It is possible to still be willing to vote for Obama AND still think he has been a disappointment!

[Logical]

I will vote for Obama, no doubt I will. I will hold my nose and do it, but I will vote for Obama.

Why is this concept so hard for many DU members to understand?

Since this GD and GDP has merged it seems like a some posters think they need to defend everything Obama does and any complaint has to be attacked with a list of accomplishments or a quote of "The you must want the GOP to be elected". They seem to think even the DISCUSSION of things Obama has done wrong should be banned.

Lets make this clear to those DU Members......

1. Some of us think Obama has been a disappointment. He has not been the progressive leader we wanted and expected.
2. Yes, Obama has been better than Newt or Romney or McCain would have been.
3. We will still HOLD OUR NOSE and vote for him! Disappointed, but still vote for him!
4. We will vote for him because ANY GOP candidate would be 100 times worse than Obama!

Carry on!

[hifiguy]

1. I concur 100%.

The alternatives are neither plausible nor tolerable. That doesn't mean I have to feel good about voting for Obama.

[tnlurker]

2. Yes

[Autumn]

3. Agree 100%

that's where I stand.

[quinnox]

4. let's hope so

otherwise Obama doesn't have a chance in hell of being re-elected.

[tridim]

5. Sure, it's even possible for Republicans to vote for Obama.

He is light-years better than his competition.

[Autumn Colors]

6. I agree with everything you said, plus this:

I wish someone more liberal would primary him. This wish doesn't negate anything said in the original post. I also know that any primary challenger would probably not get the nomination.

I wish for this because:

1) We would have televised Democratic debates and thus have more liberal views expressed on TV during those debates. Who knows, it might open a few people's eyes in the process.

2) Even though I would vote for the Democratic candidate in the general election, I could cast my vote in the primary for the liberal challenger to make a statement .... a statement to Pres. Obama that I am one voter (perhaps one of many) who, if given the choice of him or someone more liberal, I would choose "more liberal".

EDIT: Before anyone shows up with the typical "and WHO would you have primary him?" question, I have no one in mind. I'm just stating a wish.

[theaocp]

10. Interesting idea to have more liberal ideas on the teevee.

As the crazies back themselves into an ever-shrinking corner of ideology, the unthinking masses of pundits and 'Muricans associate anything NOT batshit insane as liberal. This gives too much opportunity to paint liberalism with a broad brush of dislike. Thanks for the idea!

[MjolnirTime]

14. You just don't comprehend the damage a Primary would do to our chances in 2012.

Can't make you understand if you don't want to.

[Autumn Colors]

29. Not trying to understand....

Sorry if that upsets you, but I want the conversation to move to the LEFT ... any way... any how. Obama has been moving to the right. To do NOTHING to get liberal viewpoints out there in the conversation will only make the status quo continue or move FURTHER to the right.

YOU just don't seem to comprehend the anger and disapppointment and how FED UP some of us are with Obama.

And to quote you: "Can't make YOU understand if you don't want to".

[Scuba]

37. +1

[Vanje]

75. I agree , Autumn Colors.

What I wouldn't give to see Obama deliberately court the left a little.

[moriah]

77. Any way, any how? Even if it means we damage our candidate so badly they lose the general?

Is he Blanche Lincoln?

Was making her lose the seat to John Boozman worth the extra leftist conversation in Arkansas?

Obviously not since now instead of having my letters answered by a Democratic senator, I get them answered by a rabid religious conservative who would rather let women die than make Catholic hospitals save the only life that can be saved in cases of septic miscarriage with a living fetus who absolutely cannot survive outside the womb.

[RBInMaine]

42. "primary him...." yawn... And just what purist ultra liberal could actually win? Get real.

