Disgusting! pure discusting disrepspect!

[liberal N proud]

A photographer named Matthew Munson took several photos during a recent visit to Washington, D.C., and one in particular is stirring up conversation about American history, parenting, and respect.

Munson shared his photos to Facebook, and there's some standard DC fare—that obelisk called the Washington Monument, some military memorials.

But one of Munson's memorial photos speaks volumes without making a sound.

It's an image of the Vietnam Women's Memorial, which serves to honor the women who served during the U.S. war with Vietnam, from 1955 to 1975. Atop this statue is a young girl using it like playground equipment. On the ground, another young girl appears to be climbing up. All this as a military veteran in a wheelchair, presumably escorted by family members, goes by.

The man pushing the veteran's wheelchair has a look of palpable disgust. The veteran himself has an unplaceable, one-of-a-kind look that hardly suggests pleasant thoughts. And Munson's Internet audience, chiming in with their comments on this particular photo, are similarly disappointed.

"Obviously, these kids have no veterans in their family, and their parents have absolutely NO IDEA what it means to sacrifice ALL for your country! Dispicable on the parent's behalf."

"Holy hell! Maybe afterwards the parents could take their kids on a nice tomato throwing spree at a cathedral. Please understand, I'm not blaming the kids."

"There is no respect taught to children anymore? That is the shame on the parents."

http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/kids-climbing-vietnam-memorial/?fb_action_ids=458975397589470&fb_action_types=og.shares

https://www.facebook.com/306894639508269/photos/pcb.345633928967673/345631322301267/?type=1

[Man from Pickens]

1. kids too young to understand that

they're just being kids - can I play on it? Yes? Here I come!

[DetlefK]

10. That's why kids need parents to have stuff explained to them.

What's next? Painting on tombstones with crayons? "Hey, they are just kids! They don't know better!"

[Man from Pickens]

61. Parents?

Kids don't have parents anymore, they got "baby mama" and "baby daddy".

Something like 40% of kids these days are born out of wedlock, and when you factor in divorce rates probably 75% of them don't have two parents anymore, leaving one (overwhelmed) parent. Then figure in the number of those parents who themselves weren't raised right, and it would be a miracle if more than 1 in 10 kids that play on that statue were actually stopped by a parent and taught about respect.

[susanna]

133. Reminds me of something...

A couple of years ago, in the Devil's Den site at Gettysburg, my husband and I came across chalk writing (children's) all over the boulders that make up the site. I called Park security to notify them, don't know what happened, or if they found out who did it. But the young writer's name was Emily, evidently, as she wrote it all over the place in multiple colors. Can't imagine any parent thinking that is appropriate behavior, but there it was...

[Puglover]

19. Yeah.

That's why God invented parents.

However upon reading this thread being a parent doesn't necessarily make one bright enough to teach one's children the difference between a piece of playground equipment and a statue that serves whatever purpose. Because you know....children.

[Duckhunter935]

2. Yes, I agree

[CBGLuthier]

3. I am not going to post it but whenever I think of Vietnam and children I think of that time America

burned a little girl with Napalm and she ran down the street screaming.

Fuck war and fuck war memorials. And in particular fuck every war America has been involved in since 1946.

[MADem]

6. Well, that is a "Fuck War" Memorial, if you want to get down to it.

It depicts a nurse aiding a wounded combatant, and another nurse looking for the helo to save more lives. If anything, that memorial is a reminder to the Stay-at-Homes of the rather vivid and unsavory cost of war.

I think the parents of those children need to get a clue. "Eloise, Petunia--get DOWN from there! RIGHT THIS MINUTE!!! That's not how we behave! Let me tell you what this statue represents..."

That, of course, would require that they look UP from their dumbphones and do a little parenting...

[strawberries]

28. I know the picture

you are talking about. I think it was in a magazine, but she was screaming and running down the street. Some images never leave your mind

[Snow Leopard]

58. that was a South Vietnamese attack, not American

n/t.

[daleanime]

79. And that makes a difference because?

[Snow Leopard]

132. just trying to correct the previous

posters misinformation <shrug>

[daleanime]

143. Then your saying it doesn't make a difference.....

[Snow Leopard]

158. um no

if someone else killed someone, but I said it was you that did it, the person is still dead yes, but there is a difference, you are not the one who should be blamed for it or used as some reference for another point.
sheesh

[daleanime]

159. Just trying to be correct....

[Blue_Tires]

119. She's still around -- She's an inspriational speaker today

[Skittles]

139. she's lovely

it felt great to read that she has found happiness

[ProdigalJunkMail]

4. this is why we have to put up signs

that make most people think, "why the hell do they need that sign? isn't it obvious?!?"

sP

[Fumesucker]

5. The real disrespect is by those who sent tens of thousands to die for a lie

Further disrespect shown by those who voted to go to war based on lies.

