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sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:05 PM Mar 2015

Black Women Are Beaten, Sexually Assaulted and Killed By Police. Why Don't We Talk About It?

The degradation and sexual exploitation of black women’s work dates back to slavery.

But what of Aiyana Stanley-Jones, Yvette Smith, and Rekia Boyd? Unless you’re looking for their names, you won’t find their stories—all Black women shot and killed by police officers in the past five years—featured in the discourse surrounding police reform. While media attention has focused on the tragic loss of Black cisgender men, it seems like we’ve forgotten that Black women are subjected to the same state-sponsored violence. Black women are also on the front lines of #BlackLivesMatter protests across the country. They are holding it down. They are daughters in the spirit of the Black women who fought in the Black liberation and feminist movements of the past, whose contributions have been minimized in the interest of maintaining the patriarchal, white supremacist status quo. Fannie Lou Hamer didn’t see the narrative on police brutality shift during her time on this earth, but these Black women are intent on ensuring the narrative is shifted during their own.

The degradation and sexual exploitation of Black women’s work dates back to slavery—it’s an American tradition at this point. Even after slavery was outlawed, rape was used as a means of reminding Black women of their place, just as lynching was used against Black men (though history rarely mentions this legacy of the Jim Crow era).

The sexism of larger society was reproduced in Black liberation movements, which limited the roles women were allowed to play. While Black men dominated leadership roles, Black women were expected to remain behind the scenes. When Black women activists were made national icons, it was in the stereotypical role ascribed to Black womanhood: stoic, long-suffering motherly figures. Rosa Parks is popularly remembered as a humble, quiet seamstress who spontaneously decided to stand up to her oppressors. In fact, she was a fiery activist who was branch secretary in the Montgomery chapter of the NAACP. Parks, a victim of attempted rape herself, investigated sexual violence targeted at Black women as one of her duties as branch secretary. Yet Parks’s legacy was sanitized in order to maintain her “respectability” and to minimize any contributions to the movement that fell outside of her expected social role. Parks was somewhat complicit in the sanitization of her legacy to ensure the story of the civil rights movement and her involvement in it remained consistent. To speak out against it at the time would have distracted from the focus of the movement (racism) and also implicated its leaders in sexist oppression. Her own needs were put aside in favor of the greater good.

In both the feminist and Black liberation movements of the 1960s and ’70s, the need for Black women to remain behind the scenes was crucial to courting public favor with white America. In both movements, Black women were told they would have to wait until the goals of the movement were reached before their specific needs would be addressed.


Read it all: http://www.alternet.org/activism/black-women-are-beaten-sexually-assaulted-and-killed-police-why-dont-we-talk-about-it#.VPJHMo5v-oQ.facebook

