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Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 07:27 AM Mar 2015

Okay, so let's "war-game" this: The President orders the arrest of 47 opposition senators.

He's sitting at his desk when an aide hands him a printout of the petition. After consulting with his advisors he instructs the DOJ to file arrest warrants.

Then what happens?

54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Okay, so let's "war-game" this: The President orders the arrest of 47 opposition senators. (Original Post) Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 OP
I say try them clydefrand Mar 2015 #1
It's not treason, violation of the Logan Act, and possible Seditition Katashi_itto Mar 2015 #2
Feel better now? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #3
Nothing. leftofcool Mar 2015 #4
This was your stupid game to begin with. Provoke and snide. See what you get back. leveymg Mar 2015 #13
In others words this is nothing more than a ridiculous exercise in spleen venting. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #18
You are entitled to your own interpretation. leveymg Mar 2015 #24
The only thing more impotent than a threat unmade is a threat unkept. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #33
Treason is a capital crime - would you support the death penalty in this case? nt el_bryanto Mar 2015 #5
Not gonna happen steve2470 Mar 2015 #6
I agree. I think Obama is too smart to get sucked into the hyperbole but I'm curious about what Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #7
I don't think for a minute they will be prosecuted. marym625 Mar 2015 #51
The BEST Obama can do is point out how lucky the 1918 sedition act isn't in place. HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #8
sounds like a similar fantasy to the ones the right wing has fishwax Mar 2015 #9
And right you are.......a fantasy it is. WillowTree Mar 2015 #22
And unhinged right wingers everywhere get violent Lee-Lee Mar 2015 #10
Exactly. randome Mar 2015 #21
This goes beyond "opposition", straight into meddling with Cotton's own words: Lars39 Mar 2015 #11
Let's pretend you are the President and things have played out as they have so far and Cotton Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #16
Fantasy is pretending that this group will stop meddling and obstructing. Lars39 Mar 2015 #25
Okay. So, what would you, if you were president, do and what do you think will be the result? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #29
I am not schooled in diplomacy. Lars39 Mar 2015 #34
You're not schooled in constitutional law either. Yet, here we are discussing arresting senators. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #35
Actually some of us are, while others are content to let them go on to the next action. Lars39 Mar 2015 #39
No judge is going to issue warrants, let alone oversee the case. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #43
arrest 47 senators for treason and you will get civil war Amishman Mar 2015 #12
I DARE the teabagger rebels to start a civil war meow2u3 Mar 2015 #30
win or lose doesn't matter, it's still massive carnage Amishman Mar 2015 #38
I believe the Federal Govt is not allowed to the US Military on US SOIL to fight. srican69 Mar 2015 #54
You know, I really doubt it. Marr Mar 2015 #32
I doubt it would even go that far. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #36
Oh, definitely. Marr Mar 2015 #46
You watch too much TV. nt Romulox Mar 2015 #14
I'm not the one running around calling for prosecutions. I'm not the one indulging in fantasy. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #17
My apologies. I was 180 degrees incorrect. I can see that now. Romulox Mar 2015 #20
No worries. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #23
This isn't Venezuela or Russia. geek tragedy Mar 2015 #15
Political opposition is not treason. Yo_Mama Mar 2015 #19
Civil War? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2015 #26
Bad strategy - so I won't accept the starting point you designate. let me give an alternative karynnj Mar 2015 #27
LOL, in your fantasy scenario, I'm disappointed in the non imaginative responses NM_Birder Mar 2015 #28
Decide where to build the gallows. pintobean Mar 2015 #31
We can be more clever than that. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #40
I'm glad I read the entire thread instead of just immediately ... 11 Bravo Mar 2015 #37
Rendition them. SwankyXomb Mar 2015 #41
What a bizarre world when enhancd interrogations are bad for terrorists Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2015 #42
the President won't order their arrest magical thyme Mar 2015 #44
You know, I don't think the Skidmore Mar 2015 #45
Republicans and Democrats live in different nations. former9thward Mar 2015 #47
There is a full range of political opinion, including those Skidmore Mar 2015 #50
I agree with your post. former9thward Mar 2015 #53
The later is dicey at best, all we ever hear about is what the TeaPubliKlans will say or do. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #52
Haven't done anything all day but call, marym625 Mar 2015 #49
Life gets better marym625 Mar 2015 #48

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
24. You are entitled to your own interpretation.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 09:37 AM
Mar 2015

Last edited Tue Mar 10, 2015, 10:29 AM - Edit history (1)

But, please don't draw the rest of us into this game of no consequence and then mock those with whom you disagree. It's passive-aggressive and a disruptive attention-getting device.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
33. The only thing more impotent than a threat unmade is a threat unkept.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 11:08 AM
Mar 2015

Unless there is an intent to prosecute than all this ballyhoo about prosecuting simply looks ridiculous -- and impotent. So why bother?

