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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan somebody explain to me.... and I have a degree in Justice Studies...what is probation about?
To me.... It's all about the $...
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notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)Highly recommend the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander.
http://newjimcrow.com/
sundevil2000
(92 posts)I agree 100%.
blueridge3210
(1,401 posts)Privatized, unfortunately, is all too often about the money as opposed to diverting offenders from the prison system.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)nt
blueridge3210
(1,401 posts)Depends on the state; generally county level probation is only for misdemeanors and/or local statutes. Quite often this has been privatized as the county does not want the cost of more employees. The concept of privatized is not the problem; the devil is in the details. Fees for supervision, classes, drug tests etc can impose a cost in excess of $1000 for a minor traffic infraction that would normally merit a fine of around $100. Allowing private companies to toll (stop time) on these cases only makes the problem worse; the companies usually pay nothing back to the county to incarcerate those who violate.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)the same money is involved because prisons mean jobs, suppliers to keep things running, construction costs, as well as cheap labor when prisoners are coerced/induced to "volunteer" to work inside and outside the walls.
blueridge3210
(1,401 posts)Valid point, but I think if you look at the total numbers the quantity of people under misdemeanor probation will exceed those in privately run prisons by at least an order of magnitude. Both are a serious issue that need careful attention.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,096 posts)...to confirm compliance with the law. It is a tool other than longer jail / prison terms. It has been extremely useful. As will all things in the whole wide world, nothing is perfect. But, certainly the cost to the state/city/county of probation/community custody is significant. There has been in recent years, in fact every time there are budget cuts, less and less types of crimes that require probation due to the cost. I would find it hard to believe that the state makes any money off of probation.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)Once a month meetings? To hear about the PO's wife and child ? And back surgery? And new snow plow? And exercise routine?
Evergreen Emerald
(13,096 posts)1. Burglarizing homes
2. Claims that drugs were the source of his problem, causing him to commit crimes.
3. Prison includes 1/2 the time usually required for prison and the rest on probation.
4. While in prison, drug treatment.
5. Upon release, transitional housing with more treatment/drug testing/ monitoring. At that time he is given job training/counseling.
6. After transitional housing, still on probation with monitoring...less and less as he complies.
7. If he screws up---back to prison/stricter guidelines etc.
Conviction for DUI
1. jail and upon release probation that includes treatment/alcohol testing/monitoring.
OR Deferred Prosecution: no jail / treatment monitoring.
1. If complied--charged dismissed.
2. If not, conviction/jail/release on probation with treatment /testing/monitoring.
Sexual Assault:
1. Conviction
2. Prison/jail (depending on specific charge)
3. Upon release monitored / treatment required/ restrictions required
sundevil2000
(92 posts)😀
Evergreen Emerald
(13,096 posts)You have some soul-searching to do. Perhaps you should be taking advantage of the opportunity and make needed life changes rather than rage about the system. If you are more interested in complaining than in retrospection, then you will be more likely to be one of the re-offenders.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)nt
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,729 posts)Probation is extremely helpful in cases of deferred prosecution where the prosecutor sits on the charges for a specified period of time, usually a year, and then doesn't file them if the person has stayed out of trouble. The person can then say he has never been arrested . except for jobs that don't require a security clearance. That's huge in a person's life.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)nt
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)sundevil2000
(92 posts)Stick to the question at hand...
What good does going in once a month to listen to PO's life stories do for me?
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Tell them you want somebody to follow you around 24-7.
What the hell is it you want?
sundevil2000
(92 posts)To not pay $ to this county....
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Pay it, or go back to jail.
Just wow
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Am I supposed to feel sorry for you?
Do you think probation should be changed because you don't like it? What I said are pretty much your options. Don't want probation? Don't want jail? Don't violate the law. Easy peasy.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)I don't like it cause it's a waste of time, money and resources.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Math saying, "I'll never use this" and not realizing until later it was about developing their critical and analytical skills...
Been out of HS for years.
You've missed the point.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)Tons of people violate the law. Some people get busted. Those are disproportionately poor people and/or people of color. Of those who do get busted, some people get harsher sentences. Those are disproportionately poor people and/or people of color.
These are facts.
These are systemic truths of our so-called justice system.