Compared to that some kids climbing on a piece of statuary is nothing.

[Enthusiast]

12. +1 an entire shit load.

[gratuitous]

17. Couldn't agree more

What's next? Complaining about the pigeons and what they do to statues? How unpleasant does one's life have to be to go that far out of the way to be "outraged"?

[KittyWampus]

30. the one doesn't negate the other. Your comment mirrors people who get annoyed

some DU'ers post about animal rights… because offenses against women, gays, blacks are so much more egregious.

[BlueCaliDem]

53. +1000. Fumesucker likes to play devil's advocate, though.

It's his specialty.

[Fumesucker]

64. Eh, I'm a vet and the picture didn't annoy me at all

On the other hand, those who send (mostly young) people off to die for lies both disgust and enrage me.

[get the red out]

96. Some get upset over women's rights being discussed

Unless it is women's rights in western society, no wait, that's women's rights everywhere that often don't matter.......

What people are missing is that people were sent to DIE in that useless war in Viet Nam, but shouldn't they be honored and remembered for being killed off for nothing? Should they get further dishonor than their country already gave them? The people whose brains ignite over the idea of this "war memorial" and attack anyone who thinks that decent behavior in public ought to be taught to kids are those who have knee-jerk reactions and lack depth of thought. It's like push a button and they explode.

[gratuitous]

127. I try not to discount people's annoyance

But being annoyed about people who advocate for the rights of animals, women, gays, and blacks differs significantly from being annoyed about people who advocate for the rights of a statue. Or a piece of cloth. Or a shiny piece of metal. At least, to my way of thinking.

[marble falls]

148. Its not as if the bronze'll be hurt by kids. Consider it a small sword being beaten into a plowshare

As a Viet Vet I'd like to think I at least fought for the right of kids to be kids.

I bet some people get tweeked by pigeons on these statues!

[Orrex]

54. Wow--that's really good.

I'm going to steal that for posting in the three dozen separate Facebook rants I'm likely to see in the next few days!

[immoderate]

152. Yeh. Kids like to climb. I don't see the problem.

--imm

[LiberalElite]

7. In the apartment development where I live

they set up a small memorial with American flag, flower plantings and a plaque in memory of a young resident who died on 9/11. They subsequently had to add a fence and sign stating PLEASE RESPECT MEMORIAL as kids were running all over it and even urinating on it. IMO some people just simply do not think and go around their day fairly unconscious to what's around them. They're too wrapped up in their own thoughts.

[Orrex]

8. I had a truly bizarro exchange about this on Facebook

A friend-of-a-friend, in his first post, concluded that these are DREAM Act children and likely future Obama voters.

Aside from the simple math idiocy involved in that statement, I was stunned by his baseless and irrelevant observations on race, and it took me a few minutes to believe that he wasn't being satirical.

Before it ended, he rolled out racist, homophobic and misogynistic insults, all the while crying "libel!" at anyone who dared suggest that he's racist, homophobic or misogynist.

Wacky shit.

[panader0]

22. "Likely future Obama voters"? Um.. no.

[Orrex]

25. Sure--they'll be the perfect age to vote during Obama's fifth term.

Doh!

[Krytan11c]

42. Ya know

A person that delusional may believe that Pres. Obama is planning on staying in office. Never underestimate stupidity.

[SummerSnow]

113. roflmao..I like that

[Mnpaul]

137. Here you go

All sorts of baggers crawling all over the memorials at Beck's Restoring Honor rally.
http://www.shutterstock.com/s/tea+party+politics/search.html?page=1&inline=59920852

[procon]

9. But... but... they said the war was to safeguard our American way of life

So what could be more appropriate than happy kids playing in a park on a statue that commeorates one of the best aspects of humanity? It's ironic that anyone would see that piece of art as a glorification of war.

[DiverDave]

11. Was at the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Harbor

and the screaming kids of oblivious parents had me steaming.
Running around yelling and just acting stupid.
The Japanese folks there were crying and throwing flowers in
the water.
The difference between the 2 was staggering.
I was in shock at the disrespect.

My feelings were of great sadness, all those boys, man.

[marble falls]

149. I'm a Navy vet and those kids don't bother me a bit. I'd rather hear kids happy and hopeful....

than just about ay other sound. I'm pretty emotional about the flag and the Arizona but it was us somber old folks that bring about the wasteful wars. Not kids.

[DiverDave]

151. It was the juxtposition of the

sorrowful Japanese folks and the sugar rush, yelling kids. It really was sickening. It's a memorial for pete's sake.
Not a goddamned playground.

