Not ONE word from the POTUS period!

[Omaha Steve]

No denial that the WikiLeaks released TPP document is inaccurate, outdated, or a fraud.

Tea leaves say WikiLeaks hit the nail on the head.

OS

[daleanime]

1. And that is scary....

[WillTwain]

25. Time after time he let's us in on another secret - he is not one of the 99 percent.

[Cryptoad]

33. Im sure I will not agree with all elements,,,, but Obama will make,,,

the right deliberate decision for the best interest of the Nation as a whole.....

[lark]

37. Based on what actions?

Based on his speeches, when he's running for office and cares about the left? Once the campaigns are over, haven't you noticed how much he lists to the right? Notice how he slants the truth when talking about the trade agreements and never mentions the ugly things we saw in the WikkiLeaks documents?

I know it's probably painful, but face it, he's not on our side after all.

[WillTwain]

38. No Chance

He is a Rahm Emanual (spelling?) Democrat. He loves Larry Summers,too.

[Cryptoad]

43. What a Quantum Leap it is

when you realize that you are the only person in this world who shares your reality ----then and only then can you obtain any Wisdom. Otherwise one lives one's whole life unaware of their own ignorance.

[WillTwain]

47. Lemmings die in large numbers while eagles soar alone.

[WillTwain]

51. Are you really denying he endorsed Rhambo and Summers is a valued consultant - Really?

[Cryptoad]

70. Dont start making shit up on me, now

I have not mentioned Summers and Emmanuel .

You really thought Obama is a Progressive Democrat?
He is not, ,,,never has been, ,,, so don't be so surprised when he does things
that a Progressive would not do.

[WillTwain]

77. I never accused Obama of Being a progressive. He does not call himself one.

May have misinterpreted your comment. I think we are on the same team.

[bvar22]

92. In 2008, he ran as a Populist.

*Raise Taxes in the RICH

*Immediately "make EFCA (Card Check) the Law of the Land".

*Immediately re-negotiate NAFTA (and other trade deals)to protect American LABOR

*Put on comfortable shoes and walk the line with strikers

*Immediately Force GMO manufactures to label their products

*Raise the CAP on Social Security.

*Pledged to never cut Social Security, including the CPI or COLA.


Now THAT doesn't sound like a "Centrist" at all.
I have the video if you dispute any of my claims. (Please?)


Too bad he didn't actually DO any of those promises.

[appal_jack]

100. I think you should post this video every day.

Obama has more than 19 months left to keep these promises. Will he? I doubt it, but his feet should still be held to the fire for every one of them.

-app

[Cryptoad]

104. I said he never claimed to be a progressive.....

I said nothing about being a popuist,,,,

[WillTwain]

113. He did a spectacular job fighting his tail off to save unions in WI.

Sarcasm

[Cryptoad]

119. Why would expect him to do more than he did?

btw.... what exactly would you have had him do?

[WillTwain]

120. I think he should have gone to Wisconsin many times.

He is a popular guy that is good on the stump. My beef on Obama is his lack of effort. Like any president, their most powerful tool is the bully pulpit. Great presidents have always understood this and used it powerfully. The power of persuasion is strong. Bush used it to sell an illegal war. It works.

Generally speaking, since January of 2009, he should have been talking up unions every time he got behind a podium - every time. He actually has angered unions not aligned with them. Remember his EFCA promise?

If I had one word to describe his union support it would be disaster.

[bvar22]

129. Didn't he promise that wherever UNIONS are forbidden,

he would "put on his comfortable shoes" and walk the line with strikers?
That would have helped a lot.

Instead, he stayed at home in his house shoes watching it all on TV,
and hasn't come within two states wherever UNIONS are in trouble, and endorsed having the Democratic Convention in a Non-Union state.



UNIONS?.....What Unions?

[rhett o rick]

117. He isn't progressive and there is no reason to think the outcome will be "progressive". nm

[Cryptoad]

118. Agreed that he is not a Progressive Democrat.

But it sure seems that there is a bunch of people who whine about him breaking his progressive vows when in fact he has never proclaimed any........it woiuld be like me being mad because Dick Chaney has fallen off his Liberal Wagon.

[Dragonfli]

121. " breaking his progressive vows when in fact he has never proclaimed any." denial

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026423200#post92

He is not a progressive that is true, he is a center/right Democrat, but he did campaign using a progressive theme and making progressive promises. This was just pointed out to you a couple posts up. I understand if you left the room to get your glasses and I reposted the response link that you did not appear to see for your convenience.

