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Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:31 AM

Farrakhan Blames Jews For 9/11

Minister Louis Farrakhan devoted a large portion of his annual address to followers in Chicago to the anti-Semitic myth that Jews were responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL), which has extensively reported on the anti-Semitic activities of Farrakhan and his group, said that Farrakhan’s latest speech reaffirms his status as the leading anti-Semite in America.

It was the latest in a long litany of hate-filled diatribes from Farrakhan, the anti-Semitic and racist leader of the Nation of Islam, who has for decades used his pulpit and his organization to promote hatred aimed at Jews, blaming them for — among other things — the slave trade and the modern-day subjugation of Black people in America.

“Farrakhan is the pied piper of bigotry. No one perhaps since Father Coughlin has been able to so use and abuse his status as a religious leader with a large audience to obsessively harp on about perceived Jewish power and influence,” said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. “At a time when anti-Semitic attitudes in America are at historic lows, Farrakhan’s unabashed promotion of anti-Semitism is a throwback to the intolerance of another era.”

more: http://www.jspacenews.com/farrakhan-blames-jews-911/

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Arrow 67 replies Author Time Post
Reply Farrakhan Blames Jews For 9/11 (Original post)
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 OP
Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2015 #1
ProfessorGAC Mar 2015 #54
Aerows Mar 2015 #2
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #7
Aerows Mar 2015 #8
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #9
Aerows Mar 2015 #11
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #13
Aerows Mar 2015 #15
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #16
Aerows Mar 2015 #17
leftynyc Mar 2015 #39
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #44
leftynyc Mar 2015 #46
PCIntern Mar 2015 #61
cali Mar 2015 #18
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #20
LeftishBrit Mar 2015 #64
zappaman Mar 2015 #3
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #4
Aerows Mar 2015 #6
cali Mar 2015 #10
Aerows Mar 2015 #12
cali Mar 2015 #14
leftynyc Mar 2015 #42
Aerows Mar 2015 #66
Ken Burch Mar 2015 #5
treestar Mar 2015 #19
cali Mar 2015 #22
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #24
cali Mar 2015 #25
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #27
cali Mar 2015 #31
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #32
anotojefiremnesuka Mar 2015 #21
cali Mar 2015 #23
anotojefiremnesuka Mar 2015 #33
cali Mar 2015 #45
anotojefiremnesuka Mar 2015 #48
cali Mar 2015 #60
Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #51
Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #26
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #29
Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #34
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #37
Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #40
Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #38
Mc Mike Mar 2015 #28
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #30
Mc Mike Mar 2015 #35
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #36
Mc Mike Mar 2015 #41
Behind the Aegis Mar 2015 #43
Mc Mike Mar 2015 #47
Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #56
Mc Mike Mar 2015 #59
Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #63
Mc Mike Mar 2015 #67
Pooka Fey Mar 2015 #50
Marrah_G Mar 2015 #49
Jamastiene Mar 2015 #52
romanic Mar 2015 #53
mythology Mar 2015 #55
geek tragedy Mar 2015 #57
ismnotwasm Mar 2015 #58
BubbaFett Mar 2015 #62
LeftishBrit Mar 2015 #65

Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:38 AM

1. Is he still alive?

From under what rock did he slither out?

I'm in Chicago and I haven't heard that name in ages.

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Response to Hassin Bin Sober (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 09:01 AM

54. Exactly What I Thought, Hassin

I thought he'd been abducted by aliens. Actually, i just figured his 15 minutes were long over.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:39 AM

2. Does this mean

 

that everyone that is upset about racial bigotry is responsible for his statements?

I'm puzzled. I'm a Democrat. I was pissed because Benjamin Netanyahu insulted our President and frankly, the intelligence of the half of our nation that are on the left.

What loyalty would you have me throw out to get outraged that Bibi fucked up by speaking to Congress and attempting to humiliating our President?

Should I toss out the loyalty I have to the gay community as a lesbian, and agree with Bibi? Should I toss out my loyalty to the Democratic party and agree with Bibi? Should I toss out my loyalty to the US and agree with Bibi when I don't agree with him so that I blindly support Israeli LEADERSHIP that I disagree with?

Let me know what parts of my personality, my humanity and my identity I should sacrifice to avoid offending someone that did something both offensive and stupid, as the PM of Israel did.

