Hillary Clinton can not beat Jeb Bush

[Harmony Blue]

The fundamental problem is that the ordinary citizen can not relate to Hillary Clinton. On the other hand ordinary citizens can relate to Jeb Bush as he was popular as governor in the state of Florida. If people underestimate Jeb Bush they are in for a rude awakening.

[babylonsister]

1. Wow. How about ordinary women?

You don't think they can relate to another woman who has worked tirelessly for their best interests?

I think you're wrong. And don't forget his idiotic brother whom everyone will connect him to.

[xmas74]

164. Most of the women I've worked with over the past few days

have spoken about nothing but, often in hushed tones. They're excited about her running. One woman I work with came in to work this morning and said she was at the courthouse, registering to vote. She'd never registered before and this was enough to make her do so. She said she can't wait until next year when she can cast a vote during the primaries.

(The hushed tones? A number of the men we work with have mouthed her nonstop, saying every rotten thing imaginable. We've learned to tune them out over the years and this was no different.)

[davidn3600]

169. So you are suggesting that women are only voting for Hillary because she's a woman?

[seabeyond]

173. if that were the case, the one woman would have registered in 2008 to vote palin.

[davidn3600]

174. Palin was a VP candidate picked to shore up the right-wing extremist vote

She wasn't running for president.

And Palin also wasn't the first woman to run as a VP candidate either.

[seabeyond]

175. i am well aware who palin is. and next step from vp is pres. if voting only for woman,

then she would get a vote.

i imagine clinton is more inline with their political leanings, dont you? seeing how excited they are voting for her.

[davidn3600]

176. Sure...because she's a woman!

That's my point.

The only time this female coworker had any interest in voting in any election in this country is when a woman is running for president? But then you claim that it must have absolutely nothing to do with the fact Hillary is a woman? Even though you do not know this co-worker personally.

[seabeyond]

179. you asked if it was only cause it was a woman and obviously that is not the only reason

she is voting. as a matter of fact, there is no mention that it is cause it is a woman, but cause it is hillary she is excited about. you do the "only a woman" crap.

further, it is like media doing the kerry election

anyone but bush, bullshit.

[seabeyond]

182. and something else david. i dont vote because a person was black, or cause woman. but...

if a black person wants to vote for the first black man running for office.... fuggin good for him. he deserves. and if women want to vote for the first woman running for pres, then fuggin' good for them.

it is about damn time with white men having the starring role to this point of time.

[davidn3600]

186. So we have to put the country and progressive beliefs on hold so you can elect THIS person?

Why not find a true progressive woman that doesn't vote for trillion+ dollar wars and the military industrial complex? Why not find a progressive woman that doesn't favor destroying the labor market with more H1B visas that corporations don't need? Why not find a progressive woman who truly cares about labor and the middle class. But we have to put all this aside and vote based on genitalia?

If you want to play that kind of game and vote for people based on skin color and what they have between their legs? It's your vote to do what you want. That's your business. But what a candidate believes in and supports is a bit more important to me. That's what matters to me, personally. I want to vote for people who are going to move this country forward in the right direction and favor progressive ideals and policies. And I don't give a damn what their skin color or gender is. That's not my concern when I listen to candidates talk. Maybe that's just because I'm a "privileged white male." But I vote based on what's important for the country, for everybody.

I'm not going to put aside my beliefs in everything just so we can say "we finally have a female president." Why? Because I know it will happen eventually anyway. It's inevitable that a woman will be president. It's not like Hillary will be the only female candidate ever again.

[seabeyond]

189. damn, this is old. she is more than qualified. womens issues is part of the political make up

as is race issues. and hillary being elected certainly falls into that category, whether i support her or not, i am not too stupid to not recognize that fact.

and yes....

Maybe that's just because I'm a "privileged white male."

that is exactly what it is. the start of finding a solution is recognizing the problem.

have the last word

[davidn3600]

192. Never did I say she wasn't qualified

I just saying there are several things I don't agree with her on. If a more progressive candidate enters the race, that is where my vote is going.

The most qualified candidate doesn't always win. Otherwise Hillary and McCain would have beaten Obama.

[graegoyle]

199. Bwahahahaha!

[xmas74]

193. No. They are voting for her because they know who she is

and feel that she will fight for them, compared to what else is out there and what else might be out there.

I think that's all that needs to be said.

[babylonsister]

177. Thank you for this. They must know she fights for women.

Maybe the women want the neanderthals to chill out?!

[xmas74]

194. I work with many older women.

The woman finally registering yesterday? She's a grandmother. She actually said (and I quote) "I thought Roe v Wade ended this shit. At least she'll protect my granddaughter's rights."

(The conversation was about the young woman who was denied a prescription from Walmart to bring on her miscarriage. She said she'd had two miscarriages when she was young and that if a med could have helped instead of her D&C she gladly would have taken it and someone denying someone else a prescription made her angry. She also said that, though she didn't believe in abortion for herself she remembers the back alley days and doesn't want a return.)

She likes her for other reasons: she knows her, she felt that she and Bill had a good partnership and feels as though that would continue with her in office, she feels that she would be more likely to protect minority rights and she made comments about the Supreme Court. She also referred to her still new grandmother status, saying she thought that they were good parents and seem to be wonderful grandparents. (In other words, she's found something in common with them.)

