Thu Apr 2, 2015, 05:44 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
Guardian exposes Russian "troll center" where paid trolls spew Putin web propaganda.
Just after 9pm each day, a long line of workers files out of 55 Savushkina Street, a modern four-storey office complex with a small sign outside that reads “Business centre”. Having spent 12 hours in the building, the workers are replaced by another large group, who will work through the night.
The nondescript building has been identified as the headquarters of Russia’s “troll army”, where hundreds of paid bloggers work round the clock to flood Russian internet forums, social networks and the comments sections of western publications with remarks praising the president, Vladimir Putin, and raging at the depravity and injustice of the west. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house Shocking, right? Even DU has at times felt the slimy touch of that Lie Machine, not that it profited them anything. What surprises me is that the Putin regime still wastes time and money on such transparent garbage. It must be the mind-warping effects of being an isolated dictator surrounded by sycophants and a country he already succeeded in cutting off from the world. Who does he think is being persuaded by that nonsense - bad-grammar-filled ideological rants praising someone everyone outside of Russia loathes and demonizing pretty much every country on Earth other than Russia. The article mentions that it's mostly older Russians who are deceived due to lack of familiarity with the internet, but Putin is in trouble if that's his political foundation. Moreover, all he's succeeded in doing outside of Russia's borders is reminding everyone what a psychopath he is. It would be laughable if weren't also so unbelievably insulting, not to mention a desecration of the free speech enabled by the internet. It's as if people like that just can't help themselves - they absolutely have to shit on everything that's benign in the world, sabotage and corrupt every possible source of human enrichment. The internet is a pretty silly place a lot of the time, but individually-motivated trolls are merely a spice on an otherwise nourishing resource. But this kind of nationally-organized and funded troll army is an attack on the fundamental purpose of the internet, and all who believe in it.
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128 replies, 7618 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | OP |
R3druM | Apr 2015 | #1 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #3 | |
Turbineguy | Apr 2015 | #126 | |
stillwaiting | Apr 2015 | #5 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #7 | |
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin | Apr 2015 | #47 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #61 | |
leveymg | Apr 2015 | #86 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #90 | |
leveymg | Apr 2015 | #97 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #98 | |
leveymg | Apr 2015 | #102 | |
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin | Apr 2015 | #110 | |
ND-Dem | Apr 2015 | #114 | |
F4lconF16 | Apr 2015 | #77 | |
NuclearDem | Apr 2015 | #2 | |
arely staircase | Apr 2015 | #4 | |
greatauntoftriplets | Apr 2015 | #6 | |
Hekate | Apr 2015 | #15 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #18 | |
IDemo | Apr 2015 | #28 | |
CreekDog | Apr 2015 | #46 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #57 | |
betterdemsonly | Apr 2015 | #60 | |
NuclearDem | Apr 2015 | #62 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #65 | |
Blue_Tires | Apr 2015 | #8 | |
betterdemsonly | Apr 2015 | #10 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #11 | |
Blue_Tires | Apr 2015 | #12 | |
betterdemsonly | Apr 2015 | #9 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #13 | |
betterdemsonly | Apr 2015 | #19 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #22 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #67 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #68 | |
woo me with science | Apr 2015 | #20 | |
edhopper | Apr 2015 | #14 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #16 | |
edhopper | Apr 2015 | #17 | |
CreekDog | Apr 2015 | #49 | |
woo me with science | Apr 2015 | #21 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #24 | |
RufusTFirefly | Apr 2015 | #36 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #39 | |
RufusTFirefly | Apr 2015 | #43 | |
woo me with science | Apr 2015 | #48 | |
RufusTFirefly | Apr 2015 | #51 | |
Trajan | Apr 2015 | #66 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #71 | |
ND-Dem | Apr 2015 | #117 | |
msanthrope | Apr 2015 | #118 | |
ND-Dem | Apr 2015 | #119 | |
woo me with science | Apr 2015 | #76 | |
NuclearDem | Apr 2015 | #80 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #69 | |
Aerows | Apr 2015 | #64 | |
woo me with science | Apr 2015 | #70 | |
betterdemsonly | Apr 2015 | #85 | |
Post removed | Apr 2015 | #23 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #25 | |
nichomachus | Apr 2015 | #26 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #30 | |
RufusTFirefly | Apr 2015 | #34 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #37 | |
betterdemsonly | Apr 2015 | #42 | |
RufusTFirefly | Apr 2015 | #53 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #58 | |
Major Nikon | Apr 2015 | #100 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #105 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #104 | |
nichomachus | Apr 2015 | #29 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #31 | |
RufusTFirefly | Apr 2015 | #32 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #35 | |
RufusTFirefly | Apr 2015 | #38 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #45 | |
betterdemsonly | Apr 2015 | #55 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #72 | |
betterdemsonly | Apr 2015 | #41 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #50 | |
betterdemsonly | Apr 2015 | #54 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #81 | |
blue neen | Apr 2015 | #101 | |
R B Garr | Apr 2015 | #120 | |
FSogol | Apr 2015 | #59 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #74 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #93 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #94 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #96 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #75 | |
Oilwellian | Apr 2015 | #111 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #123 | |
JonLP24 | Apr 2015 | #78 | |
Fred Sanders | Apr 2015 | #99 | |
FSogol | Apr 2015 | #40 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #52 | |
Rex | Apr 2015 | #116 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #107 | |
Rex | Apr 2015 | #115 | |
liberal N proud | Apr 2015 | #27 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #33 | |
Fred Sanders | Apr 2015 | #79 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #82 | |
Fred Sanders | Apr 2015 | #83 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #87 | |
Fred Sanders | Apr 2015 | #92 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #95 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #106 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #103 | |
CreekDog | Apr 2015 | #44 | |
DonCoquixote | Apr 2015 | #56 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #84 | |
betterdemsonly | Apr 2015 | #112 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #121 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #63 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #88 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #91 | |
BainsBane | Apr 2015 | #73 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #89 | |
BainsBane | Apr 2015 | #108 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #122 | |
BainsBane | Apr 2015 | #124 | |
True Blue Door | Apr 2015 | #125 | |
CreekDog | Apr 2015 | #127 | |
BainsBane | Apr 2015 | #128 | |
Cha | Apr 2015 | #109 | |
Rex | Apr 2015 | #113 |
Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:00 PM
R3druM (50 posts)