[paulk]

47. "purist ultra liberal"

First off, the post you are responding to comes right out and says that there is no expectation that a primary opponent would win. the whole idea is to attempt to move the conversation to the left, to indicate to Obama and the Democratic Party leadership that there is a lot of dissatisfaction out there with the direction of both Obama and the Democratic Party as a whole. It doesn't have to be coming from your strawman "purist ultra liberal" crap, either. That comment is just the usual brand of denigration that turned GD/P into such a pile of shit and is well on it's way to doing the same here.

It's almost as if posters like you are intentionally trying to split the Democratic Party.

Strange, that.

[Creideiki]

55. True. Anyone to the Left of Attila the Hun likely wouldn't get the Democratic nomination

Primarying him wouldn't work. The only thing that would have worked was if the man had enough decency to step down and announce that he wasn't running again.

[Autumn Colors]

57. I SAID I would not expect anyone to "win"

The purpose would be to have televised debates so that liberal views would be expressed on TV.

No challenger, no debates ....

I also included in my post that I expected someone to show up and say something like you just did. I have no one particular in mind.

Did you not read my post and only looked at the subject line?

Purpose: To HAVE DEBATES ON TV .... without any expectation of winning the nomination at all.

Try learning to read or try opening the post and commenting on the content instead of just the subject line.

[bluerum]

7. Is it possible? Of couse. Possible and likely.

If you walked from every job and relationship everytime you felt disappointment you would be doing a lot of walking.

[RBInMaine]

43. Thanks for speaking truth to the unending whiner crowd. They really need to grow up.

[Autumn Colors]

58. Whether you consider me "grown up" or not.... I vote

I'm entitled to my opinion, even if someone else labels it "whining".

I vote in EVERY election - therefore I'm entitled to my opinion.... to HAVE one and to EXPRESS it. Whether you agree with it, call it whining or unrealistic is not my concern.

Some of us HATE the direction this country and government is going in.

Freedom of speech is my right.

That you call my practicing that right "whining" and then post a knee-jerk reaction that anyone without an "acceptable" opinion needs to "grow up" is more of a sign that YOU are the one who needs to "grow up".

[bluerum]

69. I think that we are in agreement - it is possible to

be disappointed in someone but still vote for them. Voicing an opinion is optional.

[zbdent]

8. I agree ... it's weird ... there were

62040610 (2004) and 50456002 (2000) people who voted for George W. Bush, presumably the same 50456002 that voted in 2000 voted for him in 2004, and yet ...

It's hard to find any "conservatives" or TEAhadists who ever voted for Dumbya ...

[asjr]

9. If I had any idea of holding my nose and voting

for Obama the thought is immediately dispelled by thinking of McCain and Palin who could have been in charge.

[dmosh42]

11. I agree, but most important to focus on control of Congress....

to control the flow of legislation. A president who doesn't have much conviction can't go astray too much if no 'wacko' right wing legislation gets to his desk!

[Autumn Colors]

59. Yes - I agree with this 100%

That's why it's important that people vote and don't sit at home. Voting in a more liberal-leaning Congress is key as well as state and local level elections.

I will be soooo happy to cast my vote for Chris Murphy in this election so he can replace Lieberman that this will more than make up for having to hold my nose to vote for Obama.

[dmosh42]

64. Yeah, replacing Lieberman would be a big step!

[tledford]

12. I'm very disappointed but won't even have to hold my nose to vote for President Obama.

The entire system and both parties are beyond repair at this point. The government is wholly controlled by the 1%.

But today's Republican Party is EXACTLY in the same place as was Mussolini's Partito Nazionale Fascista while today's Democratic Party is only slightly to the right of the Republican Party of forty years ago.

It will be much easier (and will probably only take 10 - 20 years versus 50 - 75 years) to achieve a just political system in the US under a Democratic administration than a Republican one. In and of itself this is an excellent reason to vote for President Obama in 2012 despite any disappointment.

