Please do not over react or react badly to so many of us

[uppityperson]

Last edited Fri Mar 27, 2015, 01:46 PM - Edit history (1)

Like after 9/11, the common desire after a human caused (or not) tragedy is to look for a precipitating reason to prevent it from happening again.

Unfortunately too often there is an over reaction causing pain and trouble for many other people. Like after 9/11. And I fear now.

By definition, people who kill others without cause, without needing to to save their own life, are mentally ill. Some have been treated for mental illness. Many have not. But most people with mental health issues are no danger to anyone.

Please. Please. Please.

Use this as an opportunity to open your minds, to learn about what mental health is and isn't. To recognize that we walk among you every day. That there are a huge number of people with mental health issues and only a teeny tiny fraction of us will EVER cause you or anyone trouble.

There are different types of mental health issues as well as different degrees. There are medications that help, and medications that cause problems.

We are here. And over there. We are all over.

Why do we not talk about our mental health? Why do you not know that we have sought help? Because we get that look. We get told we should not work in our professions. We get told to "suck it up, everyone has it hard". Or "you have such a good life, what do you have to be sad about"? Because it is better to be seen as quirky, or happy all the time, than depressed because if we acknowledge to others that we are depressed, too often we get passed over at work because how can you depend on someone who is depressed. Or how can you trust them? We get told anti-depressants are the devil and only always cause problems and anyone who takes them is denying that.

We are here. Please do not try and marginalize us, me, because a murderous asshole killed a plane load of people and happened to have mental health issues. The vast majority of us are just regular people. Like me.

Thank you.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Well said, my dear uppityperson...

[inanna]

2. Recommend!

[stillwaiting]

3. I often feel like those that are WELL-adjusted to the ridiculous society we live in...

... are the ones that have serious mental problems.

Those that struggle in the mentally disordered society we live in, very well may not struggle in a saner, more humanistic society.

[inanna]

5. Well said. n/t

[niyad]

7. I think you have an excellent point.

[stillwaiting]

13. I LOVE Erich Fromm's thinking on the matter.

http://www.academia.edu/2036472/Erich_Fromm_A_sane_society_Mental_health_in_an_insane_world

I find it so applicable to the world we live in.

It's interesting how he categorizes both communist and capitalist societies as insane.

I'd love to live in a more egalitarian and humanistic world where the capitalists and most CEO's would be the ones who are clearly and obviously seen as the mentally ill within society at large.

Edited to add:

[Dont call me Shirley]

22. Plus sixty-million!

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Aldous Huxley:

“The real hopeless victims of mental illness are to be found among those who appear to be most normal. Many of them are normal because they are so well adjusted to our mode of existence, because their human voice has been silenced so early in their lives, that they do not even struggle or suffer or develop symptoms as the neurotic does. They are normal not in what may be called the absolute sense of the word; they are normal only in relation to a profoundly abnormal society. Their perfect adjustment to that abnormal society is a measure of their mental sickness. These millions of abnormally normal people, living without fuss in a society to which, if they were fully human beings, they ought not to be adjusted.”

[Enthusiast]

39. Aldous Huxley was amazing.

[azmom]

25. Depression in the gifted

Other characteristics of gifted children and adults also predispose them to existential distress. Because brighter people are able to envision the possibilities of how things might be, they tend to be idealists. However, they are simultaneously able to see that the world falls short of their ideals. Unfortunately, these visionaries also recognize that their ability to make changes in the world is very limited. Because they are intense, these gifted individuals—both children and adults—keenly feel the disappointment and frustration that occurs when their ideals are not reached. They notice duplicity, pretense, arbitrariness, insincerities, and absurdities in society and in the behaviors of those around them.

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10554.aspx

[mountain grammy]

48. hear, hear!

[Rex]

49. Just thinking about that tonight! How some that have never known want or need

yet are not uber-well off...many are middle class and only had one job their entire lives. So hard to make 'normal' people understand sometimes how sick our society is toward the homeless and downtrodden. In many ways, they are the abnormal ones now currently in this society of predatory capitalism. Which is an illness all of it's own creation.

[Pooka Fey]

64. +1

[gwheezie]

4. Thank you

In the past few years I have seen all sorts of tragedy blamed on the mentally ill to deflect attention from other issues we don't want to deal with.

[Joe Chi Minh]

35. Very, very good point.

In this case, it strikes me that mental illness could by no means cover the degree of malice evinced by the perpetrator, the co-pilot, in this instance. Far from it.

