Marijuana is not a single-issue issue.

[RadiationTherapy]

It is an issue that involves personal freedom, the environment, the economy. We are spending billions enforcing prohibition and losing unearned billions forbidding a hemp industry. We are still destroying trees for paper products and soil for cotton. Thousands of years and dreams vacuumed up into a prison system that uses prisoners as slave labor. Pharmaceutical and energy companies use toxic chemicals and methodologies to substitute for what pot and hemp can do.

So when you laugh and accuse anti-prohibitionists of being "Waahhhh! I want to get high!" single issue voters, you are certainly uninformed and the scope of your thinking on the matter is limited.

The issue of marijuana and its corollary concerns cuts to the heart of America, freedom, and intelligent policy.

[SammyWinstonJack]

1. rec

[cali]

2. by that measure just about all single issues aren't single issues.

[RadiationTherapy]

6. That's correct. Life and philosophy and industry and politics are all interconnected webs.

Hence I felt a need to correct a group of small-thinkers who regularly attempt to claim the marijuana issue as a minor one.

[Scuba]

13. In that sense, I agree with you, and I am one who criticized someone yesterday....

... for indicating he/she would withhold their vote from President Obama over cannabis. While I advocate for legalization, I think it is an error to withhold support over this set of issues.

Such an action could lead to a Republican victory, which does nothing for the legalization issue and wreaks havoc on a host of other issues.

[RadiationTherapy]

20. Yes, I also will vote for Obama despite his MJ philosophy

in an attempt to maintain other systems.

[Scuba]

21. +1

[freshwest]

38. +1

[RainDog]

33. I think that's the position for most people

regarding this subject and the elections.

so why alienate people who are already alienated?

[The Doctor.]

83. I'm curious about what Obama has said on the issue.

[Autumn]

3. I agree on all points.

This is an issue that is important to a lot of people. Thanks for fleshing it out.

[fuddyduddy]

4. REC, def. REC

Oh yes, I agree with you totally.

I want legalization of marijuana, then have it regulated and taxed like alcohol and cigarettes.

If some companies would also adapt their process for hemp, it would also save them millions of dollars, plus keep using renewables instead of using toxic processes.

It is a #1 cash crop for about 20 states
The rest is #2 cash crop.

Just does not make any sense to continue this prohibition. Marijuana is my women's rights (I'm a male) to me.

[DLevine]

5. Thank you. Well said. n/t

[treestar]

7. Yes it is

Every law tramples on our freedom in some way.

There are many drug laws. There are restrictions on alcohol and cold medicine.

This issue is minute and the attempt to use it to discredit the Democrats is downright pathetic. You think Republicans want to legalize drugs?

[RadiationTherapy]

8. This isn't a "legalize drugs" post.

Do you want to talk hemp too? Do you want to talk about oligarchical interference with the will and the word of the People?

[randome]

17. It will rapidly become a 'legalize drugs' thread.

It always does. Do you really think our economy is suffering because we don't have enough hemp products? Except for ridiculous incarceration levels, this is a minor issue.

The only thing that should be focused on regarding marijuana is to decriminalize it.

[Fumesucker]

22. Except for the ridiculous number of lives ruined, this is a minor issue.

[eggplant]

29. I agree.

It *is* a ridiculously low number.

[randome]

32. No argument here, either.

That too many people are being imprisoned over what should be a minor offense, at most.

[JackInGreen]

48. Can you explain the logic

behind why it should be any offense at all?

[randome]

57. I'm not on anyone's side on this issue.

But marijuana is still a mind-altering substance. Yes, so is alcohol and so, to a certain extent, is tobacco. But, again, we already have enough substances to make us 'high', regardless of whether or not Society has been logical about it all these years.

Alcohol and tobacco were well-established in Western civilization long before weed became popular. It may not be right and it may not be logical to exclude weed but there it is.

I do not want my daughters to ever experiment with drugs. They are doing fine with, of all things, writing and studying philosophy. Not bad for 14 year-olds at all.

There is no need to add another substance to the mix we already have. Smoking weed is still ingesting smoke into your lungs. It cannot be healthy.

Everyone has their own stories to tell about how marijuana just makes people more docile and that may be true but, hey, there are other ways to be docile besides getting high.

I am for decriminalization but not legalization.