Anyone who thinks they can have 47 senators arrested and tried without consequence is so far removed from reality that they should probably be dismissed out of hand. So, if and we do bother what will be the consequence?

steve2470

(37,461 posts)
6. Not gonna happen
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 07:43 AM
Mar 2015

The very most that could or would happen in the real world, is for the President to ask the Justice Department to investigate. That's it. Even that would be, to put it mildly, highly controversial and labeled as partisan politics by the Republicans, of course, and their allies in the MSM.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
7. I agree. I think Obama is too smart to get sucked into the hyperbole but I'm curious about what
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 07:53 AM
Mar 2015

those who are yelling for prosecution under whatever law imagine will happen if they get their wish.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
51. I don't think for a minute they will be prosecuted.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 03:32 PM
Mar 2015

But they should be. I hope that at least a few are worried. But I am using this to call them out on their traitorous act. It isn't treason but they are traitors.

The fact they don't know US or Iranian law, proven in their letter, us a great start in making them look the fools they are

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
8. The BEST Obama can do is point out how lucky the 1918 sedition act isn't in place.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 08:01 AM
Mar 2015

and no action can be taken against the senate.

He could then point out the trueness of the sentiment of the petition...The senators clearly acted in concert with a foreign power, Israel, to promote contempt for the Executive Branch.

fishwax

(29,190 posts)
9. sounds like a similar fantasy to the ones the right wing has
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 08:04 AM
Mar 2015

They've been claiming for years that Obama has the desire to silence the opposition by such means

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
10. And unhinged right wingers everywhere get violent
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 08:10 AM
Mar 2015

Because they spin it as an attempt at suppressing dissent.

Things swirl downhill from there.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
21. Exactly.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 09:29 AM
Mar 2015

[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)
[/center][/font][hr]

Lars39

(26,146 posts)
11. This goes beyond "opposition", straight into meddling with Cotton's own words:
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 08:22 AM
Mar 2015
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/09/tom-cotton-iran_n_6831328.html

"The end of these negotiations isn't an unintended consequence of congressional action. It is very much an intended consequence. A feature, not a bug, so speak," Cotton said in January, speaking at a conservative conference hosted by the advocacy group Heritage Action for America.





Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
16. Let's pretend you are the President and things have played out as they have so far and Cotton
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 09:24 AM
Mar 2015

has made the exact same statement about you.

What would you do and how do you imagine it will play out?

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
43. No judge is going to issue warrants, let alone oversee the case.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 01:41 PM
Mar 2015

Even if anyone were jailed, before or after a trial, only the senate can remove senators; presidents cannot. They could literally continue their senatorial functions from federal prison all the while claiming political prisoner status. That is assuming their state governors don't appoint someone TWICE as radical out of spite and cease cooperating with federal authorities (Clue -- USSC precedent says state and local police have no legal obligation to enforce federal law).

That doesn't even account for the PR disaster this would turn into for the President when he goes before the American people to explain he's arresting elected officials over Iran, of all nations. The only possible worst move would be having a Rose Garden lunch with NAMBLA.

not

gonna

happen

Amishman

(5,596 posts)
12. arrest 47 senators for treason and you will get civil war
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 08:58 AM
Mar 2015

plenty of right wingers have been telling themselves that 'Obama's gonna take over and declare himself king', and this would set them off. They have been stockpiling guns and ammo for years. And there are hundreds of thousands of them, if not more.

meow2u3

(24,843 posts)
30. I DARE the teabagger rebels to start a civil war
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 11:01 AM
Mar 2015

If they think they can start a civil war with the United States military and win, they're damn delusional. They lost the first Civil War; they'll lost the next one.

The teabaggers' guns and ammo are no match for the full power of the US military machine.

Amishman

(5,596 posts)
38. win or lose doesn't matter, it's still massive carnage
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 11:21 AM
Mar 2015

The loss of life would be a tragedy.