Yet it seems to be that journalists can't rush swiftly enough to blame such malice on mental illness. I suppose it is at least a logical consequence of the relativism that holds sway over our lives today. Relativism is the belief that there is no divine arbiter of right and wrong. And since there is no divine arbiter of right and wrong, why, we must just make up our own morality, the thinking goes; no right or wrong, as such. To think otherwise is just unscientific, and extremely foolish. All our thoughts and decisions are just the product of inanimate matter, chunks of meat that we are: a bunch of molecules racing around. Some call it dirt-worship. To me, they are prophetic self-described 'meat-heads'.

I remember a program on British TV about a man with paranoid schizophrenia. He was so concerned at the thoughts that he might kill someone, that he kept asking (unsuccessfully) to be returned, at least for treatment, to the mental institution he'd been in.

He went to a department store and ran the blade of a knife across one of the female assistants' throats - the blunt edge. Now, I suspect that it was no accident that he used the blunt edge - it's not rocket science to use the sharp edge, but more importantly he had stated that he was torn. He did not want to harm anyone, but fought against voices and the impulse to kill someone.

Yet the reporter, surely highly educated, as they tend to be in the TV and journalism business, trying to dramatize it further, was confusing his schizophrenia with psychopathy, which is completely different. Apart from being total devoid of conscience - perhaps partly because of it - psychopaths tend to be extremely well-adjusted, and are masters at learning how normal individuals react in different situations.

They are so well adjusted seemingly in every way, and most people so loathe to believe ill of them, that there is a relatively very high percentage of psychopaths among CEOs of large corporations. Their white-collar violence is immeasurably more subtle and diffuse than the violence of the street-level physical killer. Of course, sometimes a a person might combine paranoid schizophrenia and psychopathy, but there was no reason to believe it in that instance.

[KMOD]

6. and me.

I developed severe sudden anxiety a few years ago. My husband thought I could just work through it. I couldn't. My doctor was able to help me feel myself again with help from a prescription.

[steve2470]

29. hugs from bro

[niyad]

8. k and r for this excellent OP

[Tom_Foolery]

9. What a beautiful statement...

Thank you!

[riqster]

10. Excellent OP.

[Roy Rolling]

11. Problem with the name

Okay, you've hit my soapbox issue. I have a son, graduated with two college degrees, functioning normally, who now is the victim of a grave and disabling brain disease.

Yes, a brain disease. There is no "MENTAL" in the anatomy textbooks. Brain diseases sometimes produce behavioral disorders (as do a few other diseases). But you can't treat MENTAL.

The word MENTAL conveys the disease a patient is afflicted with is "all in their head" and controllable by some act of will. That is not the case. Brain diseases most often have organic origins and all the willpower in the world (and medication) cannot control the symptoms.

So, one day an enlightened society will name such afflictions BRAIN DISEASE and not MENTAL ILLNESS, and refer to such patients in a more clinically accurate way.

[uppityperson]

12. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[fizzgig]

14. i also hate that it's call mental illness

and not recognized as the physical disorder that it is.

[Roy Rolling]

16. Well, that makes three of us

I guess we can call it a movement.

It's gotta start somewhere. The word "handicapped" was replaced in common usage by "disabled" a few years back. The same should happen for brain disease terminology. Being sloppy about the symptoms of brain disease is actually misleading, not just inaccurate.

[bvar22]

43. THanks, Roy....

This needed to be said.
I am an occasional offender.
I will keep your thoughts in mind before I do so again.

[Roy Rolling]

63. Thanks bvar

It seems the medical establishment is just now focusing on its shortcomings in this cluster of diseases. Ironically, over the years, advancements in pharmacology produced an over-reliance on medication solutions, but the plethora (yeah, I said it. Plethora. LOL) of medications led to another complex web of side-effects and drug interactions that the net result is a patient that is more or less sedated and without a life.

Focusing on the actual problem with clinically accurate and specific terms---brain disease---is an important step to understanding the root causes of these symptoms that rob too many gentle people---like uppity----of the dignity and state-of-the-art medical support they deserve.

[byronius]

18. I stand educated. Thank you.

[mopinko]

20. thank you. you beat me to it.

hammer, meet nail.

[Fairgo]

40. I'm with you

Language surrounding this topic is a mess, precipitated by deeply engrained stigma. For guidance, I turn to Self Advocates in the recovery movement. Never about us without us.

[Surya Gayatri]

15. I can only speak for myself. My intent in posting a couple of threads

about the German co-pilot's mental health status was to elucidate the present and tragic mystery.

Having undergone mental health treatment myself, I do not consider that illuminating the mental illness of the co-pilot equates to 'marginalizing' anyone with mental health issues on this forum.