[Bjorn Against]

59. You might want to double check your statement that marijuana has not been in use as long as alcohol

Marijuana has been in use for thousands of years, it was widely smoked at the time this country was founded and continued to be widely smoked through the nation's history. There were certainly eras in which its use dropped significantly, but there were other times when it was used extremely frequently. It was very popular during the 1800's in particular and it did not cause them any major problems.

The question is not whether or not marijuana is healthy, the question is whether its dangers are so severe that we should treat people who use it as criminals. There are many drugs you can buy over the counter that are far more dangerous than pot which has been in use for thousands of years and has never been shown to be directly responsible for a single death.

[randome]

67. I agree its use should not be criminalized.

I have never before heard that it was in wide use in the 1800s. You never see anyone smoking it in the westerns!

[roody]

66. You do not have to smoke mj

to ingest it.

[randome]

82. I am aware of that.

But if it was legalized, most people would choose to smoke it. And that's bad for your lungs and respiratory system, no matter how 'clean' the smoke is.

[Tsiyu]

84. You have no study to back up this claim

Number one.

Number Two: The NUMBER ONE issue of the election as it stands - barring any surprises - is the economy.

Congressmen are haggling over cutting the budgets of tiny programs that benefit disabled children and the elderly...Come the fuck on!

If you want to stop the bleeding in a body (using the analogy of a wounded body to describe the American economy), you find all the wounds. Putting bandaids on a few little weeping scrapes on the face without staunching the flow coming from the gaping wound in the torso is not going to save the life from bleeding out.

The steep economic toll resulting from zealous cannabis prohibition is the gaping wound in our economy that many professed non- drug users/authoritarian types pretend not to see in some vain effort to appear "all grown up."

[bluedigger]

11. Tell the 858,408 who were prosecuted for it in 2009 how minute an issue it is.

No, all laws do not trample on my freedom. Murder? Assault? Fraud?

"Police prosecuted 858,408 persons for marijuana violations in 2009, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The arrest total is the second highest ever reported by the FBI, and marks a 1.3 percent increase in the number of arrests reported in 2008 (847,864)."
http://blog.norml.org/2010/09/15/incarceration-nation-marijuana-arrests-for-year-2009-near-record-high/


Stop supporting repression in the name of public safety.


Many Republicans in Colorado do support legalization.

"The Democratic Party’s official support for legalization comes about a month after a slim majority — 56 percent — of Denver County Republicans voted to support Amendment 64, according to Mason Tvert, who’s leading the Campaign to Regulate Marijuana Like Alcohol. However, the position was not adopted because of the local party’s requirement of a two-thirds majority to change its platform."
http://blog.norml.org/2010/09/15/incarceration-nation-marijuana-arrests-for-year-2009-near-record-high/

Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

[Hissyspit]

25. Ask that student who got locked up and tortured for four days if he thinks this is

a minute issue.

Nancy Pelosi is using it to discredit Democrats?

People are holding Obama to standards just like he asked.

[randome]

31. 'Tortured'?

Where did that come from? Locked up and forgotten by some stupid DEA agents, yeah, but 'tortured'?

[obxhead]

36. Yes, I'm sure if that had happened to you

that you would still feel tortured was too strong a word.



Wear the shoes before you tell us how they fit.

[randome]

40. Hyperbole never helps a discussion.

That's the only point I was trying to make.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

47. drinking one's own urine to stay alive feels more like torture than hyperbole

[JackInGreen]

49. Not to continually counter you

But the state he was in when they finally remembered and released him I would say is equivilent to solitary without food or water. I don't know if it's listed in the field guide, but I think it constitutes torture.

[randome]

58. No umbrage is taken.

Maybe I'm just parsing the word here but 'torture' is usually meant as something deliberate, the same way that first degree murder is different from manslaughter.

It was a 'torturous' experience, no fricking doubt about that.

[Romulox]

41. You make it sound MORE macabre by trying to minimize it. This is a PERSON'S LIFE.

Not a laundry slip.

When one takes a person into custody, one takes FULL RESPONSIBILITY for that person's well-being. So yes, torture.
" Locked up and forgotten by some stupid DEA agents, yeah, but 'tortured'?"

[Hissyspit]

44. Um, yeah.

Unintentionally tortured.

[Aerows]

52. He spent 5 days in the hospital recovering

He had kidney failure and dehydration. He was about 24 hours away from death. That doesn't sound like hyperbole to call it torture to me AT ALL. It may not have been intentional, but what that young man suffered was torture.

[frylock]

61. you might want to read up on the effects of dehydration..

yes, torture.

