To anyone reading this who is anti-gay - stop blaming the bible for your homophobic hate

[LynneSin]

I'm sorry, but I've studied the bible pretty intensely in my youth and I've yet to find ANYWHERE in the bible that says homosexuality is a sin. It is NOT in there - God never said it and Jesus definately never said it. Only thing even REMOTELY justifying your cause are some old testament laws that could sorta be plugged into your cause but in reality isn't even close. Anyhow wasn't the purpose of Jesus was to revamp those antiquated laws with more modern ones like 'Love thy neighbor as thyself' and 'Judge not lest ye be judged'?

Once again I've read another hate post by some pastor who wants to hide behind the bible to justify his homophobia. Buddy, here's the news for you - God never said that, it's not in the bible. It isn't God telling you to hate gay people but your fear of something you just don't understand. And trust me I know about that fear because I use to have that fear myself. Growing up in a region where schoolmates and other people tell you 'it's ok to hate <<fill in the blanks>> because they aren't like us' I went to school filled with people like that but slowly yet surely I learned that maybe I need to THINK FOR MYSELF and stop assuming what people tell me is the truth.

As for those few old testament laws that you THINK might related to homosexuality you are forgetting why Jesus was sent to earth. Trust me, I hope you remember next time you're at Red Lobster dining on that shrimp, crab & lobster you love so much- I hope you gag on your meal when you recognize the irony of me commenting on that.

<<<end rant>>>

[snooper2]

1. Jesus was a carpenter who told good stories

A bunch of old men who thought you could fall off the edge of the Earth wrote a bunch more stories about this supposed person and put down what they thought societies laws would be. Of course, religion is the easiest way to control the masses.

What SHOULD happen is instead of having fits about one interpretation or another interpretation of this mythology, we should just all join forces on it. If somebody brings up their religion/god/bible whatever, just call it out for the fiction it is. Then state we don't govern our society based on fictional books. If we did, we should just all start building houses that look like mushrooms and paint ourselves blue

[LynneSin]

2. What you consider mythology isn't so to others

Including many many people who post here at DU.

I'm just saying we need to call bullshit on this matter because there is NOTHING in that book that defines what homosexuality is or God/Jesus hatred of it.

[snooper2]

11. That's why we have to educate people...

I admit it will take 100's of years and many generations, but you have to start somewhere...

[LynneSin]

13. I know

I just get so frustrated that, as a Christian, I am a part of a religion that dissects the bible in such a way that they uses it as a tool to put down others. The bible is like a human being. I could remove the heart from the body but then the heart and the body once attached to it no longer work.

[cthulu2016]

3. Wouldn't it make more sense to disregard the Bible?

The Bible does not favor gay relations. It is identified as a sin and an abomination.

You prefer to craft a personal understanding of the Bible where it doesn't say those things... where you can minimize or reinterpret those texts to suit your own feelings.

That is your right, but why do you care what the Bible says either way?

It is a book some folks wrote.

[LynneSin]

5. And where was it identified as a sin?

Just saying

[cthulu2016]

7. ok...

If an unrighteousness that means that one shall not inherit the kingdom of God, and is classed with wrongdoers; fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, and robbers is not a sin then what is it?

[LynneSin]

15. it was never identified, it was like that game of telephone I know I played as a child

you know where there was a long line of kids. One kid would whisper a sentence into the ear of the kid next to them. And then the kid next to them whisper the same message into the next kid and so on and so forth. By the time you got to the last kid in the line somehow 'My cat likes to play with string' ends up being 'Mom's hat is made of hay and rings'

[virtualobserver]

4. It is pretty amazing that the items of greatest significance to the right wingers.....

are either barely mentioned or strongly contradicted by the bible.

I don't think that they are even vaguely familiar with the book.

the average preacher delivers info from the bible in much the same way that Fox delivers news.

[madokie]

9. Thats how I see it too

[SWTORFanatic]

10. DING DING DING we have a winner

[dmallind]

6. what did your intense study say about the etymology and status of arsenokoites?

[LynneSin]

12. It's been awhile but is that the greek word that some scholars claim is about homosexuality

even though technically the word did not exist back then.

I took these classes ages ago back in college (I loved the professor - I got A's in all his classes) and I remember discussing the subject of homosexuality in the bible. From what I remember there was no word in ancient greek that meant homosexuality but instead there were 2-3 words that somehow got reinterpretted version and version of the bible to ultimately be treated that way.

The other understand was what the purpose was of the various books and if we call ourselves Christians then we should be going by the words of Jesus. The Old Testament was defined as the history of how the faith use to be before Jesus, the Gospel was the words of Jesus (or the closest they could actually get to them) and the rest of the new testament was how the faith was spread throughout the land along with a bit of end time prophesies.

