Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:09 PM
Jesus Malverde (10,274 posts)
Study links autism with circumcision
The circumcision of boys is controversial and hotly debated in many countries.
Advocates of circumcision point to cultural, religious, hygiene-related and medical reasons for the procedure, while opponents argue that it infringes on bodily rights and is a severe, painful assault on the individual which can lead to life-long physical and mental damage, with no relevant advantages to health. A study now pours a little more oil on the flames. According to the new study, which included 340,000 Danish boys, it looks as though circumcision increases the risk of developing autism. http://sciencenordic.com/study-links-autism-circumcision
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46 replies, 2328 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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Jesus Malverde | Mar 2015 | OP |
olddots | Mar 2015 | #1 | |
AngryAmish | Mar 2015 | #38 | |
Comrade Grumpy | Mar 2015 | #2 | |
elleng | Mar 2015 | #4 | |
RKP5637 | Mar 2015 | #3 | |
lumberjack_jeff | Mar 2015 | #8 | |
RKP5637 | Mar 2015 | #22 | |
hifiguy | Mar 2015 | #23 | |
jmowreader | Mar 2015 | #20 | |
Spider Jerusalem | Mar 2015 | #5 | |
Jesus Malverde | Mar 2015 | #6 | |
lumberjack_jeff | Mar 2015 | #12 | |
HereSince1628 | Mar 2015 | #26 | |
Zorra | Mar 2015 | #7 | |
Hekate | Mar 2015 | #9 | |
uppityperson | Mar 2015 | #17 | |
Hekate | Mar 2015 | #25 | |
uppityperson | Mar 2015 | #28 | |
Hekate | Mar 2015 | #29 | |
uppityperson | Mar 2015 | #32 | |
AnnieBW | Mar 2015 | #10 | |
steve2470 | Mar 2015 | #11 | |
hifiguy | Mar 2015 | #24 | |
LiberalEsto | Mar 2015 | #35 | |
Quackers | Mar 2015 | #13 | |
Fumesucker | Mar 2015 | #15 | |
uppityperson | Mar 2015 | #14 | |
MrScorpio | Mar 2015 | #16 | |
LiberalEsto | Mar 2015 | #37 | |
oregonjen | Mar 2015 | #18 | |
Chemisse | Mar 2015 | #34 | |
jwirr | Mar 2015 | #41 | |
dgibby | Mar 2015 | #44 | |
pnwmom | Mar 2015 | #45 | |
Igel | Mar 2015 | #43 | |
madinmaryland | Mar 2015 | #19 | |
Laffy Kat | Mar 2015 | #21 | |
hrmjustin | Mar 2015 | #27 | |
dembotoz | Mar 2015 | #30 | |
jwirr | Mar 2015 | #31 | |
Chemisse | Mar 2015 | #36 | |
jwirr | Mar 2015 | #40 | |
Hekate | Mar 2015 | #39 | |
hunter | Mar 2015 | #33 | |
beam me up scottie | Mar 2015 | #42 | |
pnwmom | Mar 2015 | #46 |
Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:13 PM
olddots (10,237 posts)
1. yikes
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Response to olddots (Reply #1)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 05:23 PM
AngryAmish (25,704 posts)
38. It will be like "King Kong v Godzilla"
It will bring all the boys to the yard.
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Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:17 PM
Comrade Grumpy (13,184 posts)
2. "Causality remains unproven."
Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #2)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:18 PM
elleng (123,912 posts)
4. Yes.
"The burning question is wether there is a causal relationship. In my opinion, there could easily be some other explanations for the connection found by the study," says Obel.
The professor points out that people who have their baby boys circumcised may differ from those who do not, and that these differences could relate to a predisposition to autism. |
Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:18 PM
RKP5637 (65,643 posts)
3. This, will likely be a very long contentious thread. I'm stocking up on
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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #3)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:23 PM
lumberjack_jeff (33,224 posts)
8. This thread needs more Olive Garden. n/t
Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #8)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:44 PM
RKP5637 (65,643 posts)
22. +1, n/t
Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #8)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:44 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
23. And a pit bull.
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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #3)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:39 PM
jmowreader (49,359 posts)
20. Go back to the store
You don't have enough. Trust me on this.
