Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:09 PM Apr 2015

Brontosaurus is back!



Scientists restore the good name of Brontosaurus

By Will Dunham
Reuters, Tuesday, April 7, 2015

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Paleontologists are restoring the good name of Brontosaurus more than a century after it was deemed scientifically invalid and the famous dinosaur was reclassified as another genus called Apatosaurus.

They unveiled on Tuesday an exhaustive analysis of Brontosaurus remains, first unearthed in the 1870s, and those of closely related dinosaurs, determining that the immense, long-necked plant-eater was not an Apatosaurus and deserved its old name back.

Paleontologist Emanuel Tschopp of Portugal’s Universidade Nova de Lisboa cited important anatomical differences including Apatosaurus possessing a wider neck than Brontosaurus and being even more massively built.

“The differences between Apatosaurus and Brontosaurus are numerous enough to revive Brontosaurus as a separate genus from Apatosaurus,” Tschopp said.

Brontosaurus, which lived in North America around 150 million years ago in the Jurassic Period, was about 72 feet (22 meters) long and weighed about 40 tons.

“Brontosaurus and T. rex are the two most popular dinosaur names ever,” said Universidade Nova de Lisboa paleontologist Octávio Mateus. “Even 112 years after paleontologists considered it invalid, the name Brontosaurus still echoes in the popular culture. It was indeed a very cool dinosaur name.”

CONTINUED...

http://newsdaily.com/2015/04/scientists-restore-the-good-name-of-brontosaurus/

PeerJ article: https://peerj.com/articles/857/

Now if only we could restore Pluto to planethood...
70 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Brontosaurus is back! (Original Post) Octafish Apr 2015 OP
YES! Brontosaurus, how I missed you! (nt) Nye Bevan Apr 2015 #1
Big thumbs up, if any were around back then. Octafish Apr 2015 #6
OMG, they were bigger than the entire landmass??????? BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2015 #25
Giantism is not a joke, BlancheSplanchnik! Octafish Apr 2015 #44
Bigger beings consume more and release more energy than do smaller beings...... BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2015 #58
What supported Atlas? PeoViejo Apr 2015 #55
! BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2015 #59
Amen! shenmue Apr 2015 #2
Pluto probe set to report this summer... Octafish Apr 2015 #9
Pluto could be on its way back to planethood as well starroute Apr 2015 #19
Some scientists can be most undemocratic. Octafish Apr 2015 #29
There are all sorts of conspiracy theories out there about NASA starroute Apr 2015 #31
That's one of those phrases that can mean what it doesn't. Octafish Apr 2015 #60
"My guess is that the bright thing is a frozen volcanic eruption of subsurface ice." Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2015 #68
I agree Pluto and Ceres are full planets, but I think it's all going to seem pretty irrelevant soon Sen. Walter Sobchak Apr 2015 #51
The picture in your post Egnever Apr 2015 #3
Carnegie Museum of Natural History - 1934 Octafish Apr 2015 #7
You beat me to it. :-) frogmarch Apr 2015 #11
Unlike Marsh and Cope, we're on the same side! Octafish Apr 2015 #15
That was a well-done article on frogmarch Apr 2015 #21
Brontosaurus with wrong skull frogmarch Apr 2015 #10
Facinating! Change has come Apr 2015 #4
Life is miraculous. Octafish Apr 2015 #14
We've always called the Brontosaurus a Brontosaurus and it's a pain in the ass Brother Buzz Apr 2015 #5
Isn't that a Brachiosaurus? Octafish Apr 2015 #8
I think you're correct... Brother Buzz Apr 2015 #13
I am glad that the Brontosaurus is back Gothmog Apr 2015 #12
Isn't it, though? Octafish Apr 2015 #17
I can haz brontosaurus burger? Cirque du So-What Apr 2015 #16
Absolutely. Oh, no, it wasn't the airplanes. Octafish Apr 2015 #18
Or I can has big side of brontosaurus ribs? calimary Apr 2015 #42
I agree Pluto should be re-recognized as a planet, but I'm not so sure about the brontosaurus. rhett o rick Apr 2015 #20
Riiight. What's a cubit? Octafish Apr 2015 #37
I love Brontosaurus even more than you! Recursion Apr 2015 #22
Love is one idea there's never enough of in action. Octafish Apr 2015 #38
As a complement to your post... Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #64
I wonder which this was... yuiyoshida Apr 2015 #23
It's the elusive Gasosaurus jmowreader Apr 2015 #24
Better to wonder why people who believe the earth is 6000 years old want to kill for a fossil fuel. Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2015 #28
Well that's easy... yuiyoshida Apr 2015 #30
If that's true, why weigh themselves down with an SUV? Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2015 #32
Republicans want to take it with them.. yuiyoshida Apr 2015 #34
That's because they define themselves by their status and that includes their possessions. Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2015 #35
That's the proper and true shade of Dinosaur Green. Octafish Apr 2015 #39
brontosaurus and stegosaurus were my faves. BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2015 #26
T-rex got left out? Octafish Apr 2015 #49
LoLoL! welllll.....nothing against t-rex!!! BlancheSplanchnik Apr 2015 #56
All together now!!!! Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2015 #27
Fred could be my twin. Octafish Apr 2015 #52
Does that mean you look like John Goodman? Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2015 #57
Big Lebowski John Goodman with an overbite that's noticeable when I eat. Octafish Apr 2015 #63
Could be worse... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2015 #65
Hahahahahaha!!!!! Octafish Apr 2015 #67
ROFL! pinboy3niner Apr 2015 #70
Brontosaurus just sounds better. Glad Bronte got a restoration of her respectability. Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #33
Elizabeth Brontesaur Octafish Apr 2015 #47
She's pretty. Dont call me Shirley Apr 2015 #61
It Has Always Been "Brontosaurus" To Me Liberal_Dog Apr 2015 #36
Truth. Octafish Apr 2015 #53
Back again! randome Apr 2015 #40
Brontosaurus is a Democratic Theme. Octafish Apr 2015 #54
Anne Elk's theory on the brontosaurus G_j Apr 2015 #41
Purest Science Octafish Apr 2015 #45
this theory of yours seems to have hit the nail on the head. G_j Apr 2015 #48
Enlightenment. Octafish Apr 2015 #66
it was G_j Apr 2015 #69
WAY cool thread! calimary Apr 2015 #43
Justice demands it. Octafish Apr 2015 #46
A mere ruse by the Brontosuarial Industrial Complex to sell more... LanternWaste Apr 2015 #50
''Money trumps peace.'' -- appointed pretzeldent George Walker Bush, Feb. 14, 2007 Octafish Apr 2015 #62