[onehandle]

2. Well, he is 'Hispanic.'

People really admire the brother of a war criminal who either can't fill out a form, or simply lies on them.

Thank you for your 'concern.'

[cali]

7. She consistently polls much better than Jebby in Florida.

[krawhitham]

149. latest poll has Jebby winning by 3 points

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?ReleaseID=2180

[dsc]

221. they have all sorts of crazy polls

this outfit has Strickland up by nearly double digits, Toomey up by about the same. Neither of those are even remotely likely. This firm has some real problems. The average of polls has her up by a consistent amount.

[Trajan]

3. oh yes ... Jeb Bush is unbeatable ... No doubt about it

Jeb Bush is going to clean our clocks, and then eat our lunch (He is having peanut butter and jelly sandwiches today, with a tiny box of raisins!)

Once Jeb gets in the race, we are fucking DOOMED!

DUH DUH DU- DUHHHHHHHH!

[NYC_SKP]

4. Yeah, but will Jeb Bush get in a van and stage 100s of pics with "regular people", like this?

I mean, be prepared for THOUSANDS of these to be published in the coming weeks, because, yanno, she's just like us.










.







.







.








.

[cali]

12. Jaysus. Look, you know I'm no supporter of Hillary's, but really?

She's a fuck of a lot easier to relate to than Jeb.

[m-lekktor]

32. not all that much easier for me. nt

[Historic NY]

69. Wasn't a problem for Ny'ers when she was Senator....

never knew when Bill & Hill would show at a park or historic site.

[BainsBane]

99. You don't have to relate

You're not going to have a beer with any President, ever. They aren't your friends. We are electing someone to run the country.

[seabeyond]

108. hire to do a fuggin' job. that beer thing was the only way to sell bush. i thought it always

stupid.

especially the dry drunk he is, there is no way i would want a beer with him. betcha gotta tippy toe around his drunk.

[emulatorloo]

89. HRC went to work for the Children's Defense Fund after graduating law school

She's been working on children's issues and has been an strong advocate for a long time.

Vomit all you like, it doesn't reflect well on you though.

[NYC_SKP]

123. Did she teach any of them to be hedge fund traders?

Did she do anything to help American childrens' parents recover from the jobs that NAFTA sent over the border?

No, she didn't.

She does what she does to promote herself.

It's a sad sad thing.

[Darb]

94. Stooopid.

Unless you want Jeb to win. Then Brilliant!

[LanternWaste]

145. Your prophecies will be given all the credibility they in fact, warrant.

Your prophecies will be given all the credibility they in fact, warrant.

Thousands! he proclaims righteously. Thousands of pictures. Just. Like. This.

The horror... the horror.

[JaneyVee]

188. You have anger issues.

[graegoyle]

200. Wow. Hilary is a great innovator!

Never before has a candidate had pictures taken in the presence of other humans.


They usually just use stock photos from web sites.

[Puglover]

5. I don't know if she can or can't.

I hope she does.

But I do feel like posters are acting as if her Presidency is a done deal stupid!

Thom Hartmann said yesterday this is going to be a tough election and a nail biter. I believe him.

[cali]

6. sure she can. She may or may not if he's the nominee, but it's fucking ridiculous

to flatly state that she can't. And guess what? The polls I've seen, have her BEATING him in Florida.

And I don't think he's so easy for "ordinary people" to relate to.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_bush_vs_clinton-3827.html

your post is just silly. put away the crystal ball. It's all smudgy.

[OKNancy]

8. LOL

[url=http://www.servimg.com/view/11715825/1482][img][/img][/url]

[Blue_Adept]

119. Pfft. Reality based math.

You're new around here, aren't you?

[mcar]

9. Floridian here

You couldn't be more wrong. Jeb has the "to the manor born" aura down pat. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

But thanks for letting us know what today's anti-Hillary meme is.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

75. I'm a Floridian too, and I see something different.

I have a ton of my coworkers that love Jeb because (and this is their statements), he comes off as personable and friendly. I too think Hillary would have an uphill climb against him.

Just because you live in Florida doesnt mean you get to speak for the entire state.

[seabeyond]

80. i live in texas. they feel the same way about georgie. the rest of the nation does not see bush's

in the same manner.

[mcar]

115. They obviously weren't here when he was governor

The OP was speaking for the entire electorate. I was responding in kind.

[TampaAnimusVortex]

126. Actually they were living here at that time.

Whats the insistance that everyone see the world through your perspective?

[Harmony Blue]

155. I am a Floridan that remembers Jeb, Crist and Scott respective governships

Scott is the polar opposite of Bush as not even Republicans like him. Scott won again simply because people didn't like Crist, so it is not like people all of sudden have a glowing opinion of Scott.

[underpants]

10. Ordinary citizens have hardly met Hillary

They mostly know the caricature of her painted by the media and her under constant attack when Bill was President.

Jeb has to do a complete "I am NOT my brother" introduction of himself.

Bill in any picture with Hillary is a giant plus but the campaign has to be careful that he doesn't take all of the air out of the room.

[Blue_Adept]

120. Worse

He has to do that to the general public, but to conservatives he has to show he's much more to the right than his brother, many of whom felt he really didn't follow through on core conservative principles as his time in office went on.