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Black Women Are Beaten, Sexually Assaulted and Killed By Police. Why Don't We Talk About It? (Original Post) sheshe2 Mar 2015 OP
It always reminds me of a few years ago when one white woman in DC was missing randys1 Mar 2015 #1
Well, cwydro Mar 2015 #2
National TV? I dont watch anything other than MSNBC so I may have missed it. randys1 Mar 2015 #3
Yes, it was played on CNN daily. cwydro Mar 2015 #8
Race baiting LOL randys1 Mar 2015 #10
LOL all you want. cwydro Mar 2015 #13
Spoken by a white person? randys1 Mar 2015 #14
I'm not going to play your game hon. cwydro Mar 2015 #17
I simply asked if you were white? I am, and I know that I dont know randys1 Mar 2015 #19
"It's economic status that counts in this country." Number23 Mar 2015 #44
Wait! Wait and wait and wait. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #86
That's what we're always told. Which is why so many of us started our own things that we didn't have Number23 Mar 2015 #88
You! sheshe2 Mar 2015 #93
Well.... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #99
The fact that we can point to one, two, or three instances is indicative of the problem tishaLA Mar 2015 #6
No, I am a race baiter, though LOL randys1 Mar 2015 #11
I wasn't speaking directly to you randy. cwydro Mar 2015 #15
I dont care, I have thick skin, but maybe you should ask a POC about your hypothesis randys1 Mar 2015 #16
I am not a "POC" as you call it. Oh wait, cwydro Mar 2015 #22
I really wish I could find the post 1SBM wrote last week tishaLA Mar 2015 #27
Um cwydro Mar 2015 #30
You also have to include the first part of that sentence tishaLA Mar 2015 #31
It still didn't make sense. cwydro Mar 2015 #33
I'll remove the clauses that are causing the problem tishaLA Mar 2015 #34
Actually, I am the OP. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #48
Sorry that I pissed you off. cwydro Mar 2015 #55
Poor women of any color are not counted as important. cwydro Mar 2015 #12
That may be true, but the brutality visited upon African American women, tishaLA Mar 2015 #20
You must not know many Latina cwydro Mar 2015 #24
o, I do. But thanks for not responding to what I wrote. tishaLA Mar 2015 #26
Not sure exactly what you want me to respond to. cwydro Mar 2015 #28
Again, nobody is denying gender discrimination tishaLA Mar 2015 #32
Now see ? cwydro Mar 2015 #35
I never mentioned sympathy and I tried not to use the word oppression tishaLA Mar 2015 #39
I'd like to meet them. bravenak Mar 2015 #41
Bravenak, it will be hard as hell to "meet" people that only exist in someone's imagination Number23 Mar 2015 #46
For real. I was like, 'Where the hell do they live?" bravenak Mar 2015 #49
I wasn't going to mention this; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #73
I just bet it would. bravenak Mar 2015 #77
Oh lord. cwydro Mar 2015 #72
Probably not a bad idea. Number23 Mar 2015 #84
Whatever dude or dudette. cwydro Mar 2015 #102
Condoleeza Rice had a similar experience while shopping guillaumeb Mar 2015 #54
I've been followed in the store. bravenak Mar 2015 #78
Yes, cwydro Mar 2015 #71
I believe you are oblivious. kwassa Mar 2015 #74
Professional black woman checking in here. A doctorate and two Master's degrees. And yes... Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #80
One is reading it with me. nt cwydro Mar 2015 #101
I am a professional (though, male),very well educated ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #70
You are not a woman of color. You are not a woman. So, how can you discount our experiences? Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #81
Only because there was dramatic footage of the abduction itself bettyellen Mar 2015 #9
Except for the other woman cwydro Mar 2015 #23
Newsworthy because of her delusional tweeting of an imaginary relationship and prior stalking of bettyellen Mar 2015 #106
Chandra Levy was the DC woman tularetom Mar 2015 #5
Thanks...Condit sure got the raw deal on that one. But this is a perfect example randys1 Mar 2015 #7
A bit off topic but there was another intern that was found dead in a congressman's office tularetom Mar 2015 #25
You are awesome! JustAnotherGen Mar 2015 #53
Lacy Peterson was the pregnant woman in central Ca. Her husband killed her. onecaliberal Mar 2015 #52
We have never ever been seen as malaise Mar 2015 #4
Hey malaise... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #18
I'm gonna have to disagree on this. cwydro Mar 2015 #37
... tishaLA Mar 2015 #47
Ok. cwydro Mar 2015 #62
You really need to do some homework. kwassa Mar 2015 #64
I don't need to do any homework cwydro Mar 2015 #66
but you haven't studied it. kwassa Mar 2015 #68
I think I posted ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #75
No, nothing has changed. kwassa Mar 2015 #76
But I have a 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #103
And this is why so many black women mistrust white women who call themselves feminists. Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #83
You are over 50 years old and are unfamiliar with the age-old stereotypes that White America Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #82
I wish Marym was on this thread. She was just so sad about this fact. bravenak Mar 2015 #21
Get that list together when you can, bravenak... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #50
I will, it can be an ongoing project. bravenak Mar 2015 #90
I'm willing to help, too. Can't exclude American Native women, either. Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #85
Awesome. bravenak Mar 2015 #89
Makes me realize something kinda sad... Lancero Mar 2015 #29
Black bodied women are endless recepticles of violence AngryAmish Mar 2015 #36
Not all of us, mind you..... AverageJoe90 Mar 2015 #60
Not all males...got it... AngryAmish Mar 2015 #65
LOL! Perfect nt tishaLA Mar 2015 #67
Well, what did you expect? AverageJoe90 Mar 2015 #69
Missing White Woman Syndrome kwassa Mar 2015 #38
This, kwassa.. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #40
yeah, I hate that "it's not race, it's class" crap. kwassa Mar 2015 #43
That bit should be pinned to the front page of this forum for all eternity Number23 Mar 2015 #51
It is insulting in so many ways Number23. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #58
Case in point: Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #42
Damn it, the story at the links makes me sick. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #45
Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #56
It is not about meism, 1SBM, sheshe2 Mar 2015 #63
Thanks for the reminder, 1SBM! We can never forget the brutality perpetuated against black men, too. Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #87
k&r Starry Messenger Mar 2015 #57
There is some truth to this. AverageJoe90 Mar 2015 #59
Me.... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #94
Yes, I agree. AverageJoe90 Mar 2015 #98
k&r Sheelanagig Mar 2015 #61
Because as many of us have been trying to explain as recently as Ms. Arquette's gaffe... Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #79
"Black men could care less about us as women." Number23 Mar 2015 #91
Number23: You know my statements were general, not to be taken literally. Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #92
I understand ENTIRELY Number23 Mar 2015 #95
Always, my friend, always!! :) Liberal_Stalwart71 Mar 2015 #96
Good to see you LS! sheshe2 Mar 2015 #97
Kick sheshe2 Mar 2015 #100
I'm right here. LWolf Mar 2015 #104
K&R treestar Mar 2015 #105

randys1

(16,286 posts)
1. It always reminds me of a few years ago when one white woman in DC was missing
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:18 PM
Mar 2015

and one white woman in central california was pregnant and missing

It was wall to wall coverage on both, forget their names now, and there is NO way if either were Black would it have made the news, at all.

American media, maybe all media, and most white people do not value POC lives hardly at all..

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
2. Well,
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:20 PM
Mar 2015

I do remember a black woman missing recently in (I think Maryland, DE area)... I may have the area wrong.

HUGE coverage and numerous replays of the video that caught her abduction.