1. This explains a lot...
Doesn't it
![]() Always remember the first chapter of the manual when hunting for trolls - its a dead giveaway. Chapter 1: Never discuss the topic at hand when the topic is one that casts Russia in a negative light. Bring up something, ANYTHING that another country did or even did not do. The important thing is to change the subject of the conversation, and to take an offensive stance to avoid having to be defensive. DU Rec |
Response to R3druM (Reply #1)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:12 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
3. Yup, that's the M.O. right there.
Headline: Russian economy faltering
Comment: Amrica only country what use atomic bomb Hiroshima! Headline: Vladimir Putin trips on street, sustains minor injuries Comment: Fascist NATO aggression in Ukraine will not stand! USA crime-filled hellhole! Why do they even bother hiring actual people to post such shit? Bot scripts would be as convincing. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #3)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 06:19 AM
Turbineguy (36,082 posts)
126. Well, at least they've moved on from
"capitalist-imperialist running dogs!"
That was getting a bit tiresome. |
Response to R3druM (Reply #1)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:19 PM
stillwaiting (3,795 posts)
5. "Take an offensive stance to avoid having to be defensive."
A strategy that is FULLY implemented by our right-wing lovelies in this country (conservative politicians and media pundits).
They are EXTREMELY offensive as they are being offensive (all part of their strategy no doubt). |
Response to stillwaiting (Reply #5)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:21 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
7. They are undoubtedly taking notes from Putin
and will probably be deploying similar tactics domestically in years to come. The Kremlin and the GOP are kindred spirits.
The Kochs already do it on a modest scale, but the sheer size of the Russian lie operation must leave Republicans in awe and admiration. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #7)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:20 PM
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (99,301 posts)
47. Very much Kindred spirits
Response to Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (Reply #47)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:43 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
61. Disturbing stuff. Putinistas seriously are descending into Nazi pathology.
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #61)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:40 PM
leveymg (36,418 posts)
86. Russia is late to the game. Corporations and State Dept
contractors have been doing this on an industrial scale for over a decade on line. As usual, the Russians are being clumsy and heavy handed about it.
There's gambling going on in this establishment. I'm shocked, shocked I say! |
Response to leveymg (Reply #86)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:45 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
90. They're not late to the game at all. They were doing it on a grand scale
as the Soviet Union, and before that as the Russian Empire.
What's changed is that the current regime in Moscow is Neo-Nazi, with all the toxic and potentially explosive long-term consequences. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #90)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:55 PM
leveymg (36,418 posts)
97. There was an internet in the Soviet Union?
That really is news.
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Response to leveymg (Reply #97)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:58 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
98. This specific sub-thread is about the ideology behind their military aggression in Ukraine.
As prompted by the BBC article posted earlier that started this particular conversation.
Context...it's not just for "Western imperialists." |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #98)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:05 PM
leveymg (36,418 posts)
102. If you say so, boss.
Response to leveymg (Reply #86)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:22 PM
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin (99,301 posts)
110. Guess you didn't read the article he was responding to.
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #7)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:52 PM
ND-Dem (4,571 posts)
114. why would you think they need to take notes from putin? it's laughable. all these
propaganda techniques are longstanding and time-honored, and the US developed plenty of them.
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Response to stillwaiting (Reply #5)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:21 PM
F4lconF16 (3,747 posts)
77. And some of our Democratic friends, you might notice.
Anything bad about Obama or the Democrats is avoided, pointing out all the worse things the Republicans have done. A very effective tactic when used by either of them.
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Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:10 PM
NuclearDem (16,184 posts)
2. Go West Young Elvis Signal was the most most obvious.
Response to NuclearDem (Reply #2)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:16 PM
arely staircase (12,482 posts)
4. no. I think there is 'another' one who is even more obvious nt
Response to arely staircase (Reply #4)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:21 PM
greatauntoftriplets (174,749 posts)
6. LOL.
Response to greatauntoftriplets (Reply #6)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:43 PM
Hekate (83,988 posts)
15. We definitely still have a few around. Perhaps we should be flattered at the attention.
Naaaah. Just give them their pizzas.
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Response to Hekate (Reply #15)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:57 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
18. It's never flattering to be pissed on, no matter who's doing the pissing.
I want to wipe this scum off the internet.