[MjolnirTime]

13. As long as you vote Obama, I don't mind the bitching.

[Logical]

36. Thanks for that! N-t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

15. Yes

However, it would probably be more helpful for people IMHO to keep some of those reservations private than air them out quite so publicly. I'm not suggesting that people have to gush over him or act like he's the Messiah or anything like that but it would probably be more helpful for Obama's re-election prospects to spend more time pointing out his successes (even if you don't think that they were perfect, he did get some things accomplished that can be built on later) and attacking the Republicans and, more importantly embrace of the extremist Tea Party ideology than constantly bemoaning what you feel are Obama's betrayals, disappointments, etc. The Republicans didn't talk George W. Bush down when he was running for re-election- even though I'm sure some of them had some misgivings about him- and it's not going to help Obama's re-election prospects to spend a lot of time airing all of our grievances against him and making it seem like a "lesser of two evils" situation (when that is not really even what it is IMHO). It certainly is NOT going to help with GOTV and/or enthusiasm. We've got the more solid, intelligent, and "adult" person on our side-even if we don't agree with him 100% of the time. We need to be proud/thankful for that and make sure people understand that IMHO! At any rate, Congress IMHO is really going to be the key to getting what we want in terms of legislation. Having a completely Republican-controlled Congress and/or WH is NOT going to help advance a more progressive 99%-focused agenda AT ALL!

[Autumn Colors]

60. Yes, wouldn't want anyone saying anything out of lockstep, would we?

Having a president who kept or at least fought for things he promised before being elected would have helped GOTV and "enthusiasm".

Telling people not to express their views if they don't meet with the party line is what today's Republicans do. You sure you want to adopt that stance, too?

[cowcommander]

16. It sucks having to vote this way, makes our government look like a bad joke of a democracy

Even the Iraqis have more freedom in us in voting a political party that represents them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_parliamentary_election,_2010

[coalition_unwilling]

17. There are times when voting the lesser of two evils is not a cop-out but a

civic duty. This is one of those times, I believe. I will also be holding my nose and voting for Obama. The alternative is too terrifying and horrifying to contemplate.

In my mind, I'm not so much voting "for Obama" as I am voting "against Repuke sociopathy."

[Logical]

25. I agree. It is a civic duty. Anything is better than any GOP president.

[Old and In the Way]

18. Absolutely.

What makes you think that any supporter of Obama doesn't have issues with some of his policies and compromises? I certainly do. I just think we need to start changing Congress - that is the key to making a progressive agenda possible.

[PotatoChip]

19. I totally agree

Yes I'm disapointed, but I'm definately voting for him. I don't even want to think about the horror of having a President Gingrich, Perry, Bachmann, ect... basically any one of those lunatics.

Even Romney (who at least appears to be sane) would be a nightmare. That is what we could end up with if too many of us on the left demand absolute perfection w/our votes.

-just my 2 cents fwiw.

[99Forever]

20. I have to agree...

.. I have a large case of buyers remorse, but fully understand that any of the parade clown car drivers have zero business at the wheel of our Nation. Our "system" really, REALLY sucks pondscum.

[think]

21. I still plan to vote for Obama but any donations will go to re-elect Alan Grayson and

other progressive candidates. My last investment in Obama isn't paying the dividends I thought it would....

[Logical]

26. Same with me. I donated $2000 last time. Will spread it around this time.

[CakeGrrl]

22. Why do you think you're misunderstood?

You've made your disappointment clear numerous times.

Is one of those pesky 'loyal followers' trying to convert you?

[Logical]

24. LOL.....you never try to convert. Just attack every Obama complaint.

[BlueIris]

23. Of course. The best I can get to at this point is: Epic fail. But I don't want President Paul.

Then it's not exactly a hard choice. The rest of it is brutally hard, though. Particularly because I feel like I will be validating his failures with my vote. Which is actually how I felt about it last time. I further think that for the most part continuing to support Democratic candidates for office is now a crap shoot. So it will be impossible for me to feel good about voting for their nominee next year, even along partisan lines.

[Mopar151]

27. Yep-R!

Showed up for work every day, SOBER. Has yet to appear in public in a "Mission Accomplished" codpeice.

