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sheshe2

(83,633 posts)
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 08:18 PM Mar 2015

10 reasons why girls and women are essential to ending extreme poverty





ONE’s new report, Poverty is Sexist: Why Girls and Women Must be at the Heart of the Fight to End Extreme Poverty, addresses the fact that girls and women are prevented from reaching their full potential socially, economically and legally – especially in the developing world.

Across every key gender indicator, life is significantly harder for girls and women in the least developed countries compared to those living in other countries. While men in poor countries are also disadvantaged, the gender gap between males and females is even larger in the poorest countries.

This needs to change – and not only because it is a source of endemic, global injustice. Put simply, poverty is sexist, and we won’t end it unless we face up to this fact.

Though this list could go on indefinitely, here are 10 reasons why girls and women are essential to ending extreme poverty:

Read More http://www.one.org/us/2015/03/10/10-reasons-why-girls-and-women-are-essential-to-ending-extreme-poverty/
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10 reasons why girls and women are essential to ending extreme poverty (Original Post) sheshe2 Mar 2015 OP
Why are women poor? Warpy Mar 2015 #1
TY! freshwest Mar 2015 #2
Welcome. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #3
first four reasons from the article Liberal_in_LA Mar 2015 #4
Yes! sheshe2 Mar 2015 #5
K&R! smirkymonkey Mar 2015 #6
So it would be better if poverty were more equal opportunity, is that the idea? How about just ND-Dem Mar 2015 #7
Did you read the friggin article? one_voice Mar 2015 #8
Yes, I read the article. It starts from this premise: "Poverty is sexist." And goes on: ND-Dem Mar 2015 #9
Well while you complain about the fact that it's based on women's issues... one_voice Mar 2015 #10
Maybe you believe that, but it hasn't worked out that way in practice. Ever. rather the opposite. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #13
So you're saying that helping lift women out of poverty makes men poorer? KitSileya Mar 2015 #15
I didn't make that claim. That's your spin. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #20
I am seeking clarification here. KitSileya Mar 2015 #21
I just gave you a post full of data. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #22
So I see. But what do American numbers have to do with world poverty? KitSileya Mar 2015 #24
so your theory of equality only applies to the third world? and what americans should do is ND-Dem Mar 2015 #26
Imperialism? KitSileya Mar 2015 #29
Microloans = bullshit failure. They put people into debt and that's the point. Schools for girls ND-Dem Mar 2015 #37
Women are half the world population and give birth to males and females. Both sexes benefit. freshwest Mar 2015 #66
I really do not understand your anger in this thread. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #46
His concern is with his own wallet, it would seem. Blames women for depressing wages.... bettyellen Mar 2015 #52
i came home from work and read that crap. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #53
As a female minimum wage worker, I already have pay parity with my male coworkers. And ND-Dem Mar 2015 #56
I don't know anything about that???? sheshe2 Mar 2015 #58
you weren't making minimum wage. i'm attacked everytime i come here. take a look ND-Dem Mar 2015 #59
I sent you mail. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #60
I've been a 'she' over 60 years now. I'm an unmarried female minimum wage worker, and have been ND-Dem Mar 2015 #55
not authority- just telling you like it is.Women and children so much worse off, here and on every bettyellen Mar 2015 #61
if, when you say "men," you mean folks like bruce rauner, I agree. If you mean the poor male ND-Dem Mar 2015 #65
The kind of nutrition they're talking about is, like the award recipients, linked to Gates, Monsanto ND-Dem Mar 2015 #54
It has been shown time after time that when poor women earn, they put most of their money to benefit the Luminous Animal Mar 2015 #11
What a bunch of sexist, classist crap. Yeah, poor men waste all their money -- only poor men ND-Dem Mar 2015 #12
They found exactly that happening among the Masai in Tanzania.... bettyellen Mar 2015 #31
yet middle class & rich men don't do that. only poor men. funny. but it's a useful finding if ND-Dem Mar 2015 #32
Not discussing the middle class- you're ignoring that supporting women helped everyone -boys and men bettyellen Mar 2015 #34
actually it's upper-class people derailing it, because they're the primary beneficiaries of ND-Dem Mar 2015 #35
"experts" say anything. depends on who pays them. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #36
Except when women earn- their resources tend to enrich everyone. bettyellen Mar 2015 #38
Women have always earned; poor women stay poor despite earning. I'd be willing to bet ND-Dem Mar 2015 #39
They are dramatically poorer than the poorest men worldwide- this starves the children bettyellen Mar 2015 #41
why don't you argue the point rather than impugning me personally? i haven't impugned you. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #43
Lol, wanting equal pay for women is divisive now? Not among progressives it isn't! bettyellen Mar 2015 #44
in theory it's not. in practice, it is. and it's also a means of racheting down wages for everyone ND-Dem Mar 2015 #50
HA HA, just like it's women's fault less men are going to college these days. Women can't make any bettyellen Mar 2015 #51
I've already told you, repeatedly, I'm a female mimimum wage worker, and an older one. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #57
It doesn't matter what sex you are if you blame women for depressing men's salaries. bettyellen Mar 2015 #62
I use that line too when a study invalidates my biases... LanternWaste Mar 2015 #63
i speak from experience in the field myself. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #64
It reminds me of the men who bemoan that poor guys can't get girlfriends KitSileya Mar 2015 #17
Lovely post. Thank you. Luminous Animal Mar 2015 #19
I second that emotion. nt raccoon Mar 2015 #27
"When poor men earn, they spend most their money on themselves (gambling, liquor, prostitutes…)" ND-Dem Mar 2015 #23
It was the reality that NGOs and relief workers found in many communities. Those that actually care bettyellen Mar 2015 #40
But just *poor* men -- not middle class or rich men, eh? So your plan is to leave poor men ND-Dem Mar 2015 #42
Poor men aren't at the bottom- it's children and women who are. bettyellen Mar 2015 #45
What? You're angry that spending effort on women is the best way to end poverty? KitSileya Mar 2015 #14
There is no changing of places on a rope WhiteTara Mar 2015 #30
there is if you knock the other guy off. and i'm pretty sure my position on the rope is a hell of a ND-Dem Mar 2015 #33
If women would empower other women, it would help greatly. Major Hogwash Mar 2015 #16
I agree, Major! sheshe2 Mar 2015 #47
I don't like to use the word hate, but . . . Major Hogwash Mar 2015 #49
Roughly speaking, it equates to the saying about educating women KitSileya Mar 2015 #18
K & R Thank you sheshe2 lovemydog Mar 2015 #25
A thread of awesome. sibelian Mar 2015 #28
K&R! Omaha Steve Mar 2015 #48

