Message auto-removed

[Name removed]

[blkmusclmachine]

2. ,

,

[DeSwiss]

4. This is how ISIS got it's Senatorial sanctioning too.....

'I mean I had no idea McCain and Graham were going around selling ISIS to Kuwait, and Qatar and the Saudis.

- I believe John McCain went around loudly thanking god for providing the U.S. with these particular murderers as well.

Clearly Inhofe's a pussy......

K&R

[BainsBane]

6. The jig is up

The editor of Novaya Gazeta says he will be publishing a Russian strategy document drawn up months before Yanukovych fled Kiev for Moscowl.

Muratov said the document characterized then Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych as “a person without morals and willpower whose downfall must be expected at any moment.” Yanukovych fled Ukraine for Russia on Feb. 22, 2014.

Muratov said the Russian document appears to have been drafted between Feb. 4 and Feb. 15 last year. He said the overall strategy included plans on how to break Ukraine into automonmous sectors, immediately attaching now war-torn southeastern Ukraine to Moscow’s tax union, with a longer term plan for annexation.

The plan suggested “the main thrust should be Crimea and the Kharkhiv region, with the aim of initiating the annexation of the eastern regions.”

The strategy document also calls for a public relations campaign to justify Russia’s intervention. The newspaper did not release further details of the strategy at this point.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/02/21/257386/russian-news-report-ukraine-invasion.html#storylink=cpy

The Putin propaganda you all have been spinning to justify expansion of the Russian empire has been exposed as a lie. Being a nationalist and wanting to be free from Russian rule, which has controlled the Ukraine for most of the period since the 17th century, doesn't justify their being killed and their country taken. This effort to justify war is unconscionable, and now it has been exposed as a complete lie. Time to deal with the evidence and stop working to justify war on the Ukraine. Enough warmongering.

[Oilwellian]

7. Yes, the jig is up

There are neo-nazi militias being funded by the United States, and they are now on the border of Russia. Judging from history, I doubt that is a scenario Russia will allow to continue.

I would hardly call a Telegraph report "Putin propaganda."

[BainsBane]

9. Did you read the article about Novaya Gazeta?

Do you not care? Or is the desire to justify war and bloodshed just too irresistible that you can't resist spreading false propaganda for the Russian empire? The Telegraph article didn't say shit about US support for Russian forces. How about you read the Telegraph article you site as unvarnished truth? It says the Ukrainian rebels are funded by a Ukrainian billionaire, not the US. In fact, it doesn't even mention the US. Jesus Christ. What a load of shit.

Whatever happened to opposition to regime change? I guess it's okay if it's at the hands of Russia. If Ukrainians don't adopt political views you approve of, they deserve to die and be recolonized. What you have done is no different than if someone had looked at various factions in Iraq one year into the conflict and claimed the US was on the side of angels because of something or another the Sunni had done. When a country is invaded, all kinds of ugly shit is unleashed. The Novaya Gazeta article shows that Putin planned the invasion months before the government in Ukraine fell, and he planned on getting rid of Yanukovych himself. Instead he was brought down by popular protest. (Funny how the Russian document makes no mention of a US coup.) You don't care about the origins of the war, that it's part of Russia's empire building. You're too busy working to ensure it continues. You are warmongering for imperial control over a colonized people ruled by Russia since the 17th century, people Putin describes as racially inferior and unfit to govern themselves. And naturally you turn to a right wing publication, The Telegraph, to back charges (even though you clearly haven't bothered to read the article) because how else does one justify a right-wing quasi fascist like Putin without the support from the right-wing press?

I figured you all didn't realize you were being played to carry out Putin's propaganda campaign. Now we see you are eager participants in justifying Russia's subjugation of the Ukraine. What next? Poland, Uzbekistan? The National Front is gaining ground throughout Europe. Will you be supporting their annexation as well? The problem is of course that those fascist parties in Europe all support Putin, as water seeks its own level. Le Pen are big fans, which is entirely expected.

Many more Ukrainians will be killed, and there you are cheerleading on Putin's war that causes those deaths. Ignore the truth, for the flames of war must be fanned at all costs.