[underpants]

121. True

I can't see anyone other Christie who has any shot in a general election that would be able to survive the primaries.

[bettyellen]

158. Christie is losing it FAST and he knows it, ha ha!

[xmas74]

165. I met her when Bill was campaigning in 1992.

Personally, I liked her, though she is often painted as the enemy by the media. She was obviously intelligent and I thought she seemed personable. (Of course, compared to Bill few are as warm and endearing. He really did take all the oxygen out of the room.)

She's stuck in my head all these years now as a positive so she must have done something right when a seventeen year old from a hick town in Missouri shook her hand.

[MineralMan]

11. Thank you for your pronouncement.

I will give it all the consideration it is due.

[GreatGazoo]

13. Bring on the betting pool.

I'll take Clinton:

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-bush-vs-clinton

[brooklynite]

58. Clinton is Doomed!!!

The trendline of this chart clearly shows that Bush will knock her out...sometime in 2018.

[stevenleser]

14. You forgot the "at Tennis" at the end of your subject line. nt

[mwooldri]

15. In terms of family history, I think you're correct.

Hillary Clinton doesn't have a close relative who while as President allowed a terrorist attack to happen on US soil, sent thousands of soldiers to Iraq to fight a senseless war and tanked the US economy in his last year of office.

In this case, Jeb Bush is completely unbeatable.

In the real world... Hillary is electable. We do need enough "shy Republicans" to vote Democratic though.

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. I agree with Nate Silvers that as things stand now - that line up would be a 50/50 shot

[Awsi Dooger]

185. I agree also, Hillary vs. Jeb seems very close to 50/50

Nobody else we nominate would threaten 50/50 against Jeb.

I hope the GOP screws up and nominates somebody else. In that case, I would be very confident in Hillary's chances.

Right now I would expect Hillary to lose a very tight race if Jeb is the opponent, and to defeat anyone else. It all depends on Obama's approval rating in 2016 and the right track/wrong track percentage. If those improve, Hillary can defeat Jeb narrowly.

We screwed up when we nominated Obama above Hillary in 2008. If you reverse that order, Hillary would have destroyed anyone in 2008 and 2012 and now Obama would be still immensely popular and poised to follow Hillary. In open races after one party has held the White House for exactly two terms, charisma and popularity are generally very important. That didn't fully apply to 2008 because Bush was so unpopular, following Iraq and Katrina. Anybody we nominated would have cruised. Fast forward 8 years and now we are in need of personal popularity. Obama would fit better than Hillary, who has polarized opinions dating more than 20 years.

Granted, it would have been difficult to apply strategy that far ahead and along those lines, but that's the way it worked out.

[still_one]

17. No one underestimates bush, but no one should overestimate jeb bush either. Terri Schiavo is

one of his shinning moments.

He is against abortion, same sex marriage, opposes a legal requirement to hire women and minorities, believes in keeping god in the public sphere, opposes the ACA expansion, wants to privatize social security, wants vouchers for school choice, opposes 'rights' to clean air and water, absolute right to gun ownership, opposes higher taxes on the wealthy, favors more military spending, supported his brother's Iraq invasion, and is against the Obama's administration negotiation with Iran, opposes incentives for green energy, does not believe in global warming, etc. etc. etc.

ordinary citizens do not relate to the bush family at all. However, many unfortunately relate to rand paul

[vankuria]

83. Jeb signed "Stand Your Ground" laws

[still_one]

85. thanks for pointing that out

[Stardust]

114. He also signed the Project for The New American Century. He's a Neocon. nt

[still_one]

116. No wonder he supports what his brother did

[Cha]

218. Right.. and America is going to the polls to push that agenda through in 2016 after 8 years of

President Obama.. who is @ 50% now.

Thanks for all the info on the FL bush, still one

[hrmjustin]

18. Did i just step on Free Republic?

[EL34x4]

41. No. They hate Jeb Bush over there.

And believe he would be soundly defeated by Hillary Clinton.

Ted Cruz, on the other hand, will rout Clinton in a 535-3 landslide victory!

[hrmjustin]

43. They believe Cruz can win?

[EL34x4]

64. Go take a peek over there.

They think Ted Cruz is the second coming of Ronald Reagan and everyone else better get out of the way. I'm surprised RimJob hasn't started banning the Cruz naysayers yet.

Cruz threads are reserved to fawning over Cruz's invincibility. Walker, Paul and Rubio threads are reserved to fawning over Cruz's invincibility.

[hrmjustin]

66. I will take your word for it.

[Sheepshank]

124. Regarding Rim Jobs zot management system

I don't think the Romney zotting fiasco went over all that well last time around. All it did was lose potention donors and alientated them badley enough they wouldn't be returning. I think Rim Job will be protecting his bottom line this time around.....but I could be wrong, stupid is as stupid does.

[Jim Lane]

170. Yes, they love Cruz, but Walker is also popular.

My reading there suggest that a Walker candidacy could be dangerous. Like McCain or Romney, he's seen by the general populace as someone who's more or less respectable, not a loonie, but unlike either of them he has cred with the loonies as well.

[workinclasszero]

63. Oh those batshit insane teabaggers!

Idiots....