Warpy

(111,122 posts)
1. Why are women poor?
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 08:40 PM
Mar 2015
Why did men drink wine and women water? Why was one sex so prosperous and the other so poor? What effect has poverty on fiction? What conditions are necessary for the creation of works of art?


From "A Room of one's Own," the whole chapter is a good read: https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/w/woolf/virginia/w91r/chapter2.html

 

Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
4. first four reasons from the article
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 11:20 PM
Mar 2015

1. Globally, providing female farmers with the same access to productive resources as male farmers could reduce the number of people hungry by 100-150 million.

2. Reducing differences in the employment rate between men and women by 2017 could generate an additional $1.6 trillion in global output (measured in purchasing power parity).

3. Every year that a girl spends in school can boost her future income by 10–20%.

4. It is estimated that an increase in educational equality can increase income per capita by 23%.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
7. So it would be better if poverty were more equal opportunity, is that the idea? How about just
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 11:54 PM
Mar 2015

frigging ending *poverty*?

We can fight each other for places on the greased rope forever, the .01%ers love it.

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
8. Did you read the friggin article?
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 12:07 AM
Mar 2015

It says it right in the subject header:

10 reasons why girls and women are essential to ending extreme poverty


If you read the article it the benefits are for everyone--men, women, children. Sheesh...
 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
9. Yes, I read the article. It starts from this premise: "Poverty is sexist." And goes on:
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 12:19 AM
Mar 2015

"Across every key gender indicator, life is significantly harder for girls and women in the least developed countries compared to those living in other countries. While men in poor countries are also disadvantaged, the gender gap between males and females is even larger in the poorest countries."


End fucking poverty. It's not a gendered issue. Stop making it one and work on ending poverty.

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
10. Well while you complain about the fact that it's based on women's issues...
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 12:30 AM
Mar 2015

I'll support it because IT DOES work on ending poverty for BOTH men and women. Guess some people just can't see the forest for the trees, even if it's the friggin forest they wanted to get to....


