city tells father to remove cardboard fort he built for kids in front yard

[Liberal_in_LA]

Ogden City cites children's box fort as junk violation
SUNDAY , APRIL 05, 2015 - 5:25 PM



OGDEN — Jeremy Trentelman wasn’t thinking about violating any municipal codes when he helped his 3-year-old build a major box fort in their front yard last weekend, but apparently someone else did.

When Trentelman got home from work Wednesday he had a notification on his door that he was in violation of Ogden City’s code 12-4-2: Waste Materials or Junk; prohibited on premises. The prohibition covers junk or salvage material, litter and/or any abandoned or inoperable vehicle. In the notification Trentelman was told he had 15 days to get the boxes off his lawn or he could be charged $125 with the first violation (after the 15 days) with fees and legal actions proceeding from there.

Code enforcement officer Gordon Sant issued the notification. “I’m going to send him a letter, but I haven’t been able to get myself calmed down enough about it to do it,” Trentelman said.

He did post pictures on social media talking about the citation and has gotten quite a bit of positive feedback. “I just thought it was an awesome way to use boxes and my kids’ imagination,” Trentelman said.
http://www.standard.net/Local/2015/04/04/Box-Fort-Cited-as-Junk

[yeoman6987]

1. Ah....yeah that has to go

I know big bad HOA and city ordinances are not popular but that would not make me happy seeing that monstrosity everyday. Sorry it must come down. My personal HOA President would have a heart attach seeing that. Lol.

[hobbit709]

2. I see the authoritarian mindset is strong within you

[treestar]

6. Whats authoritarian?

People sign the HOA - and the law being followed is hardly a bad thing.

[Comrade Grumpy]

12. There is no mention of an HOA in the article.

Mindless enforcement of local ordinances isn't necessarily a good thing.

Reminds me of school zero tolerance policies.

This wasn't debris or garbage, it was a kid's fort.

[treestar]

45. If an ordinance is duly passed

Enforcing it is the community's idea of what is going to happen.

I don't know if the "this is not cardboard but a fort" is a good defense or not.

[LanternWaste]

150. "Mindless enforcement" often being little more than "enforcement of regulations I myself dislike..."

"Mindless enforcement" often being little more than "enforcement of regulations I myself dislike..."

Much as "authoritarian mindset" being the placeholder for "following the rules".

[jberryhill]

14. There is no HOA involved here

Aside from which, he has 15 days to remove it.

I wouldn't imagine he was going to keep cardboard boxes in the yard that long.

[KittyWampus]

23. I'd make a party out of tearing it down. Invite neighbors, have a grill going.

I'd also schedule the NEXT cardboard box fort happening…

Bring your own cardboard box.

[jberryhill]

25. Replace it every two weeks with new boxes

...and comply with each 15 day notice to remove the boxes.

Simple.

[treestar]

46. the poster mentioned them

and then the other poster called the "authoritarian" so I was speaking more to that.

I would be surprised to find it not "authoritarian" in some circles to assert he should be able to keep it up as long as he pleases.

[sabrina 1]

127. Laws are not written in stone. In an evolved society people are able to be flexible.

If you can't teach your child to be creative on your own property, without some authoritarian demanding you remove it because the poor dear can't see the beauty of a father teaching his child to not only be creative, but to be directed in a positive way and to utilize material that would normally be thrown in the garbage, in this throw away society we live in.

Such unhappy people might benefit from joining in the fun, rather than calling the cops on a 3 year old and his dad.

[treestar]

148. They are close to it

you don't get to decide whether or not to follow the law. If you don't, there are legal consequences. You might argue interpretations, as in this cardboard fort doesn't meet the standard of what the law prohibits. But you don't get to say gee, this isn't so bad, and I'm just helping out some kids, and if ordinance prohibits this I should get to fudge this, don't you think?

I swear, that is the criminal mindset. I had to or needed to do this, so the laws should not matter.

[Romeo.lima333]

20. yes i must withstand whatever pile of crap someone decides to pile up in the front yard

or im an authoritarian

[hobbit709]

21. you're an authoritarian if you believe all rules must always be followed to the letter of the law

[treestar]

47. Why is that authoritarian

in a country where laws are made by elected officials?

If they are not enforced "to the letter" then when do we decide we get to flout it?

[hobbit709]

49. If you gotta ask you will never know why.

Ever hear of the saying "Rules were made to be broken"

[treestar]

113. Who gets to break them?

And who gets to decide who gets to break them?

[Romeo.lima333]

141. so if someone steals your car you'd be cool with that cause hey rules were made to be broken

If you gotta ask you will never know why.
people respond with these kind of statements cause they cant explain it.

[A HERETIC I AM]

77. Ever been passed by a cop when you were driving 2 or 3 or 5MPH over the limit?

Ever broken ANY municipal code, no matter how slight?

If you would answer "No" I would say you are either a liar, incredibly lucky, simply unknowing or you never leave your house.

Law enforcement is rarely "to the letter".

