Last August, HRC used exactly the same words as Bibi to justify his No Two-State stand.

[leveymg]

Netanyahu:

“There cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the Jordan River.”

- Benjamin Netanyahu, Press Conference, July 11, 2014, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/benjamin-netanyahu-palest_n_5598997.html


HRC: “If I were the prime minister of Israel, you’re damn right I would expect to have control over security,” Clinton said of the West Bank, citing the need to “protect Israel from the influx of Hamas or cross-border attacks from anywhere else.” - Interview with Jeffrey Goldberg, The Atlantic, Aug 10 2014,
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/hillary-clinton-failure-to-help-syrian-rebels-led-to-the-rise-of-isis/375832/

Full excerpt:

Clinton also seemed to take an indirect shot at administration critics of Netanyahu, who has argued that the rise of Muslim fundamentalism in the Middle East means that Israel cannot, in the foreseeable future, withdraw its forces from much of the West Bank. “If I were the prime minister of Israel, you’re damn right I would expect to have control over security, because even if I’m dealing with [Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud] Abbas, who is 79 years old, and other members of Fatah, who are enjoying a better lifestyle and making money on all kinds of things, that does not protect Israel from the influx of Hamas or cross-border attacks from anywhere else. With Syria and Iraq, it is all one big threat. So Netanyahu could not do this in good conscience.”

[Thinkingabout]

1. So, are they right or wrong?

[leveymg]

4. Regardless. Nobody seems particularly surprised that HRC is running with Bibi against Obama

on these essential Mideast war and peace issues. Is that okay with you?

[Thinkingabout]

6. Now how did you vome to this conclusion from these statements. Maybe it is

Netanyahu who is running with Hillary.

[leveymg]

7. He was the first to say by a few days, so I'll give him credit.

Obviously, from her wording, Hillary was well aware of Bibi's statement, and what it means, and even supports it "in all good conscience." Why are there still people here insisting she supports the Obama Administration's position?

[Thinkingabout]

9. Would you ever believe as SOS and Bibi would have gotten into a discussion before or just

By chance two people could have a similar opinion?

[leveymg]

11. What I believe isn't really important. What's clear is that she supports Bibi and is against Obama

on this issue. Perhaps, she always has been, so she's now running against Madam Secretary, as well. Come to think of it, Bibi has also changed his public tune on this since 2009. So they're both also running against their former selves.

[Thinkingabout]

19. You don't have anything to support your thoughts and if it was in the pastshe did not attend the

Speech, she is with Obama. She spent four years promoting his agenda, not Netanyahu agenda. Facts.

[leveymg]

26. I disagree with your spin on this. The plain-language of both statements is virtually identical.

It makes no difference if Hill was there or not. That isn't even relevant to the question of whose side Hillary is really playing for. She's really only on her own side.

[Thinkingabout]

28. Good, you dont accept my spin, gotcha ya, doesnt make me wrong and I dont accept your spin.

[leveymg]

30. Let's hit that ball across the net another few times.

Top-spin, side-spin, however you want to play it.

[cali]

2. Hillary will be much more supportive of Nuttyahu than Obama

she'll support Israel no matter what. she passionately defended Israel for its last incursion into Gaza.

[awake]

3. I want a President who passionately defends our country

supporting "Israel no matter what" may not be in the United States or Israel's best long run interest. A true friend lets a friend know when they are on the wrong track, unconditional support is not always helpful.

[cali]

5. supporting Israel no matter what is NOT in the best interests of either Israel or the U.S.

I think you missed the point of my comment.

[Aerows]

10. Psst

I think they actually got your point and reiterated it.

[Thinkingabout]

8. Hillary was in DC on the Netanyahu speech day and was encouraged to attend

No record of her attending. RW tried but failed. Maybe she supported Obama on this occasion.

[leveymg]

12. That would have put her in a position where she might be expected to comment. So she didn't attend.

She chose her moment to make the public break with Obama on the 2SS, but not many in the trusty MSM even seemed to notice, much less call her on it.

I wouldn't take that as a sign that she supported Obama then anymore than she does today.

[Thinkingabout]

16. She still had the right to comment. Just pointing out she did not, perhaps in step with Obama.

If she was so in step with Netanyahu she would have attended and or have met with him. Yes she stood with Obama.

[leveymg]

29. Her comment, in fact, was issued to Goldberg a month after Bibi's pronouncement.

And, Hillary is most certainly in step with Bibi and contrary to Obama. It leaves nothing to the imagination.

[Thinkingabout]

31. I see what you are saying, I disagree with your spin.

[leveymg]

32. Back at you. Spin away.

[Thinkingabout]

34. here is more information

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/clinton-two-state-solution-still-possible-for-israel-palestinians-1.320369

[leveymg]

36. Thnak you for that. It provides context about collapse of talks over continued settlement

building in '09-'10, but nothing about any agreement by the Palestinians to disarm without a credible security guarantee from the U.S.

[Thinkingabout]

37. Yes about a two state solution which has been Obama's agenda since he has been president,

[Fred Sanders]

13. Not the same at all, but word games are always fun distractions.

[cali]

14. you're an amazing mental contortionist when it comes to Hillary.

[ann---]

15. That is why I will not vote for her

period.