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
44. Giantism is not a joke, BlancheSplanchnik!
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 01:41 PM
Apr 2015


Now aliens, they might be reeeeeeeeeally big. Big. Big. Big.

Aliens could be huge, says scientist

EXCERPT...

University of Barcelona cosmologist Fergus Simpson has been thinking deeply about alien size. He recently published a paper entitled "The Nature of Inhabited Planets And Their Inhabitants."

He relies on a mathematical model that says other planets conserve energy just like we do. "Throughout the animal kingdom, species which are physically larger invariably possess a lower population density, possibly due to their enhanced energy demands," he says.

Bigger beings consume more and release more energy than do smaller beings.

Earth, he says, "constitutes a simple random sample amongst inhabited planets." We have more smaller beings than larger ones. He doesn't believe, however, that Earth is a fair sample. Instead, he says that "most inhabited planets are likely to be closer in size to Mars than the Earth."

If that is true, then "since population density is widely observed to decline with increasing body mass, we conclude that most intelligent species are expected to exceed 300kg." Yes, that would be 650 pounds.

CONTINUED...


This alien has a big body, but a small head.



That's more like my self-portrait, though, dinosaur dat I am.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
19. Pluto could be on its way back to planethood as well
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 11:03 PM
Apr 2015
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2015/02/25/pluto-ceres-planet-again/#.VSXri6JRGSo

I expect 2015 will be the year when general consensus, built upon our new knowledge of these two objects, will return Pluto and add Ceres to our family of solar system planets.

The efforts of a very small clique of Pluto-haters within the International Astronomical Union (IAU) plutoed Pluto in 2006. Of the approximately 10,000 internationally registered members of the IAU in 2006, only 237 voted in favor of the resolution redefining Pluto as a “dwarf planet” while 157 voted against; the other 9,500 members were not present at the closing session of the IAU General Assembly in Prague at which the vote to demote Pluto was taken. Yet Pluto’s official planetary status was snatched away.