It is very often arbitrary.

This is little more than a case of someone like YOU...your typical busybody who professes to know best how others should behave - dropping a dime.

[treestar]

114. How slight is this?

It would be very noticeable.

Reminds me of my relative who cried that he made a left turn that was not allowed between 7 and 9 a.m. at 8:55 a.m. and thought it unfair and dumb that he got the ticket. How was the cop to know what "9 a.m." really meant to him?

The laws are not "what is convenient to me and I should be able to flout them when I think best." And I get to decide when other people should get a pass. The whole project of making laws is a joint one - all people don't agree on all things, so these are the compromises.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

92. What do you personally feel justified in doing about it?

If you saw someone beating a kid in the next yard over, I'm sure you would feel justified in stopping it.

Apparently in this case you don't mind delegating the intervening, but you don't feel justified in doing anything about it yourself?

There's your solution... If you personally wouldn't intervene, don't ask someone else to do it for you. It's a good life lesson to live by.

[treestar]

115. HUH?

What?

Why is it "authoritarian" when the law is enforced? Laws made by elected officials?

[TampaAnimusVortex]

146. Your kidding right?

You really don't understand the relationship between law and "authority"? I would had thought it obvious that there was to be some authority that imposed law.

The question is if it is a just and moral law. In the past it was legal to own slaves. It was illegal to hide Jews from the Nazi's. Not all law is moral.

Either you believe law is to be followed unquestionably (much like those Nazi soldiers pushing Jews into gas chambers - after all, their just doing their job right?) - or you believe you should act morally in spite of what the law says.

Which takes us back to - "What do YOU personally feel justified in doing in this case"? Not the police... Not the military... Not some representative where you can delegate your authority, and then think you bear no responsibility in what they do... What would YOU do about it?

If you would go on their property and remove their cardboard fort personally, I posit that your not only authoritarian, but criminal. It doesn't matter if it's you or your delegated agents. If you support it, you own that morality.

[treestar]

173. We're talking about a cardboard box here

not the holocaust. There's no reason to flout every law you don't like. those choices only come up in big things.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

151. So, because a group of dip-weed pols put something on paper we're supposed to genuflect?

That would be the "authoritarianism" people keep referring to.

[treestar]

172. Seriously?

Elected officials make the laws, says the constitution. At least we get a say in what the laws are, which his not the case in a dictatorship.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

174. Law passed by elected official or not there is nothing in this incident that merits a response from

the government.

[treestar]

176. If it violates an ordinance

there's no reason for the government to ignore it because some people don't feel like going along with an ordinance.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

178. Laws and whatnot are meant to give us a civil society for the benefit of the people.

When the law becomes destructive to that end or becomes a tool of subjugation then the people have the right and the duty to not submit.

Policing Gone Bonkers: There Are 26 Open Warrants Per Citizen in Tiny Missouri Town

If you want to know what a corrupt police state of revenue collecting, citation addicted bureaucrats look like, look in Missouri.

A recent report showed that there were 23,457 arrest warrants pending in Pine Lawn Municipal Court in St. Louis County. That’s about 7.3 per resident. However, Pine Lawn is far from the worst. The town of Country Club Hills has over 35,000 outstanding arrest warrants, or a mind blowing 26.9 per resident.

The vast majority of these warrants are for what St. Louis residents have come to call “poverty violations.” Poverty violations are “crimes” that have no victim and are designed to generate revenue for the state. They are things like driving with a suspended license, expired plates, expired registration and a failure to provide proof of insurance.

A $200 ticket for an expired registration could mean that you either feed your children for two weeks or spend a week in jail. Many folks find themselves on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale and are unable to contribute to the state’s revenue collection scheme; they are subsequently classified as criminals.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/policing-gone-bonkers-there-are-26-open-warrants-citizen-tiny-missouri-town

Authoritarians got to authoritate, I suppose. I don't know which is more galling that they pull this crap or that they lie to our faces telling us it's for our own good rather than their power.

[treestar]

180. If you want to make your stand over cardboard in a front yard

Go for it. It's not Rosa Parks, but I guess it makes your point that authority is a terrible thing. We should all be able to do whatever we want, without the other members of society trying to make pesky laws to stop us.

[pnwmom]

120. That's not what an authoritarian is. Advocating adherence to laws arrived at through the democratic process

is not being an authoritarian.

[Liberal_in_LA]

94. a few days or a week would be ok. let them have their fun

[yeoman6987]

52. Your welcome to have that ugly monstrosity in your

Next door yard. I thank God will never see that. I have enough problems getting my neighbors to stop having their leaves from their dumb tree come into my yard. Oh I get along with them in fact had dinner with them last Thursday but there leaves drive me nuts. My lawn company who cares for my lawn hates it too. I make the service rake before mowing or spraying the yard and definitely if they are laying down fertilizer.

[hobbit709]

55. Why do I get the feeling you're one of those people

that bring great joy whenever they leave the room.

