Let's ABOLISH the Selective Service!

[John Poet]

It's past time to ABOLISH the Selective Service, and draft registration!

This is a money-wasting cold-war boondoggle that we don't need. Hell, I hear their damned radio ads every day on AM radio whilst spying on the rightwing talkingheads, "sign up for selective service, it's the law, we own your ass, but won't tell you how much money we are wasting on these radio advertisements every damn day".

(I voted "other" in the poll).

It's only likely use would be to draft a huge number of bodies to send to some foreign war, and we don't need to send those kinds of numbers anywhere, EVER. Having it available is just too tempting for some future imperialist despot to be able to speed up some future draft.

Even fighting on two different fields (Iraq and Afghanistan), the volunteer armed forces were able to handle them both.

If we were truly threatened on our home soil, the volunteer concept would be more than adequate-- even 9-11 caused a big spike in recruitment.

Besides that, there are so many guns held by civilians here, we ought to feel safe enough without it, shouldn't we? Anyone would be very foolish to try to invade us. It would be like walking into TEN Iraqs.

It's pointless, other than serving to enable some future, unnecessary military adventure. Who the hell are we going to invade that would require massive numbers of cannon fodder? North Korea? Iran? Ukraine?

Conservatives ought to support abolition-- after all, their idol Ronald Reagan promised to do so in 1980-- before he not only flip-flopped and kept it, but started prosecuting registration resisters... All their more libertarian types ought to support abolishing it. It's a money-waster, and anti-liberty.

This "tool" ought to be taken out of the hands of some future despot.
I don't really need to NAME NAMES, here, do I?!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

4. +1000

I have two daughters, no sons, but I agree 100%. Get rid of it, or make it universal.

[hollysmom]

2. I thought the best way to get people to consider war seriously is to have a draft again -

there are too many people swinging around the whole lets go to war without having to face any consequences. Now if they had family members have to go, it might calm them down a little.

[daleanime]

3. +1

[hack89]

9. The only way to make it fair is to enormously expand the military

otherwise only a very small fraction of those eligible to serve will actually serve. First off there will still be plenty of volunteers and secondly the military is the smallest it has been since before Pearl Harbor.

[jwirr]

22. Does that count the privatize jobs in the military? There are a lot of what happens in a war now

that is provided by Helliburtin.

[hack89]

28. Yes.

We had 12 million men under arms in WWII. We had 3 million in 1970. We have 1.2 million today and that number is going down steadily.

[jwirr]

29. Thank you.

[hack89]

30. No problem. Nt

[99Forever]

5. Couldn't disagree more.

The best way to stop evil, stupid, warmongers, is to make sure they have skin in the game. Make their families serve just like the rest of us, NO exceptions.

[hack89]

10. How do you make it fair?

given the historically small size of today's military and the fact that they are turning away volunteers, how to you actually accommodate a meaningful percentage of those eligible to be drafted? You would have to significantly increase the military and military spending.

[HereSince1628]

11. A standing military is a terrible temptation

Politicians are pragmatic, they use 'tools' available to them A huge standing military force is a terrible temptation for a person like Ronald Reagan. And military availability suckered in Bill Clinton and even Barak Obama.

Universal conscription never is the way it works out.

When you look at the deferments you realize the military is OK with some of these deferrments because they can get some things they need. You also realize that within society there isn't political support to do away with all of them...

•1-O - Conscientious Objector- conscientiously opposed to both types (combatant and non-combatant) of military training and service - fulfills his service obligation as a civilian alternative service worker.

1-A-O - Conscientious Objector - conscientiously opposed to training and military service requiring the use of arms - fulfills his service obligation in a noncombatant position within the military.

•2-D - Ministerial Students - deferred from military service.

•3-A - Hardship Deferment - deferred from military service because service would cause hardship upon his family.

•4-C - Alien or Dual National - sometimes exempt from military service.

•4-D - Ministers of Religion - exempted from military service.

•4-F - Not Qualified for Military Service due to medical reasons.

During Vietnam we had

•I-A-O - Conscientious objector registrant available for noncombatant military service only.

•I-C - Member of the Armed Forces of the US, the Environmental Science Services Administration, or the Public Health Service.

•I-D - Qualified member of reserve component, or student taking military training, including ROTC and accepted aviation cadet applicant.

•I-S - Student deferred by law until graduation from high school or attainment of age of 20, or until end of his academic year at a college or university.

•I-W - Conscientious objector performing civilian work contributing to the maintenance of national health, safety, or interest, or who has completed such work.

•I-Y - Registrant qualified for military service only in time of war or national emergency.

•II-A - Occupational deferment (other than agricultural and student).

•II-C - Agricultural deferment.

•II-S - Student deferment.

•III-A - Extreme hardship deferment, or registrant with a child.

•IV-A - Registrant with sufficient prior active service or who is a sole surviving son.

•IV-B - Official deferred by law.

•IV-C - Alien not currently liable for military service.

•IV-D - Minister of religion or divinity student.

•IV-F - Registrant not qualified for any military service.

•Class V-A - Registrant over the age of liability for military service.