You want to be a jerk to one person about their situation, give them a hard time because they 'made bad choices' or some shit, fine, but you can't deny that many, many people get away with violating the law. You can't deny the systemic discrimination in our system.
"Justice" is not fair and equal in our society. That's a fact. If you want to actually learn about this rather than using a weak 'appeal to authority' argument, read the New Jim Crow.
If you don't, then go on with your badass authoritarian self.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)
I am fully aware of all of that.
There's no need to jump my shit about this. This particular poster thinks this is a waste of their time, blah blah. Where the fuck did I even come close to even implying the other things you are accusing me of? I have done nothing but support people of color here.
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)"Don't want probation? Don't want jail? Don't violate the law. Easy peasy."
That's what I was calling bullshit. Sorry if I went overboard or made it personal.
I haven't read this entire thread so I don't know the OP's whole story (or yours, for that matter). But the statement from you I quoted set me off a bit because it is commonly used to justify a lot of race and class based discrimination in our legal system.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)that the OP thinks their probation is unfair or whatever.
I am sorry I went off on you a bit. I have supported black people here always. The OP doesn't give much in the way of details.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)I did the crime.
My issue is that I GO IN ONCE A MONTH TO LISTEN TO MY PO'S LIFE STORIES!!!!
Not once has he asked about what is going on in MY life...not once!
So again, I ask....
haele
(15,212 posts)Honestly, I'd rather listen to a P.O. blather and waste two hours of my time than have one all up on my keister just looking for a reason to bust me.
Our former next-door neighbor's P.O. has (hopefully) stopped calling my husband every other month or so to find out if certain "cars" were parked on the street; according to our other neighbor, that neighbor's still on probation for being a gang member and dealing drugs.
We moved last July, and we got a call as late as January, even after telling the P.O. twice before that we no longer lived there.
The court system really want to send that guy back; which is sad, because of all his brothers and male cousins, he's the only one not currently in jail. So far as we could tell when we lived there, he was trying to put gang life behind him and make a go at a regular job and family life.
Haele
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)
HappyMe
(20,277 posts) 
JonLP24
(29,886 posts)but unless mentioned in this rapidly growing thread, there is a lot of judgmental & support for the system over a situation where we aren't aware of the circumstances.
While looking for misdemeanor courts & right to representation issues I came across...
The combination of lowered criminal penalties for marijuana offenses and severe resulting immigration consequences causes significant problems for noncitizens. First, as the penalties for marijuana offenses are lowered at the state and local levels, a defendant is less likely to have a right to appointment of a public defender when charged with possession of a small amount of marijuana. This situation implicates potential violations of the Sixth Amendment right to effective assistance of counsel in criminal proceedings, which has been held to cover affirmative advice on the immigration consequences of a criminal charge. Additionally, even with the assistance of a public defender, individuals may still be unable to avoid the harsh immigration consequences that often result from marijuana offenses. These harsh consequences violate our society’s understanding of proportionality of punishment in criminal law. Even though immigration law is traditionally insulated from proportionality considerations because of the plenary power doctrine, deportation for low-level marijuana offenses provides one example of why this doctrine should be reconsidered.
http://www.uclalawreview.org/?p=6417
If people become deported over 1st time marijuana violations where they didn't have a lawyer, you can only imagine what the fines look like and for most of bloated court docket, it does appear to be about $
JonLP24
(29,886 posts)FROM WORKERS TO VICTIMS: MILITARY MIGRANT LABOR
AND U.S. LAW
The post-2001 U.S. military fights ground wars using a labor force that is in
significant part offshored to foreign nationals, including workers imported from
third countries. Yet the United States continues to lack any coherent legal regime
for regulating the treatment of its migrant military workforce. This Part outlines
the predicament of TCN workers under U.S. law: Excluded from most labor
protection provisions, they are treated primarily as potential victims of human
trafficking. The trafficking framework, however, is not an adequate substitute for
labor law and in this case leaves the core employer-employee relationship effectively
beyond the review of U.S. courts.