[yeoman6987]

57. Lol. I am very easy going actually

Did I say I confront the neighbors or get nasty with them. The lawn service just had more work to do is all. My yard and home are impeccable. I don't do inside or outside because I leave the experts to clean and maintain my home. The housekeeper and maintence are experts and do it for a living. I didn't go into that line of work after college like they did.

[KT2000]

90. just a reminder -

the spraying that is done in your yard enters the air that is breathed by your neighbors. I consider that more of an encroachment than leaves or cardboard boxes.

Ask for the MSDS on the sprays used in your yard - then do not believe the level of hazard noted in the MSDS (they are made up by the legal department). Do your own research.
gyphosate - carcinogen. If they are using commercial grade it is even stronger than consumer grade
hormone mimicking chemicals -= prostate cancer, testicular cancer, breast cancer, ovarian cancer, uterine cancer, endometriosis, impaired brain development in the fetus, neurological disorders in children such as learning disorders.
2,4-D, banned in Europe but not the US.

Know that when your yard is sprayed you have the potential to impair a child's brain, contribute to cancer and immune disorders, affect the health of pets around you etc.
Perfect lawns are toxic.

[yeoman6987]

97. I have never asked the lawn service what they use

But I will to ensure they are not using pollutants. All the neighbors have a service. They are mostly doctors and lawyers. I am the poorest living there but not the smallest home. The homes range from 2209 sq ft to 6809 sq ft. Don't ask me about the 09. I always thought it was kinda strange.

[jberryhill]

121. So the line of work you chose after college was ignorance?

You have someone spraying chemicals on your own lawn and you don't know what it is?

Can you name each of the bodies of water between your lawn and the sea, and three species which live in them?

[yeoman6987]

129. It is a company they know what is legal for the state

[jberryhill]

160. Is it legal in your state to smoke cigarettes? Do you smoke them?

It is surprising that you claim to be educated, but seem blithely ignorant of the environmental and health impacts of lawn chemicals, and are likely ignorant of what is downstream from you.

Your avatar is the flag of the State of Maryland.

Humor me a moment and google the terms "lawn chemicals" and "Chesapeake Bay".

[yeoman6987]

161. You take care of your state. I will take care of mine

Chances are Maryland is head over heels better then yours in all things. Obviously Maryland cares about chemicals so the company knows what is best and don't forget I pay the rain tax every years to help preserve the Chesapeake Bay so either way I am ultimately a preserver of the environment.

[jberryhill]

162. The bay waters flow right through the canal in my state

But obviously, you have no interest in any further education since deciding after college not to maintain lawns.

[yeoman6987]

164. I know enough to write a check every month to the company

And to the state of Maryland. I don't have to be an expert in lawn maintenance. From the sounds of it, you probably should go into lawn care as you are such an expert and all. Maybe a good business for you to start. Good luck! I would never claim to be an expert at anything even though I have been very successful in my life. I guess I am not bold enough.

[Hekate]

56. Yo, man--you seriously object to trees and leaves? How, exactly, do you get your neighbors...

..."to stop having their leaves from their dumb tree come into (your) yard"?

Perhaps you should give the tree a stern talking-to about its boundary issues?

[yeoman6987]

59. No the lawn service takes care of it for me

They have to rake them up before starting on my grass. They were giving the list of tasks to do and raking leaves is on it. It is done weekly.

[Hekate]

64. How lovely for you. But most families USE their houses and yards for their KIDS...

...and kids are notoriously not impeccable or pristine. For your sake (and the rest of suburbia) I hope you're in one of those gated communities.

[yeoman6987]

83. Of course I am in a gated community.

I have to have order. Kids are here but they are well behaved and don't have cardboard play things. There is a list of HOA approved outdoor playthings that may be authorized for children. The list is not long but everyone seems to get along with it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

98. Of course you are.

[yeoman6987]

102. Most people are. I am not special.

I have no idea where you live but I bet it is a gated community too.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

107. Me? No. I live in a small old (1885) house on a small lot

in a middle-class, big-city neighborhood. My closest neighbor's house is about 20' from mine. I wouldn't live in a gated community with an HOA for all the tea in China. I have taken up all my grass and turned my entire lawn into a garden planted mostly with native plants and a few fruit trees to attract bees and butterflies. I use no chemicals and let the dandelions live because the bees like them. My trees overhang my house and my neighbors' trees shed their leaves in my yard. I don't rake them but leave them on the ground for mulch. I feed the birds and the squirrels. I am exactly the wrong person for a gated community. Most people don't live in them.

[yeoman6987]

108. It actually sounds really nice.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

109. It is, for me; but a HOA would never allow it.

Fortunately my city actually encourages what I'm doing. Get rid of the grass; plant something useful and beautiful.

[Bettie]

110. I live in a middle-class, small town neighborhood

Sounds a lot like yours, though we have a lawn in back, since my kids are still young enough to play there.

We have big trees and our leaves sometimes blow into the neighbor's yard, but then, the wind changes and his leaves blow into ours.

