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Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
Fri May 4, 2012, 09:56 AM May 2012

Gundersen: Move south of equator if Unit 4 fuel pool goes dry

Like cesium from all 800 nuclear bombs ever dropped on Earth, except all at once (VIDEO)

Gundersen at ~25:00 in

There’s more cesium in that [Unit 4] fuel pool than in all 800 nuclear bombs exploded above ground…

But of course it would happen all at once.

It would certainly destroy Japan as a functioning country…

Move south of the equator if that ever happened, I think that’s probably the lesson there.

http://enenews.com/gundersen-move-south-equator-unit-4-fuel-pool-dry-lesson-like-cesium-all-800-nuclear-bombs-dropped-earth-except-all-video

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Gundersen: Move south of equator if Unit 4 fuel pool goes dry (Original Post) Generic Other May 2012 OP
Nuclear energy is the beginning of the end of civilization as we presently know it madokie May 2012 #1
What, you were against electricity too cheap to meter? Fumesucker May 2012 #2
We have it using hydroelectric in the PNWest Generic Other May 2012 #3
The Trojan reactor taught us Viva_La_Revolution May 2012 #4
Hydro is great where it's feasible.. Fumesucker May 2012 #13
Lots of hydro here in northeast Oklahoma madokie May 2012 #23
We have hydro, just not nearly enough for the development here.. Fumesucker May 2012 #24
We seem to be having a very mild spring/summer so far this year madokie May 2012 #29
mmm. I'm still waiting for them to take away my meter... nilram May 2012 #25
Thanks! This is more of the evidence I need while working on my political theory snooper2 May 2012 #5
I don't think you're getting the point flamingdem May 2012 #7
Gotcha... Anyway, this is just one more for the file.. snooper2 May 2012 #10
Lay it out Snoop flamingdem May 2012 #11
You don't publish a paper before you have all the evidence you need snooper2 May 2012 #12
Not a good idea flamingdem May 2012 #14
Also note that this thread is struggling to get recs flamingdem May 2012 #8
Note: my K & R L0oniX May 2012 #15
I think it is profoundly counterproductive for experts like Gundersen to make such remarks. snagglepuss May 2012 #33
A statement, true or false, sulphurdunn May 2012 #28
Asahi TV: “Unbelievable” If Unit 4 pool gets a crack from quake and leaks, it would be end for Tokyo flamingdem May 2012 #6
Can you believe we're still discussing this horrible issue... CoffeeCat May 2012 #30
Hi CC! flamingdem May 2012 #32
... SammyWinstonJack May 2012 #9
K & R L0oniX May 2012 #16
K & R MoreGOPoop May 2012 #17
I posted a story a few days ago about Saudis buying up African farmland.. Fumesucker May 2012 #18
K&R suffragette May 2012 #19
K&R. n/t DLevine May 2012 #20
On The Beach slackmaster May 2012 #21
Well I would expect so. There wasn't any cesium in any of those bombs 4th law of robotics May 2012 #22
it says "from all" paulk May 2012 #26
OK, so the title is factually incorrect. DCKit May 2012 #27
New link/missed it: Livestream of Press Conference on Fukushima Daiichi Disaster Today at 10 am EDT. proverbialwisdom May 2012 #31
I hope we can watch that later. nt bananas May 2012 #34
It's so hard to know what and who to believe these days Marrah_G May 2012 #35
You CAN eliminate all of these: bvar22 May 2012 #37
I don't have access to all the information mick063 May 2012 #38
I'll enjoy having California all to myself. hunter May 2012 #36

madokie

(51,076 posts)
1. Nuclear energy is the beginning of the end of civilization as we presently know it
Fri May 4, 2012, 09:59 AM
May 2012

I've been against it since I was a kid when they first started talking about it.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
3. We have it using hydroelectric in the PNWest
Fri May 4, 2012, 10:04 AM
May 2012

We even mothballed several half-finished new reactors in the 70s at great cost. At least one smart move in my lifetime!

madokie

(51,076 posts)
23. Lots of hydro here in northeast Oklahoma
Fri May 4, 2012, 11:42 AM
May 2012