A. Shutting Foreign Military Workers Out of U.S. Courts
The applicability of U.S. law to military bases overseas has long been a matter
of intense debate, especially in the ongoing disputes over the detention center
at Guantánamo Bay. Military commanders and contractor firms are the primary
entities exercising authority over military workers,67 but they do so in a situation
of significant jurisdictional uncertainty, since neither U.S. nor local laws apply in
their entirety. The debate over the applicability of U.S. law to overseas bases has
in significant part been informed by a near-exclusive focus on constitutional
rights and tort remedies.68 Overseas military bases are spaces saturated with other
legal regimes,69 including executive branch regulations and layers of statute and
contract that create limited grants of extraterritorial jurisdiction to courts within
the United States. The result is an uncertain patchwork that effectively accords
different rights to different categories of workers by nationality.
U.S. law applies to military contractors overseas only in limited instances,
thanks in significant part to the presumption against extraterritorial applicability.
70 Legislative enactments in recent years have extended criminal jurisdiction
over contractors in both military71 and civilian72 courts, regardless of nationality.
But many labor laws still do not apply extraterritorially, including to overseas bases.
These include the Service Contract Act, which establishes minimum wage
for government contractor employees;73 the Occupational Health and Safety
Act;74 the Fair Labor Standards Act;75 and the National Labor Relations Act.76
One category of labor law that does tend to apply extraterritorially is nondiscrimination
law, but only to U.S. citizens working for U.S. firms or companies controlled
by them. This includes Title VII of the Civil Rights Act,77 the Age Dis-
Discrimination in Employment Act,78 and the Americans with Disabilities Act.79
overseas, whereas the WHCA provides governmental compensation for harms
that result from hostile acts.82 Although the DBA and WHCA apply to contract
workers regardless of nationality, non-U.S. workers nevertheless face disadvantages
in availing of them. Both statutes allow the Secretary of Labor to commute
death and permanent disability benefits by 50 percent for non-U.S.
nationals and their survivors, presumably to account for cost-of-living differences
across different countries.83 Media reports indicate that non-U.S. workers are often
not informed of their compensation rights or lack realistic means to pursue
compensation from their home countries.84 One major problem is that DBA
claims must be filed with Department of Labor (DOL) offices inside the United
States; claims arising out of injuries and deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq, for example,
must be filed in New York.85 Citing “safety considerations,” DOL does
not even send mail to DBA claimants in Iraq.86 This creates major difficulties for
injured workers or their families overseas, who are far less likely to have access to
counsel with the expertise and commitment to pursue these claims.87 The Department
of Labor does not publish DBA statistics based on the nationality of
claimants, but a search reveals a relatively limited number of such claims from
non-U.S. workers in the administrative tribunals tasked with processing them.88
http://www.uclalawreview.org/?p=6348 - Offshoring the Army
While this went on for well over a decade, the US government had no problems finding foreigners to rendition or hold them without charges.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)I appreciate all on this thread who "get it."
This party is doomed if we don't.
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,729 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Society has determined that people with a conviction and sentence should receive some limited monitoring to make sure they've pulled their heads out of their asses and can comply with the very simple set of behaviors we've asked of them.
If your probation officer is lazy count yourself lucky that he's not all up in your shit and get on with your life without doing shit that gets you arrested. Staying out of jail is surprisingly easy.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)Thank you.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)imposed after you were convicted of an offense.
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,729 posts)That's the best possible sentence beside "not guilty" . It's even better than "adjudication withheld."
sundevil2000
(92 posts)They won't even let me transfer back home.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)You committed the crime in a "podunk mid West town". Why the hell would they let you go home?
sundevil2000
(92 posts)Are you posting on the right board?
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Work on getting transferred then. What do you want from me?
sundevil2000
(92 posts)Not worth the $ for a crooked lawyer in this town.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)and quit complaining.
Complaining won't get you anywhere. Jail and probation time will give you something to think about before you violate the law next time.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)nt
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I am a mom.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)nt
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)resemble those of teabaggers.
You offer nothing to the conversation. But you gloat obsessively.
"Ooh! Look! Someone got caught! Lemme rubs some salt in those wounds! Lemme pretend that our justice system doesn't target the poor and people of color! Lemme act like our profane incarceration/parole/probation rate isn't THROUGH THE ROOF."
You're transparent and your posts are shallow attempts to appear superior.
FAIL.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)self righteousness.
The OP is complaining about their PO. Nothing more.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)KKKarl Rove, is that you, Honey?