While you are at it, maybe you should tell the Israeli's that will get the opportunity to vote him out of office how anti-Semitic they are ... because they don't agree with him, either.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:55 AM

7. In U.C.L.A. Debate Over Jewish Student, Echoes on Campus of Old Biases

LOS ANGELES — It seemed like routine business for the student council at the University of California, Los Angeles: confirming the nomination of Rachel Beyda, a second-year economics major who wants to be a lawyer someday, to the council’s Judicial Board.

Until it came time for questions.

“Given that you are a Jewish student and very active in the Jewish community,” Fabienne Roth, a member of the Undergraduate Students Association Council, began, looking at Ms. Beyda at the other end of the room, “how do you see yourself being able to maintain an unbiased view?”

For the next 40 minutes, after Ms. Beyda was dispatched from the room, the council tangled in a debate about whether her faith and affiliation with Jewish organizations, including her sorority and Hillel, a popular student group, meant she would be biased in dealing with sensitive governance questions that come before the board, which is the campus equivalent of the Supreme Court.

The discussion, recorded in written minutes and captured on video, seemed to echo the kind of questions, prejudices and tropes — particularly about divided loyalties — that have plagued Jews across the globe for centuries, students and Jewish leaders said.

more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/us/debate-on-a-jewish-student-at-ucla.html

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:58 AM

8. I think we have segued here

 

but let me point out my final comment:

"While you are at it, maybe you should tell the Israeli's that will get the opportunity to vote him (Netanyahu) out of office how anti-Semitic they are ... because they don't agree with him, either."

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Response to Aerows (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 04:01 AM

9. 3 Sought in 1982 Attack in Paris’ Jewish Quarter

Paris — More than 32 years after a deadly terror attack in Paris’ old Jewish quarter, French authorities have at last identified three suspects and are seeking their arrest.

Grenade-throwing Palestinians burst into the Jo Goldenberg deli on Aug. 9, 1982, and sprayed machine-gun fire. Six people, including two Americans, were killed, and 21 injured. The restaurant, which has since closed, was a centerpiece tourist attraction in the famed Marais neighborhood.

Paris prosecutor’s office spokeswoman Agnes Thibault-Lecuivre said Wednesday that international arrest warrants have been issued for the three suspects — now aged in their late 50s and early 60s — who were believed to be members of the Abu Nidal group.

She said they are believed to be in the Palestinian territories, Jordan and Norway but declined to release their names, citing protocol.

The announcement comes as French authorities are grappling with rising anti-Semitism, notably among young Muslim radicals. A French Islamic extremist killed four people at a Paris kosher supermarket in January, and another French radical killed four people at a Jewish school in Toulouse in 2012.

more: http://www.vnews.com/news/nation/world/15959728-95/3-sought-in-1982-attack-in-paris-jewish-quarter

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 04:06 AM

11. Absolutely as horrible

 

as killing of Black men and women in the US. But I guess I have no idea what this has to do with the story, thread, or where on earth this is going.

I am not being dismissive, I have to go to bed, it's cold as hell here, and maybe I'm not firing on all cylinders. I'll pick it up with you later tomorrow.

Hope all is well with you and you are warm (with your puppies, too ) BtA.

Take care, and good night, my friend.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 04:07 AM

13. Yom Hashoah observance April 19 at LFJCC

DIEGO (Press Release)– On Sunday, April 19, at 1:30 p.m. the Jewish Federation of San Diego County will present a special Holocaust commemoration (Yom HaShoah) program. The theme of this year’s annual commemoration is: From Auschwitz to Activism – 70 Years on From the Holocaust. The event will be held at the Lawrence Family Jewish Community Center in the Garfield Theater, 4126 Executive Drive, La Jolla.

All are welcome to join the San Diego community to remember the millions of Holocaust victims, honor survivors in our community, and to teach our children about anti-Semitism and lessons from the past. The program will include a military color guard commemorating camp liberation, a musical presentation, a candle lighting ceremony, with candles lit by Holocaust survivors and their descendants in memory of those who perished.

The event will feature keynote speaker Dr. Steven Windmuller, PH.D., Rabbi Alfred Gottschalk Emeritus Professor of Jewish Communal Service at Hebrew Union College- Jewish Institute of Religion in Los Angeles. Dr. Windmuller will discuss what it means when we say “never again” and will speak about global anti-Semitism. Dr. Windmueller will also be speaking at Congregation Ner Tamid on Saturday, April 18, at 7 p.m.