[stupidicus]

62. right

and "restrictions" , age limits, etc, are "Just like" the criminal record and subsequent life-altering ramifications stemming from mere possession of maryjane.

Dems deserve to be discredited for being on board with the war on drugs -- the precursor to the equally phony "war on terror" and the police state we've been sliding into for the last few decades.

Drug prohibition is a failure. If you have the time or interest, why not share with the readers here the entire list of failures you support and are willing to overlook because it discredits in too large a measure it seems for comfort, those you think should be free of criticism or reprisal for their support for them.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

[MineralMan]

9. It's only a single issue if someone makes it one.

It should be legalized, as should most drugs. During this election year, it's not a major topic, though, for most people. President Obama, for example, is allowing his DOJ to raid MMJ outlets. That's not good. However, it's still not a major priority for most people, and the Republicans would be far less likely to change these policies in the next four years.

So, if someone makes the marijuana law enforcement issue their reason to not vote or to change their vote to some candidate who cannot be President, then it is a single issue issue for that person. We all have an issue or a few issues we feel very strongly about on a personal level. Not everyone shares the same feelings about those issues. National elections are about so much more than individual issues.

For this issue, I'd ask myself which of the two candidates for President who have a chance to win would be the more likely to change those policies in the next four years. That's how I'd decide.

[mike_c]

10. I live in Humboldt County, California...

... where, like much of northern California, the economy is largely based upon pot. I see marijuana legalization as a matter of economic justice and livelihood, in addition to the matters of personal freedom, revenue, and environmental responsibility that you raised. Marijuana is a central part of our communities here.

[Mosby]

26. the funny thing is that if weed is legalized

Those growers can kiss those insane prices goodbye so be careful what you wish for.

[mike_c]

28. oh yeah, we have a strong local contingent opposing legalization...

...for that very reason, but I think they are being short sighted. Still, self-interest will do that.

[KG]

12. big 'ol fuckin' Rec.

[Mnemosyne]

14. Hear, hear! K&R nt

[WheelWalker]

15. I couldn't agree with you more. My observation is that there are no "single issue" issues, only

"single issue" people.

[Javaman]

16. My reason for legalizing hemp...

has more to due with massive amounts of water it takes to grow cotton, than anything else.

Hemp uses less water.

and to group hemp in with the pot plant as a illegal drug is just down right stupid.

[Richard D]

34. Also . . .

Hemp needs a lot less in the way of chemical additives than does cotton, provides a more durable cloth, replaces wood pulp for (a better) paper, provides oil for fuel and food, the seeds are a good food (not at all psychoactive) and the oil is one of the best ones a person can consume.

They are separate but related issues. Hemp for food, paper, oil, fuel, is not psychoactive.

[Javaman]

43. perhaps when oil becomes less available...

those in power will come to their senses and look to hemp as a way to fill the gap for products that oil once provide.

The only time, it seems to me, things change for our "betterment" is when there is a profit to be made.

right now, we live in an age where stupidity is profitable. That will eventually change, but until it does, it appears to be a rising commodity.

[patrice]

18. Excellent framing!

[frylock]

19. k to the r

[Uncle Joe]

23. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, RadiationTherapy.

[Bennyboy]

24. Thank you! I am sure that this in backlash

to my thread earlier. It is not a single issue thing. It is a Debt, Freedom, prison/probation,recidivism, welfare, child support, oil and petroleum,plastic waste, medicine, healthcare, cancer issue.

[Egalitarian Thug]

27. +1 K&R. n/t

[RadiationTherapy]

30. I am not sure from where it is coming, but it sounds like

"yeah, yeah, you want to get high, we get it." and I find that disingenuous or misinformed at the least.

[fascisthunter]

60. I saw that....

...most folks are not single issue voters, at least on DU. Not sure why somebody felt the need to characterize it as just that, a single issue.

[felix_numinous]

35. Thank you RT

there are so many indicators that our infrastructure has been under assault, but the marijuana issue definitely is a nexus of all of them wrapped in one package. Because of this, it is a gateway toward cracking open the cage we are in so that we can then address each of the other issues in turn, or all at once.

By demanding accountability for the self serving prison industry, police and big pharma--along with cartels on all sides of the drug war who are directly profiting off of it--we can crack the stronghold these---criminals----have on our country. And do not mistake it--everyone who is abetting the cartels IS A CRIMINAL.