[JoePhilly]

28. As long as you vote for Obama and / or against the insane GOP alternative ...

I don't care which body part you hold while doing so.

But ... call him a "secret republican" ... say he is "just like Bush" ... and the discussion will be different.

[ClassWarrior]

62. What about when people make legitimate criticisms of him, and they're treated as though...

...they called him a "secret republican" and said he's "just like Bush?" What about that?

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

67. No answer?

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

70. Didn't think so.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

78. .

[FarLeftFist]

30. Are you really going to hold your nose while you vote?!

[Logical]

35. Maybe, in silent protest!

[Creideiki]

41. Likely. And I'll ask the poll judges for a barf bucket afterward.

The man is JAFC. The fact that the Republicans are lunatics doesn't mean that the Democratic Candidate is "good".

Fortunately, Malia and Sasha are now part of the lucky sperm club. They'll never suffer through any of the hurt that their father is inflicting on the rest of us.

[Vanje]

76. Yes.

REally

[sendero]

31. You should vote..

... for who you want. I'm not to enamored with Obama but I'd never try to convince anyone to not vote for him. There are no good choices IMHO, and not only that, the result of your choice will be approximately null whoever is elected.

[Texasgal]

32. I get so confused

as to why so many du'ers think that Obama voters are complete 100% DO OR DIE Obama supporters???

I mean really, thank you for posting the obvious.

I support Obama. am I happy with 100% of what he has done? NO. Will I vote for him? Umm hello.. YES!

[colsohlibgal]

33. Yes And Yes But It's Getting Old

I want to get back to voting for someone not against someone.

Let's face it, until we get money out of the political process no real progressive stands a ghost's chance of getting nominated.

[Snarkoleptic]

34. For the wobbly legged who still can't decide...

the SCOTUS should seal the deal.
Do you really want to see another RW nutjob confirmed?
There's a high probability that there will be at least one SCOTUS retirement and unimaginable damage will occur if we don't reelect Obama.

...and you're still pissed you didn't get a pony...FFS!

[treestar]

38. Yes.

Though I'd hate to be a person so demanding of the world as to be disappointed in Obama. If that spreads to all facets of life, that's going to be one unhappy, never-satisfied, unfulfilled, fault-finding person who can't enjoy or appreciate much.

[RBInMaine]

40. Thank you so much for speaking truth to endless whining and unrealistic expectations.

[Logical]

46. LOL....a little dramatic? I am not depressed and do not kick my dog because...

Obama has been a disappointment. But I learned not o be so gullible.
Maybe you can learn not to take Obama complaints so personal!

[treestar]

50. If you understood how the government worked and appreciated that

Then you would never be disappointed in any Democratic President.

What else are you disappointed in? Did your dog get trained fast enough? Does your dog's vet ever make a mistake? I bet you've found fault with that vet at least once.

In what other ways have you been cheated?

[Logical]

53. I agree, I was stupid to believe his campaign promises. I agree with you on that one. Never again.

[TheKentuckian]

68. The post is so extremely partisan as to be silly.

Some of the most expert in the mechanics of our government both academically and operationally have expressed grave disappointment throughout the history of our party.

That sentiment implies a willful lack of introspection, principles, and honesty. Not to mention an innate state of unaccountability that can only be rivaled by god-kings.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Anyone who claims their sort of person is 'sanctified' and others unworthy is a

disappointment to any one who stands for full equality for all, those who do not wish to declare 'this minority' or 'that minority' to lack human elements others possess in the name of religion particularly in a secular legal context, where words like 'sanctity' are without meaning of any kind.
Prejudice against any minority group is always disappointing in anyone. I was raised to see such discrimination as a horrible wrong, and it is just that.

[RBInMaine]

39. Well, he's passed the most PROGRESSIVE legislation since LBJ. If you are so disappointed with that

then go run from President yourself and do better. Who do you want? Kucinich? Sanders? Sherrod Brown?
They must be a disappointment too since they all voted for the healthcare bill (which was very progressive considering the status quo). Why not count your blessings for a change. Now there's a thought.