Thank god she was found alive.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
3. National TV? I dont watch anything other than MSNBC so I may have missed it.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:21 PM
Mar 2015

The two I am thinking of were headlines, everywhere, all day everyday for months

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
8. Yes, it was played on CNN daily.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:31 PM
Mar 2015

And there was another. A doctor (med student) who went missing. Both were all over CNN. The med student turned out to be someone who was dealing with a nervous breakdown.

She was found.

The other was kidnapped but thank god, found alive. A black man kidnapped her.

Here in NC, a young black woman went missing some years ago. A very big story. A man (also black and a friend of her family) has been charged with her murder.

Two mistrials so far. They will charge him again.

It's still in the news down here...and this is in a small NC town.

Let's stop the race-baiting.

I guess you see what you want to see.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
17. I'm not going to play your game hon.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:40 PM
Mar 2015

You want to keep up this nonsense, then go ahead.

I don't get into pissing contests on DU. No point.

I simply pointed out that there are very notable news stories about missing black women.

Apparently, that did not fit your narrative. So now you've decided to attack me.

Good night, dear one.

Sleep tight.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
19. I simply asked if you were white? I am, and I know that I dont know
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:41 PM
Mar 2015

what their life experience is, you are saying that race isnt the issue, money or economics is.

A white person cant say that economic status is the issue and not race, do you get that?

Number23

(24,544 posts)
44. "It's economic status that counts in this country."
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:46 PM
Mar 2015

So sayeth someone that wishes all other ills would go away so that we can focus on the ones that affect THEM?

sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
86. Wait! Wait and wait and wait.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:02 AM
Mar 2015
Black women were told they would have to wait until the goals of the movement were reached before their specific needs would be addressed.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
88. That's what we're always told. Which is why so many of us started our own things that we didn't have
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:05 AM
Mar 2015

to wait for.

Schools
Organizations
Colleges
Sororities
Corporations
NGOs

Most black women I know, no matter how "upwardly mobile" are pretty bad at waiting.

sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
99. Well....
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 02:37 AM
Mar 2015


The faces of the forgotten: Heartbreaking plight of the 64,000 black women missing across America... as the country turns a blind eye


'When we hear the term missing persons, most people conjure up images of Chandra Levy, Caylee Anthony or Natalee Holloway,' says charity

40 per cent of all missing persons are black

A renewed campaign to highlight hundreds of missing African-American women has been launched amid ongoing criticism that less attention is given to their cases by authorities and the media.

According to the National Crime Information Center, nearly 40 per cent of those who have disappeared, often in suspicious circumstances, are black. However critics allege that public attention mainly focuses on white women who have vanished.

According to the Black And Missing Foundation, most women disappear in the states of New York, Georgia, North Carolina, Maryland and Florida.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2088428/The-shocking--forgotten--toll-missing-black-women-U-S.html#ixzz3TImnSzs0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook






tishaLA

(14,777 posts)
6. The fact that we can point to one, two, or three instances is indicative of the problem
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:30 PM
Mar 2015

which is that African American women have been devalued both in the mainstream feminist movement and in the Black liberation movement.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
15. I wasn't speaking directly to you randy.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:36 PM
Mar 2015

I meant the race baiting needs to stop everywhere.

But if you want to take it personally - hey go ahead.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
16. I dont care, I have thick skin, but maybe you should ask a POC about your hypothesis
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:39 PM
Mar 2015

Every single POC i have spoken with has a different take, so I follow their lead

I dont personally have a life experience that allows me to make the judgment, if you are a POC then I will leave it at that

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
22. I am not a "POC" as you call it. Oh wait,
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:49 PM
Mar 2015

I AM a "POC". I have a color...it is generally tannish whitish reddish (English heritage).

I hate that acronym, which in my opinion turns a person into a thing, imo.

My gf is black. She lives here in NC also. We've both been following the case of the murdered Monroe young woman.

I'm going to cease my communication with you because you have obviously been looking for an argument.

My point only, as my gf was helpful enough to point out lol, is that times are changing. How sad that I was trying to say that the MSM IS beginning to report these things.

Nah, you had to attack me for that. No worries. You got your agenda. Been here long enough to recognize an agenda when I see one.

Hey, how bout this? I'll pm you every missing "POC" story I find, OK?

Done here.

Have a good night.

tishaLA

(14,777 posts)
27. I really wish I could find the post 1SBM wrote last week
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:02 PM
Mar 2015

He said, correctly I think, that the general consensus at DU is that class is--I'm not going to be as eloquent as he--the primary analytic paradigm; he, and many others, both POC and non-OC, see that as insufficient and believe that foregrounding race as an analytical lens in imperative.

To analyze the persistence of race and racism is not "race baiting," though, any more than analyzing the role of class is engaging in "class warfare." It is merely a different mode of analysis.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
30. Um
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:05 PM
Mar 2015

--the primary analytic paradigm; he, and many others, both POC and non-OC, see that as insufficient and believe that foregrounding race as an analytical lens in imperative.

Huh?

Some verbs missing in that sentence.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
33. It still didn't make sense.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:13 PM
Mar 2015

Read it over.

Hey listen, we're all fighting on the same side here.

My whole point was that the MSM FINALLY was reporting when women (who were not white) disappeared.

