My advice to people who refuse to vote for Hillary

[CreekDog]

Get someone to run and get them to win the Democratic Party nomination.

You have your work cutout for you, but it can be done.

By the way, anyone who has a chance of getting the nomination will agree to support the nominee. So think about that and think about if your ultimatums have disqualified anyone you want to support from having a chance of winning the nomination and/or the general.

I'm open to supporting Hillary in the primary and in the general, but I haven't decided who to support for the nomination yet. But regardless of what I want, there is a huge amount of support in the party for Hillary. That support is not invalid and that support is greater than any other candidate at the moment.

So that should at least be respected, if you want them to respect your candidate, whomever that's going to be.

Just food for thought.

(Just to be clear, I will support the Democratic Nominee, no matter what)

[Scootaloo]

1. You know there's guaranteed to be more than one Democratic candidate in the primary, right?

Yet strangely, no guarantee that Clinton will even be one of those candidates.

[1StrongBlackMan]

11. Wait, what??? ...

I keep reading on DU that there won't be a primary!!!

[TreasonousBastard]

2. And my advice for people who have advice...

for people who refuse to vote for Hillary...

Ignore 'em.

They won't take your advice and at least a good half of them are just trolls. Most of the other half are probably just assholes.

Nothing against not liking Hillary, but loudly proclaiming such intentions gets ridiculous.

[NYC_SKP]

3. Kicked and Recommended!

Damn, CreekDog!

Every so often you post a real winner.

[CreekDog]

7. if you're refusing to vote for Hillary if she is nominated, I wouldn't say "we agree"

[HassleCat]

4. Could Happen

I could see myself refusing to vote for Clinton if she did something horrible, and I mean more serious than having sex with a young intern. Otherwise, a person would have to be suicidal to refuse to vote for the Democratic candidate just because she's not the best choice. Yes, I know the arguments, and I appreciate them. I voted for Nader, since I lived in a safe state, and my vote made no difference. If there is any chance the Republican nominee could win my state, I will vote for Clinton. Of course, I'm assuming the GOP guy (and it will be a guy) is going to be Jeb Bush or somebody like him.

[leveymg]

5. Even if there is no real primary fight the nominee may not be decided until the

Convention. The candidate may be drafted. I'm thinking Michelle.

[NYC_SKP]

9. OMG that would be something!

Michelle! Fine with me!

[leveymg]

12. Everybody has that same reaction. Let's do it!

DU was made for this sort of thing.

[Agschmid]

31. Not everyone... count me out.

[leveymg]

37. Are you a committed Hillary supporter?

If so, that's entirely understandable. If not, interested to hear what your objection to a draft Michelle movement might be.

[Agschmid]

41. I'm not a committed Hillary supporter.

Michelle has little to no experience in comparison to alternate viable candidates.

[leveymg]

46. Do you acknowledge, then, that Michelle Obama would be a viable candidate?

As for her lack of federal government experience, please see my comment below.

[TheKentuckian]

44. I have no idea why such is desirable or why it wouldn't be really either. She has few public

positions on anything, no record, and it seems like desperately grasping for straws for a familiar face.

Corporate lawyer who hasn't practiced in like 20 years and border member for a Wally World supplier just doesn't seem like "draft" material.

Are we just grafting the President's positions onto her? If so why is that an Everything is Awesome moment?

[leveymg]

45. Let's put it this way, a lack of federal government baggage may be a political advantage

Witness "Governor" Reagan. Unlike Ronnie, however, I don't think anyone really doubts Michelle's basic intellectual fitness for the office.

If I could give Barack a third term, I would do so. Wouldn't you? Isn't this the next best thing?

[Agschmid]

48. "Governor" matters.

[TheKentuckian]

49. No, I wouldn't support a 3rd term and even if I did there is nothing indicating she would be or

wouldn't be either.

You are just glooming on to a familiar face and a name trying to catch lightening in a bottle.

"Basic intellectual fitness" isn't policy or worldview at all and describes tens of millions of Americans all over the ideological and philosophical spectrum.

[F4lconF16]

59. Nope, not everyone.

The last thing we need is a Clinton v. Bush v. Obama election. I would not support any of those candidates.

Not to mention there are far more qualified candidates than Michelle Obama.

[sharp_stick]

13. If you're going to dream

you might as well dream big.

[leveymg]

17. Got hope?

Still got it.