The Holocaust Commemoration has been held in San Diego for more than three decades, and in the past few years more than 500 people have been in attendance.

more: http://www.sdjewishworld.com/2015/03/04/yom-hashoah-observance-april-19-at-lfjcc/

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 04:23 AM

15. Not to complain

 

but my aunt passed away today, and it has been stressful. If I don't make sense, it is because I am a bit troubled, need sleep and can't, but I know I have a bunch of things to do tomorrow.

I was hanging around trying to take my mind off of it. Ignore me if I make no sense.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 04:25 AM

16. Sorry for your loss.

Spokane woman to be honored for role in WWII Dutch Resistance

A Spokane great-grandmother will be honored in Olympia next week for her work as a teenage Dutch Resistance operative during World War II.

Carla Olman Peperzak, 91, helped hide approximately 40 Jews from the Germans. She also forged identification papers, served as a messenger and helped publish a newsletter for the underground movement.

“Carla is a person of incredible grace and heroism. I’d like her story told as far and wide as possible,” said Sen. Andy Billig, D-Spokane.

This May marks the 70th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe.

more: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/mar/06/spokane-woman-to-be-honored-for-role-in-wwii/

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 04:31 AM

17. It was very abrupt

 

and unexpected. Thank you.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 06:02 AM

39. Some people are never going

 

to get it. It's looking like they don't want to get it because it's easier for them not to get it. Nauseating.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #39)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 06:09 AM

44. Some things never change...as Farrakhan demonstrates, which is, of course, the topic at hand.

Seems when it comes to anti-Semitism, we aren't allowed to discuss it unless given "approval."

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #44)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 06:13 AM

46. Fuck that

 

louis has been a disgusting antisemite for decades. Anyone who doesn't like it getting called out can kiss my ass. Sorry your thread got hijacked by those who simply cannot separate what goes on in Israel with all Jews. And on a "progressive" board.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #44)

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 11:57 AM

61. Perhaps there should be a panel here...

and before we submit anything about anti-Semitism/anti-Zionism, it should be reviewed by the panel. One member of the panel may veto the inclusion of the post on the Board. Chosen for the panel would be the members who have the highest success rate in alerting and hiding posts of people who post about anti-Semitism/anti-Zionism. No people of Jewish extraction would be allowed to serve.

That sounds pretty fair, right?

Since I have been instructed by many that the Christian woman who stomped the Jewish individual's head, proclaiming that the latter's religion was anathema was NOT anti-Semitic, I need to be educated as to what to think here. I apologize for my shortcomings.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:11 AM

18. whoa. just read that. disturbing shit. and the "apology" offered after these little bigots

 

were called on it, is just another bullshit non-apology "apology".

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Response to cali (Reply #18)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:16 AM

20. Yeah, that was pretty stark.

Very little confusion as to if it was anti-Semitic or not. I had something similar happen when I was in college, but is was in relation to my activity in the GBLT group. Could I be an advisor to non-gay students. I never got an apology, but the interviews had a script from that point on. Apparently, other similar "questions" were asked.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #2)

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 12:35 PM

64. Are you intending to respond to the right post?

Regarding Netanyahu as 'offensive and stupid' - which he most certainly is! - is not the same thing as saying that Israel did 9-11, let alone that 'the Jews' did it.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:41 AM

3. In other news....

WATER.
STILL WET.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:45 AM

4. LOL! Yup.

Some things never change, including side-stepping anything having to do with anti-Semitism and making it about Israel. What I found interesting was his sources (in another article) he used in establishing the "fact" the Jews were responsible for 9-11.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:48 AM

6. It's rather looking

 

like attempts to explain how water isn't wet because it can be steam, it can be ice, and oh boy, everybody but Netanyahu and Republicans are too stupid to know that.



It's okay to humiliate the Democratic President of the United States and cheer those who badmouth him on Democratic Underground, suddenly, I guess, for some, but not to me.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 04:03 AM

10. huh? I'm perplexed by all three of your posts in this thread. they are tangential.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 04:07 AM

12. It's time for me to go to bed

 

I am totally not firing on all cylinders, so excuse me.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 04:08 AM

14. Have a sweet sleep.

 

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Response to Aerows (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 06:05 AM

42. What are you babbling about?

 

How did a story about screwy louis get turned about to a story about bibi? Since everyone else is dancing around the question, I'm just going to go ahead and ask if you are unable to separate all Jews from what is going on in Israel because it sure seems like you're desperate to change the subject of the OP.