That pissed off the OP apparently. I've been attacked since then. Perhaps I said things wrongly.

I'll take any incremental change in this world as a good one.

I'm over 50. Things have changed. Some have stayed the same.

But I'm hopeful for the future...as I always have been.

tishaLA

(14,777 posts)
34. I'll remove the clauses that are causing the problem
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:18 PM
Mar 2015

1SBM said that the general consensus at DU is that class is the primary analytic paradigm; he and many others see that (paradigm) as insufficient.

He said it much more eloquently, and with significantly fewer subordinate clauses, than I did.

sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
48. Actually, I am the OP.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:02 PM
Mar 2015

It is my opinion piece and even though you have pissed me off, you were not responding to me.

The incident mentioned happened in 1963.

From my OP.

On June 9, 1963, Fannie Lou Hamer was arrested in Montgomery County, Mississippi, along with June Johnson, Euvester Simpson, Rosemary Freeman, and Annelle Ponder. The five women were on their way back from a voter registration workshop in South Carolina. Upon their arrival at the Montgomery County jail, Hamer, Johnson, and Ponder were subjected to vicious brutality at the direction of notorious racist Sheriff Earl Wayne Patridge.

So pats on the back for 2 that were reported in the news just isn't nearly good enough. We should be ashamed, as a white woman, I know that I am.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
55. Sorry that I pissed you off.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:33 PM
Mar 2015

I know about Fannie Lou Hamer. I must have misread the OP...because I'm talking about this century. Yes, the crap that went on in this country in the last century? Horrid...hey, I'm old...I was here and I saw/heard it.

I thought we were talking about now. Things are changing. Thank the goddess.

We're on the same side sheshe.

Truly, we are.

I'm tired and dealing with an ill mom who is 88.

If I do not express myself correctly, well, that's on me.. But hey, we are on the same side, believe it or not.

Peace out.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
12. Poor women of any color are not counted as important.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:34 PM
Mar 2015

Same as poor men.

Money speaks in this country. And job status.

tishaLA

(14,777 posts)
20. That may be true, but the brutality visited upon African American women,
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:43 PM
Mar 2015

who deal with race issues in addition to gender and class issues, is something entirely different. For example, the feminist movement--and to their credit, many of the leaders of second wave feminism have addressed this--dealt insufficiently with the specific concerns of African American, Latina, and Asian women, whose social position, aspirations, etc may not overlap with those of women in "the dominant culture."

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
28. Not sure exactly what you want me to respond to.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:03 PM
Mar 2015

Yes I understand the brutality visited upon ALL women...of ALL races.

Yes, I am very well read (and very well aware of) what African American women have dealt with in this country in the past.

I'm not a young woman. My black and Hispanic friends range from 25 to my age (over 50). They are tough as nails. I've heard their stories and they've heard mine.

I don't care that I was white. I was female and was not allowed to play a trumpet in grade school (no, that's a boy's instrument). I wanted to run track in high school (no, there is no girl's track team). I could go on.

We women of a certain age dealt with prejudice and discrimination from childhood on up. Gah, the stories I could tell of when I was in the Air Force. Sexual harassment was not frowned upon, lol, it was a daily experience.

Sorry if I did not respond as you wanted.

tishaLA

(14,777 posts)
32. Again, nobody is denying gender discrimination
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:13 PM
Mar 2015

and I don't doubt your accounts of the things you have faced--because we still face many of them today. I am simply saying that examining the specific problems faced by African American women, which is what the OP is about, is impossible without also examining the role race plays in oppression alongside misogyny and/or poverty.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
35. Now see ?
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:21 PM
Mar 2015

I completely agree with your post.

However again, the African American women I know, and there are many, are not in the LEAST oppressed, nor do they feel that they are. They are all professional women, educated, upwardly mobile, and they need no "sympathy" from anyone.

Poor women, uneducated women, of any color...they are the ones who will face more oppression.

tishaLA

(14,777 posts)
39. I never mentioned sympathy and I tried not to use the word oppression
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:32 PM
Mar 2015

although I landed on it anyhow. Every other word I thought of seemed too dismissive

But you are very fortunate to know only professional, educated, upwardly mobile African American women who don't feel the sting of race and racism.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
41. I'd like to meet them.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:34 PM
Mar 2015

Oprah Winfrey suffers from racism, and she is all those things and more. I remember the handbag incident.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
46. Bravenak, it will be hard as hell to "meet" people that only exist in someone's imagination
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:49 PM
Mar 2015
 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
49. For real. I was like, 'Where the hell do they live?"
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:05 PM
Mar 2015

You said it. They live in the same place as dragons.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
73. I wasn't going to mention this; but ...
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 11:48 PM
Mar 2015

the poster knows a bunch of accomplished Black women ... in North Carolina ... and none of them feel "oppressed"?

I'd bet if you, or I, were to ask them ... the answer might be a little different!

Number23

(24,544 posts)
84. Probably not a bad idea.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 12:59 AM
Mar 2015

P.S. You might want to take a second and look at this video from several educated, accomplished, "upwardly mobile" black women that say the utter and complete opposite of whatever it is you are trying to say in this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118712632

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
102. Whatever dude or dudette.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 07:46 AM
Mar 2015

All I was "trying to say in this thread" was that I do think things are getting better.