It takes a special kind of low to make the already legitimately demented internet seem diminished by one's presence. Vladimir Putin has achieved that depth. Well done, Vladolf. |
Response to arely staircase (Reply #4)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:51 PM
IDemo (16,926 posts)
28. You're pretty liberal with your conjections.
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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #2)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:19 PM
CreekDog (46,192 posts)
46. i find the dopplegangers just as interesting
invariably the obvious ones, the "leaders" post something.
and sure enough, the various hangers on come around to agree wholeheartedly with whatever they said. kind of comical, though still annoying. |
Response to CreekDog (Reply #46)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:35 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
57. And the tag-team commenting is also obvious and annoying.
They reply to each other's threads in perfect regularity: Guy1, Guy2, Guy3, always in that order. Sometimes they forget they're supposed to be multiple people and reply with the wrong persona. I hope they get "fined" for that kind of slip-up, like the Guardian article says they do when they go off script.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #57)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:39 PM
betterdemsonly (1,967 posts)
60. Has a user with the word ''nuclear" in their username showed up
in support of you yet?
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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #60)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:45 PM
NuclearDem (16,184 posts)
62. Hi!
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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #60)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:50 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
65. Why? Is the Kremlin operating a "Colmes squad" to Straw Man their opposition?
I don't pay attention to who says what, only what gets said. I won't remember your name a few hours after this conversation ends. So that should make things a little easier for you.
BTW, when are you planning to reply to my question where I asked what you meant by "NATO war". What war were you referring to? We know what Vladimir Putin means when he says that phrase - he means the war he is waging against Ukraine with no active NATO involvement whatsoever. Was that the "NATO war" you were referring to? Might want to be careful with future slip-ups like that: No one outside of Russia sees it in those terms. |
Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:23 PM
Blue_Tires (55,445 posts)
8. Guardian is late as hell to the party
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016115227
There's also an uncanny lack of self-awareness, given their employment of Seamus Milne, but good to see them paying attention nonetheless... |
Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #8)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:27 PM
betterdemsonly (1,967 posts)
10. Seamus Milne does't work for Russia
and has been a reporter at the Guardian since forever. Just because he thinks the nato war is stupid doesn't mean he works for them.
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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #10)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:32 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
11. What "NATO war" would that be?
Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #10)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:39 PM
Blue_Tires (55,445 posts)
12. I would suggest you read some of the independent criticism of his work
because there is a very definite and unmistakable "pattern"
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Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:24 PM
betterdemsonly (1,967 posts)
9. I have no doubt about this but I also have no doubt neocon
Last edited Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:26 PM - Edit history (1) warmongers against Russia are doing the same thing. The Guardian have been a lefty humanitarian apologists since 9/11. They have been distinguishably incurious about Giyus and Hasbura pr efforts. Let's not even mention the open, and outfront advocacy, of the Pentagon using the same type of pr tactics, during the 2nd Gulf War. Not to mention Hillary Clinton's open advocacy that America needs to tell a better story to the world? What do you think she is implying?
http://r.duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jpost.com%2FIsrael%2FIsraels-newest-PR-weapon-The-Internet-Megaphone http://www.wired.com/2011/07/darpa-wants-social-media-sensor-for-propaganda-ops/ |
Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #9)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:40 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
13. Neocons adore Russia.
If they were in control, they would have turned a blind eye to Crimea and Eastern Ukraine and made some sort of back-room deal to their own advantage with Putin in return for ignoring his aggression. That's how Bush's people handled Putin, and it's the GOP's most likely set of policies if they regain the White House.
As for "The Guardian has been a lefty humanitarian apologists since 9/11", try not to be so obvious. That's not even a coherent English sentence - the only thing clear about it is that you're trashing the source of the article exposing the Russian troll factory, and saying "lefty humanitarian" like it's a bad thing. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #13)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:02 PM
betterdemsonly (1,967 posts)
19. Pat Buchanan types are paleocons not neocons. n/t
Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #19)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:33 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
22. Oh, so you're going to pretend I didn't say most of what I just said.
I can understand why that would be necessary: You have to keep digressing from the subject - Vladimir Putin's propaganda operation. And I keep bringing it back to that subject. But let's have some fun anyway.
Conservatives in this country in general see a kindred spirit in Vladimir Putin. They condemn his actions with reluctance, and only go along with the sanctions process at all because lucrative deals between Exxon-Mobil and the Russians are exempted. They see his brutality as strength and his lies as legitimate behavior they themselves employ. They both hate the same people and the same things: Liberals, democrats, human rights activists, gay people, Western Europe, and especially Barack Obama. Putin would be a Neo-Nazi if the German-related symbolism were not inconvenient for Russian politics. His ideology is literally fascist, and that political sector is the main source of his admiration abroad. But he can't claim to be on the left either, so he can't wrap himself in Red without looking like a joke - so he rests his entire power base on shrill hate propaganda against minorities and foreign countries (the Nazi playbook), while screaming "fascist!" at his own victims as a rhetorical tactic against being labeled what he is. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #22)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:54 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
67. How nice we have an example of what your OP is reporting .. right on this very thread.
Response to Cha (Reply #67)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:04 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
68. Say the name of the pestilence and suddenly it appears.
They probably have webcrawlers that immediately bring Russia-relevant stories to their attention so they can target troll commenting.
Is anybody doing anything to fight back against these tyrant sock-puppets? It's a damned sacrilege is what it is. They use our free speech as an instrument of promoting tyranny, and not even because they believe in tyranny - but because they live under the thumb of a tyrant who makes them do it, or who pays them to do it. |
Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #9)
woo me with science This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:42 PM
edhopper (31,073 posts)
14. I won't believe this story
until i see it in RT!
Also, what does this pay, I'm looking for work. Can I make "Big Bucks from my own home" like I heard somebody's cousin Maggie did? |
Response to edhopper (Reply #14)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:46 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
16. They probably won't hire anyone outside of Russian territory.
Putin needs his trolls somewhere he can have them killed or threaten their families.
