A Wake-Up Call for US Liberals

[babylonsister]

http://www.thenation.com/article/201945/wake-call-us-liberals?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow#

A Wake-Up Call for US Liberals

The state of conservative intellectual debate demonstrates the power of movement crazies.
Eric Alterman
March 23, 2015 | This article appeared in the April 6, 2015 edition of The Nation.


snip//

The primary difference between liberalism and conservatism, at least in theory, is that the latter is an ideology and the former isn’t. Conservatism, as Milton Friedman argued, posits that “freedom in economic arrangements is itself a component of freedom broadly understood, so economic freedom is an end in itself.” Liberalism, however, as Lionel Trilling observed, “is a large tendency rather than a concise body of doctrine.” And while John Kenneth Galbraith helpfully pointed out that only those programs and policies that honor “the emancipation of belief” are worthy of the term, liberalism, at bottom, is pragmatism. Conservatives desire low taxes and small government because this is how they define freedom. They like to pretend that liberals prefer the opposite in both cases, but the truth is that liberals are OK with whatever works.

Our political dysfunction has many sources, but one way to describe our problem is this: we have allowed conservatives to define the terms of debate at a time when conservatives have lost all sense of moral, intellectual and especially practical responsibility.

snip//

Conservative “wise man” Bill Kristol has achieved this status by proving himself, time and again, to be the worst predictor in the history of the punditocracy. Kristol recently summed up his political philosophy in a debate about US policy in the Middle East with Laura Ingraham—herself a symbol of the decline of conservative thought—by asking, “What’s the harm of bombing them at least for a few weeks and seeing what happens?” Charles Krauthammer’s analyses evince a similarly reflexive belligerence, while David Brooks, believe it or not, is too liberal to qualify.

Why do such smart guys say such stupid things? The answer lies in the locus of power in today’s conservative movement. The Koch brothers make billions off the exploitation of carbon-producing fossil fuels, while donating more than $67 million to groups that deny the destruction it causes. This is to say nothing of the nearly $900 million they plan to raise for the Republican presidential nominee in 2016. Casino magnate Sheldon Adelson, who handed out $150 million to the Republicans and related groups during the 2012 election cycle, believes the United States should drop an atomic bomb in the Iranian desert and say: “See! The next one is in the middle of Tehran.” Media mogul Rupert Murdoch thinks all the world’s Muslims should be “held responsible” for “their growing jihadist cancer.” His networks and newspapers spread the idiotic calumny that the president is a secret Muslim and an undocumented alien who hates all white people (including, apparently, his own mother).

Today’s conservative intellectuals aren’t even bothering to offer “irritable mental gestures which seek to resemble ideas.” Instead, they’re making calculated attempts to undermine our democracy, exploiting and manipulating a public that has decreasing resources for the kind of reliable information that would lead to a pragmatic “liberal” response. It’s time we woke up to that reality while we still have a country—and a planet—left to save.

[spanone]

1. k&r...

[LiberalElite]

2. K&R

[RKP5637]

3. K&R! n/t

[jaysunb]

4. The MSM would be a good place to start. n/t

[freebrew]

48. +1...

It's the only place to start. Those you 'see' here and other forums are a lot more knowledgeable than the 'average joe'. The bible belt people, here, listen to their preachers and fox 'news'. fox has been discredited so many times and these people still support them because fox doesn't admit it, so they're always right.
There is no such thing as the truth on M$M. Even locally, the news is biased when there is a story that needs mis/direction.
That, somehow needs to change.

[2naSalit]

5. K&R

[rhett o rick]

6. Thanks babylonsister for your continued posting of relevant issues.

Although I might occasionally disagree, I see that (disagreeing) as the backbone of liberal/progressive success. We get smarter when we debate.

My comment here is that it isn't the liberals that have to wake-up. The liberals see the danger of creeping conservatism. It's creeping into the Democratic Party. The general public need to wake up before they are paupers.

[appalachiablue]

8. +1

[babylonsister]

16. You're very welcome!

[Enthusiast]

43. +2

[KG]

7. dems would do well to stop trying to get the conservatives to vote for them, and start trying to get

liberals to vote them instead of just kinda expecting them to vote dem.

[appalachiablue]

9. +1. How can we make this happen is the issue.

[pocoloco]

10. You can't!

There is not a lot that wimps can accomplish!