As you so eloquently say, Uppityperson,
'the common desire after a human caused (or not) tragedy is to look for a precipitating reason to prevent it from happening again.'

[kcr]

50. The desire is understandable.

But merely illuminating the mental illness of the co-pilot as if that alone explains the tragedy and will somehow lead to the answer of prevention does marginalize, especially this early. How many mentally ill people have crashed a plane full of people into a mountain?

[Surya Gayatri]

53. The over-riding focus of both countries' investigations

Last edited Sat Mar 28, 2015, 06:43 AM - Edit history (1)

is now on Lubitz's health, mainly mental but also physical.

There was no intention to 'illuminate his mental illness' as the sole explanation of the tragedy.

His health record and background is now the major thrust of all investigations, and thats what the articles and OP reflect.

No one is saying that hundreds of pilots are at risk of having a psychotic episode and flying into a mountain. (ETA: have modified the expression 'going mental' to 'having psychotic episode')

BUT THIS ONE DID, AND IT IS ESSENTIAL TO FIND OUT WHY.

[Cooley Hurd]

54. "going mental"

Isn't that a term from the 1940's or something?

[Surya Gayatri]

55. It may have originated back then, but it's in current use in Britain...

[Cooley Hurd]

56. It's offensive here in the states...

...VERY offensive. Perhaps you might edit your post?

[Surya Gayatri]

57. OK, how about 'blow a fuse' as they say here in France...

[Cooley Hurd]

58. How about something less disparaging to those w/ Mental Illness?

[Surya Gayatri]

59. See original post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6426908

[Cooley Hurd]

60. Thanks!

[treestar]

62. such as?

I guess "going postal" is offensive in the US?

[uppityperson]

66. "had a breakdown" works much better than "went mental". Thanks for asking.

I appreciate your caring enough to ask.

[get the red out]

17. Excellent post

I have been worried about this too.

[ismnotwasm]

19. My immediate family has various issues

For instance, my brother has severe OCD. My sister has several things going on complicated by addiction. My mother had mental stress so strong she fell into a paranoid state (long story and she's ok now) my father had a personality disorder and alcoholism.

Aside from a 15 year fight with addiction--in remission for 25--I turned out ok.

In my job as a nurse, I'm often assigned the "difficult" patients. Because "I'm so good" with them. The truth is I have life experiance a whole lot of empathy, and I recognize that people suffering from mental conditions need proper care just like anybody else. In health care we are educated to this fact, yet I see that fly out the window because we just aren't that good at it. And we should be.

A great post.

[Roy Rolling]

65. Thanks

Caring healthcare professionals like yourself are often the people a patient has the most personal contact with. Giving your empathy to your patients is the highest service you can render. Let me say "thanks" for the many of your patients who are incapable.

[Dont call me Shirley]

21. uppityperson...

Psychosis, psychotic episodes, would be an accurate description for those who commit acts of violence against others. People with no diagnosed mental illness do experience episodes of psychosis where they harm or kill.

Having a child with bipolar, and myself with PTSD I know how lacking effective and affordable treatment is in this country. While we send millions to prison instead of using that money to research and implement safe and effective treatment programs.

I am lucky enough to have an amazing wonderful therapist who has helped me move forward a great distance. My tag line "commit acts of courageous self-honesty" is my mantra to my devotion and involvement with my own healing.

The rampant explosion of mental illness should be treated just as the rampant explosion of cancer and auto-immune diseases. They all come from the same origin, a human created system which advocates systemic violence and poisoning of our environment. We must end the lies of aggression and violence we have been taught. We must clear own minds of the hate poison in order to heal wholly as an individual and as a collective society.

[Daemonaquila]

24. It sucks that you feel the need to even say it.

In the case of the pilot, early evidence shows that his mental illness likely was involved in his decision to crash a plane. However, it's painfully dumb to use that to paint people with mental illness as some kind of danger to themselves or others. People can't seem to get it that broad generalizations don't work. And that sucks.

[hedgehog]

26. Here I thought that you were referring to general postings that get misinterpeted.

All I can say is

[MissDeeds]

27. So true

I have an elderly aunt who suffers from depression, but will not seek medical help for fear of being labeled "mentally ill". To her, the stigma is worse than the illness. It is so sad that there is not more awareness and understanding of this very common ailment.

K&R

[Spitfire of ATJ]

28. "look for a precipitating reason to prevent it from happening again."

Actually, that's not true.

The first reaction is to pin the blame on "The Other" and lash out.

[Fumesucker]

45. I think reactions are mixed but there's certainly scapegoating ...

[steve2470]

30. + a billion and...

