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[boston bean]

This message was self-deleted by its author (boston bean) on Wed May 11, 2016, 10:35 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[NYC_SKP]

1. I have attended baby showers as a man and I threw one, too, in the 80's.

Right after college a girl I knew who didn't have many girly friends became pregnant and when I asked and learned that nobody was planning anything, I got all our mutual friends and some additional folks together and threw her a shower. Even the owners of the bodega we both shopped at came up with goodies from the store.

That was 30 years ago.

I see no reason baby showers should be for women only.

[elleng]

5. Love you MORE, SKP!

[Nye Bevan]

2. As a guy, that would be the last place I would want to be.

But I guess some modern men might enjoy it.

[elleng]

3. I won't label it 'internalized sexism,'

but I'm glad to hear it, I really appreciate the confluence of roles. I hope you'll enjoy active participation of daddy in the baby's life.

[philosslayer]

4. Yes, this is internalized sexism

Clearly. I find it interesting that on your post it also says you're "Ready for Hillary". Are you REALLY ready to knock down gender barriers? Really?

[boston bean]

6. Listen, there is not a one of us who is not a product of our environment.

You want to knock me for attempting/or recognizing that, go ahead.

[philosslayer]

16. You're the one who asked for opinions

And you got mine.

[boston bean]

18. Yep..

[cyberswede]

7. Seems fine to me.

If the parents both want to be there, that's great. And either or both could open the gifts.

But, I've also been to baby showers where some gifts are for the mother, so the dad might not have a use for lanolin cream intended for the new mommy.

It does seem weird that the dad "stole the show" in this case; usually the baby steals the show.

[Freddie]

8. My son-in-law was at my daughter's baby shower

All the guys (husbands/boyfriends of the ladies involved) were there. The ladies admired and gushed over all the baby stuff and the guys went outside and drank beer (it was July). Was nice to have them there to carry the heavy packages to the car.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. my wife had a couple of showers that were all-female...

then, for fun, we did a couple's shower... kind of like for weddings. all the guys brought me gag gifts and things to help me get the nursery ready to roll. it was a blast... i think i might have been uncomfortable in the situation you describe and i am thankful my wife got to be with all her female buddies without us crude guys along...

sP

[alphafemale]

10. Why would you want the father excluded?

Yeah fathers attended baby showers 3 decades ago.

As well as other men.

I haven't seen them as an exclusive Hen Fest in ages.

[boston bean]

14. Well, I guess the usual discussions that go on at showers

weren't happening, it was a much colder affair....

In the way that it was a much less intimate gathering than I was use too for these occasions... And the mother wasn't the center of attention after almost nine months carrying a baby in her uterus....

I've never been to one where the husband was the only male in attendance opening all the gifts.... but c'est la vie...

[cyberswede]

40. Maybe your niece thought it was only fair..

she got to carry the baby for 9 months, and he got to open some gifts.

As much as the father may want to be a part of a pregnancy, he can't really ever know how cool it is to feel the baby kick & move around. Yes, being pregnant has some uncomfortable parts, but it has some awesome parts, too.

But I know at some showers I've attended all the moms share pregnancy/childbirth stories - in sometimes colorful terms. LOL
I can see how having the father present might curtail some of that discussion.

[boston bean]

41. Well, she sat right next to him I believe expecting to open them... LOL

It's really not for me to say how she felt.... but it was awkward....

[cyberswede]

43. LOL - sounds like they should have at least taken turns

[alphafemale]

51. I've burned the ears of plenty of males.

There is nothing off the table.

Why would I hold my tongue just because a male is present?

They can't deal with me that is their problem.

[boston bean]

52. I have too, but I would probably not do so at a baby shower.

[snooper2]

72. Did he put on a show for all the ladies there?

Maybe you didn't stay long enough LOL

[Brother Buzz]

11. I wasn't invited

So I said to Hell with it and did a manly thing by inviting all the other uninvited male spouses, partners and male children to attend a truck museum up the road from the shower. We had a grand time.

