If this turns out to be true...holy shit.

[WilliamPitt]

US accuses Israel of spying on Iran nuclear talks

The US has accused Israel of spying on international negotiations over Iran’s nuclear programme and using the intelligence gathered to persuade Congress to undermine the talks, according to a report on Tuesday.

The Wall Street Journal cited senior administration officials as saying the Israeli espionage operation began soon after the US opened up a secret channel of communications with Tehran in 2012, aimed at resolving the decade-long standoff over Iran’s nuclear aspirations.

The apparent decision by the White House to leak the allegations is the latest symptom of the growing gulf between Barack Obama’s administration and Binyamin Netanyahu’s government over the Iran talks, in which the Israeli leader suspects US officials of being ready to make too many concessions at the expense of Israeli security. Intelligence analysts suggested that the leak reflects the degree of anger in Washington at Netanyahu’s actions, and could mark a more serious blow to the already tottering relationship.

The leak has come exactly a week before a deadline for the US-Iranian negotiations in Lausanne to produce a framework agreement.

The rest: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/24/israel-spied-on-us-over-iran-nuclear-talks?CMP=ema_565

[wyldwolf]

1. Grabbing my popcorn and soda for this one.

[leftieNanner]

106. NO NO NO NO

Don't you know that soda is bad for you?? I think a nice single malt would be a better choice. I'll join you on the couch. This could be interesting.

[pennylane100]

109. I will bring the Stoli, and some chip and dip.

[leftieNanner]

126. Excellent!

Wouldn't a DU cocktail party be fun?

[markpkessinger]

171. Laphroaig or Lagavullin for me! n/t

[hifiguy]

185. Laphroaig, aye, that's the stuff, lad!

The sort of whisky that tastes you back.

[markpkessinger]

189. Like drinking a glass of peat!

[leftieNanner]

205. I'm more of a MacAllan 18, Highland Park, or Balvenie girl myself

[markpkessinger]

229. Won't say no to any of those!

There's another lighter single-malt variety that I have had only once, and absolutely loved, called Oban -- but I can rarely find it!

[unionthug777]

175. IPA's

perhaps some double IPA's......and cheese popcorn !!!

[Initech]

196. How about a couple of bottles of Glengoole?

[yuiyoshida]

124. Yes on the popcorn!

[lewebley3]

198. We need to call grand jury to see if crimes have been committed.

The GOP have been very busy working against America,
we need to see their emails.

[Cosmocat]

215. Please ...

All due respect, but have you been around for the last quarter century?

This is going nowhere ...

[Matt_in_STL]

2. There could be a case for treason here

If the members of Congress knew they were being given US classified information by a foreign entity, they are under an obligation to immediately report it to the proper authorities. A failure to report it on their part should be considered treasonous. The letter they wrote left some gray area but, on this issue, there should be no question.

[Fearless]

67. Doubtful because of the relevations of this article

Being dumb isn't grounds for treason, it had to be intentional. The Republican party paints itself as dumb very easily.

[Aerows]

141. If it was due to incompetence

that's called malfeasance of office and is grounds to be removed.

[Fearless]

148. Agreed.

[Aerows]

224. Someone from the Republican party

should at the very least be forced to resign over this.

[Fearless]

225. All of them IMHO

[Aerows]

228. Every single 47 of them. n/t

[malaise]

213. +1,000 n/t

[cynzke]

211. Being Dumb?

Considering the educational background these Senators claim to have, I doubt they are that dumb. It must have crossed their minds that this was not KOSHER! They thought they could get away with it.

[George II]

78. Maybe Boner can discuss it during his upcoming visit with Bibi over there?

[yellowcanine]

92. I am sure Bonerman will have stern words with Bibi about this!

"You promised me no one would find out how you got that information Bibi!"

[PatrynXX]

136. if the 47 were connected though

it would make an even bigger case for treason and if they are let go they will take control

[former9thward]

169. Maybe you look up the definition of treason.

Hint: It is in the Constitution.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

183. We need a recording

[rhett o rick]

173. No one is going to get charged with treason. Hell war criminals are welcomed with open arms and

on TV talk shows.

[YarnAddict]

3. Does anyone know

if there are any Congress people involved in these negotiations? Should there be?

[Fred Sanders]

18. No, and no, and thank the Lord.

[YarnAddict]

46. Think you'll feel the same way

when we have a Republican president? Maybe (shudder) President Cruz?

[Fred Sanders]

47. I do not think that way, you can have the glass half empty if you like.

[YarnAddict]

48. What way??

I meant will you think it's a good thing to exclude our elected representatives when we have a flipping nutjob Republican as President?

[Demit]

81. Diplomacy & negotiating treaties w/foreign govts is reserved to the Executive Branch.

[Hekate]

83. It has to do with the Constitutional division of powers, that's all

[brush]

96. These talks are aimed at an "executive agreement" not a treaty that Congress must approve

Executive agreements facilitating commerce, trade and other operating theaters are common between nations and have been negotiated by our executive branches routinely over the years — both Democratic and Republican.

This one is not just between the US and Iran as there are also 5 other nations involved. Just imagine how difficult it would be to reach an agreement if the legislative bodies of all these nations were demanding approval, especially with nut job rookies like Cotton doing the clamoring.

Constitutionally this has always been executive branch purview speaking in one voice for the nation and not the place for multiple voices, especially 2-month experienced rookie voices with agendas clearly driven by a meddling prime minister of a foreign nation.

Again, it's not a treaty requiring Congressional approval.

[TheKentuckian]

163. Consistently I believe.

[whathehell]

60. Um, I hate to mention this but,

since you appear to be a citizen of the UK rather than the US,

why should your thinking on our country be a matter of primary importance to us?

Just sayin...

P.S. I see you just recently edited that information out of your profile.

