texts to not follow them. That's the solution for all religions I see most often on here. It's all from religious privilege of course, because what other equally hateful bigoted belief system that wasn't religion would be treated the same way?

And yes, it's religous privilege that allows people to think that criticizing a belief system is bigoted. You're steeped in it.

[F4lconF16]

54. +1 well said. nt.

[Throd]

16. Legion of Murderous Dicks

[Nuclear Unicorn]

21. LMD, has a nice ring to it. nt

[world wide wally]

18. PRICKS

Perpetrators
Raving
In
Cold-blooded
Killer
Shit

[Triloon]

20. Death Cult?

Like the Assassins, the Thuggees, and the Mahdi of Sudan.

[randome]

22. Whiney Losers. Tea Party.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[Yorktown]

27. wrong answer level

will repost

[randome]

29. I like that first one.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[Savannahmann]

25. The problem is that they do identify themselves.

Islamic extremist is accurate. I may not like it, but they do wrap themselves in the religion. It is merely one more thing I don't like. When a Christian Fundamentalist does something stupid I don't try to save the Christian Religion from the association done by the moron himself. The same way that a Greenpeace activist who acts to prevent whaling is labeled an environmental extremist. Islamic Extremist is accurate, if distasteful. Anything else is whitewash of the stated goals of the people and the group ISIL/ISIS/IS.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

26. I see no need to accommodate ISIS's framings or the Phelps clan and other such people.

I say mock them. Make it sting, even.

[Savannahmann]

65. But we are supposed to respect a persons choice.

Bradley Manning is now known as Chelsea Manning, we respect that, and we encourage others to do so. Personal choice on identification is supported here. We blast the RW when they oppress a person like that. Freedom of expression, freedom of choice, freedom in general man.

Yet, now I am supposed to decide who is and is not a "real" Islamic follower. I'm not a follower of Islam, so who decided I am the one who chooses for this person? As for "real Christians" I don't get to choose that either. Now I have some experience with Christianity, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that Savannahmann gets to decide if you are, or are not a believer. If you believe nothing else, believe me when I say that nobody wants me deciding anything like that.

I respect people, and their right to decide what they are, and what they aren't. As an example. If you were to decide you were Buddhist, I would applaud you. I would not challenge your right to call yourself that. I have no authority over what you call yourself. I don't want that authority. I want you to be free to be whatever your heart wants you to be. So long as you don't hurt anyone else, then I am powerless to judge you.

These islamic Extremists describe themselves as Islamic. I don't get to decide if they are, or aren't. I am not Islamic, and I have no authority to counter their claims. If I was a leader in the Islamic Faith, perhaps I would point out my opinion on the errors of their actions versus the teachings of the faith, but I wouldn't get to decide even then that they are, or are not Islamic.

If they want to call themselves members of the Teamsters, and claim authority from Jimmy Hoffa, I am in no position to say they aren't. In that case, the leaders of the Teamsters are, but not me because I'm not a Teamster much less one of the leaders.

I can't selectively apply respect for choices to people. I don't get to decide that this person is allowed to call themselves a Homosexual, but that person isn't. I don't get to decide that this person has enough blood to be descended from Slaves while that person isn't. I let you decide who you are, and I respect you for your identity which is always best described by you. If you say you are a descendant of Geronimo, I am in no position to challenge that assertion. I may ask you questions to clarify, but I won't ever say you aren't what you claim to be.

If they are "true followers of Islam" or not. I am not arrogant enough to attempt to judge. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

[leftynyc]

31. They call themselves

Islamic so I have no trouble calling them Islamic Jihadists. That you don't seem to like the term is completely irrelevant.

[Yorktown]

32. Fundamislamists? Islamurderers?

[Ykcutnek]

33. I kind of like that Daesh word that some analysts have been using. EOT

[4139]

34. "You Can't Understand ISIS If You Don't Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia "

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5717157

[uppityperson]

35. extremist fundamentalists.

