woman gets on stage to dance behind performer, he punches her HARD!!! gets arrested

[Liberal_in_LA]

Woah, the ‘Because I Got High’ singer Afroman really needs to take a chill pill, and an anger management class, apparently.

Performer Joseph Edgar Foreman reacted violently to a fan jumping on-stage Tuesday in Biloxi, Mississippi, punching a woman in the face when she bumped into him during the middle of a guitar solo. Billboard reports the one-hit wonder — who recently updated his hit ‘Because I Got High’ for NORML — was arrested by local police for assault, booked and released. Here’s the whole video below. You can see he pretty much knocks her out. Fans are defending his actions saying the woman initiated the altercation when she jumped up on stage and started grinding him. But there is no world where decking her is the reasonable response. Now, if it was at a punk show — that would be a whole different thing.

Afroman has posted two updates to his Facebook page stating: “Because I didn’t get high.” And: “I apologize for my actions I will be making a full formal apology and excepting full responsibility for my actions. I will address everything today on TMZ at 2 o’clock eastern time.”
http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2015/02/18/performer-afroman-punches-woman-on-stage-gets-arrested-video/

[Nuclear Unicorn]

1. Usually, people who get high tend to be a bit more, shall we say, RELAXED.

What happened here?

[MADem]

6. The clip is too short, but it looked to me like he was surprised by a person behind him...

not "a woman grinding him." I don't think he thought that was a fan.

And hey, a person behind you could be a friend or a foe--we don't know if this guy has any enemies...maybe he was "en garde" for a reason...????

[Go Vols]

9. That's what I was thinking too

[HappyMe]

10. Pretty much what I thought also.

He's not expecting somebody to come up behind him.

[opiate69]

11. After Dimebag Darryl, all bets are off.

[melman]

61. Absolutely right

The stage is for the performers and the crew. That's it.

[Inkfreak]

164. Fucking tragedy, man. (nt)

[nomorenomore08]

533. I still think it was an asshole move on Afroman's part, but I hadn't considered your point.

Performers are, perhaps, correct to be more wary onstage nowadays.

[rollin74]

16. video below is little bit longer

he was arrested and charged with assault

[uppityperson]

19. Glad he got arrested, thanks for this longer video, WAY over reaction.

[MADem]

21. I don't get the impression that he's "beating a woman" there, either.

I get the impression that he thinks someone is stealing his wallet.

He's entirely focused on his guitar playing -- his reaction seems almost instinctive.

Usual caveats: Don't condone violence, don't think it is "OK" to hit people, etc. etc. First person to even suggest such a thing loses!

[jberryhill]

28. That's what it looks like to me

Fan or not, performers have been assaulted on stage by people who have gotten onto the stage.

He seems surprised someone is where they clearly aren't supposed to be, and reacts immediately.

If she was, in fact, grinding against him, then her unauthorized touching of his body constituted a battery against which he had a right to defend himself.

Bottom line - you aren't allowed to trespass and touch people without their consent.

[phil89]

50. Riiight and when

he looks down and sees a woman he just laid out, and just keeps playing? What a disgusting defense of this idiot.

[jberryhill]

51. He's supposed to stop the performance the audience paid for...

...because some asswipe decided she was going to star in the show?

It's unfortunate she got hit. It's likewise unfortunate she decided to commit two crimes in the lead up to it.

IOKIYKR:

So, the security guys should have been arrested here:

[ND-Dem]

92. what two crimes did she commit?

in the stones video, keith didn't deck the guy. a male performer, a male fan who seemingly just wanted to run across the stage.

in the minaj video, it was a male fan trying to get close to a female performer who was smaller than her. and I still think her security overreacted by kicking the guy once they got ahold of him. there was so much security they could have just grabbed the guy by his arms, carried him out of there, then called the police.

in the video in question, it was a male performer punching out a female fan who he outweighed by at least 50 pounds, I'd guess. there was no security.

[jberryhill]

93. Trespassing and battery

Her admission ticket did not authorize her to be on the stage. She was an invitee for the limited purpose of remaining in the audience. She became a trespasser when she got onto the stage without permission. That's number one.

I know this comes as a surprise to many people here, but you are not allowed to touch other people without their consent, and certainly not with your ass. The battery is number two.

[ND-Dem]

98. if someone trespasses on my property i'm still not allowed to beat them. nor am i legally allowed

to beat anyone who touches me.

[jberryhill]

119. Given the frequency with which performers are assaulted onstage

His reaction to being assaulted by someone coming up from behind him does not seem out of bounds to me at all.

Is it unfortunate? Yeah.

Is it unusual? Not at all. Have you seen what normally happens in these circumstances in any of the other videos posted on this thread?

Only a problem if a black guy does it, I guess.

[ND-Dem]

126. youtube has dozens of videos of performers dancing with fans, even 'grinding' with fans, and

fans on stage dancing.

black and white performers, black and white fans.

no, the problem is when a male performer decks the harmless female fan he substantially outweighs with a roundhouse punch.

[reddread]

127. screw em

THEY put themselves out there, usually in order to sell alcohol.
OCCASIONALLY promoting drug use, implying permissiveness and
possibly even the whole "peace, love and acceptance" ambience of
MARIJUANA CONSUMPTION.
this sorry, woman beating, excuse for a human being has no ground to stand on, caught clearly on tape.
egotistical performers are deserving of NO MORE PROTECTION THAN THEIR VENUE CAN PROVIDE.
that is where the fault lay.
I would never deprive or dismiss the fundamental right of self protection.
I would extend it well into the realm of vengeance, and perfectly understand if that poor fool's significant other
jumped up on stage and showed Mr. about to be living one of the most unfortunate career destructions in history's
dumb ass, where he fucked up.
that crowd should be ashamed, each and every one of them.

[Vattel]

138. well-said

[Vattel]

137. omg, now you suggest that people who are decent enough to

be repulsed by his actions are actually just racist. Amazing.

[uppityperson]

202. I am appalled no matter the skin color of the assaulter. He was not assaulted, he assaulted her.

good grief.

Video in post #16 shows clearly he assaulted her. To call what she did assault is ludicrous to say the least.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6244429

[tonedevil]

116. Fortunately...

you didn't get to decide the disposion of this incident. How do you explain the fact that the woman was not arrested and the performer was?

[jberryhill]

118. Easy - Biloxi, Mississippi

Take a look through this thread.

How do you explain the fact that NO WHITE PERFORMER who has similarly dealt with on-stage interlopers was charged with anything.

Keith Richards goes medieval on some guy with his guitar. No problemo.

[ND-Dem]

123. keith richards didn't knock the guy to the ground or punch him in the head. keith richards

didn't punch a woman he outweighed.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

253. Well, if you want to get all inhuman and technical about this,

how do you know the ticket made any stipulation as to the bearer being restricted from the onstage area?

[treestar]

330. Interesting point - she did assault first

though his response could be excessive, but it does look immediate and impulsive.

[WinkyDink]

524. FUNNY how you're concentrating on HER alleged infractions.

[tabasco]

383. That's exactly what he's supposed to do

You think a five-minute interruption of the show is more important than getting medical assistance for an injured person?

That's pretty fucked up.

[WinkyDink]

523. "It's unfortunate she got hit. It's likewise unfortunate she...." "SHE GOT HIT"?? NO---HE HIT HER.

"LIKEWISE UNFORTUNATE"? NO---HIS VIOLENCE IS NOT "LIKEWISE" ANYTHING SHE DID.

[Vattel]

136. Incredible that anyone would be defending him.

[tabasco]

384. Mind boggling and very sad

The human species continues to devolve.

[treestar]

505. I dunno, I think sometimes you need to open your mind up

and at least consider a question. Things are not always that simple. He would have a defense attorney who would at least say something about her actions too. Maybe he's guilty of assault 3rd (unless she had injuries, which might bump it up) but she too should have been charged with offensive touching.

[840high]

169. +100 hey it's only a woman

[Rex]

320. Curious, what right does he have when she bumps him with her butt?

How does butt bumping and cold cocking someone in the face equal out in court?

[treestar]

504. She is guilty at least of offensive touching

sort of the line between legal and legal, the least possible crime. Any unpermitted touching is punishable as Offensive Touching. It is a misdemeanor, and there is a possible 30 days in jail. Though usually they end up with a fine. I think it has an added element of you have reason to know it would cause alarm or offense.

His response of probably too much force, but I could see where he could argue he was surprised.

She should have been arrested too, if she wasn't. And at least charged with OT.

[Rex]

509. I understand that, but I meant in court is there some unwritten rule

say some stranger slaps you in the face, so you return with equal force and slap them in the face. The law would expect you to meet force with equal force - that sounds reasonable. She bumped him and he returned it with overwhelming force. I wonder if he would have just simply bumped her back with his hip, if the entire thing would have melted into just an awkward scene and nothing more. Now he has to go to court for assault, I just wish he wouldn't have punched her in the face.

Also, some people freak out when you get in their personal space and I bet nobody EVER tries and 'bump' him again. Not after seeing that video. You know she woke up the next day feeling like a sledge hammer hit her in the face. Being drunk means not knowing the damage until you sober up.

I agree she should have been brought up on some kind of charge, but I guess there is not one for being stupid and intoxicated in a bar.

[treestar]

516. If somebody slaps you in the face

I don't think you're supposed to be able to legally slap them back. Your legal remedy is go to court and sue them for assault (you usually don't bother there, because the damages aren't enough to make it worth the trouble). Or report to the police - they will be guilty of assault. Third degree if there is no injury.

If they raise their hand to slap you and you grab it to push it away, then you're engaging in self defense.

That lady was probably guilty of "Offensive Touching" not just being drunk in a bar. I guess you could get into her intent and the fact that in a bar somebody bumping up against you isn't "offensive" enough to rise to the level of being OT.

[nomorenomore08]

534. "Equal force" is the key. Perhaps not according to the letter of the law, but still.

By almost any standard, Afroman grossly overreacted.

[Rex]

559. Ok thanks that was what I was wondering

how a judge would see this case.

[Ms. Toad]

471. With reasonable (proportionate) force.

You don't get to knock someone out because they touch you.

[jberryhill]

477. She wasn't knocked out

She was knocked down. She gets up and walks away. Being knocked out doesn't work like that.

[Ms. Toad]

487. The point is that his response was extremely excessive

compared to her barely touching him once or twice.

Self-defense, as you well know, only gives you the right to respond with the level of force reasonably necessary to deter the threatened contact.

Not to mention that characterizing her limited contact with him as "grinding on him" is ludicrous - and since the police were obviously involved and arrested him, but not her, her actions didn't fall within the criminal battery statute or they would have arrested her as well.)

I'm not disagreeing that it was tortious battery - criminal "battery" (it is called assault under Mississippi law) requires intentional or recklessly caused physical injury (or threatened physical injury).

[Hassin Bin Sober]

44. He looked at her before she went around behind him.

Then he glanced over before he hit her.

He knew what he was doing.

And he went right back to playing. That wasn't the reaction of someone who just foiled a potential crime and accidentally hit a middle aged woman with a drink in her hand. That was the reaction of a woman beater.

[jberryhill]

45. I don't think he saw her at all

He's looking at the frets on the guitar.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

47. Wow you must be looking at a different video.

He looks at her, puts his arm out, and moves his mic stand as he turns his back on her.

Was he looking at he frets on his guitar while he was moving the mic stand?

[jberryhill]

49. That's a two dimensional video

I've watched the same video several times, and do not believe he saw her at all.

Most likely when he was moving the mic stand, he was looking at the mic stand, which is not behind him and to his left.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

56. He looked right at her before he jawed her.

The little shrug after he decked her was a nice touch. He showed her how bad he is. I suppose, counselor, he was just adjusting his shirt post "oh my god I was almost robbed!!!!"

[jberryhill]

58. That was a fraction of a second

I'm pretty sure he was concentrating on his performance when she committed battery against him.

[840high]

170. He saw her - look at the 2nd video.

[ND-Dem]

91. he saw the woman before he decked her. then he saw he decked her and started playing again.

do pickpockets usually drink from plastic cups with straws as they go about their business?

[Rex]

318. Someone is stealing his wallet, on center stage with a crowd?

Would you really try that defense in court?

[MADem]

337. Now I understand you--you're a very literal individual. That explains a lot.

I did not mean that someone was "actually" stealing his wallet, I meant that he had the same reaction that someone, say, on public transportation would have if they felt someone rustling about their nether regions in an unexpected fashion.

I don't think he'll be convicted of anything in this case. I think the fact that she was trespassing on the stage and touched him without his knowledge or permission kind of obviated any hope for redress from the artist. She does have a case against the venue--they should have had more security in place to prevent her from trespassing and touching the musician, but had she not trespassed and touched, she wouldn't have had to go file a police report. Also, if she was, in fact, as drunk as she looked, she could have a case against them for overserving her.


I'll bet on some kind of settlement, or "continued without a finding." No handcuffs, no frog marching.

[Rex]

359. I do tend to take what I read literally, which is why I have a hard time with satire sometimes.

I am just glad she got up and walked away, but you have to wonder how bad she felt the next morning. Also, I am not blaming him if he initially freaked out. I might do the same if I think someone is coming up against me without knowing why or that they are there. I just can't believe he gave her a haymaker. Then again who is to say he was not on some kind of drugs at the time too.

[MADem]

371. I'll bet he can't believe he did it, either.

He did say that the show was early, he had to walk a half mile to the venue (he does not look terribly fit), and he hadn't had his medication (I won't speculate as to what he's taking, but he was very forthcoming in saying he has issues with anxiety).

I think it's an unfortunate situation that could have been avoided if the venue had done their job.

[randys1]

354. I see the problem

Black man hits white Woman


I am amazed this isnt on Fox 24/7

Meat for the savages

[polly7]

363. I've come to that conclusion too. +1000.

If someone did that to me from behind I'd clock them one too.

[randys1]

370. I dont know if I would, and that he is hitting a Woman is especially annoying to me,

but like most of these type of conversations, I dont even need to take a position or express a point of view, because witnessing the usual suspects who have a certain type of attitude when the story involves certain type of people is more entertaining that anything




too cryptic? I think you know what I mean.

[polly7]

372. I would, because I've been through it before, have been raped, have ptsd

and something like that would freak the hell out of me. We don't know what this man has been through in his life to make him strike out so quickly like that, so I give him the benefit of the doubt. Being a woman doesn't give you a pass to sexually assault another human being. And that is what she did. If the tables were turned, I can't even imagine the horror here. Strong women don't suddenly claim victim-hood when the shoe is on the other foot. Plenty of videos shown here convince me that the statement you made is true. But, I do still feel very bad for her, she didn't deserve that at all. I honestly don't believe he realized who he was slugging.

[uppityperson]

380. I would think he would show something other than that blatant disregard afterwards though.

That part is bothersome to me, unless there is more info or videos showing he checked on her or anything like that.

[polly7]

382. Yes, that bothers me too.

Maybe he was unsure of what to do, but he should have stopped and made sure she was alright.

[ND-Dem]

460. particularly as he knocked her head into the bandstand riser, something which could

have killed her if she hit right.

[polly7]

463. I agree. Yes, he should have stopped and helped her. nt.

[nomorenomore08]

535. This. If his reaction had been one of astonishment and horror, I'd cut him some slack.

As it is, he just looks like a major asshole.

[MADem]

381. I am not a fan of men hitting women either.

That said, I also don't think it's a good idea for women to hit men. I do acknowledge that there is frequently a size/strength disparity, and women are sometimes (not always but often) at a physical disadvantage when things get physical which is why men should think hard and hold their tempers when they have an opportunity to analyze a situation.

But I don't think this story is being accurately framed by many contributors to this thread. That artist had no reason, no purpose, no desire in his heart, to "woman beat." He was there to do a show, he was playing his guitar, he was surprised, and he reacted.

It's a shame that it happened, but had security kept that drunk fan off that stage, this wouldn't be a story.

[nomorenomore08]

536. True. No one should hit anyone else, except in self-defense.

Like I said above, if he'd been shocked and horrified after realizing what he did, then I'd be more understanding. But his nonchalant reaction is honestly somewhat chilling.