Believe me, I know of discrimination on many many levels. I just see things changing for the better (incrementally maybe, but changing).

But I also realize that optimism is frowned upon here on DU.

So y'all go on and I'll leave you to it.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
54. Condoleeza Rice had a similar experience while shopping
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:27 PM
Mar 2015

apparently the practice is so prevalent that social scientists have a name for it "shopping while black". And people of all political persuasions can talk about "post-racial America" with a straight face.

I am a white male, by the way. Have never experienced racial discrimination, but my eyes and ears are open all the time and I see and hear it all the time. How much worse to be the object of it rather than the observer of it? Plus we have the brutal insults and assaults on President Obama and his family if we do not see discrimination where we live.

More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopping_while_black

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
78. I've been followed in the store.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 12:31 AM
Mar 2015

I'm not as nice as those women. I talk shit real loud.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
74. I believe you are oblivious.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 11:54 PM
Mar 2015

I would suggest you show this very thread to any and all of the black professional women that you know, and get their exact response to this thread.

You might find it illuminating.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
80. Professional black woman checking in here. A doctorate and two Master's degrees. And yes...
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 12:47 AM
Mar 2015

I am harassed, followed, and mistreated.

Class and education have nothing to do with it. Gender and race do!

Thanks so much!

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
70. I am a professional (though, male),very well educated ...
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 11:41 PM
Mar 2015

and "upwardly mobile", and if asked (especially by a white person) whether I need sympathy for being oppressed, the answer would be a resounding "No", as well.

But to shine different light on the matter, ask any one of these accomplished Women of Color, if they believe/feel their careers had been negatively affected by their being Women of Color ... Ask them whether they believe/feel they would/could have accomplished so much more; but for, their being Women of Color.

Your argument is a variation on the tired old "racial discrimination is dead because Oprah is a millionaire" ... She made her millions in spite of society's racial view; and still, her millions don't insulate her from the indignities that she suffers because of her race, indignities that not even the poorest of white women would face.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
81. You are not a woman of color. You are not a woman. So, how can you discount our experiences?
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 12:49 AM
Mar 2015

How in the world can you accuse some of "race baiting," essentially suggesting that we are lying about what we know to be true?

That is offensive. It is nonsensical. I'm trying to be patient with you. And I see nothing funny at all. I think you are very condescending and borderline despicable with your attitude and remarks.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
23. Except for the other woman
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:50 PM
Mar 2015

who disappeared into thin air.

Due to a nervous breakdown.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
106. Newsworthy because of her delusional tweeting of an imaginary relationship and prior stalking of
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 12:38 PM
Mar 2015

a well know preacher. There was a trail of her activities that abruptly ended when she seemed to vanish into thin air, while in a confused panic.

Did you see her videos and tweets about the man she had been stalking and carrying on an imaginary relationship with- she moved there to be with him, cooked dinner for him when he was not there- and posted about it? Very strange and sad stuff, that a med student so very ill could not get help, and continue to work without her mental crises being addressed. A quite dramatic story- I am sure there will be books and movies about it.

Do you have any stories about black women being abducted that would not make excellent Lifetime movies? Or, are you trying to prove the point of the OP?

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
5. Chandra Levy was the DC woman
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:29 PM
Mar 2015

and Lacey Peterson was the one in Modesto CA who was pregnant.

Peterson's body was found in SF Bay and her husband was ultimately convicted of killing her. He's now on death row in San Quentin.

Levy was an intern in the office of Cong. Gary Condit who also represented the Modesto area. She was killed in DC and her body was found in a park near a popular jogging trail. Condit was unable to provide a convincing alibi and he was suspected for a long time of being involved in her disappearance. Ultimately he lost his job over the case, but a homeless guy was ultimately caught and convicted of her murder. I think there were some issues with the trial and there may be an appeal going on currently.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
7. Thanks...Condit sure got the raw deal on that one. But this is a perfect example
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:31 PM
Mar 2015

of what I was talking about and nothing has changed.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
25. A bit off topic but there was another intern that was found dead in a congressman's office
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:52 PM
Mar 2015

about the same time.

And a short time later, that congressman abruptly resigned his office and divorced his wife.

AFAIK, the case remains unsolved. The former congressman is still around and very visible. In fact you can see him every morning if you don't mind getting up really early and watching an asshole.

malaise

(296,103 posts)
4. We have never ever been seen as
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:27 PM
Mar 2015

feminine or indeed delicate so we don't count. It's a complex subject because on the one hand it has given us space but, on the other hand it is racist to the core.

sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
18. Hey malaise...
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:41 PM
Mar 2015
We have never ever been seen as

feminine or indeed delicate so we don't count. It's a complex subject because on the one hand it has given us space but, on the other hand it is racist to the core.


I think part of it is because you are strong and you scare the heck out of them. It's their loss that they ignore black women. You are indeed feminine, delicate yet your strength carries you.
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
37. I'm gonna have to disagree on this.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:24 PM
Mar 2015

Black women are not feminine HUH?

