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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsObsolete By 50 Will Eventually Be Obsolete At 40.
The economy has dumped millions of 50 something employees in the last 30 years to never be seen again except in the minor league job market of the low paying service economy. It will not be long before obsolete at 40 will be the new trend. It seems like corporations are always looking at the shiniest new thing. They want ever younger lower paid employees over experience and the expense of higher salaries and benefits plus the risk of health issues and family issues.
The danger of ever younger obsolescence is the real danger of the global economy. The problem is what does a worker do who is older for the 30 plus years in the minority league economy. With the break down of unions, labor laws, enforcement, job security et al job security and longevity is lower than ever and destined to become non existent altogether.
All workers cannot be entrepreneurs, continuously re invented and such. Creating a totally insecure work force in a work at will environment has huge social consequences that will create a dysfunctional society.
Until a a more kind business model is created workers will suffer. The present model will produce nothing but economic anarchy.
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onehandle
(51,122 posts)
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)looking into a basket for the last thing they will ever see.
The eventual change will NOT be peaceful. Resistance of the Gandhi/MLK type is effective only when those you are resisting have a conscience, which immediately takes most of the tenth-percenters out of the conversation at the beginning.
Bonx
(2,078 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)But there is a reasonable chance it might happen. If I am still able to keep up with the mob I will be with them, fighting like a wolverine to have the honor of pulling the rope on at least one tenth-percenter.
erronis
(15,379 posts)It would also be nice to have peer-to-peer networks where the owners of our broadband networks aren't frantically pulling the plugs before their heads go plop.
lastlib
(23,320 posts)ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)that makes the stakes too high.
the countervailing power can be "the people" or another powerful political faction (covert or otherwise) that makes common cause with 'the people,' at least with lip service.
randomelement
(128 posts)But we have to start thinking 21st century, right?
Think drones - razor sharp blades - fly by lopping
Warpy
(111,371 posts)It's all being done by design.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)
One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)Powerful stuff there! Wish I could get it broadcast to everyone in this country.
Warpy
(111,371 posts)but feel free to repost it. It really does need to be seen by as many people as possible.
What has been done to us is no accident. It was a long term plan.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)27+ years of post obsolescence shitty income will drive down retirement benefits for those who manage to actually reach whatever the retirement age is by then.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)madville
(7,412 posts)20 years of growing up, 20 years of work, then 50 years of poverty. Sounds awesome!
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,593 posts)It is up to all working people to demand that. Therein lies the problem.......... 
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)to dumbing down and propagandizing the peasantry. Keep them stupid and distracted with irrelevancies so they fight among themselves. The only people who benefit are the ownership class.
lastlib
(23,320 posts)Unions are one of the two countervailing powers that can line up against TPTB. The other one is the government, and TPTB is buying them off so they don't have to fight two fronts.
P.S. Remember when GWB said he was going to create an "ownership society"? Well, he did--we were just naive enough to think it would include all of us. And it doesn't. Carlin nailed it when he said, "It's a big club, and YOU ain't in it!"
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)
kairos12
(12,881 posts)
world wide wally
(21,757 posts)
ThoughtCriminal
(14,049 posts)
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and that is that the logic of capitalism insures that capitalism will dig its own grave. And Lenin was correct when he observed that capitalists would sell the left the rope with which the left would hang the capitalists.
The inherent and necessary contradictions and insanities of capitalism cannot be wished away - no more than Newton's laws of motion can be.
betterdemsonly
(1,967 posts)Not to mention the thread of robotics to the service industry worker, so those jobs will not be available either.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)A larger and larger group of fortysomethings and fiftysomethings, still young enough and vigorous enough to make trouble, and with nothing better to do after they've been discarded by the economy?
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)as long as there was a dime for them in it and there was somewhere on the planet that was safe for them to escape to. Probably somewhere near where the Bush Crime Family bought all that land down in South America.
Don't think for a minute they wouldn't welcome a die-off of 60-80% of the world's population. They would then return as Absolute Feudal Overlords.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)like "Stratos" in that Star Trek episode, "The Cloud Minders".
"Those that receive the rewards are totally separated from those who shoulder the burdens"
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)A slave populace serving and enriching them, free to die off, with no claims on their Royal Highnesses,
Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)
nichomachus This message was self-deleted by its author.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)The age discrimination law has always been inadequate. It is up to the plaintiff to PROVE discrimination. And that meant that one needed the personnel records of the business. Impossible to get and impossible to have a case when you had NO proof. My remedy was that age discrimination needed to be under Affirmative action or be classified as the same as discrimination based on race, religion or ethnic origin. And sex, and sexual orientation should also be included at the FEDERAL level.
What that means is the business or establishment must prove THEY ARE NOT discriminating. Under federal law the personnel records must be presented to the FEDERAL courts. If discrimination is found then a FEDERAL OVERSEER is assigned the company and the company or establishment is FORCED to address the situation and REMEDIES are assigned the FEDERAL court.