Otherwise it would be too easy for activists and other governments to infiltrate the operation and troll the trolls. Not that we can't troll them back anyway on a volunteer basis. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #16)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 06:49 PM
edhopper (31,073 posts)
17. Darn
I'll have to stick with other ways to "earn Big Bucks on the internet from my very own home."
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #16)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:22 PM
CreekDog (46,192 posts)
49. and if all their trolls get PPR'd, their families get sent to Siberia
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Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:17 PM
woo me with science (32,139 posts)
21. The depth of corruption of our own nation is revealed by its incessant propaganda aimed at Americans
Thank you, Edward Snowden for revealing the contempt and manipulation with which we are now treated by our own corrupt, corporate-purchased government.
Those who build surveillance machines also build propaganda machines, and this administration has legalized propaganda targeted at Americans that used to be illegal. Massive effort and resources are being poured into trying to give the false impression that Americans support our own government's abuses of power against us, and that we have contempt for those who expose them. It's no accident that what used to be liberal gathering spaces are now polluted with reliable attackers of liberals and defenders of every corporate outrage and assault on democracy itself coming out of this administration: the TPP, indefinite detention, secret laws, secret courts, assaults on journalism, drone wars, drilling, fracking, corporate education, privatization, deregulation, etc., etc., etc. And it is no accident that these very same 24/7 mouthpieces also swarm and smear any journalist or whistleblower who exposes or is vocal about our government's abuses of power against its own people. We no longer have a representative government or a democracy. We have a criminal corporate oligarchy that is using outright manipulation to attack dissent and enable the cancer that is neoconservative and neoliberal corruption and subversion of our democracy itself. Let's repost some reminders of what we are really dealing with here:
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Response to woo me with science (Reply #21)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:41 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
24. So you're literally going to do what was just described as the Kremlin troll playbook:
Change the subject from a negative story about Russia and instead spam accusations about the United States without even mentioning the substance of the OP.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #24)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:07 PM
RufusTFirefly (8,812 posts)
36. No. The point is that the U.S is OUR country
If we're worried about the infiltration of shills and trolls, perhaps we should focus on our own homegrown neo-liberal, corporatist sock puppets first.
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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #36)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:11 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
39. But you didn't try to make such a point.
You just immediately changed the subject of criticism from Russia to the United States without even acknowledging that Kremlin trolling had even been brought up. That's literally the troll script.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #39)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:16 PM
RufusTFirefly (8,812 posts)
43. I think I just did make that point. Did you miss it?
If you truly believe I'm following some sort of paranoid fantasy called a "troll script," I honestly feel sorry for you, wish you well, and sincerely hope you don't own any weapons.
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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #43)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:21 PM
woo me with science (32,139 posts)
48. Well said.
Thank you.
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Response to woo me with science (Reply #48)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:24 PM
RufusTFirefly (8,812 posts)
51. Wait a minute! That's not part of the script!!
![]() You're welcome. ![]() |
Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #51)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:52 PM
Trajan (19,089 posts)
66. Guy1 .... Guy2 ...
Response to Trajan (Reply #66)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:10 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
71. Yup. Soliloquies under multiple names worthy of a Woody Allen skit.
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #71)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 11:44 PM
ND-Dem (4,571 posts)
117. Oh the irony
Response to ND-Dem (Reply #117)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 01:10 AM
msanthrope (37,549 posts)
118. I miss Hannah Bell on threads like this. Don't you? nt
Response to msanthrope (Reply #118)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 02:06 AM
ND-Dem (4,571 posts)
119. you must, you're always saying it.
Response to Trajan (Reply #66)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:19 PM
woo me with science (32,139 posts)
76. Actually, swarms.
This thread began, and has evolved, as an excellent example of the tactics used by the familiar corporate posting crew here. I encourage anyone interested to refer to the links I posted, including the actual information revealed by Snowden, to follow along and watch how predictable the tactics are. I believe it's useful to point out but I won't be kicking this one again. |
Response to woo me with science (Reply #76)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:30 PM
NuclearDem (16,184 posts)
80. ...
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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #43)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:06 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
69. So the Guardian story is a "paranoid fantasy" now?
You've gone from merely making ludicrous false equivalencies to actively denying that the Kremlin is doing any of this despite years of documented stories about it from all over the planet? That's how far away from reality you're rocketing?
This job may not be for you, friend. |
Response to woo me with science (Reply #21)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:50 PM
Aerows (39,961 posts)
64. If Cass Sunstein and those of his ilk
publicly stated that grass was green, I'd go outside fully expecting that I was suddenly living in the desert. He's the slimiest character I've ever had the displeasure of reading about.
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Response to Aerows (Reply #64)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:08 PM
woo me with science (32,139 posts)
70. He's a propaganda minister aiming lies at the people our govt. is supposed to be representing.
Selected by the president, no less. This is how corrupt and criminal our own government has become. It's vile, it's unconscionable, and they are using our own tax dollars to do it to us. I honestly never thought I would see my own country come to this. |
Response to woo me with science (Reply #70)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:40 PM
betterdemsonly (1,967 posts)
85. Obama's behavior is confusing
This crowd are probably plotting to kill him because of the Iran deal, yet he hired a bunch of them to work in his state department and the cia? Is he playing games, or uninformed and in over his head?
