I'm a liberal progressive, & a newbie, so I didn't know 'til I got to DU that I am supposed to hate

[Sarcastica]

Sec Clinton. I knew there were several votes in the Senate I disapproved of, although I could understand in the context of the time. I knew there were several questions I had, but I didn't know that she was despised as much as Rush Limbaugh or Dick Cheney, so believe me, the past few days have been an eye opener.

So now that the question is, not whether we will support her for president, but if we will deport her or have her dragged to the guillotine, I find myself having to look for another candidate. I love Warren, but she is not running, and I love Bernie, but know that his campaign is means to give a clear voice to progressive policies. As I believe this is a very important election (Ruth Bader Ginsburg cannot sit on the bench forever), I am researching candidates.

As I know very little about Gov. Martin O'Malley, can someone who knows his record tell me why he is a piece of crap who should be spit on and hated by progressive Democrats? I don't want to make another mistake.

[immoderate]

1. Perhaps you're not all that progressive.

I personally prefer deportation to the guillotine. But opinions vary.

--imm

[Sarcastica]

4. So you kow nothing about O'Malley?

[immoderate]

14. You got me there. To me, O'Malley is a cipher.

I think he is a DLC type, like Hillary. Understand that I was around during the sixties. I see all the presidents since the late seventies as Reaganites. Reactionaries. YRMV.

Welcome to DU.

--imm

[FSogol]

25. O'Malley was never a member of the DLC.

He did address them with a speech once and addressed the staffers of the Third Way lobbying group. I've posted a link to his resume in this thread and it shows 30 some Democratic organizations he is a member of.

O'Malley is worthy of a closer look, IMO.

[immoderate]

66. Thanks for the info below.

I'm off to look him up.

--imm

[BillZBubb]

88. Fear the Turtle!

[frazzled]

52. 8-year mayor of major city and 8 year governor of a state ...

and he's a cipher? He's been in Democratic politics since the early 1980s (Gary Hart campaign) and while still in law school served as state field director for Barbara Mikulksi's successful Senate run.

So, active in Democratic politics for more than 30 years, 16 of them in executive offices. But he's a cipher.

Compare that to a recent senator from Massachusetts who did not even become a Democrat until age 47 and has been in public service for exactly 2 years. Not a cipher?

You decide.

[immoderate]

65. Yeah, silly me. He's mostly been under my radar. I didn't see "Breaking Bad" either.

Which of his accomplishments should I be aware of? I am not really a party (political) person. His emphasis sounds more intramural or local than would grab my attention.

--imm

[elleng]

84. Try these:

http://msa.maryland.gov/msa/mdmanual/08conoff/gov/former/html/msa13090.html


The bottom quarter is good reading on O'Malley's positions and what he accomplished in Maryland.

A former Governing Magazine “Public Official of the Year,” Governor O’Malley was re-elected in 2010. His 2013 legislative successes were described in a Baltimore Sun editorial as “without many parallels in recent Maryland history.”

With a balanced approach of spending cuts, regulatory reform, and modern investment in education, innovation, and infrastructure, Governor O’Malley and his Administration are making better choices that are delivering better results, including:

Fastest rate of job growth in the region.
#1 ranking for best public schools in America for an unprecedented five years in a row (Education Week).
#1 ranking for holding down the cost of college tuition (College Board).
#1 ranking for innovation and entrepreneurship for two years running (U.S. Chamber of Commerce).

Under the Governor’s leadership, Maryland also ranks:

#1 nationally in median income,
#1 in Ph.D. scientists and researchers per capita,
#1 in Research and Development, and
#1 in businesses owned by women.


Called “arguably the best manager in government” by Washington Monthly magazine, Governor O’Malley has cut State spending more than any previous governor in Maryland’s history, balancing these record cuts with targeted, modern investments in priorities like public education. He has reduced the size of government to its smallest size since 1973 (on a per capita basis) and reformed how it is managed, so that it works more efficiently and accountably. His actions to save Maryland’s State pension system have made it sustainable over the long term. His fiscal stewardship has nearly eliminated Maryland’s structural deficit. His efforts to streamline, consolidate and digitize processes like business licensing are making Maryland a better place to do business.




PS, part of a public informational archive and not bound by copyright.



The O’Malley-Brown Administration has expanded health care to more than 380,000 previously uninsured Marylanders. It has reduced infant mortality to an historic low, and provided meals to thousands of hungry children as it moves forward toward its goal for eradicating childhood hunger.

The Governor’s policies have made strides in restoring the health of the Chesapeake Bay and saving the Bay’s native blue crab and oyster populations.

The O’Malley Administration has secured millions of dollars in rate relief for Maryland energy consumers while jump-starting the creation of thousands of green energy sector jobs. Under Governor O’Malley’s leadership, Maryland led the charge for the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI), the nation’s first cap-and-trade auction of greenhouse emissions.