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,729 posts)He seems to have gotten you a bad deal?
DemocratSinceBirth
(101,729 posts)But it cost him a lot for a lawyer.
Bobbie Jo
(14,344 posts)sundevil2000
(92 posts)are already surfing the net, trying to dig stuff up.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Longer-term control without the expense of incarceration.
Why do you ask?
sundevil2000
(92 posts)Cause there is none of that. ...
leveymg
(36,418 posts)re-incarceration. Are you saying that doesn't happen?
sundevil2000
(92 posts)"They" show up in "their" in box...
JonLP24
(29,886 posts)I actually live here & have experience but don't have "supervised probation" experience.
This is a very pro prosecutor country though judge has a history for all the wrong reasons.
Judge Allows Ex-Minuteman Leader Chris Simcox to Represent Self, Trial Reset for March 16
A Maricopa County Superior Court Judge will allow former Minuteman leader Chris Simcox to represent himself during his upcoming trial on allegations that he molested two young girls, one his own daughter, in 2013.
During a pretrial hearing Monday morning in Phoenix, Judge Jose Padilla summarily granted Simcox's request, which had been filed February 12.
This offers the disturbing possibility that Simcox will be able to cross-examine his alleged victims, who were 6 and 5 at the time of the incidents.
Additionally, Simcox will be able to cross-examine other witnesses, such as a little girl whom he allegedly bribed with candy to see her panties, and his grown daughter by another marriage, who alleges Simcox touched her inappropriately when she was a teenager.
Oddly, none of these issues was discussed at Monday's status conference.
Following the hearing, I asked MCAO spokesman Jerry Cobb what the county attorney could do to protect these children from being cross-examined by the man who allegedly violated them.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2015/02/judge_allows_ex-minuteman_leader_chris_simcox_to_represent_self_trial_reset.php
While on principle, I don't oppose but hopefully intimidating your accusers will be closely monitored. There is also this.
Domestic violence advocate questions Judge's decision in Peoria murder-suicide
PEORIA , AZ -- On October 6, 2009 Dawn Axsom and her attorney pleaded with Judge Jose Padilla to allow her to leave Arizona with her two-year-old son, Xavier, but Judge Padilla denied the request.
According to court testimony, Axsom’s estranged boyfriend, 28-year-old Gabriel Schwartz, had been arrested twice for DUI, was unemployed, and had made two failed suicide attempts. This prompted Axsom to also file for an Order of Protection against Schwartz.
Judge Padilla granted Schwartz visitation rights, requiring a drug & alcohol and mental health evaluation to be completed within 60-days.
Two weeks after that court appearance, Dawn Axom and her mother Linda were found shot to death in their Peoria home, reportedly by Schwartz, who then turned the gun on himself.
Read more: http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Domestic-violence-advocate-questions-Judges-decision-in-Peoria-murder-suicide-65110047.html#ixzz3T3UfP6EY
The only reason I know his name is he had by far the lowest ratings I ever saw in the "Fairness" department on the Arizona Commission for Judicial Review but he may be a little too far to the rights of a suspected abusive father.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)Maricopa County is years ahead of this Mayberry town...
JonLP24
(29,886 posts)I do find it odd the only time I was strip searched for a temporary holding cell was a juvenile in Flagstaff. I was put into a holding cell in Maricopa county the same year on "suspicion" or any time as an adult - never strip searched. Mesa PD is pretty bad, the police chief the unions hated was fired well he gave a press conference after told not to in the context of Republican city council members calling for him to be fired.
Unions hated him for his reforms, saying the oath once a year, body cameras, firing a cop for DUI (who later killed himself which electrified union opposition), having DPS investigate a Phoenix officer involved rather than "self-investigate".
This is where corrupt Attorney Generals win state-wide elections. Misdemeanor courts are set-up to be inherently unfair though I don't how the rest of the US is regarding providing defenders over misdemeanors over where no jail-time is threatened but there is certainly probation involved for those who can't afford nor have confidence in representing himself. (Last time the prosecutor has hiding the fact he was prosecutor -- I said, I'd like to speak to an attorney regarding the options he was offering me. He said, "I'm a lawyer, you can ask me." He also asked me an incriminating question after I provided my signature which was odd.
padfun
(1,889 posts)You go to Tempe to play baseball, football or heavy drinking.
