Krugman: The Post-Truth Campaign

[ProSense]

The Post-Truth Campaign

By PAUL KRUGMAN

Suppose that President Obama were to say the following: “Mitt Romney believes that corporations are people, and he believes that only corporations and the wealthy should have any rights. He wants to reduce middle-class Americans to serfs, forced to accept whatever wages corporations choose to pay, no matter how low.”

How would this statement be received? I believe, and hope, that it would be almost universally condemned, by liberals as well as conservatives. Mr. Romney did once say that corporations are people, but he didn’t mean it literally; he supports policies that would be good for corporations and the wealthy and bad for the middle class, but that’s a long way from saying that he wants to introduce feudalism.

But now consider what Mr. Romney actually said on Tuesday: “President Obama believes that government should create equal outcomes. In an entitlement society, everyone receives the same or similar rewards, regardless of education, effort, and willingness to take risk. That which is earned by some is redistributed to the others.”

<...>

This is every bit as bad as my imaginary Obama statement. Mr. Obama has never said anything suggesting that he holds such views, and, in fact, he goes out of his way to praise free enterprise and say that there’s nothing wrong with getting rich. His actual policy proposals do involve a rise in taxes on high-income Americans, but only back to their levels of the 1990s. And no matter how much the former Massachusetts governor may deny it, the Affordable Care Act established a national health system essentially identical to the one he himself established at a state level in 2006.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/23/opinion/krugman-the-post-truth-campaign.html

[Romulox]

1. Why buy into Romney's frame at all? No great victory in Obama vigorously denying being a liberal. nt

[ProSense]

7. And

"No great victory in Obama vigorously denying being a liberal."

...that's defined by what exactly in the article: "His actual policy proposals do involve a rise in taxes on high-income Americans"?

I mean, if they weren't lowered to begin with, he would have been fighting the Republicans to raise them beyond the 1990s levels.

In fact, the net effect of Obama's policies will be a tax rates on the top one percent that are little higher than Clinton levels.

<...>

Under Clinton, the top 1 percent paid 33.4 percent; under Bush it paid 29.8 percent; and under Obama it would go back up to 35.3 percent, less than two points than under Clinton.

Meanwhile, under Clinton, the top 0.1 percent paid 36.9 percent; under Bush it paid 32.8 percent; and under Obama it would go back up to 39.7 percent. By contrast, every other group would be paying lower rates under Obama’s proposals than under Clinton. (A table detailing these numbers is right here.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/how-obamas-tax-hikes-will-really-impact-the-rich-in-three-easy-charts/2011/03/03/gIQAmbbLIL_blog.html

[Logical]

2. So we like Krugman today? I lose track!

[ProSense]

3. Well

"So we like Krugman today?"

..."we" liked Krugman yesterday too: http://www.democraticunderground.com/100260666

[Logical]

5. You act like this place never hates him! A certain set of posters love him only...

When he defends Obama and hates him otherwise! Please tell me you are aware of that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. People sometimes say smart things, and sometimes say dumb things

I don't know why this is hard for you to understand.

Indeed, I think you do understand this, and understand that there's no inconsistency in saying "Oh, that's smart," one day, and "Oh, that's dumb" the next. There's also no inconsistency in seeing patterns of dumb thoughts and smart thoughts in people, and attributing these to consistent biases.

[Logical]

8. So if a poster thinks Krugman is ever dumb then why EVER post his stuff? Makes no sense!

The bias here is a joke. Either you think Krugman knows his shit or does not.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. That's ridiculous

It makes no sense that people can sometimes be right and sometimes be wrong?

Really? That makes no sense?

Are you kidding?

[Logical]

12. No, it is your BIAS that makes them right or wrong? Jesus, think about it. If you think Krugman....

Is right when he praises Obama and wrong when he slams him then why trust him on anything?

You are blinded by faith!

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. You're being silly

People are perfectly capable of agreeing or disagreeing with somebody on separate questions. Linking that agreement or disagreement whether it critiques or praises Obama is your own sad little bias. There's nothing inconsistent about it.

[Logical]

15. Your being condescending, typical of someone who ran out of argument!

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Because your argument is so cogent

It's impossible for people to judge Krugman's points independent of their support for the administration! What an argument.

That it flies in the face of common experience should go without saying, but you have a little beef to engage in, and so your pristine argument continues.

Have a happy holiday.

[ProSense]

14. Actually,

"You act like this place never hates him! A certain set of posters love him only..."

...I'm not acting like anything. Your point is irrelevant to the OP. Completely irrelevant. Not only that, it's completely petty.

Maybe you can let it go and discuss Krugman's point instead of who likes or "hates" him.

[dawg]

10. Krugman is almost always right.

His criticisms of Obama have occasionally been pretty strong, which makes some on this message board very angry. I happen to think that they've all been quite valid.

But the fact of the matter is that Krugman is a brilliant man, and I think he will be the first in line to vote to re-elect the President. President Obama is not ideal, but he is a good President with at least some liberal tendencies.

We can fight about everything else once the 2016 primaries roll around.

[One of the 99]

4. Krugman is right.

He exposes the fiction that the media is liberal. It is not and leans much further to the right than most people think.

[ThomWV]

9. This is some sad fucking truth. K&R