More than enough to supply our needs locally

We stopped PSO from shoving one down our throats back in the 70s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Fox_Nuclear_Power_Plant

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
24. We have hydro, just not nearly enough for the development here..
Fri May 4, 2012, 11:45 AM
May 2012

Plus we're back in drought after pulling out of one just a couple of years ago, looks like a long hot dry summer on the way even now.


madokie

(51,076 posts)
29. We seem to be having a very mild spring/summer so far this year
Fri May 4, 2012, 12:54 PM
May 2012

our winter was a wash, hardly even needed a coat. Winter before last and last summer though were a whole different ballgame. Last summer we had 15 days where it was over 114 degrees in a row, hardly ever happens here.

nilram

(2,879 posts)
25. mmm. I'm still waiting for them to take away my meter...
Fri May 4, 2012, 11:57 AM
May 2012

But, yah, my sister in SC hates it when we compare electric bills. hehe.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
5. Thanks! This is more of the evidence I need while working on my political theory
Fri May 4, 2012, 10:21 AM
May 2012

See, as part of the political circle there is a point where the far left and the far right meet. It's really interesting actually.

Now to any jury that may be reading this, I am not promoting the shit fucker that is Alex Jones, but I am posting this video as more evidence to support my theory. Which is odd that I even need to make a note to any potential jury. If you watch, the EXACT same "information" presented by the far left on this nuclear incident is the exact same information coming from this far right nuttbagger. And thus the circle is always complete




flamingdem

(39,304 posts)
7. I don't think you're getting the point
Fri May 4, 2012, 10:30 AM
May 2012

The information is not getting into the news because people don't want to hear it.

It's not a left / right thing, plenty on the left have no time for the Fukushima story.

The crazies -- not the "right wing" -- like this guy Alex Jones use this kind of news to sell fear and sell their crap and websites.

They are not responsible and appeal to a tiny minority.

Others like Gundersen are beyond politics in that they are scientists and left / right is not their concern.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
10. Gotcha... Anyway, this is just one more for the file..
Fri May 4, 2012, 10:39 AM
May 2012

You don't think I would base my entire theory on one Alex Jones video right?

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
12. You don't publish a paper before you have all the evidence you need
Fri May 4, 2012, 10:41 AM
May 2012

Let me know if you are ever in Dallas though and maybe we can do an interview

flamingdem

(39,304 posts)
8. Also note that this thread is struggling to get recs
Fri May 4, 2012, 10:34 AM
May 2012

People do not want this story in their face when they can wank over any number of stupid news items.

Seriously, it's pathetic how the left, DU, has ignored this topic in favor of petty things simply because
people are too lazy to learn about the basics of the science involved.

As a group we should keep these stories alive simply because the pols like Hillary Clinton have swept
this under the carpet. The Obama haters should be all over it! At least that would be constructive.

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
33. I think it is profoundly counterproductive for experts like Gundersen to make such remarks.
Fri May 4, 2012, 02:21 PM
May 2012

If things are this bad, what is a lay person supposed to do? How will gaining a modicum of knowledge help? After the earthquake I spent weeks trying to inform myself about nuclear energy and I know more now than I did but those tidbits of knowledge don't help whatsoever in the light of what is happening now.

People feel overwhelmed.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
28. A statement, true or false,
Fri May 4, 2012, 12:41 PM
May 2012

bears no necessary relationship to the one making it. If the sky is blue, and both God and the Devil says they sky is blue or not blue, the sky is blue if it is blue and not if it isn't, not because they say it is or isn't.

flamingdem

(39,304 posts)
6. Asahi TV: “Unbelievable” If Unit 4 pool gets a crack from quake and leaks, it would be end for Tokyo
Fri May 4, 2012, 10:26 AM
May 2012
http://enenews.com/important-video-year-asahi-tv-unbelievable-unit-4-pool-crack-leaks-during-quake-be-tokyo-japan-expert-doesnt-be-large-quake-already-shaken-many-times-serious-problem


Published: March 10th, 2012 at 3:47 am ET
By ENENews
Email Article Email Article
261 comments
Share390