[sunnystarr]

177. nice catch .... (nt)

[whathehell]

193. Thanks.

[sabrina 1]

86. Since these talks are INTERNATIONAL involving five other major powers, all on the same page

apparently regarding NOT starting any wars with Iran, should Cruz become President, as has already been pointed out by the Iranian FM, too bad Americans don't know the law as well he did, he will have little power to do much without the cooperation of France, the UK, Germany, Russia and China. And that is so unlikely as to not be worth considering.

So you can put your fears on that score to rest. THIS does NOT involve the individual allied nations' own countries' laws.

[HERVEPA]

101. No there should not.

Maybe do the slightest bit of research before posting about who negotiates treaties.

[marble falls]

4. Israel spying on the US? I am shocked. shocked! Its never ever happened before!

(insert sarcasm icon here.)

[spanone]

5. and conspiring with congress to derail the presidents policies...i am shocked.

[hootinholler]

12. Just wait until AIPAC finds out about this!

They will be soooo ashamed!

[leveymg]

115. Remember Doug Feith, Wurmser, & Franklin down at the Pentagon Office of Special Plans?

Fun crew, as were their co-conspirators at AIPAC, Rosen and Weissman, and the head of the Mossad in Washington, Naior Gilon (who went on to be Netanyahu's intel advisor) who put them all together. That was the stovepipe and cherry-picking disinformation operation in Rumsfeld's office that, among other things, salted DIA files with false intel about Iran's nuclear program.

Read all about it from 2010: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/540

[hootinholler]

131. And before that there was poker nights with Cunningham

Limos, poker and hookers, what fun!

Funny how those investigations sort of dried up.

[cascadiance]

214. Yep, remember when Franklin got arrested, noticing what appeared to be orchestrated coverups then...

Note this post I posted around the beginning of 2006 almost 10 years ago noticing some weird pattern of google alert emails then.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x39220

I'm betting there's a lot more spying activity by Israel on the U.S. that we've never been told about.

[leveymg]

218. Yes, I've noticed similar pattern where google searches turn up NYT articles months after they

appear in the print edition. Could be I overlooked it the first time, and the second and tenth times, but . . .

Here's one from 2012 that I only recently found on Google. I think is rather important that states the US facilitated Qatar in its arming of militias of their choosing in Libya and Syria, and we allowed arms shipments in both directions across the Mediterranean. That decision was described in a much overlooked NYT article. I still see people denying there was any major media reports that specifically identifies the US as facilitating the flow of arms to al-Qaeda groups in Libya and Syria, via Qatar:

U.S.-Approved Arms for Libya Rebels Fell Into Jihadis’ Hands
By JAMES RISEN, MARK MAZZETTI and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT DEC. 5, 2012
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/world/africa/weapons-sent-to-libyan-rebels-with-us-approval-fell-into-islamist-hands.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration secretly gave its blessing to arms shipments to Libyan rebels from Qatar last year, but American officials later grew alarmed as evidence grew that Qatar was turning some of the weapons over to Islamic militants, according to United States officials and foreign diplomats.
(. . .)

But in the months before, the Obama administration clearly was worried about the consequences of its hidden hand in helping arm Libyan militants, concerns that have not previously been reported. The weapons and money from Qatar strengthened militant groups in Libya, allowing them to become a destabilizing force since the fall of the Qaddafi government.

The Obama administration did not initially raise objections when Qatar began shipping arms to opposition groups in Syria, even if it did not offer encouragement, according to current and former administration officials. But they said the United States has growing concerns that, just as in Libya, the Qataris are equipping some of the wrong militants.

The United States, which had only small numbers of C.I.A. officers in Libya during the tumult of the rebellion, provided little oversight of the arms shipments. Within weeks of endorsing Qatar’s plan to send weapons there in spring 2011, the White House began receiving reports that they were going to Islamic militant groups. They were “more antidemocratic, more hard-line, closer to an extreme version of Islam” than the main rebel alliance in Libya, said a former Defense Department official.

The Qatari assistance to fighters viewed as hostile by the United States demonstrates the Obama administration’s continuing struggles in dealing with the Arab Spring uprisings, as it tries to support popular protest movements while avoiding American military entanglements. Relying on surrogates allows the United States to keep its fingerprints off operations, but also means they may play out in ways that conflict with American interests.

(. . .)

He said that Qatar would not have gone through with the arms shipments if the United States had resisted them, but other current and former administration officials said Washington had little leverage at times over Qatari officials. “They march to their own drummer,” said a former senior State Department official. The White House and State Department declined to comment.

(. . .)

But after the White House decided to encourage Qatar — and on a smaller scale, the United Arab Emirates — to ship arms to the Libyans, President Obama complained in April 2011 to the emir of Qatar that his country was not coordinating its actions in Libya with the United States, the American officials said. “The president made the point to the emir that we needed transparency about what Qatar was doing in Libya,” said a former senior administration official who had been briefed on the matter. (INSERT: It was at this time that US Ambassador Chris Stevens quietly reappeared in Benghazi, where he took over direction of Eastern Libyan militias and CIA collection of weapons.)

About that same time, Mahmoud Jibril, then the prime minister of the Libyan transitional government, expressed frustration to administration officials that the United States was allowing Qatar to arm extremist groups opposed to the new leadership, according to several American officials. They, like nearly a dozen current and former White House, diplomatic, intelligence, military and foreign officials, would speak only on the condition of anonymity for this article.

The administration has never determined where all of the weapons, paid for by Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, went inside Libya, officials said. Qatar is believed to have shipped by air and sea small arms, including machine guns, automatic rifles, and ammunition, for which it has demanded reimbursement from Libya’s new government. Some of the arms since have been moved from Libya to militants with ties to Al Qaeda in Mali, where radical jihadi factions have imposed Shariah law in the northern part of the country, the former Defense Department official said. Others have gone to Syria, according to several American and foreign officials and arms traders.

[Fred Sanders]

19. That is not the point at all. Put things in topical perspective rather than using stock thinking.

[marble falls]

28. And that perspective would be what? That Israel honors its relationship with the US selectively?

That spying on allies to manipulate that allies foreign policies is OK?