Governor O’Malley has cut income taxes for 86% of Marylanders and reformed Maryland’s tax code to make it more progressive. In addition, he signed the nation’s first statewide living wage law, along with some of the nation’s most comprehensive reforms to protect homeowners from foreclosure.

Declaring that Marylanders are bound together by “the common thread of human dignity,” Governor O’Malley signed legislation to protect individual civil marriage rights and religious freedom, along with legislation to protect voting rights. He signed – and successfully defended at the ballot box – the DREAM Act, which expands the opportunity of a college education to more Marylanders.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12774491#post28

[ReasonableToo]

91. props to you...

Thanks!

You inspired a rare OP by me just now...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251398071

[elleng]

92. Props to YOU!

There is no TOO Reasonable!!!

[FSogol]

27. See response #24 for info on O'Malley, Also,

welcome to DU and no, you don't have to hate HRC. She will most likely be the Democratic nominee.

[still_one]

8. Or perhaps you believe in the cutting off your nose to spite your face

Suggesting that a person is not progressive enough is bad taste

[immoderate]

17. Bad taste is timeless.

My response was facetiously tuned to the OP. Do DUers really suggest that Hillary be "deported or guillotined?"

--imm

[still_one]

19. got it. thanks

[Madmiddle]

56. you said guilotine.

I had a post taken down for it.

[immoderate]

68. Yeah, I'm quoting the OP.

Taken down -- for that?!

--imm

[stevenleser]

2. Well said. Please ignore the "no true scotsman" responses. They're not worth much. nt

[Caretha]

77. And let me add

Pay no attention to stevenleser, he knows not what he knows.

[stevenleser]

94. Lmao, obviously the "no true Scotsman" statement hit too close to home for you

[madfloridian]

3. You make good points. We tend to eat our own.

[leftofcool]

5. I lived in Maryland while O'Malley was Governor

He is a tax guy. Now, I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes and we pay a bunch. I write Mother IRS a big check every year as well as to my State but what he did to middle class home owners while he was Governor was a shame. When we had the recession and people in Maryland were forced to move away to find jobs and had to sell their homes, he taxed those of us who moved to another state to live extra on the sale of our homes just because we moved to another state. Not only did most people takes big losses on their homes, they had to pay another 10% on the sale of the home to the State of Maryland just because they moved. He tried to get the City of Annapolis to charge a sidewalk tax. That didn't go over as well. If O'Malley is the Dem nominee, I would vote for him but I am certainly not happy with all of his policies on taxes.

[Sarcastica]

7. Thanks. A good place to start, from someone who saw him as a local.

[crazylikafox]

41. Thank you Larry Hogan

[Tommy_Carcetti]

43. LOL

Sounds like my whining right wing friends from Maryland. Back when O'Malley was governor, I told them I was more than happy to trade Rick Scott for O'Malley.

[Lucky Luciano]

46. Carcetti - I thought you were the governor of Maryland?! nt

[erronis]

48. Me too - a MD resident during O'Malley

However I don't think I can blame the whole tax situation on one governor, nor the US tax code on a president.

The executives do have a lot of influence on bills and agendas but I don't believe they tell everybody how much taxes they have to pay. Maybe that belongs to the legislatures/appropriations?

[ReasonableToo]

82. Maryland mom says O'Malley inherited a mess from Ehrlich

She says she called and wrote to O'Malley's new office to ask where all the money Erlich claimed to have went. (Erlich is 1-term Republican that O'Malley ousted) They finally admitted that Erlich "cooked the books" and Maryland wasn't in as good shape as Erlich claimed during the campaign. Also, Maryland kept the sub-prime foreclosures at bay a little better than other states in the nation.

Not saying he's perfect. Am saying that like many Dems that take over after R's wreck a state, he was not starting off in a good position.

Looks like Maryland will go through this all again after Hogan (R) wrecks the state some more...he's another R that ran with blue signs and didn't mention being an R much. Similar to Scott Brown in MA. The "blue sign Republicans" often score enough votes from ignorant Dems to squeak by.

[elleng]

85. Thanks. I think you're right.

(I'm in MD now, and have liked him.)

This summarized the tax situation, what he found when he arrived, and what he did about it:

A big test came late in O’Malley’s first year, when he called lawmakers back to Annapolis to resolve a long-standing “structural deficit” in the budget, namely the state’s practice of planning to spend more money than forecasters expected it to collect in revenue.

O’Malley offered a package of tax increases and budget cuts, as well as a plan to raise additional revenue by legalizing slot machines — a poisonous issue for much of Ehrlich’s term.

Legislative leaders cautioned against holding such an ambitious special session — particularly with no guarantee of success. But O’Malley pushed through his entire package, with some bills squeaking by after debates that stretched into the wee hours. He had established himself as a force to be reckoned with, even though some efforts — such as repealing the death penalty — didn’t succeed right away.