[Rex]

36. Worthless Assholes with Guns. WAG.

Nothing more worthless than a dysfunctional asshole imo.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

37. They don't represent mainstream Islam

but I don't think they consider themselves anything else other than a radical form of Islam. How popular are they in the Islamic world? If it's the 22% of world Moslems that I've seen reported on television, then they're a part of Islam and not some bizarre offshoot cult.

[Initech]

39. They represent Islam in the same way the American Family Association represents Christianity.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

43. In terms of numbers?

I don't know, frankly. But if the stats mentioned in the media are true that almost one out of four Moslems support them and that majorities of Muslims in countries like Egypt approve of their methods, like beheading for blasphemy, then it's probably reasonable to consider them a part of Islam.

[Initech]

47. No In terms of "we pick and choose which parts of our book we want to worship "

Like you ever notice how the more insane a group is regarding their perceived values and ideology the more they just flat out ignore the tenets of the religion they claim to represent? Look at any group that that far to the right and they all pretty much blur together after a while. Doesn't matter what religion they follow. After a while they all tend to lose the values they claim to stand for and just start spewing hate and ignorance in the name of whatever religion they follow.

I guess the only real difference between our fundamentalists and theirs is that ours don't have AK47s. At least that we know of.

[Albertoo]

70. They represent the doctrine of Islam

Daesh goes by the Book (Quran)

[SidDithers]

40. ISIS represents a part of Islam...

Just as Jerry Falwell or the KKK represents a part of Christianity.

Sid

[beaglelover]

59. +1 ISIS members are Muslim.

It's crazy to think otherwise.

[ProfessorGAC]

44. Gangster

I have a very strong suspicion that these guys are nothing more than warlords acquiring power, influence and the ability to make money by cloaking it in this "jihad" thing.

They act far more like petty thugs than like anybody who is actually pursuing a cultural imperative.

More like the Hell's Angels, than warriors for islam.
GAC

[ileus]

48. Good guys that wear black.

[earthside]

52. They are radical Islamist extremists.

Does ISIS 'represent' Islam? No.

Is it Islamic; Muslim?

Yes.

[Aerows]

53. Violent, Evil Nutjubs

That's as much thought as I care to waste on them.

[Sheepshank]

56. PORRK

Persons
Of
Religious Radicals
Killing

[Dont call me Shirley]

57. PIG

Prostitutes of
Institutionalized
Genocide

[GusBob]

58. SHIT

Shia
Hating
Islamic
Terrorists

[dissentient]

61. Hmm, it has to be something really scary and fill people with fear...

as any good arch-villain nickname will do...

How about Dr. Doom?

Or, C.O.B.R.A. ?

I know - Brotherhood of Evil?

OH, I got a good one!

How about - Legion of Doom?

[OverseaVisitor]

63. Angey People Full of Hate

The why of it is in plain sight.

[deaniac21]

64. They call themselves

Islamic State.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

66. It may not "represent Islam" - no-one does - but it's certainly Islamic.

There are lots of groups of Muslims, with differing views on a range of issues.

No one group gets to speak for the others, and no-one - Islamic or otherwise - is responsible for anything but their own actions. So I'm not sure that "representing Islam" is a meaningful term. ISIS does not represent, say, CAIR, but nor does CAIR represent ISIS; both are strands within Islam.

So "Islamic" is a perfectly reasonable thing to call ISIS, and denying that they have an "association with Islam" is absurd - they're a group of Muslims, doing terrible things because of their interpretation of Islam, which is as much "Islam" as anyone else's.

[Kaleva]

71. Daesh

[backscatter712]

73. The problem with the major religions is they'll let any asshole become a member.

They're not selective.

Sure there are nice Muslims, and nice Christians, and nice Jews, and so on.

But all of the major religions let the extremist freaks be part of them and wave their flags.

No true Muslims, no true Scotsmen...

[Yorktown]

74. ISIS does represent Islam

Just as much as peaceful muslims do.

Why should we assume the 'good guys' of Islam represent the faith?

The text of Islam is pretty spicy. (as is the Old Testament)