And to answer your next question, no, its not all right for the US to spy on its allies, or to interfere with the policy making of other countries.

Or for the US Congress to undermine US foreign policy by directly contacting another nations leaders.

[Fred Sanders]

33. The issue is Israel spying on China, France, Russia, Germany all at the same time!! On a very

important and topical issue.

"It happens all the time" is also the pathetic defence of Fox for racism in America...it is not a defence, it is classic deflection.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

34. I think the perspective is

it's good when our 'side' does it, it's bad when 'their side' does it to us.

[Fred Sanders]

38. Best Friends Forever do not spy on the most delicate Five Nation talks and then complain they do not

have enough information about those talks.

In the middle of an election campaign during which you purposely snubbed said BFF in public.....

Look at the forest, not the trees.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

39. These are not the 'Best Friends Forever' I would want.

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

[BeanMusical]

104. +1

[bvar22]

201. How much more will it take before Americans realize that Israel...

...is neither our "Friend" or our "Ally"?

Israel is entirely self-centered and self-serving.
They are very glad we are so willing to fight their proxy battles for them,
but don't feel like they owe us anything for our soldier's blood.

If Israel feels like they need to kill Americans,
well, so be it, and damn the consequences, because there ARE no consequences.



This was NO "accident". The Israeli attack jets and boats all KNEW damn well that this was an American ship. I believe the death toll on the Liberty was 37.

[LittleBlue]

6. Seems like Obama is laying the groundwork for withholding the UNSC veto

First he's convincing the media that he loves Israel blah blah blah, but Bibi is a madman hell bent on poisoning the relationship.

Bibi bit off more than he can chew. When the international hammer comes down in Israel, he'll have to explain to his people why his beloved country lost its vital defender. Maybe he forgot that Obama isn't running for reelection.

As a bonus, it makes Republicans look like even bigger traitors than they already were.

[Fred Sanders]

35. Obama is preparing nothing but the logical consequence of the groundwork Israel and Republicans dug up.

[mountain grammy]

50. I hope that's the case, or, at least, the outcome.

[harun]

210. That would be fantastic.

[L0oniX]

7. Some spanking is in order ...maybe cut allowance for a month too.

[marble falls]

30. That would actually be a reasonable reaction.

[BeanMusical]

105. Absolutely.

[truedelphi]

179. Cutting Israel's allowance is not possible.

A bill sailed through Congress back in 2008, when we had a Democratic majority in both the Senate and the House, and it allowed for 20 billions of dollars to be doled out to Israel starting in 2009 and ending in 2018.

When a person considers that the 37 million citizens living in Calif. have seen their local budgets cut back to the bone, with schools districts existing on 65% of what they had in 2009-10, and libraries about to shut down in Sacramento area, this is a damn shame.

Our Congressional PNAC-Koolaid-sipping "elected officials" prefer to help Israel before Americans.

[L0oniX]

182. US Americans first ...should be a campaign slogan.,

[Mnpaul]

191. You got it

We should not be cutting aid to our people while this aid goes untouched.

[bvar22]

202. Israel should be sending us aid.

Every Israeli is provided Cradle to Grave Universal Health Care.
Meanwhile, Americans are STILL dying for lack of Health Care.

[TRoN33]

8. Our very own government are fracturing before our very eyes!!!

This is real unbelievable that Republicans in the congress are undermining sitting President and doing everything to stop this deal even if it has to conspire with foreign intelligence from country that are likely going to be hostile to America in near future; Israel. Shame on you, Israeli officers.


Our own government are losing credibility because of Israel-licking Republicans.

[Fred Sanders]

20. No one is losing credibility except Republicans.

[sabrina 1]

140. Not just Republicans. The Democrats who entertained Bibi while he was attempting to undermine

the President before Congress. No Democrat should have participated in that farce, but sadly they did.

[whathehell]

195. Correct. Elizabeth Warren & Bernie Sanders were some of the few who opted out. n/t

Warren

[closeupready]

23. Part of the issue, IMO, is that almost NO Republican in Congress served in the military

during wartime. Thus, this is all merely chess. Speaking of which, did you every see "The Chess Players", the Satyajit Ray historical docudrama?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076696/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_pl

Quite analogous, IMO.

[karynnj]

56. Could the actions actions on Iran diplomacy finally splinter off the remaining old time Republicans?

Read any of the accounts on James Bakers' J Street speech. He really is very unhappy with Netanyahu re BOTH Iran diplomacy and the peace process. This article speaks of the Republican reaction and the fact that Baker is prominently listed as a Jeb Bush adviser. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/03/24/jeb-bush-stresses-support-for-israel-in-wake-of-james-bakers-comments/

For laughs note that somehow GHWB's SoS is called PRE Reagan anti Israel by Bill Kristol. Fascinating time line there -- as it shows that the neo con RW, as exemplified by Kristol, has so usurped "Reagan", they are calling people who really did advise Reagan/Bush as "Pre Reagan". Very strange!

The serious point of this is that Reagan is the hero/god of the Republicans. This is not the first time that the real RR would not have jumped the bar the right sets to be part of their special club --even as they claim to march in his footsteps.

It would be something if people like Baker, Lugar and other moderate foreign policy Republicans speak out for giving diplomacy a chance. Obama/Kerry had to know that an agreement with Iran was an out and out break with the neo con foreign policy and that there would be a fight.

This is a fight for the soul of American foreign policy. I think Kerry is correct in saying that if an agreement is reached -- and if it working, a future President really could not take us back to the point we are at today. It would make no sense. More importantly, I doubt that Israel, Sunni dictatorships and the US could persuade the world to reapply sanctions onto an Iran that is complying with the agreement. (Not to mention, I hope we get a Democratic President, who could continue to work for a more peaceful world.)

[grasswire]

112. this progress makes the chance of a false flag operation....

...larger, doesn't it? It always is the trump card held by the neocons;

[Cosmocat]

216. Not a fucking chance

none, zero, zip, nada ...