 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
13. Maybe you believe that, but it hasn't worked out that way in practice. Ever. rather the opposite.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:18 AM
Mar 2015

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
15. So you're saying that helping lift women out of poverty makes men poorer?
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:37 AM
Mar 2015

Have any statistics to support that claim?

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
20. I didn't make that claim. That's your spin.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 03:40 AM
Mar 2015

Last edited Sun Mar 22, 2015, 04:59 AM - Edit history (1)

My claim is: poor is poor, and poverty is the issue.


* Black & latino women are most likely to have pay parity with black and latino men (91% parity) -- and black and latino women are also most likely to be poor. Low wages = poverty, period.

* Low wage working women in general, including white women, are most likely to receive "gender-equal" wages. It doesn't make them less poor. Low wages = poverty, period.





* Male wages have stagnated since the 1970s, during which period women's increased moderately. At the same time, the real value of the minimum wage declined, pulling down the wages of low-income workers generally. The result: only the top tier of households gained, while the rest flatlined. Low wages = poverty, period.












*Although younger cohorts have the most gender-equal wages, they are also the households doing worse economically in comparison with their historic peers. Poor = poor, regardless of gender equality.

"◾The age cohort with the grimmest history, of course is the 15-24 bracket. As of 2011 they have the sole distinction of a lower real median income than their 1967 counterparts — 7.9% lower. At least 2011 was better for this cohort than 2011, when they were 11.9% below their real 1967 income level."






* In fact, in contrast with post-war trends, no one is doing well but the upper middle class and the rich. And *that's* the real problem, one that equalizing the wages of the already poor won't remedy. They're already equal, and still poor.





According to the most recent analysis prepared for the U.S. Department of Labor:

The raw wage gap data shows that a woman would earn roughly 73.7% to 77% of what a man would earn over their lifetime. However, when controllable variables are accounted for, such as job position, total hours worked, number of children, and the frequency at which unpaid leave is taken, in addition to other factors, the U.S. Department of Labor found in 2008 that the gap can be brought down from 23% to between 4.8% and 7.1%.[6]

Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap



KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
21. I am seeking clarification here.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 04:05 AM
Mar 2015

Are you then saying that focusing on women doesn't help lift anyone out of poverty?

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
24. So I see. But what do American numbers have to do with world poverty?
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 05:21 AM
Mar 2015

The article in the OP deals with global poverty, that is, absolute poverty, not the relative poverty of the poor of the US.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
26. so your theory of equality only applies to the third world? and what americans should do is
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 05:37 AM
Mar 2015

muck around changing other people in places they don't even understand.

not making them less poor you see, just changing relationships between men and women and claiming that will make them less poor.

sounds like imperialism to me.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
29. Imperialism?
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 06:12 AM
Mar 2015

How about reparations in the form of financial aid? How to use that financial aid is the question. If international organizations use that money on helping lift women specifically out of poverty, it helps more than if they spend half of it on men and half on women. If they build schools for girls, give women microloans, give women medication to make sure they don't transmit hiv to their fetus, improving women's access to energy - these things have an enormous impact on the micro-economy of their communities. If the men feel left out, they will have to adapt.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
37. Microloans = bullshit failure. They put people into debt and that's the point. Schools for girls
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:19 PM
Mar 2015

= training for them work as cheap factory labor for the 1st world; because women workers are more docile, and work for less, than men.

Traditional community values destroyed and families and communities atomized: mission accomplished.

Trojan horse bullshit.


One of the most popular programs for helping the world's poor has gone sour in India.

Microcredit, the practice of making small loans to very poor people, grew into a multibillion-dollar business. But microfinance companies have been accused of predatory lending and collection practices so harsh that they drove some borrowers to suicide. One state government in India has enacted legislation that will, in effect, put the microlenders out of business.

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/31/132497267/indias-poor-reel-under-microfinance-debt-burden



CGD and the Financial Access Initiative have just released a working paper by Jonathan Morduch and myself that critiques what have been the leading studies of whether microcredit reduces poverty....

Another highlight: when we re-run the complicated regression that is the source of a statistic Muhammad Yunus has cited, that "5 percent of the Grameen borrowers get out of poverty every year," we get the opposite sign. Seemingly, lending to women makes families poorer...but I just told you how much credence we put on such claims about cause and effect.