[Cryptoad]

123. Sorry if I couldnt be here for you becon call,,,

but your link has nothing to do with anything I have said,,,,, nor anyting I have a comment on,,,,,,, If you really thought he was a progressive that says more about you than him. but it still doesn't change the fact he is not now and ever has been a progressive.

[Dragonfli]

126. It has everything to do with the quote of yours that I supplied

How you can completely deny that is beyond me, even when I apply it in the context of what I have read regarding clinical psychosis.

Your a very unusual person to discuss things with. Read the words of yours that I quoted and the post that completely blows your premise out of the water. It is so obvious that I doubt anybody reading this exchange will believe you are arguing in good faith, unless perhaps you simply cannot see the words that appear in this very discussion.

I was wrong about denial, your problem is way over the deep end past anything so trivial as denial.

[Cryptoad]

127. you are arguing with yourself.

I have no premise to "blow out of the water",,,,,,,, I just stated a matter of fact, Obama is not now or every has been a Progressive Democrat. He is a Liberal Democrat. While the two may share a sub set of values, they are not the same thing. ,,,,

[rhett o rick]

122. As a candidate he distanced himself from H. Clinton by pretending to be progressive.

As a Pres his views are close to H. Clinton's.

[Cryptoad]

124. May have prtended to be more Liberal than HRC

but I saw no signs of pretending to be more progressive. you only had to look at the people he surrounded himself with to realize that!

[rhett o rick]

130. His stand on transparency, closing GITMO and rolling back the Patriot Act were progressive. nm

[Cryptoad]

131. I see what your problem is now.....

you do not know what a Progressive Democrat is.........

[rhett o rick]

133. I will be glad to debate that with you.

A person isn't progressive if they support:

The Iraq War
Continued war in the Middle East
not cutting the defense budget
the Patriot Act
indefinite detention and rendition
being soft on torturers
an uncontrolled NSA/CIA Security State
Fracking
so called "Free" Trade Agreements like NAFTA and the TPP
rolling back Glass Steagall

How does that differ from your definition?

[Cryptoad]

134. I dont think they are either,,,

so tell me why you thought Obama was a Progressive..... because of what he said as a politician?,,,,, surely not? ,,,, surely you are old enough to know any politican will tell you anything they think you want to hear..... You can not make any judgements only inspect the fruit they bear.........

. I have not ever said he was a progressive... just the opposite,,,, he is not now nor have I ever thought he is a progressive so,,,, i have never expected him to behave as a Progressive then or now....

you are arguing with yourself......

[marym625]

103. It's amazing to me

How little the camaraderie with summers means to some people. People who refuse to open their eyes to all truths and not just the ones they like.

Summers is the mouthpiece for the money changers.

[bowens43]

80. ROFLMAO!!!!

[merrily]

101. ALEC and similar special interests are nto the nation as a whole.

[rhett o rick]

116. Not sure where you are getting that. So far we've seen zero indications of that. nm

[malthaussen]

49. I disagree, all he has demonstrated is that his sympathies do not lie with the 99%.

I seriously doubt the 1% thinks of him as a member.

-- Mal

[SusanCalvin]

110. That is a very good point

Just because you help them does not mean they will admit you to their club. Or that they won't snicker at you behind your back. Or maybe to your face.

[nikto]

108. No no no----He loves us, I KNOW he does!!!!

When he abuses us, he's just showing his LOVE for us.


He loves me! I just know he does!!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9cEHcyKnkoQ/TdqjhTZqzSI/AAAAAAAACPw/iY9gqVkgmqo/s1600/battered_woman_1_large_50+%25281%2529.jpg

[MisterP]

36. why? what are any of us gonna do about it?

[Dont call me Shirley]

53. Call your Senators, Representatives and Whitehouse to express your opposition to this global

corporate coup' d'états.

Whitehouse Comments: 202-456-1111

United States Capitol switchboard: 202-224-3121

Let's overwhelm the Congress and Whitehouse with calls, faxes and letters of opposition.

[djean111]

2. POTUS has already pretty much said we should sit down and shut up.

Obama has been really pushing for this, and Hillary helped architect it and has spoken out strongly for it, so I expect there will be silence until the Party can figure out which way to spin so that this does not affect support, popularity ratings, votes. And then we will have our resident TPP apologists (or whatever) telling us why we are not smart enough to even behold the document.

Interesting about the four year secret stuff - I would love to know which corporation, er, country, proposed what.

[OKNancy]

6. When did HRC speak out "strongly" for TPP?

Last I can search is 4 years ago. They were rather innocuous words... and she was acting on the President's behalf.