In the end, there was no major O’Malley initiative that didn’t make it across the finish line. In some cases, he showed a willingness to compromise that frustrated his allies — like slowing the pace of pay increases in a minimum wage bill.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/in-defining-omalleys-legacy-liberal-successes-compete-with-tax-hikes/2015/01/19/5b951d4c-9d81-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html

[yeoman6987]

60. The rain tax was the worst. He gave the Republicans

The Governorship because of the very tax. Ever Democratic voters scratched their heads over that tax.

[still_one]

6. Don't confuse me with the facts

[dissentient]

9. You don't have to hate anyone you don't want to

There are plenty of Hillary fans on Du, I have noticed, and a couple of them are very vocal and combative about it.

[Fumesucker]

10. Welcome to DU!

You'll fit right in here.

[RiverLover]

12. I've seen his/her posts, I agree.

Very sarcastic, fits the name!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

11. That's ok.

Most of the people who are told they hate her are surprised to find out that they 'hate' her, because they never even suspected it until they were told by others.

[djean111]

13. You are, honestly, not "supposed" to hate anyone. That's a wee bit of hyperbole or something.

You have your own mind and your own opinions, and can wade in and agree or disagree with everyone else.
Right now, as far as the upcoming primary presidential politics goes, there is not really a "we" at DU.

Oh, and as far as I can tell, some of us hate her policies and political connections and positions. Not Hillary herself. Labeling any criticism or stating distaste for, say, the TPP does not mean one hates Hillary. That's just a cheap construct designed to marginalize and obfuscate.

[TBF]

15. ...

[upaloopa]

16. I guess you forgot to read the creed of the

Liberal progressive which is prominently posted at the entrance of this board.
It lists the official DU progressive opinion on every subject under the sun.
But don't worry. A number of DUers here will point out to you from time to time what your opinion should be. If not directly they will refer to you as holding right wing points of view if you get something wrong.

[leftofcool]

33. +1

[cyberswede]

18. Nobody is "supposed" to do anything on DU...

except support Democrats during election season.

And DUers have a wide variety of opinions; some people are more vocal than others (and some have been fighting with each other for years).

There are lots of places on DU where you can have fun.

Check out the Hillary Clinton group if you want warm fuzzies about her:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1107

Check out the Populist Reform group if you want to discuss polulism:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1277

Check out the Elizabeth Warren group if you want more positive discussions of her:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1265

There's no O'Malley group at present, but I'm sure one can be created if there's enough interest.

Take a look at all the groups under "Topics" on the left nav bar; lots of fun stuff there.

And finally, chill out in the Lounge: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1018

[Sarcastica]

20. Thanks for the help.

[Caretha]

75. You're welcome

I say that from the bottom of my heart. All here at DU are willing to help a "newbie", especially when they have a bad start and were unable to read a whole board full of different flavors of Democrats. I have found the far right & knuckle dragging Republicans that have that same problem with understanding the Democratic Party (we're known as the party that tires to "herd cats).

Democrats don't "hate" Hillary, they just don't agree with all of her political stances and are always willing to listen to other views.

Obviously you are a bit new to the "Dem Party Politics".

Have a nice stay.

[yuiyoshida]

101. Welcome to DU

[RKP5637]

76. Well said! n/t

[KamaAina]

21. Welcome aboard!

I'm not sure HRC is quite in the same league as Cheney or the OxyMoron. But she is far from my favorite Dem. And besides Bernie, most of the other names being floated are pretty weak, too. Jim Webb? Andrew Cuomo?

[McCamy Taylor]

22. K&R, But be careful. Folks take their Hillary Hatred very seriously

and are unlikely to see the humor in your piece.

[PatrickforO]

23. You're not supposed to do anything here, let alone

hate Hillary Clinton. The national government is what it is, and many are discovering that the most progress in quality of life can be made locally.

For many here, Secretary Clinton seems no better than the lesser of evils, but whatever we might think, when the primary is over, we all need to get behind the winner for the general election, because whomever the Republicans decide to run....

DAMN!

[politicman]

103. I call bullshit to yoru statement.

If we got behind every nominee that they third-way democrats threw up, then we are no better off than what the 1% want us to be.

The only way to affect change is to do it the hard way.

By rejecting corporate backed candidates like Hillary, we will eventually get through the pain of successive GOP presidency, and have an actual true progressive sit in the white house.

We need to decouple ourselves from the 1% and their money, and actually win voters through ideas and policies that will attract them to us in droves, this is the ONLY way that we will end up with candidates that look after the 99% instead of the 1%.

Besides, we live in a democracy and if you look around the world, you would see that there is no way to keep the opposition from ever winning control of the country at some stage.
We see it every where we look, parties get elected and the public always tires of that party and eventually elects the opposition.

So we might as well make the most out of the time that we get to be in office by actually advancing and enacting progressive ideas and policies that help the 99% because when we eventually lose office like every country in the world does, we will at least have made some progress for the 99%.