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Response to leftynyc (Reply #42)

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 01:55 PM

66. Being an idiot.

 

I'm human. My aunt died and I was getting the phone calls about it when I was posting, so I was distracted and probably went off on a tangent.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 03:48 AM

5. Is anyone surprised by this?

 

Farrakhan has always been this way.

It's a big part of the reason why he's now largely irrelevant even in the AA community.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:15 AM

19. Well that's insane

Farrakhan sounds like he's off his rocker.

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Response to treestar (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:19 AM

22. He has always sounded like this.

 

He's never been anything but a hateful crazy bigot- and he doesn't limit himself to anti-semitism.

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Response to cali (Reply #22)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:27 AM

24. So true...

Louis Farrakhan Critiques Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement

Minister Louis Farrakhan recently responded to President Obama's endorsement of gay marriage calling him "the first president that sanctioned what the scriptures forbid," according to a video posted by the Nation of Islam's "official" news source, Finalcall.com.

During an address at the California Convention Center on Sunday, the Nation of Islam leader ridiculed the media for its portrayal of Obama after the announcement, and chastised politicians and clergy for hypocritically supporting gay marriage despite the fact that the Bible forbids it.

Throughout his speech, Farrakhan carefully points out that he does not condone homophobia, saying "I'm not your enemy. I'm your brother, and I do love you." However, he said "sin is sin according to the standard of God."

"Males coming to males with lust in their hearts as they should to a female," he said. "Now don't you dare say Farrakhan was preaching hate; he's homophobic. I'm not afraid of my brothers and sisters or others who may be practicing what God condemned in the days of Lot. That's not our job to be hateful of our people. Our job is to call us to sanity."


Though, in my personal opinion, such an article wouldn't have attracted the comments this thread did, nor spawned a thread about "what defines homophobia."

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #24)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:30 AM

25. Oh, I do. and I think a thread about what defines homophobia would

 

get a ton of responses- as it should.

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Response to cali (Reply #25)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:34 AM

27. You think the article about Farrakhan's homophobia would spawn a thread...

...about what is and isn't homophobia or elicit comments in thread about things not relating to homophobia?

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:43 AM

31. I think a thread regarding what constitutes or defines homophobia would

 

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Response to cali (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:45 AM

32. In that, I agree.

However, it is how it came to be which is the real issue.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:18 AM

21. Rather silly to single out a single group responsible for 9/11

 

One could make an argument that Israel was and currently is in cahoots with the USA, GB, France, Germany and others propping up dictators, abusive thugs, over throwing government's, etc, etc, etc over multiple decades which lead to the conditions that directly resulted in 9/11.

That would be fair but to lay it on the feet of a single ethnic group is just silly.

US Policy in the Middle East for the last 60+ years resulted in 9/11.



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Response to anotojefiremnesuka (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:21 AM

23. Yes, U.S. policy is a piece of it, but the ultimate responsibility for any

 

act of murder and mayhem should be laid at the feet of those who conceived the act and carried it out.

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Response to cali (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:46 AM

33. OK how about the CIA funding, Arming and egging on radicals in the Middle East

 

OBL was working for the CIA as far back as the Iranian Hostage Crisis, he was America's Frankenstein and he came home to meet his master so to speak.

The USA and the Western Allies created the conditions that resulted in 9/11, it is our fault.

Look at it this way, if some one gets a bunch of dogs and trains them to fight and be violent it is the fault of the dog or the fault of the trainer for making them that way?



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Response to anotojefiremnesuka (Reply #33)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 06:10 AM

45. and still, acts of mayhem and murder may well have contributing factors but

 

the ultimate responsibility for those acts rests with those who commit them.. It's simple really, humans aren't dogs, so your comparison is off.

I understand wanting to simplify and wanting to cram things into my personal belief system, even if I refuse to indulge in it.

U.S. actions are a contributing factor. No more no less. You appear to believe that OBL and those who engineered and carried out 9/11 were merely "dogs" trained by the U.S. Interesting.

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Response to cali (Reply #45)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 06:56 AM

48. People like dogs are not born violent, bigoted or hateful it take years of

 

conditioning and abuse to make them that way.