[Renew Deal]

55. Another Jeb lover was tombstoned yesterday.

[hrmjustin]

56. Yes i saw.

I miss getting mirt notifications.

I am joining up next term.

[sharp_stick]

19. Wow deep

I'm sure everyone will give it all the attention it's due 18 months out from an election where neither candidate has won the nomination yet.

[2naSalit]

82. Oh My!!

[sharp_stick]

166. Feel free to use it

It can be so fitting sometimes.

[Iggo]

112. What a great gif.

Thankyouthankyouthankyou!!!!!

[sharp_stick]

167. I like it

the look on her face is fantastic.

[calimary]

172. Totally! I laughed out loud!

[lovemydog]

163. LOL!

[sharp_stick]

168. Sometimes

it's the only gif that fits a situation.

[H2O Man]

20. Respectfully disagree.

First, Hillary Clinton could beat Jeb Bush. Likewise, Jeb could beat her. Both outcomes are possible.

Second, if Jeb were to win, it would be for two reasons: [1] most importantly, the republican machine; and [2] the failure of a Clinton campaign to convince enough voters that it is in their best interests to vote for Hillary Clinton.

[delrem]

214. I like the attitude you bring to this place, H2O Man.

Calm and reasonable and open minded.
Anyway....

Jeb vs Hillary will be +$2billion vs +$2billion, from more or less the same donors. It might be seen as win-win, or lose-lose, depending on what side of the $$ divide you stand on.

But which candidate/party would win?

First thing I think of: the more or less thoughtless Republican voter wouldn't see the 18 month $4billion smoke and mirror show as odd, or distasteful. These are jackasses who think that American Enterprise Institute "tea party" astroturf is "grass roots", even while they stand in the shade of the bus they rode in on. They can't even feel their nose rings. Democrats and Independents, even third-way democrats, know that e.g. OWS, however disorganized and disjoint (perhaps in part *because* of that), is truly grass roots action. A +$2billion campaign, marketed like some "gets your laundry cleaner than the second leading brand" soap, will be hard for a lot of Dems and Inds to swallow, given who's paying for it. Most everybody understands the concept of an IOU and that when the money is that big the dues will have to be paid. To Wall St., to war profiteers, to the scum of the earth.

Second thing I think of: Anyone who identifies as "left" or "progressive" remembers being treated like shit by the third-way and their supporters (remember "fucking retards"?). Never listened to, ideas dismissed before hitting "the table", before even being voiced, all in a spirit of so-called "bipartisanship" that profits the wealthy. There seems to be NO attempt to explain/justify/defend recent history -- the ascension of the bankers, of the %.01 (TPP etc), or the PNAC war that started with Afghanistan, moved to Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen,... and which the new war resolution being promoted would extend indefinitely, arbitrarily, forever. Third-way has been openly hostile to "the left" on these major fronts, and this is true of third-way supporters at DU as well as elsewhere, and taking $2billion from the banks and %.01 to promote yourself as in "you're Everyday Americans and it's your time... to vote for Me!" does nothing to address the problem that this has created. How many times has a third-way supporter, now a Hillary supporter, said that their team doesn't need or even want "the left"? Well, just look at how third-way, on DU, has rolled out the Hillary campaign, with the one unifying mantra "haha, we have the money, the money is needed to win, and the left will never have the bankers/war-profiteers money".

Third thing I think of: both #1 and #2 above provide the total opposite of the "hope and change (for the better)" consciousness that drove Pres. Obama to victory. Jeb, on the other hand, has no such problem. Jeb's problem will be the opposite, will be convincing the diehard Republican voter that he's a big enough asshole - an even bigger asshole than his brother and father. Which isn't such an immense problem for Jeb to overcome. What I'm saying here is that in Hillary vs Jeb, $2billion each on a perfectly level Wall St. and war profiteer funded playing field, Jeb's route is already slicked whereas Hillary has GOTV problems. Unfortunately, Hillary chose this particular $$$ defined playing field and it defines her as much as it does Jeb.

Fourth thing I think of: gender and, secondarily, LGBT issues. Hillary has an advantage here, not because she's a woman, but because she's a Dem. IMO she's not the strongest voice on either (I think just about any solid progressive Dem would be a stronger voice). But I can't say... I'm ignorant. I recall defending Bill Clinton during the "sex scandals", more or less saying "c'mon, Bill Clinton is a total improvement on that demented warmongering Ronald Reagan, and Republican operatives are cooking these scandals up, offering rewards...", whereas none of the women in my family were having any of that. The women in my family, every one of them, looked at me with disdain for my dismissive apologetic attitude. They didn't like it, they didn't think it made for a good role model, they didn't like how Hillary was spinning it, it contradicted everything they believed in.

[get the red out]

21. I disagree

The Bush name is a lot worse than the Clinton name in this country.

[NCTraveler]

22. Yeah...That's some heavy shit there. nt.

[leftofcool]

23. What happened to my DU? This looks like Free Republic.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. Bookmarking

[femmocrat]

25. I disagree as well.

Not sure who these "ordinary citizens" are, but the bushes are not particularly relatable either! I'm not sure if I will support Hillary in the primaries until I see if anyone else declares. However, I think she is more "likable" than any of the bushes.