[99Forever]

12. Is there some part of NO exceptions you don't understand?

[HereSince1628]

13. I understand perfectly, what you don't get is IT IS UNLIKELY to the point of impossibility

Universal conscription with no exceptions is a FANTASY.

And the standing military created by conscription is a TERRIBLE thing. A GIGANTIC waste of resources and a structure that even after it has been gone for decades leaves a huge imprint on American's views of themselves in the world and on the American budget

[99Forever]

14. Who said anything about a "standing army" besides you?

Must be morning to try and pick arguments with people over shit they didn't ever say.

[HereSince1628]

17. It's possible I'm conflating under the influence of other conscription threads

But I don't see how there is skin in the game if there is no skin actually in a game? It's actual conscription in a time of deployment that does that.

The threat of a draft made possible through selective service registration has done ZERO to prevent Reagan, George HW Bush, Clinton, George W Bush, or Barak Obama from sending US military off to pursue international belligerence

[99Forever]

18. In case you haven't noticed...

... we currently have no draft and a "standing army" and are deeply involved in multiple wars. Care to explain what it is I am missing?

[HereSince1628]

19. This really seems to go in circles doesn't it?

Now you are saying just what I said Selective service registration has done nothing to prevent the last 5 Presidents from participating in or creating wars.

Selective service requires all men 18 and older to register. You can't have a deferment unless you register. So deferments aren't really the issue unless there is mobilization and conscription becomes real.

We have evidence conscription causes opposition to war. Conscription was enormously unpopular due to the ridiculously long and irrational anti-commie, fear of dominoes falling, Vietnam war.

REAL conscription results in opposition to pointless conflicts.

Registration as evidenced by decades of history does nothing to create widespread durable opposition to stupid conflicts.

On edit: The size of the American military and it's impact on the US budget is in large part a legacy of post WWII conscription. We created a large standing military filled it under coercive influence of conscription, and the American citizenry got accustomed to it's existence, cost to support, and use in interventions throughout the much of the northern hemisphere.

[99Forever]

26. Yes it does.

However, the ranks of our current standing army were not filled by conscription, but rather by economic coercion. The moneyed vested interests of the MIC have seen to it that doing something to change is all but impossible.

If I had my way, the first "boots on the ground" in every bloody conflict, would be the children of every legislator that pushed it and the children of every employee that makes the weapons of war. (And yes, I know that won't happen, but it sure should.)

[HereSince1628]

27. The current military was largely filled by jingoistic patriotism after 911, of course the economic

environment for young men contributes to availability and choice to volunteer, which is certainly why so many of the people in the Army during my time were from places of poverty...but I think it's a package deal. Complex contexts facing similar black and white problem of accepting being conscripted/volunteering to avoid being drafted or defying the law. Defiance is tougher without financial support.

The dream of putting primarily rich kids of legislators on the ground first is just a dream. Those are kids who might show up later by volunteering or being drafted, but they are also kids most likely to be college.

The military wants officers to be college educated.

That was true during Vietnam as it is now. Expansion of the force, and shorter life expectancies of low ranking company grade officers back then required many OCS trained officers to meet the demand. But college educations were desired and if a officer didn't get one, he was usually mustered out before making field grade.

[seabeyond]

6. absolutely. if for no other reason, to take away the whine from men how UNFAIR life is

for them and blaming feminists that this even exists, not that it will ever result in calling them up to serve.

that ship has sailed.

but, the nothing that the draft registration is that our sons have to sign at 17, creates such a whine of injustice in their mind, often derailing any conversation about the unlevel playing field our women and girls live, daily, world wide.

so yes. abso fuggin' lutely, abolish it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

15. I would think that having sons would be enough reason to support the idea. n/t

[seabeyond]

16. hence... IF FOR NO OTHER REASON. there are lots of reasons i state consistently, to get rid of.

[elias49]

20. Men are whining about it? I never noticed that.

Jeez, does everything boil down to some manifestation of sexism? Come on.

[seabeyond]

21. no, not everything does. this does. you do not hear it? you are not listening.

[elias49]

23. I'll take your word for it. But, seriously, I don't.

It could, of course, have something to do with my station in life: aging male, didn't go to Vietnam because I got lucky in the 'lottery', more interested in my new-made grandchildren.
That said, I think sometimes women are more 'sexist' than men!

[seabeyond]

25. what a hoot of a post. take my word for it, not really, women are more sexist than men.

brilliant.

[LWolf]

7. Okay.

Not that I needed convincing.

[Kaleva]

8. What is the annual cost of maintaining the selective service system as is?

Here's a link to a GAO report published back in 1997:

http://www.gao.gov/products/NSIAD-97-225

[bigwillq]

24. Congrats on 50 posts!

[mikehiggins]

31. skin in the game

despite the suggestion that having your own kid be drafted would work against the existence/use of the draft keep in mind that during Viet Nam those who opposed the draft were considered fools, if not traitors.

The people who send kids off to war, whether yours or mine or theirs, don't give a flying **** about the meat about to be slaughtered.

All in the service of the greater good, as Dick Cheney might say.