[Owl]

162. Wow! That dude's an A-hole!

[840high]

168. Wow- he needs to cool off in jail.

[WinkyDink]

522. WTH? Just by looking at the STILL above, one can OBSERVE that he had time to assess and STOP.

[MADem]

528. No, you can't observe that by looking at the still. nt

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

24. It depends on what he was high on and

if he was coming down.

[2naSalit]

67. That might depend

upon WHAT one gets high on...

[snooper2]

2. looks like he didn't like some random ass rubbing against his

Does need to smoke a doob and chill the fuck out though....

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. sad thing is that she was obviously a fan of his music

[Demit]

30. And thought that meant she could do what she wanted with him?

[840high]

172. Does that mean he could lay

her out cold?

[Demit]

272. No.

[ND-Dem]

101. not anymore i'm pretty sure. nor her friend that went after her (after making sure the

singer isn't going to deck him for it too.)

[SamKnause]

4. WTF ???

[Liberal_in_LA]

7. I know! he could have killed her with a head shot like that.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

254. Well, according to some people on this thread, "Oh well, she shouldn't have commited trespass and

battery." Same as all that "Stand Your Ground" BS.

Ugh!

[ND-Dem]

312. hmm, there *is* a similarity there.

[nomorenomore08]

538. Not taking into account that there's such a thing as grossly overreacting to a "threat."

What Afroman did there would be analogous to shooting someone for slapping you.

[PeaceNikki]

5. Holy shit, fuck that guy!!

[derby378]

8. Looks more like a slap than a punch, but the effect is pretty much the same

Yet another musician who isn't getting any of my money.

[Capt. Obvious]

13. He wasn't getting your money before this I'd gather

and not much from anyone else either.

[derby378]

18. I'll offer him ten bucks for his Strat

He can spend it all on the inevitable legal fees.

[MADem]

22. I dunno--he might have a case, she was trespassing on the stage, in essence, and

he can use the "I thought someone was robbing me" defense. Clearly, the guy didn't intentionally hit that woman--his perception was that something else was going on.

He probably has some kind of insurance; there will be a payment and a settlement and that will be that.

[Bonx]

62. "Clearly, the guy didn't intentionally hit that woman"

[Vattel]

142. It was an accident?

[MADem]

186. See his TMZ comments at the link at 185. He thought she was a guy who had been yelling

obscenities at him.

[Vattel]

158. He did not intentionally hit her? His perception was that something else was going on?

Why are you defending this scumbag?

[MADem]

188. Why are you responding to the same post over and over again?

And why are you calling him a scumbag when you haven't heard his side of the story?

Not very progressive to convict without hearing from him, I should think.

[Vattel]

200. Is twice over and over again? I have heard his side of the story. It doesn't help him much.

He certainly acted like a scumbag in this case.

[MADem]

230. Yes--twice is over, and over again.

Good thing you're not a judge. That said, I think he'll be OK in this case. He didn't set out to clock anyone--he was performing, he was surprised, and this was an unfortunate accident that could have been avoided had not the fan trespassed on the stage. The venue, which should have ensured his security and did not, will bear some of the responsibility if not all of it.

[Vattel]

392. Lol, you have unusually low standards for over and over again.

This was not an accident and if you really think it is then I hope you are not a judge. He clearly intentionally hit another human being. He was trying to hit someone and he succeeded. He may have thought the person he tried to hit was someone who had been insulting him, but he certainly wanted and intended to hit the person who bumped into him. And he has no self-defense justification for what he did. I am sure that you know the law well enough to realize that.

[MADem]

395. This was an accident, IMO. And I don't need to be a judge--this guy will not do any time.

The person he hit assaulted him first after trespassing on the stage.

He was responding to an encroachment upon his person. His response may have been forceful, but he was under the assumption that his person was being endangered by a man who had been harassing him.

There are witnesses to this event, and his bond was trivial. He has EVERY self-defense justification, and the drunken fan who was trespassing might not get a payday for her intemperate conduct. She's probably going to have to sue the venue to get any money unless there's an out of court settlement to avoid a nuisance suit.

[Vattel]

407. If he believed that he was endangered, which I highly doubt, his belief was unreasonable.

Thus, he doesn't have a self-defense justification.

[MADem]

467. Says you.

I'd say the minuscule size of his bond says otherwise.

[ND-Dem]

424. she must be a judge, she's already telling us what his judicial outcomes will be. repeatedly.

[randys1]

355. Black man hit white Woman (is she white?)

If she is white that might explain something

[ND-Dem]

425. what? and if you don't know whether she's white or not, what does not knowing that

explain about why you think if she's white it would explain something?

it's an endless self-referential loop

[randys1]

426. LOL

nothing to see here...

[ND-Dem]

427. nothing but that little rofl guy; used when people have nothing interesting to say and no real

case to make, but want to assert their dominance.

[randys1]

428. My observation was sarcastic, while I was posting I looked to see if she was white, because

I figured that HAD to have something to do with all the RAGE I was seeing...

I assumed she was BASED ON ALL THE RAGE<

AND i will be damned if I was right



stop trying to gotcha with me, never gonna happen

one reason is when I am wrong I instantly admit it

you see my motives arent based in fear or racism or hate

[ND-Dem]

431. you can say that all you like; doesn't mean it's true. nor does it mean you know what any-

one else's motives are, mr. internet mindreader.

I can call you racist or hater just as easily as you can call others names. doesn't mean diddly.

[cheapdate]

112. He played a venue called Main Street last year in my hometown.

I don't believe Main Street has packed the house like that since its glory days back in the 1980s. Great show. Didn't punch anybody. Good time had by all.

[Liberal_in_LA]

120. never never sneak up behind THAT guy. sheesh!

[Capt. Obvious]

12. She was gonna dance next to him

but then she got hit.

[Adrahil]

14. Hmmmm....

[MineralMan]

15. Much too strong a reaction, but the stage is for the performers.

Why anyone thinks they can climb up on the stage and crowd a performer, I will never understand. Don't do that, folks!

Some moron kicked my oboe off its stand at a wedding reception our woodwind quintet was playing. Came up to make a request and just footed a $4000 instrument. WTF? Too much champaigne, I guess.

[nomorenomore08]

539. +100

Best post of the thread.

[Jamastiene]

17. What an asshole.

He could have called security instead of smacking her like that. Dayum!

[MineralMan]

20. If there had been any real security, she wouldn't have

been up there in the first place. I'm not saying it was OK to hit her, in any way. I'm saying that the audience needs to stay off the stage. Rule 1.

[MADem]

23. I'm betting if stage security wasn't in his performance rider before, it is now.

And if it was in his rider, then the venue is footing those legal bills...

EDIT---Update here:

The musician's rep told Billboard Afroman was surprised by the person onstage, his back was turned and he didn't see her and reacted with the punch.

"This was a completely involuntary reflex reaction to people infringing on his stage space," his rep said in a prepared statement. "It was uncharacteristic behavior that was initiated by outside uncontrolled forces."

His rep blamed a lack of security at the venue -- something included on his rider -- and noted Afroman often has trouble with fans coming onstage.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-juice/6473118/afroman-arrested-for-punching-fan-onstage-mid-show

[MineralMan]

25. Yup. No security at all. The woman was on stage for some time,

and after she was hit, some guy also stepped up on stage. Bad venue with no audience control.

[MADem]

191. There was a guy on the side of the stage who was giving him a hard time--he thought she was he.

Might have been that guy, who knows?

[Vattel]

167. "Involuntary reflex reaction." What a load of shit.

Blinking when someone suddenly comes at your eyes is an involuntary reflex reaction. This was a voluntary assault.

When I play basketball, much of what I do is split second reaction, but it is not a series of involuntary reflexes. It is reactive and instinctive, but still voluntary.

[MADem]

185. Well, that's not what he said to TMZ.

http://www.complex.com/music/2015/02/afroman-arrested-for-punching-female-fan-in-face

He thought it was a guy who had been talking trash at him from the side of the stage.

And he's not a basketball player--he's a fat old musician.

Would you like someone coming up behind you while you were doing your job and touching your butt?

Sorry--I'm giving the guy the benefit of the doubt, and I do not endorse/approve of violence, either. People don't have the right to harass musicians while they're performing, this is a cautionary tale for everyone. Stay off the stage, let the musicians play--you don't have to become part of the snow.

[ND-Dem]

187. watch the long video; he saw her dancing on stage before he decked her.

[MADem]

195. I watched both videos and I'm not convinced he saw her. I am convinced he saw something and felt

something.

I mean, come on, let's get real--a performer is going to clock a woman on stage for shits and giggles? Not. He was being harassed by a guy in the same vicinity as those women earlier, as he said to TMZ, and he thought that she was that guy.

I'm amazed at how many people think that performers are property and should expect to be pawed while they're playing their instruments. Everyone has a right to not be grabbed and fondled.

If that was a woman performing up on stage and some guy came up and grabbed her ass I think there would be cheers if she clocked the guy. I'm not cheering that this guy clocked this woman, but I am saying that people need to RESPECT one another in their persons, and not assume that it's "OK" to go grabbing and rubbing them.

[Bonobo]

199. He explains quite well in the TMZ video.

He had seen two girls dancing on stage and asked them to leave. One did but he thought both had.

Meanwhile he had been heckled by a guy on the side of the stage with obscenities all night.

He thought that guy had come up behind him.

Anxiety caused a reaction and boom.

This is only an issue because:

1) People with old ideas about how women should be exempt from the results of their stupid and potentially threatening and sexually inapproporiate contact and

2) Because race is "coloring" their reactions subconsciously.

[bravenak]

336. I agree.

[one_voice]

366. +1

[polly7]

368. +1000.

Thank you for that, it helps understand why he was so quick to hit so hard. I still feel very bad for the woman, but I highly doubt if he'd believed it was her he would have done what he did.

[ND-Dem]

201. watch it again. there'd be cheers for the woman because she was weaker than the man.

this man outweighed the woman and was clearly stronger than her. .

she didn't grab him, she bumped his butt with hers. she was stupid, probably drunk, but he knocked her out. he didn't need to. and yeah, he saw her. both before and after he hit her. he saw her boyfriend too.

&feature=player_embedded#t=11

[MADem]

207. That's just absurd. He's focusing on PLAYING.

There is no "upside" to this artist cracking a woman onstage. To suggest that "Oh, he is just a big meanie and he LIKED hitting women" -- like some people in this thread are doing -- is just ... insane. He obviously feels bad about it, he wasted no time in putting out a statement.

He was being harassed by a guy in the same area, but never mind that, I guess. It's ALWAYS OK when someone goes up on stage and touches performers without their permission, I guess? The poor old fool needs to just smile and put up with that unwanted touching, even if he doesn't know who's doing it or why?

[ND-Dem]

211. he doesn't appear to feel bad at all in the video. he may have been being heckled by a man

in the audience, but he saw a woman on stage. he *said* he saw her. rather than stop playing, ask her to get off, ask his security or the police to take her off, he decked her. then he looked at her and kept playing.

"unwanted touching" = she bumped his butt with hers for about 1 second. like I said, he could have stopped playing and asked her to stop, called his security or police, left the stage, etc.

he decked her and kept right on going. he knew she was on stage, he knew he decked her, he knew she was a woman, and he kept right on going.

if he'd actually been afraid of her he wouldn't have just hauled off and hit her. he thought she was non-threatening enough that he could 'win' and that hitting her was a good way to handle it.

[MADem]

217. He certainly does in the TMZ video.

I'm not going to psychoanalyze this guy. I will say that had that woman not gotten on that stage and touched his behind none of this would have happened.

There was no security in the vicinity despite him having a rider for it--so the venue shares no small amount of responsibility for this incident.

If some guy jumped up on the stage and touched Taylor Swift's ass, would that be "OK?" If she clocked the guy, should she be arrested?

You keep insisting that he knew this and that, but he has the guts to go on camera and say he thought the women left the stage and the guy who was swearing at him was the person bothering him. He has no MOTIVE to beat a woman on stage. I believe him.

A sad event, that could have been avoided if the fans would just respect the space and artistry of the performers.

All this bullshit psychoanalysis about how "he thought he could win" is just bizarre and not evidence based. I get the impression you just don't like the guy's appearance, or something....

[ND-Dem]

222. he admitted he saw her. yeah, he said he "thought" she left and some guy got on stage.

because it makes him look better if people think he thought he was punching out a guy.

yes, it could have been avoided if the woman hadn't got on stage.

it could have also been avoided if he had just stopped playing, asked her to get off, called his supposedly non-existent security (since he supposed *had* security in the contract, maybe he could have checked that detail before getting on stage) or called the damn police if the scary lady wouldn't get off-stage.

he just hit her, looked at her, and kept playing like she was roadkill.

yeah, I'm saying this because I don't "like the guy's appearance," that's the ticket. that's what it's all about, yessiree.

so if I defended him like you are it would be because I hated women?

in fact, I don't like people who pick on those with less power - whether it's physical, political, monetary or other.

[MADem]

226. Your argument lacks logic. Where was the upside to him beating on a woman during a performance?

Has he done this regularly? Is it a feature of his act? No? Well, then, what's the point of doing it on this occasion?

Clearly he lashed out because he felt threatened. He felt threatened because he thought the women had left the stage and the person on the stage was the man who had been yelling at him earlier.

Your characterization of him as thinking she was roadkill is not supported by any evidence. You're saying that to create a scenario that works for you of "Big bad guy" and "poor innocent woman." But your scenario is your invention--it's not fact.

There will be a court appearance and this will be sorted out. This had nothing to do with "power" but it did have everything to do with someone being where they should not have been, with tragic results.

I don't like people who make assumptions about people based on their appearance, and convict them before they've had their day in court. So ... what ever.

[ND-Dem]

234. It was just a few seconds from the time he adjusted his mike to the time he decked her.

In that brief moment, he thought she'd left the stage and a guy got on and bumped his butt? I don't believe it.

And when he saw her after decking her, he saw a woman laid out -- like roadkill -- not a man. and he kept playing.

[MADem]

236. What was the upside to him going over and clocking this woman he supposedly recognized?

I'm sorry--his explanation makes sense. None of the "scumbag" and "douchebag" and all the other comments (which, I'll be honest, I think might be substitutes for some other sort of visceral dislike) I am reading here are compelling.

This is a man who has been a professional musician for DECADES. This is how he earns his daily bread. He is not in the habit of beating up women on stage as part of his act. There was a failure of security--he was not kept safe. He reacted. He immediately apologized and went into the lion's den (TMZ) and explained himself. I think this was a failure to provide appropriate services by the venue, and I think he was telling the truth as he understood it.

I don't think he thought he was hitting some fan--I think he thought the guy who was harassing him was the one on that stage.

In any event, I am going to give the brother the benefit of the doubt. I hope this gets sorted out to the satisfaction of everyone involved.

[Bonobo]

242. It's a proxy war.

He uses every opportunity he can to try to paint others as women-hating boy-men while trying to burnish his own image as a "real man".

People always try to push away and reject their shadow selves.

Anyway, I think you described the situation completely accurately. The musician said he takes medication to deal with anxiety. he has probably had a rough life.

The issue should really be put to rest with your exemplary pst.

[MADem]

244. Sadly, I think you're right about that!

You're either with 'em, or agin' em!!! And if you're agin' 'em, or you want to wait until the facts are all in, you're BAAAAAD!!!

I don't understand why a progressive community like DU won't let the man have his day in court. I guess it's more fun to get a conviction on a message board...?

[polly7]

273. After reading that he thought it was the man heckling him,

I agree completely. Knowingly laying out a woman on stage would be near suicide for almost any performer, I don't believe he was aware it was her.

He was busy concentrating on his guitar and it may very well have seemed to him that she'd left. We can judge all day, but none of us knows what he was able to see or not see in that half-second before he hit her.

[MADem]

298. I think there will be an equitable resolution to all this.

The musician took the first step by not hesitating to apologize, explain himself and express remorse. Given the inconsequential amount of his bond, I don't think he's being regarded by the justice system as a maniacal woman beater or anything of that nature. I can wait for the wheels of justice to grind, and I just can't get behind all this scumbag/douchebag name calling.

