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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsParents upset 'Black Lives Matter' assembly excludes other races
A Black History Month event at Oak Park and River Forest High School may have kick-started a schoolwide discussion on race — but not in the way school officials intended.
Several white parents, none of whom would speak on the record, expressed confusion and dismay that their children were prevented from participating in a "Black Lives Matter" event Feb. 27 that was limited to black students only.
"
Some) students and parents expressed confusion and concern about the event being for black students only," the release said. "Information about the event lacked clarity about this aspect of the conversation, and the high school is committed to improving communications in the future."
The white parents reported that their students were turned away when they tried to attend the Black Lives Matter event. The parents said they were offended that in a school and community that prides itself on diversity and inclusion that students who wanted to attend would be excluded.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/oak-park/news/ct-oak-black-lives-matter-tl-0312-20150306-story.html
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aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)
marym625
(17,997 posts)Not gonna lie. I'm confused. I think I agree with the principal. However, I think there should have then been a second, or extended event, to include everyone. Not being allowed to support doesn't help.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Or how doing so would help anything...
Rex
(65,616 posts)pipoman
(16,038 posts)Through segregation...not a new idea...
kwassa
(23,340 posts)You certainly didn't understand what the principal was trying to do through affinity groupings.
marym625
(17,997 posts)The affinity group has merit. Open discussion is just going to be more honest that way. But I don't think it should be the only thing.
When an oppressed group can speak freely they're going to be more open. White people say whatever the hell they want without fear of repercussions. Maybe some verbal crap thrown at them but they don't have to worry about actual repercussions. Same with men. Both are pretty obvious just by the laws Republicans have passed and the voter suppression that is happening since the VRA was dismantled.
So I get it. But I think complete exclusion hurts more than helps
Rex
(65,616 posts)NOT harping on the white parents or making any kind of excuse for the school (I don't think this was intentional), but they expressed dismay...yet it is easily washed away when they return home with their kids. In some places POC live with that dismay when they go to bed and wake up the next day for the rest of their lives. So unintentionally those folks got a taste of what it is like to be discriminated against.
Just a taste, we white folks are still the lucky bunch.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)about white privilege.
Rex
(65,616 posts)No doubt I will get lectured for...oh wait, already happened. 
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)but, there is nothing that would prevent white privilege to be taught in the white affinity groupings.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)I appreciate that.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Crowing that some kids deserve to experience racism because of the color of their skin.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)Just that they experienced something they normally wouldn't have, and that hopefully they were able to learn from it.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)The other side is already so good at divide and conquer, then we give them ammunition like this. Some will never learn.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Is it any wonder why the activist left is in trouble? We have a major image problem that not many people are willing to address at this point.
Spazito
(55,500 posts)"Black Lives Matter" yet there is nothing in the article that indicates why the students wanted to attend at all, I found that odd that the parents refused to speak "on the record" about their concerns.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Spazito
(55,500 posts)wanted to support "Black Lives Matter". The complaint from the anonymous parents was that their students were excluded. The students could well have wanted to push back rather than support. We don't know.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)don't you think? There have been "Black Lives Matter" events all over the country in recent weeks. Have they been inundated with counter-protesters? Have there been any?
Did the parents complaining indicate their students were opposed to the event? Are they expressing opposition to it even now?
Don't you think they might have mentioned that when given the opportunity to comment?
One thing missing from the article is whether the principal made his "affinity group" strategy clear when announcing the event. At the very least, if he managed to hold an event at which people did not know they would be excluded on the basis of their apparent race, he wasn't very smart about it.
Spazito
(55,500 posts)Did the parents indicate their students supported the event? No. Don't you think they would have been proud to state their and their students support when given the opportunity to comment? See how that works.
You do have a point on whether the principal's plan, having "affinity group" gatherings with each of the racial groups culminating in a gathering bringing all groups together, was made clear prior to the "Black Lives Matter" gathering. It isn't addressed in the article and that is another unfortunate gap.
I think the principal's plan was admirable, it's unfortunate it has been misunderstood. I hope now that it's clear the intent of the planned gatherings, they will still go ahead.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Sorry, but it's not equally likely they were there to complain. It does not "work" that way, unless you're being deliberately obtuse.
I also don't think a "whites only" meeting about "black lives matter" is a good idea, nor a "hispanic only" meeting, nor do I think they will get much attendance at anything like that.
I think the principal could have made a case for a special meeting for black students, and a separate school-wide assembly, but fracturing the entire message into single-race groups is pretty bizarre and is going to continue to confuse and alienate peolple.
Spazito
(55,500 posts)I could be wrong on that assumption. I get you don't support the principal's methods, I do so we will have to agree to disagree on that one.
Were Chicago a bastion of racial tolerance and understanding, my cynicism may well have been less but incidents like the one in the link I am including in my post tells me my cynicism is very valid.
Students: University Of Chicago's Racist Halloween Costume Controversy Is Part Of A Larger Problem
CHICAGO -- Students at the University of Chicago say a recent controversy surrounding a racially insensitive Halloween costume is only a small part of the school's larger "culture of intolerance."