I'd like to add that people with severe clinical depression with active suicidal ideation usually go off by themselves to die. They do NOT kill a plane load of other people, if that's indeed what occurred. Of course, we do not know all the facts right now.

Robin Williams' sad ending is the very typical scenario (albeit with a wide variety of methods). He died alone.

[truebluegreen]

31. Truth is, the "mentally ill" are no more prone to violence

than the general population.

Every day I miss my brother, who had schizophrenia, and who died 7 years ago of complications from lupus at the far-too-young age of 53. He was the kindest, gentlest, nicest person I have ever known, with never even a flicker of resentment about his lot in life, or a bad word to say about anyone else. He was generous, accepting, and forgiving, even of my father, who simply "couldn't handle" the whole situation....

I miss him every. day.

[F4lconF16]

32. Thank you.

[danclinger1000]

33. My heart goes out to the killer of all those people, too,

but I am saddened that this incident of mass murder is characterized as the act of illness. If it were a person of color, particularly from Islam, he would be reviled as a terrorist of the worst sort.

[sunnystarr]

42. Seriously??

First of all everyone is assuming this guy had clinical depression which is different than being depressed. I see him as a little twit who was spoiled and liked to have his own way. Who got depressed if he couldn't control the people in his world. One who had many episodes where he was making someone suffer by acting out. His girlfriend dumped him and he was going to make her pay by making his grand exit and giving her guilt for the rest of her life for those poor souls who were his victims. He was going to show her for rejecting him. His recent doctor visit wasn't for depression.

My heart can never go out to anyone who could sit there for 8 ... EIGHT MINUTES while the passengers were screaming and the pilot was trying to axe down that damn door. The unimaginable horror of it gives me the chills and I weep for the families who are faced with their loss. Not one body in tact.

[uppityperson]

47. Thank you for proving my point. You make a lot of assumptions based on very little fact

and are a good example of the reasons many do not discuss their mental health struggles.

[dolphinsandtuna]

61. 8 minutes

What confuses me is the news reports said the person outside with the code, which presumably the pilot had, could override and open the door after five minutes. Did he forget the code? panic?

[sunnystarr]

67. The code can be used right away

It's the pilot inside the cockpit who can override that.

A locked door is opened by a flight crew inside the cockpit but can also be unlocked by cabin crew entering a keycode from the outside. Crew inside the cockpit can manually override it to keep a door locked for up to five minutes.

...

“The situation raises a lot of questions and makes the processes in place seem inadequate ... if the person inside the cockpit decides to do something and prevent access by other people.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/26/germanwings-crash-safety-of-cockpit-doors-on-all-planes-questioned

If the pilot in the cockpit can override the keycode for up to 5 min then it seems like they could do it more than one time. It would be interesting to find out if that's the case.

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. K&R!

[Cooley Hurd]

36. An excellent OP worthy of a thousand recs.

[WillyT]

37. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[ColesCountyDem]

38. Thank you for saying it!

... Why do we not talk about our mental health? Why do you not know that we have sought help? Because we get that look. We get told we should not work in our professions. We get told to "suck it up, everyone has it hard". Or "you have such a good life, what do you have to be sad about"? Because it is better to be seen as quirky, or happy all the time, than depressed because if we acknowledge to others that we are depressed, too often we get passed over at work because how can you depend on someone who is depressed. Or how can you trust them? We get told anti-depressants are the devil and only always cause problems and anyone who takes them is denying that....

Precisely!

[Raine1967]

41. thank you. I cannot thank you enough.

I am deeply concerned about the things being said and you put it SO clearly.

[raven mad]

44. Beautifully stated, uppityperson.

+ 1 billion with deepest thanks.

[Liberal_in_LA]

46. kick

[Thinkingabout]

51. Mental health issues are overlooked and pushed to the back.

Suicides are difficult to deal with for those left behind. As explained at the service for son-in-law after a son and son-in-laws father in just a few years until you have had thoughts of suicide yourself you do not understand. To this day I do not deal with suicides well, it shakes your whole being, hard to explain. My heart goes out for every one connected with this, I wish them well.

[LeftOfWest]

52. Amazing post. Thank you.

Thank you for this, it is a true and amazing read and needed on every internet forum in the world this evening, and tomorrow and the next day.



Rosalynn Carter has always been a strong advocate for Mental Health.

Her platform when she was First Lady, I remember it well, was Mental Health. She talked about it.

I listened and looked around me and I learned.

http://www.cartercenter.org/health/mental_health/index.html



Regular people. Oh yes.

Thank you uppityperson.

Amazing important post here.