[boston bean]

28. LOL. Sounds like you had a good time. :)

[Texasgal]

12. I threw a baby shower

for my brother and sister in law when they were expecting. All of the husbands of friends came... hell even my own DAD came! We had a blast... served some spiked punch for the rest of us un-preggy people!

[boston bean]

15. This was not that type of co-ed shower where all males in the family attended.

There was one male there. And he was opening the gifts... I don't know...

[Texasgal]

19. I think this is the new norm.

I understand you and see where you are coming from though.

[boston bean]

20. It really is just me... I'm just working my way through it.

I'm not immune to having these types of feelings and am working through it. I realize that there is sexism happening here...

But still, I couldn't help but feel for the mom who was overshadowed at her own baby shower.

[Texasgal]

36. To recognize it and

question it puts you in a far greater group than must people. I applaud you! <3

[boston bean]

53. Thanks TG!

<3 back at ya!

[one_voice]

13. It's not new to me...

The first time I went to one was 10+ years ago.

Not only was the father of the baby there friends of his and husbands of women that were there came. It was pretty big. The father and mother opened the presents together. He was a very good host as well.

I've been to some where the father was the only one there too.

I think it's pretty cool that dads are involved in the showers.

[boston bean]

17. Well, I can only go by my own experience, but this is the first baby

shower I attended where the only male in attendance was the father and he opened the gifts. So, cut me a bit of slack...

[one_voice]

32. I didn't mean anything by my comment...

I wasn't trying to be insulting. If it sounded that way, I'm sorry.

[boston bean]

34. No no no I didn't take it that way... that was why I put the smiley face.

My apologies to you that my comment wasn't more clear.

[one_voice]

38. No worries, the internets make it difficult for us sometimes..lol

[boston bean]

39. that they do!

[Thor_MN]

21. I might be going to a baby shower where there well could be no mother attending.

My cousin lives a few houses away from Joe and Joey, who have gotten some national attention in their quest to adopt.

http://www.lifelongadoptions.com/profile/Joejoey

Since a baby shower is about the baby and the parents, my feeling is they should be the focus rather than personal biases. A party for someone is not about me.

[Sissyk]

65. +100

Send our best to the family!

[KMOD]

22. I have known many people who are uncomfortable opening gifts.

Perhaps your niece is too.

I think it's great that the father to be was there as well. I'm sure he didn't crash it, your niece probably wanted him there.

[etherealtruth]

23. I think that is generally how things are now .... ?

I haven't been to all that many baby showers in the last ten years, but they have all involved the father, grandfather and other significant men.

Though I love gifting expectant parents/ new babies .... I have to admit ... I despise "showers" and have no problem sharing the pain (anyone that knows me in real life would never be able to tell that this is my feeling about showers ... just an anonymous internet confession)

[boston bean]

25. Really... I guess I really am behind the times...

Maybe some day we can get fathers paternity leave where they can really be involved in their childs life, especially the first year!

I guess my idea of a baby shower, was not really for the baby, but for the mother who has been incubating a baby for about 9 months. A special day for her and a day for women, who have experienced the same thing. I never really thought of it as for the baby, although the gifts were.

And you are right, they really aren't all that exciting...

[WorseBeforeBetter]

67. "A special day for her and a day for women, who have experienced the same thing."

This may come as a surprise to you, but child-free women around the world attend baby showers.

[Arkansas Granny]

24. I've been to a few baby showers where the expectant father attended.

I thought it was sweet that they wanted to participate. When my babies were born, daddy wasn't very involved with the whole childbirth experience.

[boston bean]

26. My husband didn't attend mine and it wasn't a precursor to him being uninvolved.

He was a great and involved father, who was lucky enough to get two months of paternity leave that he took and watched the new baby while I went back to work after my leave.

[BlueJazz]

27. If I were married, I'd leave it up to my wife. I wouldn't mind going if she wanted me there.

[Gormy Cuss]

29. Why should baby showers be the exclusive domain of women these days?

That's reinforcing gender stereotypes by assuming that the primary care of a baby is the mother's job.