And Hillary will not do this for us, she will carry water for the 1% who are donating heavily to her because they know something that many of you don't.

Always follow the most amount of money, that will tell you everything about a candidate.

[bettyellen]

108. We are still suffering from pain of previous GOP presidencies

If you're thinking more of that is no big deal, that the Supreme Court doesn't matter, then I'd have to guess you're not a woman or POC- and all your issues are economic ones.

[FSogol]

24. Here's info on O'Malley

For people unaware of O'Malley, here's his resume:

http://msa.maryland.gov/msa/mdmanual/08conoff/gov/former/html/msa13090.html

The bottom quarter is good reading on O'Malley's positions and what he accomplished in Maryland.

A former Governing Magazine “Public Official of the Year,” Governor O’Malley was re-elected in 2010. His 2013 legislative successes were described in a Baltimore Sun editorial as “without many parallels in recent Maryland history.”

With a balanced approach of spending cuts, regulatory reform, and modern investment in education, innovation, and infrastructure, Governor O’Malley and his Administration are making better choices that are delivering better results, including:

Fastest rate of job growth in the region.
#1 ranking for best public schools in America for an unprecedented five years in a row (Education Week).
#1 ranking for holding down the cost of college tuition (College Board).
#1 ranking for innovation and entrepreneurship for two years running (U.S. Chamber of Commerce).

Under the Governor’s leadership, Maryland also ranks:

#1 nationally in median income,
#1 in Ph.D. scientists and researchers per capita,
#1 in Research and Development, and
#1 in businesses owned by women.


Called “arguably the best manager in government” by Washington Monthly magazine, Governor O’Malley has cut State spending more than any previous governor in Maryland’s history, balancing these record cuts with targeted, modern investments in priorities like public education. He has reduced the size of government to its smallest size since 1973 (on a per capita basis) and reformed how it is managed, so that it works more efficiently and accountably. His actions to save Maryland’s State pension system have made it sustainable over the long term. His fiscal stewardship has nearly eliminated Maryland’s structural deficit. His efforts to streamline, consolidate and digitize processes like business licensing are making Maryland a better place to do business.

PS, part of a public informational archive and not bound by copyright.

The O’Malley-Brown Administration has expanded health care to more than 380,000 previously uninsured Marylanders. It has reduced infant mortality to an historic low, and provided meals to thousands of hungry children as it moves forward toward its goal for eradicating childhood hunger.

The Governor’s policies have made strides in restoring the health of the Chesapeake Bay and saving the Bay’s native blue crab and oyster populations.

The O’Malley Administration has secured millions of dollars in rate relief for Maryland energy consumers while jump-starting the creation of thousands of green energy sector jobs. Under Governor O’Malley’s leadership, Maryland led the charge for the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI), the nation’s first cap-and-trade auction of greenhouse emissions.

Governor O’Malley has cut income taxes for 86% of Marylanders and reformed Maryland’s tax code to make it more progressive. In addition, he signed the nation’s first statewide living wage law, along with some of the nation’s most comprehensive reforms to protect homeowners from foreclosure.

Declaring that Marylanders are bound together by “the common thread of human dignity,” Governor O’Malley signed legislation to protect individual civil marriage rights and religious freedom, along with legislation to protect voting rights. He signed – and successfully defended at the ballot box – the DREAM Act, which expands the opportunity of a college education to more Marylanders.

Mother Jones magazine also called him the best candidate environmentally.

[Sarcastica]

107. Thanks for the info.

I failed to say thanks in the din of the argument.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

26. "although I could understand in the context of the time"

How could you understand? Everyone outside of the powers that be had an entirely different context that caused us to NOT understand why Hillary voted for the IRW.

So, please explain how you could understand her vote given the "context of the time". Thanks, in advance.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. So far this Party has nominated for President or Vice President 3 Iraq War Yes voters and not one

who voted No. In addition, Obama who was not around to vote either way and says he would have voted No has appointed many IWR Yes voters to high office, including Republicans who voted Yes. He has not appointed one No voter to his cabinet.
This means that this Party has already asked me to vote for and to support IWR Yes voters from both Parties, repeatedly. Kerry as candidate renounced marriage equality, Edwards railed against it until his own impropriety came to light. Chuck Hagel was openly hostile to gay people, voted for the Iraq War Resolution, is a Republican and Obama put him in charge of defense. Biden, another Yes voter, ran shouting that he agreed with Sarah Palin that gay marriage was against Goddy God. He's the VP. Voted Yes.
They were all wrong. But they all got rewarded, those who were correct got punished. This is long established fact. Our Party even rewards Republicans for voting yes on the IWR.

[libdem4life]

64. All very good points. I had not figured that out. Does kind of sound like a gender, Clinton-

pre-biased bee in the bonnet.

While on the Hillary subject, I doubt that she has ever used the terms ... it's her time, it's due her, she's inevitable, et al. That's also become wearying. See last paragraph.