Ceres and Pluto are both spheroidal objects, like Mercury, Earth, Jupiter and Saturn. That’s part of the agreed upon definition of a planet. They both orbit a star, the Sun, like Venus, Mars, Uranus and Neptune. That’s also part of the widely accepted definition of a planet.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
29. Some scientists can be most undemocratic.
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 12:11 AM
Apr 2015

Have you heard anything new from Ceres, starroute? There were the fascinating pictures with the white protrusions that are all but forgotten now.



I can no longer find the GIF that showed the spots as they moved with the planetoid's rotation. I remember -- perhaps mistakenly -- that the white portion seemed to remain as they followed past the terminator, before going completely to the far side. I'll post if I can find the thing.

Dawn has not been taking pictures during the descent thus far because the probe has been on Ceres' dark side. Dawn will capture some images on April 10 and April 14 for navigation purposes, but the best photos won't start rolling in until the science campaign starts. -- http://www.space.com/29043-dawn-spacecraft-one-month-ceres.html


Not talking about truth, but the fundamental approach to knowledge, specifically in its sharing is truly democratic. Guess they've found there's more money to be made by limiting its distribution and then selling what's in short supply.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
31. There are all sorts of conspiracy theories out there about NASA
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 01:36 AM
Apr 2015

I read them, take them with a grain of salt, and move on. Most of them involve the idea that NASA is hiding something -- ranging from alien artifacts or the US military having a covert space program that's a century ahead of anything we know about to simply the idea that they have good evidence of low-level life and don't want to stir up the fundies.

The last of those seems vaguely plausible -- the others not -- but in any case we'll see what they come up with when more pictures are released.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
60. That's one of those phrases that can mean what it doesn't.
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:41 PM
Apr 2015


My guess is that the bright thing is a frozen volcanic eruption of subsurface ice. Once the gusher breaks through the crater basin, it freezes as it starts to shoot up.



Probably something else, as things that far out from the sun don't get all that hot -- unless one face stares at the sun for extended periods. Ceres spins.



The Fundies may yet soil their undies. Can't wait to see more images.
 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
68. "My guess is that the bright thing is a frozen volcanic eruption of subsurface ice."
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 06:34 PM
Apr 2015

Mine would be all of Cerus is an ice ball covered in billions of years of interplanetary dust. Any recent impact would expose the actual surface.

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
51. I agree Pluto and Ceres are full planets, but I think it's all going to seem pretty irrelevant soon
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:51 PM
Apr 2015

Small wet moons are going to be of much greater interest than lifeless rocks of any size anywhere in the solar system.

frogmarch

(12,153 posts)
21. That was a well-done article on
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 11:08 PM
Apr 2015

the Dino Wars. Thanks for posting it. Quite a story this was - and is!

Here's a PBS American Experience doc "Dinosaur Wars." I just found it and haven't watched it yet, but I think it may be the full documentary.

frogmarch

(12,153 posts)
10. Brontosaurus with wrong skull
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:43 PM
Apr 2015
http://www.npr.org/2012/12/09/166665795/forget-extinct-the-brontosaurus-never-even-existed

Photo caption:

"This photograph from 1934 and shows the Carnegie Museum's Apatosaurus skeleton on the right — wearing the wrong skull."

Carnegie Museum of Natural History

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
14. Life is miraculous.
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:53 PM
Apr 2015

A comparison shows dinosaur skulls used in the study to classify Diplodocidae dinosaurs, including the Apatosaurus and the disputed Brontosaurus. (Emanuel Tschopp et. al, PeerJ)



Brontosaurus and Apatosaurus, and all the sauropods, are beautiful.

What remains unclear is whether Brontosaurus is here to stay. Southern Methodist University paleontologist Louis Jacobs praises the new study. “Numerous new sauropods have been discovered and named in the last couple of decades, new techniques have been developed, and we simply have a more sophisticated understanding of sauropods now,” he says. The potential resurrection comes out of this burgeoning understanding. In short, Jacobs says, “good for them, and bully for Brontosaurus!” -- http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/back-brontosaurus-dinosaur-just-might-deserve-its-own-genus-species-science-180954892/?no-ist


PS: You are most welcome, Change has come!

PPS: I think I see where my severe overbite comes from -- check out "E."