[RobinA]

13. To Me

Last edited Thu Mar 26, 2015, 12:18 PM - Edit history (1)

this has nothing to do with war. Using statues, fountains and the like for playground equipment has always bothered me. It's essentially art work. Its job in life is to stand there and beautify, maybe signify something people find important and/or maybe commemorate something somebody thinks is important. Stay the hell off it.

I live in the Philadelphia area and this sort of thing is rampant here.

[Brickbat]

14. I'm not quite getting the level of outrage.

[Renew Deal]

15. Is it really OK to post pictures of kids for this purpose?

The parents are to blame, not the kids.

[Renew Deal]

68. So you're OK with adults on the internet attacking little kids?

[liberal N proud]

71. Parents are to blame, but what picture would you post to show the parents failure to parent?

[Renew Deal]

75. Blur faces

Or don't post any picture.

[Oktober]

85. What exactly is your concern?

[Renew Deal]

86. Adults attacking children on the internet.

[Oktober]

90. Why?

1) The children aren't suffering any actual harm.

2) If you think that a realization that folks are displeased with their actions is harm then I can't help you. Their actions are indeed inappropriate.

3) All could have been avoided by not climbing all over something that is not a toy.

[cwydro]

95. When I was a child,

my parents took me to Europe many times.

My mother would speak sharply if we so much as stepped on a grave in an ancient cemetery.

She told us it was disrespectful.

She was right.

[Renew Deal]

102. Adults attacking children on the internet is wrong.

1. Says you
2. "They deserve it"
3. Same thing that is said about rape victims.

[Oktober]

126. Well...

1. I do say....

2. Actions... Consequences... What a concept...

3. What the holy hell are you talking about? Was that some sort of vague attempt to ally your self with the 'anti-rape' crowd? Good for you. The rest of us are already there.

[Brickbat]

16. Also, if it *really* bothers them, how hard is it for any of those adults to say, "Hey, you need to

get down from there."

The veteran himself has an unplaceable, one-of-a-kind look that hardly suggests pleasant thoughts.

Meh, just looks like an old man who's tired of being out and about, to me.

[KittyWampus]

31. and the parents look up from their smartphones for a minute and get in your face

for reprimanding their precious snowflakes (who they were ignoring until you called them on their behavior).

[Brickbat]

32. If that puts people off from saying anything, then I can't believe they're really that concerned.

[jeff47]

36. We'll vacate your lawn presently. (nt)

[KittyWampus]

106. good, cause I've got some clouds to yell at and I don't need any distractions!

[jeff47]

107. LOL (nt)

[get the red out]

49. I agree!

It doesn't help these kids to not teach them how to behave in public places.

[csziggy]

144. Exactly - I've been yelled at by parents for asking kids to not stone wildlife

In a county park kids were throwing rocks at alligators and birds and I asked them to please not do that. A woman dashed over and got in my face, yelling at me to not tell her kids what to do. I told her it was illegal to harass wildlife and if she didn't ask her kids to not do it, I would get the park rangers to do so. She hustled those kids out of there so fast, she scratched off out of the parking lot!

What got me was she was standing next to a sign that told people to NOT bother the wildlife. Too bad they didn't piss of the larger gator that was sunning itself next to the path about a hundred feet farther down. That one may not have quietly gotten out of the kids' way.

[get the red out]

153. GOOD JOB

I agree. Most posters here have a special interest to protect in hating veterans because of WAR. So kids should not be taught anything, maybe because conservatives posted that they should, with bad remarks themselves.

Everybody is just knee-jerk anymore with EVERYTHING being politicized. It is sickening on both sides.

[Jenoch]

38. The veteran's son sure has a look of disgust on his face.

[uppityperson]

101. Except he is looking past the kids, in front of the kids, not at the kids. I wonder why he has that

look on his face, maybe it is windy? He's not looking at the kids though so to assume that is what his facial expression is from a millisecond slice of life is rather a huge assumption.

[Jenoch]

112. I don't know what you're looking at.

He has his head turned and is obviously looking at the memorial with two kids crawling and playing on it.

It's a rather small assumption. Re-read the posts on this thread.

[uppityperson]

114. I am looking at a man who is obviously looking past the kids since he is in front

of them and his head is not turned far enough to the side to be looking at them. His feet are in line with the girl with pink pants, yet his head is not turned directly to the side The older man in the wheelchair is even further in front of the kids and even more obviously not looking at them.

Geometry is a good thing to know. And just because others make an assumption based on a split second photo does not mean that assumption is correct. Logic is a skill which can be used properly or improperly.