When all one knows is hate and violence that is all one can do.

was 9/11 planned by the CIA no, but they created the conditions and trained the people directly and indirectly involved, they just turned on their masters. We gave them the play book and trained them in asymmetrical warfare against the Soviet Union. Remember in the 80's when Reagan had their leaders up to the big house, he even called them the founding fathers of Afghanistan, we sure did like them when they were kicking Soviet ass but when they do the same to us, they now become terrorists.

Blame the folks who pulled it off if it brings you comfort, I don't care, since they are dead it really does not matter. I blame those who created them in the first place.

Until we the USA accept responsibility for what we did and are doing and stop supporting dictators, repressive regimes and providing arms and money to them, terrorism against the USA will continue.

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Response to anotojefiremnesuka (Reply #48)

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 11:20 AM

60. actually, some people are damn well born violent. some psychopaths certainly are

 

and it's absurd to claim, when there is so much evidence to the contrary, that all those who perpetrate horrific acts "know nothing but hate and violence". Nor have all those who have committed such acts, been oppressed by the U.S.

It neither gives me comfort not distresses me to place the ultimate responsibility on those who perpetrate horrific acts- whether it be 9/11 or the recent Charlie Hebdo massacre.

Of course the U.S. should take responsibility for our horrific acts. But if you think that all terrorism would stop if only the U.S. were to change its role in the world, you're ignorant of both history and human nature.

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Response to anotojefiremnesuka (Reply #33)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 08:32 AM

51. The Russians would share at least as much blame.

Yet, there never seems to be any left on the serving tray by the time it makes its way around to them.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:33 AM

26. And his message of hate seems to be finding an audience

as evidenced by the Alert which I just sent on a DU Poster who claims that (A) "Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people" and (B) "Israel DENIES this fact".

All this because I objected to the OP using the word "genocide" in the context of ISIL systematically destroying historical artifacts and artwork in the ME. I pointed out that, as horrific as this is, it is not a "genocide".

What the holy fuck is wrong with these people? Seriously. Just WTF?!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1031226

And I have to wonder what the Jury will do.

On edit : Jury voted 3-4 Leave it Alone.

Juror #6 sort-of, almost "gets" the problem, more or less:

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Not exactly "Jew hatred" but bullshit for sure, but yet another example of something NOT being about Israel magically becoming about Israel.


Juror #7 however might have saved the tattered honor of the DU community by writing this:

Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I am voting to hide because the poster thinks wrecking museum pieces (big crime, that) is the same as killing people. That's just dumb and that needs to be corrected. The poster is not taking this point even when instructed on it, which makes me wonder if this is one of those Holocaust deniers or just someone who is quirky and being a contrarian for trollish sport, or even someone who just doesn't get the significance--the deep significance, mind you--of the word GENOCIDE. Don't trifle with that word. Don't use it lightly. It has a precise meaning. If bodies are stacked like cordwood and an entire ethnicity of people are being wiped out, that's genocide. Destroying artifacts that have been catalogued, photographed, replicated and documented is what assholes do, but it's not genocide. There's no arguing about this, no back-and-forth. Words have meanings.




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Response to Pooka Fey (Reply #26)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:40 AM

29. Apparently, even mentioning his anti-Semitism means you support Netanyahu.

It is amazing, well not really, how even mentioning anti-Semitism spawns strawman and non-sequiter logical fallacies almost always revolving around Israel. The article isn't even about Israel; it is about Jews! Apparently, that seems to have escaped some.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:46 AM

34. I just edited my post #26 with selected Jury Results

I will post the complete Jury results in the Jewish forum on your thread about Antisemitism, if you give me permission.

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Response to Pooka Fey (Reply #34)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:54 AM

37. You can post them if you like.

So you know, my permission is not needed. I hope you participate in the Jewish group. There is a really interesting thread about Jews in Mexico that went up tonight.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #37)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 06:03 AM

40. Thanks

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:59 AM

38. Worse than that. My Wiki example was about the Armenian genocide of 1915

Because there are a few other genocides that meet the legal definition, that we can use as examples of how destroying artwork, while horrific, is not the same as exterminating a people. SOMEHOW, though, Israel gets brought up. So this is a deeper problem - we're in a different kind of zone here.

WTF?