Brother Buzz

(36,387 posts)
5. We've always called the Brontosaurus a Brontosaurus and it's a pain in the ass
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:33 PM
Apr 2015

They become a real nuisance in late fall when they discover and devour the budding illicit marijuana plots in the hills, then wander down and rampage lethargically through the local farmers markets. They've grown extremely fond of the baked goods. They favor the sticky buns and raisin bread in particular. After consuming all the pot and baked goods they fall over in the streets and slumber. That's when men wearing dark glasses fly in with their helicopters and relocate them far back in the hills, only to have the event repeat itself the following year.

The pot farmers want the pesky Brontosaurus removed from the endangered species list and the baker is spearheading the movement.

I did not take this photo but I witnessed the event. The photograph is not photoshopped.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
8. Isn't that a Brachiosaurus?
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:41 PM
Apr 2015

It's front legs seem longer than its back ones.

Great photo, BTW. Didn't know dinosaurs were into that sort of thing.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
17. Isn't it, though?
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:59 PM
Apr 2015

When people corrected me for using the name, I felt a certain sadness -- not just for me or them, but for a creature which once existed, then did not.

Now that it exists again, maybe we'll see more examples of what once was lost is now found.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
20. I agree Pluto should be re-recognized as a planet, but I'm not so sure about the brontosaurus.
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 11:04 PM
Apr 2015

Really, he wouldn't have fit on the ark.

jmowreader

(50,530 posts)
24. It's the elusive Gasosaurus
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 11:21 PM
Apr 2015

Renowned for its ability to decay into the purest gasoline imaginable, Gasosaurus' most easily identifiable feature is that all four of its legs are set on a straight line running right down the middle of the beast.

Gasosaurus did not die out with the rest of the dinosaurs; he evolved into the Shmoo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmoo

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
49. T-rex got left out?
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:17 PM
Apr 2015

That top o' the food chain predator evolved into today's GOP bird-brain mindset.



As for the domestication of cats, they guard us from the ungnome.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
56. LoLoL! welllll.....nothing against t-rex!!!
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:26 PM
Apr 2015

Brontosaurus and stegosaurus are just cuter, that's all....

But how was I to know, tyrannosaurus would become such a comedian?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
52. Fred could be my twin.
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:54 PM
Apr 2015


Poets are the unrecognized rulers of the universe.



Then, again, you knew that, Spitfire of ATJ.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
63. Big Lebowski John Goodman with an overbite that's noticeable when I eat.
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 05:24 PM
Apr 2015


Not the Fred Flintstone John Goodman with the Wilma and Betty thing. Gosh, though, now come to think of it! Wow.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
67. Hahahahahaha!!!!!
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 05:48 PM
Apr 2015

THAT's IT!!!!!!!! Exactly. Precisely. Perfectly. Even the color.

Thank you, Spitfire of ATJ.

As a second grader, I owned a blue T-rex. It looked something like this:



If anyone reading lost a blue T-rex at Stottlemyer School about 1964, I still owe you a T-rex.


Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
33. Brontosaurus just sounds better. Glad Bronte got a restoration of her respectability.
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 08:58 AM
Apr 2015


As for Pluto, if they put Pluto back as a planet, all my old astrology books would be vindicated. WooWoo!



Octafish

(55,745 posts)
47. Elizabeth Brontesaur
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:09 PM
Apr 2015


Through time and space.

NASA Extends Campaign to Name Features on Pluto

EXCERPT...

“Due to increasing interest and the number of submissions we’re getting, it was clear we needed to extend this public outreach activity,” said Jim Green, director of NASA’s Planetary Science Division at the agency’s headquarters in Washington. “This campaign not only reveals the public’s excitement about the mission, but helps the team, which will not have time to come up with names during the flyby, to have a ready-made library of names in advance to officially submit to the IAU.”

CONTINUED...

http://www.nasa.gov/press/2015/april/nasa-extends-campaign-for-public-to-name-features-on-pluto/


All are connected.

Liberal_Dog

(11,075 posts)
36. It Has Always Been "Brontosaurus" To Me
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 10:40 AM
Apr 2015

I never used that other name. So, it is way cool that this has finally happened.



K & R.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
53. Truth.
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 03:01 PM
Apr 2015

You can't bear to say things that aren't. Like a Turning Point in a movie -- the good ones. Naming things by their proper names is a step toward Justice.