At DOL I encountered representatives of companies under FEDERAL COMPLIANCE ORDERS. They were forced to hire qualified discriminated classes.
daredtowork
(3,732 posts)Then the list should be distributed ro all Workforce Initiative Act projects, State employment departments, departments of rehabilitation - all the places that older people are seeking work.
I think this crisis is building already and placing pressure on disability resources since the older people have fallen into longterm unemployment, and the stress and crappy medical care tend to exacerbate the chronic problems that come with age.
Why is there no revolution? People are afraid to make trouble because it might hurt their chances of getting a job. Because they have bowed tothe pressure to conform, they also tend to project this standard on everyone else and secretly resent those who have "gotten away with" breaking free -- re: the "troublemakers", whistleblowers, kids with tattoos and body piercings, "whining" bloggers, etc. These are people who "don't get it".
The average older longterm unemployed person puts dignity before anything - even food on the table. They will keep going to employment programs and playing the game whether it is working for them or not. They will scramble for low key ways to pay their rent in the mean time. If they are lucky, their disabilities escalate quickly. If they can hold out thr 3+ years it takes to get SSI, they will have a fallback position. The other roads are more dire. Suicide is likely.
groundloop
(11,527 posts)Got laid off last year after over 15 years with the same company. An experienced engineer shouldn't have had much trouble finding a job (after all I keep hearing there's a shortage of us). In phone interview after phone interview everything went great then they'd ask some innocent sounding question to get a clue as to my age, after which the interview was abruptly halted and I never heard from them again. After 5 months of looking I finally landed a job which leaves a lot to be desired, but at least it pays the bills. I have to admit that I feel totally violated by this entire experience.
And yeah, hand me a torch.... I'm ready to revolt against our corporate overlords.
edhopper
(33,638 posts)but my work history leaves me out of almost any living wage paying job. I've been in the Arts my working life and if I am lucky I will get a job in the stock room of Costco.
It's bleak if you are over 50.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)They let him go a few months ago because they wanted someone younger (he's 52), although they didn't say that. He had a pretty good job with them and did very well. A friend hooked him up with another company where he would have been a good fit. He didn't get the job. The reason? Since he had worked at the same company for 30 years, he didn't have enough varied experience. They were looking for someone with a broader background.
He's still hopeful. I, who have been through the same thing, don't have the heart to tell him that he's never have a real, good-paying job again. No 35-year-old hiring manager is going to hire a 52-year-old person.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The 40 hour week should be 32. The overtime rate should be 2x.
Raising the minimum wage does nothing to solve that core problem.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It's really not that much longer before most of us will be obsolete before we are born.
So be smart and pick the right parents kids, that's going to make all the difference.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)hate our families just as much as Republicans do.
TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)They have been on the defensive in many ways since Reagan. Being involved politically where I live I see a huge money disadvantage. Every cycle my rep gets blasted with hug amounts of negative lit and other stuff. Won this time but not by as much as we hoped against a totally stupid candidate. And we lost the Senate by 800 votes where money and the churches made a big difference.
I agree that a lot of Dems have sold out. 2014 shows how money can buy elections and the corporate world and billionaires spent probably over $500 million on ads. I can understand the cynicism.
Another problem is that RW radio reigns across the land and you literally cannot drive anywhere and find an opposite voice. In my travels Fox news is on every where in every hotel, every truck stop et al. And we lost progressive radio in Denver a few months ago. A lot of progressive radio has been run off the air in major cities where it used to exist.
We have had Dems run on pro worker agendas and they get soundly beat.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)vkkv
(3,384 posts)I would expect that at some point the right wing money influence will hit rock bottom and a bit more socialism will prevail in the next 15-20 years.
But hey, we're all just predicting, right?
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)
hunter
(38,337 posts)... but I like to think I've still got a few economically disruptive surprises left in my pocket.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)causalities of our labor market realized they were, and are, casualties until it was over.
Tens of millions of our neighbors, and perhaps you, dear reader, were "dead men typing" for years before you woke up one day unemployed, and with what turned out to be no prospects ahead. And everyone around you was lying to you, for nothing more than some temporary benefit for themselves, many who you thought were on your side. But they wound up with the benefits, you got the shaft.
Some things have changed, but not the trend. And the liars are more numerous, skilled, and treacherous than ever.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)I have my own story too. It sounds very similar. I'm 60, and have given up on a job, just waiting to retire at 62. I see it happening all the time to people over 50. Finding jobs months later, at 1/4 to 1/2 pay.
I feel sorry for my kids, and all kids today.