It's important to be fair, and I hope justice smiles on everyone involved. I also hope that security-cheatin' venue has good insurance!

[polly7]

315. I hope there will be too, and I agree.

And yes, the security could and should have stopped all this before it started.

[ND-Dem]

325. if there was no security, who escorted him off the stage?

[MADem]

331. Why do you think it was security?

You clearly don't know, otherwise you wouldn't be asking me. It could have been anyone.

You do know the only reason he was arrested is because the woman filed a police report, yes? It's not like "The Law" leapt to the stage and frog-marched the guy.

And given the size of the bond, which was in the realm of "court costs," he is not regarded as a vicious danger to society....

But hey, you can--but I will not-- convict him ahead of a trial!

[ND-Dem]

340. no, i don't know. unlike some here.

The "Because I Got High" rapper was performing when a woman got on stage and approached him, TMZ reports. As a video shows, Afroman was playing guitar and without warning he turned and socked her right in the head.

According to the gossip site, Afroman continued to play even after the woman hit the ground hard, bleeding and crying, until the house lights came on and the music stopped.

Then security reportedly helped the woman offstage, while police took Afroman away and handcuffed him outside the venue.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-juice/6473118/afroman-arrested-for-punching-fan-onstage-mid-show

I didn't know TMZ, often cited by you, was a 'gossip site' either. I didn't know what it was.

This is one report. Not necessarily accurate.

[MADem]

375. TMZ is ALWAYS accurate, and if you don't know who they are you are living in a cave.

They pride themselves on being absolutely, one hundred percent accurate. If they fuck up, they fess up--it's their stock in trade. You can count on their information being correct.

TMZ stands for "Thirty Mile Zone" and it was established to cover the Hollywood stars by "I'm a lawyer" Harvey Levin. They do a daily television show and they don't post things that aren't true--in fact, they pride themselves on reporting accurately. So, whatever. What--you don't like a "gossip" site reporting on entertainers? Did you want the ghost of Walter Cronkite to report on this shit? How about the PBS news hour?

Get real.

Before you dismiss, you know, you should do a little homework:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMZ

[ND-Dem]

421. My you're touchy. I'd never heard of it, let alone that it was a 'gossip' site.

Founded by an OJ Simpson and People's Court reporter and lawyer.

[MADem]

441. I'm not touchy--you're just not informed.

You're in a distinct minority if you don't know what TMZ is. And since you're actively participating in an "entertainment" thread, you should probably get to know "entertainment" media. It helps to know the sources.

Is The Smoking Gun a mystery to you as well?

If you want to comment (as you have on this thread) on "entertainment" and "oddball" news involving the justice system, that's another site you'd probably do well to get to know. You're not going to get this coverage on PBS News Hour.

[polly7]

332. Friends, fellow band members? Crew?

How do you know they were security?

[ND-Dem]

339. i don't. i'm asking.

[ND-Dem]

303. it was a second or two from the time he adjusted his mike to the time he knocked her down.

I don't see why he'd think in that second the woman got down and the man got up and bumped his butt.

not why, once he saw he'd clocked the woman, he just kept playing while she lay there.

[MADem]

308. He was playing the guitar and focusing on that--his eyes were not on the person behind him.

Again, you're trying to be him--you "don't see why" but that's you--you're not on that stage, with the lights in your eyes, playing. You are sitting behind a keyboard looking at some third person film of the incident. And you aren't seeing what I see.

Like I said, best that you're not a judge. I think he'll get a fair shake. His bond was tiny, this will be resolved without too much fuss. Hopefully the venue will be sanctioned for failing to keep their artists safe.

[ND-Dem]

314. It was exactly 13 seconds from moving the mike to knocking her out, and once he saw he

knocked her out he went right on playing.

He also knocked her head into the corner of the bandstand, which could have resulted in death, I'd imagine.

But as she was eventually able to get up and stumble away while he continued playing, I guess she was alright.

[uppityperson]

351. You would think it he cared, he would've checked on her after that punch.

The aftermath is telling. No, "oh my god I am so sorry are you ok?" or even "are you ok?" or even "huh?"

[MADem]

378. He said--and I believe him--that he thought both women left the stage.

He thought the person behind him was the man who had been hassling him throughout the show.

She appeared to be under the influence of alcohol. It probably mitigated her injuries.

[ND-Dem]

420. Did he continue to believe that once he knocked her to the floor? You're saying he didn't

notice it was a female he'd knocked to the ground?

[MADem]

443. Why don't you ask him? Get on his twitter feed and go for it! nt

[ND-Dem]

480. i asked you if you were making that claim.

[Vattel]

196. You missed my point if you think his being a musician rather than a basketball player is relevant.

I was trying to explain why it was a load of shit to suggest that what he did was an involuntary reflex.

As for your wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt, there is no doubt that he can benefit from. It was clearly an ugly assault. He is not even claiming that he believed, let alone reasonably believed, that he was in some danger. So no self-defense justification is possible here. And his reaction to seeing her laid out by his violence says it all. What a piece of work that guy is.

[MADem]

210. If someone comes up behind me and grabs my ass I'm going to react, too.

I don't understand why you think this would be a "load of shit?"

It wasn't clearly an ugly assault, and I'll wager a court will sort it out in a way that many here won't like. She went into his workspace and she touched him without knowledge or permission. He was surprised and reacted. It was unfortunate. There was no "intent" there and to try to make it as if he is some big mean black dude beating on a woman is just not supported by any of the evidence.

[Vattel]

216. You again miss my point. What I argued was a load of shit

was the suggestion that his hitting her was an involuntary reflex reaction.

I am amazed that you defend his obviously grossly disproportionate response to being "touched in his workspace."

[MADem]

219. If someone came up behind me and grabbed me I would HIT THEM.

So, I am not sure what point you're trying to make.

I would assume I was being assaulted and take steps to protect myself.

I believe what this guy said in the TMZ interview. I don't think he has a motive to lie, and I find it really WEIRD that people think this big bad black guy just hauls off and cracks women on stage for fun or something.

So....whatever.

[Vattel]

388. She didn't grab him. If someone bumps into me or even grabs me I do not haul off and hit them.

It is amazing to me that you do not see that he acted like a fucking asshole. You can't even admit that the claim that what he did was an involuntary reflex reaction is a load of shit. Strange.

[MADem]

391. It doesn't matter if she assaulted him with her hand or her ass or her shod foot--SHE

assaulted HIM FIRST.

We aren't talking about two people passing one another on a narrow stair. She went up on that stage and started rubbing up against that guy, he didn't expect it and he reacted.

There are plenty of assholes in this story, to include the security detail, and the first asshole on the scene wasn't the performer.

It's amazing to me that you do not see that she acted like a fucking asshole. You can't even admit to the claim that what she did was trespassing and assault.

So...talk about a load of shit...strange, indeed.

[Vattel]

408. She acted foolishly but not in a brutal, disgusting fashion.

[MADem]

445. She shouldn't have been on that stage at all, acting foolishly or otherwise.

She shares responsibility for what happened, because she should not have trespassed or touched that performer without permission. The venue management also shares responsibility, because they didn't protect the performer and they served that woman alcohol to the point where she was, apparently, drunk enough to do something stupid like clamber up on the stage and harass the 'talent.'

[uppityperson]

345. If your butt gets bumped at work, your reaction is to punch the person in the face? Where do you

work as I want to be very very careful if I am ever around you.

[Orrex]

347. What do you do when a dude rubs his ass on you?

[uppityperson]

348. Tell them not to, walk away, report it to the supervisor, have security help me

I don't punch him out.

[Orrex]

349. I believe you. Do you suppose that every woman would or should react that way?

[uppityperson]

350. I believe this guy acted inappropriately and should be prosecuted and suffer the consequences of his

assault.

I was responding to someone who said
" If someone comes up behind me and grabs my ass I'm going to react, too.....She went into his workspace and she touched him without knowledge or permission. He was surprised and reacted. It was unfortunate."

It was not "unfortunate" but assault. Did you notice his blatant disregard for her after punching her? Hardly an "unfortunate surprised reaction" aftermath.

[Orrex]

353. I agree with that as well--I made a similar point earlier in the thread.

I think that she acted inappropriately but that his response was still grossly disproportionate.

The previous thread that I referenced was about a woman who broke a man's nose after he (allegedly) grabbed her ass. I say "allegedly" because the court found insufficient evidence to charge him, though she was found guilty of assault.

The overwhelming sentiment in that thread was that her action was wholly justified, because his uninvited and unwelcome physical contact gave her free rein to respond with violence.

My contention was that it was appropriate to charge her with assault. I also felt that the man most likely did grab her as alleged, but the court disagreed.


I can't help seeing the parallels with the current situation, in which the target of unwelcome and uninvited physical contact also responds with violence.

[uppityperson]

356. I would charge her with assault also. The disproproportionate reaction and (if in her case as in

this) lack of concern for their actions lead me to charge with assault.

I can not give an answer that fits every case, but the reaction has to fit the situation (physics there, action reaction) and the aftermath has to fit also. If it were a dark alley, no one else around, I might fight my way out. On a bus with other people around, would be loud in confronting him.

"but she/he started it" works in some situations, doesn't work in others and it is possible for both people to be wrong, not meaning equal.

[Orrex]

358. Again, I agree.

In that previous discussion I tried seriously to pin people down and have them identify some general level of response that would be excessive, and across the board they declined to do so. After he grabbed her ass, in other words, she had carte blanche to respond however she saw fit, which in actual society is self-evidently absurd.

Of course there's no ironclad, universal answer, but you've stated it exactly: the reaction has to fit the situation.

Foreman in the current case went way beyond an appropriate response and IMO should undeniably face the consequences of it,

[ND-Dem]

458. probably only if the woman had 50 pounds on the man and could be reasonably sure of knocking

him to the ground. which is usually not the case in a match between a man and a woman.

usually it works out more the other way, as in this case.

[Orrex]

469. You realize that you're advocating in favor of sexual assault, of course.

Provided that the attacker is smaller than the victim.

That's fucked up.


Alternatively, you're arguing that a male victim of sexual assault should treat his attacker with gentle deference.

That's also fucked up.



You will now tell me that you aren't arguing either of those points, but you will be incorrect.

[ND-Dem]

476. huh?

[MADem]

495. Nicely done!

I finally figured out that poster was just "having a laugh" as a Ricky Gervais character used to say in an old sitcom. I decided to deny him any further feedback.

[MADem]

373. I don't work any longer--I enjoy a robust retirement. That said,

when I was at work, if someone came up behind me that I was not expecting to see there, I probably would clock 'em, particularly if I'd seen someone earlier shouting obscenities at me and I thought the person behind me was that person.

Let's flip the script--the guitar player is a woman. Some guy sneaks up on stage and makes contact with her buttocks--is she supposed to smile coquettishly and ignore the guy? Odds are she'd probably use the guitar as a weapon and deck the person.

Performers have a right to not be harassed or grabbed by drunks who trespass on the stage. It doesn't matter what their gender is, or their race, or their ethnicity. Making this about a mean black guy beating up on the poor white woman, which is what I'm seeing/smelling throughout this thread, is just wrong. She initiated the encounter, she had no business being where she was, the venue let the artist down by not keeping him safe, AND they overserved the drunken woman on stage. There's blame to go around here, but I sure as hell wouldn't start with the guy who was minding his own business, doing his job.

[uppityperson]

374. I don't care the gender or skin color of the people, the response here was overwhelmingly awful

It was too much for what happened and he showed no remorse once he saw who he hit.

If a man were to bump his butt on a female performer and she "use the guitar as a weapon and deck the person", she would need to be prosecuted for assault also.

When you were at work, if someone came up behind you you'd "clock 'em"? In which case you would be charged rightfully with assault.

I don't care the gender or skin color. That disproportionate of a response followed by that uncaring of an attitude? Assault.

[MADem]

377. Oh please--this is ALL about gender, and with some, it's all about ethnicity, too.

Big mean old man beats up "innocent" woman--that is how this thing is framed.

It's not "Fan trespasses on stage and frightens performer."

WTF ever happened to NO MEANS NO? Why is a little unwanted, unexpected, unanticipated "butt bumping" OK if it's a male artist being harassed? Would it be OK if the woman was the performer and the guitarist was the drunken, butt bumping fan? NO? Well, wrong is wrong.

Funny how it's "OK" for some people to react to unwanted gropes with violence, but for others, not so much--that's covered elsewhere in this thread, too.

If that woman didn't want trouble, she shouldn't have trespassed, and she shouldn't have put hands (or behind) on that artist--period.

[uppityperson]

379. Are you calling me a liar? He responded disproportionately and showed blatant disregard for her

after he assaulted her. It went way beyond "Fan trespasses on stage and frightens performer."

I don't care what their genders or skin color were. It was assault. She was wrong to come up on the stage and bump him, he was wrong in how he reacted and the disregard shown afterward. I would like you to point out to me where I once said it's "OK" for some people to react to unwanted gropes with violence, but for others, not so much.

It is not ok to do so, especially with this disproportionate a response and blatant disregard after.

"If that woman didn't want trouble, she shouldn't have trespassed, and she shouldn't have put hands (or behind) on that artist"??? And if that other woman didn't want trouble, she shouldn't have been walking down the street at night with a skirt on? Victim blaming too? Gotcha.

So many points you make, incredible, and I am not sure why you are getting off on calling me a liar.

[MADem]

385. I'm saying your opinion is not controlling.

If that fan was male, I doubt you'd be so huffy about how the performer behaved.

And yes, it WAS assault--the fan assaulted the performer, and got clocked hard for her trouble. Security should have been there to protect the performer, but they weren't.

So many points you make...incredible! And the only one screaming that whole you're a "liar" whine is YOU--you cry about it TWICE in your post. Are you looking to be aggrieved? Are you trying to "frame" me with accusations? Hmmmm. I see you.

The victim in this case is the first person who was assaulted--and that's not the trespassing fan. It's unfortunate for her that she met such a harsh response to her unwanted touching, but those are the risks one takes when people take liberties and infringe upon a person's personal integrity without permission.

There's a reason the performer's bond was so minimal--and I would wager that if the two don't come to an amicable resolution, and this goes to trial, the performer will charge the drunken fan with assault, and we'll be off to the races. I'd also bet that the performer will win in court. The fan might have better luck suing the VENUE for not preventing her from drinking so much and trespassing on the stage, but she's probably not going to get much if anything out of the performer.

[uppityperson]

386. OK, you are calling me a liar. Done with you

I have stated my opinion that I don't care about the genders or skin color and you continue to tell me I would. What else is that than saying I am lying?

Done with you.

[MADem]

389. One more time--I'm telling you that YOUR OPINION IS NOT CONTROLLING.

You don't get to dictate, here. Maybe that's your way IRL, but that shit doesn't fly with me. Stop trying to be a bully and frame me by putting words in my mouth. I see what you are doing and so does everyone else.

Glad you're done, makes my life all the easier!

[uppityperson]

390. I tell you what I believe, you tell me I don't believe that.

And you call me a bully for saying I believe what I believe whether you tell me I don't or not?

[MADem]

394. I thought you were done? Your opinion is not controlling. That's what I said.

You accused me repeatedly, and uncivilly, of calling you a liar, when I did no such thing.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth -- that IS bullying behavior and I will call you on it every time you do it.

[uppityperson]

399. Here are my and your words, copy pasted.

I have spoken of how I fell, you tell me I am wrong. I tell you I don't care about gender or skin color, you tell me you "doubt" me. I have stated MY opinion and you somehow conflate that with trying to control how you feel. My opinion is my opinion. I don't care about gender or skin color and I certainly have no desire to control you in any way.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From this subthread...

I don't care the gender or skin color of the people, the response here was overwhelmingly awful.

MADem Oh please--this is ALL about gender, and with some, it's all about ethnicity''

I don't care what their genders or skin color were. It was assault. She was wrong to come up on the stage and bump him, he was wrong in how he reacted and the disregard shown afterward.

MADem If that fan was male, I doubt you'd be so huffy about how the performer behaved.

I have stated my opinion that I don't care about the genders or skin color and you continue to tell me I would.