What university did you attend?
But I didn't grad. When I was there in 1979, there was a HUGE bar/dancing club that fit over 2000 and all you can drink for $10. It was on Apache just east of Rural Road. It was called Dooleys and it was quite a meat market.
I majored in heavy drinking.
Eventually I went to another university and got a degree in Computer Science.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)Whole new world....
JonLP24
(29,886 posts)Why It Might Be Time To Rethink The Rules Of Parole
Let’s say you’re 60 years old with a manslaughter conviction, newly released on parole. The conditions you’ve signed prohibit you from driving a car without permission, ban you from going out after curfew, and forbid you from drinking alcohol or going into a bar. You did a bad thing, no doubt about it. But today, after you’ve served your time, how strictly should you be managed?
“I don’t think everyone coming out of prison needs to be supervised,” said Brian Fischer, former commissioner of the New York State Department of Corrections and Community Supervision. In this hypothetical scenario, “the likelihood of recidivism is zero,” he said. “Why do we need to restrict him?”
Parole conditions vary widely from state to state and case to case. As states attempt to reduce their prison populations, and as the number of parolees grows — now up to more than 851,000 people nationally — advocates are increasingly concerned that parole rules can be too restrictive for the average parolee, making it too easy to end up behind bars again for technical violations.1 As states contend with the high cost of incarceration and use parole to cut costs, advocates are calling for consistency in how it’s deployed.
Some restrictions seem practical (“complying with all laws”), while others seem nearly impossible to follow (“abandon evil associates and ways”). Other times, they run counter to mainstream culture; states including Kansas, Kentucky and Hawaii prevent parolees from drinking alcohol and going into bars.2 Also, enforcement of these rules varies from parole agent to parole agent.
“Most of us could not live under the rules of parole because there are too many of them,” Fischer said.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-it-might-be-time-to-rethink-the-rules-of-parole/
sundevil2000
(92 posts)That's why our recidivism rate is high.
blueridge3210
(1,401 posts)based on the offense and performance while under supervision. Someone released on a Child Molestation will be under active supervision for the duration of their sentence; someone released for Trafficking ("Muling" quite often) may be placed on an inactive or "Self Report" system with much fewer restrictions. The "abandon evil associates and ways" is actually just good advice; most people under supervision were voluntarily in places or around people that were directly related to their offending.
JonLP24
(29,886 posts)“The parole agents have an enormous amount of discretion,” said William Burrell, former head of parole and probation in New Jersey who now consults counties around the country, including those in Pennsylvania, on parole reforms. Agents “literally could lock anyone up any given time because they are violating one or more condition.”
<snip>
Of course, each person and violation should be handled case by case, and they are. “Some of that is appropriate, but you want to have consistency,” said Burrell, the former New Jersey head of parole.
-----
Pennsylvania has seen a shift in alternatives & community based treatment. Over half were sent back over technical violations, the #1 reason was for moving from an approved residence but I'm glad they mention the amount of power, parolees sometimes become taken advantage of. The half-way home, employer, a threat to violate a parolee depends on the type of person in control of this power.
blueridge3210
(1,401 posts)as all technical violations are not the same. If paroling authorities are tasked with re-integrating the offender back into society, then they must have the ability to arrest violators for any offense if the case appears to be taking a bad turn. Said arrest can serve as a time out while alternatives to revocation (residential SA treatment; MH facility, etc) are located and applied.
The situations in PN and NJ appear to be more of institutional culture and/or management. IC is like the Titanic; it takes a lot of time and energy to change and you have to be willing and able to fire those who won't go along.
JonLP24
(29,886 posts)& technical violations & the necessary changed he mentioned regarding Pennsylvania which he also mentions.
The issues I mentioned which he didn't mention didn't take long for me to find. -- http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Parole-Officer-Extorts-Parolees-Report-123643639.html
I've heard a lot people talk about their "PO" and they ranged from very lenient, reasonable, oppressive, to manipulative. Now that they have a felony, a good chance they become part of the homeless population with the difficulties in finding housing or a job, they likely associate with other felons with the same issue & many people better relate & trust those within the system than those operating the system. They see a lot of the noble intentions for themselves & have a range of ticky tack violations in addition to the massive growing parole population since the 70s. One told me if he had to do everything all over again, he'd make sure not to get a felony because of issues he faces regarding housing & employment.