Bottom line: the academic evidence that microcredit reduces poverty is really weak.

http://www.cgdev.org/blog/new-challenge-studies-saying-microcredit-cuts-poverty

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
66. Women are half the world population and give birth to males and females. Both sexes benefit.
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 11:27 PM
Mar 2015

Women are unlikely to withhold education and other tools to ease poverty for religious or the other reasons it's done to them. And a 'rising tide lifts all boats.' Why not make these steps to lift up half the human race, in some nations where girls are not even given birth certificates, as if they are non-persons?

I think something must be done, no matter how disdained the solutions may be. Because of the forces arrayed against equality, we must not just leave the solution as an it's not worth doing, or a 'do nothing' and leave it there. I think we can trust women as well as men to solve this problem.

Saul Alinsky, a well-known and effective community activist, said this:

These Do-Nothings profess a commitment to social change for ideals of justice, equality, and opportunity, and then abstain from and discourage all effective action for change. They are known by their brand, 'I agree with your ends but not your means'.

Alinsky wrote these books that are considered standards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rules_for_Radicals.png

Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals is the late work of community organizer Saul D. Alinsky, and his last book, published in 1971 shortly before his death. His goal for the Rules for Radicals was to create a guide for future community organizers to use in uniting low-income communities, or "Have-Nots", in order to empower them to gain social, political, and economic equality by challenging the current agencies that promoted their inequality.[1] Within it, Alinsky compiled the lessons he had learned throughout his personal experiences of community organizing spanning from 1939-1971 and targeted these lessons at the current, new generation of radicals.[2]

Divided into ten chapters, each chapter of Rules for Radicals provides a lesson on how a community organizer can accomplish the goal of successfully uniting people into an active organization with the power to effect change on a variety of issues. Though targeted at community organization, these chapters also touch on a myriad of other issues that range from ethics, education, communication, and symbol construction to nonviolence and political philosophy.[3]

Though published for the new generation of counterculture-era organizers in 1971, Alinsky's principles have been successfully applied over the last four decades by numerous government, labor, community, and congregation-based organizations, and the main themes of his organizational methods that were elucidated upon in Rules for Radicals have been recurring elements in political campaigns in recent years.


Democrats know something that is imperfect ideologically is better than nothing.

sheshe2

(83,633 posts)
46. I really do not understand your anger in this thread.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 07:24 PM
Mar 2015

Nutrition

Poor nutrition is a central cause for poor health and development outcomes for women and children and a contributor to gender inequality through lowered productivity. More than 55 million children in Sub-Saharan Africa are affected by stunting and 46% of pregnant women are anemic. Poor breastfeeding practices mean that infants do not get the nutrition they require in the first several months of life.
rsz_ruth-oniango

Health

In Africa, more women (58%) than men live with HIV. Many women still lack access to quality health services and programs that will enable them to stay healthy.

Agriculture

Investments in sub-Saharan African agriculture are 11 times more effective at reducing poverty than investments in other sectors. As one half of the agriculture labor force, women make a critical contribution, yet lack adequate resources for food production (i.e extension services, financing, etc.).

70 of Africa’s top female scientists recently received the AWARD (African Women in Agricultural Research & Development) Fellowship and work hard to increase women’s participation and productivity in agriculture. The AWARD Fellowship cultivates female leadership in agriculture through the mentoring and training of female agriculturalists in Africa to provide support to value chain research, gender responsiveness, and designing innovations for smallholder farmers. Recipients of the award have varied focus, including clean energy technology for smallholder farmers or empowering rural women through capacity building in agriculture extension, nutrition education, and livelihood programs.

More http://www.one.org/us/2015/03/19/leading-african-women-in-development/

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
52. His concern is with his own wallet, it would seem. Blames women for depressing wages....
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 10:18 PM
Mar 2015

when for years many men were fine with women and people of color make shit bank, as long as they did fine.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6401544

sheshe2

(83,633 posts)
53. i came home from work and read that crap.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 10:24 PM
Mar 2015

Thanks bettyellen for this response.

HA HA, just like it's women's fault less men are going to college these days. Women can't make any

gains without the resentment of some men, it seems. Too fucking bad for them. They use the same line of reasoning to keep POC in line- wait on the back of the bus till ALL are lifted. And that meas men first!


Women of all classes are pushing for more opportunities and fairer pay- and they damned well deserve it after centuries of being treated as second class citizens. It's bullshit to make excuses to set aside their concerns- and not progressive in the least.
Done here.


