Spectrum of eating disorders and society (Warning a couple possibly graphic photos)

[nadinbrzezinski]

Yup, this is one



Bulimia. It affects a lot of people, and it is the least obvious externally of these eating disorders. Those who suffer it can reach the "ideal" of what society expects to be healthy weight and looks. It is not healthy and it is an eating disorder.



This is a photo of the perceived self image and the real image of a kid suffering anorexia nervosa. Yes, it is shocking and these kids end at times dying a fairly early death. But lord are they thin, well beyond our standard of beauty, except that many have argued Seventeen and others have used borderline anorexic kids as the ideal that other kids should achieve. Yes there is literature on this.



This is the other extreme. Obesity. It is an eating disorder... one that is hard to overcome since a lot of the issues, like the other two, are emotional and psychological.

Here is the difference, and why I am bothering to post this... and yes I was morbidly obese... so to a point this comes from personal experience. The kid who is bulimic LOOKS normal... unless you want to check the teeth... the kid who is anorexic, especially not that advanced as the picture, ok they are a little thin. But the obese are called fattie and a few other terms of endearment. They are also told regularly "if you had self control." Which is bullshit.

So let me tell you what a Fat person should do with those comments. "FUCK YOU and mind your own business". But at the same time we as a society need to acknowledge that part of our obesity epidemic comes from food policy. Yup, what we chose to subsidize and make WIC eligible has a bit to do with it. Don't believe me? Go down to the supermarket, I have, and check on what is eligible for WIC. What is eligible for Food stamps, same deal. What we subsidize, and food deserts.

People want to feel full. It's just natural... and yes there are foods and better foods.

But people one reason why obese people really get frustrated is because we as a society are judgmental of them in ways that truly we never use with either bulimic or anorexic individuals. And now we are starting to do things like discriminate for jobs. And I get it, this gentleman cannot in any way, shape or form be a firefighter. Take my word done the job. But there are many other jobs he can, and he will face job discrimination because of how he looks.

Here is another little factoid here. Fun fact. the gentleman in that photo will never in his life become thin and svelte and maintain it. He would do well to lose and maintain some... but it is rare the person who can go from real morbidly obese to what society thinks is beautiful. Some do...

But you see, those three disorders are truly fraught with psychological issues too... and are in the spectrum of eating disorders. So time to start talking of them the way we should and leave our puritanical bullshit to the side.

As to excuses... yup, I've heard them all from all three types of people. I used to have mine to. It wasn't a moment of epiphany... nope, it was more finding what I could do about it and what would work for me. And yes, a healthy dose of FU to the society at large. So I will never meet your true ideal of beauty... so what?

[patrice]

1. I know someone who is going through this. It all seems evidence that something profoundly

necessary and essence -tial is missing from how we live. Time to re-read Kafka's The Hunger Artist.

Thanks for posting, nadinbrzezinnski!

[abelenkpe]

2. Employers dont discriminate

against obese people because of the way they look. They discriminate because they worry about health care costs. They worry about health costs because health care is attached to employment instead of being a single payer universal health care available to everyone.

Same thing with ageism.

And for the record, curves are way more attractive than straight lines.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. but also on how they look

especially at the FRONT OFFICE.

And because of increased costs in things like office chairs.

For the record a bulimic employee, there is no way to know, unless it says such in a medical chart.

[abelenkpe]

7. My best friend in high school and college was bulimic

She was always obsessed with fitting into her mother's size four jeans. She grew up with a perfectionist in a home littered with fashion magazines. She would literally survive on condiments for days then make a big show of eating something like pizza only to relieve herself of it later. She disappeared from college in her second year to get help. It was so sad because she was so very beautiful. She just suffered from this insanely low self esteem brought on from never feeling like she lived up to her parents expectations. I always wonder what happened to her. Hope she's OK now.

People are judgmental. Especially about food. Even when not dealing with an eating disorder. I had to request a different seating arrangement a few years ago because my cubie was always commenting on my lunch. He could not go one day without telling me how what I brought was too fatty, too creamy, or just somehow offensive to him. (I always bring yogurt and fruit for lunch) So I moved and now I'm sitting with a woman who also constantly comments on what others are eating. She's very health conscious and a vegan. I made a batch of cookies for a bakesale at work once with coconut oil and she lectured me forever about how fatty coconut oil is and how I'm an awful mother for using that in any food I'd make for my kids or to sell at a fundraiser.

My son is super skinny. He really only wants to eat black beans, rice and fruit. Sometimes a little chicken and waffles. He hates pizza, bread, candy, cake. So each week we have what we call Food Adventure Day where we try something new we've never had before. He's good about it, but he still just eats a few things. My cubie has waxed on forever about how I should force him to eat. I can't see that that would be sensible.