[Logical]

44. So Obama has met all your expectations from his campaign? Then...

You and I heard a lot different campaign! Candidate obama was a lot different than president Obama has been. This compromise crap and starting in the middle on many issues has been a failure. You are one of the defenders who seem to take it every Obama complaint personal. I do not understand that.

[treestar]

51. No one is taking it personally.

You have not proved that.

Why would you allow a campaign to create the expectations you must have created? You know what the powers of the Presidency are, presumably.

What expectations did you have of your Congressperson and Senators? Have they lived up to them 100%? Oh probably you don't even know, since you focused on an all powerful President you invented in your mind.

There must be so many other things you are disappointed in!

[Logical]

52. I am disappointed that so many people worked so hard to elect Obama in 2008 and he....

started in the middle of most issues and was gullible as hell when it came of compromise.

You do not realize how BIG 2008 was. How many people worked their asses off for a "Fighter" and someone who said "They would change Washington". Nothing has changed. Washington is still broken. And Obama, walking shoes and all, did not fight but tried to compromise.

[Union Scribe]

66. Are you joking?

Not taking it personally? You responded to a very, very mild criticism of Obama by telling the OP that any disappointment in Obama means they're defective as a human being and incapable of happiness or gratitude. That is what is wrong with many of Obama's ardent supporters here: you take it so incredibly far beyond political differences and attack people in the most personal ways you can imagine. That's why it's so impossible to discuss anything with you.

[ClassWarrior]

73. psssttt...

They're not "ardent supporters."

NGU.

[ananda]

45. Lesser of evils...

So yes.

[WilliamPitt]

49. Yup

[Feron]

54. If Obama wants my vote then he'll have to earn it.

There's no reason for Obama to care about your issues if you'll vote for him regardless. And I refuse to reward failure.

People need to start looking at candidates rather than the letter behind the name. Partisanship is a big part of the reason we are in the mess we are in now. That and treating politicians like celebrities.

I plan on voting third party in 2012. Better to vote for someone who represents my interests than throw it away on someone who degrades civil liberties and shills for Wall Street.

And if Obama loses then he has only himself to blame.

[DutchLiberal]

56. If you vote for him, you vote for indefinite detention and extrajudicial executions...

But if you don't vote for him, people will tell you Republicans will introduce fascism to America!

What do they mean, "introduce"...?

[ClassWarrior]

61. It's not hard to understand.

There are people who want to see Dems divided. They pretend it's hard to understand.



NGU.

[Xicano]

63. A Vote For Obama = A Vote For Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Bank of America, etc....

A Vote for the wingnut = A vote for Exxon, Shell, Chevron, etc....

Either way you look at it the U.S. elections are a Wall Street event to see which 1%'ers are going to be calling the shots and benefit the most.

Or in other words we the 99% don't have a candidate to vote for.

n/t

[suivezlargent]

65. America's Choice come November will be

Person A with a D after their name totally beholden to corporate interests

Person B with an R after their name totally beholden to corporate interests

The hard part will be choosing the one who will throw us peasants a few more crumbs.

[JTFrog]

71. Lol.

Several versions of this post have been posted several times a day everyday since DU3 has gone live.

The only thing clear is that posters can now get away with these type of divisive call-out threads. "Some posters". "They". "Those DU Members". "Us". "We".

What the fuck ever.

Seriously.

Carry on.

[MineralMan]

72. Of course it's possible.

I'm not happy with everything that has happened in his first term. Frankly, the presidency is not my number one concern in 2012. Congress and my state legislature is. If enough Democrats turn out to retake Congress and the MN state legislature, Obama will be re-elected. If not, we're all really screwed. So, I'll be back out walking my precinct again, turning out voters for DFL-endorsed candidates for Congress and the state legislature. Obama has plenty of money to run his own campaign.

[Vanje]

74. I surely hope so! nt