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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:37 AM Apr 2015

The right’s “cake” insanity: You won’t believe how it’s trying to deflect the Indiana backlash

How absurd have Republicans gotten in their defense of "religious freedom" laws? They now argue "cake is speech"

JOAN WALSH


“Cake is speech.”

That’s what Indiana Baptist pastor Tim Overton told NPR’s Steve Inskeep Thursday morning, defending his state’s controversial “religious freedom” law. I thought it was so funny, I immediately tweeted it.

But as the day went on, it became clear that Overton’s argument wasn’t some fringe theory: It’s shaping up as a core tenet of one “compromise” approach to religious freedom laws that’s under consideration, in the wake of the backlash to the Indiana law, which Overton fervently supported as written. It’s at the heart of the fix to the law Jeb Bush pushed Wednesday night with pro-gay rights Republican donors.

Here’s how the pastor tried to explain it: Critics who say Indiana’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act would let businesses routinely deny service to LGBT Americans are wrong. “I don’t think any RFRA anywhere would say, ‘I’m not gonna give you a hotel room, I’m not gonna give you a hamburger, or gasoline or groceries,’” Overton told Inskeep. “That’s outside the bounds.”

But just as a religious leader should be able to decide, according to the tenets of his or her faith, whether to preside over gay marriages, Overton argued, so should a florist or a baker get to decide whether his or her “artistic ability” should be part of a gay wedding.

I think most Americans would agree that a pastor like myself should not be compelled by the government to use my speech to support someone else’s perspective. I think that has parallels to the cake maker. The cake maker is using his or her artistic ability to make a cake and that cake communicates something. I think that cake is speech, that says ‘we celebrate this union.’ I just don’t think they should be forced by the government to use their speech to support someone else’s perspective….I would like the line to be drawn in services that involve speech.


more
http://www.salon.com/2015/04/03/the_rights_cake_insanity_you_wont_believe_how_its_trying_to_deflect_the_indiana_backlash/
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The right’s “cake” insanity: You won’t believe how it’s trying to deflect the Indiana backlash (Original Post) DonViejo Apr 2015 OP
Summary... We get to be bigoted assholes... well... because... freedom of expression! boston bean Apr 2015 #1
So they're fine with being 'forced' to give you a hamburger, but not a cake? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #2
Cake is speech. Hamburgers are not. Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #3
I put a lot of artistry into my gourmet hamburgers! boston bean Apr 2015 #4
Well, yes, if it's a real artistic creation, I suppose… Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #5
Well... what about... TlalocW Apr 2015 #6
What about Subway? Aren't they sandwich artists? ohnoyoudidnt Apr 2015 #7
For right now it is Bettie Apr 2015 #10
I'm sure the slave owners in the South, Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #12
Yeah, my brother definitely falls into that class Bettie Apr 2015 #14
That was in Federalist Paper number 57, wasn't it? gratuitous Apr 2015 #16
I'm not sure which of the FP it was, Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #17
If your business serves the public workinclasszero Apr 2015 #8
Then I demand my right to free cake. n/t Orsino Apr 2015 #9
Let them speak cake!!! Coventina Apr 2015 #11
Qu'ils parlent du Gateau! Jackpine Radical Apr 2015 #18
Do florists and bakers have questionnaires to determine if someone is an atheist, satanist, swinger, Pisces Apr 2015 #13
their argument is flawed, they don't support heterosexual unions either. Trillo Apr 2015 #15

boston bean

(36,223 posts)
1. Summary... We get to be bigoted assholes... well... because... freedom of expression!
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:41 AM
Apr 2015

Uh, NO you don't!

LGBT needs to be come a protected class in the constitution of the US.

Let's get it in the ERA.... women are still not recognized as full human beings... let's update it to reflect the reality of today!

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
2. So they're fine with being 'forced' to give you a hamburger, but not a cake?
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:42 AM
Apr 2015

You can sit at the lunch counter, you can even get lunch, just no dessert for you?

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
5. Well, yes, if it's a real artistic creation, I suppose…
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 09:54 AM
Apr 2015

But then art of any kind is generally wasted on RWNJs.

I'm kinda hungry, so I'm having trouble sorting this all out.

Bettie

(16,118 posts)
10. For right now it is
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 10:26 AM
Apr 2015

But next month, who knows what will be "speech".

Honestly, they may be trying to turn back the clock on everything.

Before long, they'll say it isn't just "teh gayz", it will be minorities of all stripes, women etc.

I'm already seeing the arguments from so-called libertarians (who have never met a Teapublican they won't vote for) arguing that all civil rights legislation is wrong because...freedom!

Sadly, my brother is one of these. He loves to explain that it is him, a white, heterosexual man, who is really oppressed because he has to work with people of other races (who, in his mind, are all inferior in every way, even the few "good ones&quot . He is oppressed because his company has a few female drivers who are also inferior to him in his magnificence as a white man.

We should, he tells me, go back to the "good old days" when minorities and women knew their place and were properly respectful to people like him.

Ugh. My own brother makes my skin crawl. Which makes me feel guilty for not wanting to see him. I'm glad he lives far enough away that visiting is not really an option.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
12. I'm sure the slave owners in the South,
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 10:46 AM
Apr 2015

what with their worries over prices of cotton and slaves, envied the darkies their simple lives, singing on the levees and whatnot.

What I'm trying to get at here is that there is a type of person in whom the capacity for empathy does not extend beyond the self. Your brother sounds like he falls in that class.

Bettie

(16,118 posts)
14. Yeah, my brother definitely falls into that class
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 10:54 AM
Apr 2015

He has zero empathy for anyone but himself.

Me, I feel bad for not liking him.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
17. I'm not sure which of the FP it was,
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 11:38 AM
Apr 2015

but I do recall that Alexander Hamburglar is generally credited with it.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
8. If your business serves the public
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 10:14 AM
Apr 2015

then you agree to serve anyone who walks in the door willing to pay for your service.

NEWS FLASH!!! Gay people are...GASP...are part of that public as well! You DO NOT get to pick and choose!

Either serve the whole public or GTFO of running a public business!

WTH is this so hard for Neanderthal republicans to figure out???

Pisces

(5,601 posts)
13. Do florists and bakers have questionnaires to determine if someone is an atheist, satanist, swinger,
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 10:53 AM
Apr 2015

etc. I'm sure these religious people would object to providing flowers for known satanists?? No they don't. They don't get to
pick and choose customers by interrogating them to make sure they attend Sunday services. What kind of
bullshit is this. It is specific to LGBT and they know it.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
15. their argument is flawed, they don't support heterosexual unions either.
Fri Apr 3, 2015, 11:17 AM
Apr 2015
The cake maker is using his or her artistic ability to make a cake and that cake communicates something. I think that cake is speech, that says ‘we celebrate this union.’ I just don’t think they should be forced by the government to use their speech to support someone else’s perspective….I would like the line to be drawn in services that involve speech.


The example is oversimplified, but has a little truth. An individual cake maker is likely an artist. It would make sense that the cake maker was celebrating someone else's union if they made the cake and gave it to the couple for free. But since they are selling the cake, it is just another transaction.

It has everything to do with the direction of money. They would also be supporting the couple if, instead of a cake, they gave the couple money, or another gift.

I wonder how many heterosexual unions those cake makers who sell cakes "are supporting."
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