I must have missed that memo.

tishaLA

(14,777 posts)
47. ...
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:51 PM
Mar 2015

<...> The concept of femininity has long been fraught for Black American women in particular because they have historically been
treated as though they exist outside of its boundaries as they faced economic exploitation, virulent stereotyping, and lack of legal
protection by virtue of their race (Collins, 2000). We use the term “race” in this article to acknowledge the structural inequality
associated with this socially constructed status (Helms & Talleyrand, 1997). Depictions of Black women as unattractive (Sekayi,
2003), aggressive (Freydberg, 1995), sexually promiscuous, and bad mothers (Hancock, 2004; Roberts, 1997) continue in the
popular imagination. Interview studies report that many Black women feel keenly that this normative femininity places them at a
disadvantage, both in comparison to White women, and in the eyes of men (Jones & Shorter-Goodwin, 2003; Rose, 2003). Indeed,
Thomas, Witherspoon, and Speight (2004) found that Black women who endorsed stereotypes of Black women grounded in
negative historical representations had lower self esteem. <...>

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CGIQFjAN&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsitemaker.umich.edu%2Fcole.qsort%2Ffiles%2Fcole___zucker_07.pdf&ei=RxH1VPDuD9booASlxoLICQ&usg=AFQjCNFzZ6vsTBSY-V_MQsu9BCLb-XXbrQ&sig2=sVI3Qhj8c5DDgzRUApu8uw

Also, I think that if you'd search "The Cult of True Womanhood" and race, you'd see a good deal of sources that address the question of femininity and African American women.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
62. Ok.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:42 PM
Mar 2015

I am only speaking for me as a white woman who loves a black woman.

I really could give a flying **** what any man thinks about me as a white woman or any black woman.

Who the F cares what men consider "feminine" or "desirable"?

I do not care one iota what the greater society or whomever considers feminine or desirable or whatever.

Why is it that you care about men's feelings about who is feminine? Pretty sure most men would not consider me "feminine" either. Gah, I'm out of this thread before my blood pressure spikes lol.

Omg. Wrong on so many levels.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
64. You really need to do some homework.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 11:07 PM
Mar 2015

Your personal perspective, while interesting, is not representative of the wider view and study on this subject.

Because it isn't about race for you doesn't mean that it isn't about race for most.

Because it isn't about femininity for you doesn't mean it isn't about femininity for most.

Because is it about class for you does not mean that it is about class for most.

Race and class are intertwined in this country, as black people have kept in the lower class due to racism, I might add.

Speaking as a white man in love with a black woman.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
66. I don't need to do any homework
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 11:19 PM
Mar 2015

I don't know how old you are, but I know how old I am. I'm thinking you are way younger.

I have lived through segregation, integration, school busing, riots, and any other damn race issue you want to discuss.

Homework???

No. I was there. I lived it.

Your condescending attitude is noted. I think we probably could not have a good discussion at this point. Perhaps another day.

Have a good night.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
68. but you haven't studied it.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 11:26 PM
Mar 2015

Your life is local. The issue is much bigger and broader than your life.

Locality is important, too. Where you are can strongly affect your personal experience it. Racial relations vary around this country.

and I've lived through a lot, too, and am no youngster.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
75. I think I posted ...
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 11:59 PM
Mar 2015

some time back how annoying it is having a white person claim their opinion, informed by vicarious experience, holds equal weight as the lived experience of PoC.

I see not much has changed.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
76. No, nothing has changed.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 12:10 AM
Mar 2015

It is, however, a logical fallacy. Projecting one's personal experience as universal.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
103. But I have a
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 08:41 AM
Mar 2015
{Insert disenfranchised group here} Girl Friend/Husband/Best Friend told me {she/he/they} agree(s) with what I said!"
 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
83. And this is why so many black women mistrust white women who call themselves feminists.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 12:57 AM
Mar 2015

That they cannot or refuse to step outside themselves to understand or even consider the plight of women of color, in general, or black women, in particular is frustrating.

Their incredible sense of superiority, their condescending attitude...this is the problem many black women have with you.

Disgusting!!!

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
82. You are over 50 years old and are unfamiliar with the age-old stereotypes that White America
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 12:55 AM
Mar 2015

has perpetuated for centuries about black women that persist to this day? Really?

The fat, black, asexual Mammy?

Aunt Jemima? Ever heard of her?

All the maids portrayed in the media?

Not to mention, the European standards of beauty that black women with certain features and kinky hair will never attain? When images of black women are introduced in the media, they are the closest to white as possible, e.g., Beyonce, Rihanna, Halle Berry. In other words, they are light-skinned, racially ambiguous, or multi-racial. If not...if they are darker-skinned, they tend to be rail-thin, with white or Caucasoid features.

Look, do not pretend to be oblivious to these things. You'd then be insulting my intelligence.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
21. I wish Marym was on this thread. She was just so sad about this fact.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 08:44 PM
Mar 2015

I said I was going to get together a list and write something up about this. I still intend to do it. I just need to organize my thoughts. We women need to keep pushing our women out there into the spot light. Maybe an article every few days on a different woman. Don't forget how bad Native American women are treated. I could tell you stories!! Starting with how JOSH WADE killed a native american woman and only got 'tampering with evidence' conviction until he killed a Nurse Practitioner woman when he got released. I swear he was out less than a year. I know one of the people who gave evidence to the police about him showing off the body. The fact the he got off damaged the entire community and the state. The second woman he killed did alot of work out in the villages where they have few doctors. I'll never get over it.

sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
50. Get that list together when you can, bravenak...
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:12 PM
Mar 2015

Then write it.