The republican party has fully devolved, completely, and beyond any chance of return, to a full obsession on "Winning" the political war in this country and their dogma is fully entrenched in two absolutes - the liberal is the sum total of all evil in the world and any means to defeat the liberal is justified.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

102. "Fractured" is the word the woman journalist Thom Hartmann has on weekly used

we are close to a major problem...we deserve it too

[mercuryblues]

9. The Senate

did their part and provided the government with a list of 47 names to investigate as co-conspirators.

[Baitball Blogger]

10. This may go on all the time with our allies-especially with Israel.

This isn't the first time they were caught spying on us. The fact that we're hearing about it is a sign that the administration is planning to play hard ball. We are being prepared.

[stevenleser]

11. Not surprising or shocking. Countries spy, particularly on issues that are important to their

security.

I would be more surprised if the Mossad didn't try to spy on the talks.

The part that is a no-no is for the Mossad to then tell Republican legislators so that they can attack the President's efforts. We'll see what comes of that. Any Republican legislators who participated are potentially guilty of various crimes relating to espionage.

[Oilwellian]

15. Does the Mossad always share what they find with Republicans as well? n/t

On edit: I see you added to your post and addressed my question. Thanks.

[stevenleser]

27. Yes, I hit save by mistake before adding that part. That is what is special here.

It SHOULD result in jail time for any Republicans involved.

We'll see.

[Fred Sanders]

24. Missing the point is that Israel does not get a "get out of spying" free card, do they?

And look at the topical connection, not generalization to defend criminal actions.

Treason is treason and this is treason...no matter how one wants to define it...no debate on that.

But, hey, treason happens all the time with Israel, no biggee??? That is SO Fox.

Really, you want to go with that?

[stevenleser]

26. In 99.999% of cases, countries get a "get out of spying" free card.

Free or a minor and totally symbolic slap on the wrist. We spied on Merkel to the point of bugging her cell phone. And what have the repercussions been for that? It's already forgotten.

Countries spy.

What is special here is the alleged collusion with Republican legislators. That is almost certainly a crime on the part of those legislators. We'll see what comes of THAT.

[Fred Sanders]

29. So you went with it.....because it happens?....collusion is the reason for the treason laws!

Cause and consequence.

Crime and Punishment.

You can try again.

The State of Israel committed treason. Period.

Also treason on France, Germany, Russia, China and UK....

The question is not the reason, or the if...the question is the punishment.

What should be the consequence?

To Israel, from America and the international community...and the UN?

[stevenleser]

32. You're criticizing me for noting reality as it is? I think that says it all.

And no, when a country spies on another country, that's not treason. You might want to look up the meaning of that word.

[Fred Sanders]

36. Same criminal penalties if I am not mistaken, whatever the name, spy versus spy.

I assume you acknowledge my logic as you have not addressed it?

5 + 1 talks...know what I mean?

[Codeine]

89. How can one country commit treason

against another?

That's not what treason means.

[Fred Sanders]

117. When your BFF, person or country, spies on you and gives info. to whomever, it is treason.

It is spying, it is undermining a foreign government, 5 of them, including BFF, it is punishable by desth, all sides,.......need I go on?

[Codeine]

121. Treason does not mean what you think it means.

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

[sabrina 1]

146. If any of that information was provided to any member of our Congress, leading to Boehner

agreeing to the request from Bibi to invite him to address our Congress in an attempt to undermine the POTUS on foreign policy related to the National Security of this country, then treason could be involved.

It would mean that members of the US Congress received intel gathered by a foreign spy agency on THEIR country and were influenced by it to collude with a foreign leader to try to undermine their President in his efforts to protect OUR National Security.

Imo, that is why there should be hearings to determine IF Boehner, or any other member of Congress were privy to that Intel.

[Codeine]

147. Of course.

But Israel isn't the treasonous party in that scenario.

[sabrina 1]

151. I agree. Treason only applies to the citizens of a particular country. I'm just wondering if

Republicans, who do appear to be woefully ignorant considering eg, the letter from the 47 which revealed an embarrassing lack of knowledge of International and Constitutional law, making their threats against Obama's policies almost laughable, were as ignorant regarding accepting information obtained by the spy agencies of foreign nations and then colluding with such a foreign nation in part based on having that info shared with them, to undermine the National Interests of this country.

It would not surprise me in the least IF they were that stupid and/or arrogant.

[TheKentuckian]

164. How can a sovereign state commit treason against another?

For bonus points, for whatever absurd rationale you have how is the US not guilty of such "treason" 24/7 when we totally spy on everybody?

[stone space]

166. The State of Israel is not a US citizen.

The State of Israel committed treason. Period.

[Codeine]

184. The people most likely to use that word

are invariably the people least likely to know what it means.

[whatchamacallit]

138. You say the important part isn't the spying

but the sharing of information with members of congress... an act committed by Israel. Yet you seem to exclude them from the punishment equation. Even if we apply the "everybody does it" spying apologia, there should be severe consequences for Israel for playing this dangerous game with our affairs.

[Dont call me Shirley]

61. Rationalizing and justifying immoral behavior is precisely what has gotten this whole world in the

utter disastrous mess we are in, global warming and all!

[stevenleser]

65. Oh please. There are 190 countries on this planet, virtually all spy.

The spying in itself is not the issue. It's what's done afterward with the information that potentially is the problem. Such is the case here. The collusion with Republican congressman is the issue.

[Dont call me Shirley]

72. Refer back to my prior post.

[stevenleser]

80. Refer back to my prior post. nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

87. When bad behavior is the norm, as it is today, bad results are all that can be expected.

[rusty fender]

139. + 1

Exactamente! Easy to understand, but some people love to be obtuse.

[Sanity Claws]

94. My thoughts are along those lines

And I'm tired of being told I'm naive or things like that.
We should not countenance this kind of behavior. We have to change the dialogue.

[Dont call me Shirley]

97. Thank you. We have got to start making nice in the world to counter all the mean.

[sabrina 1]

226. Exactly! It's like a bad parent when a child misbehaves, 'oh, s/he's just being a kid'. And when the

child becomes a teenager and lands in jail, the same parent wonders 'what happened'.