The controversy began when third-year Vincente Perez confronted a student dressed in a costume that stereotypes Mexicans and later spoke out over a photo he saw on social media featuring more students in similar getups. After he and other students of color presented their concerns in a letter to university officials and started a Change.org petition calling for greater cultural diversity and sensitivity on campus, Perez was named in a threatening Facebook update posted by a supposedly hacked account.
snip
A number of other racial incidents have taken place on the University of Chicago campus and drawn criticism in recent years, including the creation of a “Politically Incorrect UChicago Confessions” Facebook page and a Confederate flag being hung on campus. Critics of the university previously pointed out that no one ended up being punished for the past incidents, according to campus newspaper The Chicago Maroon.
On Thursday, the school's Organization of Black Students also issued a statement of solidarity with “all victims of intolerance, marginalization, and targeted personal attacks” at the campus.
“While some may be inclined to perceive this most recent event as an isolated incident, this is instead the latest iteration of a historical trend of antagonism, symptomatic of a broader culture of intolerance,” the statement continued.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/21/university-of-chicago-facebook-threat_n_6199892.html
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)let you inside? Because that's how counter-protests work in You're Making All This Up Land.
Maybe the principal told everyone this was how he was going to do it, and they missed it. But it wasn't a band of counter-protesting white high school students turned away at the door.
Nobody thinks that, including you.
Spazito
(55,500 posts)It is clear you dislike the very idea of affinity groups, I support them.
When one has a willing media ready to give voice to one's protests, as is what happened in this case, standing outside the venue is unnecessary.
Why do you think the parents wanted to remain anonymous? Maybe they thought other parents' would be against the support for "Black Lives Matter" you seem to think they were determined to support?
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Your theory is that white high school students who came to a Black Lives Matter meeting and were turned away at the door on the basis of their race were secret counter-protestors. You doubled down and offered that activists counter-protest all the time.
I just asked whether, in your experience, counter-protestors meekly go home when the event they are counter-prostesting closes the door. You know they don't, but for some reason won't let go of the point.
You made up a nonsense point, and instead of thinking about it more carefully, are doing weird doughnuts trying to make it work.
As for your frantic attempt at deflection, I do support affinity groups in a general sense, but I also think this principal's application of that concept is extremely ill-advised in a high school setting and dumbfoundingly badly executed where school officials actually turned away students from a school event on the basis of their race. That's not how affinity groups work. How he even thought that would go well or be well received is beyond me.
You don't hold a public meeting -- especially one for kids -- and then put a racial bar on the door. And he's going to make a "white affinity group" later? Really? Do you support white affinity groups? Because usually we call those "racist organizations." Is he going to bar black and hispanic students from the door at those meetings too? How do you think that will go over?
His approach is just silly, and will be extremely alienating and confusing for everyone that came trying to support Black Lives Matter, which, by the way, has been a completely diverse effort nationwide until this minor fiasco conducted by this well-intentioned but thoroughly inept high school principal.
Spazito
(55,500 posts)As I stated in a previous post and providing the link I did, racial discrimination against minorities, historically and at present, is the reason for my cynicism.
I answered your question, you just didn't like my answer.
It is clear you and I see this very differently and that is obviously not going to change so further discussion is superfluous.
Have a good day!
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I do support affinity groups in a general sense, but I also think this principal's application of that concept is extremely ill-advised in a high school setting and dumbfoundingly badly executed where school officials actually turned away students from a school event on the basis of their race. That's not how affinity groups work. How he even thought that would go well or be well received is beyond me.
You don't hold a public meeting -- especially one for kids -- and then put a racial bar on the door. And he's going to make a "white affinity group" later? Really? Do you support white affinity groups? Because usually we call those "racist organizations." Is he going to bar black and hispanic students from the door at those meetings too? How do you think that will go over?
Why can't an affinity group work in a high school setting? As long as the concept and intent is explained up front, there is no problem. The point of the affinity group is to draw people that share some common quality together, with the eventual goal of sharing everything with everyone at the school, in another meeting. These affinity groups are racial, but not racist. No one will be excluded from giving their opinion at the final meeting, or at the meeting for their affinity group. What is the problem here?
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)is that the very people that need to hear, learn and potentially empathize with the discrimination the black students encounter daily are the ones that were excluded from the event.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)This, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly what certain types of SJW bullshit has lead to. Exclusionary actions(those based on ethnicity, religion, etc., that is.) have never done a damn bit good for *any* progressive movement. Not once. I think if MLK were still alive today, he'd have been terribly disappointed by this conduct. *Shameful*.
Honestly, is it any wonder that the activist left is still in trouble? 
alp227
(33,282 posts)I can't quite decide who's more annoying and arrogant, SJW's or evangelical Christians.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I'm guessing the principal is one of those "all whites are racists" folks.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Hey! Mixed blacks are BLACK. Ask the police. Read about one drop rules before you make offensive jokes like that. It is very racially insensitive.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)you know, liberals.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It was just soooo stupid, you know? Very ignorant.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I only went for like a few months and I managed to learn that. As a child.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)
Number23
(24,544 posts)of all liberalism, in thought, practice and beliefs.
And when you point out to them how terribly often and completely these "liberals" sound like libertarians or straight up Tea Partiers, get ready for the blustering, denials and sputtering.