[appalachiablue]

12. Some truth to this at times...hopefully it will change..

[Chathamization]

18. Politicians usually move towards certain issues when it seems that people will vote on them and it's

advantageous to support it. For instance, we got a lot of support here for campaign finance after local activists made a big push for it. Ditto with the minimum wage. Focusing on a particular issue, building a network, and pushing hard seems to be one way that can work.

It's difficult though; politicians pander to who they think will help them win. So, often handouts to corps and tax cuts to wealthy retirees. Most people don't care enough one way or another (or they'll be persuaded by advertisements), so often politicians get ahead just by focusing on a core group (at least around here). Getting people aware and active is probably the best way to change things, but it's also the hardest.

[appalachiablue]

19. Yep it's so. When you read all the posts with the thread now in Good Reads, *'The New American

Order', esp. the comment/post on *Feudalism AND the new *Steve Wozniak piece in GD now, 'AI is harmful to people and scary', it kinda makes the notion of trying to improve the political system obsolete. Also having a restful night this evening-

[Chathamization]

22. It's not all bad though. We've actually had some success here, and I've seen some in other places as

well (and of course, there are also setbacks). Each battle also presents the chance to learn and connect to fight the next one. And many fights require multiple defeats before victory. For example, we made a push for campaign finance reform in 2012, lost (but got the politicians to start paying attention to it at least), used that organizing to help a progressive candidate in 2013, lost, helped her run again in 2014 and she finally won. Pushed for a minimum wage bill for Walmart, lost, but managed to use the momentum to get a city-wide minimum wage bill passed later.

I hope we'll see move resource sharing and interaction nationwide. It seems like a lot (though not all) of the good stuff happening is still pretty localized. But hopefully we'll see much more of a broad, national progressive network eventually emerge.

[appalachiablue]

30. I don't doubt that people aware of or involved in the resource sharing economy

view things in this light, but for millions who are busy, hardworking, open minded and well meaning, people who don't pour over news outlets like DU, inhabit the internet, or live in the most progressive ecotopia coastal regions, with the greatest wealth and resources, it is a very different picture. I wish it was a matter of 'Ye of little faith'. What is happening now is completely unattached to faith and good works, unlike earlier, even recent times in American history. It is based in fact yet inaccessible and beyond the realm of comprehension to most Americans. Non-elites, financially and educationally, are blind and walking around without a cane. Even if the situation was realized, they could never catch up or attain security now given the lack of financial opportunity and the evisceration of government we are witnessing.

So it is for the unaware and therefore the most vulnerable that I have the most concern. They will be broken and expendable in 1-2 generations. For most it will be after years of struggle, hardship and hope. If a health or legal issue arises, for many who have no financial resources or safety net it will be sooner. Such a hard, brutal and realistic look at our future is a disappointing but honest appraisal. The positive response to my POV is noted and appreciated.

[appalachiablue]

62. While benficial, several major articles posted here lately that have raised the issue of imminent

automation unemployment and climate change are informative but pretty heavy. And the transitions must be faced. There's also interesting discussion now Re effort and time going into redirecting the political system to face these serious challenges and many others, discounting the advanced local and regional economies that are working well. My reply to your well meant post last evening was rude and unusual, my apologies.

Apart from many who are unaware, we're now trying to educate several close ones who will be most impacted by the coming changes and it's been unsuccessful, so far. A parent of two bright, beautiful millennials is highly intelligent, strong and brave, but hard-headed and stubborn as a mule! Can't tell them anything. This adds to frustration and sorry that it carried over in my doom rant. As you pointed out there are many positive actions taking place all around by many committed, creative people. That's very inspiring; and things aren't all that bad. On that note I'll close and wish you a healthy day. (That coastal demographic I referenced, I'm part of it in the east, btw).

[Chathamization]

71. Thanks. I didn't find your other post rude, by the way, I thought of it as a respectful "I have a

different outlook" post. It's also an outlook I respect and don't necessarily disagree with. I've also been frustrated with the degree of apathy and disengagement. You see it a lot on the ground level, with the majority of people paying no attention to local politics (and I have to say, I was this way as well for a long time), and many of those who do doing so for bad reasons (they want to be close to local power players, or want their taxes cut).