[Jim Lane]

96. You find gender bias only by comparing apples and oranges.

In 2004, I greatly admired John Kerry, but I voted against him in the Democratic primary. His IWR vote was a big part of the reason. I knew that Dennis Kucinich wouldn't win but I voted for him on principle.

Yes, I voted for the Kerry-Edwards ticket in November. Despite their error on IWR, they were vastly better than the Republicans.

In 2008, I voted for Barack Obama in the Democratic primary and of course in November. He had not been in office to vote on IWR but he had denounced the war that Hillary Clinton supported. If the Democratic nominee had been Clinton, I would have voted for her in November, because she was vastly better than McCain.

In 2016, I expect to vote against Clinton in the Democratic primary. Her IWR vote will be a big part of the reason. In November, if she is the nominee, I'll almost certainly vote for her. Despite her error on IWR, she'll be vastly better than the Republican candidate.

I don't see any gender bias there. I've treated men and women the same.

You're answering a post that points out how supporters of the Iraq War have been rewarded. That's unfortunately all too true. There should have been more accountability. People who demonstrated bad judgment in the face of that jingoistic fervor should have that fact held against them. That it hasn't happened enough so far is no excuse for burying the whole issue in 2016 -- quite the contrary.

[Orsino]

28. There are some deeper questions you could also be asking.

Besides all the venting and deliberate distractions, you'll soon find that people often have substantial policy-related reasons to support a candidate or not, and that not everyone gets on a bandwagon at the same time. Indeed, no one even expects the candidates to post at all on DU, which it turns out is a forum for interacting with other Democrats.

Best wishes to you as you begin the process of vetting the candidates.

[hrmjustin]

29. Welcome aboard and enjoy the site.

[TheKentuckian]

30. If opposing a person's candidacy for President is hate then what is love?

Project whatever emotions on politicians you please.

[daredtowork]

31. Gosh I'm tired of the constant spam of Hillary Hate Strawman posts

Hillary is the forerunner and has been pushed on DU as inevitable from Day One. Convincing "victim" she does not make. Especially from someone with 39 posts.

[Hekate]

51. Really? You mean there was not an OP saying she's vomit-inducing? With 179 Recs?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12774035



Maybe the newbie just has good eyesight.

[Caretha]

81. And maybe you are

myopic.

[Hekate]

83. Reading comprehension. Always a plus.

[stevenleser]

95. If you want to see some unintended comedy and someone making themselves look bad

See my #2 above and that persons response to it. Talk about outing yourself as exactly the kind of person I'm talking about.

[Number23]

89. To use your phrase -- Jesus Christ on a trailer hitch

So much unhinged crazy in one thread. I am so glad that I missed that one.

I said in another thread that the hosts and participants in the HRC forum are about to see FIRST HAND the fresh hell that BOG hosts and participants have had to endure for the last seven years. They are feeling it already and she hasn't even announced her intention of running.

Hard to remember that the first name on this web site is DEMOCRATIC Underground, huh??

[Maedhros]

55. Yeah, I'm just putting those people on ignore now.

Anyone who pushed the "Hillary Hatred" meme is not arguing in good faith - so why indulge them?

[arcane1]

32. I guess you also didn't know that these dishonest smear posts are getting old

[Buzz Clik]

35. LOL! +1

You stated it far better than I.

[Buzz Clik]

34. Keep in mind that not everyone posting here is a fellow "liberal progressive"

We are awash with trolls from rightwing cesspools who take great delight in fucking with us while being protected by DU rules.

And, also keep in mind that DUers are not a representative pool of liberal progressives. There are some good minds here, but we have no shortage of idiots who stand for nothing and haven't a clue.

[m-lekktor]

36. I see many more threads complaining about criticism than actual criticism

so it looks like you are being a tad bit "selective" over what you are focusing on to complain about. the thin skinned crowd here will welcome you with open arms!

[MadDAsHell]

37. HRC will be the nominee. Keep in mind that there's an entire segment of the population...

...for whom the "historicalness" of their vote is the most important part of the process for them.

Remember 2008? I can't tell you how many friends of mine posted Facebook pictures of themselves filling out their ballot for Barack Obama because it was an extremely proud moment for them that they were voting for an African-American candidate, and they wanted everyone to know about it. Heck, we're all liberal progressives and yet I think some of them would have voted for Alan Keyes if that's what it took to make the "historic" vote.

Now we've got the same thing approaching in 2016. For these folks, they checked the "African-American box" off their list 8 years ago and now it's on to the "Female" box. The 2016 candidate's gender is THE deciding factor in their vote. As in 2008, they're crazy; I think some of these folks would vote in Palin if need be, it's all about what the candidate does (or doesn't) have between their legs. Nevermind their positional stances, their background/experience, etc.