He was about to make a peace deal with Putin on Syria when the latest Ukrainian color revolution was launched. Did neocon Vicky Nuland do it to sabotage him? What gives? |
Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #23)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:43 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
25. Maybe this week you'll talk about the subject of this article.
Citing Infowars on a liberal website - you people don't even try to be credible.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #25)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:47 PM
nichomachus (12,754 posts)
26. I thought the subject was government-paid internet trolls
Or are the Thought Police in charge now? "you people" up yours.
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Response to nichomachus (Reply #26)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:00 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
30. It is, absolutely.
But your comment closely follows patterns identified as Russian troll tactics - specifically, immediately trying to change the subject to criticisms of the US whenever negative information about Russia is mentioned. Immediately going on the offensive against the accuser.
You offer no connecting perspective, no meaningful thought on the general subject, you just instantly reply to a story about Kremlin propaganda by saying "Americans do it too!" exactly like Russian trolls are required to do. And citing a website just this side of Stormfront for feverish right-wing dementia on a Democratic forum does not inspire confidence. I'm not the Thought Police - I'm an individual with thoughts living in a country where I can express them without fear. Vladimir Putin's Lie Machine is not a threat to that, but it is an insult to it. And so is your comment. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #30)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:04 PM
RufusTFirefly (8,812 posts)
34. Are you accusing nichomachus of being a Russian troll?!
![]() Joe McCarthy, is that you? |
Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #34)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:09 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
37. I'm not the one citing radical right-wing sources to derail a conversation about Kremlin trolling
nor am I the one instantly chiming in to defend it. You're running down the checklist awful fast.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #37)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:14 PM
betterdemsonly (1,967 posts)
42. My sources weren't from any Alex Jones outfit. n/t
Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #42)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:26 PM
RufusTFirefly (8,812 posts)
53. An inconvenient truth, to be sure.
Tant pis!
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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #42)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:37 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
58. Oh, I'm certain of that. Unless RT has hired him.
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #30)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:01 PM
Major Nikon (36,334 posts)
100. Results...
On Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:36 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
It is, absolutely. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6453038 REASON FOR ALERT This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. ALERTER'S COMMENTS This person has repeatedly accused nichomachus of being a troll throughout this thread. That's a personal attack, even when done in a cowardly, roundabout way. You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:46 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT. Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: infowars is a rightwing nutjob site Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: No explanation given Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: No explanation given Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: No explanation given Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: Pot/Kettle Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: No explanation given Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE Explanation: No explanation given |
Response to Major Nikon (Reply #100)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:09 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
105. Thank you for that, MN
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #30)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:08 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
104. LOL.. you got Alerted on by someone who was offended by "Russian Trolls"! 7-0 LEAVE!
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #25)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:00 PM
nichomachus (12,754 posts)
29. There are a dozen other places that give the same information
Sorry the source I cited isn't on your approved list.
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Response to nichomachus (Reply #29)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:01 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
31. You are seriously desperate to not talk about Kremlin trolling, aren't you?
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #25)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:02 PM
RufusTFirefly (8,812 posts)
32. Misdirection is a pathetic, despicable tactic
If you're obsessed with nicho's source, perhaps you'll respond to the substance of woo's post above.
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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #32)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:05 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
35. Yes, it is a despicable tactic. Stop doing it and address the OP
instead of running through your employer's script. Your troll tag-teaming is beyond obvious.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #35)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:10 PM
RufusTFirefly (8,812 posts)
38. People in glass houses
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Response to RufusTFirefly (Reply #38)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:16 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
45. I assume breaking windows is much harder if one works in a concrete basement.
[img]
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #45)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:33 PM
betterdemsonly (1,967 posts)
55. If the poster was in their parents basement
they certainly wouldn't be drawing a salary from Putin. Make up your mind on what smear can stick.
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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #55)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:12 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
72. You didn't even read the Guardian article, did you?
I suppose it wasn't necessary - the script would be the same no matter what it said.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #35)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:12 PM
betterdemsonly (1,967 posts)
41. The original post and the article it is based on are propagandistic
hypocrisy and bs. It provides out of context facts and doesn't talk about agitators against Russia doing the same thing. If they did talk about Western government astroturfers, they probably wouldn't use the word troll to describe them. That is an irresponsible loss of objectivity on the Guardians part and so it is hard to respect.
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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #41)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:23 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
50. See, now you're actually putting in some credible effort. This is how to do it.
Use our own values against us, throw around distractions and disproportionate analogies, and put up smokescreens so people forget we're talking about a gigantic Russian state operation paid to falsify as much internet information and social interaction as possible.
Make people too busy doubting themselves and their source of information to remember that you are the source of their doubt. Now you're reading from the Republican playbook - a much more advanced form of fuckery. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #50)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:31 PM
betterdemsonly (1,967 posts)
54. This sort of personal attack in response to the thread not
going the way you wanted it to is the other reason I cry fowl.
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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #54)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:31 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
81. You "cry fowl," do you? Well, I cry fish.
I'm tired of Kremlin brownshirts shitting all over the entire internet. This is a website for liberals, not people who swoon at the sight of some psychopathic fish-faced tyrant who doesn't care how much he hurts his own country or any other. Your agenda is transparent.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #81)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:03 PM
blue neen (12,152 posts)
101. "Cry fowl"?
I know, "Cock-a-doodle, doo", right?
or "That post really laid an egg". ![]() |
Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #54)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 03:28 AM
R B Garr (16,648 posts)
120. It's more the other way around--this thread is not going the way
YOU would want it to. Very informative actually.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #50)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:38 PM
FSogol (44,375 posts)
59. +1. LOL, they'll all be hitting alert now. Be careful, jury notices will be flying
around.