Title: Expert Warns: “If Unit 4 Collapsed, That Would Be the End”
Source: “Morning Bird” by TV Asahi
Uploaded by: tokyobrowntabby
Date Aired: Mar 8, 2012
Emphasis Added

Most discussion of the No. 4 spent fuel pool has focused on an earthquake causing the pool to collapse. This video is different because it reveals:

A crack, rather than the collapse of the pool itself, can be the end of Tokyo
The quake that could put a crack in the pool and be the end of Tokyo does not have to be a large one
The sense of shock when people in Japan are made aware of this information for the first time

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
30. Can you believe we're still discussing this horrible issue...
Fri May 4, 2012, 12:54 PM
May 2012

...as the media covers up the reality? I don't hear our leaders talking about this at all either.

Remember a year ago--when the EPA stopped testing for radiation markers? Did those tests resume? They initially
were finding radioactive isotopes in milk, strawberries, lettuce and in puddles and in the environment after the rain.
Then, they just stopped testing. It's been a year--where are the usual EPA tests that always happen?

This whole situation is just disgusting.

flamingdem

(39,304 posts)
32. Hi CC!
Fri May 4, 2012, 01:05 PM
May 2012

Well I avoided researching this topic for a while, now it's back in the news .. just as we suspected it's not great news!

I just listened to a forum where the speaker said: "There is no clean food left now, it's all contaminated to some degree".

The bright side of things is that the worst hasn't happened regarding Fuel Pool 4. Imagine what that could do to the
food supply, yeesh

MoreGOPoop

(417 posts)
17. K & R
Fri May 4, 2012, 11:08 AM
May 2012

This is precisely the reason for Our Owners' mad dash for the peoples' cash. They are using it to buy up aquifers and massive chunks of South American countries and to build arks and bunkers for themselves & their progeny.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
22. Well I would expect so. There wasn't any cesium in any of those bombs
Fri May 4, 2012, 11:40 AM
May 2012

it was created as a byproduct after the explosion. But the bombs themselves contained none. So technically a tenth of an ounce would be more than in all the bombs ever dropped.

 

DCKit

(18,541 posts)
27. OK, so the title is factually incorrect.
Fri May 4, 2012, 12:14 PM
May 2012

However, how many pounds of Plutonium or Uranium were ever dropped as bombs compared to the pounds of Pu and Ur sitting in those pools?

Radioactive cesium is an inevitable byproduct in the decay chain. Just one of many.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
31. New link/missed it: Livestream of Press Conference on Fukushima Daiichi Disaster Today at 10 am EDT.
Fri May 4, 2012, 12:55 PM
May 2012
http://www.psr.org/

Livestream of Press Conference on Fukushima Daiichi Disaster Today at 10 am EDT

Japanese nuclear scientist and Japanese and U.S. medical doctors discuss current radiological health conditions and concerns in Japan after the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear reactor catastrophe. PSR President Dr. Andy Kanter will speak about the need for accurate and timely information regarding exposure to radioactivity in order to protect and promote public health.

Watch the livestream here at 10 am EDT.



http://www.psr.org/news-events/events/press-conference-on-fukushima.html

[img][/img]

Press Conference on Fukushima Daiichi Disaster

May 4, 2012
New York City, New York


Japanese nuclear scientist and Japanese and U.S. medical doctors to discuss current radiological health conditions and concerns in Japan after the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear reactor catastrophe.

Time: 10:00 am - 11:00 am
Location: Rissho Kosei-kai, 320 East 39th Street (between First Ave. & Second Ave.)

A press conference about the on-going, rarely publicized, and still grave situation around the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear reactors, featuring a nuclear scientist from Japan, and first hand medical reports of clinical and on site observations in Japan related to the Fukushima radiological contamination. Discussion will include the immediate needs to protect Japanese citizens now living in contaminated areas, for better monitoring of radioactive content of food, and for the cessation of incineration and burying of radioactive tsunami rubble throughout Japan.