Unfortunately, I don't think Warren will have the money to make it to the final few, and so of those who do, HRC will be the nominee, as the voting bloc I described is larger than I think anyone imagines.

[Jackpine Radical]

38. I find the tone of your OP rather annoying, but

if you actually have any interest in O'Malley beyond his momentary snark value, permit me to refer you to this piece:

http://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/maryland/about-big-chicken-omalley/

[Sarcastica]

61. thanks that's the sort of thing i was hoping to get.

[mahina]

106. And Fsogol's post 24 above too?

[ananda]

39. I don't hate Sec Clinton either!

She'll have my vote if she's the nominee.

BTW, I just ignore all the Clinton threads.
I do my own reading and thinking.

[old guy]

42. I'm with you.

[99Forever]

40. That's not too passive/aggressive at all.

[wryter2000]

44. Welcome to DU

Don't let the haters get you down.

[RandiFan1290]

45. Welcome Back!

[TBF]

71. ...

[City Lights]

49. You're not "supposed" to do anything.

You are your own person and are free to like or dislike anyone, including politicians.

[GitRDun]

50. Absolutely ridiculous OP

You do NOT have to hate Hillary Clinton just to be a proper member of DU.

Certainly she has her detractors here.

I'm not a big fan myself.

However, flame-throwing the board with OP's like this one does not advance the discussion.

[truedelphi]

70. aLthough the discussion does make me wonder how the word

Progressive can be utilized in the same sentence as the name Hillary Clinton.

Granted if you look to her record on abortion she is progressive, but then so was Ahnold Schwartzennegger. Ditto her stance on immigration, or civil rights, including the rights of the LGBT crowd to marry.

But her overall stance on Big Business, endless wars, favoritism of Big Banking policies over people etc, does make me wonder how FDR would view the current day Democratic Party.

[GitRDun]

72. I agree everything you said is an issue

I just don't like the presumption in the OP.

You can love Hillary and comfortably exist on DU.

She has many detractors here, but so what? So does Obama...

[Maedhros]

53. We're just different kind of people.

You're the kind of person that can overlook a lot of fundamentally horrid policy choices by your candidate because you want to win.

I'm the kind of person that wants someone who hasn't committed a lot of fundamentally horrid policy choices to win.

[NancyDL]

54. Not everyone here hates Secretary Clinton

There are a lot of trolls on here that would love to see her go down, though.

[Roy Rolling]

57. Get with the program

Get with the program, Sarcastica. you'll like who we tell you to like and you'll hate who we tell you to hate.

Otherwise, go to one of those forums where you like what they tell you to like and hate what they tell you to hate.

Oh, wait. I got that messed up. It's "fool me once shame on ...." oh forget it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. I don't hate Hillary. I just don't want her as president and won't vote for her.

[Tarheel_Dem]

59. Remember this is board where Dennis Kucinich could win a preference poll handily. Just for....

context. So, I wouldn't sweat it much.

[BainsBane]

62. Last thing you should ever do

Is mistake posts on this board as representative of anything.

[ScreamingMeemie]

63. I wouldn't take a bunch of squeaky (and I mean super squeaky in some cases) wheels

seriously. Ever.

[LiberalLovinLug]

67. Flame Baiter

This is the type of OP that is stupid, useless, and only invites overblown reactions from those they pander to.
It strongly implies with a passive aggressive tone, that if you find disconcerting Hillary's positions, friends, voting record, or deafening silence on important issues like Wall Street reform, NSA civilian spying, Patriot Act, drone attacks, etc., then you must have some irrational HATRED for her.

Its called holding the front running candidates (to be) feet to the fire. Especially since it seems she is already coronated. Its not the crime you make it out to be. You joined a mostly progressive/liberal member board. This includes right of center DLC third way supporters to radical socialists. Its a big tent and unlike the GOP, maybe unfortunately in some ways, we don't all walk in lockstep and believe everything one "news" network tells us to believe. Its tougher on this side, because as free thinking liberals we LIKE to be able to have and use the freedom to expound upon our own nuances of opinion.

I imagine most everyone here that rightfully questions the motives of Hillary's positions and silences, will, even holding their noses, vote for her in the end. That doesn't mean shutting our ears, eyes, and mouths until then. Hillary should know, if she is ever aware of liberal news boards, just what concerns the base has moving forward, at the very least, so she understands that we will be watching.

[carolinayellowdog]

69. appropriate username

for the ignore list

[Lancero]

73. A lot of the AH group base their 'reasoning' against Hillary with sexism.

This post, by tularetom, is the basis for a lot of anti-hiliary folks reasoning.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6255478

The post was alerted on, and proving my point further a jury left it to stand.

Secondly, a topic made by Ramses.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6239206

Noticably lacking in gender rights, equality, and other related issues. He got called out on it a few times, but refused to answer to it.

MIRT got rid of him, but his post was a good example on just how worthless equality issues are to a lot of the AH group.