"Our goal for TPP is to create not just more growth, but better growth. We believe the TPP needs to include strong protections for workers, the environment, intellectual property, and innovation," Clinton said at the event in 2011. "It should also promote the free flow of information technology and the spread of green technology, as well as the coherence of our regulatory system and the efficiency of supply chains."

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Free_Trade.htm

[djean111]

7. To me, that is strong, if she was speaking to anyone in her capacity as SOS.

And if everything she did as SOS is just what Obama told her to do, if he micromanaged her, then, really, all she should get credit for is amassing so many air miles.

I agree, though, that what she said is meaningless pap.

[leftofcool]

9. So, according to you, Hillary should have been more like Dick Cheney?

Instead of taking her orders from POTUS?

[djean111]

10. No, that is a ridiculous charge and attempt to marginalize.

I am saying that we are told that Hillary is qualified to be president because of things like being SOS, and if all she did was what she was told, every step of the way, that is pretty weak sauce. Being SOS would reflect exactly nothing of herself.

[Bluenorthwest]

11. Sec of State is supposed to speak the administration's policies, not their own. That's the job.

The only autonomous action Hillary has on record with a trade agreement is her no vote on CAFTA in the Senate. And she did vote no. Which creates, if nothing else, some nuance to the discussion.
To skip that vote seems to leave out an important bit.

[Rex]

99. She is backing away from the TPP, despite anything years ago.

And I think Obama is fast tracking this monstrosity so he can kill it fast and without anyone being able to stop him. Of course people are saying that I am crazy for believing that, but hey not the first time I've been accused of that!

[ND-Dem]

106. you're saying he's fast tracking it in order to kill it? can you explain to me how that would

work?

[Buns_of_Fire]

107. Wouldn't THAT be something!

Picture: The President, after seeing the turn the negotiated agreement has taken, said to himself "no f*ckin' way", so he's pushing for fast track so he can administer the coup de gras personally (if the congresscritters don't do it first). Everything's been kept tightly under wraps, to allow public outrage to build, and he's giving Congress one last chance to Do The Right Thing.

And if they don't, he's prepared to leave office with one giant FU to the worthless eaters on Capitol Hill who've tormented him for lo these many years.

I don't really think that's what's happening, but the scenario appeals to my appreciation of a good double-cross and double-double-cross.

[leftofcool]

8. Could you please supply links that show where and how Hillary helped to architect the TPP?

[bunnies]

13. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101667554

[djean111]

15. Thanks. Thread-jacking and thread-burying usually does consist of demanding links.

[bunnies]

16. I knew Id be needing that link eventually.

[L0oniX]

75. You can always ask Woo ...has a store house of facts and links. Woo rocks the house.

[uponit7771]

19. That's a claim and not proof

[djean111]

21. You know what? It doesn't matter if you believe it. It really does not.

[uponit7771]

23. Doesn't matter if I believe a claim?! OK, I don't ... don't believe claims of WMDs or Hillary Clinto

... architects....

Proof is better than claim no?

tia

[bunnies]

39. Well... there seems to be no shortage of people making that claim.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026098862

I'm sure someone will ask her. Then you'll have your proof.

[Fairgo]

86. Why,that sounds reasonable...

Let's ask her. Let's ask them all. A quick checklist of yes and no for each point in this document.

[Android3.14]

48. I've heard similarly asinine responses to

Proof of climate change.

[uponit7771]

59. So a claim =proof?! Really?! FUD is working hard here no? tia

[L0oniX]

74. ...the day after his 2008 election. They can choose: Money or my vote. They won't get both from me.

[GoneFishin]

3. They are trying to bury it's existence. They know a denial from POTUS would make it newsworthy.

Currently only political news junkies know about it because the M$M has a TPP blackout. A denial from POTUS might bring it out into the daylight.

[2banon]

55. Bingo! Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.

[appalachiablue]

85. True, hide for now, wait to get the buy-partisan TPP passed to spread more to the 1% and to

the stock ownership and investor class.

[GoneFishin]

93. "Buy-partisan". I don't know if that was on purpose, but it fits perfectly. nt

[appalachiablue]

94. In the context of this discussion it's ok. A real duzy the TPP-

[geek tragedy]

4. The President doesn't acknowledge wikileaks stuff in general

That doesn't mean this isn't legit, just probably not something we should try to interpret for meaning

The admin's 'trust us' argument rings very hollow.

[Fumesucker]

5. Even more telling...

The Republicans, they who scream about everything Obama, have almost nothing to say about it...

Bipartisany goodness..

Yum.