So I guess, after a bit of thought, you are completely correct that people are crazy judgmental about food. It must be a hundred times worse for those with eating disorders. I think this is why so many on the right worry about a single payer system thinking that other's will suddenly take more issue with what they eat not realizing that other's (businesses, insurance companies, schools, neighbors) already do. And really it is none of their business.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. You were close to her

and I am sorry about your friend.

But if I am HR... and I have a candidate for job A show up who is bulimic (And you hit to a few reasons for it), there is no way I can know... unless I order a dental exam. (Which is a screaming way to know, or the teeth are that badly gone)

The other effects impossible to tell without an extensive medical exam.

As to food, we as a society have gone absolutely nuts over it.

[rox63]

5. They discriminate on both

I have personally been subject to this sort of discrimination.

[Marrah_G]

4. Our society's constant equating of beauty and worth is so harmful

[zappaman]

6. "...be a firefighter. Take my word done the job."

So you were a firefighter AND a cop?
Cool!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=521507

[Rex]

9. As long as we are consumers and not citizens

this will be swept under the rug. We need to get back to be considered as citizens.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Eating disorders have zero to do with being a citizen

by the way.

How we develop a few issues with policy is another matter.

But I raised the issue since we need to change, as a society, how we look at some of this crap.

[Rex]

58. That was not my point.

nt.

[a la izquierda]

11. I have had an eating disorder most of my life.

It never really goes away.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Nope, but we need to learn as a society to treat it as what they are

this is not about will power... no siree, or any other crappy puritanical phrase you want to throw.

[seabeyond]

14. moderation, moderation, moderation

that is the lifesaver.

[zappaman]

15. Very true

And many times it IS about willpower, no matter what the self-proclaimed experts say.
I lost 20 pounds by exercising more and not eating as much.
Weird how that works...

[seabeyond]

25. in the universal law area, i really do not believe it is so much about willpower. i have found

not in obesity but other issues, that the willpower is pretty damn easy. go without eating a thing for 7 days. it is not about the willpower, but control and power over self. for other reasons.

from what i have learned, seen and experience, when depriving self, self works that much harder to get.

letting go of the battle, no more fighting, hugging the fat child that you are, not trying to get rid of him/her, loving that part of self, allowing along for the ride but not have control.... all those are factors to letting go of the struggle

it is not a simple thing for a lot of people for many different reasons when weight is being used to shield, protect, comfort.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. No, not really... read the OP

serious.

This has nothing to do with moderation and this is part of the problem. Or willpower, or any of that crap... I am being serious as a heart attack. If all there was to that, you'd not have a need to deal with the PSYCHOLOGICAL components that come with the spectrum.

And this is what our mostly puritanical society likes to mostly ignore.

[seabeyond]

23. i will have to disagree with you. and could argue that it is NOT that simple because of all

the PSYCHOLOGICAL components that are involved. having played the game for myself, learned to understand the reasons i participated adn what it took to walk away from it.... yes. but to get to the moderation, moderation, moderation part of it, there are a lot of steps.

my post was to a poster that said, it really is a lifetime. i am assuming she got to the point of owning where she was, and having taken steps, and now living it with a lifetime. she has probably already addressed the issues and found a place to stand and be grounded. the moderation, moderation, moderation is a chant to help along.

no more or less.

YES, i know what it is about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. I wish you were correct

I really do...

I hope our society finally, one day, evolves. We really need to.

[seabeyond]

26. I hope our society finally, one day, evolves. We really need to.

mmm, i had hope about 80's, maybe even early 90's. not so much now. i see a couple steps backwards.

[a la izquierda]

37. I have learned how to not let it control me.

But it does creep up from time to time. However, I do occasionally become manic about exercise, letting me know that I'm never really free.

[seabeyond]

40. true.

it has been a couple decades for me, but i still "use" it. i sit at a weight and am fine, healthy. soemthing comes up i will drop 10-15 lbs in minutes, lol. ok a week or two. then go back to regular wieght. i still play the game, too

[Skidmore]

13. What prompted this thread today?

Just curious.

[Iris]

16. the eating disorder associated with obesity is binge eating disorder

different from bulimia because there is not purging involved, hence the obesity.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. That is one form it can and does take indeed.

and why some obese people become bulimic.

[Drunken Irishman]

63. BED is also associated with anorexia.

Many anorexics suffer from it because they restrict so much that it ultimately leads to these insane binges.

In all reality, almost every eating disorder overlaps somewhat. Anorexics can suffer from binge eating disorder, which is tied to bulimia also, just with the added purge, and, as you said, obese people suffer from it too.

[hedgehog]

17. I have yet to see a scientifically controlled study

in which people lost weight and kept it off with the exception of gastric by-pass surgery. The problems with the surgery are that no one seems to know exactly what's going on (blood sugar comes into control before the patient loses and ounce!), there can be lifelong problems with mal-absorption of needed nutrients and some people actually manage to start re-gaining the weight!