It's also frustrating to see the apathy I see amongst people who are theoretically politically engaged. The "netroots" seems to be disinterested in any action other than giving a donation online, for the most part. I've met a ton of people who consider themselves political junkies, yet who can't be bothered to show up for primaries or do a quick web search of the candidates (most people seem to be only interested in the political gossip).

Like I said, I see the potential for a wider national movement, but it's not here yet (how come we aren't all members of the DFA?).

And you're right that there are some major challenges facing us. Though I'm not too worried about automation unemployment (looking at the numbers, it seems to be a misdiagnosis of our problems), secular stagnation and collapsing infrastructure seem to be a pretty big problem. Looking a bit further ahead, the damage to the environment seems to be a major threat (climate change, as well as more general environmental devastation that we don't know the full effects of), as well as things like nuclear war, which doesn't get much attention these days but is still probably one of the greatest threats we face.

So, I definitely share the frustration and concern. But I'm also hopeful - because of some successes I've seen, because even many of the apathetic people I've talked to become interested once I start talking to them, and also because of more general trends I've seen (towards equality, health, mental understanding, crowd funding and open source development) suggest positive societal movements. Or even having a conversation like this, where you see that these are things people are thinking about and trying to find a solution for.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

61. Just more Hillary bashing!

[BumRushDaShow]

11. Touche!

[Doctor_J]

13. Unfortunately our "D" reps also answer to the Kochs, and too many voters have surrendered

their principles - all of them - for "electibility" (which, given the results of the last few elections, is beyond amusing and into the idiotic range). Look at what happens at DU when one suggests that Obama's never-ending wars are as costly and useless as Bush's. Or that the Newt Gingrich/Heritage Foundation health insurance windfall is not healthcare. Despite Alterman's optimism, the fight's over - people who really want to help the country have no representation. We're at war with the Repukes and the DINO's with no way to win.

[RiverLover]

28. Money out of Politics. Support Wolf-Pac and the many drives to overturn Citizens United as a start.

Its the only way to win.

Its the only way to get our country back.

(Hint to those who back Hillary, read Doctor_J's depressing but spot-on post & understand, really download, this is the bottom line reason so many of us object so vehemently to HillaRy as the Democratic nominee...if you were having trouble figuring that out.)

[woo me with science]

33. +100000 Red versus Blue is no longer the most relevant way to think about things.

Corporatism is the real enemy, and it lives in both parties now. Red versus Blue has increasingly become more a tool for keeping us divided rather than offering a real choice on policy. Corporate Democrats offer the same poisonous direction as corporate Republicans and merely try to sweeten the strychnine by offering it as the lesser of two evils.

Red vs. Blue = Oligarchy Theater for the masses.

Mass spying on Americans? Both parties support it.
Handing the internet to corporations? Both parties support it.
Austerity for the masses? Both parties support it.
Cutting social safety nets? Both parties support it.
Corporatists in the cabinet? Both parties support it.
Tolling our interstate highways? Both parties support it.
Corporate education policy? Both parties support it.
Bank bailouts? Both parties support it.
Ignoring the trillions stashed overseas? Both parties support it.
Trans-Pacific Job/Wage Killing Secret Agreement? Both parties support it.
TISA corporate overlord agreement? Both parties support it.
Drilling and fracking? Both parties support it.
Wars on medical marijuana instead of corrupt banks? Both parties support it.
Deregulation of the food industry? Both parties support it.
GMO's? Both parties support it.
Privatization of the TVA? Both parties support it.
Immunity for telecoms? Both parties support it.
"Looking forward" and letting war criminals off the hook? Both parties support it.
Deciding torturers are patriots? Both parties support it.
Militarized police and assaults on protesters? Both parties support it.
Indefinite detention? Both parties support it.
Drone wars and kill lists? Both parties support it.
Targeting of journalists and whistleblowers? Both parties support it.
Private prisons replacing public prisons? Both parties support it.
Unions? Both parties view them with contempt.
Trillion dollar increase in nuclear weapons. Both parties support it.
New war in Iraq. Both parties support it.
New war in Syria. Both parties support it.
Carpet bombing of captive population in Gaza. Both parties support it.
Selling off swaths of the Gulf of Mexico for drilling? Both parties support it.
Drilling along the Atlantic Coast? Both parties support it.

BUT, we are reminded by sneering corporate Democrats, Republicans will do all of this to us, too, PLUS inflict transvaginal ultrasounds!