Women seem to prefer her and who are more "ordinary" than women?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. The only competitive race Bush lll ran he lost./NT

[riversedge]

27. Well not with your attitude we can't

[99Forever]

28. Ordinary citizens can relate to Jeb Bush?

You're joking, right?

I can't "relate" to any member of either of America's Royal Families.

I have earn my way through life.

[PoutrageFatigue]

29. The "fundamental" problem is that Jeb's last name is 'Bush'....I could beat him...

...there is no way that ANOTHER bush gets elected...

[snooper2]

30. NO CLINTON NO BUSH- Both of them should go hang out in Cuba for the summer

Bill can bring them cocktails on the beach and chimpy can be there building sand castles

[blm]

31. Ordinary citizens have forgotten how badly Bushes drive when they get behind the wheel?

Are you sure about who Jeb Bush is, or are you just trying to be funny?

[Calista241]

33. I don't know about Bush, but I don't think Hillary

Will get anywhere close to the turnout Obama got.

So while she may poll better, when it comes to motivating people to actually get out and go to the polls, I think that's where she'll show her weakness.

[RobinA]

122. This is One

of my concerns with any Dem. Obama got huge AA turnout in my swing state (PA). No one will get that this time around. I think that women will not support Hillary to the extent that Obama got black support. Jebber is just a wild card at this point, so who knows. I know that the people I know who are Republican can't wait to vote for the smart, sane Bush.

Beyond who could win, which it's too early to tell, the thought of Bush 3.0 vs Clinton 2.0 is just too depressing for words. This country is running on empty.

[stevenleser]

34. Hit and Run OP that has only been recc'ed by the OP themselves. nt

[hrmjustin]

47. Agreed!

[seabeyond]

53. consistent. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

35. It's not a matter of relating to Jeb because he's as unrelatable on the surface as they get.

Silver spoon mentality, governed as a bully. Not really the whole "I feel your pain" type of person.

Jeb's popularity in my state remains a mystery to me to date, although I suspect much of it came from the whole "Smarter Bush" image that was bestowed on him in contrast to his brother. But the man was truly a putrid governor who did a lot of harm to Florida and very little good.

[H2O Man]

36. Good points.

I consider Jeb to be more dangerous than his brother.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

38. Absolutely.

The thing is, he's not that much smarter, but he does look a lot smarter, and that's good enough to fool a lot of people.

[H2O Man]

39. Again, you've nailed it.

[1939]

68. Jeb Bush

While we may have severe policy disagreements with Jeb Bush on how a state should be run, he was a very effective governor administratively and did carry through his agenda. The man is far more competent than his brother and will be a tough opponent. Give the devil his due.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

71. Three letters: D.C.F.

And there's much more than that, but just take that as a starting point to counter any claim that Jeb Bush was supposedly an "effective administrator."

[seabeyond]

73. i think bushco got a lot fo their agenda too.... dont you? war, destruction of schools, wallstreet

finance,

supreme crt

corp greed.

nsa, torture

i think it was that time. caused a lot fo destruction. hence the obama win.

[sufrommich]

37. God, this place has become pathetic. nt

[stevenleser]

40. There are some silver linings in this OP. Namely that...

no one other than the OP has rec'ced it and even folks who don't like Hillary are refuting the idea she can't beat Jeb.

In comparison to the normal hate that comes with a Hillary OP, this is actually progress.

[boston bean]

60. hmmm check past history... has written some of the most flame bait

sexist misogynist crapola on this site, since he arrived...

I am truly amazed he still has an account.. but that's not for me to decide.

[annabanana]

42. Jeb Bush "regular people"?

v v v

[workinclasszero]

44. What a load of s***!

Wait until the batshit insane republican clown car occupants start debating!

Hillary will be the sole voice of reason in this campaign. If jebby wants the teabag nomination, he will have to go hard right.

It ain't going to work in the general. And Hillary is extremely popular in this country contrary to what the teahaddists on the right and the purists on the left think.

[trumad]

45. I'll bet you a grand right now?

[seabeyond]

52. post history should be taken into acct when reading this OP. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

135. Indeed...looks like wishful thinking

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

46. April Fool's Day was a couple weeks ago.

Jeb Bush is only slightly more relatable than Mitt Romney.

[Aerows]

196. Hell, my April Fool's Day post

of DU getting sold caught more folks than this idiocy did, and I stated the forum would now be moderated by the Kindom of Saudi Arabia.

[LeftishBrit]

48. Hope you're wrong!

And 'ordinary citizens' can really relate to someone who is the son of one president, brother of another, and used his position as governor to help shove his brother into the White House?

Hillary may have lived in the White House; but at least she wasn't practically born into it!

[seabeyond]

49. i get you have an issue with women, as you have clearly stated often. but, you should be

honest about that issue foremost in presenting this statement. yes. you would have a problem voting for a woman. i get it.

what is it you labeled yourself? herbavore? where you no longer have any interest in women cause you do not like their behavior?

this info has been freely given by you to du. you are not bothered, what you say about yourself. i am just trying to remember exactly what it was you stated.

[lpbk2713]

50. A lot of voters are familiar with the Bush family track record.

And just that may be enough to bring them out to vote against
another one no matter who the Democratic candidate is.