Oktober
(1,488 posts)... and as a transition period before full release back into society.
As other have mentioned, it is also a means to prevent someone from earning the status of having been incarcerated if they can keep their nose clean.
Overall the concept seems pretty sound. What's your issue?
sundevil2000
(92 posts)nt
Oktober
(1,488 posts)... for followup upon release from incarceration? or even as a means to reduce that time being served? or as a means to avoid it entirely?
edit: Just saw... Now it makes sense. You just don't like your probation. What did you do btw?
sundevil2000
(92 posts)nt
Oktober
(1,488 posts)I can empathize....
I don't like it whenever I am dealing with a punishment I've received either...
sundevil2000
(92 posts)just think it's a farce....
Oktober
(1,488 posts)Did you not commit the crime that you were incarcerated and then placed on probation for?
sundevil2000
(92 posts)Can you tell me how listening to my PO's life stories for an hour help me?
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)and gets the law somewhat out of your life.
I did 5 years on paper and thought it was bullshit to show up for 15 min once a month and give them money too.
But,if you gonna play,sometimes you gotta pay.Be glad you only have 4 months left.
Response to Go Vols (Reply #132)
Name removed Message auto-removed
treestar
(82,383 posts)And cheaper, for more minor offenders.
Fla_Democrat
(2,622 posts)to ask that question while you were getting that degree? 
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)
I took a look at what course are required for a justice degree at ASU. This should have been covered.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)You're not adding anything of value to this thread.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts) sundevil2000
(92 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 3, 2015, 09:13 AM - Edit history (1)
Why don't you tell me CreekDog....cause I'm sure you know all and only your posts matter...
Can you say pompous???
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)if you're going to say something to someone, don't complain when the same thing is said to you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6292197
Response to CreekDog (Reply #121)
Name removed Message auto-removed
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)You either believe that it's okay to tell people that their posts add no value or you believe that it's okay if you do it.
How you handle this will show us how hypocritical you are.
As for me, I don't think there's anything wrong with asking if a post has value, and I don't believe there's anything wrong with saying a post has no value if it doesn't appear to have any -especially posts with almost no content.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)Geez
Fla_Democrat
(2,622 posts)
I merely ask the question, because as you pointed out.....
.... and I have a degree in Justice Studies...
One would think that maybe you had a teacher/professor/instructor, that their very job was to make sure you understood the field you were studying.
I'm thinking my response, is not the only useless part of this discussion....
But, I hope you find answers, or enlightenment, or what ever best fits your needs in this field. Now, if you'll excuse me, I gotta mosey over to a car and truck forum I have book marked, and seek answers about a nagging question I have concerning the Pythagorean theorem.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you call them "pompous".
=======================================================
sundevil2000 (92 posts) 85. just stop
You're not adding anything of value to this thread.
========================================================
CreekDog (43,294 posts) 106. How much value did the thread have to begin with?
========================================================
sundevil2000 (92 posts) 113. i don't know
Why don't you tell me CreekDog....cause I'm sure you know all and only your posts matter...
Can you say pompous???
========================================================
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026291616#post113
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)It's another way to further disenfranchise people.
In TN, you have to pay $40 for a 5 minute visit with your probie, you can't leave the county without permission ( there are no jobs to be had in the county ) and there are all sorts of other ridiculous restrictions that make it nearly impossible for a person to become gainfully employed.
There are many on DU, as you have seen, who will do NOTHING to reduce the obscene numbers of people we have cycling through our very flawed, draconian justice system.
You see here that most Democrats are into the whole sick authoritarian approach, and I can say unequivocally that young people are disgusted with Democrats for that blind allegiance to injustice.
Most here are nice-looking older conservative types who don't get targeted by cops, so they haven't a frickin' clue.
They like having our future sitting in jail. It makes them swoon.
The millennials are disgusted with our party, and this thread shows one key reason why.
Good luck, and hope you get out of there soon.