Dismissing these egregious acts IS, as you say, why we are where we are.

I am very suspicious of the willingness to be so blase about these clearly illegal acts, sounds more like an attempt to distract from the seriousness of what is going on to me.

[sabrina 1]

144. Well, then it's time to make sure that it doesn't 'go on all the time'. But supposing it does, do

foreign leaders take the intel their own spies gather to elected members of other countries to try to usurp the leadership of those countries?

Seems to me an investigation of what Bibi shared with American members of Congress is in order now.

IF he, a foreign leader, using info his spies gathered on six nation talks for peace, provided any of that info to anyone in Congress for the purpose of usurping US foreign policies, and they responded by participating in the plot hatched by his close advisers by inviting him, as was requested, to speak to our Congress for the sole purpose of undermining this country's National Security, there is definitely a need for hearings.

Because it is our National Security the President is working on, therefore hearings need to begin to ferret out who in our Congress is colluding with foreign leaders against the interests of the US.

[world wide wally]

13. If Boehner and his merry Republicans have seceded from the US, let's treat them as such

[Duval]

14. Will be interesting to see

where this goes. Thanks for the heads' up, WRP!

[WillyT]

16. K & R !!!

[hunter]

17. Israel probably has a lot of dirt on the congress people it's "persuading" too.

That's they way the spy game works.

The ugliness of the 47 Republicans who "signed the letter" may run a lot deeper than their politics.

[erronis]

25. Good point. A little blackmail between friends?

I would imagine at this point everybody has the dirt on everybody else. Probably even planted a few illicit romances in front of hidden cameras.

Come to think of it, perhaps the next world war will be fought without nukes - just lobbing videos at each other.

[hunter]

45. I'm certain that's what holds the Republican Party together; not just a little blackmail...

...but great stinking piles of it.

I like your idea of a war fought with videos, however. That's much preferable to a war fought with nukes!

[CanonRay]

21. Just another symptom of many in Congress who believe they are above the laws they create

Just so happens than many of them are wealthy as well, which makes them doubly above the law.

[Dragonfli]

174. Unfortunately the last few years have proven that there are a great many above the law

They appear to be absolutely correct in their belief that they are above the laws they create, no Bankers go to jail , no war criminals go to jail, not even professionals whose job it is to torture people go to jail, yet they have all broken laws, multiple laws in fact and on multiple occasions.

The law appears to only apply to "the little people". Why on earth should they fear laws proven to not apply to the politically and/or financially connected? They have no laws to fear and they damn well know it. Such is the inevitable price a nation pays for consistently failing to apply the rule of law, from Contra until present, the standard of a class above the law has firmly been set, and confirmed multiple times by President Obama's justice department.

[onenote]

22. Question: can spying on Iran be distinguished

From spying on the US in the context of spying on the negotiations? Presumably the U.S. has no problem with Israel spying on Iran. Also the us itself presumably spies on both Iran and Israel.

How the information garnered from such spying is used is of course a separate issue

[JI7]

31. there is nothing surprising about this

[Fred Sanders]

40. Right...nothing to see...look away at Israel spying on four of it's friends......powerful friends.

Try pulling that off again!

Might work in America, pulling wool over ones own eyes is a national pastime, but not so much in Europe.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. NO WAY, these guys are our BEST ALLIES and totally interested in a peaceful solution.

Right?



Right?

[WillyT]

41. WSJ Has It Too:

Link: http://www.wsj.com/article_email/israel-spied-on-iran-talks-1427164201-lMyQjAxMTA1MTI0MzIyNDM0Wj

[Thespian2]

42. Big K & R

Thanks for the post. Haven't read the Guardian today, but will later on. Israel has never been a trusted ally.

[maindawg]

43. A congressional investigation

Will they have a big investigation where they grill members like Boener ? I doubt it. They are too busy with their 17 Bengazi hearings.

[Iliyah]

73. Nah, they will just blame Obama

[Cosmocat]

217. BINGO!

It is his fault they are assholes.

Anything they do is thus justified.

[Fred Sanders]

44. "Israel, you are SO UnFriended" - America, France and Germany. One month timeout to investigate.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

49. What if it does? What happened the last time we caught Israel spying on us?

http://www.newsweek.com/israel-wont-stop-spying-us-249757

http://www.businessinsider.com/israeli-spying-on-us-has-reached-terrifying-levels-2014-5

https://www.corbettreport.com/a-brief-history-of-israeli-spying-in-the-us/

http://www.alternet.org/story/130891/breaking_the_taboo_on_israel%27s_spying_efforts_on_the_united_states

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/sp-neumeister.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

[Fred Sanders]

51. Stay topical...no more matter how many examples of spying one posts - is still the death penalty.

Not staying topical is the defence to this High Crime by a foreign government.

And 5 other countries involved.....

Although Obama knew of the Israeli spying intended to derail and internstional agreement in favor of war and undermining the sitting American President, also designed for domestic, happening right now national elections....and has been playing Israel all along....Obama is a long range thinker against foes that think little beyond the tips of their very long and growing noses.

[gordianot]

52. U.S.S. Liberty

[WhoIsNumberNone]

53. Technically that wasn't spying.

[gordianot]

59. Yes in 1968 someone had the gall to suggest they be told when certain ships were in the area.

As I remember there was a fairly intense Cold War in the Mediterranean in international waters. Not just unmarked Mirage fighters (depends on source) but patrol boats joined in.

[magical thyme]

165. when is the last time they shared their intel with members of our senate

so that they could use that intel to undermine negotiations?

Because that is the big deal here. If they shared any of that intel with one or more senators, each senator was obligated to report it.

If some senator instead used that intel to undermine US negotiations, that is treason.

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. I heard this morning that a "Senior Israeli Official" responded ...

(something to the effect of) they weren't spying on the US ... they were spying on the Iranians ... who the US was talking to!