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:37 AM

28. Farrakhan lining up with the birchers, again.

His NOI has been doing so since Elijah Muhammed worked for the Hunt family in the early '60's.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #28)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:43 AM

30. The "Jews did 9-11" meme isn't even relegated to the right.

There are plenty of examples from the left that mimic much of what he said. It is one of the more popular conspiracy theories. It ranks up there with "false flag" (meaning the US actually did it) and it was actually an illusion (seriously, that is one gaining more steam).

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #30)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:46 AM

35. I'm not sure, BtA.

I think that when you see a 'lefty' pushing it, they're a 'rightie' in disguise. Bircher Alex Jones springs to mind.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #35)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 05:51 AM

36. I know some think that, but that is more of a "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

While it is true, there are some "celebrated" on the left who are actually right-wingers, the left can be prone to whacky, and sometimes bigoted, theories.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #36)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 06:03 AM

41. Yes, I see what you're saying. And agree with your logical analysis.

No movement is immune to having fools or bad people in its ranks. But I think that anyone who is high-profile and gets publicity for pushing an anti-semitic angle is worthy of the suspicion that they're more than just a garden variety evil fool.

Farrakhan just serves a bircher function of attempting to widen schisms between the Black and Jewish communities. The NOI was never lefty in nature.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #41)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 06:07 AM

43. I agree with you as well.

"High profile" would definitely change the equation. I would actually be surprised with someone who was actually widely respected started spouting the crap that Farrakhan or Jones spouts. I could see it happening in some other places, including locations in Europe, but here, it really would be an anomaly.

I also agree about Farrakhan attempting to widen relations between AA folks and Jews. In that, sadly, he is not alone.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 06:26 AM

47. I'm a white R Cath, urban.

My observations are antecdotal, but it seems to me like Farrakhan only has influence via force and connections to the far-right portions of the US intel and big money machines. His ideas appear to be a non-starter among the Black community at large, anywhere out of range of the 'Fruit of Islam' arm.

One other thing about the 'high-profile' issue. All the big anti-semitic 'theories' appear to come from powerful influential sources, not some ding-bat rank-and-filer. And as soon as someone starts mouthing off in favor of them, it immediately causes me to suspect their political bona-fides, instead of suspecting Jewish people of anything.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #47)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 09:36 AM

56. If his connections are all to the far right, why is it that Democrats like John Conyers repeatedly

 

attend his hate speeches, apologize for being there, then attend another one a few months later?
May 2013:
"U.S. Rep. John Conyers, a Detroit Democrat, apologized today for Louis Farrakhan’s anti-Semitic comments during a talk he gave in a Detroit church last week.

Conyers, who attended Farrakhan’s speech Friday night at Fellowship Chapel, issued a strong statement that distanced himself from the Nation of Islam leader’s remarks, which were blasted earlier this week by a Jewish civil rights group and others.

“Farrakhan made unacceptable racist, anti-Semitic and homophobic statements, which I condemn in the strongest possible terms,” Conyers said. “It was my expectation that Minister Farrakhan’s speech would focus on the many challenges facing the city of Detroit. In previous days, he had discussed efforts to revitalize our city by purchasing property and investing in blighted neighborhoods. Regrettably, he used this opportunity to promote views that have no place in civilized discourse."
http://archive.freep.com/article/20130523/NEWS01/305230119/John-Conyers-apologizes-for-Farrakhan-s-anti-Semitic-remarks

And yet in Feb of 2014, Conyers attended another Farrakhan event with 18,000 attending, and yet again bigoted diatribes were delivered. Of course apologies are voided when one repeats the same offense, Conyers is counted as an anti gay asshole who is willing to sit and listen to Farrakhan say that President Obama “surrounded himself with Satan ... members of the Jewish community.

I am personally no longer accepting excuses from bigots, homophobes and racists.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #56)

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 11:06 AM

59. You're right about the uselessness of 'apologies' when the offense is repeated again, flagrantly.

Or even covertly.

I back Rep. Conyers in his work against repug election theft, and his work on behalf of his non-NOI constituents, and his Congressional Black Caucus work.

I think that pols like John C. and Jesse Jackson are within the range of the money and force arms of the NOI. For a very long time, the schism between Chicago and NY crime had Detroit on NY's side, the same as in Pgh., where I live. But Detroit is perilously close to Chi., and Farrakhan's money and connections are big. If you look at where the NOI comes from, how it was formed, where it gets its money and influence, you're looking at far-right bircher money and far-right intel.