And they wonder why historically, most minorities see a dime's worth of difference between these "liberals" and conservatives.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)There are probably some mixed race kids at that school. What if a kid's partial black ancestry was not obvious?
Or all these questions could be avoided by, you know, not discriminating by race.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)My husband is probably whiter than you, and he black. Mama was german. Even my daughter goes red head in the summer. Black people come in all colors.
If there is any race discrimination it AGAINST black folks. By ignorant folks who then claim reverse racism and cry about not being inculded in black stuff even theough they could give two shits if black people are included fully in society.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)to decide who to ban from an assembly based upon their race. Sorry.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Tell me about affinity groups.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)People like you are relics.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And I don't make an exception for kids being banned from assemblies for being too white.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Only about white kids not getting to go to an assembly. Why don't you care about the black kids and all the times they get left out? Do you even like black people?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)But the remedy is not to have school assemblies that ban students of certain races from attending.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I DO, however see you bitch and moan about reverse discrimination. It is bizzare and i laugh at you because you are a relic of the past.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Here is just one example:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5406761
kwassa
(23,340 posts)As a tactic for facilitating community discussion, how do you feel about it? Note that he was going to do this with all different groups.
"In order for us to move forward, I believe the affinity group is the safe way for us to move forward in a safe environment," he said.
Rouse said as a black man, he knows firsthand that it can be challenging to be open in a mixed-race group.
"I found it has been far easier for me to talk about my experiences with racism with individuals that look like me," he said. "I still struggle myself with talking about my experiences with people who don't look like me."
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I don't think that's a good idea, either.
Look, I think this guy's heart is probably in the right place, but I think his strategy is horribly misguided.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)What is wrong with that?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)So, once a year? Lol! You complain about assemblies in school while black kids are getting executed. Great!! I know that the assembly is WAY WAY more important then the fact the the black kids are seven times more likely to get killed by the police. Black lives matter is kinda about that. But the fact that black kids get an assembly directed at them, because they are seriously at risk, you want to shit all over it. Black kids cannot have a goddamn thing to themselves with out white peopke trying to strip them of their right to it and dignity. This is offensive.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)But now that your goalposts have shifted from "never posts concerns about racism" to "does not post about racism frequently enough", I doubt that this will make any difference.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You know I make it a point to notice. It's like a job for me.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Discriminating by race is racism, period. (And goalposts moved again, I see....)
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Black kids need a protected space to discuss racism without white kids overtalking them and minimizing their issues. It's hard to discuss racism with white people if you are black. By giving them a place to talk about it, it helps them compare with other experiencing the same things. The fact that that bothers you, shows you don't fucking get it.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)you are on the case and right on point. The individual is not worth any time. Glad to see you.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
azmom
(5,208 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Edit: relics. I get it now. That is funny.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Care to elaborate? Can you point to one law in modern America that validates that statement?
I doubt that most people in the U.S. even know their racial background more than a few previous generations.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Remember that case of the young man who shot and killed people in California who was half asian but identified as white? He was not called white by anybody in the media. There were even long threads on DU where people refused to consider him white, just kept repeating that he was HALF asian even though he identified himself as white.
This is the reason there is a thing called passing. Black people who look white can pass for white. Until very recently in order to BE white - and treated as such, they had to separate themselves from their black family, even going as far as changing their names and moving out of state.
This is not about the law. This is about how people are viewed and treated under the force of law.
We have laws that say that everybody must be treated equally. That is the law. It is not applied as such.
If you look at how laws are applied you will see that the lighter you are the easier the law goes on you as far as, stopping you, searching you, harassing you, convicting you, and sentencing you. Death penalty is given way more often for black murderers than white. It is so skewed that you cannot even say the laws are applied fairly.
We have a history of racist laws and have not even begun to stop applying them in a racist manner even though we tried to end racist laws. We end up with new laws in place that target the things that black people do. A couple of examples are the hoodie banning laws and manditory minimums and that rapper who got arrested for a song. Free speech- unless you're a black rapper who raps about the crimes in your neighborhood. Another racist law is stop and frisk. T was argued that it was perfectly ok to target young black and brown men for stop and frisk. The stop and frisked almost as many people that they had living in the entire neighborhood. The entire drug war was started as a method of controlling minorities. Opium laws targeted asians. Weed and cocaine laws targeted blacks. Cocaine was perfectly legal until the black longshoremen began at first chewing the leaves for energy to help them stay up for the long shifts of taking the cargo off of the ships. These things are known. Try googling the racist history of the drug war and you'll find quotes showing the intentions of the drug war in each step. We are living in the fallout. If you need more info, let me know.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)If you wish to make this charge you had better be prepared to back it up.
I think that this idea is only your own individual prejudice, because it is not reflected in the news article.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)would seem to be an example of racially discriminating.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Do you hate us or something. Be nice if you could just once support black kids instead of hating on them for getting an assembly like they don't deserve a 'black lives matter' assembly.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I just don't think that Hispanic kids, Asian kids and white kids should be banned by the school from attending such a worthy event.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They are not going to be one of the 1/3 black men spending time in prison. They will not be policed like black people. It is the aniversary of Selma. you only care about anybody but the black kids today.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)What do you think about that?