I could never live in a place where other people got to be in charge of my yard and my home. Never.

[Coventina]

124. Most people are?!?!?

Can you please provide the statistics on that?

[yeoman6987]

133. Ok 8 million and growing fast

I didn't move to a gated community out of fear. I moved there because the house was 775 thousand and that is what I could afford at the time. I couldn't afford the million dollar homes in the open concept that you live in. Sorry not all of us are right especially in Arnold Maryland.

[Coventina]

152. "I couldn't afford the million dollar homes in the open concept that you live in."

Can you explain what you mean by that?
Because it sounds like you think I live in a million dollar home, when, by your info, you paid approximately $650K more than I did for a home.

[yeoman6987]

153. I thought you did by your posts.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

[Coventina]

154. Wow! I'm super curious! What did you see in my posts that made you think that?

That just blows my mind!!

[Hekate]

128. Most people do not live like that. What the heck are you afraid of that you need a gate and walls?

I live in a basic middle class community. Anybody can drive down our streets. Anybody can walk down our streets.

We have some retirees, and we have some families with small children. We are in an okay school district and kids can walk to elementary school and middle school -- so that means kids are out on the street making kid noises.

People walk their dogs. My husband knows everybody from walking our dog.

Our next door neighbor runs his vending machine business out of his garage, complete with truck. He has a thing for Halloween and Christmas with massive decorations, and people actually drive through our neighborhood to see the display. At the end of each holiday he takes it all down and puts it away. Just because it's not my taste, doesn't mean he can't do this.

We have one nutball neighbor. When my friend across the street moved in and started putting in new bushes, the nutball came by to criticize her choices. My friend said, and I quote: I MOVED OUT OF MY CONDO SO I COULD DO WHAT I WANTED TO WITH MY OWN PROPERTY.

And my husband and I moved out of our apartment so our then-children would have a neighborhood where they could run all over the place being children.

This is actually how most of us live.

I would not live in a "gated community" if you paid me.

[Scootaloo]

134. There must be an awful lot of folks you don't count as "people," then n/t

[yeoman6987]

135. I exaggerated. It's 8 million and growing.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

165. So about 2% of the population.

Even that seems high, but assuming 8 million is correct, that's still nowhere near "most people." 2% is closer to "hardly anybody."

[yeoman6987]

167. I know. I know. I fessed up that I exaggerated

I didn't have a clue about the numbers until I did a Google search.

[Blanks]

76. Spraying fertilizer on the lawn is what is bad...

I'd rather see boxes in the yard than the green slime running unnaturally down the curb to pollute the nearest creek.

...but we all have our thing.

[yeoman6987]

80. Yes but we have to have it here.

The fines for weeds imposed by the HOA are very high especially after first warning.

[Blanks]

86. It can be done environmentally...

And I'm sure in most cases it is, but I'm told that the fertilizer that is sprayed on lawns is more of an environmental concern than the fertilizer on agricultural properties for a couple of different reasons.

1). The fertilizer goes directly to the nearest water source because it travels along hard surface.

2). A much larger quantity is used because they don't want to risk failure (and having to return).

This HOA policy is pure evil compared to the damage caused by a few 'weeds' growing in the burbs, but we all have the things we are passionate about.

You are aware that fertilizer that leaches into the water supply in the form of nitrates is a cause of 'blue baby syndrome', but I suppose green grass without weeds is more important than healthy babies.

[goldent]

87. And don't let anyone get away with that "crab grass" execuse

They will say that "crab grass" is grass. Well technically it is true, but trust me you can find expert witnesses who will (at a cost to be borne out of HOA fees) support your claim that it is not a "grass" to a reasonable person living in an upscale suburban development with perfect lawns. To make a long story short, it is a weed and the justice system will support you.

[yeoman6987]

96. Thank you so much for the tip

Our HOA is strict so I will remind neighbors of that because we do get that crab looking grass.

[goldent]

132. Happy to help.

Sounds like your HOA runs a pretty tight ship. I recommend an annual close reading of the dead restrictions as a refresher. That knowledge allows you to view nearly everything as a potential violation. As another hint, Google Earth allows you to inspect backyards without requiring the consent of your dear neighbors - sometimes backyards harbor violations that no neighbor can actually see (the most insidious type of violation)

[haikugal]

177. I'm curious...

I've been reading along and came to this sub thread about you, your neighbor's tree and your lawn service. Why, when your service uses either a bigger or mulching mower, would you have them rake the leaves? I mow over them and take the bag to dump in the composting pile. I'm confused about that...but I'm fairly certain they either bag or mulch clip your lawn.

Thanks!

[panader0]

72. You're not your.

[yeoman6987]

79. Thanks. I always do that typing.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

73. Oh, you are one of those.

My neighbor whines about our 40 foot Maple every chance he gets.

Too fucking bad, I say. We enjoy privacy when we are on our third floor deck and we enjoy a cool shaded comfortable yard on even the hottest of days.