[Fred Sanders]

62. Get out the capers and lox! This is going to be a messy bagel Israel got themselves in.

[one_voice]

150. Wow.

I bet you don't even realize how bigoted that is...or maybe you do.

[MrBig]

153. Yup, that was my reaction to that comment

[one_voice]

155. I updated...

so maybe not...lol

[MrBig]

156. Yup, still agree with you

I alerted on it and tried to explain the issues with it. Vote came back 2-5 to leave it, and included some snide comments by the jury

[one_voice]

160. Some of the bigotry that's allowed to..

stand embarrasses me as a Democrat/Liberal. Seriously. As soon as I read that...

[MrBig]

162. Agreed

And what's sad is it isn't even the most blatantly anti-Semitic statement in this thread. And THAT was allowed to stand.

[840high]

203. Not unusual for this poster.

[TheKentuckian]

167. You may as well have went Fuzzy Zoeller and busted out watermelon and fried chicken

What a open fucking bigot you are!

[Fred Sanders]

192. What a complete misser of satire some folks are..your comparison is a comprehension error.

[TheKentuckian]

221. Satire of what? Did you actually think that was some kind of cutting humor?

Comprehension error? Of plain English? Please! What was it that was misread?

[Fred Sanders]

222. Misread? Like "All Is Forgiven", and accompanying narrative? The fake Paris "March of Leaders"? Shouldn't we

be focusing on the comprehension errors and abuse of plain English of the entire American mass media, rather than engage in intratribal word warfare?

[Firebrand Gary]

55. Popcorn indeed...

[albino65]

57. Natanyahu=Shylock

Israel would never spy on their staunchest ally, the United States of America. (Jonathon Pollard anyone?)

[Fred Sanders]

63. Not sorry they did it, sorry they got caught and will blame Obama for finding them out.

How come Bibi has not formed a majority coalition yet??....??

[Sheepshank]

84. poor choice of words...you should change it

The word “shylock,” which has been used to refer to loan sharks, is an eponym from a Jewish character in Shakespeare’s The Merchant of Venice. Jewish Americans have publicly challenged the portrayal as an insult to Jews for more than 50 years, according to a review of TIME’s archive, even as it remained a fixture of the modern lexicon. Today, “shylock” is considered an antisemitic slur and, after being called out by the Anti-Defamation League, Biden apologized for his “poor choice of words

http://time.com/3394403/shylock-biden/

[Codeine]

91. Wow. You may want to rethink that word.

Seriously.

[MrBig]

99. I should be shocked

I should be shocked blatant anti-Semitic language is used on DU. I should be shocked a jury voted to let it stand.

Sadly I'm not

[albino65]

108. Semitic refers to ALL the people of the middle east

Jingoism in any context is suspect.

[MrBig]

110. By any definition, it's still anti-Semitic

The term "shylock", which you used, is anti-Semitic even by your perverted definition. A prior poster explained it as such.

I recommend apologizing and deleting your post.

[uppityperson]

128. many DUers have pointed out the slur you used. Rather than trying to deflect, how about doing the

right thing and deleting it?

[question everything]

223. Probably cannot. Posting privileges revoked. For now (nt)

[tishaLA]

114. A jury actually alloweed this to stay?

Pretty shocking.

[cyberswede]

178. ...but Admins disagree

http://www.democraticunderground.com?com=profile&uid=293862&sub=trans

[tishaLA]

180. well, that's a mitzvah.

but it does point out how capricious the jury system is--something transparently antisemitic gets a pass! I'm happy the poster has been flagged, but I'm still disappointed a jury could let it stand.

[cyberswede]

181. Yeah - I hope juror #3 sees that Admins banned that poster as an Anti-Semite.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

120. Beyond the simple fact that that should have been hidden,

Exactly why would you even say 'N=S'? In what specific way do you feel that the current Israeli leader compares to a fictional Shakespearian stereotype character that was used as a symbol for greed?

[question everything]

122. Nice way to introduce an Anti-Semitic sentiment

into a political discussion.

Cartoons from der Sturmer next?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_St%C3%BCrmer

[enki23]

143. Netanyahu is a nasty, dangerous piece of shit. And that has nothing to do with his ethnicity.

So... yeah. To fucking hell with that 'Shylock' bullshit, and to fucking hell with all its sources.

[one_voice]

152. Shylock..

Disgusting.

[840high]

204. Hard to believe.

[herding cats]

168. Netanyahu is an ass.

That's something most everyone here will agree with you on. Using antisemitic language when referring to him is bigoted, wrong and offensive, and made you look bad. Refusing to remove the offending language just made you come off all the worse.

It's shameful that anyone on this site would ever defend such speech.

[Mosby]

200. It made it past a jury so there are 4 others here who think it's fine. nt

[herding cats]

208. I'm hoping it was just a sad testament to knowing so little about antisemitic language

I don't know how well the alert was worded, so I can still hope people just didn't understand the meaning. The offending poster had it plainly pointed out to them and chose to leave it.

I see they've been banned from the site now. It's at nice to know the management understood.

[Chathamization]

220. Maybe. I remember first hearing the term when I saw "Get Shorty," and didn't understand what they

were talking about (I found the film oddly racist as well). Like "gyp," I wouldn't be surprised if even a lot of people who heard the term simply lacked the context for it, which might be why the comment was left to stand. Of course, this is also why educating people about this is important.

As an aside, I was pretty shocked when I saw The Merchant of Venice. The antisemitism in it is pretty horrible, and it's surprising that it's still performed (same with Taming of the Shrew).

[KingCharlemagne]

58. K&R! - nt

[tomsaiditagain]

64. Whoop!!

Its not like the countries of the world do not spy on each other.

Whoop is what I say.

But if other countries spy on the USA it is a crime. OMG!!

[Maedhros]

90. So you're OK with a foreign power using the proceeds of espionage on our country

to attempt to manipulate our Congress into undermining our President, because "everyone does it?"

I take it you approve of Congress' actions with regard to the Iran negotiations?