Though the affinity groups began with black students, Rouse said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino and Asian students. And once the students have had their say in the individual groups, he hopes to culminate the effort with a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Sorry, not a fan.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Sounds like a strategy.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)on a liberal, Democratic website of all places.
Strange days.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)that perhaps you didn't read the conclusion of the article?
Though the affinity groups began with black students, Rouse said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino and Asian students. And once the students have had their say in the individual groups, he hopes to culminate the effort with a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)the damage has been done already with your first comment. No weaseling out of it..... 
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Which is fucking depressing.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Transphobia. Gay bashing. Great day on DU. I swear this guy tries his best to irritate normal people. It has to be a game.
romanic
(2,841 posts)It ain't no game, it's a discussion forum.
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bravenak
(34,648 posts)If you took a minute to read you'd know that by now.
romanic
(2,841 posts).
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Most of us agree on substance, if not tactics.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)was in some of the very early sensitivity classes the military forced everyone to attend. The instructor started off his lecture with "There are no minority bigots." My boss said he didn't even bother to listen to anything he had to say after that.
It might have felt very satisfying for that instructor to say those words, but he immediately ostracized most of his audience.
heaven05
(18,124 posts) Wella
(1,827 posts)And, quite frankly, it's their prerogative.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)It's one of the stupidest ideas I have ever seen.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)It's one of the stupidest ideas I have ever seen.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt
Wella
(1,827 posts)There's a difference. If you want to teach about discrimination, then, yes, that's a lesson everyone needs to learn. But I get the feeling that this wasn't about teaching, but about letting black students talk about their experience in the school and letting them know there was administrative support for them.
Look at it this way: if you were going to teach everyone about sexual assault prevention, then a mixed group makes sense. If you're trying to get young women to talk about their experiences being assaulted at the school--things that girls don't usually talk about with each other or with administrators--then an all female group makes the most sense. In a gathering like this, administrators can learn what girls are going through and how prevalent acts like sexual harassment, groping, and other forms of assault (like ganging up on a girl at a locker to intimidate her) take place. Having males in the room would most likely stop these revelations cold.
I imagine the administrators at this high school wanted to find out how the black students were feeling at the school--a temperature check, as it were. A black student is not going to complain about white or Hispanic students/teachers in front of these students. (The possibility for retribution is very present.)
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Wella
(1,827 posts)Sometimes larger events provide the opportunity to find out things you don't know about your students and their situation at the school.
Chemisse
(31,347 posts)I suspect this administrator is guilty of presenting or organizing this program in a way that incites passions, and maybe even breeds racism.
Sometimes the packaging is as important as the program, and one that aims to separate the races during its process has to be presented and enacted with extraordinary skill.
Probably a large assembly is not the way to kick it off. High school kids are going to be mad if they can't get out of regular classes for an hour and others can. Just for starters. Then they find out only black kids are going, and they are all upset and maybe even angry at the black kids. Segregate, then incite angry feelings between the groups. That is a colossally BAD idea.
Later, they find out that ALL the races are being pulled aside in groups. Soon they start to feel that their high school is treating its student body as a group of groups. And maybe they think they notice that the Asian kids aren't being punished for the same offences, or the whites are more predominant in honors classes, etc. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, perception is everything with teenagers.
The end result could be just the opposite of what the principal intended.
Wella
(1,827 posts).
Generic Brad
(14,374 posts)
I agree with you, Nye Bevan. They totally missed the boat.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Though the affinity groups began with black students, Rouse said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino and Asian students. And once the students have had their say in the individual groups, he hopes to culminate the effort with a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together.
Generic Brad
(14,374 posts)And I still disagree with the divisive manner in which it was implemented. I can understand how someone could make the assumption you did based on my post.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)What day are all the white kids going to get together and have a real talk about race?
Fifth of never?
There's a couple of ways to look at this.
This came out of black kids getting shot or beaten by the cops. Would the black kids feel free enough to discuss issues with the white kids there. People have to remember that not every white kid attending that school is all liberaled up. Would the racist kids pick a fight (verbal) during the program.
It may have been an opportunity to teach the white kids. But the important voices here aren't white. If they let the white kids in, they should just listen. You can support a cause by hearing what is said.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)but it's stupid and counterproductive. This principal just drove another wedge between communities.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)It doesn't change what I said.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)The point of the principal's strategy.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Could such a strategy have a value?
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Do I think such groups have value? No. Not at all.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)for your white, non-minority experience. You don't see the value in what he says is important to him.
"In order for us to move forward, I believe the affinity group is the safe way for us to move forward in a safe environment," he said.
Rouse said as a black man, he knows firsthand that it can be challenging to be open in a mixed-race group.
"I found it has been far easier for me to talk about my experiences with racism with individuals that look like me," he said. "I still struggle myself with talking about my experiences with people who don't look like me."