[Jenoch]

116. You're wrong.

Look at his feet. He is still behind the girl in the pink tights. Besides that, it is obvious that he is pushing his father in the wheel chair and that he is moving. You're making a big assumption that his look of disgust is from something INSEEN on the photo when it is obvious too the vast majority of people who have seen this photo on this thread that he is reacting to seeing children playing on a monument.

[uppityperson]

118. Comparing the direction he is walking, his feet, the girl, he is not behind her. Poor logic again.

Poor logic in saying reality is proved by assumptions, even if those assumptions are held by a number of people.

Poor logic is also assuming it is his father in the wheelchair unless you know them or they told you.

I am not sure if it is a false assumption or poor logic that the girl has on pink tights when they seem more like pants.

Don't assume too much from a snapshot in time.

[Jenoch]

140. Look at the two men. It's obvious they are father

and son, they have the same mouth.

Of course the man's disgust is from seeing tbose girls. It does not matter where he is at within a foot or two. I make making my assumptions based on what the photo shows. You are making assumptions based on NOTHING visible in the photo.

Have a good night.

[uppityperson]

142. "It's obvious they are father View profile and son, they have the same mouth"? Oh kay.

You assume they are related when it could be son in law or unrelated people because you think the 2 differenmt mouths look the same, you assume they are showing disgust at the girls even though they are not looking at them. You assume all that based on what the photo shows, ignoring geometry and logic.

Oh kay.

Have a good evening yourself.

[get the red out]

50. Well, a person could easily get attacked

for daring to say a word to someone's kids. That's the it works now.

[Brickbat]

62. Then I guess people will have to nurse their outrage themselves.

[get the red out]

94. In other words no one can comment anywhere

because this is a war memorial? Or because parents can do no wrong?

Kids get injured when they learn to think everything is a play ground. Is that in their interest?

[Brickbat]

150. In other words, people should speak up if they have an issue.

[FSogol]

18. Where is the closest playground for the those kids to climb around on? When that guy in the

wheelchair was young, there were playgrounds everywhere. Now? No playgrounds. Someone might get hurt.

Build some places for kids to climb on and they won't have to climb on statues dedicated to poorly thought-out wars. Maybe we should stop having pointless wars altogether and build some more parks for kids to play in instead. Think about that, the next time people want to wag their fingers at some kids.

[onenote]

21. How would you feel about kids using the eternal flame at the JFK gravesite to make s'mores?

Just curious if there are lines that you think shouldn't be crossed and what they are.

And you can't seriously think that parents are bringing kids to climb on portions of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial because there is nowhere nearer for them to play? Have you ever been to DC? The mall has wide open spaces where kids can run around to their heart's content.

And if playground equipment is necessary, Hains Point has a very nice playground -- its less than ten minutes by car from the Vietnam War Memorial.

And if that's too far and your kids will simply lose it if they don't get to climb on something that very moment, the Einstein statue -- virtually across the street from the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, is famously used as a climbing location by young and old.

[FSogol]

26. Next time you are at the JFK grave, please note the railing (small chain), the guards, and the sign.

Arlington Cemetery is another good example. They have signs everywhere explaining what behavior is appropriate. All of those things are absent in the picture.

Yes, I live in the suburbs of DC. Playgrounds at Haines Point are nowhere near the Vietnam War Memorial.
Would I have let my kids climb there? No, but I won't chastise some kids who did. I'll put children above memorializing war any day.

Wonder what tomorrow's faux-outrage will be? Kids not sufficiently worshiping veterans is already done

[onenote]

39. I guess your definition of "nowhere near" and mine differ

Hains Point is less than three miles from the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. By car it takes less than ten minutes. And I still can't believe you think people take their kids to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial as a substitute for taking them to a playground.

And if you know DC, you know that there is another nice playground at Kalorama Park, also around two miles (and ten minutes by car) from the Vietnam Veterans Memorial

Are kids climbing on the statue a sign of the apocalypse? No. Is it evidence of clueless parents? Yes.

[FSogol]

40. C'Mon kids! The playground is 3 miles away!

We'll be there in about an hour.

[onenote]

45. YOu must drive really slow. Really really really slow.

[FSogol]

47. Not everyone in the city drives and if you have ever seen DC traffic, there is no such thing as a 10

minute trip.

[onenote]

55. I see DC traffic every single day, commuting downtown from Virginia and back.

I also play golf at East Potomac Park from time to time. It really doesn't take very long to get there.

And how did these folks get to the Vietnam Veterans MemoriaL? At some point they used a car, taxi, public transportation. If they were looking for a place for their kids to get some exercise, why stop at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial?

Oh, because that's not why they were there.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. DC has over 100 playgrounds in 68 square miles, a very spiffy one is less than half a mile from that

memorial. A bit different from 'No playgrounds. Someone might get hurt.'