As a side note, and not to bum anyone out, but I read the other day that 50% of our current jobs will be gone in 40 years. It's hard to fathom 50% unemployment. I'll be dead.
edhopper
(33,638 posts)Like tilling the fields on the Manor House land. Or looking after the Lord's hunting stock.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)Again, I feel sorry for all kids today. Anyone under 40 can have fun, mostly on your parents. After 40, it's all downhill. Damn, I'm depressed now.
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)I was pushed out of my job in my late 40's. It is a disgusting story, the firing was as dirty and as unjust as it gets. After 3 years of unemployment, intense job searching, study of job retraining in any field you care to consider while being over 50 years old with some health issues, I know I will never find another full-time job in my field (office management, administration, accounting).
I've made the necessary mental adjustment, mostly done my grieving, and my best adaptive response is to make the best of it and try to survive (and thrive). I'm spending my retirement savings to live on, I've cut expenses, I own my apartment. It could be worse. Even if I could get back into the rat race, which I can't, I hate capitalism, banks and finance, and the MBA mindset so much, I would never "fit" into the corporate environment anymore. I've seen too much bullshit. Retail, tutoring, art, writing, whatever, those are my best choices now.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)The story sounds familiar to many here. Unjust terminations, made easy by newer management to clean house. And it don't matter if you had perfect annual reviews for 10 years. Lies and deception practices are used to get you to quit. If you didn't, your job was eliminated. Corporate America is so corrupt in so many ways. I too could never fit in today's corporate environment. I tried in the last several years and had to quit or get terminated after they continually threw my ass under the bus. Note: This was contract work, as it's the only thing left. Full time jobs are few and far between.
And try to find a job at my age(60). It's not going to happen. Questions like "What year did you graduate from high school" was actually used during one of my interviews. My reply was, "Are you sure you want to ask me that question?" I didn't get the job even though it was a perfect interview, outside of that one question. Another tactic that was used was to get you in for the interview. Once in and they ask about your last job and you proudly give your 5 minute speech, they immediately dismiss you. A 5 minute interview? I've never been on a 5 minute interview, NEVER. They were only interested to see how old I was in person.
If it wasn't for the ACA, I'd really be screwed. Thank you President Obama. Yes, I too cut back on everything and I'm still in the hole every month. Once I make 62, we should be OK. I'm counting the days.
So imagine this happening at 40? You cannot retire, which make the situation ten times worse. The younger generation is screwed if Corporate America puts that target on your back at 40, instead of 55-60.
It's quite depressing thinking about it.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,654 posts)was originally owned by Swedes then sold to Brits. The Brits sold to American venture capitalists about a year and a half ago.
Their business model for staff is most definitely "youngest and cheapest we can find" coupled with "outsource whatever we can to India." Benefits are utter shite compared to what they used to be...well by any standards really. Not surprisingly, the work is turning to crap and their customers are extremely unhappy and looking for replacement systems.
Let's see. Experienced dedicated employees put out a product customers love and generate repeat business. Cheap ass labor churns out sub-par stuff customers are running away from in droves. Yes, I can certainly see why a business owner would prefer the latter model.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)I'm in that age group and while I surely would have trouble being hired as a stevedore, and I'm sure anecdotal horror stories are true, they after all are just that and the aggregate data show:
50+ have lowest UE rates by age group
http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea10.htm
Highest incomes by age group (to 55 - this goes in decades so next bracket hits many retirees)
https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/people/
And are not as a whole getting kicked off the labor force either, where our participation rate is increasing noticeably
http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_303.htm
Are individual seniors by the hundreds of thousands in dire straits in the job market? Undoubtedly. But as a group we are not.
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)TheMastersNemesis
(10,602 posts)I spent 24 years at DOL. In the 1990's dumping was epidemic and increasing. Statistics only tell part of the story about what is going on. Older workers are considered a net liability because of cost of salary and benefits. Health is also an issue. Most individuals over 40 begin to devote one or more physical ailments.
Cost analysis of employee expense reveals that an employee becomes a liability at 42 when you weigh all the costs and projected costs. In today's market corporate management seeks younger workers. I read the report at DOL many years ago and I doubt that formula has really changed.
I did not need statistical data to understand what what going on. Working with employers and job seekers revealed trends that labor stats do not fully reveal. I knew many years ago that we were headed for a "contract labor economy". Robert Reich just wrote an article that supports what was obvious and what employers indicated what they were up to.
You cannot depend the media or just plain statistics. The story they tell is incomplete at best. The thousand of job seekers that I interviewed in my 24 year career really only wanted one thing. They wanted job security with earnings potential. They did not want to be training continuously over their lifetime and job hopping evey 3 - 5 years. The average stay at a job was 36 months before the recession.
Also there are other statistical models that would be much better that the government does not use.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)She was doing her homework when I walked in and clearly did not want to help resolve my phone issue. I looked at her and replied, poorly trained or lazy, you pick which it is sweetie as I left the store.