[Skinner]

51. She also has cooties. (nt)

[seabeyond]

57. oh, .... mg. i look up to see cooties, and actually was gonna go into a giggle with you....

and lookie who you are.

well really. that is fun. pure joy. i am thrilled with the cooties. i guess that is where we are going, so soon, into her run.

[spanone]

62. BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA

[seabeyond]

74. thank you. yes. i need to just keep that and hall it out, whenever we play

the cootie game. i remember that. love cooties. thank you.

[sheshe2]

205. A cootie catcher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

79. I hear they're an excellent source of protein.

And when fried, have sort of a nutty flavor.

[BainsBane]

100. girl germs. nt

[brooklynite]

54. Jeb was popular as Gov of Florida; Hillary was popular as Senator of NY

Clinton 2008 and 2016: There’s No Comparison

Hillary Clinton is polling about 20 points higher than she was around this time eight years ago, even though the polls pit her against strong candidates who probably won’t run, like Elizabeth Warren.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/13/upshot/huge-head-start-for-clinton-but-the-big-race-is-far-from-won.html?rref=upshot&abt=0002&abg=0

[brooklynite]

59. Simple question: who CAN beat Jeb Bush?

...and I mean, among candidates who will actually be running.

[PassingFair]

81. Lincoln Chafee?

I mean, if all democrats hold their noses and vote for him, as has been suggested with Hillary,
you can add many repukes who will vote for him as well.

[brooklynite]

87. That's an implausible "if"...

The average Democratic voter (as well as the average Republican and Independent voter) don't frequent political blogs to find who who they need to suck up and support. They need to find the choice attractive, which in part requires the candidate to offer a compelling campaign message. Other than the fact that Chafee was opposed to IWR (for which I see no sign that the average voter -- again, not political bloggers -- cares about), how does he raised the multiple hundreds of millions of dollars to get his message out?

[PassingFair]

90. They are called "debates".

Unless Hillary declares that there will be none.

Which wouldn't surprise me.

[brooklynite]

91. Right...just like there were no debates last time.

Politics must be fun if you can just keep making things up to be outrages about.

[PassingFair]

95. She did poorly in the debates.

Or am I only remembering what I want to?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

143. For what it's worth she is recognized as a very good debater./NT

[rurallib]

61. the election is 18 months away - lots will change

Jebby has many skeletons in his closet as do all the clowns in the clown car.

This election may be so brutal and ugly that many Americans will stay away sadly. This may hurt Dems.
Ugly and brutal is a republican strategy to suppress the vote.

[hrmjustin]

65. Thanks for the hit and run thread but I think DU saw right though this bullshit!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. ...

I support Hillary because she can bring change to our country [View all]

President Obama stabilized the country but it should be Hillary Clinton to become the catalyst of change in our country.

-Harmony Blue

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6105656

Hillary has the best chance of beating Jeb Bush

any other candidate would crumble up against Jeb Bush. Most Floridians know what Jeb Bush is capable of but many have always underestimated him.

Hillary is also the one that can make changes on the world stage because she is respected worldwide.

-Harmony Blue

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6109651

[seabeyond]

78. wow. huh? interesting. now i sit in wonder, lol.... nt

[DURHAM D]

131. Someone forgot which sock they were wearing.

[zappaman]

134. whoops!

[seabeyond]

136. gosh, i never think about this crap. but that is just what it feels like.

thank you.

[DURHAM D]

141. See post #140 below. nt

[seabeyond]

144. i was on the phone when replying to you. good to see you are still around.

and.... lol, since my mind does not go in this direction, too funny when brought to my attention. ya. post 140. interesting.

[BlueJazz]

70. She won't be running against Jeb. She'll be running against a ton of money plus...

...a ton of crooked voting supervisors. Yeah, I live in Florida and I don't put anything past these criminals.

I hope your nightmare doesn't come true. I'd have to put up with Jeb AND pRick Scott.

[Pooka Fey]

213. +1

[LordGlenconner]

72. Thank you, Nostradamus

[Jamastiene]

76. Well, I certainly don't want Jeb Bush all up in my house with disease.

That's the Lee Mercer Jr way of saying I'm voting against Jeb Bush, no matter what.

[Warren DeMontague]

77. I think it is a mistake to underestimate ANY GOP nominee for President.

The rest of your premise, however, is not true.

[Lil Missy]

84. Jeb bush eats kittens n/t

[Dr Hobbitstein]

86. Trollololol

[one_voice]

88. While I agree we shouldn't dismiss/underestimate him...

Hillary is hugely popular with a large segment of the population. Then there are those that may not be 'in love with her' (for lack of a better term) but like her politics. Hillary absolutely can beat Jeb.

If your only reason if that he was a popular gov, she was a popular first lady, presidential candidate, popular SoS, and private citizen. No, I think you're wrong.

[Beacool]

92. Utter nonsense.

The son of a millionaire Republican can relate better to ordinary people than the woman who didn't even own a home until 2000?

Where do you live? My mother lived in West Palm Beach for years and So. FL is my second home. Jeb was not that popular and Hillary beats both him and Rubio in recent FL polls.

[seabeyond]

96. i think he stepped down when he did cause he could not win.

am i off? i am not in florida.

[Beacool]

106. He wasn't as popular as he thinks he was.

Democtrats don't want him and conservatives think he's a RINO.