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Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:20 PM
Spider Jerusalem (21,786 posts)
5. That sounds like mistaking correlation for causation
circumcision is not common in Denmark....except among certain religious communities (Jews and Muslims). These tend to be religious communities which are traditionally not exogamous--there are high rates of cousin marriage between Muslims in many countries; Ashkenazi Jews, due to endogamous marriage and a historically small population, are all as genetically related as fourth or fifth cousins. So this hypothetical link of autism with circumcision is probably a proxy for something genetic in the Danish populations likely to practise circumcision.
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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #5)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:22 PM
Jesus Malverde (10,274 posts)
6. Great observation...nt
Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #5)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:25 PM
lumberjack_jeff (33,224 posts)
12. It could be due to a shared environmental cause. Maybe Lamb causes Autism? n/t
Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #5)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:47 PM
HereSince1628 (36,063 posts)
26. It's also a question of the over-design of sensitivity... sample size of 340,000???
On the simple 2x2 question of relating autism presence to circumcision presence that seems like an awfully large sample.
Having too much sensitivity leads to false positive associations. |
Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:23 PM
Zorra (27,670 posts)
7. Interesting study, in terms of circumcison being a trauma inducing event
altering development at a very young age.
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Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:24 PM
Hekate (83,976 posts)
9. Riiiight. Because there are so many autistic Jews and Arabs. Throughout history.
Good Lord.
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Response to uppityperson (Reply #17)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:46 PM
Hekate (83,976 posts)
25. In both of these Abrahamic religions, male circumcision is a religious requirement....
It is a sign of the covenant with God.
In the early Christian church, there was a heated argument over whether new Christians should first convert to Judaism and all its laws. Because Jesus was Jewish. However, it was decided that since Christianity represented a new covenant with God, conversion to the old covenant should not be required. Thus, not coincidentally, allowing the new religion to spread much more easily. Nonetheless, to this day, every newborn Jewish boy is circumcised on his 8th day. Catholics still celebrate the Feast of the Circumcision as a holy day in Jesus' life. |
Response to Hekate (Reply #25)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:51 PM
uppityperson (115,526 posts)
28. Thank you, I understand all that, was wondering about the autism crack.
Not sure what you meant by that. Thanks.
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Response to uppityperson (Reply #28)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:53 PM
Hekate (83,976 posts)
29. I was bein really, really sarcastic about the "study." nt
Response to Hekate (Reply #29)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:56 PM
uppityperson (115,526 posts)
32. Thank you, that is what I thought but am trying to clarify vs assume. nt
Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:24 PM
AnnieBW (9,417 posts)
10. There's a place that I could go with this, but...
As the wife of an Aspie, I'd better not.
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Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:25 PM
steve2470 (37,420 posts)
11. all we need now is moon bombing, chicken, Olive Garden, pit bulls and breast-feeding....
and we'll have the_longest_and_most_contentious_thread_in_DU_history!
![]() On a serious note, correlation anyone ? |
Response to steve2470 (Reply #11)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:45 PM
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
24. Nothing will ever,
EVER top the moon-bombing thread.
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Response to steve2470 (Reply #11)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 05:18 PM
LiberalEsto (22,845 posts)
35. Chemtrails! Don't forget those. nt
Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:27 PM
Quackers (2,256 posts)
13. I call BS on their study.
If circumcision caused autism, then why has autism rates increased while circumcision rates have decreased?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/07/circumcision-rate-drops_n_5107637.html http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/searching-for-answers/autism-rise |
Response to Quackers (Reply #13)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:29 PM
Fumesucker (45,851 posts)
15. As a hypothetical, much better diagnostic evaluations...
Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:29 PM
uppityperson (115,526 posts)
14. Correlation does not equal causation. Eating pickles before conception is linked with autism too
A majority of parents ate pickles in the year before they conceived children with autism.
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Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:32 PM
MrScorpio (73,512 posts)
16. Study links autism with studies...
Let's just get that out there in the open, shall we?
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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #16)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 05:19 PM
LiberalEsto (22,845 posts)
37. bingo!