[sharp_stick]

18. Nothing wrong with that at all n/t

[leveymg]

20. Time to reprint those bumper stickers.

Still got mine affixed. I like my old car and haven't changed my political beliefs. Not ready for that kind of change.

[brooklynite]

47. Name the last time a candidate was drafted at the Convention...

...to do so is always exciting for political writers and pundits, but it's the kiss of death for the candidate. They have no time to raise the money they'll need, and no, it won't automatically travel over from the losing candidates.

[CreekDog]

8. do you envision this new 3rd/liberal party joining a coalition with Democrats?

to govern?

let's cut to that chase, shall we?

if the answer is no, then that's suicidal politics. count me out.

i have volunteered and donated to liberal candidates and Democrats all my adult life, but any third party that actively runs against the Democratic party, cannot get my support.

and if they can't get mine, game is over.

[CreekDog]

14. You didn't answer the question

Last edited Wed Mar 25, 2015, 11:47 PM - Edit history (1)

If individually, each party cannot attain a majority, but collectively, they could, should a new liberal party join a coalition with Democrats to govern or not?

It's a very simple question.

And if you haven't thought of that question, then why are you telling us what we need to do in the future?

[sendero]

51. If the Democrats you speak of..

.... are actual Democrats, such a deal is possible. If they are third way sellouts, it is not. Pretty fucking simple.

[TheKentuckian]

50. What 3rd party? The idea is to control this one making the blue dogs heel or failing that flushing

the Turd Way out by any and all means necessary.

[liberal_at_heart]

15. OMG. I am so damn tired of these threads and it's not even 2016 yet.

I think I just may have to put Hillary on my auto trash by keyword list.

[wilsonbooks]

16. but then again.....

Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time
Harry S Truman quote

[TampaAnimusVortex]

19. I don't even care...

If this election becomes another "Bush vs Clinton", I'm not participating.

I don't believe in royalty or family dynasties - and I don't care which side their on. If a country of 400 million people cant dig up some new blood for an election, then to hell with it. It deserves what it gets.

[CreekDog]

22. Ah, I see from your early posts that you joined to talk about guns

or rather, to talk against regulation of guns.

that does put your thoughts into perspective here.

(by the way, you're the second poster to wrongly say that the United States has 400 million people --since yesterday!)

imagine that!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026406979

[TampaAnimusVortex]

28. I love it when people so obviously dodge the issue...

It shows they have absolutely so substance behind them and have to start grabbing for other branches.

Look, if you want to blindly vote to support family dynasties... have at it. Enjoy! May you get exactly what you deserve.

[CreekDog]

29. Your credibility is the issue

if most of your posts started with gun issues and almost all your posts since have been about bitcoin, not really sure that you're here for the reasons this place exists.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

30. Yawn - Come back to me when you have something.

All I am hearing now is a lackey that supports the concept of royal families.

[CreekDog]

32. then what other Democrat or liberal have you posted in all your time at DU?

none that I can see.

in fact it appears that when you actually post regarding voting, you seem to suggest it's pointless.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

34. Still avoiding the issue eh?

I'm not sure why your so scared to actually deal with the topic at hand instead of trying to bring up 50 billion distractions. It's such an obvious debating tactic and really a sad one once the other side understands your trying to play it.

[CreekDog]

35. If you don't support Clinton, which Democrat or liberal would you like to become president

The OP is about who this party, who liberals should nominate, is that not an issue you care about?

[TampaAnimusVortex]

36. Any but her...

To be more clear - the most progressive that can win. As I mentioned, if it comes down to her and Bush, you can go win her the election yourself.

I don't vote for family dynasties, but your more than welcome to of course.

[CreekDog]

38. name one that you will vote for

and name one that you have voted for in recent elections.

[Agschmid]

33. Fail.

[Major Nikon]

43. Results...

On Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:18 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Your credibility is the issue
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6417241

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This person isn't arguing a point at all-- just implying, not so subtly, that the other poster is an infiltrator. It's cheap and slimy and it drives new posters away.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:27 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why coddle libertarian viewpoints and issues?

Plus this is a tit for tat alert. He said something rude and then the other guy did, and the he did again...
Why hide one without hiding the other?
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree that it is too specific to that DU member.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Seems a bit rude.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm thinking the alerter needs a nap
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster being responded to appears to be "asking" for this. Leave it.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: In the context of this sub-thread, this post should not need to be hidden.