[BillZBubb]

133. Well, then, that makes it OK!

You are missing the central point. Aside from the blatant ingratitude Israel shows their biggest defender and ally, spying on us to undercut the president and work with his political opposition shows Israel for what it really is.

[magical thyme]

188. and what do you think of 47 members of congress

attempting to undermine US diplomacy as a result of being lobbied and apparently fed cherry-picked intel by our "ally?"

[Omaha Steve]

66. Has a member of Congress ever been charged for something like this?

[blackspade]

68. With allies like this.....

[father founding]

69. Rouge state

The sooner the US lets go and lets Israel pull itself up on it's own bootstraps, the better.

[yodermon]

70. Would love for something to come of this. Nothing will. n/t

[Alkene]

71. Clearly a change provoking discovery.

deadpan- -deadpan

[rocktivity]

74. Candidate for This Year's "You Call This NEWS?" award

The US has just been too polite to mention it up until now.


rocktivity

[George II]

77. CNN has also reported it!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

88. if this was a surprise to the Obama Team, I would be shocked.

however, releasing this as a fact, at this stage, at this time, in this way, to news outlets of all stripes, shows just how unreliable, devious, and backstabbing the Bibi Bunch has been.

A mere "I was taken out of context," or a "I always supported a two state solution," or "You misheard what I said during my campaign," or "I told the US Congress exactly what the truth is, and they responded grandly!" simply won't cut it anymore. No matter how far Bibi walks back his racist comments and his apartheid policies (at least in words only), it won't be enough. This is telling the world that Bibi is not a trustable individual, with little or no basis to ever trust him again.

Congrats, Bibi, you built yourself a grand castle of sand, and the tide is rising.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

93. This will turn out to be either a big nothing-burger or a nothing-burger will done about it. MSNBC

is currently busy defending Israel and painting the White House as an aggressor.

But, in the end, big fat nothing-burger...

[Android3.14]

95. Just watch this disappear into the background

The rules only apply to those without political/financial support. The big media outlets are complicit.

[spin]

98. Israel did probably spy on the talks and we found out about it by spying of Israel. (n/t)

[sabrina 1]

149. Perhaps, but did Obama go to Israel and plot with members of Bibi's opposition in their government

to undermine Israel's foreign policies?

[spin]

176. There are rumors that Obama did try to undermine Bibi's election. ...

Of course all are from conservative sources. There are also rumors of a possible Senate investigation about this interference.

Time will tell.

[spin]

230. self delete. posted by mistake in wrong forum.

[GliderGuider]

100. The money quote is at the end of the article.

“What worries me and what should be of high concern to the leaders of Israel is that this is ample proof that the relations at large between the US and Israel are sustaining an earthquake. The fact that it is happening is less worrying than that it was leaked. Also, any intervention by Israel in the inner working of American politics is wrong. If this report is true and Netanyahu’s intervention used intelligence material, then it is just making it worse.”

Everybody knows there is spying going on. The clue to how pissed the WH is with Bibi is in the fact that it was leaked.

[zeemike]

103. If it turns out to be true nothing will happen.

It never has.

When Israel attacked the USS Liberty and killed some of it's crew nothing happened...so why would anything happen if we catch them spying on us?

[pasto76]

107. Israel spies on us as much as china

[Spitfire of ATJ]

116. Which proves the Republicans give lousy reports.

[workinclasszero]

111. So how much did AIPAC pay Sen. Cotton this time

to spy on the USA for them/Israel?

[jomin41]

113. I hope my president

doesn't have another "tantrum" and upset grampy.

[tavernier]

118. Not to worry, Chuck Todd will be on it momentarily.

I'm certain that at this very second he is monitoring ten different phone conversations regarding this revelation, scratching last minute notes as he prepares to make the announcement to the American people.

My nails have been chewed to the quick in anticipation!!

[still_one]

119. Actually the spying is NOT the problem. All countries do it against their friends and foes. The

problem is that Israel is using that information to manipulate Congress, and that is serious, especially since they are trying to sabotage the negotiation process by all evidence, and this implies more than just "influencing" U.S. policy, but it inserting itself in our political system, which no foreign country should be allowed to do

[DaveT]

123. What will happen because of Israel spying and passing their "intel" to the GOP?

Nothing at all.


News junkies will kick this around for a few days, maybe even weeks. Ninety percent of the American public will never even realize there was a discussion about it.


We are now spending more than double on war than at the end of the Clinton Administration. There is no prospect that this gravy train will stop running any time soon. A tiny minority of Democratic politicians who represent safe districts and states will say that we should reduce the defense budget, while there are even fewer Ron Paul style Republican members of Congress who will say so as well.

But the mainstream media and a solid phalanx of talking head "experts" will constantly laugh those ideas out of consideration as pathetic madness. And huge majorities of both parties in Congress will not under any circumstances do anything to disrupt the flow of cash from the Treasury into the pockets of the military contractors.


The hegemony of the main stream media is eroding, and more and more Americans are becoming alienated from the fraudulent political culture that projects as unassailable common sense the preposterous idea that we need to spend far more today that when we were facing a nuclear armed superpower. We must encourage this alienation, for the obvious reason that the same people who make money off of war are the ones who control the mainstream media.



Hoping that the Constitution and our Federal criminal statutes will be observed is a pretty thought. And someday we might well resurrect the rule of law.

But not now. And not against Bibi or Israel. It is a measure of how weak the President is that he is reduced to "leaks" as a way to counter the political manipulations of Netanyahu.

[oberliner]

125. The US and Israel both spy on one another

In fact, the US found out this information by spying on Israel (per the article you posted).

[leveymg]

127. Yes, but do we pass secrets over to Netanyahu's political enemies in an effort to undermine his

international diplomacy? I'd be interested in an example of that.

[questionseverything]

129. just a side note

but i find it curious no one has mentioned that we taxpayers are paying for the spying isreal is doing ...didnt we find that out from snowden?