My mother in law has a crazy lady next door who whines about MIL's tree too. Crazy lady just informed her they are cutting down the last tree on CL's property. It was supposed to be a hint. As if MIL owes the busy body nxt door the spotless lawn she is obsessed with.

[yeoman6987]

78. You wouldn't last in my neighborhood

First you can't have a tree over the roof. Secondly going through the gate, the guard may have a problem with you bringing in cinder blocks to replace your wheels with on the car. Lol.

[panader0]

85. Wow, a gated community with no trees allowed over the house!! With a guard!

Each to their own, but there is no way I could ever live like that.
I live in the high, mesquite covered land in southern Arizona. Javelina and coyotes abound, and I love it. And I can have trees over my house.
You wouldn't last in my neighborhood either.

[yeoman6987]

95. Lol. Good thing we picked appropriate neighborhoods for each of us

[Hassin Bin Sober]

99. Our house is about 45 feet high.

I wish the tree covered the roof top deck. The sun up there is brutal . We let my neighbors use it to sun bathe but, other than that, it doesn't get much daytime use.

[lumberjack_jeff]

74. Hey you kids! Get off your lawn too! n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

75. So how, exactly, do you propose to stop that tree from shedding its leaves in your yard?

Stand there and yell at it?

[A HERETIC I AM]

81. This one apparently got yelled at too much;

https://m.

Gotta love DU. Too much funny in this thread.

[Hekate]

131. Psychoanylize it. That tree has boundary issues, I can tell. nt

[alphafemale]

9. It is pretty ghastly.

The back yard I could see.

Two weeks seems like a more than reasonable time.

It will probably be torn apart long before that, anyway.

Not even that long if there is any rain to speak of.

[Comrade Grumpy]

18. Really? Cardboard boxes made into a kid's fort are "ghastly"?

[KittyWampus]

24. It'd look freaking awesome if it was painted gray with "grout lines" to make it look like real brick

[alphafemale]

26. Yes. It is trash. And cardboard attracts cockroaches for another thing.

Cardboard boxes are trash.

I'm fine with them milking this out for the full 14 days.

But it is not something to have on a front yard on any kind of permanent basis.

I have no comprehension why it was not in the backyard to begin with.

[panader0]

71. You sound like a lot of fun.

No kids I'm guessing. And cardboard boxes can be very useful for packing and storing a multitude of things, or mailing things.
Have you ever moved? I'll bet you had to pack your stuff in trash.

[alphafemale]

36. It's trash. And cardboard is notorious for attracting roaches.

Not to mention that moisture, even from just dew is going to set up a real mold issue.

I'd give them the 14 days but I really doubt it will survive that long.

[Hekate]

60. Leftover house paint seals and preserves cardboard a treat. I should know.

A hard rain would probably cause problems, but your basic fog and dew should not be too bad.

[LiberalElite]

61. Roaches outdoors? That's a new one on me.

[truebluegreen]

70. I don't know how cold the winter was in Utah this year

but I'm betting roaches in the front lawn are not a big problem at this point.

[MADem]

34. If this had been done in the back yard, it's likely no one would have said a word.

Further, if the "cardboard fort" had been WELL DONE, perhaps a bit of paint and decoration, even a few drawn "bricks" or stones, maybe a few flags, the neighbors would have smiled indulgently, or even rolled their eyes and said "Eh, KIDS!"

But that looks like some lazy a-holes moved in and tossed a bunch of boxes out on the yard. It looks like garbage. It doesn't look like a fort.

Cool fort:

[Hekate]

136. It was just a prototype. Some brainstorming with his neighbors and I bet ...

....it would look like the castle in your illustration.

[WillowTree]

42. Yeah. I was thinking he should either move it or rebuild it in the back yard.

Then he and his kids can enjoy it.......and I can understand why they would.......and the neighbors won't have to look at it. Kind of seems like a no-brainer to me.

[2naSalit]

140. Yeah

I don't get why it wasn't erected in the back yard either.

[drray23]

40. that is why

I will never buy a house in a subdivision that has HOA. Its just an excuse for nosy people to ruin your life and tell you what to do on your own property, sometimes bordering the absurd. Anyhow, I do not think the article mentioned the HOA, just a city ordinance.

[shraby]

43. That will last until the first good rain and the rain will "melt" the boxes. Let the kids enjoy them

for a while. What does it hurt?
It hurts a whole lot more to take the kids fun away, and that's a fact.

[Gormy Cuss]

48. Shush.

You're making too much sense.

[struggle4progress]

50. It's likely to rain or snow there this Wednesday

[Hekate]

66. Seriously

[mountain grammy]

88. Really, I was thinking the same thing..

it's temporary and imaginative.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

63. Oh come on - "every day"?The first good rain and the cardboard turns to soggy mush - problem solved.

[tabasco]

101. Who fucking cares? It's kids having fun.

Get a life.

[yeoman6987]

103. I did and live where it would NEVER happen

Now enough of the insults. Your more intelligent then that I hope.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

111. Where I live it could happen, and I wouldn't mind.

It's just kids having fun. The cardboard fort isn't especially attractive but it will fall apart before long, so who cares? Life is messy and chaotic and that's what makes it fun.