So the basic premise to me is this - if we are to believe that homosexuality is an 'abomination' based on centuries and centuries of reinterpretation of an ancient document in greek then pretty much we are all fucked because there are hundreds of other laws in Leviticus (and similiar books) that pretty much would make our life a living hell if we tried to follow all of them. Or you could follow with the Christian basis that Jesus was to redefine the laws and modernize what God was all about which in that case all of those laws are debunked.

[dmallind]

21. except a masculine word that means man-marriage bed ay its roots DOES mean homosexual

Sure there are other words that are correctly translated as effeminate etc that you may be remembering (malakoi IIRC) but this word, which is in the decidely NT Corinthians and Timothy, means homosexual men - ESV, NLV, RSV etc not just KJV. The only one I can find saying otherwise - NIV - for some reason goes with "slave trader" even though the etymology covers neither, every other compound word ending in -koites refers to sexual behavior, and the same language is echoed in the Sybilline Oracles about homosexuals.

[LynneSin]

22. But Paul was not the 'Son of God', just one of the thousands of people

who help to spread Christianity after Jesus. Paul was never phophesized in the old testament nor did he ever meet Jesus. So in reality we should not be elevating Paul to the same level as Jesus or God in regards to creating the laws of the religion.

In reality most hardcore religious right christians are actually better defined as Paulists since they treat his words as equal to God and Jesus. For more progressive folks we recognize him as simply one of many who spread the faith and wrote about his journey's. Everyone in between really just don't have a clue.

[cthulu2016]

27. None of the Bible was written by anyone who ever met Jesus

[LynneSin]

29. I think there is one Gnostic that was pretty darn close to his time

but the book is so radical when it comes to religion that it didn't get picked to be in the big book

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

28. I learned to read by taking turns reading passages from the Bible in our family before bed.

But I didn't take on reading it until I moved into a Christian Commune. I quit reading it and moved out when I got to Paul's letters to the Corinthians. I was also very attracted to one of the guys living there, which I found uncomfortable not feeling able to express. Thank you for your insight on Paul and his writtings.

[nanabugg]

8. Perhaps they confuse the writings of Paul, the apostle (who had his own identity issues)with

the ten commandments or the OT writings that equated homosexuality on the same level as adultery? In fact, it seemed to be an accepted practice according to the stories in Genesis and later in the old testament. Remember "take-my-daughters-instead" Lot?

[Zen Democrat]

14. Yeah, Lot. The only righteous man in town! HA!

[LynneSin]

17. To be fair - the daughters jumped him

He tried to be a gentleman

[closeupready]

16. K&R

XXXOOO, to you LynneSin!!

[gratuitous]

18. Yep, I get to spend a week with these folks this summer

I'm REALLY looking forward to it.

[Rex]

19. Yes but see this is where you are

different from the majority of people that profess to be Christians. The great amount have never read or will never read the Bible cover to cover. It is just snippets of information you learn every Sunday imo. Well that was at least what I got out of it being raised Southern Baptist.

Basically it was just, 'commit a sin, go to hell and roast'. losta fun those days. NOT.


You've actually read it in the context it was written, not for easy one-liners to express a point.

Big big difference imo.

[LynneSin]

20. To be fair, most Christians are more like me

Unfortunately the more vocal Christians seem to be the ones that profess hatred

[cpwm17]

23. People create their gods in their own image

Last edited Thu May 3, 2012, 10:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Including the men that wrote the bible.

There's a lot of nasty and some good stuff in the bible. There's a lot of material to fashion one's god, and much potential to create a god to give oneself permission to do a lot of nasty stuff.

If there were an actual god to write the Bible, the god would have done a far better job. The Bible would be a clear and fascinating read, along with being extremely educational. The Bible is none of that. The Bible reflects the education and prejudices of the ancient men who wrote it.

[redqueen]

24. The bible has also been used as an excuse

for racism, slavery, child abuse, the patriarchy...

[MisterP]

25. yeah, pick up a Talmud or two, ya fundies!

[LynneSin]

26. I find an irony that Christians are so worried that Sharia Law will take over the country...

and yet are clueless that much of the Sharia Law is based on those old testament books that have those really crazy laws.

[backscatter712]

30. Those using the Bible to bash homosexuality need to read the story of David and Jonathan...

They were... very friendly with each other!

1 Samuel 18:1-3:Now it came about when he had finished speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as himself. And Saul took him that day and did not let him return to his father's house. Then Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself.

1 Samuel 20:16-17: So Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David, saying, "May the LORD require it at the hands of David's enemies." And Jonathan made David vow again because of his love for him, because he loved him as he loved his own life.

2 Samuel 1:25-26 “How have the mighty fallen in the midst of the battle! Jonathan is slain on your high places. I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; You have been very pleasant to me. Your love to me was more wonderful than the love of women.”

But the mainstream theologians claim the relationship between these two was purely platonic. Sure it was...