[magical thyme]

190. No, Snowden revealed we are paying for the spying done on us by our own government

We already knew we were giving Israel billions of dollars to fund their "activities."

And now we find that we are also paying for a chunk of our Senators to collude with Israel to undermine our President's foreign diplomacy, which we also pay for.

[oberliner]

130. If the US felt its security was being put in jeopardy by an ally

...the US would do whatever it takes to prevent that from happening.

Now I certainly do not agree with Netanyahu's assessment that the US negotiating this deal with Iran puts Israel's security at risk, but that is where he was coming from and an American administration would do the same to an ally if it had that perception.

[Blue_Tires]

132. Any Snow-Wald comment on this one?

?

[awoke_in_2003]

134. I'm shocked.

No, really, I am.


Ok, not so much. K&R

[postatomic]

135. Israel has always done whatever it wants

Remember when they took out the nuclear facility in Iraq? They didn't ask anyone for permission. They just did it.

I suspect that Israel isn't thrilled with making allies with the brain dead republicans. They are using them to promote their agenda and since the republicans have always had this boner (pun intended) for Iran it is an easy "friendship".

I have no doubt that this is true.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

137. Israel denies it. Of course, they deny having nuclear weapons too.

[oberliner]

142. Israel does not deny having nuclear weapons

They have just said they would not be the first country in the region to use them.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

145. Have they been inspected yet? Will there be sanctions if not?

[Cleita]

154. I was also told by a neighbor who has Israeli ties that Palestinians are treated

equally to other Israelis unless they break the law.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

157. I have a Palestinian optometrist who disagrees with your neighbor's assessment.

[Cleita]

158. My neighbor is a moron. He's like a Jewish version of a Tea Bagger. He has drank

The KoolAid whole when it comes to Israel.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

159. There is no error so monstrous that it fails to find defenders among the ablest men. Lord Acton

Let alone morons like your neighbor.

[magical thyme]

172. per WSJ article, Israeli officials practically admit to using the intel to lobby congress

while denying spying (they claim they got the intel from other governments involved in the talks).

http://www.wsj.com/article_email/israel-spied-on-iran-talks-1427164201-lMyQjAxMTA1MTI0MzIyNDM0Wj

"Using levers of political influence unique to Israel, Messrs. Netanyahu and Dermer calculated that a lobbying campaign in Congress before an announcement was made would improve the chances of killing or reshaping any deal. They knew the intervention would damage relations with the White House, Israeli officials said, but decided that was an acceptable cost."

"Mr. Dermer and other Israeli officials over the following weeks gave lawmakers and their aides information the White House was trying to keep secret, including how the emerging deal could allow Iran to operate around 6,500 centrifuges, devices used to process nuclear material, said congressional officials who attended the briefings.

The Israeli officials told lawmakers that Iran would also be permitted to deploy advanced IR-4 centrifuges that could process fuel on a larger scale, meeting participants and administration officials said. Israeli officials said such fuel, which under the emerging deal would be intended for energy plants, could be used to one day build nuclear bombs."

[Historic NY]

186. The the Senator Cotton and his klan aided and abet them...

with their silly letter.

[hifiguy]

187. Would not be ONE BIT surprised.

With friends like this, who needs enemies.

Jayzus.

[Rex]

194. None dare call it treason, except for progressives.

Always funny who defends the GOP and who berates them. Like clockwork on DU.

[lewebley3]

197. Bibi is a facist, and the GOP are traitors!!!!

Bibi wants war and so do the GOP!!!

[cheapdate]

199. I would be surprised if it wasn't true.

[marym625]

206. Well holy Toledo

[Major Hogwash]

207. I thought everyone wanted peace in the Middle East.

Evidently, Netanyahu thinks he is the ruler of the entire world and wants final say on everything!

He probably read Hillary's emails when she was using a server that wasn't secure, too.

The longer this goes on the worse it is going to be for the Republicans if it does end in a peaceful agreement.
If the Republicans continue to fight the agreement, then they will lose a lot of political capital over it next year.

[DFW]

209. If true, I'm not surprised

I have both Israeli and Iranian friends, and they both tell me that the sizable Jewish community in Iran before 1979 dispersed widely. Though most of them ended up in Israel or the USA, plenty of them stayed in Iran and went underground, disguising their ethnicity, much like some fair-haired Jews did in Germany during the Nazi era. It makes perfect sense that the Mossad might have reached (or even placed--they are no idiots) some of them, and that some might even penetrated into the inner circle of the current Iranian government.

[cynzke]

212. The Other Shoe....

just dropped!

[cascadiance]

219. Justin Raimondo just published an article now that highlights the history of Israeli spying on us.

Read more here...

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015/03/24/espionage-treason-and-the-congressional-fifth-column/

Espionage, Treason, and the Congressional Fifth Column
Congress canoodles with Israeli spies to undermine Iran deal

by Justin Raimondo, March 25, 2015

The spectacle of virtually the entire Senate GOP caucus mobilizing in support of a foreign power in order to drag us into war with Iran has certainly been instructive. Not since the Federalist party plotted with the British during the War of 1812 has an American fifth column been so open about their treason.

But isn’t the "t"-word a bit hyperbolic? After all, don’t all Americans, even the worst warmongers among us, have the right to free speech? Those members of Congress were merely expressing their opinion – right?

Not so fast:

"Soon after the U.S. and other major powers entered negotiations last year to curtail Iran’s nuclear program, senior White House officials learned Israel was spying on the closed-door talks.

"The spying operation was part of a broader campaign by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government to penetrate the negotiations and then help build a case against the emerging terms of the deal, current and former U.S. officials said. In addition to eavesdropping, Israel acquired information from confidential U.S. briefings, informants and diplomatic contacts in Europe, the officials said.

...

[mstinamotorcity2]

227. Will somebody tell me the truth?? !!

Am I mistaken or did President Ronald Reagan give Iran Missiles and the stood in front of a bank of microphones and cameras and say " The United States of America doesn't deal with terrorist." or something to that effect??? Isn't that what the Ollie north move was about??