[tabasco]

170. "You're" n/t

[yeoman6987]

171. Ugh....I am trying...

[Bettie]

104. That was my thought...

chances are if no one had said anything, it would have come down before long anyway. Cardboard forts aren't all that durable, but they encourage imaginative play.

Nothing like the sound of children laughing and playing.

Way better than the sound of adults pissing and moaning about the sound of children being children.

[Sunlei]

159. their 'law' he has 15 days and then case closed. in my neighborhood, it's instant fine & 1k a day.

That community is behind the times.

My community has made millions off fines and and car/home seizures from those who could not afford to pay the fines and costs.

[Ron Green]

3. No biggie. Let the kids enjoy it for a couple of weeks,

and then take it away (it'll be pretty tired by then) before the fine is assessed.

[treestar]

7. IMO you're right

He could have used the back yard, too. The kids will not stick with that forever.

[demigoddess]

37. amen

works for me. Our neighbors have junk cars and grocery carts in their yard.

[GreatGazoo]

4. Step One: Leave it up for 14 days

Corregate is valued at $80 per ton. It has value.

[11 Bravo]

41. Lets assume there is 10 lbs of cardboard in the fort.

At $80 per ton, that's a whopping 40 cents. My wife and I are thinking about selling our house. If that pile of cardboard was in the front yard next door, I believe it would cost us considerably more than 40 cents off of our asking price..

[FSogol]

53. 10 pounds or 1 ton, what's the difference?

[Ms. Toad]

93. If I was looking to buy a home, it would increase the value -

Looks to me like the sign of a vibrant neighborhood full of kids having good old-fashioned fun.

[tridim]

5. Crowdsource the fines and keep it up as long as it stays dry.

Kids are supposed to play creatively. Denying that is criminal.

[Avalux]

8. What's the harm? It's temporary, he didn't build it with concrete blocks.

After it rains or gets ripped up it will be gone. HOAs are horrible.

[jberryhill]

17. What HOA?

There is no harm.

The notice from the city gave him 15 days to take it down.

Who leaves cardboard boxes in their yard that long?

[Avalux]

19. Sorry - it was the city not an HOA. n/t

[LiberalElite]

62. I'd expect a good rainstorm to take care of the problem in that time...

[Warren DeMontague]

10. That's a badass cardboard fort.

I'm sympathetic to the "eyesore" arguments, but really, it's cardboard. It's not going to survive more than one rainstorm. It isn't exactly permanent.

[BlueJazz]

11. Geez...it will probably rain in a day or two anyway.

[Politicalboi]

13. What's the harm

It's cardboard and it won't last forever. Let the kids have fun till it breaks or sags too much. This guy should set a gofundme so he can leave it up and pay the fines.

[hobbit709]

15. There's a Gladys Kravitz on every street.

[jwirr]

16. The city is nuts. When I was in kindergarten our school used cardboard boxes to build a child size

train including the engine and three seats for the children to set in. It was one of the most successful art projects the school ever produced.

[joeybee12]

22. He should have built it in the backyard...

Doubt anyone who have complained...well, someone might have, but while he has his supporters, I bet he'd have even more.

[alphafemale]

29. Exactly. The front yard is pretty regulated as far as what you can do for the sake of all eyes.

Unless you really live in the country....or in a blighted area with no standards.

In that case have at it.

[joeybee12]

33. I mean, it's neat that he did it for his kids...

But I can imagine not wanting to live next to it.

[JVS]

27. Was he even planning on keeping the fort up for 15 days?

[panader0]

28. I once installed a whole bunch of kitchen cabinets, all in different sized cardboard boxes.

My kids were or 6 at the time. I did the same thing, but in their upstairs room. I had to crawl through the fort to get to my bedroom.
They loved it. I finally took it down when I got tired of crawling through.

[Hekate]

68. That sounds so cool

[dembotoz]

30. yep out back

she who must be obeyed built a western theme couple of buildings and a mid evil castle in the backyard
for the middle childs birthday parties

guy i knew owned an appliance store and frig and other boxes....
he thought it was hilarious

she also used cardboard for summer enrichment classes at the local school(yes a teacher....)
at one time i could have told you how many knights shields you can get out of a refrigerator box

never any problems

although we did run into a fire inspection issue when she had all her "sets" in the basement
stray spark and that sucker would still be burning....

[Hekate]

69. That's just great. Boxes from big appliances are the BEST. nt

[Blue_Tires]

168. I miss the days when you could go to the loading dock at Sears

and just ask for a refrigerator box...Not only would they give it away for free, they would give you as many as you could carry (which would still be ONE)...

[AtomicKitten]

31. Boo! Hiss!

Jeez, it's made of cardboard. Fog and/or morning dew will saturate it pretty good and it will collapse on its own without having to tear it down. I say give the kids a few days to enjoy it. Don't the town sphincter police have anything better to do? Pretty soon there will be no dancing and then Kevin Bacon will have to get involved.