[FiveGoodMen]

12. All that GOP fury directed at Obama is fake, IMO.

Just theater. They know they're all in this together; they just want us to think we have a chance until it's too late.

(Yes, the GOP voters are stupid, but the leaders are just evil. And that includes a WHOLE LOT of the Dems!)

[GoneFishin]

95. Probably. The left has been screwed so consistently by POTUS that when he finally

appeared to take a stand on Keystone XL and Net Neutrality I could not help but wonder what his game is. Now I am thinking that those will both be undone by TPP. There is no doubt that enormous profits hinge on those decisions and so would be ripe targets for the kangaroo tribunal under TPP.

[SusanCalvin]

111. I bet you're right

I'm learning more about machinations than I ever wanted to know.

[randome]

14. Only one part of a treaty currently in negotiations.

With everyone screaming "Fascism! Tragedy!" without understanding the full picture? Why on Earth would Obama make a statement about it?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is hockey Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]

[aspirant]

46. Because

he cares about the people and wants them to know the truth.

[SkyDaddy7]

52. +1

[woo me with science]

17. He is working to fast-track it. nt

[uponit7771]

18. He also hasn't commented on how much wood would a wood chuck chuck.....

.......

just sayin

[tridim]

20. Resident Obama bashers will be quite upset that Obama will not react to this BS.

As a non-Obama basher, I am proud that our President NEVER makes snap judgments about the conspiracy theory du jour. That is what stupid people do.

[Elwood P Dowd]

26. So you're calling all the DUers stupid who don't agree with free trade policies

that have cost millions of Americans their middle class jobs and turns governing our country over to a bunch of billionaire corporate crooks.

[tridim]

30. Nope.

I said Obama isn't stupid enough to take the bait.

[randome]

40. "...don't agree..." typically means arguing from an equal vantage point.

We don't have the full treaty to peruse. We don't have a full picture so how can anyone agree or disagree with something that's incomplete?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you think childhood is finished, maybe you didn't do it right the first time.
Start over.[/center][/font][hr]

[aspirant]

50. So

if the picture is incomplete, why doesn't Obama wait until it's final before speaking out on it?

[randome]

62. That's what I'm saying he's doing.

Other than in general terms, I don't think he's said much about this, has he?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[aspirant]

73. The People's employees

"general terms" are not informative, so why not up-to-date transparency?

[Omaha Steve]

28. Show me a post outside of TPP where I bash the POTUS

The BS is the DU ostriches on TPP.

[tridim]

31. You're not a resident Obama basher.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Omaha Steve]

34. Thanks

[uponit7771]

61. +1

[Dawgs]

65. How do you define "Obama basher"? n/t

[Skittles]

91. anyone who doesn't swoon over Obama 100% of the time

[SammyWinstonJack]

115. BINGO!

[L0oniX]

71. You can do your part by alerting on all bashers.

[Skittles]

90. PROSENSE is that you?

[GliderGuider]

22. This leak is a total mindfuck.

All our worst nightmares confirmed in a few pages of dry text.

[tridim]

24. You have nightmares about trade regulation?

Why?

[Zorra]

27. Why don't you try making a guess at it? nt

[tridim]

32. ODS?

[GliderGuider]

35. Did you mean OCD?

Because that is a condition I definitely do not have.

In trade regulation, who is supposed to regulate the trade? How do you see this document supporting that process?

[2banon]

57. Make that nightmares over Trade DE-regulations.

[MrMickeysMom]

112. You have no problem with a race to the bottom in the form of a trade agreement?

Or do you just prefer to put your hands over your ears and close your eyes while going, "Lah-lah-lah!"?

Seriously, what the fuck are you not reading?

[Cryptoad]

29. Hard to tell who is selling snake oil and who is buying,,,,,,,, nt

[ctsnowman]

41. K & R

Have a good one OS

[L0oniX]

42. Obama to his voters about TPP: "Fuck off !"

Last edited Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

Some people wanted to know what the leaders are doing.

[Agschmid]

58. Someone alerted...

[L0oniX]

63. Figures ...and I don't care anymore.

[Auggie]

66. Jury results:

On Fri Mar 27, 2015, 12:12 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Obama to his voters about TPP: "Fuck off !"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6424100

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Oh come on. This is ridiculously OTT, even by current DU standards

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Mar 27, 2015, 12:23 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Leave it. This board has been taken over by center-right a-holes who really need to go back to the republican party to spew their BS.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: We are being told that through their actions.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: In maybe any other policy matter (except extended/new war policy) I might vote to hide. But the TPP represents corporatism at its worse. The "negotiations" aren't transparent and couldn't be more counter to the election year promises Barak Obama made in 2008. I hate the very concept that this President is pushing the TPP and wish it wasn't true. Fuck off? Yeah, you bet.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is over the top, but I don't think it warrants an alert. Please leave it.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Can't really vote to hide it, sorry.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[L0oniX]

68. "This board has been taken over by center-right a-holes..." Luv Juror #1 & #4.