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. "Now? No playgrounds. Someone might get hurt."

Oh, Lawd.

[FSogol]

84. I never mentioned race or class. Let ALL the kids play.

And you really don't need to lecture me about Latin culture. Mrs FSogol is from South America, making my kids 50% Latino. LOL at stating they aren't a monoculture and then broadbrushing like they are.



Without injecting race into it, you are still just wagging your finger at someone because their kids aren't playing the way you think they should. That static picture could be showing two kids getting off a statue because their parents are chiding them about climbing on a memorial. You have no way of telling, yet people want to get outraged about it.

PS. As a kid, I climbed every frick'n thing I could find.

[handmade34]

155. I also lament the lack

of playspace for kids in some cities but DC has lots of space, for kids to run and play, that are within walking distance of the Vietnam Women's Memorial…

Gravelly Point is a huge park
Roosevelt Island
The National Zoo and Rock Creek Park
even the many steps up to the WWII, Lincoln and Jefferson Memorials can be lots of fun without actually climbing on the monuments themselves…


I love DC and enjoy seeing the kids there, but not on the monuments themselves… I understand both sides of sentiments here but we all (including kids) should respect what personal meaning these monuments may hold for others...

[BellaLuna]

160. How about we teach children to behave in certain situations?

Is it ok for kids to climb the shelves in a grocery store? To climb over pews in a Church? Go to a neighbor's house and climb up a trellis? etc etc etc.

Can we just expect parents to teach their children some manners and common sense and not make freaking excuses of a million what-ifs when they don't.

NO ONE is blaming the kids but the parents lack of parenting here.

[FSogol]

161. You can tell from that picture that the parents didn't correct the kids?

The kids could be in the process of getting off the statue, because their parents corrected them. You have no way of knowing, but are willing to wag your finger disapprovingly at some parent, or babysitter, or whoever. Of course, you are perfect and your kids NEVER misbehaved and ALWAYS acted appropriately because of your superior parenting. So, pat yourself on the back for your good manners and keep criticizing others based on what you think you see. It is only common sense.

Spare us the fake outrage.

[BellaLuna]

162. Your the one who pulled the 'they need a playground' crap

so it is your outrage that needs to be spared.

[RedCappedBandit]

20. I'd rather see kids play than a need for more fucking war memorials. nt

[treestar]

23. Somebody is looking for an excuse to be offended

It appears that being offended is fun and people look for a chance to be victims of it.

Trying to spin up an outrage over this is ridiculous.

Did that photographer have to wait for an old man in a wheelchair to go by? He's lucky one did. And how does he know the old man is a veteran, and that his being in the wheelchair has anything to do with that?

Smells like a set-up.

[Rex]

37. Yep, a staged photo for maximum effect.

Thought the same thing.

[Fred Sanders]

51. New low for speculation....Wow. Someone can read five people's minds from one still photograph...impressive.

[treestar]

80. It's a message board

these things are up for discussion.

We don't have to agree in lock step with the presented viewpoint.

[uppityperson]

115. Seriously. How can anyone know what those people were thinking, or assume "disgust"?

I am glad you recognize the assumptions made about this moment in the life of these people are wrong.

[Oktober]

73. Use your eyeballs...

The man has his hat on...

He's a veteran...

[treestar]

78. But then he happens to come along just when kids are on that statue

It's of nurses, too, not real combat men.

[Oktober]

83. Sigh...

1) They are all in the same area

2) It is not outside the bounds of common sense that a man would want to see a memorial to women veterans. Maybe he had his ass saved by one back in the day

Those kids are doomed....

[Bluenorthwest]

117. 7,484 Women served in Vietnam, 83.5% were nurses. 8 of them died and one was killed in action.

Sounds pretty real to me.

[DashOneBravo]

138. Thank you

for pointing that out.

I was about to post something but you did a much better job.

[pintobean]

123. WW2 Sailor. USS Emmons. Hit by 5 kamikazes, almost simultaneously

USS EMMONS DD-457 / DMS-22

Emmons put into Boston 9 November 1944 for conversion to a high-speed minesweeper, and after Atlantic training and exercises in the Hawaiian Islands, entered Ulithi to stage for the invasion of Okinawa. Her squadron put to sea 19 March 1945 for the dangerous, vital task of clearing Okinawa's waters to let assault ships close the beaches for the landings on 1 April. She then took up picket duty, and on 6 April, during one of the first of the massive kamikaze attacks, was a target as she sailed with Rodman (DMS-21). One of the first planes to attack struck Rodman, and as Emmons circled the stricken ship to provide antiaircraft cover, both DMSs were overwhelmed by suicide-bent Japanese planes. Many were shot down, but Emmons was struck by five, almost simultaneously. One hit her fantail, the rest to starboard of her pilot house, of No. 3 gun mount on her waterline, aft, and the port side of her combat information center. Crippled and ablaze, with ammunition exploding wholesale, Emmons found damage control a desperate, losing struggle. That day her crew, who had already won the Navy Unit Commendation for Okinawa, lost 60 dead, 77 wounded. The rest had to abandon ship. Next day, the 7th, the hulk was sunk to prevent its falling into enemy hands.