Brava!

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
56. As a female minimum wage worker, I already have pay parity with my male coworkers. And
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 10:29 PM
Mar 2015

we're all still poor.

I doubt you know anything about it.

sheshe2

(83,633 posts)
58. I don't know anything about that????
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 10:50 PM
Mar 2015

I am 62 effing years old. I have had to change jobs several times because the companies I worked for went out of business. I trained new hires. Men, that were paid more than I. So eff the fact that I am stupid and do not know squat.

I am in commission sales, minimum plus commission. Guess what? Brick and Mortar stores are no more. They use me for info and then order on line. We are dying, my paycheck is a joke. I took a 50% pay cut with my current job. I barely cover my rent, forget the utilities. We are going through the coldest winter ever right now. Utilities doubled over last year. Do not preach to me!

Your posts, IMHO are pretty cruel and nasty.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
59. you weren't making minimum wage. i'm attacked everytime i come here. take a look
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 01:54 AM
Mar 2015

through this thread if you want to see cruel and nasty -- it ain't me. it's *your* friends. and I didn't say *anything* like you are stupid and don't know squat.

I make minimum wage. that's a fact. I'm a woman. that's a fact. I'm dirt poor and will die dirt poor and nobody here speaks for me or those like me.

don't *you* preach to *me.*

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
55. I've been a 'she' over 60 years now. I'm an unmarried female minimum wage worker, and have been
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 10:27 PM
Mar 2015

for quite a while. With no pension and at this point no savings because of illness.

Unlike yourself, I'd bet.

So don't pretend you have some right to command authority over me by virtue of being female.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
61. not authority- just telling you like it is.Women and children so much worse off, here and on every
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 10:41 AM
Mar 2015

continent worldwide. We have been for centuries! Waiting for men to share their wealth isn't working. You have to resign to life of dependency to get a share, and then it gets taken away. Women need equal opportunities and pay. We shouldn't be expected to settle for 25-30% less any longer. There is going to be no sudden raise in men's salaries that will put a dent in the disparity, and it must end.

Hearing that our salaries dragged them down is bullshit- most men didn't give it a thought when we made shit pay as long as they were doing well- the world was fine with us being under compensated. Now it's only MRA idiots who long for those days, because they want women to be dependent.

Those that see any women's gains as hurting men are foolish- screwing over 3/4 of the population (women and children) with that wrongheaded idea. Deeply impoverished children is the result of such narrow thinking.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
65. if, when you say "men," you mean folks like bruce rauner, I agree. If you mean the poor male
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 11:59 AM
Mar 2015

partners of poor women, I'll have to object.

at any rate, you're not telling me "how it is," just how *you* think it is, like anyone else with an opinion.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
54. The kind of nutrition they're talking about is, like the award recipients, linked to Gates, Monsanto
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 10:25 PM
Mar 2015

Sainsbury, Ford & Rockefeller Foundations, etc.

It's not about women, it's about power and control.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
11. It has been shown time after time that when poor women earn, they put most of their money to benefit the
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 12:41 AM
Mar 2015

family and community. When poor men earn, they spend most their money on themselves (gambling, liquor, prostitutes…) So yes, providing women with the means to provide for themselves also lifts the entire community.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
12. What a bunch of sexist, classist crap. Yeah, poor men waste all their money -- only poor men
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:15 AM
Mar 2015

though, middle class and rich men don't. And of course, women never waste money, whatever class they belong to.

What a bunch of crap. I can't believe this crap.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
31. They found exactly that happening among the Masai in Tanzania....
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 10:05 AM
Mar 2015

Programs were created to help the impoverished areas by having them participate and earn money working with the tour operators. Originally the money went to the men. They found in most cases no money was going to support their numerous wives and the children were not better fed, clothed of educated. They had to switch it up and work with the wives, and immediately they saw results in improving the standard of living for everyone on their group. They explained this in front of men of the tribe, who laughed and nodded in complete agreement when the guides said they'd been spending the money on nothing but moonshine.
They thought it was funny, freely admitted that it was so.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
32. yet middle class & rich men don't do that. only poor men. funny. but it's a useful finding if
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 01:07 PM
Mar 2015

you want to disempower poor men.

which is exactly what's going on. just as was done to the black community.

in the name of 'liberal/progressive' values.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
34. Not discussing the middle class- you're ignoring that supporting women helped everyone -boys and men
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:04 PM
Mar 2015

also. I thought helping boys and men was something you cared about- why are you ignoring what the experts say works best?