We keep reading about the cost of obesity, but if it really is a national crisis (and I think it is), why aren't we studying the hell out of it!?!? Are too many people (Jenny Craig, for example) making money on obesity? There does seem to be agreement that unprocessed foods are best (although I can't point to actual evidence); maybe no one wants to study obesity and find out that a lot of it is due to a massive processed foods industry.

One sign of a medical issue which the medical establishment can't handle is a plethora of quack remedies and patient blogs on the internet. Compare the number of quack remedies, diets, special foods, etc out there meant to help you lose weight with, say, quack remedies for lupus or thyroid and you'll see what I mean.

A thousand anecdotes and pet theories are as worthless as a single anecdote; we need scientific studies!

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. There are, and I even posted one yesterday

success is about 20%, not as long as it could or should be... my pet theory is because we are only dealing with the calories aspect and not the psychological issues that go with it.

On the other hand, we have zero problems comprehending that a bulimic or anorexic patient has all these issues on top of just a scale.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. I am a bulimic

I was a practicing bulimic from the age of 12 and 1/2 when a ballet instructor made me where the Class Porker T-Shirt when he weighed us in weekly. Two days later I would get my first period.


It was not until I was 25 that I went into a hospital for treatment.

I say I AM a bulimic - not was - because I struggle every single day to to not allow body dysmorphia or internal expectations to overcome my mind.

In your OP - you stated -

As to excuses... yup, I've heard them all from all three types of people. I used to have mine to. It wasn't a moment of epiphany... nope, it was more finding what I could do about it and what would work for me. And yes, a healthy dose of FU to the society at large. So I will never meet your true ideal of beauty... so what?

Have you ever been in group with anamias, anas, and mias? Do you know how entrenched and how fucked up chemically the brain of one of those men or women in his? Did you know that bulimics - including myself literally get a physical rush when throwing up. I can also give myself the rush if I'm on a glider/treadmill/cross trainer for 2-3 hours - It's better than X.

Now - I would say I'm rare in that I didn't experience sexual abuse as a child - at my second treatment facility - the Mias were treated and kept separately. Of the 13 in my group - only two of us were not sexually abused. 3 were men and ten were women.

See - I don't disagree - I do believe that Obesity (severe) that has had a physical reason ruled out is the result of trauma.

My trauma as a Mia who was PREDISPOSED to perfection (lets talk about me crying because I got 4 stars instead of 5 on a math test in Kindergarten - sobbing uncontrollably) - was someone hitting a 12.5 year old girl at a cusp time of a ton of change.

But I guess I'm trying to understand the statement about 'making excuses' and finding what works for you.

See - that image of the rail thin girl seeing herself in the mirror? I still have the roll of my life size self portrait from when I was 25. I really drew myself on the lines of Queen Latifah but at the time - at 5 feet 5 inches I weighed 105 pounds.

A mia, anamia, ana - they truly - WE TRULY need to have our brain chemistry changed. We get high not on cocaine, liquor, pot, meth, etc. etc. We get high from controlling THE SUBSTANCE that you actually need to live. And from what I know from my O.A. meetings on and off over the years - so do Binge Eaters that do not purge or excercise purge.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Yes, I am familiar with the chemical dysfunction

Which goes into why society should just stop being so damn puritanical.

I am sorry for your struggle. When I say I have heard the excuses it has nothing to do with you, sorry for the lack of clarity... but with many of the excuses we as a society like to use.

For example, I am sure you have heard it... "dear you need to eat... you can eat... why don't you eat?"

Or in your case. "Stop throwing up already!"

In the case of an obese person... "If you had some self control... "

Why I made reference to all the psychological issues that go with it. The social judgement only increases the pain.

Oh and this is not covered usually, but obese people also suffer a form of dysmorphia.

[JustAnotherGen]

61. Thanks so much for clearing it up!

And ITA - from being a sponsor for others in O.A. - Yes - many severely obese folks suffer that same 'brain wave disruption' that leads to dysmorphia.

[Brickbat]

27. This is so full of half-truths and inaccuracies that it borders on the irresponsible.

By "half-truths" I don't mean lies. I mean you are attempting to address such an enormous issue that very little of what you say is useful.

[zappaman]

28. I agree

Suffice it to say, I am not shocked yup.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. You know, you should just put me on ignore

and I am going to put you on ignore. Mostly, this is a borderline personal attack. And mostly, no jury will see it. So you found your easy way to ignore. Have a great and wonderful, long live.

BYE.

[Neoma]

29. Eating isn't the only thing that causes Obesity.

[zappaman]

30. wow

[Neoma]

31. I'm quite serious.

There are medications, and diseases/medical problems that cause obesity. To say that eating is the only cause, just isn't true.

[zappaman]

33. I know you are and I agree

The facepalm was not directed at you.