[KittyWampus]

35. town sphincter police LOLOLOLOL

DU'ers are some of the funniest people on the internets.

[AtomicKitten]

39. Set this little fella's fort free!

[Quantess]

32. IT'S BEAUTIFUL!!!

[MaggieD]

38. Be nice to your neighbors - use the backyard

I live in what used to be a nice neighborhood -- until some right winger moved in and decided to put an 8 foot high and 8 foot wide mound of fill dirt in his driveway and cover it with a blue tarp. That was 4 years ago. Looks like crap.

This year another neighbor decided to join him and tossed a huge pile of garbage (used above ground swimming pools parts and old decking) onto his front yard. I've determined that if one neighbor turns their front yard into a dump then others begin to think it's acceptable as well.

I hate to think how much this stuff would cost me, personally, if I was forced to sell my home.

[Trillo]

44. There shall be ORDER in that city.

Honesty is not allowed, the mask of ORDER will be imposed. Life is messy, and you're not allowed to display its messiness. Your kids can play in your yard, but when kids get together with kids of other families, it is to be under the supervision of a school or rec center, or if you're lucky, the local fast food joint with their playroom. Playtime for kids is supposed to be COSTLY!

Front yards are to be dedicated to lawns and landscaping, water is to be purchased to keep it alive, and chemicals from Big Chem are willing to help for a fee, along with machines and service personnel to keep it maintained. Big box stores stock all the merchandise for do-it-yourselfers.

It's really too bad there isn't somewhere this family can live & work and not be harassed by whomever made the complaint.

[tularetom]

51. If he leaves that stuff on his lawn more than a couple days it will kill the grass

And if he forgets to turn off the sprinklers (or if it rains) it will not even last a couple days.

[Hekate]

137. If he lives where it rains, the grass will grow back. Or so I've heard. It never rains in California

....so how would I know?

[Hekate]

54. There's no mention of an HOA. This isn't a condo or gated community. Someone griped to the City...

...and the City got a case of the stupids.

The neighbor with the grievance should have just walked across the street and knocked on the damn door, like an actual neighbor would do.

I hope the Trentelman family's back yard is big enough to reconstruct the wonderful fort. Hint: Leftover house paint will make cardboard last practically forever, or at least until it rains a lot.

[riderinthestorm]

58. The first rain storm will take it down. I'd just leave it up for a few days

let the kids enjoy it while watching the weather to take it down beforehand so you're not dealing with a sodden mass of cardboard.

It's cardboard. It's not permanent.

Then try to find the nasty neighbor who reported it.

Next time build it in the backyard.

[Throd]

65. The pantie-wadding is strong in this thread.

The guy is going to leave it up for a week. Moisture will break it down or curl up and the kids will have had their fun.

I used to live in a neighborhood where I would have loved that to be my biggest concern.

[Smarmie Doofus]

67. Frankly, given the state of the world right now.....

... a cardboard negotiating table would be a MUCH better idea.

[Coventina]

82. Can you say "First World Problem"? I knew you could!!

at anyone who thinks this is something worth getting upset about.

[guillaumeb]

84. send in the SWAT team

looks like a stronghold for terrorists to me

check out the firing slots in the front wall.

[Contrary1]

89. I told my realtor to not bother showing us any more homes that had an HOA

We did find a house we loved, but the 8 pages of rules and regulations turned us sour on it. This wasn't in a gated community, and every home had at least two acres of property.

We walked after seeing there was a two pet limit for inside animals, and even a regulation as to their size.

No thanks, I would rather look at a cardboard fort.

[Coventina]

91. Yep, NEVER AGAIN will I EVER have an HOA.

It's basically saying "I WANT to live in a totalitarian state!!"

[tammywammy]

100. This isn't a HOA issue, it's a city ordinance. n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

112. In some cities, the ordinances and the inspectors are almost as bad as HOAs.

[Trillo]

118. You have to wonder if the spread of HOAs has in turn

affected folks expectations and even code for non-HOA places.

[alarimer]

143. I hate them too.

My parents are in a neighborhood with such an arrangement. It's a pain. No cars on the street, with some exceptions for holidays, lots of dumb rules about paint (nothing but monotonous beige, or various shades of it). Bland, bland, bland. Lots of nitpicky stuff. It's ironic because my dad is a Republican who chafes at various government rules. But I guess HOA rules are okay? Rules made by elected officials are terrible, but rules made by quasi-governmental UNELECTED people are a-ok?

I don't get it.

[MisterP]

105. ahh, HOAs--Lord Acton was wrong: people get crazier the less power they have

[johnnysad]

106. Some of you members forgot what it's like to be a kid

[Liberal_in_LA]

116. exactly. Great dad for building this. maybe he can move it to backyard

[one_voice]

117. Not the most...

appealing thing to look at, but I wouldn't care. Plus the first hard rain will bring it down. He should rebuild it in the backyard. I remember what it was like to be a kid.