[awoke_in_2003]

82. I was juror #2...

it was a bullshit alert.

[Dawgs]

64. Seriously? I thought we were all adults.

[jalan48]

44. He can't say anything-it's against the law. Corporate law that is.

[MissDeeds]

45. Yep

Not surprised.

K&R

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. Thank you again whistleblowers. Especially those in prison or exile.

[woo me with science]

67. [phone]

Telling the truth is dangerous in the corrupt regime America has become.

[L0oniX]

69. They are the real patriots for the people.

[bigwillq]

88. ....

[Buzz Clik]

56. No shit! I sent a letter to the editor of our paper saying that Hillary murdered Vince Foster...

... and she didn't say a word.

GUILTY AS CHARGED!


(are you shitting me? have we really sunk to this level?)

[SomethingFishy]

79. You are comparing Democratic Complaints about the secrecy and fast tracking of the TPP

to Tea Baggers screaming that Vince Foster was murdered by Hillary Clinton?

Funny... really.

[Buzz Clik]

81. Not at all. I am saying, QUITE CLEARLY!, that a lack of response is not an admission of guilt.

Making such a claim is silly.

[salib]

128. He would not be denying guilt. He would simply be saying that the report has it wrong.

He (and most other officials) are quick to point out when the leakers should have mud on their faces.

They are generally silent when it is fairly accurate.

[uponit7771]

109. not on'y that look at all the recs

[awoke_in_2003]

60. we were promised

a transparent administration by the candidate. Our government is nothing but lackeys for the plutocracy

[appalachiablue]

72. Re Trade, Penny Pritzker, Hilton Hotel heir, now Secy. of Commerce, main donor to the Pres. campaign

from Chicago.

[Nye Bevan]

76. Wait.... anything that someone puts on the internet, that Obama does not expressly deny,

should be assumed to be true?

[appalachiablue]

78. The TPP= Toilet Paper Party AND Trans Pacific Partnership

Cuz we're being TP ed! but you'll love it, it's BUY- PARTISAN
Global, Corporate Control, Coup d'etat

[WillyT]

83. K & R !!!

[JoePhilly]

84. I'm still waiting for my birthday card!!

[bigwillq]

87. K and R

[Enthusiast]

89. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

[Thespian2]

96. K & R

[George II]

97. You really expect the President of the United States to address each and every rumor, "leak"....

.....fraud? He'd have no time to do anything else.

[Rex]

98. Well the TPP is supposed to be ultra secret right? So if he says anything

good or bad, it will validate that it exists etc..

OR he is purposely not saying anything for another reason entirely.

[marym625]

102. Oh no!

Don't you know if you disagree with the President, you must be a racist and only disagree because he is black?

So the TPP must be good!

I guess now I'm a misogynist because I don't like hillary.

Don't bother with facts or logic. No point in those.

Love you OS

[BlancheSplanchnik]

105. I'm glad it got released.

Shine that light!

[demwing]

114. If you wan't to keep something truly secret, don't define what it's NOT

Denials, cumulatively, are as revealing as admissions.

Or maybe WL nailed it.

ON EDIT: Or all of the above.

[pampango]

125. White House says it's been public since April 2012. They say that one is accurate, current and

genuine though is is apparent from the content that not much has been agreed to on this chapter.

... the document leaked Wednesday night shows the U.S. is pushing for language that would exempt “Buy American” laws from disputes under the chapter’s non-discrimination requirements.

"Perhaps the purported leak of the TPP investment text seems striking to some, but it provides very little that has not already been publicly available for years. The highly detailed U.S. model investment negotiating text has been publicly available on both the websites of the Office of the United States Trade Representative and the Department of State since the Obama Administration completed its multi-year review of the investment text in April 2012."

The leaked chapter also includes new language on corporate social responsibility and companies adopting international recognized standards, guidelines and principles governing good corporate behavior.

http://www.politico.com/morningtrade/0315/morningtrade17633.html?ml=ae_l

[woo me with science]

132. It is difficult for him to explain this:

TPP contains a provision for bailing out derivative losses. Is this what re-negotiating NAFTA means?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026430716