We have GOT to turn the tables on these people, and call out to everyone with a conscience to do something---even honest people who work in these institutions--we've got to stop enabling this insanity to go on. We are on the brink of a police state if we're not there already.

[Romulox]

37. People who say that are really saying they favor the War on Drugs. It's passive aggressive.

Many don't have the courage to come out and directly support the War on Drugs. So they do so with passive aggressive quips about how it is "no big deal" for cancer patients to be imprisoned for user doctor prescribed medication.

[Vidar]

39. K&R

[Dokkie]

42. Lets not forget

It is also a race issue. African American (dont know how much it affects other minority groups) area in Omaha is being devastated by this foolish war on drugs. There are shooting everyday in North Omaha from people fighting for prime selling turf. We also get shaft from the justice system who see more violent and dangerous and thus always should be locked away than our lighter skinned brethrens.

End the racist, expensive and destructive drug war NOW. Obama won because the talked positively about the possibility of legalizing or even stopping DEA raids of dispensaries and now this is what he is doing. Legalize MJ position will get him more votes and yet he decides to look the other way. That makes me wonder

[duhneece]

46. Thank you, Dokkie

The War on Drugs has been implemented in a racist way (check the high percentage of African Americans in prison or on probation/parole...and Hispanics).
Please read, "The New Jim Crow..." by Michelle Alexander and you will be amazed at how racist the WOD is at every level: arrests, convictions, prison time.
The War on Drugs is a war on people, especially minorities and the poor.
I think we need to follow something more like the Portugal model or the Swiss model on heroin: treat as we do alcohol and tobacco, not from a just legal perspective.

[RadiationTherapy]

53. I apologize for forgetting such a critical part of the picture. Dammit.

[Reptilublican]

45. That's about as sucienctly and efficiently as you can put it.

Thank you

[cynatnite]

50. Agreed, but it's not a make or break when it comes to supporting President Obama. n/t

[blackspade]

56. Definately not.

The OP in no way made this insinuation.

Obama winning makes it FAR more likely that there might be some positive policy changes.
Under the 'thugs, none at all.

[polichick]

77. He's still the lesser of evils - but he's definitely evil (corrupt) on this issue.

[intheflow]

51. Hear, hear!!

This is right on the money!

[blackspade]

54. +1000

The US drug policy has been uselessly draconian in its effort to prohibit drug use.
I really don't think that it is designed to lower drug usage; rather it is set up to extract free labor and capital from the American people for the benefit of the 1%.

[dhood8083]

55. I respect this opinion....

The reality is a black man in America will NEVER be able to legally carry pot, weed, sessy....PERIOD. That is MY opinion.

[crunch60]

63. Marinol, Big Pharms's Expensive drug with synthetic cannabis ingredients..

Health Insurance Lobby/Big Pharma involved in keeping Marijuana illegal- Obama does
not want to step on their toes. The Health Insurance/Pharmaceutical Lobby is very powerful in Washington.

Always follow the money! $$$-

MARINOL -- The SYNTHETIC CANNABIS:
#


# MARINOL IS EXPENSIVE, very expensive; In fact there is as much as a 100-to-1 cost ratio between the two. But don't take my word for it, do the math.

* If Legal, a pound of high-quality Medical Marijuana would cost (much less than) $100.oo, which is enough to create 400 Cigarettes.
* That 15 mg of Marinol, is the equivalent of one-half of a Cannabis cigarette. Therefore one pound of Cannabis = 800 medical doses, or the equivalent of 27,397-mg of Marinol.
* That 20 mg of legal Marinol can costs $1,050 per month or $12,500 per year.

Now at this point, do the rest of the math yourself, and Ought!


http://antiquecannabisbook.com/chap20/NewMarinol.htm

[polichick]

76. Thanks for that info.

[ProfessorGAC]

89. I Question The Integrity Of The Data In That Link

Costs are favorably skewed to make the point. I don't believe the price per pound of pot, and i don't believe the cost put on Marinol. I know people who are on it. They don't pay anything close to that amount, and they're not insured by a very comprehensive plan.

[Better Believe It]

64. K & R

[HuckleB]

65. This seems like it contains many logical fallacies.

At the end of the day, Marijuana should be legal, under regulation comparable to alcohol. Still, while some may feel they receive "medical" benefits from marijuana, that's really something that should be regulated far more. At the end of the day, it should be legal as a recreational drug, which would make it available to those who find it to have "medical" purposes.

Any other argument is just filled with holes, IMO.