In addition to her Navy Unit Commendation, Emmons received four battle stars for World War II service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Emmons_%28DD-457%29

[Oktober]

124. Nice...

I just wonder if we are so oblivious to our veterans that the most obvious signs are overlooked...

[Fred Sanders]

82. You are stepping all over the "Easy Outrage" button...some are going to object.

[earthside]

29. Very bad placement for this statue.

Why do you think most statues are put on pedestals?

If you are going to have a statue like that at ground level, then kids and squirrels are going to crawl on it, dogs are going to urinate on it, litter is going to get stuck on it, etc.

But anything to foment outrage these days, especially if the right-wing can use it to prove how much America has declined under 'Obama'.

[99Forever]

33. "Discusted" "

On noes!

[phil89]

34. It's a statue. Nothing more.

Stop with this emotional nonsense please. If people want to be upset they can read about the Mai Lai massacre.

[jeff47]

35. This is a really fucking stupid controversy.

What were we supposed to be fighting for? For kids to play happily. And there they are.

What is the great tragedy of all the soldiers who were killed in wars? That they were themselves "kids", losing out on all the joy in their futures. Joy like...playing.

Soldiers are not golden idols to be worshiped. They're people. We need to think of them like people in order to avoid using them as objects in stupid military "adventures".

[F4lconF16]

57. Exactly...

This is what the wars were supposed to be for. Were I a veteran who died in Vietnam (and I'm not, nor am I a veteran at all, so I realize I can't really say) I would be happy that my death was able to bring about a smile on a child's face. Maybe something good can come out of that war.

Good post.

[pintobean]

63. Good thing you told us you didn't die in Vietnam.

[Blue_Tires]

120. I'm reminded of this silliness from the archives:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021856648

[FSogol]

134. I think Skidmore said it best....

Honestly, don't we have a better way to use bandwith than
participate in whipped up outrage over a picture some idiot making a fool of herself? I'm so sick of seeing this thread. If you take personal offense with every idiotic stunt in the world, you never get anything done.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1899708

[tularetom]

41. Screw climate change and endless war, lets get pissed that some kids are climbing on a statue

With all the shit going on that people could have a hissy fit over, this seems awfully low on the outrage meter. But how about outrage over the need to even have a Vietnam Women's Memorial, or any kind of a Vietnam Memorial. How about some outrage at the fucking idiots who weren't smart enough to know when to get the hell out of Vietnam in the first place.

These kids don't know jack shit about Vietnam, it was over before they were born. Hell, it was over before their parents were born.

I'd be amazed if this wasn't all being blamed on Obama, or Islam, or gays, or Obama the gay Muslim.

[Greybnk48]

43. I did stuff like this as a kid

and disrespect never entered my mind. I was playing on a boring grown-up outing.

[onenote]

46. Which is why no one should blame the kids. But the parents? They should have put a stop to it.

[FSogol]

87. "They should have put a stop to it." How do you know they didn't?

[lumberjack_jeff]

44. They're kids, and it's a statue.

This fetishizing of war is a new phenomenon.

If our memorials to war and killing are sacrosanct and meant to not be touched, put a fence around it.

Fighting for our freedom to yell at the kids to stay off the lawn.

[liberal N proud]

110. It's now about war but rather those who served and those who died

And when do kids learn to have some control?

[get the red out]

48. Too bad those kids are being raised by idiots

It won't serve them well in the future.

[phil89]

52. Kids are playing.

There's nothing idiotic about allowing that. Let's stop the war fetish it's unbecoming.

[RobinA]

69. It's Not About War

It's about art work not being playground equipment! It's about respecting the people who want to look at the statue as it was made to be looked at. I won't come to a playground and tell kids to shut up because their laughter bothers me and parents won't bring their kids to the Mall to climb on the monuments I am trying to enjoy as monuments. Deal?

[get the red out]

93. War fetish?

That's a stretch!!!!!! People were FORCED to go to Viet Nam, can't those people get some remembrance?

And why is it ok for kids to do what they want, where they want, these days? Can parents not make kids behave in public? How is teaching acceptable behavior considered wrong?

Lets stop the OBSESSION with putting down anyone who would like for parents to control their kids just because this is a war memorial. It is completely false.

You are simply OBSESSED with making everything about WAR!!!! I've not got a war fetish, YOU DO.