MADem I'm telling you that YOUR OPINION IS NOT CONTROLLING.
You don't get to dictate, here.
----------------

[MADem]

400. I'll say it again--your opinion is not controlling.

You don't get to dictate, and you don't get to accuse me of calling you a liar.

And you can "edit" and extract comments all you'd like. I really don't care.

So much for being "done" I guess...

[uppityperson]

401. I certainly have no desire to control you in any way.

How much more clearer can I get? Yes, I naively thought perhaps we were having one of those internet communication difficulties that perhaps could be cleared up, but I am seeing the larger picture now.

I certainly have no desire to control you in any way.

MADem I'll say it again--your opinion is not controlling.

I certainly have no desire to control you in any way.

MADem You don't get to dictate

I have stated MY opinion and you somehow conflate that with trying to control how you feel. My opinion is my opinion. I don't care about gender or skin color and I certainly have no desire to control you in any way.

I don't care the gender or skin color of the people, the response here was overwhelmingly awful.

MADem Oh please--this is ALL about gender, and with some, it's all about ethnicity''

I don't care what their genders or skin color were. It was assault. She was wrong to come up on the stage and bump him, he was wrong in how he reacted and the disregard shown afterward.

MADem If that fan was male, I doubt you'd be so huffy about how the performer behaved.

When you "doubt" what I repeatedly say, yes, I can tell you what you are accusing me of.

As for the larger picture, this does not appear to be an example of internet communication problems but something else.

[MADem]

404. I think you do.

Otherwise, you would have meant what you said when you claimed you were done, instead of continually engaging me and berating me.

Your opinion is not controlling.

[uppityperson]

409. And there you go again. Telling me I don't mean what I say I mean.

not believing when I said I am naively trying to clear up a communication problem.

You have repeatedly said you don't believe me, that my statements of what I believe are false.

Definitions
http://dictionary.reference.com/

Liar --a person who tells lies

Lie --a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

You have repeatedly said my opinion "is not controlling" in response to me saying I am not trying to control you and now you say I am trying to "control" you.



Why do you "continually engage me and berate me"? Why do you attempt to control me, to tell me and prove someone that I am telling falsehoods when I share my opinions and beliefs?

[MADem]

444. Hey--you have a nice day, now!

You said you were "done," several posts back, in fact-- but clearly, that means something else to you than it does to me.

Here, let me try it--I'm done talking to you on this thread. You're looking for a fight and I'm not going to indulge you.

Fond farewells, and all that--see you around the board.

[ND-Dem]

459. the performer wasn't physically harmed by any 'assault'. the fan was.

[MADem]

464. Thank you for that opinion, Doctor Freud!

You do know that the mind and the body are interconnected? If he felt his security was compromised, there are physical manifestations that accompany that.

When people are frightened sufficiently and don't feel in control of their own safety and security, they call the physical manifestations of the after-effects of those events post traumatic stress. It's not just for warriors, you know. Children who live in insecure environments, people who are under threat because they live with an abuser or in a sketchy neighborhood, people who feel unsafe in their job, all sorts of people can manifest this condition. And it does have a physical element. The guy wasn't medicated for anxiety for no reason, I'm sure.

[ND-Dem]

479. yes, the harm to his precious psyche is every bit as real as punching someone so hard their

head slams into a corner of a stage and they eventually get up bloody according to published accounts.

poor liddle guy he was scared of the scary lady

[MADem]

481. There's no sense in continuing this back-n-forth.

You have your opinion and I have mine. The difference is that I won't resort to denigrating language or character assassination to make a point.

You have a swell day, now!

[ND-Dem]

482. you haven't used character assassination or denigrating language? the person who

pretty much accused me of attacking afroman because I was racist?

or stuff like:

464. Thank you for that opinion, Doctor Freud! (sarcasm icon)

the fan was drunk, she sexually assaulted the singer, she's not likely to get much money out of him, blah blah blah.

you've been all over this thread with it.

[MADem]

483. You have one of those REAL nice days, now!

Go do your thing with someone else!

[Vattel]

413. +1000

[Manifestor_of_Light]

26. "Excepting full responsibility"?

The word is "accept", not "except". Dude needs to work on his grammar. Or his publicist does.

[lame54]

33. unless that's exactly what he meant

[MADem]

213. Gee, maybe "dude" didn't have the benefit of a private education, or even one in a good school

district....maybe he couldn't afford college either

He got out in front of the story and didn't try to run from it.

[Iggo]

27. Fuck your apologies, Joseph. Do your time.

("...excepting..." )

[jberryhill]

32. You allow trespassers to come up behind you and touch you without your consent?

Really?

[Iggo]

34. If someone bumps into me from behind, I don't haul off and smack them, if that's what you mean.

[jberryhill]

39. Performers are frequently attacked onstage

Elsewhere in this thread, I have posted videos of fan-performer interactions where "fans" have attacked the performers.

Here's a simple rule to live by:

"Don't touch people without their consent, and certainly when they don't see you coming."

Given the usual course of what happens when people trespass onto a concert stage, IMHO it is perfectly reasonable of him not to wait around to find out who it is or what they are up to.

Come up behind me and commit battery on me when I am giving a talk or otherwise working, and you do so at your own risk.

It's an obvious battery on her part, and yet no arrest of her. I wonder why?

[Iggo]

43. If you come up from behind me and bump into me and I turn around and clock you, I'm going to jail...

...whether you had a right to be there or not.

[jberryhill]

48. As if no hiphop or rap performer has ever been violently attacked

Context matters here.

Someone with unknown intent came up behind him and touched him when he was performing.

Go try that with someone engaging in any other skilled occupation in a space where other people are not authorized to be. Go wander onto a construction site and see how that works out for you.

Given the context of how these things frequently go down, it was perfectly reasonable in his state of surprise to believe the person committing battery against him was ill-intended.

She committed a crime, but no charge because she is white.

Keith Richards can defend himself onstage, as can Maynard, and no charges.

But a black man and a white woman in Biloxi, Mississippi? Yeah, it's pretty obvious why she wasn't charged with anything.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

493. Frequently attacked. Those words don't mean what you think they mean.

A fan going up on stage is not an attack. The vast majority of times the incident is non violent and results in the fan being removed without incident. The vast majority of shows result in no fans jumping on stage uninvited.

fre·quent·ly
ˈfrēkwən(t)lē/
adverb
regularly or habitually; often.
"they go abroad frequently"
synonyms: regularly, often, very often, all the time, habitually, customarily, routinely; many times, a lot, many a time, lots of times, again and again, time and again, over and over again, repeatedly, recurrently, continually, oftentimes; literaryoft, ofttimes
Translate frequently to
Use over time for: frequently

at·tack
əˈtak/
verb
past tense: attacked; past participle: attacked
take aggressive action against (a place or enemy forces) with weapons or armed force, typically in a battle or war.

[Drahthaardogs]

66. She did not "bump", she was grinding her ass into him...

He could have shoved her off though instead of throwing a haymaker.

[Iggo]

94. Ass-grinding-against still doesn't warrant getting slugged.

She shouldn't have been there. She shouldn't have touched him without his permission. But that doesn't mean he gets to sock her, no matter what the punishment fetishists say.

[jberryhill]

96. I will bear this in mind should you ever be surprised

...by someone who doesn't want you grinding your ass against them while they are working.

[Iggo]

97. You do that.

[Drahthaardogs]

104. Oh yeah, he way overreacted. He could have just pushed her away

but she DID grind her ass into him, and technically she did sexually violate him. It was no "bump". It was a deliberate ass grind and kind of sexual too.

[Iggo]

121. None of that excuses his hitting her.

Two people screwed up. One of them screwed up violently.

[ND-Dem]

109. You typically beat people who touch you without asking permission first? really?

[Orrex]

317. Are you aware that a previous discussion on DU endorsed exactly that practice?

As I noted elsewhere in this thread.

I would be interested to hear your assessment of the case that yielded the earlier discussion.

[ND-Dem]

326. i don't think i participated in that one. if it's one about women being allowed to hit men for

no reason, my feeling are the same as in this case.

[Orrex]

329. Thank you. That's my feeling as well. (nt)

[MADem]

302. A bit melodramatic--and mocking of someone without benefit of a good education, that comment.

Grammar/spelling-nazi-ing on a guy who admits he was a poor student and who worked as a baggage handler before he was able to support himself as a musician is not a very progressive attitude.

He hasn't done any "time" nor is he likely to do any. He paid a $330 bond--suggesting that the authorities don't regard him as a danger or a flight risk.

[jberryhill]

29. Peformers are often attacked on stage

This woman appears to have come up from behind him without him knowing she was there, and then started grinding against him without his consent, which is a battery.

Here's a "fan" attacking Justin Bieber:

A "fan" attacking Miley Cyrus:

A "fan" attacking Taylor Swift:

Beyonce was pulled right off the damned stage:

I'm surprised she wasn't arrested. But, hey, she's white, so...


Someone came up from behind him, committed battery, and it looks like he wasn't waiting around to find out what the intentions of this trespasser were.

[shanti]

35. that's what security is for

somebody dropped the ball, but sucker punching the woman was not the answer!

[jberryhill]

40. There was no security

The venue failed in their contractual obligation.

Regardless of that fact, he is perfectly justified in responding to a battery by not waiting around to find out what this person who came up from behind and touched him was up to.

Concert performers are not there to provide a "please touch museum", and it is never okay to touch someone without their consent.

[jberryhill]

73. Take a look at the other videos in this thread

Apparently this sort of thing is okay if you are a white performer, or a black performer with white security guards. In the Nicki Minaj video, security kicks the crap out of some guy who just wanted to talk.

[ND-Dem]

130. ...

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22dances+with+fan%22

[opiate69]

134. ...

[ND-Dem]

178. Yeah, that's a very similar case to this one. In one, girl with plastic glass in hand,

already dancing on stage, bumps male musician with her butt and he immediately decks her.

In another, man with gun in his hand rushes stage, kills musician, and continues firing 15 times, then is killed by policeman.

[opiate69]

179. If you don't think that incident I posted changed forever the way performers view "their stage"...

then you've obviously never been privileged enough to call a stage your workplace.

[ND-Dem]

190. what year was that incident?

[opiate69]

192. Prior to the current year....it's kinda how "changes" work....

Incident - then new paradigm.

[ND-Dem]

208. what year, exactly? since you say it started a new paradigm.

[nomorenomore08]

541. December 2004.

For the record, I still think Afroman overreacted, but I don't blame performers for being more vigilant in general now.

[tblue37]

85. I immediately thought of Monica Seles--who was STABBED by someone

who rushed her on the tennis court.

I think most performers are all too aware that some people, especially when amped up and overwrought by mob dynamics, can be unbalanced--or just so drunk or high that their behavior is unpredictable and potentially dangerous, or even deadly.

[jberryhill]

95. No, performers should wait around to figure out what the person's intentions are

Because, you know, nobody has ever attacked a performer or sports figure while they were doing their job.

[opiate69]

36. Here's another...

And I don't think Maynard was ever charged with anything here.
https://m.

And here, Maynard talks about the incident.
https://m.

[jberryhill]

41. Maynard is not a scary black man

[opiate69]

42. Bingo.

[hunter]

69. Yep.

Exactly.

[TransitJohn]

177. Wow, that music is awful!

[opiate69]

183. Hands down, the absolute best band I've ever seen live...

and with 25+ years of gigging under my belt, I've seen thousands....

[TransitJohn]

229. It sounds pretty boring

Straightforward rock. Not much playfulness with melody or time signature. Kind of like generic sterile shitty new country. But your mileage may vary.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

255. I watched the vid w/o sound, so I can't comment on this band's music, however,

I want to say that I agree with you 100% about new "country." I happen to love a lot of old country music. Hank Williams, Jr. vs. Hank Williams, Sr. sums it up for me.

[cleanhippie]

327. "Straightforward rock. Not much playfulness with melody or time signature."

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Tool uses some of the most complicated time signatures and tempo arrangements in the industry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schism_%28song%29#Time_signature

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateralus#Composition_and_content

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jambi_%28Tool_song%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stoned

[TransitJohn]

436. It's boring

I did say your mileage may vary. What don't you get about that? They're not Zappa. Hell, they're not even Voivod, which isn't saying much. It sounds like Cowboy Troy.

[cleanhippie]

501. You said "Straightforward rock. Not much playfulness with melody or time signature."

A claim that is demonstrably wrong.

Don't like Tool? No problem, not everyone gets all art, but you made a completely false claim. I just wanted to clear that up.

[TransitJohn]

525. If you say so.

[nomorenomore08]

542. Honestly, their stuff is only "complex" relative to most 3-chord mainstream rock.

That said, I do think some of it still holds up. I have 'Opiate' on vinyl and pull it out occasionally.

[treestar]

503. OMG! I love the way he kept singing

all through the incident!

[nomorenomore08]

540. And none of those performers actually punched the person out, from what I could see.

[chrisa]

31. "And now I'm gonna go to jail, and I know why!"

[MADem]

249. Unlikely. He bonded out for the grand sum of three hundred and thirty dollars.

He was arrested because the woman filed a police report, not because the police charged in and dragged him away.

This will go to court, and it will be sorted out--probably without all the aspersions-casting and name-calling we're seeing here.

[madville]

37. Overreaction for sure

They should charge them both then what usually happens is both parties agree to not pursue charges against each other.

It's misdemeanor assault either way, he'll probably do a little community service or just pay a fine. I saw a longer version where she was stumbling around drunk behind him for quite some time, where was security at?

[MADem]

252. I will bet that's what is going to happen if there isn't some sort of agreement early on.

He was only arrested because she filed a police report. He could turn around and do the same--and I'd bet if this isn't resolved amicably, charges dropped all round, that is what will happen.

He bonded out for 330 bucks--so we're not talking any kind of perp walk situation, here. The venue will probably have to pay any damages if it comes to that--they fell down on the job, and failed to provide the talent with adequate security.

[winstars]

38. Keith Richards helped a fan off stage once:

[jberryhill]

46. No problem, he's white... no charge

[VanillaRhapsody]

57. the most amazing moment on stage ever!

I have shown that clip so many times to friends.....I thought of it as soon as I saw this...Keith clocked him with the guitar and went right back to business...

[ND-Dem]

131. if he 'clocked' him, why was the guy able to keep running? why didn't he fall to the ground

like the woman did, and stay on the ground?

[VanillaRhapsody]

132. Oh good grief!

clocked doesn't mean knocked out necessarily. But why stand in the way of a good quibble huh?

[ND-Dem]

171. I consider knocking someone out and to the ground as something different from whatever

keith did, which as far as I could tell did no damage to the fan whatsoever.

I also consider hitting a woman you have at least 50 pounds on different from hitting a man who's as skinny as you are. Not that keith even hit that guy.

[Solomon]

264. of course what he did was different:

He's white! He actually used a deadly weapon, his guitar, but to you a slap from a black man is far worse.

[ND-Dem]

300. right. it's because he's black, not because he knocked someone smaller out and to the ground,

someone who hadn't harmed him.

as opposed to KR, who didn't knock anyone out or to the ground.

[VanillaRhapsody]

419. Where is the poster saying that what Keith did here is equivalent in outcome?

[winstars]

418. Keith talking about this incident many years later, "I watched my mans back!!!"

[Bonx]

60. That's almost exactly the same as this

in some crazy land.

[ND-Dem]

128. Funny that the male fan wasn't knocked to the ground unconscious like the woman this guy

decked with his fist.

[nomorenomore08]

543. Doesn't seem like he clobbered the guy hard enough to actually injure him.

Regardless, that was over 30 years ago, so I'd say it has limited relevance to an incident in 2015.

[glasshouses]

52. What the fuck , low life scum hitting women

[stone space]

53. Assholes.

Fans are defending his actions

[glasshouses]

59. Not just fans... read the thread

Some of these posts in this thread are disgusting

[trumad]

78. of course they are...

DU is loaded with MRA douchebags. Tough guys behind a keyboard.

[snooper2]

288. and loaded with one sided opinions, if some ugly white dude started grinding against Rhianna

and she turned around and smacked the fuck out of him...


Most going nuts in this thread would be saying- YOU GO GIRL! Men think they can do whatever they want to a woman! He deserved getting slapped across the face and kicked off the stage!