And I am not certain what the US military would do, as it is certainly not a bastion of progressive thought.

srican69

(1,426 posts)
54. I believe the Federal Govt is not allowed to the US Military on US SOIL to fight.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 04:00 PM
Mar 2015

its some kind of vestige of the Civil war

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
32. You know, I really doubt it.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 11:02 AM
Mar 2015

Not saying this scenario has the faintest chance of happening, of course, but if it did, I doubt the right-wing physical response would go any further than a slight up-tick in the number of gun-humper shooting sprees for a few months.

Authoritarians are cowards if they don't have the support of the powers that be. I think the vast majority would rationalize an excuse for staying inside and polishing their guns.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
36. I doubt it would even go that far.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 11:20 AM
Mar 2015

I think the entire idea would be thrown out of court and the political fallout would be humiliating for whatever party attempted it.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
46. Oh, definitely.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 03:13 PM
Mar 2015

The GOP suffered for just a half-baked impeachment attempt against Clinton. This would be orders of magnitude greater. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended the party that tried it, or at least made them nonviable nationally for a decade or more.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
15. This isn't Venezuela or Russia.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 09:21 AM
Mar 2015

Behavior that is seditious in spirit is not enough to warrant prosecution. Requires really blatantly, flagrant violation of a viable criminal statute.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
19. Political opposition is not treason.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 09:28 AM
Mar 2015

Our president is not an idiot and he would not do it, so this is too much fantasy for me.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
26. Civil War?
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 09:53 AM
Mar 2015

Every yahoo with a gun and a Confederate flag goes full on Cliven Bundy, or even starts shooting police and politicians immediately?

karynnj

(59,615 posts)
27. Bad strategy - so I won't accept the starting point you designate. let me give an alternative
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 10:42 AM
Mar 2015

Better start as the President did -- pointing out, with a pleasant face and smile, that the 47 are working with the Iran hardliners and to speak in high level terms as to the goal of the P5 + 1.

Obama and his administration, the rest of the P5 + 1, and Rouhani and Zarif are the moderates - the sane people trying to make a more peaceful world. Obama positions the 47 with the forces against them and specifically mentions the Iran hardliners.

The action by the Senators was not just way outside historic precedent, but potentially a huge PR error. It is fascinating that the NY Daily News has called them traitors. The Daily News usually been right leaning from its roots (started by cousins of the people who started the Chicago Tribune) until today - owned by Mortimer Zuckerberg, who though he contributed and voted for Obama in 2008, is considered to be part of the "Israel Lobby". It was the paper that Archie Bunker would have read. Remember the reference by Paul Simon - "though it never made the NYT, in the Daily News the caption read Save the life of my child ". This is not the paper of the Wall Street elite or academia. However, that graphic tabloid cover will be seen repeatedly by millions of New Yorkers as they go about their business.

At this point, there is not yet a deal. This limits Obama to speaking just of what he is TRYING to do. I can't imagine anything less productive in the final days of negotiation than posturing in the media on what we will or won't do. The President's team has been correct in refusing to leak details. This temporarily puts him at a disadvantage.

The Republicans and Netanyahu, a man completely willing to lie constantly, are then able to lie about what the deal, not yet finalized is. However, even now - an outline of what the ALTERNATIVE to a diplomatic deal really is. The clearer that becomes, the more popular Obama's deal will become - EVEN NOT SPECIFIED.

Then if the deal is made, the actual details can be used by Obama to sell it to the American people. The reality is stark. There will either be a deal or there is a huge potential for war - adding to the chaos already there in the Middle East.

Where some around Netanyahu were claiming that Obama and Kerry want this just for their legacy, in reality his appearance was mostly for Israeli politics. One thing people claiming it is being done for a legacy should think about is that something becomes a good legacy ONLY if in retrospect it is seen as having done good things.

What the Republicans should worry about is that with the other 5 nations involved as well if there is a deal, the contrast will be the serious, honorable Obama/Kerry arguing for giving peace a chance against the small minded ugly warmongers offering no real solution. As Kerry told Netanyahu -simply demanding Iran capitulate is not a plan.

 

NM_Birder

(1,591 posts)
28. LOL, in your fantasy scenario, I'm disappointed in the non imaginative responses
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 10:49 AM
Mar 2015

If it's a fantasy scenario ....... make it a fantasy !