Featuring: Mr. Hiroaki Koide, Assistant Professor, Research Reactor Institute of Kyoto University, Japan; Dr. Junro Fuse, Internist, Japan; Dr. Ken Nakayama, Orthopedic Surgeon, Japan; Dr. Andrew S. Kanter, President, Physicians for Social Responsibility, USA; Kazko Kawai, Voices for Lively Spring, Japan; Mari Inoue, Human Rights Now, USA.

Media Interviews: To schedule media interviews after the event, please contact Kazko Kawai at 212-432-0705 or kazko@aol.com for interviews with Japanese speakers; or Alfred Meyer at 202-215-8208 or alfred.c.meyer@gmail.com for interviews with PSR speaker.

Details: Hosted from Japan by Voices for Lively Spring, Human Rights Now, and Physicians for Social Responsibility. Mr. Koide, the best-known nuclear scientist and concerned medical doctors from Japan and USA will share their experiences and speak about the on-going nuclear crisis in Fukushima. They will discuss the under-reported health consequences after the nuclear disaster, health risks resulting from inadequate food safety standards, and the environmental dispersion of radioactive materials by government burning of radioactive disaster debris. Voices for Lively Spring, a Japanese citizens’ group, Physicians for Social Responsibility, a U.S. NGO, and Human Rights Now, a Japanese international human rights NGO, feel that the international community is not adequately informed about the evolving “current status” and the remaining serious problems in Japan after the nuclear disaster. The nuclear scientist and medical doctors from Japan and US will be available for media interviews.

Background: A year after the nuclear disaster in Fukushima local communities in Japan continue to be exposed to radioactivity. Radioactive materials are still being released into the air, soil and ocean - from the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant. Many citizens still live in areas where the radiation level is dangerously high. The Japanese government continues to keep its citizens in harms’ way by applying a 20mSv per year standard to establish evacuation zones. Citizens in the rest of Japan also remain in danger of being exposed to unsafe levels of radiation due to widespread radiological contamination from the accident, food safety standards that are not strict enough to protect children, and the Japanese government continuing to burn and bury the radioactive disaster debris in municipalities across the nation.

Speakers:

Hiroaki Koide, Nuclear Reactor Specialist and Assistant Professor at Kyoto University Research Reactor Institute. After realizing in 1970 that nuclear power was extremely dangerous, Mr. Koide dedicated over 40 years of his career to educate the nuclear industry and the general public to stop nuclear reactors in Japan. After the nuclear disaster in Fukushima, he gained “rock star” status due to his tireless efforts in providing detailed analysis and honest suggestions to the Japanese community about the extent of the disaster. He will speak about the extremely dangerous conditions at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant, including the concerns regarding the damaged Unit 4 irradiated fuel pool.

Dr. Junro Fuse, Internist and head of Kosugi Medical Clinic near Tokyo, Japan. In June 2011, he started to use social media as the main tool to educate the general public on risks associated with radiation exposure. He will discuss unusual medical symptoms among their patients after the nuclear accidents, issues within the Japanese medical communities to protect citizens from the disaster, health risks in association to the burning of radioactive tsunami debris and his concerns with the current food safety standards in Japan.

Dr. Ken Nakayama, Orthopedic Surgeon from Japan. Following the 3/11 earthquake, he entered the exclusion zone in Fukushima for three days as a member of the government’s Disaster Medical Assistance Team to rescue patients abandoned at a hospital. In December 2011, he spoke in a press conference in Osaka along with Dr. Fuse in opposition to the government policy for incinerating tsunami rubbles across the country.

Dr. Andrew S. Kanter, President of the Board of Directors of Physicians for Social Responsibility, has studied radioactive plume projections from nuclear reactor accident scenarios and other public health impacts of nuclear radiation dispersion. He is the director of Health Information Systems/Medical Informatics for the Millennium Villages Project for the Earth Institute at Columbia University as well as an Asst. Prof. for Clinical Biomedical Informatics and Clinical Epidemiology at Columbia University. Will speak about the need for accurate and timely information regarding exposure to radioactivity in order to protect and promote public health.