WOMAN POWER!!!

But alas, people have to prove their online prowess....I'm better defender of women than you! I'm super awesome!

[trumad]

289. I'm not sure why MRA douchebags are so fucked up...

The angst they feel regarding women is a remarkable mental illness. Did the illness manifest itself during breastfeeding ? Did Jenny in elementary school turn down that first kiss or laugh at the very attempt.

Do they still...at 30 years of age--- live at home and does Mom take care of their every need? Does Mom still cut the crust off the white bread for their PB&Js?

Do they sleep in footed PJs?

I kind of feel sorry for these poor demented souls....sad sad little men hating on teh women.

Of course you agree...correct?

[snooper2]

292. The people you are trying to impress here may get offended by your continual use of "douche"

Is there a website out there where MRA vs. SJW can be a constant battle? That may be a fun place for you to post LOL

[trumad]

294. No---there's plenty to go after here.

I love fucking with the MRA's.... you know they run in packs---little Hyenas---sick diseased scavengers, pathetic little men.

BTW: Who am I trying to impress? Women? I don't need to try and impress them---I already do.

See that's the thing---poor little MRA dudes, with all their fake machismo, staring in the mirror, asking over and over why teh womens aren't flocking to their errrr greatness, having no fucking clue that women can smell their Misogynist stench a mile away.

[snooper2]

299. you live in a weird world LOL

do you have a cape?

I got my daughter one like this she went to Comic-Con in...she was a ballerina princess bat

[trumad]

301. Why do I need a cape? I'm not rescuing anyone.

Why are you getting on my case for fucking with MRA knuckleheads?

Oh---wait a minute---oh shit....

[snooper2]

307. Oh it is just fun pointing out hypocrisy

See, reverse the roles and

DAMN what happens LOL... Of course you really didn't have to much to say in this thread-


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022567780

[Gore1FL]

398. I am not sure that falsely accusing people of being MRA is the same as

"fucking with MRA knuckleheads."

[sibelian]

376. Message deleted by DU the Administrators

[trumad]

435. OK post the links with me assaulting my wife

And hitting my kid. Let's do it...

You want to play...let's play.

[sibelian]

442. Deleted them, have you?

[trumad]

485. Nothing to delete...

Just called you out on a fucking lie.

[trumad]

513. still waiting for the links.

You made an accusation, I asked you to provide proof...you have not because you cant....so it clearly proves you're a liar.

[trumad]

520. still waiting for the linkso liar

You hiding?

[taterguy]

529. Are you gonna post links?

Or did you make that up?

[trumad]

530. He pulled it out of his ass...

And he's a fucking coward in hiding.

[taterguy]

531. For once we can agree on something

I'm gonna go check to see if hell has frozen over.

[trumad]

532. LOL

Yep I did a double take when I read your post.

Much appreciated.

I asked Admin to delete it and they don't seem to give a shit.

[taterguy]

560. Basic decency trumps whatever disagreements we've had in the past

And accusing someone of domestic violence without any evidence to support the claim is beyond the pale.

[CANDO]

145. And making it about race to boot!

I'm sick up to my eyeballs with people hiding behind race in every way possible these days. And here they come in 3.2.1....now I'm a racist for just making that point. It was just a few days ago that there was an entire racial conspiracy surrounding the Little League team from Chicago. There are legit racial things to concern ourselves with, but there also needs to be some discretion and awareness that EVERY MF'ing situation doesn't have to be made out to be about race.

[840high]

174. Me2

[jberryhill]

54. He should be white, like Pitbull

Pitbull clocks onstage fan:

[thucythucy]

55. So how did he address this?

At the press event I mean.

Meanwhile, here's a different reaction to happy fans on-stage:

[stone space]

64. Hey, that was in my home town!

Hello, Dubuque!

[ND-Dem]

181. dylan should have had his security deck them. they obviously wanted to do him harm.

[thucythucy]

269. He should have known that very instant...

Seriously though, I'm amazed at how laid back he is about all this.

Have you seen "No Direction Home"? There's a scene, during the '66 tour in England, where the venue manager tells him that someone has called in saying he's bringing a gun to the show and is planning to kill Dylan on stage. Dylan's response is, "I don't want to know about that. If I'm gonna get shot, I don't wanna know about it ahead of time." Which makes sense. It's not like he can cancel a show every time some crank calls in with a threat.

Here's another act that seems to have no problems with folks on stage:

Of course, Sleater Kinney has always been into community. So glad to see them back together after all these years.

Best wishes.

[trumad]

63. Some of the posters in this thread obviously love it...

Oh she deserved it.... fuck that.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

65. Yep. Must like seeing a woman get what "she deserved"

The guy has already said he knew there were drunk women on the stage. He also apologized and is enrolling in anger management class.

But let's go with "he thought he was being pick pocketed"

[trumad]

70. MRA brigade.

[jberryhill]

74. Lol, yeah

Because a woman has the right to come up from behind anybody and grind her ass into that person.

Does that right of sexual assault work both ways?

[trumad]

76. You don't have a guilty conscious do you?

What makes you think I was talking about you?

Yeah....

[jberryhill]

79. How frequently DO you rub your ass against strangers without their consent?

You claimed that anyone defending his response, in a context where entertainers regularly face the hazard of on-stage assault in venues with poor security, was indicative of whatever the "MRA brigade" means.

I'm trying to understand the principle which allows ANYONE to come up behind a stranger and start rubbing their ass against them.

If you want to cast this as some sort of gender thing, then why does Nicki Minaj have a crew who kicks the living shit out of a guy who walks up and just wants to talk:

He walks up, starts talking, gets pummeled by a bunch of guys, and the headline is "Nicki Minaj attacked".

But, oh, I forgot, he's a black guy and she's a white woman, so he should be elated that she chose to rub her ass on him without his consent while he's trying to play a guitar solo.

[trumad]

81. uh huh...

You know some men get a woody when they see a man crush a woman upside of the head. I call those men sick little fuckers with Mommy issues.

[jberryhill]

83. They most certainly would be sick little fuckers

...as would anyone condoning sexual assault, which is what this was.

[trumad]

86. you know some men play games when disguising their love

For hurting women.

[jberryhill]

88. Okay, so...

Afroman was disguising his love for hurting women by having her come up from behind him and rub her ass on him?

I have no idea how you get to the point that this was some game he was playing here, but enjoy the rest of your conversation.

[trumad]

90. ok...I've had fun with you...

Time to move on....

[reddread]

154. after you rubbed your ass on him?

clearly, he would be within what he thinks is right to give you
a punch in the face for a butt graze.

[840high]

175. Yeah - make it all about race.

[Bobbie Jo]

227. Oh brother.

Yeah, you don't like that one bit, do you.

[840high]

241. Why should I? It's stupid.

He punched her - I don't care if he is white, green, orange - it was wrong.

[Bobbie Jo]

286. Actually

That was a rhetorical observation.

[Widget2000]

259. You can't possibly be this obtuse.

Every fuckin' DAY some asshole rubs his ass up against me. Or her ass. Or THEIR asses. It's called a subway. Or a club. Just because someone has invaded my personal space, out of horniness, drunkenness, or lack of space, does not mean I have unfettered reason to deck them out. If I register annoyance or dismay, and directly asked to be left alone, and THEN that person continued to rub up against me, then yes, a smack in the head is warranted.

And look, the other videos are other performers and the vibe is different. A Stones concert is expected to get rowdy, as is a Tool concert. And Nicki Minaj is no stranger to aggressive energy. But Afroman decking her like that, during a soulful, mellow piece...just isn't right in so many ways.

You can try to make this about gender double standards until the cows come home, but you're just making yourself look ridiculous.

[polly7]

267. He wasn't in a crowd on a subway. Why would he be expecting to get his ass rubbed just

doing his job?

MUCH different.

I read here he thought the woman had left the stage and that it was the man he thought was heckling him, that changes things a bit too.

[trumad]

277. Don't get worked up with the MRA brigade.

They look for every type of reason to excuse this type of behavior. The sexual assault meme this one is spouting is so stupid that I refuse to even debate it.

What you will notice in threads like these are the same 3 to 4 MRA tough guys who always....and I mean always show their anti-woman colors.

[tblue37]

100. I am a woman and a committed feminist. But I still think that performers have good reasons

to be scared when people jump up on stage, since so often they do attack the performer. I just don't think we can know for sure whether this guy was just being a violent a**hole or was reacting almost reflexively to an underlying awareness that he is exposed to potential attack up there.

The total absence of security shocks me.

[trumad]

103. That's fine...

But if you can't see the underling tone in some of these posts then you haven't been paying attention.

[ND-Dem]

193. If he was so scared, why didn't he have security? Not to mention that the woman was on

stage, dancing with her drink, some minutes before he hit her -- and he saw her there.

Why didn't he stop playing and tell her to get off stage if he was so scared of the woman he had at least 50 pounds on?

Why didn't he leave the stage and call the police?

Nah, he just decked her, looked at her, and kept playing.

[tblue37]

276. Even if he knew she was there before, he might not have known

in that moment that she was the one behind him and touching him.

In fact, being aware that some people were on the stage already could have set him on edge (perhaps even without his being aware that he was on edge) and made him hypersensitive to the possibility that someone else could come on stage and rush him.

[nomorenomore08]

545. I'm more concerned with his reaction immediately after decking her.

If he'd reacted with shock and horror, then fine. But he seemed totally nonchalant about it.

[Widget2000]

258. ...

[ND-Dem]

184. Because pickpockets always do their dirty work in front of audiences with drink glasses in hand.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

243. That's the best time to pick pockets -

you know when you're on a stage in front of hundreds of people, all with cameras and a big spot light shining down on you.

I wonder if he had a concealed weapons permit and shot her dead in 'self defense' the people lacking commonsense on this thread would be okay with that.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

256. Sadly, yes, I think most of them would be OK with that. Notice the same rote

legalese about her "trespass and battery" upon him. How she was asking for it, basically and he had every right to give it to her.

[MADem]

205. He was also being harassed by a guy in the same general vicinity.

He thought the two women had left the stage and he thought he was clocking the guy.

So I guess you'd be just as angry if a woman artist hit some guy who came up on stage and grinded on her, then?

This is not an "MRA" issue and it's not a "poor woman/mean man" thing either. It's a situation where a fan overreached and an artist overreacted, with unfortunate consequences. That artist isn't in the business of beating women on stage, he's not "happy" about this situation, and he would have preferred it not happen.

No one deserves to be assaulted in a sexual way against their will/without their knowledge--even a guy with a guitar.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

245. I'm not even sure she even touched him

let alone "grinded".

[MADem]

247. From the Vine loop it looks as if she did. nt

[Boudica the Lyoness]

250. Yeah, but are we talking bumped him or grinded?

She wasn't a threat to him either way.

The way he looked down at her on the ground, after he hit her, then just continued to play, really bothered me.

[MADem]

251. It doesn't really matter.

If a person is intent upon a project, a task, a chore, a job -- as that musician clearly was, he was very intent upon playing that guitar, that's where all his focus was--and someone bumps, grinds, grabs, pokes or prods them unexpectedly, it is not surprising that they might be startled and react in a protective fashion.

And it also doesn't matter if the fan was a threat--the question isn't what she was, but how she was PERCEIVED.

None of knows this guy. That said, we can infer a few things from his behaviors. First, he immediately apologized and he didn't run away from the controversy. He went to TMZ, laid out his apology, made his explanation, and submitted himself to their interrogation-- and they don't coddle anyone. Second, he was arrested only after a police report was filed, and he bonded out quickly for three hundred and thirty bucks (not a high bond at all). There will be no frog marching and clanging jail cell doors, here.

I think this was an unfortunate incident and nothing more. I don't think the guy is a woman-hater, I don't think he intended to deck a woman, and I also don't think the woman intended him harm. I do think the man who was heckling the musician caused him some fear and anxiety, though, and that, and the lack of adequate security at the venue (despite his rider requesting same), contributed to this unfortunate event.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

335. The punch could have ended up being a fatal one.

He didn't immediately apologize. I watched the video. He continued to play. He only started to squirm once he was arrested.

From what I saw, he saw the woman was on the stage before he hit her. I think he hit her because she was a woman. Notice he didn't hit the man who got on the stage. How did he know that the man wasn't intending him harm for hitting a woman?

I don't think this man thought he was in danger. He wasn't in danger. He hit her because he was pissed off. When Zimmerman was getting his head smashed into the pavement, he used self-defense and so did Wilson when he shot Brown inside his police car.

If the musician had a gun at that moment would you be okay with him using his gun as self-defense to stop the threat?

[MADem]

454. Yes... and the woman "could have" pulled out a knife and stabbed the artist.

Or she could have pulled out a gun and shot him. Or her glass might have been filled with acid, and she "could have" thrown it in his face.

But she didn't.

And she didn't die either, so no need to get all dramatic about something that did not happen.

She left the venue, and filed a police report. He was arrested, bonded out for a small fee, and they'll meet in court--if he doesn't countercharge her, or they don't find a way to settle this extrajudicially.

He has talked about this--she has not. We know what he was thinking, he went on TMZ and explained himself. I don't think he's lying.

But how fascinating that you--your words, now ...think he hit her because she was a woman....He hit her because he was pissed off.

Please. He was on stage, doing his show. He not only explained himself, he apologized for his part in the incident.

I don't have a problem letting the justice system sort this out--without the biased interventions of DU "judges" who convict without evidence, just because they don't like the cut of a person's jib.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

468. He saw her - noted her sex - and then he hit her.

He did not hit the man who got on the stage. He didn't hit the man because the man was a big man.

I'm all for self defense, but he didn't need to defend himself from her. He could have stopped playing and told her to get off the stage. Like you said, it was his show.

Don't judge me by saying I don't like the 'cut of his jib'. I'm not sure I know what that even means. I have never heard of Afroman before I saw this. I have no idea if I'd like his music or even what kind of music he plays. All I know are the facts. He hit a woman hard enough that it could have killed her. (Did you see the edge of the platform that her head struck)? He returned to playing and didn't give a shit about her condition. He apologized after he was arrested because he's worried about his career/bank account taking a hit.

Don't try to accuse me of not liking him for some reason, that's just plain silly - I DON'T KNOW HIM. And don't you dare accuse me of being dramatic when a small woman gets knocked for six by a bigger man. We are not discussing her 'attack' on him. We are discussing the fact he hit her hard. You are all for him stopping her. I want to know if it would have been okay for him to use a gun to stop her - after all, according to you, he was frightened for his life. She could have had acid in that glass after all - right?

Now explain why I don't like his jib. I want to know what the fuck you are accusing me of.

[MADem]

470. Wow. Facts don't matter at all to you, I guess?

He made a statement about the incident, and he said the exact OPPOSITE of what you're claiming. He did NOT see her, he thought she and her friend had left the stage, he thought she was a male who had been harassing him throughout his performance. That is what he said. Those were the thoughts he verbally expressed, on video, for all to see.

I believe him, not you. Why? Because he came right out and apologized and explained himself. He wasted no time in doing this.

If you don't know him--as you just admitted--then you might want to just stop telling people what he did and didn't do, and what he did and didn't see. It does make one wonder why you're characterizing him so robustly, when you don't even know him, after all...

Gee, you're saying he's worried about his career, and others here are calling him a one hit wonder loser who plays county fairs. I guess he has no right to be concerned for his own personal safety?

[ronnie624]

472. I think you may have outdone yourself on this thread.

You're posts here, are among the most ridiculous I've ever seen.

[MADem]

473. Names will never hurt me!

Feel like you've accomplished something with that little snipe?



I won't even make fun of the "you're" -- I'm not in the habit of kicking people when they're down.

[ronnie624]

475. It's late, I'm bored

and your post are stupid, as usual. I couldn't resist.

I'll leave my mistake, so people can readily see what you're 'not' making fun of.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

490. "He came right out and apologized"

Holy fucking shit. Is this some kind of Poe exercise?

In case you didn't notice, after he decked the woman, he shrugged his shoulders like he was some bad-ass who just knocked out his opponent and kept on playing.