[bigwillq]

53. I'll just vote for someone else

if it's Bush vs. Clinton.

We all have choices. If folks want to vote for Bush or Clinton, fine by me.
But I'm not voting for either one.
I live in CT. The DEM nominee is going to win my state with or without my vote.

[Comrade Grumpy]

56. I'm with you. I, too, have the luxury of having a conscience vote. I intend to use it.

I mean I live in a state that is not competitive in presidential elections.

[F4lconF16]

61. You and thousands, if not many millions, of other people.

Clinton running is the worst thing that can happen to the Democrats this election. She will depress the vote and strangle competition with money and the weight of the establishment behind her.

You've summed up what many of us here have been trying to tell establishment supporters. People are fed up. If Clinton runs, I think there is a very real chance we will lose. If she manages to scrape a win, it will only be an election or two after before we lose yet again.

Not to mention, of course, that her policies will mirror Obama's, except slightly rightward. i guarantee that will depress rhe vote even more in the next election. Of course, that's exactly what the elite in this country would love to see. Their grip on this country's future is tightening, and we don't have time for a candidate who won't change a thing.

[dolphinsandtuna]

21. I sent $100 to a group supporting Biden running

That's my max affordable contribution.

I have spent years voting for the lesser of two evils, as I noted in another thread. That just gets us a guaranteed evil. Hillary, besides having views I despise, is incompetent.

[Vincardog]

23. You know I am heading to Chicago to help Chuy defeat Rahmbo April 7. I will worry about HRC

when the primaries start.

[CreekDog]

24. I wish you well

Best wishes to Chuy and to Chicago!

[Gothmog]

25. I will support the Democratic Nominee no matter what

[NanceGreggs]

26. Excellent!

K & R'd!

[ALBliberal]

27. I tried to write just such a post yesterday. yours is so much more gracious than mine

Was. Thank you. The anti Hillary crowd needs to dial it down.

[Marr]

39. My advice to people who support Hillary's candidacy

Consider how many voters her nomination would alienate. Think about how many votes would be lost to Democrats who just won't vote for someone that far right. Don't blame voters.

I know you understand the concept, because it's implicitly made about right-wing Democrats all the time. Centrists constantly talk about candidates being 'too far left' to get votes, implying that their own 'moderate' brethren won't vote for Democrats they deem too far to their left.

[MrScorpio]

40. Damn skippy! nt

[RedCappedBandit]

42. Be a billionaire with the means to prop up your own candidate or shut up and vote for Hillary

k

[hrmjustin]

52. Thank you.

[Not Sure]

54. Simple. I don't vote for republicans.

Even if they dress up in a really convincing Democratic costume.

Not that it matters, since I live in Texas. But the fact that my vote (in any national election) doesn't matter emboldens me to vote my heart and my conscience. That means no to Hillary, as much as I respect the many positions she and I share. It's the positions we don't share that really count.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

55. I don't need any advice and I don't need to find a candidate

why would you assume that those who don't support Clinton would need anything from you? Non-support of Clinton has no prerequisites, and it's a mistake to think we're waiting for sage advice from supporters of a candidate we don't support.

[quadrature]

57. can HRC talk 'off the cuff' ?

it is easy to look good when
you are reading prepared remarks.

when was the last time that
HRC faced tough questions?
(the first Benghazi committee?)

when was the last time she
answered tough questions?
(2008?, maybe before that?)

speaking at a staged pep rally,
is not practice for a debate.

[herding cats]

58. Well said.

You pretty much nailed my sentiments on the topic.

Get to work, there's time yet to get a candidate in you support. In all honesty, people who passionately oppose Hillary Clinton as a candidate should have been working toward this goal for the past few years, but there's still time! It can be done.

[hobbit709]

60. My advice to people who tell me to vote for the Anointed One or the world will end

"I've heard this before"

[99Forever]

62. Since I've already been told...

.. in no uncertain terms, that those I WOULD vote for, either will not be running or can't possibly, no fucking way EVER stand a chance, I guess my opinion isn't worth even putting forward. I will offer this, I will not under any circumstances hold my nose and vote for some corporate shill just because the republican is slightly worse. PERIOD. Hate me, throw out of the club, I don't care, I have really had my fill of "pragmatic Democrats" and their games.