[boston bean]

44. That I recognize, Gormy and therefore my conflicting thoughts....

I go back to feeling that a baby shower is not indicative of a woman taking on the primary care.

There is no baby yet.

I always thought of it as a day for the expectant mother to relax, share battle stories with other women who many of them have had the same experience.

I don't think of it as a day for the a baby either, although you when attending you are hoping to help out with the new responsibility by providing a gift for the baby after it is born.

If this was a big party with couples and male family members and friends this wouldn't even be a discussion.

Yet, as I say, I do recognize that my feelings on this, even the above are probably based in some societal roles that involves sexism.

[Gormy Cuss]

69. Bridal showers used to be mostly the domain of women too (hence the name)

Now they're more often called wedding showers to reflect the change to include the groom and other men. Showers historically had the role of easing the financial burden first of new household formation, then of setting up for the first child. We don't restrict them that way anymore. Couples who have been living independently for years don't need a wedding shower, but we still use this tradition because it's a good excuse for friends to host a lower key event before the nuptials. Baby showers these days are becoming common before the birth of second and subsequent children, again because it's a good excuse to show support in the relatively quiet time before a newborn arrives.

IMHO just as we have moved away from thinking that buying the linens, china, and kitchen goods is an aide to the bride alone, maybe we should start treating baby showers as support for both parties who are about to have their lives thrown into the chaos of becoming a parent.

[KittyWampus]

30. Let's examine what the role of a Baby Shower is. If it's to give women

a place to discuss the upcoming birth event from a woman's perspective- I say it isn't sexism.

If it's to celebrate the upcoming event with friends- I guess it might be. Although there is nothing wrong with having events for ones girl-friends without any guy-friends it obviously depends on expectant parents/family.

If it's a way to spread the wealth and make sure new mother has necessary baby items then it probably is sexism.

[boston bean]

46. Well, my thought was that it was the first in your scenario... but maybe I am just behind the times.

[JI7]

31. it's being the only Male that makes it kind of unusual

it might have been less so if they just had the event open to all. i remember going to a baby shower that was open to both sexes and it was just like many other parties which isn't limited by sex.

but it is probably just something you would get used to the more you experience it.

[boston bean]

33. Yeah, I think that might be my main issue.

Although, I am willing to examine my thoughts on this.

He's a good guy... I just was thinking that it was a day for the expectant mother and really it was washed out.

But then again, I'm probably just behind the times.

[bettyellen]

73. perhaps she is less comfortable being the center of attention? I would be mortified myself!

And I love parties and am not shy. I totally never understood the appeal of huge wedding dresses and all that expense and focus on the bride, didn't like them even though girly dress up and Barbies were my favorite thing. Did not want.
I think before the internet, and more openness they used to be a way for the women to share a lot of advice and support for the mom- to be and neither men nor women wanted men around for that. It is odd that it was one man, but I guess that is their choice.

I've never enjoyed or wanted to attend all female parties, but have several friends that do, and they feel like they can let their hair down more that way and talk about stuff guys aren't interested in. I never considered excluding men for those reasons, LOL, never really worried much if anyone doesn't want to hear what I have to say, it's a party- it should be a mix of interesting people who may or may not have much in common. Some people might bore or bother me too, so I just move on- the more, the merrier.

[HeiressofBickworth]

35. When my daughter was born in 1967

my husband had to have permission of the Board of Directors of the hospital to be with me when I gave birth -- it was THAT unusual at that time for a father to be present. I barely recall the shower my friends gave me, and I'm not sure whether he was there or not.

Of course there is a down-side of this story: my husband was SOOOOO wanting a boy, he wanted to be at the birth. When the baby came out a girl, he had very little interest in her which continued for many years. I recall one time I asked him to watch her while I went to the grocery store. He put her on a blanket on the floor in front of an easy-chair and sat there and watched her until I got home. She, of course, was crying and very unhappy until Mommy got home to pick her up and comfort her.

It pleases me to see that modern men are taking more interest and a more active role in parenting.