Though, the most concerning thing is the number of people who would rather see a Republican in office then Hillary. A number have stated, and tried convincing others, to sit this election out if Hillary is the nominee.

[CK_John]

74. Not to worry Mr Sarcastic the current odds are on Walker not HRC.

[Kath1]

78. I certainly don't hate Hillary.

I just think we can do better.

If she is the nominee, I'll be voting for Hillary rather than any Republican out there.

I live in Maryland and I really don't think O'Malley can win.

[bhikkhu]

79. Please feel free to not hate anyone - and we need more like you

I tend to be a bit of a contrarian, in that the more I see someone smeared and hated - who, most importantly doesn't hate in return (ruling out RWr's) - the more inclined I am to defend and support that person. I've never been a big fan of Hillary, but I'd likely support her rather than join in a chorus of argle-blarg.

[elleng]

80. Thanks for asking, and welcome.

It takes a while go get the drift around here, and to know what to ignore.

No one here is expected to hate Sec. Clinton; we take our own positions about her.

Martin O'Malley is NOT a piece of crap; he was my governor until recently, and I liked him. His record, summarized:

http://msa.maryland.gov/msa/mdmanual/08conoff/gov/former/html/msa13090.html


The bottom quarter is good reading on O'Malley's positions and what he accomplished in Maryland.

A former Governing Magazine “Public Official of the Year,” Governor O’Malley was re-elected in 2010. His 2013 legislative successes were described in a Baltimore Sun editorial as “without many parallels in recent Maryland history.”

With a balanced approach of spending cuts, regulatory reform, and modern investment in education, innovation, and infrastructure, Governor O’Malley and his Administration are making better choices that are delivering better results, including:

Fastest rate of job growth in the region.
#1 ranking for best public schools in America for an unprecedented five years in a row (Education Week).
#1 ranking for holding down the cost of college tuition (College Board).
#1 ranking for innovation and entrepreneurship for two years running (U.S. Chamber of Commerce).

Under the Governor’s leadership, Maryland also ranks:

#1 nationally in median income,
#1 in Ph.D. scientists and researchers per capita,
#1 in Research and Development, and
#1 in businesses owned by women.


Called “arguably the best manager in government” by Washington Monthly magazine, Governor O’Malley has cut State spending more than any previous governor in Maryland’s history, balancing these record cuts with targeted, modern investments in priorities like public education. He has reduced the size of government to its smallest size since 1973 (on a per capita basis) and reformed how it is managed, so that it works more efficiently and accountably. His actions to save Maryland’s State pension system have made it sustainable over the long term. His fiscal stewardship has nearly eliminated Maryland’s structural deficit. His efforts to streamline, consolidate and digitize processes like business licensing are making Maryland a better place to do business.




PS, part of a public informational archive and not bound by copyright.



The O’Malley-Brown Administration has expanded health care to more than 380,000 previously uninsured Marylanders. It has reduced infant mortality to an historic low, and provided meals to thousands of hungry children as it moves forward toward its goal for eradicating childhood hunger.

The Governor’s policies have made strides in restoring the health of the Chesapeake Bay and saving the Bay’s native blue crab and oyster populations.

The O’Malley Administration has secured millions of dollars in rate relief for Maryland energy consumers while jump-starting the creation of thousands of green energy sector jobs. Under Governor O’Malley’s leadership, Maryland led the charge for the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI), the nation’s first cap-and-trade auction of greenhouse emissions.

Governor O’Malley has cut income taxes for 86% of Marylanders and reformed Maryland’s tax code to make it more progressive. In addition, he signed the nation’s first statewide living wage law, along with some of the nation’s most comprehensive reforms to protect homeowners from foreclosure.

Declaring that Marylanders are bound together by “the common thread of human dignity,” Governor O’Malley signed legislation to protect individual civil marriage rights and religious freedom, along with legislation to protect voting rights. He signed – and successfully defended at the ballot box – the DREAM Act, which expands the opportunity of a college education to more Marylanders.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12774491#post28

[awoke_in_2003]

86. There are several groups here...

one is very vocally pro-Clinton, and think if you don't support everything she does you are bad and hate America. There is another group that is very vocally anti-Clinton, and if you support everything she does you are bad and hate America. Then there are the majority of us that are somewhere in the middle. Personally, she isn't my first choice, but she will get my vote if, and when, she wins the primary. I tend to be very liberal, but I think that I, and most of the rest of us (some very liberal, some not) get drowned out by a very loud minority.

on edit: welcome to DU

[HuckleB]

87. You're supposed to hate science, too!

And the poor be damned! Whatever the honky wealthy people tell you to eat, that's what you must eat, or ELSE!

DU is a crazy place.

[99Forever]

90. Over the top hyperbole much?

The drive to belittle anyone who dares to not accept "The Inevitable One" without question, is in full swing.

[Rex]

93. Kewl story bro!

[Autumn]

104. Real Kewl. Lacking in logic and so....

very familiar. Some are just masters at flame baiting.