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Response to FSogol (Reply #59)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:15 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
74. Right.. my last Hide which is dissolved now was for cussing out Putin!
Response to Cha (Reply #74)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:48 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
93. No one should be hidden for calling that murdering Nazi fuckwad what he is.
And that it would happen on a liberal website proves something drastic needs to change.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #93)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:51 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
94. I know.. the little putinistas' sensibilities were mightily offended. Must be punished.
Response to Cha (Reply #94)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:54 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
96. Bringing their sickly byzantine political lifestyle onto an American liberal website...
This is tolerating intolerance at this point. This is too much. These people are not contributors, they're an occupation force.
Assuming it's even more than one person and not just a bunch of sockpuppets, which would somehow be even more disgraceful given the amount of power being wielded against the legitimate members here. |
Response to FSogol (Reply #59)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:18 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
75. No doubt. It's shameful we've allowed things to get this far.
Allowed the infestation to become so thorough that these people can corrupt basic administrative decisions.
Letting it get this far was just extremely irresponsible. These people are naked sockpuppets spewing unhinged right-wing propaganda with rhetoric that doesn't exist in political discourse outside of Russia, and they're flooding us with it. Folks really need to decide if they're okay with this place being repeatedly raped and disgraced by a foreign tyrant through paid liars. It seems like there are no mechanisms whatsoever to stop these bastards from creating as many sockpuppet accounts as they want and building them up with innocuous comments just to then dominate here and in jury decisions. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #75)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:35 PM
Oilwellian (12,647 posts)
111. The big red boogie man is going to corrupt your mind
I've never seen someone with such fear of imaginary little red trolls on DU before. Weird.
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Response to Oilwellian (Reply #111)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 03:49 AM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
123. And apparently the entire Western media is in on the "wild conspiracy theory."
Always out to get Glorious Mother Ru- I mean, err, Russia. Supervisor, please don't dock my pay! Was honest typo!
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #35)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:24 PM
JonLP24 (29,322 posts)
78. Employer's script?
Last edited Fri Apr 3, 2015, 01:11 AM - Edit history (1) Are you seriously accusing everyone with a different opinion of being a Kremlin troll?
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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #78)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:00 PM
Fred Sanders (23,946 posts)
99. Apparently, yes...seems everyone who does not agree 100% with the poster is a troll...what does that say about the poster?
Response to Post removed (Reply #23)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:11 PM
FSogol (44,375 posts)
40. Infowars? Really?
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Response to FSogol (Reply #40)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:25 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
52. Yeah, someone obviously didn't attend the briefing about the vagaries of American internet politics.
The one where liberals don't cite psychotic right-wing propaganda websites. Someone's not getting a bonus.
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Response to FSogol (Reply #40)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:55 PM
Rex (65,616 posts)
116. IKR!?
Comrade Putinski probably likes Alex Jones and infowars.
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Response to Post removed (Reply #23)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:13 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
107. Oh does the OP offend your sensibilities.. you have to try and distract with INFO WARS!
Response to Post removed (Reply #23)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:53 PM
Rex (65,616 posts)
115. Who is 'they'? Are you saying RT is secretly Alex Jones!?
It's like people escaped from moonbat city! Why change the subject? No doubt the CIA/NSA has groups of paid trolls...but we are talking about Russia here.
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Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:48 PM
liberal N proud (59,793 posts)
27. In the US, we have FOX News
Response to liberal N proud (Reply #27)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:04 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
33. Analogous to RT in terms of toxic lying.
But falsifying internet conversations with paid trolls running from scripts is a much deeper form of sinister.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #33)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:25 PM
Fred Sanders (23,946 posts)
79. True if you have created a new meaning for "analogous". Fox the same as RT...NOT!
Some do protesteth too much.
How about concentrating some passion on the American domestic RT, if they are "analogous"? |
Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #79)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:37 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
82. Because Fox is already under control.
They have no influence outside of their core right-wing viewers.
RT is state-funded and state-scripted, and part of a violently-imposed monopoly on media that results in journalists being murdered if they criticize Vladimir Putin on the air. And because the subject is organized Kremlin internet trolling, such as your comment could possibly be an example of. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #82)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:38 PM
Fred Sanders (23,946 posts)
83. Fox has no influence outside their hard core viewers, you opine? Sorry, end of discussion for me with you.
Even before the rest of your overly defensive defence.
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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #83)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:41 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
87. Enjoy your coffee(vodka?) break.
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #87)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:47 PM
Fred Sanders (23,946 posts)
92. Truthfully your wall to wall insults are destroying your entire OP credibility....I got no problem with Internet insults.
Who cares?
"Fox has no influence...outside their hardcore viewers". No response defending your assertion.... at all? |
Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #92)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:52 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
95. Insults are easier to take when one is being paid for the trouble.
I'm not being paid, but then the weather out my window is like 70 degrees (that's Fahrenheit, for people unfamiliar with American weights and measures), and I am allowed to criticize the leaders of my country without being in danger of kidnapping, imprisonment, or murder. All in all, I think this is the better deal.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #33)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:12 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
106. Yes, fox "news" is for the neocons/kochroaches/teabaggers, et cetera. RT is for the Russian
Government!
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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #27)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:05 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
103. Yes, fox "news" is for the neocons/kochroaches/teabaggers, et cetera. RT is for the Russian
GOVERNMENT!