My neighbors JUST took down their Christmas decorations. They had those big blow up things on their front lawn--occasionally they inflated them so their kid could go out look at them, he liked them.

I'm one of those people that keeps their lawn cut, leaves raked, etc. But as long as people don't have trash piling up, rusted out cars and things of that sort, I pretty much mind my biz. It's their yard.

[pnwmom]

119. Is there a reason they didn't build it in the back yard? Could it be moved there? n/t

[Chellee]

126. Yes.

That was mentioned in the comments of the article. There are lots of thorny bushes in the backyard that are in the process of being removed.

[KMOD]

122. How disgusting!

Can't this guy buy his kid some gaming software for his kids to build a virtual fort on their laptop, PS4, Xbox or iphone?

Why the hell should the neighbors be subjected to this obscene eyesore of children playing outside in a freaking cardboard fort? That fort may actually last a few weeks. That's a few weeks of shear horror of watching actual children participating in creative play, and outside for all to see.

Plus, it's just so very gross to look at. It's cardboard! Ugggh!!! Cardboard is the most disgusting material ever made.

That man should be thrown in jail for tormenting his neighbors like that. My heart is with the pain and suffering that the neighbors are going through because of this jerk's actions. I know it would give me nightmares.

[Coventina]

123. Won't someone PLEASE think of the grumpy old men!!

[uppityperson]

169. seriously!!!!

I miss having small children, cardboard boxes and yarn monster traps around. My floor still has hot lava between the rugs though.

[Jenoch]

125. I have not yet read any of the responses to

this thread. I think the city should lighten up. I understand he need for a city ordinance about junk in the front yards. However, this is not junk. It is a few boxes for children's play. If the boxes were in rough whape and had been there for many consecutive weeks, then things woukd be different.

I saw a TV news report that said some neighbors built forts out of cardboard boxes in their front yards to show support.

If the code enforcement officer cited somebody for having their car on their lawn to aid in loading lawn clippings, then that code enforcement officer needs to be retrained to better identify true violations of the code.

[Chellee]

130. Well, have you read them yet?

Some of our membership have really taken to heart the symbol of our party. It's been eye-opening.

[davidsilver]

138. I feel sorry for the kids

[Monk06]

139. You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person.

I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts.

[SidDithers]

142. Fetchez la vache!!...nt

Sid

[Puglover]

144. My HOA was not registered correctly as an HOA when the development

was started. So it reverted to a simple city neighborhood governed by the municipio. (This is Ecuador). To return to an HOA they need all 23 owners to sign off on it.

Not gonna happen.

[ScreamingMeemie]

147. You lucky, lucky thing...

My HOA has basically become a monarchy.

[Puglover]

155. Oh believe me.

I jumped for joy. I was told once that "If asking for volunteers to serve on a HOA the first folks to raise their hands are the last people who should be on the board."

And that was the case with the idiots that were trying to turn my neighborhood into Myanmar.

When people started to talk about gathering signatures to reinstate the HOA I quickly told anyone who wanted to listen to not even bother to ask me.

Reading through some of the posts in this thread reminds me of their mindset. Ugh.

[Orsino]

145. Fucking Obama.

Just letting enemies waltz right in.

[treestar]

149. lol

thanks Obama!

[Mike Daniels]

156. Really cute idea but even knowing it's a "fort" I still think it looks too much like yard trash

If it were colored differently vs. cardboard box beige I might think differently but if I lived in the neighborhood I wouldn't want to see the present version every day.

That said, the first good rain storm will pretty much take care of the fort if it's permanently outside.

[Sunlei]

157. local govs are the most oppressive of all, even on your own land. don't break the leash law for cats

Ogden City’s codes and Ordinance 13-2-6:A Dogs and cats shall be leashed at all times they are off their own property

They even have 24 hour web services so any neighbor can turn in another.

[pipi_k]

158. I suspect

there might be more to this story than we're reading in the article.

What...they don't have a back yard?


It sounds to me like the guy is giving a giant middle finger to the city and I would bet that he and the city may have had a few confrontations over various issues in the past.

[JustAnotherGen]

163. Yet another big difference between being a kid in the 70s/80s and today

The Barney Fife squad in our small town knew if we were playing in a cardboard fort -

We weren't doing hooligan things - and they were happy about that!

[PoliticAverse]

166. So the city gave it 15 days to rain and render the matter moot. n/t

[Glassunion]

175. I both love it and hate it.

It is an awesome project, and the kids seem to be enjoying it.

It is really ugly.

I applaud the project, however in consideration of my neighbors, I'd have built it in the back yard.

[DeadLetterOffice]

179. The only conclusion I can reach from the OP & some responses...

...is that city people are seriously weird.

Getting all upset about leaves? And cardboard? And crabgrass? Wtf?
Can't imagine you'd take too well to the mess the manure spreaders leave on our roads each spring and autumn.

I will stay out here in the country with my 'lack of standards,' thank you very much.