[Neoma]

38. I hate the argument itself though.

It's like how I tried explaining to people that I'm not anorexic. It turned out I had severe B-12 deficiency. Wondrous that one of the symptoms was lack of appetite.

[polly7]

46. You're right Neoma.

Anything that messes with hormonal regulation can lead to obesity. Hypothyroidism, Cushing's syndrome........ and yes, many different drugs including steroid hormones, some antidepressants, bp meds, seizure meds .. to name a few.

[Neoma]

48. Damn, I'm so lucky.

I take two of the type of pills you mentioned!

[polly7]

49. Awww .... I'm sorry you have to take them, but I hope they're working for you. n/t

[Neoma]

52. They are.

Thinking of becoming a vegetarian.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Actually no... there are vey rare cases

where disorders, very much at the genetic level, and so rare that it is not even funny, where food intake has little to none to do with it. They are so rare though that most of the people who have them actually do not survive to adulthood. The exception to this not surviving to adulthood, and a tad more common, is Down Syndrome.

(Snark removal)

My apologies to Neoma

[Neoma]

41. Or you could have your lymph nodes fucked up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Yes, there are very valid medical reasons

why people gain weight and can't lose

Side effects of meds.

Thyroid disorders.

Insulin resistance...

The list is long, and why those who go, but, but... and my apologies, did not realize, "my brain hurts now" was your sig.

[Neoma]

44. I guess I read what you said too fast.

Didn't notice you were making the same point I was.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Yeah, I just removed the snark.

[zappaman]

43. "But I am sure you probably did not know that."

That's bullying.

[Neoma]

45. I'm used to it.

...yeah.

[L0oniX]

32. Get over it ...fat girls are cool.

[Codeine]

34. Firefighter. Cop. Nuclear expert.

The whole package.

[pintobean]

51. Just finished jury duty on this one.

[pintobean]

53. 1-5 to LEAVE IT

At Thu May 3, 2012, 07:45 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Firefighter. Cop. Nuclear expert.

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

This is a personal attack and bullying behavior. Has nothing to do with the OP but tries to call up the OP's past posts.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu May 3, 2012, 07:57 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Harmless joke.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Codeine--what was the point of your post if not to hijack the thread?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It looks like a compliment. I guess the alerter knows nadin isn't an expert at these things.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Codeine]

54. I want to marry juror #6 and have his or her babies. nt

[zappaman]

36. Not cool.

You left out gallant EMT and war hero.

[LetTimmySmoke]

50. My first thought when I saw this image was:

"Wow, she looks hot and beautiful from the front. But she looks sick and dying and bony from the back."

[Canuckistanian]

55. I came close to being obese

Hell, I should admit it, I WAS obese at 290 Lb.

But I've lost 60 Lb. so far since last summer and just had a doctor's appointment today. I'm as healthy as a horse now , with my cholesterol, glucose and blood pressure WAY down since my last checkup. And I'm not done losing weight. I have another 10 Lbs to lose for my interim goal.

I know about obesity and overeating, it just becomes a way of life FAR too easily. It's hard choosing good, low calorie food on a budget. And it's so easy to blow your daily calorie limit on a 95c burger and fries.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. And when you innevitably plateau

have patience. Trust me on that one. Three years, and started losing a tad again.

As me and doc joked, even if it takes another five years to lose the other 20 pounds, all is good in the hood.

[Canuckistanian]

57. I DID plateau

For about two months after Xmas. All the exercise in the world couldn't budge that number.

But now I'm losing again. And you're right - patience and NOT freaking out is the key.

[sarisataka]

59. My wife has been diagnosed

with COE (Compulsive Overeating disorder), binge eating and has a thyroid problem. Add to that sleep apnea, which inhibits the body's ability to shed weight.

The combination of psychological and physical issues meant it was literally impossible for her to control her weight in any healthy fashion. Of course there is always the radical diets and snake oil but none of that is healthy or successful.

It took a long time to find a program that treats obesity eating disorders and then a massive battle with insurance to cover the treatment. The insurance companies would rather you just go to a gym and tell them how much weight you loose each week, rather than actually fix the problem.

It has taken three years and she has developed diabetes due to the delays but she is finally moving through a program that recognizes the physical and psychological issues of obesity and treats them both. After several false starts it looks like she has reached the peak and is starting recovery.


And to address the issue, there is discrimination against obese people based on appearance. She saw several job opportunities, that she was extremely qualified for by education and experience, go by to thinner people who lacked the background she has. Finnaly she was given an offer but not where she was in the public eye, but buried back out of sight.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Congrats on finding a program

And good luck with it. As you said, insurance companies don't get it.

And even if off the public eye, good luck to your wife with the job.

Hugs...it is all but easy. And you take sometime for yourself too.

[varelse]

62. The image of the anorexic makes me want to cry

But I love your post.