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Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:33 PM
DonCoquixote (13,520 posts)
56. and water is wet
It would be laughable if weren't also so unbelievably insulting, not to mention a desecration of the free speech enabled by the internet. It's as if people like that just can't help themselves - they absolutely have to shit on everything that's benign in the world, sabotage and corrupt every possible source of human enrichment. Whatever humans achieve, they wil find a way to screw up. Of course, let;'s face it, not only is every goverment doing this, but worse, every corporation. |
Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #56)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:40 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
84. Wildly disproportionate equivalence.
It's the silliness of saying the Third Reich and WW2 America both engaged in propaganda.
Kremlin propaganda is alternate-universe Big Lies cribbed from Mein Kampf. The sort of material put out by corporations and Western governments is more like "spin." |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #84)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:39 PM
betterdemsonly (1,967 posts)
112. Godwins Law
You have really pissed on your own thread with this pedantic crap.
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Response to betterdemsonly (Reply #112)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 03:32 AM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
121. If it's Godwin's Law to equate a murderous tyrant who invades other countries
on premises identical to those cited by literally Adolf Hitler in taking the Sudetenland, what is it called when that tyrant then calls his own victims and democratic foreign governments that oppose him "fascists"?
Feel free to consult your supervisor if this deep question requires a response outside the script. |
Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 08:48 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
63. "..with remarks praising the president, Vladimir Putin, and raging at the depravity and injustice
of the west."
See it all time and it's not too subtle.. Mahalo True Blue Door |
Response to Cha (Reply #63)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:43 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
88. While he's murdering journalists and political opposition figures
and wading through rivers of Ukrainian blood, Dear Leader Putin preaches about the depravity of Western countries for giving his diplomats traffic tickets.
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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #88)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:45 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
91. And, hurting Gay People in Russia.. but, oh Putin!
Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:15 PM
BainsBane (52,689 posts)
73. I posted a story about this a couple of months ago
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026279986
and some of Putin's lickspittle when berserk. But then when some of us posted the leaked Kremlin document showing that the invasion of the Ukraine had been planned even before the fall of the government in Kiev, they ignored the evidence. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026288703 (I think that thread had one of the paid trolls make a brief, incoherent appearance before being PPR'd). We've seen less of their transparent BS since, but I did see a recent surreal comment claiming those who question the Russian takeover of the Ukraine are "pro-war," all while stumping for war and bloodshed on behalf of Putin. You know, because being dead just really doesn't matter if it's not at the hands of Americans. When Russian guns kill you, you've been saved from the far worse fate of being subject to IMF loans. That doesn't count as war because the dead are being liberated from a life connected to the West, clearly a fate worse that death.The complete hypocrisy and utter immorality of the Putin faction is something else. At least the paid trolls are earning some money from it, and of course they are Russian. The colossal stupidity of some sections of the American public has proven fruitful for Putin. His paid trolls have been influential, and we see their propaganda aped back to us by the unpaid and uncritical who for whatever reason will latch on to anything that they see as in opposition to the US. (There is some bizarre self-loathing at work there that is beyond my capacity to understand). I can only imagine their admiration for Putin in part relates to his knowing how to keep the ghey in line--by locking them up. There is all kinds of stupid in the world, but that particular brand is marshaled to promote an empire built around racism and homophobia. And yes, I know the US is an empire that does all kinds of damage in the world. The difference between me and the Putin fan club is that I don't use that as an excuse to justify similar actions by other powers. If imperial takeover of sovereign countries is wrong for the US, it is also wrong when done by Russia, and vice versa. That would seem basic to any anti-war, anti-empire principle. Principle is something entirely lacking in the defense of Russian takeover of the Ukraine. |
Response to BainsBane (Reply #73)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 09:45 PM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
89. I want to know when we can finally ban these rodents, from this website at least?
Somehow it's okay if they're foreign Nazis shitting all over this place rather than American ones?
Tolerating intolerance, and protecting tyrannical propaganda rampages designed to shout down reality under the name of free speech is just insane. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #89)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:15 PM
BainsBane (52,689 posts)
108. one has been banned
Several times. Some others are long-term members, not paid trolls. They won't be banned, nor should they be, at least not for their views on Putin alone.
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Response to BainsBane (Reply #108)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 03:43 AM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
122. The longer we allow this to go on, the more of them will become "long-term members"
who will cite the innocuous content they're taught to embed their Kremlin propaganda in as evidence that they're contributing members. It's part of the playbook.
And it's not a stretch to identify such accounts: Liberals do not go around consistently promoting and making excuses for a fascist dictator engaged in active military aggression against his neighbors, who murders journalists, seizes control of his country's media, and demonizes minorities in his vile propaganda. Liberals in this country don't just randomly develops such passionately supportive "views" about another country's radical right-wing government, coincidentally as that government deploys entire armies to corrupt and falsify internet discussions. There has to be basic common sense here. Some basic self-defense. |
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #122)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 03:55 AM
BainsBane (52,689 posts)
124. I find the position every bit as odious as you do
but except for the few who signed up to troll exclusively on that topic, I can tell you the administrators aren't going to do anything about them.
You'll see some of the same people excusing Assad, Qaddafi, basically anyone they see as in opposition to the US. It's not just a question of being critical of US foreign policy. I am and certainly most members of this site are. They take it further. They insist on whitewashing anyone that they see as in opposition to the US, and don't bat an eye in excusing mass murder. We could be facing genocide, and if the US spoke out against it, they would defend it. That's the level of pathology. |
Response to BainsBane (Reply #124)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 04:23 AM
True Blue Door (2,969 posts)
125. Sometimes it's very hard not to wonder if this site's title is some kind of joke.
"Democratic Underground," where all are welcome who spend at least half their time not actively shrieking violent radical right-wing propaganda.