[caseymoz]

68. Frankly, I think . . .

Last edited Sat May 5, 2012, 02:02 AM - Edit history (5)

. . . you'd probably make more headway with it if you kept it a single issue. Ever hear of overreach?

First, I'll make it clear. I'm pro-legalization, 100 percent. And its medical uses or its promise of environmental salvation make no difference in my point of view about whether it should be legalized. Does that ever occur to you? Yet, if I question one assurance about its benefits, pot activists get in my face.

Let's take this, composite, generic quote by activists, "Marijuana is going to solve so many problems. I know you're skeptical, but I'm going to keep insisting and talking louder and making more, irrelevant, implausible promises because making the tale taller will win over your already doubting mind to help get it legalized. Oh, and here's a ton of reading to do, and if you don't do it, I want you to know you're letting the world go down the drain." Wrong approach.

Take an example from alcohol. Do you know how many diseases alcohol was used to treat? That when it was first distilled its use was mainly considered medicinal? It was considered to have medicinal uses right up until Prohibition, and the Prohibitionists didn't care then (but left it legal for medicinal purposes, meaning lawmakers thought it more medically useful than now with marijuana).

It turns out all its medical uses were bullshit. People were just mistaken, but it's now legal anyway. Its lack of keeping its medical promise made no damn difference to its legal status since.

Try to learn from this. What are you doing wrong? One thing not to do is make promises about it. Anti-Prohibitionists didn't make any about alcohol prior to repeal. No matter how many guarantees you make about weed, you're not going to change the bedrock fact that its main use will always be recreational. Making further promises about it will always come off as looking like you're distracting from that major fact. Making more makes you look more desperate to hide it. Nothing is going to change with human psychology about that. Ever. Deal with it and stop complaining.

Almost every time I talk to a marijuana activist, I leave with my face in my palm. You'll never get it done at this rate. What's more, you and your fellow activists seem unable to do anything but repeat the same mistake.

I do get so tired of being talked down to by pot activists. And if I'm a non-user, friendly to your cause, and I feel like this, imagine what it's like for those unfriendly or indifferent to it.

[Tsiyu]

86. There are studies indicating some medical benefits

from moderate ingestion of alcohol.

There is a mammoth pile of evidence that cannabis relieves or minimizes the pain and other symptoms of various diseases and treatments.

Cannabis activists have changed laws in almost a third of the states.

The federal government - along with many judgmental, authoritarian voters - has its head up its ass on this issue.

Some are arguing for full legalization, as it should be. They want the War on a Plant ended completely. That is their right, whether it pesters you or not.

Others merely want the ability to use it as treatment legally and/or to grow it and/or hemp for industrial use. That's the least an intelligent society can do for the sick and for the farmer (considering we import all hemp products now and we allow pharmco to sell cannabisish shit), yet many defend criminalizing the sick and denying the farmer until the free access side frames the argument in such a way that you find personally acceptable.

How cruel and petty and self-absorbed can you get!

Land of the free doesn't cut it for you, I see, but you are the one who perhaps is missing the boat.

[caseymoz]

88. A third of the states, huh?

I'm not the only one who's made those points:

5 Pro-Marijuana Arguments That Aren't Helping by John Cheese

No, I'm not missing a boat. You know by 1978, 11 states had decriminalized marijuana? So, now in 34 years, we've undid the damage from having all those state laws rolled back and had a net gain of six more states. And by "changing the laws" you don't mean full decriminalization.

Not too much progress when I measure it like that. At that rate, you'll have it fully decriminalized 187 years. And if there's anything the marijuana movement has shown, that's the ability to take more than two steps back at any time. Pot advocates are their own second worst enemies, after the Federal Government and before the judgmental, authoritarian, assholes. Ask the pornography industry about judgmental, authoritarian, assholes. Porn is at least as much used as marijuana, and far more disdained. Yet, I think fewer purveyors go to jail than those for pot dealing. Hmm. Why does pot always lose out? Alcohol, porn. Seems there's many substances, fringe causes that do better legally than marijuana, that have just as many excuses, and have fewer advocates helping them.

It is simply obtuse to tell me about marijuana's medicinal effects. Did I offer any skepticism of that? No. The reason: I believe it has more medicinal value than alcohol, by far. Did you see that I said that? Probably, but you thought you'd put in the plug anyway, even though it was moot, and I told you so. Still, you could not resist it. Very predictable. So, why did you have to say things I told you would be ineffective?