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
35. actually it's upper-class people derailing it, because they're the primary beneficiaries of
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:09 PM
Mar 2015

the policies advocated.

two income poor families = still poor.

two income upper middle class families = top 1%.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
36. "experts" say anything. depends on who pays them.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:12 PM
Mar 2015

1 income poor = still poor.

2 income poor = still poor.

1 income upper middle class = upper middle class.

2 income upper middle class = top 1%.

minimum wage female and male workers already have pay parity. that and $1 = a cup of coffee.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
38. Except when women earn- their resources tend to enrich everyone.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:26 PM
Mar 2015

Sounds like this is a tough concept for you to swallow, perhaps you need to read up about what's actually working pulling people out of deep poverty globally.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
39. Women have always earned; poor women stay poor despite earning. I'd be willing to bet
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:37 PM
Mar 2015

a bit I've read more than you on the topic. Enough to see through the glad-hand sunshine Trojan horse bull you see to put so much stock in.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
41. They are dramatically poorer than the poorest men worldwide- this starves the children
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:51 PM
Mar 2015

It couldn't be easier to understand- but you seem to support the stays quo, eh?

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
43. why don't you argue the point rather than impugning me personally? i haven't impugned you.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 03:06 PM
Mar 2015

yes, I'm a single, female minimum wage worker who supports the status quo. what bullshit.

I understand a hell of a lot better than you, I think.

"divisiveness is in the interest of the billionaire class."

and atomized 3rd-world female labor works cheap and causes fewer problems than its male peers.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
50. in theory it's not. in practice, it is. and it's also a means of racheting down wages for everyone
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 09:55 PM
Mar 2015

and it's succeeding.

but the upper class folks pushing it don't actually care about poor people; they have their own agendas.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
51. HA HA, just like it's women's fault less men are going to college these days. Women can't make any
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 10:12 PM
Mar 2015

gains without the resentment of some men, it seems. Too fucking bad for them. They use the same line of reasoning to keep POC in line- wait on the back of the bus till ALL are lifted. And that meas men first!

Women of all classes are pushing for more opportunities and fairer pay- and they damned well deserve it after centuries of being treated as second class citizens. It's bullshit to make excuses to set aside their concerns- and not progressive in the least.
Done here.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
57. I've already told you, repeatedly, I'm a female mimimum wage worker, and an older one.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 10:30 PM
Mar 2015

I doubt you know anything about what that means, which is why I doubt you know anything about what matters most to this demographic.

I also doubt you know much about ruling class techniques to pit different categories of workers against each other to keep them all down.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
62. It doesn't matter what sex you are if you blame women for depressing men's salaries.
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 10:48 AM
Mar 2015

The truth is, men were fine with us getting cheated, and now they blame us for this situation? Not my fault they didn't see lower salaries coming. Seeing it from a zero-sum perspective is foolish- it is true everyone should be paid more.
But women should see more gains, because they and their children who they support are currently suffering a great deal more. Fighting against a level playing field is wrong headed. We aren;t going to get parity unless we insist on it.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
63. I use that line too when a study invalidates my biases...
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 11:41 AM
Mar 2015

"experts" say anything. depends on who pays them..."

I use that line too when a study invalidates my biases...

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
17. It reminds me of the men who bemoan that poor guys can't get girlfriends
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:46 AM
Mar 2015

when they don't need men to be their breadwinners anymore. There's no understanding of the fact that when women don't need the man's paycheck, the man must bring other things to the table, say, like respect, love, kindness, good parenting skills etc.

It's the same when we work on getting women out of poverty. Perhaps afterwards we should also work on getting men to understand that when the women don't need their paycheck anymore, they actually have to change too - because the women suddenly get choices when they get lifted out of poverty. Of course, that is also the reason so many men hate feminism - when women have choices, they don't choose men who hate feminism....

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
23. "When poor men earn, they spend most their money on themselves (gambling, liquor, prostitutes…)"
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 05:03 AM
Mar 2015

Poor men are total losers and wastrels apparently.

Unlike middle class or upper class men. Or women of any class.