The apology only came AFTER he was arrested and the the shit hit the fan. He came right "out" and apologized. After he bonded out.

[MADem]

494. For $330. Which is a rather low bond.

Since you're so into the "tale of the tape" and can read what a person is feeling and thinking with such tell-tale accuracy, why don't you try reviewing the tape where he's talking--that will tell you all you need to know. If that's not enough, review his twitter feed.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

496. Yeah. I saw that.

Where he apologized and then didn't apologize and then admitted he knew tho women were on stage with him and then claimed he, errr ahhhh, thought it was a heckler on stage behind him.

That tape?

He's full of shit.

[MADem]

497. Your opinion is noted.

I don't agree with your assessment.

The courts will decide if he's "full of shit" or if those who claim to know him are.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

498. No, you listen here, bub. I'm the decider!!!!

I still like you even though you are wrong.

It's amazing what we will fight over on du. When my dog was a puppy we had two neighbors who also had similar age puppies. They had plenty of toys to play with but, one day, I looked out in the yard and they were fighting over the one remaining expensive booties I purchased for my precious pup's paws. A triangle of three puppies tugging on what was left of a 4 inch square of cloth and leather. Where the other three booties went is a mystery for the ages.

Du is like that sometimes.

[MADem]

499. Wish I'd known you back then! If you'd ever found those booties, I had feet for them!

I had a three legged border collie I saved from a UK farmer's knife! He was a good boy, he just couldn't herd any more after having a leg crushed on the farm...so I took him off the guy's hands! If the booties were too small for him, I also had a two legged Papillon that had been hit by a car and had one of those wheelchair things. I took him off a drunkard's hands before he got the ax. He could have used two of those booties!

Those were good dogs, I miss 'em!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

517. Aww. There's nothing sweeter than a three legged dog or dog in a wheelchair.

They don't care. They're just happy to be with their human pack.

As long as my girl is happy and not in pain, I will carry her up and down three flights of stairs in our walk-up if it ever comes to that.

[MADem]

518. That's why I kept those dogs--no pain, they just had to adapt and they did fine at it.

Also the two legged dog in the wheelchair had a three legged brother (not the other three legged dog) so it was Three Dogs, Eight Legs at the farm!

I just couldn't feel right if I'd let them be put down. They had no trouble running all over hell, either.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

515. The man's living is on the line!!!

He is going to say whatever it takes to make people like you feel warm and fuzzy.

Why do you think the man is apologetic when he keeps playing when his victim is on the ground? I lol'd when you said he WASTED NO TIME IN APOLOGIZING!!! I don't need to know him in order to SEE what he DID.

Okay, now to the real nitty gritty of what you are doing - it's what I thought - you are trying to say I'm a racist because I'm not kissing this man's arse and saying it's okay for him to assault women. I'll tell you what a racist I am; over 40 years ago, when things were a lot different in the US, I walked up the aisle with a black man. To be clear; I married a black man over 40 years ago. Our son is 40 + years old now.

When you are losing an argument, be-careful who you are calling a racist.

[tblue37]

99. It isn't that people "love" that she got hit, but that some of us think that

it is possible that he--and perhaps some others who perform in public--might have a hair trigger reaction because of how often public performers do get attacked and genuinely endangered--or even injured--by people who rush them during a performance.

I have no idea whether he was just mad and hit her because of that, or whether it was a rapid, reflexive response because of being always aware that performers can be attacked and often have been. I just think that such a self-protective response could be a possible explanation for the punch.

It is appalling that a venue neglected to provide basic stage security for a performer, considering how aggressive and violent some people get these days at such performances.

[polly7]

107. I agree with you.

He appeared startled to me. I feel bad for both of them, she did something really stupid and grinding her ass against someone anywhere else would probably get her charged, but that punch was bad, and if he was angry ... I don't blame him for being so, but that was really excessive. Yet, performers shouldn't have to fear doing their job, either. Sad situation all around.

[MADem]

248. I think it is TRAGIC that she got hit.

That said, I'm not going to burn this guy at the stake, either. I don't know if he was frightened, angry, freaked out, having an anxiety attack, or what. It was a sad situation, and it could have been avoided had security done their job. This guy isn't a "first tier" performer, there were something like five hundred people in the venue and fifteen security personnel--probably not nearly enough.

[nomorenomore08]

546. "I think it is TRAGIC that she got hit. That said, I'm not going to burn this guy at the stake."

Well put.

[raccoon]

367. Great post. nt

[seabeyond]

268. +1. incredible. nt

[trumad]

278. Same old MRA boys...

Every single time.

[seabeyond]

280. and fan club. nt

[Capt. Obvious]

68. Black man assaults white woman in Mississippi

Didn't any sort of mob form outside of the police station?

[hunter]

71. A high school classmate of mine made it big in the music industry. Really big.

I was walking through Westwood California one fine evening, a little tipsy, and I saw her out in the street at a bus stop, on her knees puking her guts out onto the street. I went to her gently, to lead her back onto the sidewalk before a bus or car ran over her. An instant later her "guys" had knocked me down and were mashing my cheek against the pavement.

She acknowledged me as an acquaintance, and that was that. No harm, no foul.

I walked away a little bruised and bloody but with a most excellent story I will tell my grandkids and great grandkids.

[hifiguy]

75. I spent a lot of time playing in bars

and elsewhere, and if anyone had ever tried to come up on stage or grab me would have gotten the headstock of my bass guitar right in the mush unless they had been specifically invited up there. I don't come into McDonalds and tell you how to flip the fuckin' burgers, so stay off my stage.

[trumad]

77. keyboard warriors...tough guys...

Bad asses.... studs.... muscle men....

Dime a dozen on the intertubes.

[jberryhill]

80. Here's another thing that I guess never happens to performers

[trumad]

82. you know some men get hard ons when they see a women get hit

Sick puppies eh?

[jberryhill]

84. I don't think he got a hard on

You know some people think performers are objects to whom they can do anything, eh?

White woman comes up to black man from behind and rubs her ass against him without his consent.

Who gets arrested?

The black guy!

Sorry, I wasn't raised in Mississippi, so the logic eludes me.

[trumad]

87. oh he didnt...

Just the MRA types that defend this type of shit.

[jberryhill]

89. "this type of shit"

....being reacting to a sexual assault?

I cordially invite you to take a look at the other videos I've posted in this thread which are typical of 'fan on stage touching performer' reactions of a variety of gender combinations.

[hunter]

166. I'm a child of matriarchy...

... as far back in history as you'd like to go.

Not MRA in any way, anti MRA in every way..

Still, I'm not sure there is anything political or misogynist here.

Musicians can be temperamental. Stand clear when they are doing their thing.

[opiate69]

108. So sez Du's biggest paper-tiger internet wannabe....

But yeah... performers shouldn't be so touchy about people jumping up on stage, right?

[trumad]

110. the trumpets have blown and here they come...

Clockwork.

[opiate69]

113. "Here they come"??

My first post in this thread was 5 1/2 hours ago, genius.

[trumad]

115. every group needs a leader.

[hunter]

139. Thank God I washed out as a Hollywood kid before kindergarten.

I'm slightly autistic, was a bit of a pansy, and tended to say whatever was on my mind. My four year old mind was pretty wild and frequently inappropriate. I made important studio people nervous. No more Hollywood work for little hunter.



Blame it on my grandma and her sister. They ran away to Hollywood. My parents met working in Hollywood.

Two of my siblings didn't figure out Hollywood was a rotten game until they had SAG cards and were old enough to legally get very very drunk whenever things went rotten.

My brother often played rough cowboys and biker dudes. Rough biker dude was easiest for him since he actually is a rough biker dude. He builds big artistic motorcycles too. His daughter, my niece, like so many of the women in my family, is a horse whisperer.

My sister played biker chicks, tough cheerleaders, and random bikini beach babes. She's the baddest among all my siblings, a firefighter paramedic, vying for baddest blood and guts top honors with my wife.

Riding along in a car with my wife or my sister and encountering bloody highway accidents with dead and very broken people, I've always just watched the kids and comforted the less injured while the women take charge.

Our kids have stories about their moms and aunts.

[Go Vols]

102. +1

[tblue37]

105. I wonder why her bodyguards didn't bother to get her out of the damned

street themselves. She should have fired them for not doing their job in the first place.

[hunter]

161. Much more sober than I was, they probably had a clearer view of the situation,

In my defense, I didn't recognize her as someone famous, just someone I recognized.

And I'd probably have done the same for anyone.

[PeteSelman]

106. She should have punched him for that horrible guitar work.

I hope she sues the balls off of him. What a jerkoff move.

[trumad]

111. I agree

But note the tough guys in this thread.

[Bonobo]

124. I see ONE person repeatedly acting like a tough blustery jerk on this thread. nt

[opiate69]

129. As usual,

[Bonobo]

133. The need to prove his "bonafides" as a "good man"...

is interesting.

Even more interesting is that the way that he seems to want to prove it always by standing up and being the strong man that needs to step in and defend the "little wimmen".

[trumad]

140. You're late.

Couldn't hear the bugle?

[trumad]

150. Is that all you got?

Seriously..that's your smack. You use to be have decent...not anymore.

[Bonobo]

155. Opiate, "You use to be have decent!" nt

[opiate69]

160. LMAO! (I read your post first and was just a wee bit confuzzled)

[trumad]

437. opiate...bye bye

[LittleBlue]

114. She's just rubbing up against him

Happens every day in every club. Sure she shouldn't be up there, but the correct response is to get security, tell her to get down or just go with it. Unloading on someone like that out of the blue is ridiculous.

Hopefully she's okay and he makes better decisions in the future.

[ND-Dem]

206. thank you. he should have stopped playing, left the stage and called security or police if

she was so scary.

[nomorenomore08]

547. +2

[Bonobo]

117. Looks like he reacted before he had any idea who was there or what they were doing.

Frank Zappa was knocked off stage and had his arm broken when someone went up on stage. It is a dangerous place and people get out of hand.

Maybe the performer had a similar experience.

He reacted.

Would the outrage be the same if it had been a human with a penis that was slapped?

[jberryhill]

122. Take a look at the other videos in the thread

...and you will find your answer.

Performers get attacked, things thrown at them, etc. on a regular basis. I'm guessing a lot of folks don't know how dangerous it can be.

[Bonobo]

125. For all he knew, he was about to be knifed.

And my guess would be that the performer in question has probably been in some tougher and more threatening spots than the sputtering outraged white posters on this thread.

[trumad]

141. you 3 boys...so damn cute.

[Bonobo]

143. Exhibit A.

Big man calling other men "boys".

Who is ACTUALLY perpetuating the concept of what a "real man" is here through the use of loaded terms and with the presumption that "wimmenfolks" need to be protected from big bad black men.

Look in the mirror to find the blustering "keyboard warrior" you speak of. Everyone here knows that you are a big, strong 6'3" (whatever) "tough guy". Why? because it is part of your posting (and bragging) history.

Does THAT not sound like one of those "guys" to you?

And THAT is why your reactions are so strong on the issue.

Extreme sensitivity indicates the presence of a wound.

[trumad]

146. I wonder if it's some kind of sexual illness with the MBA types...

Do they get aroused when they see a woman bashed to the ground.... I think they do.... they also seem to run in packs to defend men with this type of behavior.

Fortunately we only seem to have a few here at DU...I'll tell you something... debating sickos who get their jollies off when a woman is smacked around is kind of icky.

You agree with me..right?

Goodnight.

[Bonobo]

151. Yes, Masters of Business Administration are known for that.

Thanks for the laughs!

[trumad]

153. I knew you'd agree....

[Hassin Bin Sober]

135. Here he is "defending himself" against another "sexual assault"

The guy is an asshole.

[polly7]

147. If someone started rubbing their ass on mine without my permission I would definitely

consider it sexual assault, man or woman. I've worked in bars and had people grab my ass, my drink tray got them good a few times. I don't think anyone can be expected to do nothing when it happens, but he was excessive ... and I do feel bad for her also.

[reddread]

159. Id call myself lucky

did you call the police, or just hit them?
seems relevant.

[polly7]

265. Of course I didn't call the police.

It was always super busy, dark, packed - you mostly took care of yourself (we have no bouncers in small city and town bars where I was), or finally got the owner involved if they didn't quit or they wouldn't leave - who then threw them out himself or (very, very seldomly) called the police. I should add too, that we had our regulars who were quick to help us if things got bad - ironically, they were the 'dreaded' biker-types and rig-workers in the back, so it wasn't the end of the world ... you knew you were never alone.

I just read though that this man thought the woman had left the stage and that he believed he'd hit the man who was heckling him. That changes things a bit.

[one_voice]

165. Yep. I agree with you...

Last edited Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:52 AM - Edit history (1)

I feel bad for her. Why wasn't there security?

But if someone, man or woman started grinding on me without my permission, they're getting a beating. No if, ands, or butts. I'd be especially aggressive if they came at me from behind. Nope, that shit doesn't fly. My body, my space, my right to beat your ass if you touch/invade it.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's just how it is.


edited to clarify: by my when I said 'my body, my space' the 'my space' I was still talking about my body. I wouldn't hit anyone for being too close--I would ask them to move. I often say my body my space as one thing. Sorry for the confusion.

[Vattel]

182. Wow, have you ever come across the concept of proportionality?

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

257. That is the point missed by the the "Stand Your Stage" folks here.

Also, in bringing up an earlier thread where many were defending a woman who was fined for hitting a man who grabbed her ass in a bar, fails to recognize the power differential between most men and most women, certainly this man and this woman.

[ND-Dem]

224. You don't have any legal right to beat someone who touches you or 'invades your space'.

sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's just how it is.

there wasn't security apparently because mr wonderful didn't check it out, though it was supposedly in his contract.

[one_voice]

297. I edited my post...

my body my space---was one concept...not literally 'my space'. I wouldn't hit someone for standing too close. I would ask them to move. Sorry that I wasn't clearer on that point.

As for the rest of what I said. I stand by that. You don't go up and grind on someone without their permission. Or touch them in any explicit sexual way. It's wrong.

I have a feeling if that was a woman and some random dude grinding up on her and she cold cocked him the reactions would be a little different. But I could be wrong.

[reddread]

271. leg.

It also altered the fundamental of his singing voice. A pretty bad scene.
Jealous boyfriend I think?

not one of these examples excuses a nanosecond of what happened.

[nomorenomore08]

548. I *understand* why he reacted like that. I just think it was excessive.

If he'd simply shoved her away, that would be one thing. And I would think the same if it were a much smaller guy dancing onstage - physical size is more a factor than gender for me.

[Vattel]

149. This thread is bizarre.

People are actually defending this creep. It's hard to explain. Does Obama like him or something?

[trumad]

152. no 3 or 4 are defending this douchebag

And it's the same 3 or 4 that always defend this shit.

[reddread]

157. wannabe rock stars

no idea about the "3 or 4", but
wanna be rock stars
identify with the necessity of the beat down.
so do I, but in another direction.

[MADem]

223. You are being rude and obstreperous.

There's a difference of opinion here and so what--this is a discussion board, and people will differ, but the one who is "casting aspersions" and questioning the motives of people here is YOU.

Your conduct on this thread is UNCIVIL. Calling people names, and categorizing them unfavorably, because they don't agree with you is LOW.

Just because people don't see things your way doesn't make them "douchebag defenders" or any of the other nasty names you are tossing around.

[Widget2000]

260. Oh please.

So what is post #148 if not "rude and obstreperous"? Calling names, yes?

There IS some douchebag defending going on here, trying to push some gender double standard argument which is completely offensive. The underlying argument: "Oh well, women shouldn't be so uppity about getting groped all the time, because look when a woman kinda touches a man on stage she's SEXUALLY ASSAULTING HIM TOO and thus deserving of physical assault". As if there was any parity in the extremeness or frequency compared to what women deal with.

THAT is uncivil, offensive, and LOW.

[boston bean]

279. + about a 1000

[MADem]

313. That's utter nonsense.

"When a woman kinda touches a man on stage she's SEXUALLY ASSAULTING HIM TOO..."

Let's change the genders, and watch you change your tune so fast our heads would spin.

It's not a matter of frequency or "extremeness"--it's all about PERCEPTION of the person being touched.