The country is thrown into chaos as a belief in social prosperity is abandoned for the rule of "my party" law, Jack Bauer is released onto the population to quell the upstarts.

Sarah Conner gives birth to Neo, .....who cracks the code to bring down all the financial lending institutions. Over a few beers with Tyler Durden ... the plan is hatched. The last of the Jedi will break into the Bellagio vault and steal the password to gain entry to Raccoon City.

Evil genius Barney the Dinosaur, Blacklists,.... Tony Saprano and in turn forces Jeff Goldblum to Fly into action,.....and the T-virus is secretly combined in both the Del Taco taco flavoring, and the worlds hippie stash of strategic tofu, guaranteeing that between the two, 90% of the population will be infected.

Angelina adopts the remaining survivors, and whisks them off to the Pitt compound. as the world devours itself, the Pitt compound feels secure, suddenly Michael Myers shows up in the 60's shagwagon, and shanks everyone in the Pitt Compound. After acting out the last scene of McBeth, Myers develops a conscience, beheads himself and is allowed into Narnia to do bong tokes with Mr Tumnus.

the roaches rejoice and build the new world utopia, paying homage to the humans who ignorantly destroyed themselves in pursuit of self righteousness and narrow sighted selfishness. "They who created the garbage filled paradise are worshiped" until the beetles believe there was one race that created more garbage than the rest, battle lines are drawn between the "NON BELIEVERS" of the master garbage race creators. A new battle rages, until not even the cockroach can survive the stupid ignorance of blind political faith.

But the fish, the fish live on, unhindered by the putrid rot that is created by a thinking brain, the fish live on ............ happily. All the while, un-knowingly, slowly becoming watery slaves...day by day..... over time, to the giggling mad genius of the ocean, the crazy eighty eight's most deadly foe,........ the Dolphin dirty dozen.





11 Bravo

(23,959 posts)
37. I'm glad I read the entire thread instead of just immediately ...
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 11:20 AM
Mar 2015

jumping ugly with you.

I completely agree. Cries for the arrest and trial of the 47 Repub Senators are ridiculous, because in this country being a flaming asshole remains legal.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
42. What a bizarre world when enhancd interrogations are bad for terrorists
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 01:29 PM
Mar 2015

but gleefully applauded for elected representatives.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
44. the President won't order their arrest
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 01:47 PM
Mar 2015

but he (or a staffer) will have to answer the petition. The question is how do they answer it. I'd like to see it have millions of signatures. And let the GOP answer to the signatories for their behavior.

And with enough signatures, the petition alone could generate some additional negative attention for the morans that inspired it.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
45. You know, I don't think the
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 01:52 PM
Mar 2015

President or DOJ will do anything, but there is a purpose for the use of outcry in this instance and that is to give notice to these legislators that the people are paying attention. That we take this seriously and there are citizens out here beyond the teabag contingent they pander to. It also presents serves to inform the public about how this is outside of the normal order. I don't care if they get their feelings hurt. It is a public rebuke.

former9thward

(32,611 posts)
47. Republicans and Democrats live in different nations.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 03:24 PM
Mar 2015

Republicans don't care about Democratic criticism because the people they represent don't care. Democrats don't care about Republican criticism because the people they represent don't care.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
50. There is a full range of political opinion, including those
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 03:28 PM
Mar 2015

who sit out elections. So should we just sit quietly and events play out without a whimper? I think not. And those who would tell us that speaking up doesn't matter serve the status quo, which is also not acceptable in my opinion. I will voice my opinion and I do not support being manipulated or drummed into a war on false pretenses.

former9thward

(32,611 posts)
53. I agree with your post.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 03:56 PM
Mar 2015

No one should sit anything out they want to speak on. But most people just tune out criticism of "their" side.

TheKentuckian

(25,299 posts)
52. The later is dicey at best, all we ever hear about is what the TeaPubliKlans will say or do.
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 03:34 PM
Mar 2015

I see one party that doesn't give a fuck what the other or indeed anyone has to say about anything and one that is jumping at shadows and cowering at the next harsh accusation from the "Not a Fuck to Give" Party.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
49. Haven't done anything all day but call,
Tue Mar 10, 2015, 03:26 PM
Mar 2015

Tweet and email every asshole on the list. Say we will make sure this is their last term and will do our best to see them in jail.

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