All I said was, it's a poor selling point for your movement. I told you why. Instead of attacking me as a person and coming up with straw men, consider my argument.

Otherwise, I shouldn't have to repeat everything just to have you not get it again. You're going to say, oh, he doesn't believe marijuana isn't good for athletes' foot. I must tell him how it cures water on the knee, too.

How cruel and petty and self-absorbed can I be? Not at all. Step down from your lofty, over-aggrandized, self-absorption for a moment. You and your friends just make your cause impossible to help. Don't you and the rest of your movement ever get tired of the wrong approach? To judge by your post, no.

I try to give you good advice, and I get shit on. Typical. Maybe you consider it to be self-absorbed to not want to be treated badly by people in a movement I want to see succeed. If that's the side I'm supposed to be friends with, I'd never get around to facing the enemies. You'd have trouble dealing with the dilemma, too, and the condescension.

Enjoy the uphill battle for the next two centuries, then. The country will be enslaved and the planet will be a slagheap before you learn. I'd join you, but I just don't see that as productive.

[Tsiyu]

90. okay

[countryjake]

69. K&R!

[SunSeeker]

70. K&R

[limpyhobbler]

71. yep. nt

[lib2DaBone]

72. Election year donations are needed from the liquor Industry...

The least Mr. Obama can do is throw the Liquor industry a few bones... clamp down on Medical MJ in States where it is legal.

[trumad]

73. Let me be clear on my Waahhhh thread---one more time.

A couple of threads popped up indicating that support for Obama should be withheld because of his stance against Marijuana.

Support meaning votes.

The thread starter in one was tombstoned because in that very same thread, he advocated voting for a 3rd party candidate.

My Waahhhh thread went after that guy and others who spouted that bullshit.

My thread also indicated my displeasure at Obama's policy of shutting down Medical marijuana facilities, etc.

It was not meant to "laugh and accuse anti-prohibitionists of being "Waahhhh! I want to get high!" single issue voters",---- it was to meant to attack people advocating others to withhold support for our Democratic Candidate over this one issue.

There are many issues that are out there that are just as important that Obama does just fine on.... put Romney in the mix---and we're screwed.

[Fumesucker]

74. Imagine you had put up an OP saying Waaah! about anti choice, forced birth policies..

Craniums would have been a poppin' here on DU and your OP would have been lit up like a medium sized star with flames demanding your family jewels be sacrificed to the Earth Mother.

[trumad]

75. The thread was actually locked by a host...

but Skinner unlocked it because it did not violate TOS.

[Fumesucker]

78. Yes, I'm aware of that now..

That's why I didn't say a similar thread about forced birth would be locked, just flamed into an unrecognizable lump of smoldering carbon.

I actually thought your unlocked thread was a second one reworded or with links taken out, I didn't pay adequate attention to what was going on. Mea culpa.

On a lot of the crap going on in H&M I'm on your side bear in mind, nothing personal at all.

[stlsaxman]

79. "Imagine you put up an OP" all you want to but the fact remains...

that that "whaaaa" post was directly addressing a poster advocating a 3rd party vote be cast.

Sure, I recognized the snark in it and indulged in it myself but, if the 3rd party advocate had expanded his point to include industrial hemp and other nuances, then had not posted another OP titled "I'm going to see Ron Paul speak!", I may have given him more credence... trumad may have, as well... i don't know.

ON EDIT: I see y'all got this... i'll bow out now! (always hesitant to jump into a sub-thread for just this reason, sorry)

[Fumesucker]

80. I'd be interested in your opinion regarding an OP of mine..

How would the world be different if Obama had been busted for drugs?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002646575

[stlsaxman]

81. Welp- it would be hard to put it better than Bonobo did...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002646575#post12

and even harder to extrapolate/speculate on a "butterfly's wings" tangent. but i agree that Barack having been busted for pot as a youth would have lead to an entirely different world today.

Remember when Al Gore stood up at that VP(?) debate and said- "Okay, let's see who's smoked pot here... stand up if you have!?" Everyone laughed and he was the only one standing and the press fussed about it for a while but what it served to do was take the wind out of the sails of the opponents. I think Obama was watching and learned from that instant... getting all "youthful indiscretions" out there served the campaign well.

[Fumesucker]

87. Are people supposed to ignore the amazing level of hypocrisy and lack of self reflection?

Those clothes on the emperor are getting awfully transparent, people really are starting to take note of amount of skin showing..

[99Forever]

85. Very well put. Thank you. n/t