This is bullshit, sexist, classist -- and racist -- crap.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
40. It was the reality that NGOs and relief workers found in many communities. Those that actually care
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:49 PM
Mar 2015

And work on putting food in starving boys and girls bellies need to do what they can to save lives.
Amazing you pretend to care about this, when it appears your real concern is not keeping women down at the bottom of the ladder.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
42. But just *poor* men -- not middle class or rich men, eh? So your plan is to leave poor men
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:53 PM
Mar 2015

at the bottom while elevating poor women?

I repeat: Poor single women = cheap docile labor for 1st world multinationals. To be used & thrown away and remain poor and atomized.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
45. Poor men aren't at the bottom- it's children and women who are.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 03:55 PM
Mar 2015

Why do you ignore this global reality? The stats bear out everywhere- from the USA to entire continents on the other side of the world.

Since when is equality for women divisive among anyone but the RW?

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
14. What? You're angry that spending effort on women is the best way to end poverty?
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:35 AM
Mar 2015

You'd rather they spend half their effort on less effective means to end poverty just to be fair to men? When ultimately, spending the effort on women benefit men also, because it benefits the families of women also.

In addition, the article states that in very poor communities, women are on average a lot poorer than their men compared to more affluent communities. So you would have the doctor leave the patient bleeding from an artery in order to spend equal time on the patient bleeding from a cut wound? I mean, the best would be if they were bleeding out at equal rates, so that the doctor could use equal time on both, but they're not. Women are poorer, and that is why we start with them.

WhiteTara

(29,692 posts)
30. There is no changing of places on a rope
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 09:49 AM
Mar 2015

there is a sharing of rope so that we don't fight over places on the only rope around. That's what the article is about, not shoving you off your vaunted position of higher place on the greased rope.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
33. there is if you knock the other guy off. and i'm pretty sure my position on the rope is a hell of a
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 01:57 PM
Mar 2015

lot lower than yours; pretty near the bottom, in fact, as I'm a female minimum wage worker. pay parity with men in the same jobs I already have.

I'm one of the people you supposedly want to 'help'. Raising the minimum wage would help a lot more. Supporting the labor movement would help a lot more too.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
16. If women would empower other women, it would help greatly.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:39 AM
Mar 2015

Instead of arguing with each other as to how to achieve the same goal of equality.
Conservative women like Phyllis Schlafly or Michelle Bachmann should agree with other women who are liberals how to achieve success.
I can't stand to listen to conservative women who sound like they are right about their approach to equality.
Conservative women sound like they are living in some odd sort of "Stepford Wives" kind of world.

sheshe2

(83,633 posts)
47. I agree, Major!
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 07:35 PM
Mar 2015

Women do need to empower women. I am embarrassed by the actions of the GOP women, the "Stepford Wives", so to speak of their white male GOP handlers. They are so brainwashed, I think they actually believe the crap they spew.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
49. I don't like to use the word hate, but . . .
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 07:56 PM
Mar 2015

. . . I hate it when women like Phyllis Schlafly espouse bullshit about women's equality.
She was one of the worst offenders, in my opinion.
Back in the 80s, it seemed like she was always on tv whenever women's issues were being discussed.
And she was always quoted in the media, saying crap about how wrong the feminists in the Democratic party were about their approach to equality.

She constantly argued that the conservative's approach to equality was better, but her arguments fell flat against the arguments that Betty Friedan made.

I imagine that she would argue that poverty isn't sexist, but it seems to me that you are on to something in this thread.
Maybe it's just because I have dreaming about you or something.
Maybe it's because I love you, or something like that.
I don't know.

But . . .

By Josie, I think you've got it!!


KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
18. Roughly speaking, it equates to the saying about educating women
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 02:52 AM
Mar 2015

Educate a man, and you educate a man. Educate a woman, and you educate a family. In very economically depressed societies, they are often very patriarchal, and that means that child rearing is women's work. When the women are educated, not only do they start protesting this, but they also teach any children they do have what they know. Any man who would want to help raise their children is ridiculed for doing women's work - which only feminism will change. Empowering women is good both for goose and gander.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
28. A thread of awesome.
Sun Mar 22, 2015, 06:11 AM
Mar 2015

In particular, this:

"If all women could access the care, commodities and services recommended by the World Health Organization (WHO), maternal deaths would drop by 67%, and newborn deaths would fall by 77%."

Time for a GLOBAL Universal Health Care movement, methinks.
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