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)and decided to hold meetings segregated by race, he would have been justifiably fired.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)If the principal were white, this wouldn't even make the papers.
and there would be nothing justifiable in firing either a white or black principal. Until you discuss the topic of affinity groups, you are not dealing with the substance of this article.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)No matter what the race of the principal, these "affinity groups" will lead to nothing good. That's my last word on the subject.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)If the white kids are prevented from hearing their classmates and friends give voice to their experiences with discrimination and/or bigotry, it makes it much more difficult, IMO, to build the empathy that is need to ensure real, enduring change.
Reading about how discrimination and/or bigotry affects a minority is one thing. Hearing a friend that you've grown up with talk about how it affects him or her on a daily basis is quite another.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Though the affinity groups began with black students, Rouse said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino and Asian students. And once the students have had their say in the individual groups, he hopes to culminate the effort with a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)for the reason I already stated.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)"In order for us to move forward, I believe the affinity group is the safe way for us to move forward in a safe environment," he said.
Rouse said as a black man, he knows firsthand that it can be challenging to be open in a mixed-race group.
"I found it has been far easier for me to talk about my experiences with racism with individuals that look like me," he said. "I still struggle myself with talking about my experiences with people who don't look like me."
He is also doing affinity groups for all races in his high school.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)But segregation, even temporary segregation, is not the best way to address discrimination and bigotry, IMO.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)That's your word, not mine.
GuntherGebelWilliams
(58 posts)It's not "their prerogative". They are mandated to be inclusive of all.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)It's entirely possible to read and understand the article and still disagree with the policy.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)That is the substance of the strategy that the principal is employing.
If you wish to make a serious argument, you need to discuss that.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)I read the article, I read and understand the principal's POV, I just don't agree with his strategy.
The kids that need most to hear the message are being told "You're not welcome here". That doesn't seem to be a useful strategy, IMO.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Got
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)of putting words into people's mouths that they didn't say.
His experience is his experience, and his methods and strategies are obviously based on those experiences. But that doesn't mean that his strategies are the best way to address the issue at hand, namely, discrimination and bigotry. Keeping the very people that most need to hear the message out of the meeting does what exactly? It certainly does nothing to get that message to the white students.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Which leads me to think that you didn't really read the article all the way through.
the conclusion;
Though the affinity groups began with black students, Rouse said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino and Asian students. And once the students have had their say in the individual groups, he hopes to culminate the effort with a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)If you choose to believe that disagreement equates to lack of understanding, that is certainly your right.
Doesn't mean you're correct though.
Wella
(1,827 posts)It is the school's prerogative to handle a volatile issue affecting their students in a way they see fit.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Can't have big hulking black men sitting next to our white daughters, nosiree.
Wella
(1,827 posts)Please see my previous post on this upthread.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)The event was limited to black students only for a reason.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/oak-park/news/ct-oak-black-lives-matter-tl-0312-20150306-story.html
Rouse, who has been principal at the school for seven years, said the decision to allow only black students was based in an idea known as affinity grouping. In an affinity group, the philosophy is that students of one racial persuasion are able to express themselves fully and safely.
"In order for us to move forward, I believe the affinity group is the safe way for us to move forward in a safe environment," he said.
Rouse said as a black man, he knows firsthand that it can be challenging to be open in a mixed-race group.
"I found it has been far easier for me to talk about my experiences with racism with individuals that look like me," he said. "I still struggle myself with talking about my experiences with people who don't look like me."
As a result of the approach taken at the school, Rouse said, the students shared their thoughts about being the only black students in advanced placement classes, having few black teachers, and their feelings about always having to represent their race rather than themselves in classroom discussions.
"Unfortunately, the stories that they shared weren't new to me. They were experiences I had in high school and experiences I had in college," he said.
But knowing the issues, Rouse added, helps school officials address them. For instance, Rouse said he's acutely aware of the lack of black teachers and is working hard to recruit them.
Though the affinity groups began with black students, Rouse said he hopes to have similar groups in the near future for white, Latino and Asian students. And once the students have had their say in the individual groups, he hopes to culminate the effort with a school-wide event that lets all students talk about race together.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)HAVE no problem telling black people how to feel or what to think.
i myself am white and am clueless half the time about race issues, which is why I listen to people who arent
none of whom are white...
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)losing my mind or have fallen into an alternate universe.
Why oh why don't people get this?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)using a "one drop of blood" principle, and including all-white student groups. An alternate universe indeed.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and counterproductive. I hope that this makes my feelings clear.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Here is the principal's reasoning as to their value. What is wrong with his reasoning?
"In order for us to move forward, I believe the affinity group is the safe way for us to move forward in a safe environment," he said.
Rouse said as a black man, he knows firsthand that it can be challenging to be open in a mixed-race group.
"I found it has been far easier for me to talk about my experiences with racism with individuals that look like me," he said. "I still struggle myself with talking about my experiences with people who don't look like me."
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)If a white principal said that he wasn't comfortable talking about ANYTHING with black students in his school, would that be okay?
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I think what the principal is saying is that it is difficult for many to talk about race.
The final paragraph of this story says that he wants to bring together ALL the groups together to talk about race after the individual affinity meetings with each group.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)"I found it has been far easier for me to talk about my experiences with racism with individuals that look like me," he said. "I still struggle myself with talking about my experiences with people who don't look like me."
I find it much easier to talk to other white people. Most of my friends are white. My family's white. I work with white people. I could talk to white people all day.