Because that's what a Democratic Underground should be about - the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party...and fascist trolls from other countries promoting the extermination of liberalism from the Earth. I marvel at the logic of it. That's kind of like how the Sons of Liberty did it, wasn't it? One guy gets up and makes an impassioned speech about liberty; another rails against the refusal of Parliament to grant colonials representation in parliament; then a ventriloquist from London gets up with his dummy and makes a sincere "colloquy" about how wonderful the King is and how ungrateful and stupid the colonists are, and everybody politely allows it to continue, not wishing to be seen as unreasonable or intolerant of "alternative views." |
Response to BainsBane (Reply #108)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 01:33 PM
CreekDog (46,192 posts)
127. however many there are or were
it sure appears the current shift has this thread covered now.
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Response to CreekDog (Reply #127)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 01:39 PM
BainsBane (52,689 posts)
128. Yet they always ignore this
Russian Newspaper publishes Kremlin strategy paper on plans to annex the Ukraine
Drawn up before the fall of the government in Kiev. First the link to the original publication in Russian: http://www.novayagazeta.ru/politics/67389.html Translation of the article and document as published on a Ukranian website: "Novaya Gazeta" is publishing Russia’s plan for the annexation of a number of territories of Ukraine, which were drawn up when Yanukovych was still president of this country.
The document that has come into the possession of Novaya was presumably “brought in” to the Presidential Administration in the period between February 4 and February 12, 2014. Now excerpts from the document: 2. Russia’s policy toward Ukraine must finally become pragmatic.
First, the regime of Viktor Yanukovych has gone totally bankrupt. Its political, diplomatic, financial, and information support from the Russian Federation is no longer meaningful. Second, as a sporadic civil war in the form of urban guerrilla of the so-called “supporters of the Maidan” against the leadership of a number of the country’s eastern regions has become a fact, while the disintegration of the Ukrainian state along the line of geographical demarcation of regional alliances - “western regions plus Kyiv” and “eastern regions plus Crimea” - has become part of the political agenda, in these circumstances, Russia should in no way limit its policy toward Ukraine only to attempts to influence the political situation in Kyiv and the relationship of a systemic opposition (A. Yatsenyuk, V. Klitschko, O. Tyagnybok, P . Poroshenko, etc.) with the European Commission. Third, in an almost complete paralysis of the central government, unable to form a responsible government even facing threats of default and of Naftogaz lacking funds to pay for Russian gas, Russia is simply obliged to get involved in the geopolitical intrigue of the European Community directed against the territorial integrity of Ukraine. First of all, this is because otherwise our country risks losing not only the Ukrainian energy market, but also indirect control over Ukraine’s gas transportation system, which is much more dangerous. This will endanger the position of Gazprom in Central and Southern Europe, causing huge damage to our country’s economy. 3. The Constitution of Ukraine is in no case able to provide for a mechanism that could legitimately initiate the integration of Ukraine’s eastern territories and Crimea into the state-legal framework of the Russian Federation. . . . Current events in Kyiv convincingly show that the Yanukovych’s time in power could end at any moment. Thus, there is less and less time for an appropriate Russian response. The number of dead in riots in the capital of Ukraine is direct evidence of the inevitability of civil war and the impossibility of reaching consensus if Yanukovych remains president. In these circumstances, it seems appropriate to play along the centrifugal aspirations of the various regions of the country, with a view to initiate the accession of its eastern regions to Russia, in one form or another. Crimea and Kharkiv region should become the dominant regions for making such efforts, as there already exist reasonably large groups there that support the idea of maximum integration with Russia. 4. Of course, taking the burden of supporting Crimea and several eastern territories, Russia will be forced to take on budget expenses, which would be cumbersome in the country’s present position. Undoubtedly, this will affect macroeconomic stability and the prospects for economic growth. However, geopolitically, the prize will be invaluable: our country will gain access to new demographic resources, highly qualified industry and transport personnel will be at its disposal. In addition, it can count on the emergence of new eastward Slavic migration flows - as opposed to the Central Asian migration trends. The industrial potential of the Eastern Ukraine, including the military-industrial sector, once included in the Russian military-industrial complex, will allow for the faster and more successful implementation of the program of rearmament of Russia’s military forces. What is equally important, Russia’s constructive, “smoothing” participation in the highly probable disintegration of the Ukrainian state will not only give new impetus to the Kremlin’s integration project, but will also allow our country to retain control over Ukraine’s gas transportation system, as mentioned above. And at the same time, it will allow there to be significant changes in the geopolitical situation in Central and Eastern Europe, allowing Russia to regain its major role there. 5. To start the process of a “pro-Russian drift” of Crimea and eastern Ukrainian territories, events should be created beforehand that can support this process with political legitimacy and moral justification; also a PR-strategy should be built that draws attention to the forced, reactive nature of the actions of Russia and the pro-Russian political elites of southern and eastern Ukraine. Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1048525-novaya-gazetas-kremlin-papers-article-full-text-in-english.html |
Response to BainsBane (Reply #73)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:18 PM
Cha (286,383 posts)
109. thanks again for that, BB
Response to True Blue Door (Original post)
Thu Apr 2, 2015, 10:49 PM
Rex (65,616 posts)
113. Leave Pootin alone!
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