Co-sponsoring organizations:

VOICES FOR LIVELY SPRING: Founded in December 2011, Voices for Lively Spring is a Japanese advocacy group for safe environment, working to save lives of Japanese people in the post-Fukushima era. It hosts seminars by renowned scientists and journalists in large cities between Tokyo and Osaka, and sends instructors to local study groups to teach a radiation protection course in Shizuoka Prefecture, which is Japan’s focal point of the radioactive debris issue at the moment.

PHYSICIANS FOR SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY: Physicians for Social Responsibility (PSR) is the largest physician-led organization in the U.S. working to prevent nuclear war and proliferation and to slow, stop and reverse global warming and toxic degradation of the environment.. PSR was founded in 1961 and succeeded in achieving the Limited Nuclear Test Ban Treaty that ended the global radioactive contamination produced by atmospheric nuclear bomb testing. PSR shared in the 1985 Nobel Peace Prize awarded to International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War (IPPNW), for building public pressure to end the nuclear arms race. Guided by the values of medicine and public health, PSR works to protect human life from the gravest threats to health and survival.

HUMAN RIGHTS NOW: Human Rights Now (HRN) is an international NGO based in Tokyo with more than 700 members, composed of lawyers, scholars and journalists. HRN dedicates itself to the protection and promotion of human rights. To raise awareness of the situation in Fukushima after the nuclear accident, HRN organized a human rights forum in March 2012 at the UN Church Center in conjunction with the 56th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women. Mothers and children who were evacuated from Fukushima spoke about the great and ongoing disruption of their lives. Our goal is to inform the international community about the ongoing crisis and advocate for the protection of communities in Japan.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
37. You CAN eliminate all of these:
Fri May 4, 2012, 04:59 PM
May 2012
"Relax, they are just venting a little steam.
I know "Science", and these plants are engineered to withstand Terrorist Attacks and Natural Disasters.
They have redundant backup systems.
They are so safe, that it perfectly OK to build them on active earthquake Faults next to Oceans & Fisheries!
Did I mention the I know "Science" and that if you are concerned, you are a stupid Henny-Penny Luddite!
Now run along, and let those of us who Know Science take care of everything."


I think we can eliminate all of those who pushed the above Ad Nauseum from the population of those we can trust.
 

mick063

(2,424 posts)
38. I don't have access to all the information
Fri May 4, 2012, 06:16 PM
May 2012

Last edited Fri May 4, 2012, 06:54 PM - Edit history (3)

Understand that we all are continuously bombarded by radiation. A large portion passes completely through us without any ill affect. We are comprised of mostly empty space. A difficult concept to wrap your head around.

There are many forms of radiation. The harmful versions are known as ionizing radiation. The process of stripping electrons from molecules.

With respect to radiological control, there are various aspects to consider depending on the event. Most concerns are easily addressed by distance from the source.

For example, fission will yield excess nuetrons that will be absorbed by other molecules in close proximity. These absorbed nuetrons will cause their new hosts to become radioactive. This is known as activation. Hence, the steel and concrete in the Fukishima storage basin is likely activated.

Another type of radiation is known as beta/gamma radiation (one is a particle, the other in the light spectrum) and is present because the fuel rods (primarily) are undergoing radioactive decay. This type of radiation travels a longer distance than nuetrons (smaller, less chance of collisions, no chance of absorption) and can penetrate dense objects. Still, with respect to Fukishima, an issue that is addressed by proximity. A person at 300 feet distance from the source should be relatively safe. Think of this exposure as similar to being shined upon by a spotlight. Not something you take internally, or other wise known as external dose.


The area of concern is contamination in the form of airborne particulate and the hazard is from some type of ingestion. Open wounds, smoking, inhalation, drinking, and eating are all forms of body entry. Some particulate will leave the body naturally. Mucus, urine, excretion, bleeding, etc.

Some isotopes are particularly difficult to excrete. Plutonium is in that category.

In summary, the affected individuals will primarily be the inhabitants of Japan. The closer to the source, the more likely the exposure.

I personally feel very safe here in North America and consider my biggest health risk (from Fukishima) would come from eating foods imported from Japan. I dislike sushi anyway.

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