Is that okay? No, not really.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Talking with others not like you is the second step. The principal is indicating that it is hard for him and others who suffer from racism to talk about it. I take him at his word.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Yes. Unless, perhaps, if the Black students had requested this initiative ... and even then, I'd say if the Principal did not feel compete to move forward with it, then it is good that he/she recognizes that and refrains (or perhaps, finds someone that is).
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)
I wonder how many of them are actually interested in Black Lives Matter. It was only white parents that whined about this, and not very many at that. I know white people that went to OP/RF high school. They don't have shit to complain about.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)and I'm pretty sure they've now lost any interest they might have had.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Too much pale, bitching about .....um....nothing.
I'm going to meet my sweet husband at the bar, for a little sudsy re-allignment.
Response to kwassa (Reply #89)
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ismnotwasm
(42,674 posts)Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #135)
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ismnotwasm
(42,674 posts)A snarky first post is always suspect. I'm glad you are familier with the similes. It takes some people a while.
greatauntoftriplets
(179,005 posts)
Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #138)
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uppityperson
(116,020 posts)
NutmegYankee
(16,478 posts)uppityperson
(116,020 posts)vaccinations can cause rational thought.
Number23
(24,544 posts)I mean what could happen? Would the ideas and concerns of the black students be undermined, ignored or dismissed?? That never, ever happens! DU is a prime example of how minority perspectives are given sooo much weight and respect by the majority!1!one
The principal is just a... race baiter!
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Good catch. This thread is an excellent, self-evident example.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 10, 2015, 02:12 AM - Edit history (1)
the coming changed in their bodies. These exclude boys and a big reason is because the girls won't ask questions if boys are in the audience. I bet the "white and concerned" on this board would not yell "sexism!1!!1" even thought they are "excluding" boys.
Number23
(24,544 posts)
Matrosov
(1,098 posts)African-American students will feel more comfortable talking about race around other African-American students. White students will feel more comfortable talking about race around other white students. It's the same with Asians and Latinos.
The point of affinity groups isn't to exclude and discriminate but to provide an environment for the students where they can feel safe to discuss race matters openly.
Sadly some whites are obsessed with finding anything they can attack as a racial 'double standard'
kwassa
(23,340 posts)It makes sense to me, too.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Um, no.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)Because there is always at least one guy whom I have always known to be a decent and rational individual with shockingly racist views on the subject. I have a friend who was told, on more than one occasion, "I would love to give you the job, but we need more minorities working here."
I have argued with that man time and again about this. There ARE no legal hiring quotas. That simply does not exist. They didn't give you the job because they didn't want to hire you. So they came up with some bullshit excuse to make it easier.
I have another friend who started listening to "both sides" a couple months ago. Sad to say he is already parroting all sorts of racist "reverse racist" crap like we are seeing in this thread.
Some Muslim cleric was on the news in the bar preaching against Jihadi terrorists. What does everyone in the bar shout? "Why do the good Muslims never speak out agains the bad Muslims." In response to a good Muslim speaking out against bad Muslims you ask why do don't good Muslims every speak out against bad Muslims? WTF!
It can be maddening speaking to fellow Whites about racism. So many of them work so hard at *not* seeing the racism. Every dog whistle is met with the reply, "bark! Bark! Bark! Bark!"
Look at all the idiots on this thread trying to paint afinity grouping as reverse racism. They've gotten smart enough to stop using the term reverse racism. But that accusation, by another name, has whitewashed this entire thread.
This thread is giving me a headache. I seem to be hearing some high pitched whistle.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)You are!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)white people talking among other white people about why they feel uncomfortable talking to other white people about race.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)These discussions have to be run by competent facilitators in order to be successful. I've seen them be very successful. There is often an initial reluctance of white people to discuss race, but once they feel they are in a safe environment they will do so.
kiva
(4,373 posts)and I hope he doesn't repeat this event for white or hispanic or any other specific group of students.
Black History Month, Women's History Month, Hispanic Heritage Month, Native and Pacific Islanders Month, Native American Heritage Month, LGBT Month - these are all meant to celebrate these groups and educate people about the culture and accomplishments by members of these groups. Any educational institution that tries to make it an exclusive event deserves criticism.
Is there a group or club on campus for black students? If so, that's where this sort of event belongs, not as part of a diversity month that should be integrating, not segregating, students.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Which, given the history of such "white affinity groups" in the United States, seems like an even more misguided idea.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)This is the totality of his strategy.
What is wrong with that?
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)
MrScorpio
(73,772 posts)It's not the first time some have tried to appropriate our lives.
They've tried it before with slavery.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
hughee99
(16,113 posts)I read it as comparing white people attempting to attend this school event (to "appropriate" black lives) with slavery.
raging moderate
(4,624 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 8, 2015, 04:21 PM - Edit history (4)
I, too, dislike any racial discrimination. And I, too, long for a time when all racial discrimination can end. I, too, get my feelings hurt when I am excluded from meetings of Black people because of my white face. And, by the way, Black people, some of us white people really do want to attend these meetings to support you and learn more about you so we can support you better. There is a reason I deliberately capitalize the word Black but not the word white. There has been way too much verbal pretty-white-skin kissing in this country. It is time for some verbal pretty-Black-skin kissing.