Like when referring to pretzeldent Smirko McCokespoon as "President George W Bush." Couldn't utter it, even in a business environment where the agenda including mention of the governor or Texas. Barfed at the thought of the Big Lie.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
40. Back again!
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 12:40 PM
Apr 2015

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
45. Purest Science
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:00 PM
Apr 2015

LOLOLOLOLOLOL from the Triassic through the Cretaceous! Thank you G_j! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!



Plus that's MY theory, too. Just because someone else said it first doesn't mean it isn't true. Ahem. Cough.

G_j

(40,366 posts)
48. this theory of yours seems to have hit the nail on the head.
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:13 PM
Apr 2015

Elk: The Theory by A. Elk brackets Miss brackets. My theory is along the following lines.

Host: Oh God.

Elk: All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much MUCH thicker in the middle, and then thin again at the far end. That is the theory that I have and which is mine, and what it is too.

Host: That's it, is it?

Elk: Right, Chris.

Host: Well, Anne, this theory of yours seems to have hit the nail on the head.

Elk: And it's mine.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
66. Enlightenment.
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 05:41 PM
Apr 2015

Television has never known, nor will it ever know again; yay, nor humanity has ever known, nor will ever know again; a moment in our time passing through that particular point of purity, peace, and perfection. The world made sense -- as in that it is both a comedy and a tragedy and it's a blessing and a privilege (not curse and sentence) to be part of it.



In fact, if that moment with Miss Elk didn't enlighten every viewer, we may be beyond the reach of the flame of wisdom, were it not for Mr. Tony Orlando, who once said on network television:

"If you could put all the laughs that Bob Hope has gotten, one after another, they would stretch all the way to the universe and fill up the black hole in space."


At which point, my mind became clear and it was as if I, for that one brief instant, was one with -- and transparent to -- the great Beyond-ish. And we hope for Others to Visit who are Good, rather than Ones who are closer to what we -- as in humanity -- Deserve.

G_j

(40,366 posts)
69. it was
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 10:43 PM
Apr 2015

luckily the ripples travel far, even through time.
Humor is health, like inner jogging. It's also a glimpse of a clarity into who we are. There are Zen moments, that was one. I never would have thought of it.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
46. Justice demands it.
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:03 PM
Apr 2015


New Horizons: Pluto lander would be 'spectacular' next mission

by Hannah Osborne
International Business Times, April 8, 2015 17:32 BST

A Pluto lander would be a "spectacular" next mission after New Horizons, as the planet could potentially be used as an observatory, an expert has said.

Alan Stern, principal investigator of the New Horizons mission, spoke to IBTimes UK as the team gears up for the closest ever encounter with Pluto in July.

Over the coming weeks, Stern said the team will be making their final preparations: "April is a very busy time for us," he said. "We have the first observations from a number of instruments on board. We're doing a lot of navigation to home in on Pluto. We're planning a homing burn, meaning an engine trajectory correction in May.

"We're also conducting the last few mission simulations to train our team and prepare for the encounter. There are three of them in April and they're all very important."

New Horizons is just two months away from its flyby of Pluto, having launched in January 2006. At time of writing, it was 115 million kilometres (71 million miles) from the dwarf planet.

CONTINUED...

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-horizons-pluto-lander-would-be-spectacular-next-mission-1495456
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
50. A mere ruse by the Brontosuarial Industrial Complex to sell more...
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 02:43 PM
Apr 2015

A mere ruse by the Brontosuarial Industrial Complex to sell even more chicken bones to an unsuspecting public.








(This is how I fashionably advertise my half-witted (though trendy) skepticism and cynicism-- it's really the In Thing these days)

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
62. ''Money trumps peace.'' -- appointed pretzeldent George Walker Bush, Feb. 14, 2007
Thu Apr 9, 2015, 05:22 PM
Apr 2015

"You know, General Sherman had it all wrong. It's not war that's hell, it's peace that's hell." -- former Sec. of Defense (and former CIA director) James Schlesinger, honored at the Military Order of the Carabao luncheon, 2002.

http://www.thebaffler.com/salvos/in-the-good-old-wallow-time

also great reading:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2003-01-28/news/the-empire-strikes-back/

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Brontosaurus is back!