JonLP24
(29,886 posts)You're absolutely right though while I didn't see any of the LEO fondlers in the recent Chicago police threads, they show up being very judgmental regarding a DU who has only admitted to probation & a fine, perhaps some visits as well though points out there is a little "supervision" & points to where he is prohibited to live.
Someone mentioned a suspended sentence, I got one myself and the prosecutor said to me was "don't get in trouble" for 1 year and the charge goes away. It all varies of estimated & actual bargaining power but in my case, the case was so week I talked him down from a $100 fine without a lawyer.
I'm also curious about the jurisdiction, there is surprisingly lot of faith when some counties & so heavily pro prosecution & dominated by politics that it is a farce --
If it truly is worse than Maricopa county than he has my sympathies.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)and the funny thing is, you're only on supervised probation here if you don't pay your court costs and fines. Once those fines are paid, you go "on paper" where you send in a report once a month.
So tell me it's not about money! They supervise you to make sure they know where to find you to collect!
Once you're all paid up, you're not monitored as closely.
It's such a ripoff of the already-poor, but you'll never get the authoritarian Dems here to admit it. "Jail" is a taint, even though "jail" catches a lot of very good, decent, hardworking people.
This is why I say I hope the millennials will end up starting a new party that overturns the justice system we have, the one that further impoverishes the impoverished while letting the true criminals run wild.
Democrats are too in love with the sick system we have, as evidenced by the posts on this thread.
I wouldn't mind typing a very long & detailed post but one time knocking on the wrong person's door at the wrong time suddenly I heard cops that arrived unexpectedly behind me (the police report however said I was locking behind me, hurriedly knocking as if I was desperate for someone to open up and let me inside but I nonchalantly walked by them in an apartment complex I assumed where there for unrelated reasons. asking me the same question I just asked, "Is --- here?" they asked "where is ---?" which was followed by several "We know you're involved, we are just waiting for you tell us the truth." I'm completely baffled & it was obviously a bluff because I had no idea what was about. Not til a month later when I got my police report at court did I learn what the context was about (they had no evidence against the 1 suspect on dispatch, 1 suspect mentioned by a witness" but he had a "ballpeen hammer" which was used to justify a "terry stop" which is an outer pat down which is allowed in interest of officer's protection.
Basically they asked me about 3 times if that was a "cigarette" in my upper pocket (I didn't realize I had weed because if I did, it would have already been smoked) that frustrated I broke it open to show tobacco inside but it was green instead.
Long story short, I decided to & encouraged by my public defender to fight it because it was an iffy stop. I liked him a lot, if there was to hire him in the future I would. Anyways, the same cop was the whole first witness thing before the actual trial. This is where the cop commits perjury to maintain the lie he put on the police that he simply said "give me the joint" which actually helps me out more. My favorite part was when my attorney was questioning on what area of the body where the highest probability of finding a weapon he mentioned a weapon could be on any part of the body, my attorney with average size of weapons he found before the impassioned "19 hijackers with a razor blade hijacked a plane and....." which my attorney responded, "I believe they were exacto knives but we'll agree to disagree -- I liked that he was better informed on the exact type of tool used
Long story short, a 15 was crossed out but still looked like a 1 so I missed a court date on the 5th, held at Maricopa County Jail during football season. After spending about a few hours in refrigerated courtside holding cells & a new public defender who looked like the stereotype of an expensive crooked attorney with the hair slicked back and the dark expensive looking suit I just wanted out of jail. If it wasn't football season I likely would have still fought it.
The point I wanted to get at is a judge asked if the terms was simply over previous plea agreements except with my information over it & I wondered why but I was fined about $1100 for a first time marijuana violation where a friend was fined just $500 for a first time offense.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)I've heard stories that would curl your hair. Not as bad as the death row issues in AL, ( one of my kids is an attorney for a non-profit that defends indigent prisoners in GA and AL; his job is very tough ) but it doesn't take much to get snagged by the system, and many plead out because they get threatened with time in prison if they don't plead to a higher charge.
For example, a Democratic DA here does this to the poorest of the poor in his county. Thinking about the people he and his sidekick impoverish and further disenfranchise is a sorrow. Yet, he can't figure out why none of the working class voters elected him judge in 2014.
The judges smile and go along; the public defenders smile and go along, looking over the heads of the poor as if they are no more than property to manipulate and from whom they extract their pounds of flesh.