So many women of all colors are hurt and mistreated. White women should not make the headlines while women of other colors are ignored, we are not better than anyone else. Nor do we want to be. We are woman and we all stand together.

Tell it!

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
90. I will, it can be an ongoing project.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:12 AM
Mar 2015

Enough people write about men. Time for women to be heard.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
89. Awesome.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:11 AM
Mar 2015

We can all write something for the stories that deeply trouble us. Like all of them.

Lancero

(3,276 posts)
29. Makes me realize something kinda sad...
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:03 PM
Mar 2015

Looking at the recent cases to hit news over police brutality, almost all have been african american males. People are so focused on one aspect - Race - that they are ignoring another key aspect - Gender.

It's a pretty sad admission, but even when fighting for equality some groups are still thrown under the bus.

This article is a decent read over it - http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/04/kyriarchy-101/

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
36. Black bodied women are endless recepticles of violence
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:21 PM
Mar 2015

That is how cis bodied white males like it.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
60. Not all of us, mind you.....
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:39 PM
Mar 2015

What of anti-racists? What of liberals, and even egalitarians of any stripe? Do we also like that African-American women and girls are still a primary target of hatred by the less moral sections of U.S. society?

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
38. Missing White Woman Syndrome
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:25 PM
Mar 2015
Missing white woman syndrome

Missing white woman syndrome is a phrase used by social scientists to describe the extensive media coverage, especially in television, of missing person cases that involve young, white, upper-middle-class women or girls.[1] Sociologists define the media phenomenon as the undue focus on upper-middle-class white women who disappear, with the disproportionate degree of coverage they receive being compared to cases concerning missing women of other ethnicities and social classes, or with missing males of all social classes and ethnicities.[2][3]

The PBS news anchor Gwen Ifill is said to be the originator of the phrase.[3] Although the term was coined to describe disproportionate coverage of missing person cases, it is sometimes used to describe the disparity in news coverage of other violent crimes. The concept is similar to hierarchy of death, in which certain types of deaths garner more news coverage than others. Missing white woman syndrome has led to a number of tough on crime measures named for white women who went missing and were subsequently found harmed.

.....................................................................

With regard to missing children, statistical research which compares national media reports with FBI data shows that there is marked under-representation of African American children in media reports relative to non-African American children. A subsequent study found that girls from minority groups were the most under-represented in these missing-children news reports by a very large margin.[4]

A report that aired on CNN noted the differences between the level of media coverage given to attractive caucasian women like Murder of Laci Peterson and Natalee Holloway, who went missing in 2002 and 2005 respectively, and LaToyia Figueroa, a pregnant Black/Hispanic woman. Figueroa went missing in Philadelphia the same year Holloway disappeared. Figueroa and her unborn daughter were found murdered.[5] The San Francisco Gate published an article detailing the disparity between the coverage of the Peterson case and that of Evelyn Hernandez, a Hispanic woman who was nine months pregnant when she disappeared in 2002.[6]

Kym Pasqualini, president of the National Center for Missing Adults, observed that media outlets tend to focus on "damsels in distress" – typically, affluent young white women and teenagers.[7]

Dr. Cory L. Armstrong pointed out in the Washington Post that "the pattern of choosing only young, white, middle-class women for the full damsel treatment says a lot about a nation that likes to believe it has consigned race and class to irrelevance".[3]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
40. This, kwassa..
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:33 PM
Mar 2015
Dr. Cory L. Armstrong pointed out in the Washington Post that "the pattern of choosing only young, white, middle-class women for the full damsel treatment says a lot about a nation that likes to believe it has consigned race and class to irrelevance".


Sad facts, very sad kwassa.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
43. yeah, I hate that "it's not race, it's class" crap.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:39 PM
Mar 2015

like it is all over this thread.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
51. That bit should be pinned to the front page of this forum for all eternity
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:14 PM
Mar 2015
"the pattern of choosing only young, white, middle-class women for the full damsel treatment says a lot about a nation that likes to believe it has consigned race and class to irrelevance".

sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
58. It is insulting in so many ways Number23.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:37 PM
Mar 2015

As a woman, white but not young it really is an insult to be considered a "damsel in distress". Airhead white women need a man to rescue them? Not likely. As for...

middle-class women for the full damsel treatment says a lot about a nation that likes to believe it has consigned race and class to irrelevance".


Fools, they are such blind fools to consign race and class to irrelevance. They have their eyes wide shut, their mind shuttered and their hearts as cold as ice.

It sure does need to be pinned and read over and over.



 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
56. Yes ...
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:34 PM
Mar 2015
Even after slavery was outlawed, rape was used as a means of reminding Black women of their place, just as lynching was used against Black men (though history rarely mentions this legacy of the Jim Crow era).


And rape was/is a tool to remind Black men of our place, as well. There was an NPR segment on rape as a military tactic ... The segment interviewed a group that ran a center for men that were shunned by their community because, in the words of a female community member, "What kind of man cannot defend his family?"