What a vicious scam by both parties to justify relentless, predatory evil. To demand that we vote for our own sellout and exploitation and the dismantling of our democracy itself.


We must oppose corporatists masquerading as both Republicans *and* Democrats. The corporate agenda is antidemocratic and predatory coming from both Red and Blue politicians.

[appalachiablue]

40. +100. Righteous.

[Enthusiast]

44. Precisely.

I can only say, WTF!

[appalachiablue]

63. When I see figures like Bill Clinton, Tamyron Hall (MSNBC) and MD Rep. Chris van Hollen who I

think is very sharp on the news at those annual economic forums by billionaire Pete Peterson who's been working and spending to cut Social Security for decades it makes me a bit insecure, I has sads.

[Cha]

14. "The state of conservative intellectual debate demonstrates the power of movement crazies." No,

Shiite!



Mahalo for Eric Alterman's so brilliantly pointing this out, babylonsistah!

[cui bono]

41. omg Cha....

Did you have to post that pic? I'm going to bed now and I fear that image of Chuck Toad is going to be in my dreams!!!

Damn you!!!

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. Conservative intellectual is something of an oxymoron.

I defer to John Stuart Mill, here:

I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any hon. Gentleman will question it.

[appalachiablue]

31. Wm. F. Buckley, others, no?

[Spider Jerusalem]

35. Nope!

Buckley was a fraud and conservative "intellectuals" are more interested in defence of the status quo and the politics of reaction than they are in engaging with the world in a way that leads to any kind of learning or progress.

[appalachiablue]

37. OK, good explanation and thanks.

[Zorra]

64. +1 nt

[niyad]

17. k and r and bookmarking

[zeemike]

20. "It’s time we woke up to that reality"

Past time in really...That should have been in 08

[guillaumeb]

21. Exactly the point

Right here is the key:
"Our political dysfunction has many sources, but one way to describe our problem is this: we have allowed conservatives to define the terms of debate at a time when conservatives have lost all sense of moral, intellectual and especially practical responsibility. "

Whenever you can define the terms of the debate you will generally win the debate because your opponent is on the defensive. Or so I was taught in debate class.

The conservatives are aided of course by the corporate media defining what the debate really is, and treating name calling as legitimate debate. The media decides what is covered and how, and always to the benefit of the media owners. Thus the importance of the internet as an alternate source of information.

Excellent post

[appalachiablue]

32. Indeed the way it is.

[appalachiablue]

54. +10. 'The media decides what is covered and how', the ugly truth of it indeed.

[guillaumeb]

55. The GOP may not know how to govern but they understand semiotics

What words one uses, and the connotations of the words one uses, are what the GOP understands. Given that Karl Rove and Grover Norquist were both advertising people, they know how to craft a message.

Think death tax, rather than inheritance tax on extreme high income families.
Calling it the death tax makes it seem as if it affects all families, rather than the top 1/10th of 1 percent.

Think "pro-life".
Pro-life sounds so nice. Who can be anti-life?

Think "right to work".
Again, who can argue with a right to work.

Rebellions that the US backs are fought by freedom fighters. Rebellions that the US does not back are terrorists.

The GOP is great at framing and pathetic at government.

[appalachiablue]

56. Didn't know that about Rove & Grover, a gruesome twosome for sure. Yep they have the

double talk spin coming from the RW stink tanks down pat. 'Wealth creation' (plundered, exploited), 'right to work' aka 'right to starve'. There's a new one, particularly absurd and offensive, 'healthy poverty' but it seems to have quietly died fortunately. When I saw a quote here some months ago from Will Rogers (d. 1935) referring to Mr. Hoover and the 'trickle down' that never reaches the poor, it was a real eye opener. That the policy was successfully revived in the 80s indicates just how powerful the RW propaganda is and how much we forget, in so little time. The GOP clearly doesn't want any govt. to work except the courts for their property protection, the House of Lords Senate and a figurehead President. They hate govt., like Grover and should be banned from public office. Lol.

[guillaumeb]

57. thanks for the Will Rogers reference

[daredtowork]

23. Interestingly they are using propaganda techniques learned from Communism

But they have turned those techniques into a self-help book for personal financial success. They reduce everything to "winning" the next election, the next deal, the next boardroom takeover because that will score them a point in the Game of Life. They won something - that translates into a line item on a resume, a raise, a promotion.