It's a racket, as you've witnessed firsthand.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)I'm out of here in July.
I deserved the punishment...just think the system is worthless.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)and of people's potential.
But there are counties making a fortune off court costs and fines and such, and they set you up during probation as a little potential ATM.
Screw up by breaking one of the ridiculous rules and you dispense more cash!
Don't you love being a trapped, human money-dispenser?
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)Reality, of course, is totally different. Probation is a useful tool with some people and a waste of resources with others. Most municipalities can't afford to incarcerate people, so they put them on probation and charge them as much as they can.
It's difficult to refuse probation (on behalf of a client, I've tried), so my advice would be co-operate, keep your head down, and move to expunge the conviction, if legally permitted in the state where you're on probation, as soon as you can.
However idealistic the concept of probation was originally, today it's a situation of money extraction and weak supervision. I used to work with a small state program that offered intense, personal supervision for people released into the community. It had a very low recidivism rate. Generally, the public isn't willing to put the necessary money or manpower into making probation a useful tool.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)after they are formally released.
It is about re-arresting people for alleged or actual violations
It is about jailing some people, mainly minorities and poor people of all colors while billionaire bankers are further rewarded
It is about the "prison-industrial complex"
It is about continuing the legacy of slavery under a new name(see link herehttp://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/davisprison.html
It is about denial of the franchise to ex-prisoners,(see link here)http://www.866ourvote.org/issues/felony-convictions
and it is always about money.
Hope life treats you better when you get out.
sundevil2000
(92 posts)I learned my lesson.
drray23
(8,653 posts)for people to go back to jail. This is so draconian that it is very easy for people under probation to be found in violation and thrown back in jail. More money for the system. If a probation officer wants you back in jail, they wont have any problems to make it happen.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Initially it allowed the "state" to get get their blood money from those who couldn't afford payment in full upfront.
It now has the added feature of allowing the wealthy to avoid prison time.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It is a wonderful yet basic system for monitoring and rehabilitating those who have caused harm to society in some way. Probation needs to be enhanced and more people need to be in some for of program(probation) than in jail. Sick of seeing so many non-violent people sleeping in jail.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,674 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Response to CreekDog (Reply #111)
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CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and who digs them up? MIRT members.
Response to CreekDog (Reply #120)
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CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Well, not to the question, but great answer. 
Kali
(56,704 posts)and other "anti-social" behavior. He may be more observant than you think while he talks about himself.
I don't know what the requirements for your meetings are, but it occurred to me he might actually be paying attention.
Response to Kali (Reply #112)
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Renew Deal
(84,771 posts)Call your lawyer and ask him to trade your 4 months on probation for 1 month in jail because you don't feel that you are benefitting from probation. You want to get your money's worth and I don't blame you.
You'll be done 3 months sooner and it will ease your stress.
If that doesn't work for you, just suck it up for the next few months and be thankful you're not locked up. Also, tell you're probation officer you're bored or whatever and ask him to help you find work or something to do. You'll get through it if you stay positive.
Here's a crazy idea. Take a class at a community college. Or join the community gardening group. That way you are productive. Good luck.
Response to Renew Deal (Reply #118)
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Renew Deal
(84,771 posts)than the alternative.
Response to Renew Deal (Reply #125)
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LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)You seem to be applying a personal peccadillo of your own parole office onto the system as a whole...
Response to LanternWaste (Reply #127)
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phil89
(1,043 posts)anyone here could answer your question? You're obviously angry that you got caught, probably endangering people, and you don't want the rules to apply to you. I'm glad you got caught and are on probation, and it's amusing that you pretend to want to get something useful out of time with your PO, as if there is any scenario in which you wouldn't be complaining.
Response to phil89 (Reply #130)
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MineralMan
(150,898 posts)your question. Apparently, you are on probation for something you did, and you're annoyed that the P.O. talks about his own life when you have your regular meetings.
Since I have no idea why you're on probation, nor anything else about your situation, your question simply doesn't have an answer I can offer. I guess you're stuck with listening to your P.O. from time to time until the term of your probation is over. You don't like doing that, and I can't think of any way to help you change the situation.
So, what, exactly, did you want from this thread?
Response to sundevil2000 (Original post)
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