I think, if a white person has grown up British or Canadian, you cannot possibly have any conception of the hellish horror that has been perpetrated against persons of color in these United States. There is a line on the map, latitude 15-40 (established in the eighteenth century by bellicose white US citizens screaming "15-40 or fight!" . North of that line, white people, led by a (for its time) enlightened government, struggled in a fatuous delusion of racial superiority to teach, guide, control, and rescue various Native Americans and African Americans, frequently making huge errors and occasionally committing huge crimes against them. I know Canada was better, because my own white US ancestors were grateful that there was such a refuge that they could help Native Americans and African Americans reach, with many fellow white people from whom they could derive reassurance that they were not the crazy ones for caring what happened to their fellow human beings.
Because, you see, south of that 15-40 line, life was a constant living horror for Native Americans and African Americans, as many white US citizens persisted in a vicious delusion that non-whites were not really human beings at all but rather animals, like chimps or gorillas, who had no rights at all. And no amount of reasoning or wheedling or bargaining would change their minds. I have read how reasonable white people tried to oppose these practices but were met by ridicule and threats (or, for those few who persisted, by beatings, house burnings, or even murder). Black people who came into white towns or neighborhoods were in physical danger, even if they had been hired by white people to do some of the dirty work the whites felt they themselves were too special to be stuck with. Now that Black people have gained a greater voice, we know it was even worse than the clueless white people knew (You guys, you have to realize, these other whites were not about to confide very much in the so called race traitors). Black people were constantly harassed, often terrorized, occasionally tortured for no reason, sometimes cheated out of wages with no recourse, denied food and water and medical care even in childhood. In a flood or a fire, sometimes they went unrescued.
Even fifty years ago, when I was a young girl living in Chicago, many whites expressed frequent unjustified contempt for all non-whites. And that is when things finally began to change. My mother said it was a huge relief to see the Black people finally getting some decent chances in life. She said that when she was a young girl, every Black person she saw looked as if he/she were carrying nine thousand pounds across the shoulders. She was so happy to see the change during the civil rights movement, when Black people finally walked, talked, dressed, and laughed with a new feeling of hope and happiness and freedom. So I have been happy in my life, to see them finally, finally, being given more of the rights that should have been theirs all along.
I just read a statistic that the police in Britain and Wales only shot about 3 - 4 people in the past few years. Do you understand the staggering statistics we have here in the US, where THOUSANDS of people have been shot by police in that period? And most of them Black. And usually by white police. When I was working in a Women's Shelter, we had a sign on the door asking that men please, please refrain from entering. Because some women had been so traumatized that they just COULD NOT stand to be around men. Especially not when they were opening up, expressing their damaged feelings and the terror they lived with. Good men got tears in their eyes and said "Of course." And that is what I am proud to say, when I hear that the Black people need me to stay out of a meeting where they hope to commiserate among their own kind. It is the white people, my own kind (well, mostly, I do have a tiny Native American ancestry) who have created this problem. And now it is so big that we can't solve it by pretending that we are in need of consideration. We have to let Black people do what they need to do. We have to offer support. We have to speak up to these other whites. And so on. Maybe after that, someday, we will at last be allowed into the meetings. And someday, we can all move together into a brighter future, leaving all this horror behind.
Until then, other white people, please join me in saying, "Of course." And in realizing that it is even a delusion to call ourselves white. Put your hand on a piece of paper, and realize that the palest "white" person is actually a kind of pale brown. Isn't it time we came off our pedestals and joined the rest of the human race?
Until then, I will continue to understand that sometimes I can help best by respectfully staying out of the caring and sharing meetings Black people feel they need.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Spazito
(55,500 posts)I would just say don't give Canada too much credit. We didn't have slavery but we did have segregated schools, the last one being closed in ...1982, repeat...1982. We didn't have Jim Crow laws but we did have, instead, a wink, wink, nod, nod acceptance of some of the practices found in the Jim Crow laws.
My mother worked in a store in Sydney, Nova Scotia when she was young and told me that her boss was the only one that would allow African Canadians to run a tab to the end of the month, payday, where running a tab was routine for everyone else.
I have spent the month of February upgrading my woefully inadequate understanding of what it meant and means to be "Black In Canada" (CBC, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) had a series of 1/2 hour shows and I was appalled at how little of the history is taught, both in the past and the present.
Wella
(1,827 posts)I often wonder if so much of the rage out there is trauma based. There was an argument not long ago by a Philly journalist that kids coming from Philly's most dangerous neighborhoods were actually suffering from PTSD:
Welcome to the City of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder
Unfortunately, political debate over urban violence reduces to opposites: On the left, politicians blame economic factors, bad schools and ineffective, even racist law enforcement; to the right, conservatives preach personal responsibility, citing out-of-wedlock births, absentee fathers and the welfare culture. But many decades of violence—equivalent to a protracted shooting war in neighborhoods like Kensington’s Norris Square—have yielded a more pressing problem. According to some medical experts, a diagnosis we most commonly associate with troubled military combat veterans now fits many thousands of people in our poorest neighborhoods: post-traumatic stress disorder.