[Thinkingabout]

17. Are you voting for the GOP?

[ann---]

39. No

Writing in Kucinich

[Chathamization]

18. Eh, that is the two-state position. This is from 2014, it was a couple of weeks ago when comments

were made that suggested that Netanyahu had given up his two-state stance. A fully sovereign Palestinian state has never been considered, and wasn't going to be offered by the Zionist Union. Even Obama's position seems to be that a Palestinian state couldn't have it's own military, and that transfer of security would be done at the discretion of the Israelis.

[leveymg]

20. I didn't read any reference to "no Palestinian military" in that

Last edited Sun Mar 22, 2015, 10:54 AM - Edit history (1)

article laying out the Obama Admin. stance on Palestinian statehood, vintage 2011. You must be thinking of another statement.

[Chathamization]

21. "non-militarized state" from the article. The Palestinian "state" not being allowed to have a

military has been an ongoing Israeli demand (amongst others). A fully sovereign state has never been on the table.

[leveymg]

22. If you read the Atlantic intw, HRC is taking an even more hardline

position - Netanyahu's opposition to two states consciensable, HRC seems to saying, so long as any neighboring state is potentially hostile to Israel, " it is all one big threat." Hillary literally seems to be demanding a disarming of the entire region - Israel excepted - before statehood should be granted to Palestine.

[Chathamization]

24. But like I said, that wasn't even considred opposition to two-states; last year, Netanyahu was

considered to be theoretically in favor of it (which is why his remarks a couple weeks back were taken as him abandoning that position).

I'm wary of taking too much from that Atlantic interview, in mostly because I hate interviews that aren't transcriptions (it makes it terribly easy to mislead people, intentionally or unintentionally), but also because Jeffrey Goldberg isn't particularly trustworthy.

Which isn't to say that Clinton's hawkishness doesn't bother me. It's actually the main thing I worry about should she become president.

[leveymg]

25. Please provide a link to Netanyahu's 2014 statement you reference.

Goldberg's article includes a verbatim transcript - it's at the bottom.

[Chathamization]

33. Thanks. The transcript shows Clinton in favor of a two-state solution, take a position that seems to

align with the Obama administration's. It also shows that she's taking about Netanyahu's two-state stand, not his opposition to it:

I had the last face-to-face negotiations between Abbas and Netanyahu. [Secretary of State John] Kerry never got there. I had them in the room three times with [former Middle East negotiator] George Mitchell and me, and that was it. And I saw Netanyahu move from being against the two-state solution to announcing his support for it, to considering all kinds of Barak-like options, way far from what he is, and what he is comfortable with.

Now I put Jerusalem in a different category. That is the hardest issue, Again, based on my experience—and you know, I got Netanyahu to agree to the unprecedented settlement freeze, it did not cover East Jerusalem, but it did cover the West Bank and it was actually legitimate and it did stop new housing starts for 10 months. It took me nine months to get Abbas into the negotiations even after we delivered on the settlement freeze, he had a million reasons, some of them legitimate, some of them the same old, same old.

So what I tell people is, yeah, if I were the prime minister of Israel, you’re damn right I would expect to have control over security [on the West Bank], because even if I’m dealing with Abbas, who is 79 years old, and other members of Fatah, who are enjoying a better lifestyle and making money on all kinds of things, that does not protect Israel from the influx of Hamas or cross-border attacks from anywhere else. With Syria and Iraq, it is all one big threat. So Netanyahu could not do this in good conscience. If this were Rabin or Barak in his place—and I’ve talked to Ehud about this—they would have to demand a level of security that would be provided by the [Israel Defense Forces] for a period of time. And in my meetings with them I got Abbas to about six, seven, eight years on continued IDF presence. Now he’s fallen back to three, but he was with me at six, seven, eight. I got Netanyahu to go from forever to 2025. That’s a negotiation, okay? So I know. Dealing with Bibi is not easy, so people get frustrated and they lose sight of what we’re trying to achieve here.

[leveymg]

35. Actually, that excerpt shows that Bibi moved HRC's position in the end.

The meeting with Mitchell she references was back in 2009, I believe that was the last time Netanyahu spoke publicly on the subject before his July, 2014 press conference.

The Clinton interview we're talking about was last August, about a month after Bibi's pronouncement. She's now saying her position has shifted to embrace Bibi's categorical statement that so long as he's PM, there will be no Palestinian state that controls security on the West Bank.

[Chathamization]

38. No. That excerpt (which includes the quote from your OP) is from the 2014 interview. Hillary is

talking about how she was able to move Netanyahu towards a two-state solution ("I got Netanyahu to go from forever to 2025" and "I got Netanyahu to go from forever to 2025&quot . She does mention that she thinks it's legitimate for Israel to be in control of security for a number of years before handing security over to the Palestinians, which is also the position of the Obama administration and has pretty much been the ongoing Israeli position on the two-state solution (though handing security over is a grossly generous term for what's proposed, as I mentioned above). It's support for the two-state plane, not support for Netanyahu abandoning the two-state plan.

[sadoldgirl]

23. This whole dispute about a two state

solution, was essentially stopped by Begin against
Reagan as far as I know. Everything afterwards is
just a fake.

This put Obama in a bad place which he did not
appreciate. Still he tried to stop Israel from taking
more land from the Westbank. That with his new
election appeal was refused by Bibi.

I honestly don't know, where HRC stands on that.

[leveymg]

27. Sadly, in the end, you may be right. Israel may never permit a Palestinian state

and this has been Kabuki theater, with the US playing a bit role. Hillary continues to play her own part.