[Scuba]

97. You're not "supposed to" hate Hillary or anyone else. On the other hand, there's lots of us here ..

... who hate the policies that Hillary embraces. She's pro-war, pro-Wall Street, pro-H1B Visas, pro-XL Pipeline for starters. If you're a liberal progressive, you should despise those policies.

[B Calm]

98. I love Ruth Ginsburg, but I wish she would retire before the next election.

I been around here long enough to know if Hillary Clinton ends up being our nominee, DU will circle the wagons and fight for her!

[sendero]

99. i doubt that anyone here..

.... "despises" her like they do Limbaugh or Cheney. There is a contingent here that doesn't want her in the White House, owing mainly to her corporatist and neocon tendencies.

Her husband either had a hand in or actively championed the following, ALL of which turned out to be disastrous for middle class and working class Americans. There is little doubt she had a hand in this also as it was widely considered at the time that she was very active Bill's decision making process. These were bad decisions for Americans and we don't need more of them.

NAFTA
"free" trade with China
the end of "welfare as we know it"
the Telecommuncations act
the repeal of Glass-Stegall (a particularly horrible idea that has had immeasurably bad results)
the Commodity Futures Modernization Act (set the stage for the shadow banking system that will eventually fail and take the whole economy with it)

Those are off the top of my head, there is more. With "friends" like this who needs Republicans? In my opinion, Clinton was every bit as bad to most Americans as Reagan, and that is NOT hyperbole.

Pretending that the opposition to a Clinton presidency is just some misplaced grudge or not based on reality is often done around here, but nobody who understands this record and what has come from it should have to further justify their opposition.

[karynnj]

100. This sounds more like something written by a Hillary Clinton supporter who has been around for years

By that, I am not saying that I can identify any patterns that point to this being a sock puppet.

However, it accepts hook, line and sinker the view that Hillary Clinton is hated --- even as this op says at the level of Rush Limbaugh. That is completely ridiculous. Please show me even ONE long time DU poster who puts Clinton on the same level as Limbaugh.

Look at the main HRC this week. I am one of the people who thinks that HRC's arrogance in how she handled her email as SoS was a huge political miscalculation. Transparency in government has been a huge issue for years -- something advocated for running for office - then in office considered unnecessary or something that could make life harder.

Ignoring comments of whether this was 100% legal or not, the question is what impression does this convey politically:

- It gives credibility to Republicans arguing that the SD stonewalled on giving them HRC's emails - as they only had ones that were sent to state.gov accounts. It might be on some requests that these might be all the relevant documents, but there could be others where emails to people not on state.gov should have been sent. This is aggravated learning that at least one top aide (Rep Weiner's wife Huma) also had her account on HRC's server.

- Consider that as HRC selected what the SD got, the Republicans will claim that the smoking gun that they were looking for was removed.

- The HRC political move to give access to all 55,000 pages is political - will cost the SD a huge amount of people/time - and it is really all done for politics.

- One of the most negative memes that have followed HRC, from the time as First Lady on is that she is secretive - even when there is no reason to be. This extends from dragging her feet on actually getting info out on Whitewater (where they did nothing illegal) to her secretive committee that wrote the Clinton healthcare bill.

In addition, the thing to think of is that even if there was absolutely no problem with HRC controlling her emails - not just when they were written - but for up to 6 years later. The SD related emails belong to the SD - and as noted are open to Congressional inquiries and to FOIA requests to the SD.

Consider that she could have had a process that - each month, gave the SD the month's emails. At worst, she could have given the SD all the SD emails shortly after she left office.

This problem is compounded because there were many VERY PUBLIC requests to the SD that obviously should have had some of these emails. (Because they DID have all emails where the other end was state.gov - it likely was not immediately obvious that her email had not been searched. This will mean that a huge number of inquiries/FOIA may have to be redone.

[LWolf]

102. I don't hate anyone.

That includes Republicans.

I support or oppose politicians based on their positions and record on issues. Opposing a person politically is not hate.

I appreciate HRC's work and positions on at least one issue: women's rights. I oppose her because of her positions and record on most of the rest.

I think Martin O'Malley is a strong, interesting contender, but his connections with the neo-liberal "New Democrats" is a negative mark, as are some of his other policies. There are a few issues that are deal-breaking lines in the sand for me, and he's on the wrong side on both of those issues.

1. Education: he supports high-stakes testing, and privatization schemes in the form of charter schools. That is a line I'm not crossing. I'm a teacher. I've taught through the years of both Republican and Democratic attacks and destructive education policies. This is one I won't back down from.

2. Trade/labor: he's a free-trader.

At this point, O'Malley is not the candidate for me. I'll support a candidate who gets the issues right.

[MrMickeysMom]

105. Welcome to DU...

… This thread certainly seems to be producing SOME objective POV, which is what you'll eventually get.