It's clear that you have different standards for people--depending on their appearance.

[ronnie624]

474. You bet.

[840high]

176. Not only defending but also

bringing the race card into this.

[Bobbie Jo]

266. WTF?

"Does Obama like him or something?"

What is your deal, exactly?

Idiocy.

[JI7]

293. considering he defends Zimmerman

Maybe something against blacks.

And I'm one who says Afroman was wrong here.

[Bobbie Jo]

304. Well then....

I guess that makes more sense.

I just thought it was an odd comment to throw into the mix.

A gratuitous jab that just demonstrates the thought process at work here.

I thought the performer was excessive and wrong here as well.

[Comrade Grumpy]

342. I'd like to see a link for that. Especially since you have a history of lying about such claims.

As you once did to me. And got your lying post hidden.

[Vattel]

433. I don't defend Zimmerman. For all I know, he is a cold-blooded murderer.

What I do argue is that the prosecution didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty. I also think that none of us really knows whether Martin or Zimmerman initiated the violence. That opinion gets me called a racist by various idiots.

[Vattel]

411. That's right. Anyone who thinks that the prosecution

in the Zimmerman case didn't prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt must be a racist. Pathetic.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

402. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that

Someone's slip is showing.

[Vattel]

412. Yes I am attacking Afroman because I am anti-black. Lol. What idiocy.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

414. Your comment about Obama was bizarrely out of left field

It's the sort of crap I expect from a poster at Yahoo!, not here.

[Vattel]

415. lol, sorry, it was supposed to be a joke, but it misfired and did seem bizarre.

[Vattel]

410. Lol, don't be so sensitive.

[Bobbie Jo]

417. Your bizarre fixation

has nothing to do with my level of sensitivity.

lol

[Vattel]

422. Come on, you got all sensitive on me. Just admit it and you will feel better.

[Bobbie Jo]

429. No

I got all WTF?? on you.

You might have a point if I was the only one who thought your remark was strange.

[Vattel]

432. Okay, you win. Your reaction was so extreme

I thought you were getting defensive, but maybe you just didn't understand my little snarky remark. I was only suggesting in a snarky, joking way that if Obama liked the asshole that hit the woman, that would explain why some people on DU are defending his behavior. I was being snarky because I get irritated by some people who post on DU who will defend Obama no matter what. Obviously I didn't really think that Obama has any respect for the asshole in question.

[Bobbie Jo]

434. I knew what you meant

It was stupid.

[Vattel]

438. What was stupid about it?

Some people at DU will defend most anything that Obama endorses.

[Bobbie Jo]

440. You just demonstrated my point

and all that has fuck all to do with this thread???

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6250206

What a bizarre fixation you have there.

[Vattel]

486. Man, a little sidebar joke and I have a bizarre fixation.

You need to relax and get some perspective.

[Bobbie Jo]

488. lol

Yeah, I need to get some perspective.


You need to get some new material.

[cwydro]

156. What an idiot.

Glad he was arrested.

[Skittles]

163. where was security?

[dilby]

173. I wonder what would have happened if roles were reversed.

If it would have been a female performer with a male groping on her, would people feel the same way if she slapped him?

[Bonx]

180. Or if it was a white guy decking a black woman

[dilby]

189. Interesting point.

Personally I always think it's wrong to hit a woman, but if I watch the video and I picture a woman performing and some dude coming up behind her and rubbing on her ass, yeah I could honestly says she should punch him. Which has me thinking I have some gender equality issues going on with myself.

[Orrex]

198. No need to wonder

See my post below

[nomorenomore08]

549. Slapping or shoving him would be perfectly fine. Knocking him out might be a bit excessive.

To me, it's not about gender so much as size differential - and Afroman is clearly much bigger than the woman he punched.

[Orrex]

194. I think that Foreman clearly overreacted and should face all appropriate penalties

However, DU has previously made it clear that a violent blow to the face is an acceptable response to sexual assault.

[RandiFan1290]

263. Thank you

I remember that thread with the idiots that think I should enjoy a woman grabbing my ass.

Yes ladies, even you have to keep your hands to yourself and respect others personal space.

[Orrex]

319. I recall your comments in that other thread.

The two situations are strikingly similar, with strikingly different reactions.

[Capt. Obvious]

321. Linking to older DU posts is a common MRA tactic

[Orrex]

322. Posting from your Obamaphone is a common MRA tactic

[Capt. Obvious]

324. Your sig promotes Etsy a hotbed of MRA activity

[Orrex]

328. Whoa--it's worse than I thought!

[Dr. Strange]

360. Pointing out common MRA tactics is a common MRA tactic.

Wait...

[Capt. Obvious]

362. Putting mayonnaise on everything you eat is a common MRA tactic

[Dr. Strange]

364. Chuggo is not an MRA--he's a CRA.

A Chuggo Rights Apologist. Or a Canadian Rap Artist. Both work.

Aw c'mon fuckin guy!

[Capt. Obvious]

365. Did he spend Valentine's Day by the Lake Side?

[nomorenomore08]

551. Throwing one's hands toward your neck and wrapping them around, is a common MRA tactic. n/t

[PlanetaryOrbit]

452. Do you have any argument to offer, other than "MRA, MRA, MRA?"

It shows little analytical or debating ability.

[Capt. Obvious]

491. Your accusations are typical of the MRA brigade

[nomorenomore08]

552. ...

(*Clearly didn't get the joke.*)

[nomorenomore08]

550. I think the charges probably should (and will) be dropped in this case as well.

But I still think Afroman's a dick - not so much for what he did, but for his nonchalant reaction afterwards.

[JI7]

197. if he truly was startled and scared wouldn't he have stopped playing ?

and made sure the threat was gone ?

it doesn't seem like he is startled at all with the way he just kept on playing .

[Bonobo]

203. Reacting like that is normal and even appropriate response to a threat. nt

[JI7]

209. it doesn't look like he felt threatened the way he just kept on playing

[Bonobo]

212. Why would you conclude that?

The threat was gone and he had a job to do.

[JI7]

214. he himself said he knew the girl was on stage and thought he punched a guy heckling him

he claims he thought the girl had left the stage and it was the guy heckling him that he punched.

[Bonobo]

215. Yes, that's true. He said that.

He should have stopped and helped the person he hit. But he was probably divided on it, worrying that he needs to keep performing.

I guess he made a spot judgment there that was wrong (to keep playing).

But that in no way indicates that his response was NOT the result of feeling threatened.

[Widget2000]

262. "The threat was gone and he had a job to do."

jesus, you're really doubling down here. If I was SO upset by someone that I felt it necessary to lay them fuckin out on the floor, the last thing I'd be able to do would be keep on playing a nice mellow guitar tune. But hey, I'm not an asshole who reacts with disproportionate violence to every perceived slight.

Your mileage may vary, oh Biological Determinism One.

[Demit]

283. I'm always impressed by people who know what they would do in any spontaneous situation.

To have such perfect knowledge of themselves, no matter what situation arises! They are truly special.

[ND-Dem]

218. the "threat" being? a woman who's smaller than you bumping your butt with hers for 1 second?

scary stuff.

[Bonobo]

220. I didn't mean it was an actual threat.

I was trying to describe what happened in his mind.

He says he thought it was the man who had been heckling him behind him.

[ND-Dem]

231. he also said he saw the woman on stage. he didn't see the man. he just 'thought' the man.

probably because he didn't want the fans to think it was his habit to randomly punch out women.

[MADem]

221. If a guy smaller than Taylor Swift "bumped her butt for one second" she should smile and

blow him a kiss, then?

Performers have a right to not be touched or bothered.

[ND-Dem]

225. if taylor swift had 50 pounds on the guy, yeah, maybe she should.

I imagine that taylor swift makes sure she has security in place, something this guy apparently didn't, despite having a contract.

[MADem]

228. Yeah, maybe? Maybe? Not "Let the wheels of justice spin, bring the guilty bee word in?"

This guy had a rider in his contract for security--so now it's HIS fault that the venue didn't carry through? You seriously think he ASKED for this grief?

I suppose Taylor Swift personally hires and trains all the security personnel at every concert she has...? There, but for grace and luck, goes she. This kind of thing can happen to anyone.

[ND-Dem]

232. I don't know whose fault it is; if I were a performer, I would know who the security personnel

were and where they were stationed, at least the ones who were supposed to be protecting me on and near the stage.

I'd think any performer who was worried about security would want to know that much, and I don't think it's a big challenge to find out.

[MADem]

233. Again--this guy doesn't make it a habit to clock women onstage--otherwise, we'd have heard about it

before now. The guy has been performing for decades. He has a security rider. In this case, that rider wasn't executed and security failed.

Are you saying that "any performer" would never ever, ever have any problem with security, and the fact that this guy had a problem with security at this venue is somehow his fault...after decades performing?

I mean, really. A big challenge to find out? How do you "find out" that your security has failed until after the fact? You tell them what you want, you expect them to provide it. If they don't provide it, you get people up on the stage, either playing the fan or shouting obscenities.

The venue owns a big piece of this issue, and I suspect as this rolls through the justice system they'll be taking a chunk of the blame.

[ND-Dem]

235. you don't know anything about his habits. so what if he has a security rider if he doesn't

know who or where the security people are?

I'd 'find out' before I needed security -- like by asking who & where they were before the show started.

[MADem]

239. You certainly don't know anything about his habits, either. I do know that he doesn't

have an interlude in his act where he invites women up on the stage only to beat them, though--otherwise, we'd have heard about that in the coverage of this event.

You don't know if he didn't "find out" -- and you don't know if the people assigned to protect him fell down on the job and were off getting high or something. Unless you were there, part of his staff or the venue staff, you don't know. I do note the way you continue to blame him for the failure of the security staff to keep him safe, though--that's rather interesting.

I'm acknowledging that I don't know all the details, which is why I will give the man the benefit of the doubt, and let the courts sort it out, rather than convict him in the Court of High DUdgeon, like so many are eager to do here (a most un-progresssive approach, IMO--and pretty sickening to see, frankly...some serious rushing to judgment, here, tsk, tsk).

[ND-Dem]

240. Unlike yourself, I made no claims about his habits.

[MADem]

246. I think you might want to re-read your own posts.

You most certainly do make claims in that regard.

You made no bones about describing how he doesn't appear to feel bad, and if he was so scared, why didn't he have security, and many other characterizations. You insist he saw the woman, you scold him for not leaving the stage when the trespassers appear, you describe his actions with such certainty, you certainly do come across like you're an authority on his habits and behaviors. Most of your comments in this thread are along the lines where you blame HIM for the venue's failure to keep him safe.

[ND-Dem]

306. I made no claims about his habits. None of the things you mention are habits, nor are most of

them claims, either.

"doesn't appear" "if" "he could have left the stage" etc.

[MADem]

310. Again--you need to re-read all your comments in this thread. You've tried, convicted and hanged the

man already.

Like I said--good thing you aren't a judge. You certainly aren't much of a fan of due process, apparently.

[ND-Dem]

316. "doesn't appear" "if" "he could have left the stage" etc.

[MADem]

334. Try consolidating your comments in future.

You do know there's an EDIT button? You don't have to hyperpost reply after reply--you can simply edit your existing post. That is a perfectly acceptable option if your initial post has not yet received a response.

[ND-Dem]

338. thanks mom

[ND-Dem]

323. in addition: "apparently" it's not the first time he's hit a fan.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/afroman-admits-second-time-hes-5187066

[MADem]

333. The guy has been a musician since he was in the eighth grade.

Your account provides no details, so I'm not going to get excited about a vague revelation with zero detail from Murdoch's MIRROR. He referenced some person messing up his act--was that to do with that incident?

Let's send people to your workplace to "touch your butt" while you're working, and we'll see how you like it, shall we?

[ND-Dem]

344. ...

Joseph Edgar Foreman (born July 28, 1974)...originally started rapping in the eighth grade, when he began recording homemade raps and selling them to his classmates...Foreman also performed in his church at a young age, playing both the drums and guitar.

In 1998 (when he was 24), Afroman released his first album...

(Producer) Ramenofsky produced and released Afroman's second album Because I Got High in 2000 (when the musician was 26)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroman

[ND-Dem]

423. people have touched my butt advertently and inadvertently many times in 40+ years of

working life.

I've never yet decked any of them.

[MADem]

439. Yes, of course--you kept playing that guitar and singing, I'm sure.

[ND-Dem]

446. Because guitar players and singers are the only people who ever get their butts bumped.

[MADem]

466. But we're not talking about other people--we're talking about one person.

Your circular comments are a lot of heat, but not much in the way of light.

[ND-Dem]

478. believe what you like. your repetitive comments are snooze inducing.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

447. Look at this:

The guy is an asshole.

https://m.

[Bonobo]

448. That was kinda asshole-ish. Wonder why THAT didn't bother anyone.

I mean he's so much bigger than the kid and in this case, as opposed to the one in this OP, he actually DID see who he was doing it to and it was pre-meditated as opposed to a startle reaction.

This is an elegant example of an indefensible double standard.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

450. I don't know about all that.

It's obvious the guy gets off hurting people "that deserve it".

He looked at that woman before he moved his mic stand. Then looked at her again before he clocked her.

And his story stinks. He knew the woman was on stage but thought she morphed in to a man from the audience. And it wasn't his fault but he was cranky and needs anger management. But it wasn't his fault.

And the shrug (adjusting his shirt/vest) after he decked that drunk woman was a real nice touch.

[Bonobo]

451. I just happen to differ with you on that interpretation.

It didn't look to me like the way you described it and I feel I am just calling this one like I saw it.

Still, the video you posted is unambiguous in showing that he made a decision.

The other one I am quite sure was a reaction to a perceived threat. Just my read on it.

As far as him being a person with anxiety, I see no reason to doubt that either. Many people are, especially those that have been in a lot of dicey, close situations and my guess is that he has been in some very rough spots.

[MADem]

449. He plays venues with lousy security. The "asshole" in your video left the stage in a hurry.

He has a right to his personal safety while performing. Don't want problems? Don't hassle the performers. Simple.

Who thinks it's "OK" to bother someone in that fashion? You?

At least we're not playing the "Mean man/defenseless woman" card on this go-round.

I'll bet you'd be real cheery if strangers came up with intentions unknown while you were working--but hey, it's easy to act all tough and confident when it's not you having to deal with people who are stupid enough to climb a stage and confront performers, with unclear goals. Not everyone is a "fan." Some "fans" are "stalkers" and some "fans" are "assholes."

So, whatever. I'm sure John Lennon's widow wishes he was a bit more of an "asshole," too.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

456. Lol. Ridiculous.

Tell me he thought the guy was a threat. Go on. Do it.

Tell me how the guy he was just shaking hands with was a pick pocket or a knife wielding maniac or a sexual predator bent on ass grinding sexual assault. Maybe the kid tickled his palm when he shook his hand????

I went to high school with a guy who worked security at Chicago Rush Street clubs (even though he came from a wealthy family) because he got his cookies off beating up drunks and throwing them down the stairs.

I know the guy is a half assed loser one hit wonder. But even the lowest of the low garage bar bands I've seen over the years would have a roadie or a helper who could walk a harmless drunk off the stage.

Let's get real. This isn't John Lennon. This isn't Mick Jagger. This isn't Nicki Minaj. It's some loser county fair bum who likes to beat up drunks and women. Why anyone would want to defend him, especially since their pet bizarro self defense secret squirrel fantasy flew away like that kid off the stage, is beyond me.

[MADem]

461. What's ridiculous is you thinking you can get inside this guy's head.

I don't care if you went to high school with the Queen of Sheba, frankly. Your personal anecdotes don't change the fact that this guy is seen on video in two situations where security is problematic.

I just don't understand why you think it's somehow "unfair" that this guy have a workspace--the stage--that is free from disruption or potential personal endangerment. AND, it's quite apparent to me that you think that if he's not sufficiently "famous," he has less of a right to personal protection than famous artists who shop a very different kind of music....hmmm.

Let's memorialize these telling words:

I know the guy is a half assed loser one hit wonder....Let's get real. This isn't John Lennon. This isn't Mick Jagger. This isn't Nicki Minaj. It's some loser county fair bum who likes to beat up drunks and women.