{Please note, this post was not intended to be a WhatAboutMeism ... if you feel it is, just let me know and I will delete it.}

sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
63. It is not about meism, 1SBM,
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 11:02 PM
Mar 2015

and of course I welcome you here. I always respect your input. Do you have a link to the NPR segment handy? If not I will google it. I would like to read it.

It is all interconnected you know. All of it.

And rape was/is a tool to remind Black men of our place, as well. There was an NPR segment on rape as a military tactic ... The segment interviewed a group that ran a center for men that were shunned by their community because, in the words of a female community member, "What kind of man cannot defend his family?"


I think that woman was wrong to say this, wrong on so many levels. Did she walk in that mans shoes, did she know him? Was she there? It is not and should never be a you or me situation. A family unit defends their family, not to fall on the shoulders of the man himself. That is old school. It is done together.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
87. Thanks for the reminder, 1SBM! We can never forget the brutality perpetuated against black men, too.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:05 AM
Mar 2015

I think the black community still suffers from very deep psychological, internalized post-slavery effects.

Someone once coined, "post traumatic slavery disorder".

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
59. There is some truth to this.
Mon Mar 2, 2015, 10:37 PM
Mar 2015

I can say this, though: if we *really* want to address these specific problems, then there needs to be more across the table discussions, for one; we can't afford for 100% exclusive spaces to dominate, in a crucial time like this.

sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
94. Me....
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:36 AM
Mar 2015

I think we need some across the table listening. We white people don't know shit. We need to listen and support. It is time we really make that effort to listen what people of color have to say.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
98. Yes, I agree.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:51 AM
Mar 2015

But listening isn't just a one way street, however, whether it be in Social Justice or Feminism, or anything else.....sadly, I think some folks have lost sight of that in recent years.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
79. Because as many of us have been trying to explain as recently as Ms. Arquette's gaffe...
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 12:40 AM
Mar 2015

...the lives of black women do not mean shit. We have been conditioned to be thought of as race FIRST. And we definitely are not thought of as women or human. That's why no one cares. The general White American public could give a shit about us as a black person. Black men could care less about us as women. And yet, we're always on the front lines, risking our very lives fighting for everyone else's struggles, whether it be the slavery, the Civil Rights Movement, gays and lesbians, women's rights, fighting against accusations leveled at black male entertainers and athletes, or marching for Trayvon Martin, Mike Brown or Eric Garner--while forgetting about all the black women who were raped, harassed, and gunned down in the streets by police and others.

No one gives a shit about black women. Period.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
91. "Black men could care less about us as women."
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:15 AM
Mar 2015

On this, I have to disagree. And I know that my anecdotes do not a scientific example make and I know we have allllll seen the brothers stepping over gorgeous, smart sistas to go and holla at the dumbest, most basic looking white girls.

But I just cannot say that black men don't care about us. I have had too many in my life that care and care DEEPLY.

But you're right that black women give and give and give until we are literally HURTING from giving. There was a Washington Post series a few years ago that said that proportionally, black women give away more of our income than any other group. And that was either through charitable donations or taking care of our own families and in many cases, taking care of OTHER people's families. We have so much to be proud of.

 

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)
92. Number23: You know my statements were general, not to be taken literally.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:20 AM
Mar 2015

Of course, most black men are wonderful and have always been there for us black women. An overwhelmingly majority of black men date and marry black women; they create healthy, wonderful, life-long relationships with black women. Together, black men band women ibuild strong black families and collectively, black communities that endure white suppression and continued hegemony. And they never leave.

Out of my frustration, however, I write because I tire of the willful ignorance of many here on DU who act as if they are naive of others' life experiences. They play dumb and act as if they are oblivious of these experiences and have never heard of them. It's bullshit. And you know by now that I'm not afraid to call bullshit when I see it.

So forgive me for being frustrated, my friend.

Always...

Number23

(24,544 posts)
95. I understand ENTIRELY
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:37 AM
Mar 2015

And I could tell that there was frustration in your post and I surmised that it was probably brought on by some of the tone deaf cluelessness upthread. And I understand that ENTIRELY too. One of the reasons that I've said probably a thousand times that DU fails epically when it comes to racial issues, despite certain poster's propensity for forever patting themselves on the back with how "worldly," "sophisticated" and "liberal" they and this place are.

So you know that you are "forgiven" without even having to ask. You know us "upwardly mobile" sistas need to stick together.

sheshe2

(97,626 posts)
97. Good to see you LS!
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 01:48 AM
Mar 2015

In my white way, I understand your frustration of those here that ignore your life, they don't listen. So sorry.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
104. I'm right here.
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 09:19 AM
Mar 2015

Let's talk.

Black women are my sisters and my fellow humans. I don't think they need to wait for a damned thing. I'll stand with them and I'll fight with them.

Where's the most effective place to start?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
105. K&R
Tue Mar 3, 2015, 11:20 AM
Mar 2015

This is very important. Black women have two struggles for equality and they are the ones who need support rather than being demanded to support others, which they already have

A black woman missing or harmed by police should be a top story too and it is shameful if it is not.

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