[wheniwasincongress]

122. How can you tell

from one picture, that the kids weren't told to get off by their parents?

[get the red out]

147. They got there

And we're there long enough for a pic to get snapped. Parents need to watch their kids. Most people would be in favor of teaching good behavior to kids if this was some piece of public art and not a war memorial.

[janlyn]

56. This statue isn't about promoting war,

it's about people like my dad who were thrown into a totally unnecessary war, and doing the best they could to help their fellow humans.
That being said, my kids and grandkids would know better. They learned about compassion and respect from me.

[liberal N proud]

109. Exactly

So many here are taking the anti war stand and forgetting that so many still need to be recognized for going most against their will and serving.

I remember the fight to get the memorial, I also remember how many Vietnam vets were treated when they came home.

And it is the parents responsibility to teach their children!

[Snow Leopard]

59. Not cool at all.

That is my favourite monument in DC. Very powerful. Those parents are friggin idiots!

[Catherine Vincent]

60. I doubt those kids are the first to play on it. nt

[hunter]

66. I think I've seen more adults behaving inappropriately with these sorts of memorials.

The FDR and MLK memorials seem to bring out the worst.

[Oktober]

92. The FDR memorial is an eyesore...

... but it is still in good taste not to go climbing all over it.

[VScott]

67. Try that at the 'Tomb of the Unknowns' and see what happens.

[phil89]

99. Yes a marine will scream

At them like a lunatic. That's not a good thing. War fetishists need to let this worship of memorials go.

[VScott]

100. The Marines don't guard the Tomb of The Unknowns

The Army does...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_the_Unknowns#Tomb_Guards

And it's not simply a "memorial", it's a burial site.

[trumad]

70. Number one..

The parents could have had their backs turned briefly and the kids jumped on the statue.

If that's the case---then it's all on the kids and well...they're fucking kids.

This Vet is not offended by this because this vet cannot discern what has happened by one picture.

[olddots]

72. war memorials. what a concept .

Ever seen a peace memorial ?

This would be a nice planet if there were no humans .

[Action_Patrol]

98. For the record...

There's a Peace monument in front of the US Capitol on the West side.

[Autumn]

74. It's a statue... in a public place. Kids will climb on it and pigeons will shit on it.

[treestar]

77. Agreed

My dad grew up in a small town where they had a statue of William Penn they played around. If a parent tells a kid to get down, it's because they think the kid will fall and get hurt. Not because of the reason the statue is there.

[Autumn]

81. Kids will be kids. Statues and fountains are going to be used if they get the

chance. I see no sign saying keep off statue so I'm not getting the outrage. I have pictures of my kids when they were young on the Briargate Mustangs after they were put in.

[Logical]

130. Great point. There are about 5 million things worse than this. nt

[LiberalAndProud]

88. We are a species prone to idol worship, aren't we?

It's a statue and they're children. It's not about disrespect or lack of veneration. Seems the internet encourages us to get stirred up over the least significant and most petty tripe. I'll pass this time, thanks.

[matt819]

89. For crying out loud

They're kids. This is what kids do. How's this for an idea? Maybe that vet, or the guy pushing that vet, should take a minute to talk to those kids, to explain what that statue means to them? A teachable moment. Or they could tell the old guy to stuff it. Whatever. But ease up. There are other things to get enraged about. A hunk of bronze isn't one of those things.

You know, you have to wonder what DC or the artist had in mind in building and installing a very kid-accessible statue in a very public place. Who knows, maybe some kid playing there will some day think about it and become a nurse, or a doctor, or be an anti-war activist (for all the good that does).

Ease up. It's not like they were defacing it or pissing on it.

[liberal N proud]

105. And kids need to learn when they should behave

see my response below: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6418908

[matt819]

136. Doesn't work for me

Of course, this is one photo out of context. I don't know if this happens regularly or what the thinking was behind the design and placement of the statue. But as long as it is at ground level, this is what's going to happen.

[sammythecat]

91. Fence it. Don't blame the kids n/t

[get the red out]

97. I think people are blaming the parents

The parents are all grown up, one hopes. I don't think they have to be handled with care.

[liberal N proud]

104. Not blaming the kids, blaming the parents for allowing the kids to be little monsters

I have a brother who cares for his grandson and this child is a monster, he climbs on everything everywhere. There is no off switch and his mother or grandparents just sit there and don't say anything.

I have seen many kids the same way in public. We were out to dinner the other night and there were a couple of kids, two sisters maybe, that were running all around the restaurant and nearly causing the waiters to spill their hot plates. Children need to learn that there is a time to play and a time to be in control.

We would have never been allowed to do something like this, memorial or not but had we done it at a memorial, there would have been some kind of hell to pay.