PTSD symptoms include intrusive, upsetting memories; nightmares; chronic anxiety and fear; memory loss; diminished interest in life; emotional numbing and angry outbursts. But it’s the effect of these symptoms that tears at the fabric of families and communities and produces the dysfunctional neighborhoods we see today. A war vet who suffers from PTSD is more likely to be unemployed, stuck in an abusive relationship, addicted to drugs or alcohol, mired in poverty and subject to violence. The same is true of people living in this city’s most impoverished neighborhoods. And it’s not a coincidence.
PTSD has been studied most in soldiers. But in research conducted in Philadelphia, Drexel doctors John Rich and Theodore Corbin have found PTSD rates of more than 70 percent among young men who survive being shot or stabbed. Steven Berkowitz, of Penn’s psychiatry department, citing the research conducted so far, suggests the PTSD rate among the urban poor at large could be as high as 40 percent.
“We’re talking about huge portions of entire communities that are impaired in terms of their basic functioning,” says Rich, chair of Drexel’s Department of Health Management and Policy. “These people are suffering and require medical attention, or the cycle will continue.”
The cyclical nature of urban trauma confounds us. We throw up our hands in disgust at the young, violent men of this city; we’re unable to comprehend how anyone could be so emotionally numb, so calloused toward the value of human life. What we fail to grasp, in terms of any coherent policy, is trauma’s strange dual nature.
Violent or traumatic events can produce what some researchers have termed “limbic scars”—real, measurable, physical damage to the brain. This is an effect of violence. But it’s also a cause, because the damage done impairs brain function—producing people who are emotionally numb, indifferent to the value of life and likely to lash out. “It’s a cycle that feeds on itself,” says Rich. “Without intervention, violent, traumatic events precipitate more violent, traumatic events.”
Response to raging moderate (Reply #115)
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romanic
(2,841 posts)of having events like these being racially segregated but on the other hand black people benefit from having their voices heard amongst one another to share experiences. I hope more groups of people are invited to assemblys like these in the future thpugh cause u can't have an honest discussion about race with just one race doing all of the talking.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)
gollygee
(22,336 posts)This is really common in anti-racism work - for white people to meet, and for people of color to meet, and then for the two groups to come together at the end. It's done that way because it's effective in anti-racism. It works. It does not create a segregation situation outside of these specific affinity groups, and the groups lead to really good change. You can knee-jerk "segregation! segregation!" and miss the greater point, or you can focus on anti-racism and improved communication and relationships in the school.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)or relationships in any way. In fact, I'm pretty sure it will just build up more walls. That's up to the principal, though. If he wants to further screw up his school, that's his problem.
It's funny that for all the posts I see saying that racism is white people's responsibility, there is so much support for shutting them out of the process.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and they started doing it because they thought it would improve communication, and they continue to do it because it has improved communication. No one is shutting white people out, but congrats on making anti-racism all about white people.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Not my hill to die on.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:59 PM - Edit history (2)
talking among other white people about racism?
I think this thread is an exactly example for why some white people need to be "shut out of the process."
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)now ... do you think it would be beneficial for white people to talk among other white people about racism?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And if so, does that make it OK?
and yes.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Amazing what I read here sometimes.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)which would be a closer analogy to this situation.
U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 10, 2015, 01:23 AM - Edit history (1)
right now in our public schools.
You must be against this form of segregation if you are to be consistent.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)is probably not a road you really want to go down.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)if it is explained I don't understand what the problem is especially if they have various groups meet, an all AA group only, an all white group only, and then both combined at some point. I don't get the difficulty in comprehending this concept. 
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)It's another example of the "whatAboutUsery" that white liberals have come to expect.
It's almost as if they think that PoC need to be "taught" about the racism that PoC experience (rather than a safe space to share and develop coping mechanisms/strategies).
But what is most troubling about this thread is, those most vocal in their opposition, clearly did not read the article; but still maintain competence to be critical of the principal's strategy.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I've seen that. Sadly, I haven't learned to accept that ... nor have I taught my daughter to accept it.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)WTF????
Hell, I still won't attend a segregated church.
This isn't teaching the right lessons.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)This isn't teaching the right lessons.
Oh, this. Just this.
The foolishness of some people..... bettyellen
(47,209 posts)To discuss issues that effect them deeply?
This is exactly like dudes trying to bust into a meting of women discussing their experiences being abused by men.
Seems like a lot of white people can't empathise one fucking tiny bit.
ripcord
(5,553 posts)Isn't excluding students from a school event because of race against the law?
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)depending on the program objection, excluding students from a school event based on discrete class membership is NOT against any law. (See: Strict Scrutiny Analysis)
In real life, context remains important.
ripcord
(5,553 posts)I was just wondering how this was working.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)for too many white liberals, any discussion of race devolves into "WhatAboutMeries" ... this thread is a great example of that.
The initiative has different objectives for, and is to fill different needs of, different groups. It is about PoC having a safe space to discussion racism and learn strategies to cope with it; whereas, it is a safe space for white people to discuss, with other white people, race/racism.
ripcord
(5,553 posts)I just hope the parents let it drop, that principal seems to have things well in hand.