You definitely raise a significant point.
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Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:35 PM
oregonjen (3,171 posts)
18. In the comments there was a link to another study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23656698
The use of acetaminophen as a pain killer in infants during circumcision, has shown an increase in autism. |
Response to oregonjen (Reply #18)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 05:02 PM
Chemisse (30,571 posts)
34. That is interesting.
And makes this study more comprehensible.
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Response to oregonjen (Reply #18)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 06:39 PM
jwirr (39,215 posts)
41. Now that sounds very reasonable. Most baby boys were circumcized before they were two weeks
old and that is very young to withstand the effects of any kind of medication IMO.
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Response to jwirr (Reply #41)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 07:49 PM
dgibby (9,474 posts)
44. No medication is used.
At least no medicine was being used when I was still in nursing (late '90's). Theoretically, it doesn't hurt(infants). Of course, that doesn't explain why they screamed through the entire procedure. If there's a correlation, it's probably pain induced (just my opinion).
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Response to dgibby (Reply #44)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 09:22 PM
pnwmom (107,957 posts)
45. They were giving local lidocaine in that time period. But I hadn't heard about Tylenol
being used then.
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Response to oregonjen (Reply #18)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 07:28 PM
Igel (33,683 posts)
43. Don't they teach simple stats to researchers?
I mean, this is the kind of thing where you start to wonder, "Gee, perhaps there's a confound!"
Maybe the drive to publish for fun and profit is so high that people figure it doesn't matter. "If it's bullshit, caveat emptor as long as my CV has another few lines." |
Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:36 PM
madinmaryland (64,338 posts)
19. I think this depends on eating at the Olive Garden in Manhattan, before having one.
Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:43 PM
Laffy Kat (15,673 posts)
21. Well...whatever...
So glad I didn't put my sons through it. I've always told them that if they wanted to be circumcised as adults, I would pay for it, but I'd rather the choice be theirs. They seem to like themselves the way they were born. Whew!
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Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:48 PM
hrmjustin (71,265 posts)
27. I knew a church that on the Feast of the Circumcision sang the hymn. ..
O Sacred Head Sore wounded.
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Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:53 PM
dembotoz (16,032 posts)
30. makes sense always told men think with their dicks
Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 04:54 PM
jwirr (39,215 posts)
31. It was not all that long ago when every boy child in the USA was circumsized. I wonder what the
rate of autism was back then. That was back in the 70s.
The trauma of being circumcised may have some effect but I don't believe it is actually circumcision. |
Response to jwirr (Reply #31)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 05:18 PM
Chemisse (30,571 posts)
36. I don't think they gave the babies any pain medicine in those days.
Especially since they claimed that babies didn't feel pain like we do. And if they had, it would have been aspirin, which is not used now in children.
Autism rates were low then (although it had barely been recognized back then, and many children were probably diagnosed with other disorders or not diagnosed at all in those days). I'm certainly not buying into this link (between circumcision and autism). Studies correlating things to autism are all over the place. But at least the pain medicine suggestion makes some sense. |
Response to Chemisse (Reply #36)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 06:36 PM
jwirr (39,215 posts)
40. I was about 10 years old and in the hospital for surgery. One day I heard this poor child screaming
and asked the nurse what was happening. She told me it was JUST a boy getting circumcised. I remember it as horrible. In that case I don't think they gave him anything before. But yes some kind of pain med makes more sense.
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Response to jwirr (Reply #31)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 05:24 PM
Hekate (83,976 posts)
39. My brothers were born in the late '40s - late '50s & they were....
It was considered good hygiene and modern up to date practice at one time in the US. My husband was born in Europe after the War, and as far as he is concerned in Europe it was and is still considered the ineradicable mark of the Jewish male and no one else. He's Jewish -- my family is not.
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Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 06:44 PM
beam me up scottie (57,349 posts)
42. Wow. You are one brave dude, Jesus.
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Response to Jesus Malverde (Original post)
Sat Mar 28, 2015, 09:23 PM
pnwmom (107,957 posts)
46. And yet in the US, circumcision rates have been falling while autism is rising. But I wouldn't
make a correction between those two things.
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