[morningfog]

146. You lost me at monsters. It's a statue. Good god almighty.

Let kids be kids. I am glad they climbed all over it. It's just a war idol.

[My Good Babushka]

103. I've been thinking about this for a bit..

I think it is disrespectful. I wouldn't let my children climb on a memorial. But this photo itself is another kind of memorial.. or maybe an anti-memorial, about how the wars of the past are forgotten, and how we never learn anything from history. Maybe we don't live long enough to grow wise. By the time we grow wise, no one will listen to us.

[jeff47]

108. Perhaps we forget because we treat soldiers as statues to be revered

instead of treating them as people.

It's easy to send statues off to "die".

[Zorra]

111. Kids being kids. Proper response: Granma: "Hey kids ~ did you know you might hurt someone's

feelings by climbing on that statue?"

Kids: "No granma, why would it hurt someone's feelings?"

Granma: "Because the statue means something to people who had family that died in a war."

Kids: "Oh, sorry granma. We didn't mean to hurt anyone!"

And hopefully, someday the kids will ask.

"What's a war, granma?"

[wheniwasincongress]

121. Jesus Christ. They were not handed spray paint cans by their parents.

You might need to rearrange your priorities if this kind of thing infuriates you. Internet hive mind over stupid things. Get a life, etcetera. No one knows if the kid were told to get off the monument, but apparently everyone is assuming they weren't. A photo captured not even a split second and everyone knows what was going on?

Also let's work on our writing:

The man pushing the veteran's wheelchair has a look of palpable disgust. The veteran himself has an unplaceable, one-of-a-kind look that hardly suggests pleasant thoughts

Really?

[Logical]

129. I agree, more fake outrage! nt

[uppityperson]

125. Maybe their gram served in the war and they wanted to get closer to her.

[LuvLoogie]

128. They look like part of the sculpture.

It's a nice picture. I'm sure thousands of passers by touch and caress the figures every year. Would that the dead have one more chance to have a child climb on them and smear snot all over them.

The angry are unreconciled.

[Warpy]

131. Part of me wants to see it as a swords to ploughshares thing

but I know if it had been my kids, I'd have told them to knock it off.

[DashOneBravo]

141. Kid being kids

Does anyone know if they were left there to play or did the parents just turn around for 2 minutes? My kids could move pretty fast when they were that age.

I wouldn't let my children do that on a memorial, a piece of art or a tombstone.

I also can't stand the fake outrage (not here) over this.

[Omaha Steve]

145. "Tragedy at Winter Quarters"

I grew up in Florence. I saw kids playing on the base from time to time for years. At least it doesn't get covered with graffiti.

Tragedy at Winter Quarters

Size: 1/4 Life, 22", Bronze
Issue: 75

A companion piece to New Frontiers, A Tragedy at Winter Quarters is one of the most moving works of Avard Fairbanks. The monument stands near Omaha, Nebraska, at the Pioneer Mormon Cemetery. This work depicts a pioneer father and mother standing over the open grave of their child. Roughly 6000 Latter-Day Saints lost their lives while crossing the plains between 1846 and 1849. Three of the ancestors of Avard Fairbanks were buried at this cemetery. This monument stands as a memorial to those who experienced the tragedy at winter quarters.


http://www.historicflorence.org/PublicArt/TragedyX.php





Marta and I own the Graveyards of Omaha site. Another view and history. Marta got upset when her photos started showing up on find a grave and elsewhere without proper credit. So now her photos have a owners mark on them.

http://www.graveyardsofomaha.com/mormon_pioneer/mormon_history.html



Here you see the huge statue that dominates the cemetery, depicting a grieving Mormon couple as they stand over the grave of their child. The statue is very moving; even as a child I cried when I saw it. Nearly all the 600 graves in this cemetery are unmarked, and most are the graves of children, who were not hardy enough to live through the rough conditions, so strictly speaking there isn’t a lot to see in the cemetery itself.

According to a 1970 North Omaha Sun article by Mr. Gail Holmes, only 67 of the 5,000 people living at the Florence Winter Quarters in the winter of 1846-1847 are buried here. Most of the burials came from settlers living in the Florence area after the Mormons moved west. There have been virtually no burials in it since the early 1900’s. The last person buried there, in 1953, was given special permission by the Mormon Church, so that she could be buried with her family.

[Capt. Obvious]

154. Let's give him the Lindsey Stone treatment!

[Blue_Adept]

156. I hope those kids are fired

That's what we usually want when we're outraged, right? Someone fired?

Or maybe grandma should lose access to the kids if she can't teach them right from wrong.

[Javaman]

157. this is the world we live in now.

sadly.

moron parents.