[jwirr]

93. I don't think that being the governor of Florida means anything to the average voter in other states

But it does to those of us who see what a mess Florida is in. That would make me vote no bush thank you.

[Yo_Mama]

97. I think she would kick him through the floorboards.

But I'm not sure that Jeb gets the GOP nomination. I think Walker from Wisconsin has an excellent chance at it.

[BainsBane]

98. Polls suggest otherwise

Interesting how you turned on a dime after claiming to be a Clinton suporter.

[sheshe2]

206. His own mother does not want him!

[BainsBane]

101. Just like President Graham

who was undefeatable, right?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

102. Nah, not at all true. But, Jeb and friends can steal by preventing up to 5% of us from

voting, but your assessment couldnt be more wrong.

Dont take my word for it, take almost any informed observer.

[ann---]

103. He's a Bush

and a goper - that's reason enough for ME not to vote for him.

[WillTwain]

104. Hillary will destroy Walker, Bush will be watching the election like us, except for the mansion.

[arcane1]

105. Wouldn't that be underestimate voters, not Jeb himself?

[AgingAmerican]

107. Ordinary people can relate to Bush?

What fucking planet do you come from?

[LanternWaste]

109. a lot of people who pretend to know what the "ordinary citizen" can or cannot relate to.

There certainly are a lot of people who pretend to know what the "ordinary citizen" can or cannot relate to. For their part though, they studiously supply objective sources to support the editorial allegation.

The objective and unbiased evidence you provided for us for example, was stunning in its depth.

[Iggo]

110. I'm an ordinary citizen. I can't relate to Bush.

(This isn't the old who-would-you-rather-have-a-beer-with dumbness, is it?)

[Vinca]

111. Disagree. For starters, I wouldn't be surprise if Jeb failed to be the candidate.

People may not be jumping up and down over Hillary, but most remember the Bush years less fondly than the Bill Clinton years.

[Revanchist]

113. I said it before and I'll say it again

If this election does wind up to be between Clinton and Bush we need to find a way to get Ross Perot Jr. to run as an independent.

[HERVEPA]

117. Wow. You just kind of make stuff up, don't you.

[LovingA2andMI]

118. Well....the problem is...

Not if that Hillary can beat Jeb Bush but if her and her legend of supporters can browbeat True Progressives into supporting her, without a proper Primary. Somehow, someway I believe that will be the overriding question.

The other candidates are coming. Just because Hillary has declared first, the fight for the Democratic Primary Nomination is FAR FROM OVER in April 2015. The Browbeaters would be wise to remember that.....and a bit of history that was made in 2008, where the candidate of inevitability lost. Wonder what that candidate's name was, by the way....

[leftofcool]

127. There will be no browbeating. Progressives will vote for who they want.

Support who you want in the primaries, vote for who ever you want in the general election. If Hillary is the nominee, by all means vote for someone else in the general if you don't like her.

[LovingA2andMI]

132. Oh, there is Browbeating....

Perhaps not by you, but there definitely is. The worse thing about it is all the possible Democratic Candidates for the Nomination have not declared their candidacy yet, however many want to force other to make a decision to back Hillary without a proper Primary Contest. That is disturbing.

[seabeyond]

125. this is interesting in just the visual. clinton vs bush. now, as a society, we were all better off

during clinton two positions, and we were so many fucked during bush two term.

for the uninformed, ..... they are gonna point to clinton, remembering when.

[pnwmom]

128. This poll in Florida from a year ago put Hillary way ahead.

Have Floridians suddenly decided they love JEB?

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/florida/release-detail?ReleaseID=2037

Clinton tops several possible Republican candidates in Florida:
49 - 41 percent over Bush;

The most recent poll, taken after Hillary's email kerfuffle, put the two candidates within the poll's margin of error: a statistical tie.

So even in the state where they know him the best, the voters don't prefer him over HRC.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2015/3/31/quinnipiac_poll_clin.html

[DemocratSinceBirth]

129. 0/10

[KamaAina]

130. Your concern is duly noted.

[William769]

133. I live in Florida and I can say you are full of...

[Rex]

148. It's so early too! I guess they cannot wait!

Dam that logo!

[yuiyoshida]

137. Isn't this like

Predicting the results of the WORLD SERIES? The season hasn't started yet.

[muriel_volestrangler]

138. I was going to accuse 2 people of recommending a parody, but I see you're one of them

so only one DUer fell for "people can relate to the son of a president, the grandson of a senator with dubious dealings with the Nazis, and the great grandson of the guy who put up the money for the Walker Cup in golf. Plus another rich banker".

[Orsino]

139. Give Jeb a year and a half, plus the entire roster of Bush 41/43 consiglieres...

...and he still won't be ready to debate Sec. Clinton.

[pinboy3niner]

140. OMG! Who are you and what have you done with CK_John?

[LittleBlue]

142. I fear a Jeb/Rubio ticket

They'll both go on Telemundo speaking fluent Spanish. Their families are diverse looking. If one were to formulate the perfect families to capture the Latino vote, you couldn't find a better mix. Rubio's wife is the all-American cheerleader (she was for the Dolphins), and Jeb's wife is actually from Mexico. She looks very AmerIndian. Jeb is a known Hispanophile, and that isn't a derogatory term. He really does seem to love Hispanic cultures. Rubio will tempt the Cuban community from Florida with the immigrant success story. He likes gangster rap.