Tried and convicted in the court of Hassin Bin Sober!! Not "because he got high" but because he's a "loser county fair bum." Hmmmm.

Now that we know where your bias lies, your comments make more sense. Clearly, a working artist who plays smaller venues, releases his own music, and isn't beholden to the corporate media industry is less deserving of protection while practicing his craft. And he should be scorned and characterized, too! Never mind his statements with regard to this event.

Ohhh kay....!

I also find it amusing that you "know" what happened in that short clip. You don't. You don't know what that guy was saying to the performer, you have a few moments of video and an incomplete story. But you don't let that stop you!

And if he was wrong, and the trespasser was "right," why hasn't this big black terrorizing artist been frog-marched off to jail after that event? Why is he allowed to walk free? Why was his bond on this incident just a trifling amount?

Maybe the people who were there -- to include those involved in the justice system -- have a better handle on this than you do. I can certainly wait for them to sort it out, but I think it's interesting that you can't.

[nomorenomore08]

554. Lennon is a rare case where I *wish* someone else had had a gun. n/t

[MADem]

555. Lennon's death scared other performers, with good reason.

There are a lot of obsessed and dangerous people out there:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/03/06/music-celebrity-stalkers_n_4904187.html

[nomorenomore08]

556. Yes, and as others have mentioned, there's also the Dimebag murder much more recently (2004):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimebag_Darrell#Death

"On December 8, 2004, Abbott was shot onstage while performing with Damageplan at the Alrosa Villa in Columbus, Ohio. Using a 9 mm Beretta 92FS pistol, the gunman Nathan Gale shot Abbott three times in the head with the third shot killing him instantly. Some in attendance initially believed the shooting was part of the act, but as Gale continued shooting the audience quickly came to the realization that the event was not staged. Having fired a total of fifteen shots, Gale killed a total of four people while wounding seven others.

Jeff "Mayhem" Thompson, the band's head of security, was killed tackling Gale, as was Alrosa Villa employee Erin Halk. Audience member Nathan Bray was killed while trying to perform CPR on Abbott and Thompson. It was rumored that one crowd member leapt in front of the gunman, saving the lives of several band members.[14] Damageplan drum technician, John "Kat" Brooks, was shot three times as he attempted to get the gun away from Gale, but was overpowered and taken hostage in a headlock position. Tour manager Chris Paluska was also injured."

[uppityperson]

453. So he is known for doing this, reacting violently to his fans?

Oh, sorry. I mean, that kid shouldn't have surprised and assaulted him like he did, it was his own fault for provoking such a violent reaction.

Thanks for this vid, it is telling that this has happened with Afroman before. He's an ass.

[Bonobo]

455. Him being an ass...

Does NOT mean that he intentionally swung that hard at what he knew was a woman and it also doesn't mean that he doesn't suffer from some kind of hyper anxiety that he says he is taking medication for.

I do not think the guy is a champ of a person. But I also don't think his hitting that woman was pre-meditated.

[uppityperson]

457. His nonchalant actions afterwards were telling for me. Benefit of the doubt for the over reaction

hitting her, but then to just turn aside? If I startled and hit someone I'd care enough to check on them once I saw it was a mistake. So I judge him for that. Rather like that elevator assault with what's their names, the blasée aftermath.

[one_voice]

462. I agree that his nonchalant attitude after...

is troubling. You would think he'd check and make sure she was ok. When he saw he'd made a mistake he should have stopped and gotten her help.

You (the collective) can argue motives all day long--was he startled, was it just reactionary, did he see her, etc. but how he acted after that's a different story.

[Bonobo]

465. Yeah, I can't argue with you on that one. nt

[nomorenomore08]

553. That was just as bad as, if not worse than, the video in the OP.

Worse because it seems premeditated and entirely deliberate.

[Jenoch]

204. My response is,

WTF is wrong with BOTH of them?

[Glassunion]

237. Performers do get attacked quite often. It's not unusual. So, 2 things folks should learn from this.

#1. If you're not in the band - You don't have any business being on the stage. Period. End of Story. Go the fuck home.

System of a Down

Tool - 2:45 - And he never stopped singing...

More importantly...
#2. Don't punch someone just because they are not supposed to be there. Period. End of Story. Go the fuck home.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

261. I couldn't agree with you more completley!

People enjoying a band often don't know how to act. My pet peeve is those who come up during a song to ask one of the players something. Seriously? You couldn't wait until we're done this song?! Arrrrrghhhh! But no one I know has ever hit someone for doing it.

[kcdoug1]

238. Stay off the damn Stage

nobody gives a f*ck about your drunken ass... don't f*ck with the performance... idiot..! I would have done the same thing... that stage is MINE when I'm on it...!

[raccoon]

270. Jeez, if John Lennon had decked the creep who murdered him, John might be alive today.

I don't blame this man at all. She could have had a weapon and been trying to kill him. He didn't know her from Adam.

After the way John was murdered, I don't blame any celebrity for being uptight or even paranoid about events like this.

[Capt. Obvious]

281. Invoking John Lennon is a well known MRA talking point.

[raccoon]

285. Guilt by association logical fallacy.

Guilt by association is the attempt to discredit an idea based upon disfavored people or groups associated with it

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/guiltbya.html

[Capt. Obvious]

291. Claiming logical fallacies is another well known MRA talking point

[raccoon]

369. You just did the "guilt by association" logical fallacy thing again. nt

[Capt. Obvious]

416. And there you go with typical MRA tactics again. nt

[tblue37]

406. The captain is snarking at the posters who keep accusing MADem and others

on this thread of being MRA guys. "X is a typical MRA talking point/tactic/behavior" is the method they've been using to make the accusations.

[boston bean]

274. Extremely disturbing video

and double extremely disturbing comments defending the cold cocking of a woman who had no weapon and was not being aggressive in any way.

[Bonobo]

275. Sounds like you didn't listen to his apology and explanation. Did you? nt

[snooper2]

295. reverse roles and you'll get the replies you want!

Woman ass grabbed, okay to knock the fucker out!


LOL, hypocrisy is awesome!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022567780

[MADem]

387. But this isn't about gender....!

[samsingh]

282. that was disgusting

[Rex]

284. NM. I see he went back to playing after knocking her out.

How fucking sick.

[BubbaFett]

287. two words:

GG and Allin

I think some of y'all would have went down, pearls and all, if you managed to live through one of HIS concerts.

[Rhinodawg]

290. Dumb move , Afroman

[TreasonousBastard]

296. Fascinating how this played out...

although not at all unexpected.

There is that group who immediately, and painfully, jerked their knees about yet another instance of battering women.

And several groups who know absolutely, positively what everyone involved was thinking and what they should have done, although they don't quite agree on what everyone was thinking and what they should, or shouldn't, have done.

A few people asked something along the lines of "Would it have made a difference if it was a guy he hit?" They were largely ignored.

And a few people sort of mentioned that if you fuck with someone when they least expect it, strange things can happen, some of them bad. They were mostly ignored, too. Except for one guy who actually might know about the law here, but he was automatically wrong for knowing what he's talking about.

[trumad]

305. Nah---I see the MRA brigade hopping in and spouting exactly what you expect them to spout.

I have to hand it to them---they are consistent.

[TreasonousBastard]

309. I didn't see much in the way of MRA...

but I wasn't looking for it, either.

[Comrade Grumpy]

343. I think Afroman was clearly in the wrong, but you are obnoxious.

Throughout this thread, all you have done is insult people, try to bait them, and generally act like a combative jerk.

You repeatedly insinuate that people you disagree with are "MRA douche bags" and you try to get away with by not directly accusing the posters you are attacking. Fucking grow up. Or at least have the guts to not hide behind cutesy phrasing.

You should really think about your posting behavior and what you're trying to accomplish.

[trumad]

346. Someone is Grumpy

Listen Pal.... MRA fucks piss me off to no end and so do piss ants who defend them.

They know who the fuck they are and many here on DU know as well.

I will continue to kick them in the balls at every turn.

So----Take your advice and go ............!

How's that for cutesy phrasing?

[MADem]

397. I think you hit a home run with that post, and I would like to associate myself with your remarks!

[DesMoinesDem]

311. The number of people on DU that support violence against women is scary.

And the excuses they come up with are pathetic. He was justified because her butt might have touched his, she could have tried to stab him, he thought she was stealing his wallet.

I think there is some racism in the defense of this guy. If a large white man had hit a small black women no one would defend him. Many people on this website would immediately call him a racist.

[KittyWampus]

341. Two dynamics here: performer reacts to stranger on stage (potential threat)

Performer hits stranger on stage (potential threat) who happens to be female.

Interesting how many DU'ers obsess over the feminine gender of the stranger on stage (potential threat) and think she is NOT A THREAT simply because she is female.

[AngryAmish]

352. what a shitstorm

[dogknob]

357. "one hit wonder..." like it would have been totally cool if it were someone else.

IF someone made it through the phalanx of security guarding Katy Perry and she creamed them with a mic stand, would we be hearing about the victim or all of the people who got fired for even allowing it to happen?

[NCTraveler]

361. Trumad, please leave this posting and stop being correct in your assumptions.

I rather enjoy letting you know you are wrong and a douche. Yet you are hitting it out of the park with every post here. Please go back to your old douche ways.

[markpkessinger]

396. Whether or not people think it was an over reaction, or warranted an arrest . . .

. . . I think we should probably all be able to agree that the venue is in need of better stage security!

[Dont call me Shirley]

403. For 402 replies, I'm giving you a REC!

[uppityperson]

430. 430, 4 recs and only 1 hide. It is something!

[Vattel]

492. This has got to be one of the most insane threads ever. Thanks for your sane contributions.

We have seen various Duers make a variety of clearly false claims in defense of Afroman's behavior. We have heard that it was an unfortunate accident, that it was unintentional, an involuntary reflex, justifiable self-defense, and understandable given how many performers are attacked these days. We have heard people say that if someone touched them from behind they would respond as Afroman did. We have also seen defenders of Afroman accuse some of his critics of being motivated by racism. Of course no actual evidence of racism was offered.

Let's be clear:

It was not an accident or unintentional. He was trying to hit another human being. That is obvious. He may have thought it was a heckler (if his story is true), but he clearly was trying to hit someone.

It was not an involuntary reflex reaction. That would make it like blinking when something suddenly flies towards one's eyes. It was motivated behavior and involuntary reflex actions are not motivated.

It was not justifiable self-defense. Justifiable self-defense requires a proportionate response to the reasonable belief that one is in serious danger. Afroman did not reasonably believe that he was in serious danger. And his response was obviously disproportionate to the relatively minor assault on his person. And no, the fact that some performers have been hurt by fans on stage doesn't show that there was any serious threat here. Zillions of fans have come onto zillions of stages in performances and not hurt anyone.

edited to add: I am not coming back to this thread. I am tired of defending the obvious.
Anyone who says that they would punch someone in response to being touched from behind should seek help. Imagine being on a dance floor and someone you don't know has had a little too much to drink and starts to flirtatiously bump his or her butt into you. Your response: Hit them as hard as you can in the face. Is that sane behavior? Obviously not.

And for those who resorted to calling those critics of Afroman racist, there is plenty of real racism to worry about in the world. There is no need to make irresponsible charges of racism.

[Liberal_in_LA]

514. i agree with u. it was not just a reflex

[nomorenomore08]

557. +2

[rocktivity]

405. I'm more than satisifed that it was accident.

Last edited Thu Feb 19, 2015, 10:49 PM - Edit history (1)

She was trespassing; she did not obey orders to leave the stage. She took him by surprise; her own back was to him. He was defending himself from someone who he thought was male and I hope the law rules accordingly.


rocktivity

[Bonx]

502. Me too. Actually, same thing happened to me at Kroger today.

I decked a woman that brushed up behind me in line.
People acted like it was a big deal.
Her jaw was a swollen mess and she may have permanent neck and facial injuries, but I explained using the logic in this thread that it was ok.
Everyone calmed down and we all had a good laugh.
/sarcasm

[treestar]

537. Lol

That gave me a chuckle

[ND-Dem]

484. Venue says there was security

Many people on social media who watched the video questioned where the nightclub's security was during the incident. Taylor defended his business saying there was sufficient security in place.

"We had roughly 12-15 security guards in a crowd of 500 people," Taylor said. "Kress Live does not condone this type of behavior. We like to keep a safe environment, and we addressed the situation the best way we could."

Taylor said performers will sometimes call audience members up on stage, and it wasn't immediately clear when the woman was spotted on stage if she had been invited.

"If you watch the video closely, you'll see her boyfriend jump up on stage right after the hit. He was followed right behind by security. There was security at the front point of the stage and he was rotating through the crowd to get to the back," Taylor said. "Talking about the contract between Kress Live and Afroman, we have met every single obligation noted."

http://www.waff.com/story/28133270/second-video-shows-what-happened-after-afroman-punched-woman-on-stage


second video on same page shows what happened after the boyfriend followed the woman.

[BklnDem75]

500. Which is not surprising...

I'd be more surprised if they'd admit they screwed up.

[ND-Dem]

506. there was some, because there's video of people keeping the boyfriend from coming back on stage.

[BklnDem75]

507. I don't think anyone claimed there was zero security...

Just an inadequate level of security to keep performers from actually being touched. Any decent venue should be able to do that, at the very least.

[ND-Dem]

508. if they kept the boyfriend from coming back, they kept the boyfriend offstage in at least

that instance.

I don't know what happened with security, but video says there was some.

I don't want to wade through the entire thread again to find the evidence, but my memory is that the claim was made that there was no security.

[BklnDem75]

510. His girlfriend got cuffed...

Anyone can figure out the boyfriend's going to be the biggest threat in that room. If security was on the job, two girls wouldn't be on stage during a performance. The venue screwed up and now they're trying to cover their ass.

[ND-Dem]

511. it may be security wasn't in the room at the time. but there was security, and they were

*somewhere*.

and fwiw, none of the video I've seen shows two girls on stage at any time, just the one.

[BklnDem75]

512. Isn't their job crowd control?

Why would they be anywhere else during a performance? Unless the performer requests it, any number greater than zero people on stage means security slipped. If they're on the stage for awhile, it means security slept.

[MADem]

519. 15 security for a crowd of five hundred drinking customers? Is that enough, I wonder?

In any event, Afroman is facing MISDEMEANOR (simple assault) charges, so he's not going to jail... and the woman was the one who made a citizen's arrest...

Biloxi police said the woman who was hit made a citizen's arrest. She filed an affidavit against the entertainer. He was arrested and charged with misdemeanor simple assault.

Afroman paid $330 cash to bond out of jail. According to Biloxi's police chief, the musician "gave us no problem whatsoever."

http://www.waff.com/story/28133270/second-video-shows-what-happened-after-afroman-punched-woman-on-stage

[WinkyDink]

521. Her action was wrong, but his was violent and criminal. Punching a female in the face? ISSUES.

[Liberal_in_LA]

526. yes. we all get bumped. can i deck a person who bumps me inline at the store?

No.

[nomorenomore08]

558. Yep. "Disproportionate force" is the key here.

I won't speculate on any personal "issues" of his - I don't know the guy - but he was very clearly in the wrong here.

[backscatter712]

527. Don't these concerts come with security?

Afroman should have let the bouncers or cops take care of this woman, instead of pulling this shit.

[uppityperson]

544. LOSING TOUR DATES After Punching Fan (UPDATE)

http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/19/afroman-cancelled-tour-dates-punching-female-fan/

When Afroman knocked out that fan on stage, he also KO'd a bunch of his upcoming tour dates -- because some of the venues don't take kindly to violence against women.
The rapper had 7 dates scheduled in the coming weeks, but we've learned 3 venues have already cancelled. One of them ... Ziggy's By the Sea in Wilmington, NC ... tells us they have a very Christian audience that won't tolerate the kinda thing that went down Tuesday night in Biloxi, MS.
We also called Park Street Saloon in Hilliard, OH ... and we're told they cancelled Afroman's show two minutes after seeing the video.
Another venue told us it's still on the fence -- however, 2 others say they're going forward with the scheduled shows.