[boston bean]

37. Of course, I agree that it is much better to have men more involved.

I'm just wondering if attending a baby shower means that one will be more active in parenting. There isn't a child yet.... so..... As you know from your experience it doesn't always work out that way.

[CK_John]

45. IMO, he is a control freak or a doper looking for items to be pawned.

[marym625]

42. If the father is there

Men should be I'm attendance. And they should be.

[missingthebigdog]

47. I think both parents should be at the baby shower

It gives Dad the chance to participate and prepare for the birth of the child and parenting.

I have thrown several Maternity showers- parties to celebrate being pregnant, where the gifts are pregnancy related (stretch mark cream, books, comfort items, maternity clothes, etc.) I don't think that it would be particularly appropriate for dad to be at those....

[dembotoz]

48. if she ordered me to be there i would be there...never argue with a pregnant wife

[mopinko]

49. i see where you are coming from. there are guys out there who take the dad thing

and turn it into some kind of magic cape.
there are great active dads out there, then there are some who think it makes them some kind of hero. i have a neighbor like that, and to him it is really about control. not love.

i suspect his opening all the gifts would have set off my bs detector.

[enough]

50. Some folks I know had a baby shower today for their daughter, her husband,

and about 150 guests. Nothing fancy, not talking about rich people. But it did make me wonder about what is the point of a baby shower, and why did I feel there was something lacking. I guess we all just like whatever we grew up with and feel familiar with. I always think of a baby shower as a sort of intimate, sweet and funny event among women, where everybody behaves as if it's all the most normal thing in the world while realizing it's the most mysterious. So I guess in that sense I might have to agree my view is sexist, at least by some definitions. Interesting question boston bean, thanks for bringing it up.

[boston bean]

54. Thanks for the comment!

And for understanding....

Self reflection is best in these cases before a final conclusion is drawn.

[LittleBlue]

55. This whole men at baby showers thing is weird

When I first heard about men at baby showers, I could only think "this is really a thing now?" Like we're expected to go to baby showers now? Hell no


I would never go to a baby shower, no matter what. I don't think you're sexist. Women need their girl time, men need their boy time.

[bettyellen]

75. I spent 90% of the time at my sis-in-laws wedding shower with the guys back in the bar.

They were guys I grew up with, and it was awesome to see them all. My sis in law got mad, my brother had to make excuses for me, and I barely made it back in time to sit next to her and "help her open the gifts" - another big job I was assigned without asking. I had already worked on the fancy chair and table decorations. And of course I made her the stupid hat covered with bows. Hated all of it except hanging with my dudes.

[NaturalHigh]

56. I don't see the big deal.

If your niece's husband was there, I think it's pretty obvious that she wanted him there. That's the important thing here.

[boston bean]

57. There is that too, I think...

So, what business of it is mine on a personal family relationship, none.

But DU is not my personal family and I thought my feelings on this topic were somewhat interesting and worthy of some discussion.

You may disagree, and that is ok.

[Ilsa]

58. Hubby was there for mine, but so were his male coworkers. nt

[boston bean]

59. So, it was more like a jack n jill wedding shower? nt

[mercuryblues]

60. I think

it is more common now that the Daddy's attend and co-ed type baby showers. More power to them, I say. I once tried to get my husband to go to one of my own baby showers in my place. What surprises me is that many women have multiple showers now, with themes. Just for Mommy, just for baby and a diaper shower-just diapers and wipes.

I do think it may be internalized sexism. It is an out of the norm experience. You had an ah-ha moment and recognized the association to the stereotypical gender roles. Don't worry though, I am sure some poster a year or so from now will be more than happy to find this post to prove you are guilty of misandry, or something. Ignoring that you noticed it, discussed it, thought about it, came out with and accepting of different views. Instead of doubling down on why men don't belong at baby showers.