[MattSh]

8. I would expect DUers not to fall for propaganda designed to whip up another war...

but there it is.

After lies got us into Vietnam, Iraq 1 & 2, Grenada, and many others, I would have hoped at least DU wouldn't get fooled again. Looks like I was wrong about that.

But hey, those weren't real wars. War against Russia? Now that's a real war!

I also like how DUers go gaga over Russian sources when they confirm US war propaganda. Otherwise, it's Putins propaganda.



So let's see. The west has thoroughly broken Ukraine and Putin wants to pay to fix it. Do I have that correct? How does that benefit Russia?

[BainsBane]

10. I'm not the one mongering for war

quite the opposite. I'm denouncing the war mongering. Russia wants the Ukraine for partially economic and strategic interests (Crimea) but mainly because Putin is invested in rebuilding Russia to its former glory. There are many historians and Russia experts who address this issue, and it is apparent in Russian popular opinion. It's among the reasons that Stalin underwent a kind of redemption and popular resurgence after the fall of the USSR.

If you bothered to read the article I linked to, you would see that Novaya Gazeta is an independent paper, one of the few that dares to criticize the government. Well, I should say one of the few that remains in operation, whose owner is, I'm told, too well connected to wind up murdered.

I hope you aren't falling into the simplistic polemic that if I oppose war by Russia I must somehow want the US to invade the region? There is something known as moral conscience and consistency. I oppose empire, war, and colonialism, whether at the hands of the US or Russia. Some here work diligently to justify war at Russia's hands. Why they are so willing to abandon principle for support of the Great Russian empire is a question you will need to address to them.

The Ukraine falls within Russia's sphere of influence. There is little to nothing the US can do about the Ukraine. War is out of the question. The only consequences Putin faces are sanctions and a blow to his standing in the world, which is why this effort to justify his illegal annexation of a sovereign nation is so pernicious. It makes it easier for him to take the Ukraine and other countries that might follow. The Ukraine is not the first. He ordered the Russian army into Georgia in 2008. Public censure is one of the few ways such action can be countered, and people here are working to make sure he doesn't face that and his imperial enterprise continues unfettered. They are complicit in the very PR campaign that Putin planned months before Yanukovych fled Kiev.

[MattSh]

11. Silly me...

Although I have the equivalent of a real world PhD in this part of the world, I'm supposed to throw that out the window and accept a kindergartener's diploma because the US media and the State Department tell me so.

• Over 9 years living in Ukraine
• Read over 5000 articles, from over 100 sources, in whole or in part over the last year about this part of the word
• Every member of my household have had encounters with refugees from the war zone
• I've seen Nazis on numerous occasions (including this morning)

but none of that matters, I see. I'm supposed to ignore everything I see and hear and glom on to what sources in the USA tell me I should believe.

Unfortunately for them, I grew out of the following stage many years ago...



They're lying and they're lying their asses off...



[nationalize the fed]

13. +1

Today I learned...Somehow Microsoft is involved in this Ukraine thing
At least according to what looks like the most complete timeline I've seen so far

The complete historical timeline of how the US plotted & engineered the Coup in Kiev, starting in March 2013

Planning for the February 2014 Coup D'Etat in Kiev started in March 2013 (or earlier).

This amazing speech in Ukraine's Rada (Parliament) details how 300 people, under the direction of the US Embassy in Kiev, were to mobilize and manipulate social media in order to provoke protests that would lead to a Coup to oust Yanukovych and then start a Civil War... snip

MUST WATCH: Nov 2013 (pre-Maidan!): Ukraine Deputy has proof of USA staging civil war in Ukraine".

March 2013 on

Training and mobilizing of 300 people started in March 2013 (or earlier) under the direct supervision of the US Embassy in Kiev. This is the US Embassy's report of one of the camps held at Microsoft's Ukraine headquarters on March 1st and details a number of areas and methods within social media that were to be utilized to spread pro EU and pro US propaganda...

Complete Timeline: http://ian56.blogspot.in/2015/01/how-february-coup-in-kiev-was-plotted.html

[NuclearDem]

12. So, are you just going to bounce between getting banned at DU and DI?