If presented with any organized effort to lobby Rep. Conyers to never associate with the anti-Gay, anti-Semitic, anti-Woman, pro-Black Nationalist Farrakhan, I will be on board 100%. You're right about Conyer's attendance of the 2 '14 speech, but I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater regarding Rep. Conyers on this. In fact, I believe that the far-right who hates LGBTs also hates Conyers, and purposely forced him into this position to further schisms between groups of people they hate.

I see a bit of a parallel between Conyer's association with Farrakhan, and Moscone and Milk's association with Jim Jones. I believe the far right would have attempted to kill Harvey Milk, anyway, but the proximate cause of the Milk and Moscone assassinations was the murder of Rep. Ryan when he was investigating Jonestown. It is very much alluded to in Fierstein's documentary, Shilt's book, and Bay Area LGBT activists efforts at the time.

Jones already had a crazy and murderous record from his "People's Temple's" time in Ukiah, CA. He moved to S.F., with his big money and large personnel resources, and was a political force to be reckoned with when the Moscone Milk group took SF mayor and Supervisors. Aides to Milk were troubled by the behavior of the Jones personnel, and Milk cautioned them that the group was crazy and dangerous. Moscone put Jones in charge of the Housing Authority, but I believe he was forced to do so, not because the Jones people passed out flyers for the coalition, but because Jones had big money right wing backers who had to be contended with, by the Mayor and City Supervisors.

There is no doubt that Milk and Moscone were opposed to the insane moves by Jones, in Jonestown and S.F. The far-righties behind Jones felt that Moscone and Milk were going to blow the whistle, when Jonestown came crashing down, which explains their being murdered much better than twinkies can. There have been ridiculous efforts to tar Moscone and Milk with 'association with Jones', but the fact that they were assassinated puts the lie to this far-right effort to engender a schism between groups that the far-right hates.

Antecdotally, in my city, there was an isolated, high-crime housing project called Westgate Village. Back in '90 -'91, the 'Security' for this project was provided by the NOI. They decided that they didn't like an illegal card game being run in one of the units, and some of the Fruit of Islam attacked the place in force. They got their asses handed to them in unarmed combat, by the residents, and other members came back to fire-bomb the unit. Unfortunately, they didn't know the area, were out-of-towners like the rest of the Fruit of Islam security force, so they hit the wrong unit, and burned a single-mother and her family out of their home (no deaths). I just mention it because it was a high profile display of Housing Authority corruption, municipal fraud, increased influence of Chicago organized crime in Pittsburgh, and sweetheart contracts given to the Nation of Islam. The firebombing wasn't part of the policy of the Dems who run our area, it was purely a Farrakhan initiative, though the NOI got the contract for security through Dems. And Pittsburgh's own Black Moslem leaders were already on the record years before, in calling Farrakhan 'the biggest fool on the face of the Earth'. The Black residents of Westgate Village, and the non-aligned Black Moslems in Pittsburgh, didn't like Farrakhan, and don't back him on anything, including his anti-LGBT 'theories'. He speaks for the far-right, not Blacks, Moslems, or Democrats.

Farrakhan is from the right, of the right. People within his org's armreach have to deal with him. Conyers is wrong, but not bad.

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Response to Mc Mike (Reply #59)

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 12:21 PM

63. Here's what makes Conyers so very dishonest. He made an excuse for the first hateful speech saying

 

“It was my expectation that Minister Farrakhan’s speech would focus on the many challenges facing the city of Detroit. In previous days, he had discussed efforts to revitalize our city by purchasing property and investing in blighted neighborhoods. Regrettably, he used this opportunity to promote views that have no place in civilized discourse."

But then he went to another one a few months later with no reason to expect anything but more hate speech. This means his original excuse was nothing but a lie he told to people he does not consider worthy of any respect.

I'm a man, Conyers is a man. He attends events at which my people are denigrated and verbally abused, pretends surprise at this denigration, fakes an apology then does it all again. This man finds that man lacking in basic human decency. That apology he offered was not sincere. He sat though bigoted hate speech, then he did it again. Maybe he's lots of other things, but he's also that.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #63)

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 02:18 PM

67. I don't think we're talking in circles, but maybe talking past each other, Blue.

You will not get an attempt by me to excuse Conyer's second appearance with Farrakhan. I have no place telling someone who was offended against that they don't have a right to be outraged by the offense. I back Civil rights for LGBT people as well as Blacks. I've backed national political figures who are gay, or who backed Equal Rights, and never have backed any who run on a platform of being anti-LGBT or anti-Civil Rights. I didn't know about the two incidents until you showed me them, but would have been against Conyers appearing with Farrakhan, ever, anywhere, period.