The "ideology of freedom" isn't about freedom per se. It's about the belief certain people can maximize the potential inherent in freedom to prove their natural superiority. To win. Without having any responsibility toward the losers (or who you got away with exploiting). To win by any means possible, before someone does the same to you.

[appalachiablue]

36. Striving for success, competing and then reaping and keeping the rewards at any cost are common

attributes in the corporate world, the military and in sports. These qualities are also fundamental in many but not all societies, obviously. Pure alphas, to use a cliché, tend to have little respect or compassion for those who are less successful or weak as they perceive them. The reason they're on top. Only my observation but one from many years with relatives, coworkers, men, women, minorities, westerners and asians who act in a similar way for their own advantage.

I wish it wasn't the case, and there are many exceptions and individuals and groups who overcome anti-social behaviors thank God. For the most part, it's accepted that humans are an intelligent, but not very decent species sorry to say, recognizing that I may be jaded a bit esp. in these fairly nasty times. To put it another way, in essence they, the winners are brutal, sly, selfish and without conscience, like the little foxes.


'Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes". Lillian Hellman, 'The Little Foxes' and the Song of Solomon, the Bible.

[blkmusclmachine]

24. Why do I see babylonsister's posts? I have her/him/it on full ignore!

[NBachers]

27. Aren't you glad you didn't fully ignore this one?

Sometimes the boundaries of reality develop a fault line at the most fortuitous instant.

[Hekate]

38. Poor you. She posts good stuff. nt

[guillaumeb]

51. one cannot ignore the truth

or something like that. Or perhaps your subconscious removed the ignore.

[Bobbie Jo]

52. And then proceed to post on them, even...

Passive-aggressive, much?

[Mnpaul]

25. This is how you deal with Kristol

KRISTOL: It is a disaster. Donna's right. It's a disaster unfortunately made possible, or certainly made more likely, by our ridiculous and total withdrawal from Iraq in 2011.

President Obama said two days before election day, in 2012, al Qaeda is on the path to defeat, the war in Iraq is over. That was enough to get him re-elected.

But how does it look today? al Qaeda is on the path to death, the war in Iraq is over, neither is true. And it's a disaster for our country.

GUTIERREZ: We shouldn't have been there in the first place. I voted against the incursion in Iraq. We said then -- they said, and Bill knows this, we were going to be welcomed as liberators. We weren't. They said that it was going to be paid for, it wasn't paid for.

The fact is, that we should have never have been there. This is a centuries-old fight between Sunnis and Shia.

And even President Bush didn't -- couldn't even tell you the difference between the two and yet we had a military -- we shouldn't have been there. We shouldn't have sent our American men and women there in the first place.
http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-house-majority-leader-eric-cantor/story?id=24131832&page=6

and throw in a "shut up already" at Laura Ingraham as well.

GUTIERREZ: If I could finish. I know you are used to your radio talk show where you get to talk all the time, let me get a chance -- and it's also ABC.

video link(well worth it for the look on Kristol's face) http://abc.go.com/shows/this-week-with-george-stephanopoulos/listing/2014-06/15-this-week-615-isis-militants-gain-ground-in-iraq

[Thespian2]

26. K & R

[RoccoR5955]

29. They lost it a long time ago.

They lost it when they ran Raygun for President, because John Wayne was dead!
Since then they have been getting crazier and crazier, which is why I plan to leave in a couple of years when I can retire.
I have fought these battles with these poor excuses for human beings for nearly 50 years.
I plan to retire to a place where there is actually a socialist party, about half of the population do not believe in god, the cops do not shoot first and ask questions later, (they find it a problem if they have to shoot at all) and there are few big trucks on the roads, which seem to abound here in the US.
I did my share. I am done!
Some tell me that many people in Germany left soon before that country changed for the worse. I can see that happening here, and don't want to end up in some concentration camp, because I do not have the same ideals as they do.

[appalachiablue]

39. Appreciate the honesty in sharing your intentions. I've been sensing the same trends, but am

tied down for several years. A couple years ago found myself restudying that period in history, didn't realize why till the obvious hit me in the face. Told my sibling whose son was headed to college that he should consider somewhere outside the US, like Canada, or at least Oregon or VT for the future. That in the US it was starting to resemble what people who fled Germany early realized.