[Sheldon Cooper]

61. Heh, I bet I can name at least one of the DUers who will do exactly that.

[madamesilverspurs]

62. Well, twenty-something years ago

we threw a baby shower for the couple, inviting anyone who wanted to come. Good thing we had a large apartment because we had a good size crowd, about a third were men. One of the games we devised -- on a piece of poster board, a sketch of a man standing there with his hands up (as though holding something); another sketch of a snoozing baby was photocopied and cut out, with a tab for a thumb tack. Players were blindfolded and spun around, then instructed to "pin the baby on the daddy". The winner got a pack of Pampers. We really did have a grand time!

[Sissyk]

63. Cute story for you.

A couple of years ago I went to a baby shower that I assumed was a traditional baby shower. It was a friends daughter, her female friends, female family, etc.

Her husband comes in about half way through, says his "hi" all the way around the room, grabs a chair from the kitchen, sits by his pregnant wife and starts helping her open the baby's gifts. It took us all back for a minute, but the shower went on. Mom and dad both really seemed to enjoy it and appreciated ( ooos and ahhs) the gifts and efforts of her friends.

I found out later that she had told him to come help her with the gifts. Only she meant for him to come AFTER the shower and help her LOAD and take home the gifts.

Hopefully, their communication is better now than then. hehe.

Seriously, I've also been to two where the husband and father-to-be was actually invited and all had a good time. I've been to a couple where it was co-ed.

Traditions do change sometimes. Hopefully for the better.

[A Little Weird]

64. I think baby showers can be really different in their purpose

Most baby showers I've attended have mainly focused on giving gifts for the new baby. Usually these are big gatherings with friends, family, coworkers, etc. Many that I've been to had males in attendance (usually not many, sometimes only the dad).

I've been to other showers where it seems that the real focus is on sharing birth stories and advise for new moms. These are usually smaller gatherings with family and very close friends. As a woman who has not experienced pregnancy or childbirth, I can say that I heard more than I ever wanted to know about mucous plugs, breastfeeding woes, and episiotomies at these gatherings. I don't think most men (at least the ones I know) would have been very comfortable listening to some of those details, especially guys who are about to become dads for the first time. I also don't think some of the women would have felt as free to share some of those stories.

But with the internet, I think there are more resources for women to find out some of those less-than-glamorous aspects of childbearing that were once primarily shared at these kinds of gatherings. So on the whole, I think it's great that men are becoming more involved and I hope that continues.

[bigwillq]

66. Loss of tradition? Seems like they're making their own traditions.

I don't see anything wrong with anything that seems to have taken place at this baby shower.
It's their baby shower, they can do whatever they want at it.
And you can do the same at yours. I have nothing against a "traditional" shower. If that's what one chooses to do, I am cool with it.
But I am also cool with the father being the only male there and him opening the gifts.

[PasadenaTrudy]

68. As a woman that's the last place I'd be! n/t

[leftyladyfrommo]

71. Me, too.

But I have to admit that I like looking at all the little stuff.

[Bettie]

70. My baby shower included

men and women. My husband wasn't the only man there, there were as many as there were women.

And that was sixteen years ago.

Men are just taking a more active role in parenting than they used to.

[Oktober]

74. Men don't belong at baby showers...

No reason to feel bad about it...

[Ms. Toad]

76. My daughter's baby shower 25 years ago this summer

was attended by at least as many men as women.

It was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a traditional baby shower. My spouse and I are both women, and 90% of the attendees were lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender.

[valerief]

77. If the dad is there, then other male attendees should be there, too. Otherwise, it's

just plain weird.

[tammywammy]

78. I've attended many many baby showers

Only two were the "traditional" women only. I threw a baby shower for a male co-worker once. Even at the women only showers there wasn't discussion about the actual births the other women have experienced or anything. Just more of those stupid games.

I think males attending baby showers is representative of how society has changed regarding father & newborns. It's no longer supposed to be onlh the mother taking care of the child, fathers are expected to be active participants.

[HockeyMom]

79. My SIL and his Dad came last year

Generally, they hung out together and worked on putting together the baby furniture. My husband was still in Florida working. He came up for the birth.

None of the women, whatever their ages, were shocked to see male family members there. Maybe a man all alone might feel uncomfortable, as my SIL did before Grandpa got there, but if more than one man? Why should he?