We're talking because I said that Farrakhan is from the far-right, backed financially by them. The same aims and goals. Conyers isn't coming from a position of backing Farrakhan from above, or supporting him financially, though appearing with him backs him by giving him the legitimacy of being tied to a high-ranking Dem congressman. Conyers is trying to get money and jobs for his constituents, (all of them, every race religion and gender among them,) who have been suffering since the '80's, and are suffering more under Snyder's repug regime. He's turning to any source, and doesn't have financial support for development among his usual pool of backers, this appears obvious. He didn't get into office with a big Farrakhan endorsement or financial backing, and he's been there for decades. I would have expected the bigoted hate speech from Farrakhan, first thing out of the box, during the first appearance. In fact, I believe the funding Conyers is floundering for was designed to contain precisely that poison pill, an attempt by the far right to smear Conyers and promote schisms among strong Dem constituencies. Looking at Farrakhan's track record and empty pumpkin headed grin, you can see that on-stage he's going to blow up like a suicide bomber and take anyone on-stage with him, as he delivers another piece of black nazi insanity. But why does Farrakhan have the money for Detroit projects, while traditional DEM groups don't? Where's he getting the funds? It isn't from ill-fated small time security gigs in housing projects, or from bean pie and frozen fish sales. His outfit has been backed by Hunt family repug party Birchers for over 50 years.

I can't beg you to forgive Conyers for doing the wrong thing, twice. It isn't my place to try to tell you not to feel attacked by his actions, or excuse his actions. You're right about them, but I'm still not writing him off. I will lobby him to dump any further association with NOI given the opportunity, but his work for Civil Rights and Election Integrity and against the repugs aren't negated by his bad actions in these two associations with Farrakhan.

And Farrakhan does come from the far right. He's not a mainstream or left expression of Black hatred for Jews and LGBTs.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 07:30 AM

50. If you're alluding to Jean-Marie LePen

Last edited Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:21 AM - Edit history (1)

he has no credibility in France. He is considered to be a lunatic and an embarrassment by 99.5% of the French population. Yes he made the second tour in the presidential elections against Chirac, BUT France has a multi-party system of elections, so you can become a Presidential contender because the vote has been divided into 4 or 5 Presidential candidates.

The horrified reaction of the French press to this event should be evidence that JM LePen's popularity is not a feature which can be used to judge French society. People took concrete steps to combat the ignorance which led to this result of JM LePen.

Marine LePen, though I deeply mistrust her, has publicly broken with her father. Her popularity in France s not based on racism, though many try to say it is. She is "Laic" (secular). I have never heard any hatred of Jews in her speeches. (This cannot be said for her father - he is antisemitic and continues to spew out antisemitic statements)

I take care to actually listen to my political opponents, unless they are completely insane. Marinne LePen in not insane and I agree with her about the problems in the Euro zone and Europe, as do many French. I really hesitate to try and explain these issues to Americans because I can't sum up the economic and social issues facing France, especially in regards to its place in the EU, in a DU post.

God, I hope I don't regret posting this.

Peace

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 07:02 AM

49. he is such an ass

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 08:32 AM

52. Is he still going on and on with that bullshit?

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 09:00 AM

53. Farrakhan is such an embarassment.

I'm glad to see that most people in the black community ignore him like the loudmouth fool that he is. He's also a homophobic POS, I'm surprised he didn't throw gay people into his little rant.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 09:28 AM

55. I initially misread this and was going to blow a gasket

 

I thought the title was Franken blames Jews for 9/11. Apparently I'm not quite awake yet.

Instead it's just Farrakhan, and he's been an idiot for as long as I can remember. Thankfully few people give him any credence at this point, although any is far more than he deserves.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 09:52 AM

57. A vile, rightwing bigot who unfortunately

 

has unprincipled apologists amongst some who call themselves Democrats.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Mar 6, 2015, 09:53 AM

58. Asshole.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 11:58 AM

62. No more Final Call or bean pies for me

 

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Sat Mar 7, 2015, 12:39 PM

65. Farrakhan is a right old antisemite; this isn't the first (or last) time he's said this

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