But the parents aren't as informed, have to feel the pain before they believe types, one is brave but hard-headed, and frankly out of selfishness they want their child around rather than what's better for his future. The boy also has a fairly serious and chronic medical condition, although he possesses high intellect, drive, even temperament and other attributes.

Heard Canada's PM thinks he's RR, esp. with the current boom oil industry; visited South America when very young but don't know enough about it now. Exploring alternative options for us is definitely a reality. In my brief time at DU there have been a couple others who plan to depart. Not alarmism about concentration camps, we already have them with the vast, exploitive incarceration system that's only going to expand.

[haikugal]

42. Sounds wonderful.

Where?

[RoccoR5955]

45. Look in Europe

There are several countries there where what I stated is the norm.

[haikugal]

46. Oh, OK

I thought you'd found something less expensive. Like I said sounds wonderful for all the reasons you've mentioned but my family and I can't leave. I hope it doesn't all go sideways because like you we would be in danger.

Thanks for your reply.

[RoccoR5955]

65. I live in New York State

Most of Western Europe is about as costly as it is here. The only two differences I saw was beer and gasoline. Good beer is significantly cheaper, and gasoline is significantly more expensive. I figure that in retirement I would be using more beer than gasoline, so this is a bonus for me.

[haikugal]

67. Good thinking there..

I think we'll try sneaking across tha Canadian boarder if it comes to really bad times...if we were able to sell off our farm we might have enough cash to immigrate and start over.

[YOHABLO]

69. Many left Germany, but they had resources to do so. Many stayed because they couldn't understand how

these thugs got into power and that somehow something more politically rational would come along soon and rid the country of them. It didn't happen for another twelve years. If you were a Socialist, Communist, Jew, Homosexual, your days were numbered before they shipped you off to die in a concentration camp. If I had the resources to do so I'd leave but I have parents who are very senior and a sister with a mental disability. How could I leave them behind? I think that many in Germany in the late 30s had the same questions. If the Republicans take over all branches of government, I am sure this country will be in for the ride of it's life.

[RoccoR5955]

70. I am happy that you understand this.

To me it looks like the US is headed in this direction. That is why for the past 15 years, I have been saving my money. I have two more years until I can retire, and I shall retire. With any luck, it will not be in the US.

[closeupready]

34. K&R - tonight, Charlie Rose interviewed ex-New Republic literary editor Leon Wieseltier

It was a fascinating half hour, and I agreed with almost everything he said. It's probably on PBS' website (or youtube) - I'd highly recommend it to anyone who agrees with this OP.

[Duval]

47. K&R nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

49. It is a waste in precious energy, time and spirit to fight insanity. Fighting insanity is insane.

We must begin to build a new system of human organization separate from the current insane power weilders. We must begin to use our wisdom, resources, time and energy creating a new system. Just quietly, non-violently and with intense purpose create a system that will work for us all, including the systems of the earth.

[appalachiablue]

58. I like the idea. Not usually a bailer, but this system is appearing more and more impossible to

reform, particularly in view of looming automation unemployment and climate disaster dystopia, a la 'Soylent Green' and many other depictions. Working towards a more positive, healthy future and rebuilding has happened throughout history obviously, just not on a global scale. It reminds me of having to ditch a lousy job or relationships and moving on to others in order to thrive. Fortunately I haven't had to experience that much but know it's critical to survival.

[Fred Sanders]

50. The Media need a good mocking even more than their willing figureheads in all this insanity.

And Obama needs unwavering support.

Timeout on the criticism until the fascists are gotten ride of?

Truce?

[pasto76]

53. The 'ideology' of conservatism is exclusive. Join us or die

no ideaology with that as a foundation has ever been successful. Your 'liberalism', I guess, includes me as a non liberal democrat as well. Which is inclusive. Which is what makes liberalism slightly more tolerable. Unless you look at posting on DU...you can find plenty of exclusionary rhetoric.

[Hekate]

59. KnRnTY Babs

[geretogo]

60. Precisely !

[TheKentuckian]

66. Wake up and what? It is the "centrists" that don't get it and call the likes of Kristol smart

when the stupid fucker is far closer to a reverse compass.

[hifiguy]

68. K and Effin R!!!

[AndyTiedye]

72. Conservatives Define the Terms of Debate because They OWN the Media

It really is that simple.