This will piss off many anti-immigrant Republicans. But if Jeb should make it past the primary, which I'm hoping won't happen, Houston we have a problem. The usual strategies won't work against them.

Not to mention they are both from Florida. Throw in FL and the Hispanic vote, and we are in deep trouble. How are we going to counter that? As far as I can tell, none of our candidates speak fluent Spanish.

[OKNancy]

153. can't happen... from the same state.

Against the Constitution

[nitpicker]

211. It could happen, but there are difficulties with it

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/vicepresident.asp

Snopes explains (see above) that if there is a same-state ticket, THAT state's electors can only vote for one of the two. ((I note they can't have the second vote go to another party's candidate if that third person is also of the same state.))

There are, however, practical difficulties to this. Snopes points out it would not matter too much if it was a NV-NV ticket, as all that would be abandoned for the second person would be NV's electoral votes. However, the Bush/Cheney ticket ((once decided on)) had to have Cheney switch his residency back from TX to WY to not lose TX's electoral vote for that part of the ticket ((and thus have a Bush/Lieberman term)).

That is why it is virtually certain that there will not be a Jeb/Rubio ticket, nor a Clinton/Gillebrand one.

[Harmony Blue]

183. People are not taking this seriously

But if Jeb Bush is the Republican nominee he can definitely pull California, Georgia, Texas, Alabama and Florida. New York would be a toss up.

Jeb Bush is the one that has been a big proponent for pro life especially with the "choose life" license plates that I see everywhere in Florida. The vast majority of this support comes from women in the pro life movement.

Bush being fluent in Spanish will definitely help him relate with a lot of Americans but also add much needed change of pace for the Republican party. I am afraid people don't understand or don't know much about Jeb Bush and they think it will be an easy victory for the Democratic party. Hillary is the best currently but I am not sure her best can beat Jeb Bush.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

197. GA, TX, and AL have all been in the Republican column since 1980. *

As for NY Hillary beats Bush by nearly thirty points:

59 - 31 percent over Paul, compared to 61 - 26 percent in December


http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/new-york-state/release-detail?ReleaseID=2179

*except for GA which WJC carried in 1992 in a three man race where he got a plurality...


We shall see about FL...Bush shouldn't be fighting for his home state.


P.S. Bush is trailing Hillary 71-26% among Hispanics:



http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jeb-bush-trails-hillary-clinton-hispanics-polls-show/story?id=30123472

[bettyellen]

222. If they do that, they'll lose the racist segment of GOPsnd

And probably only win older and more conservative Latino voters.
I think Hillary paired with Castro would be hard to beat!

[libodem]

146. If KKKARL is involved

Expect lying, cheating, and thieving to be the order of the day.

I think they have every intention of vote rigging, role purging, and electronic vote machine tampering.

They don't fight fairly. It's not popularity.

Although there is wicked irrational hatred instilled in certain redneck hillbilly factions, to be intensely opposed, to anything Clinton. The extremely ignorant are already convinced.

Conservative brains are wired to be shocked and disgusted by ordinary human behavior. They excuse mistakes for themselves and condemn others for the same behavior. They wont play fair. And they just think you are stupid for trying to play fairly. Crooks and liars. Unworthy opponents.


They use guilt and shame and never feel a bit themselves. No bigger hypocrites on the planet.

Selfish, petty, lying, liars,

Now,....let me tell you how I really feel....

[Rex]

147. LOL!

[krawhitham]

150. Is Jeb's last name still Bush?

then he can not win

[Thinkingabout]

151. The statement of "If people underestimate Jeb Bush they are in for a rude awakening. " can be

applied to anyone, also Hillary Clinton. Nothing new here.

[Chemisse]

152. Who cares? Jeb won't be the nominee.

The money has flowed toward him but primary voters don't seem to like him much.

[notadmblnd]

154. In your dreams

the US is suffering from Bush fatigue. J.E. Bush will not be elected. Hell little Georgie wasn't even elected. He was selected.

[DawgHouse]

156. Hang on, I'm gonna need my waders for this thread. nt

[nutsnberries]

157. Steph Miller was just saying

can you imagine the press running to catch him at his campaign stops?
She can't. I can't either.
I'm not thrilled with HRC being the Dem nominee but I think she can beat any of the clowns that are likely to be the Rep nominee.

Jeb Bush is a snooze fest for the 2016 election.

[RBInMaine]

159. Bullshit.

[NaturalHigh]

160. Seriously?

I'd be willing to take odds on that.

[DonCoquixote]

161. IBTL

What's the matter, are you afraid if we get a woman president, the good old boys at the he man woman haters club aka discussionist might be upset?

I may have my misgivings about Hillary, but Jeb Bush is no man of the people. Even the conservatives think he is too nice, thus why they did nto elect jeb's handpicked seat warmer Bill McCollum and instead voted for Rick Scott.

[kpete]

162. tee hee

[Liberal_in_LA]

171. stop it

[CoffeeCat]

178. I agree that she cannot beat Bush...

At least 30 percent of our party (the base of liberals/Progressives) are not enthused about Hillary as our nominee.

The base is the stalwart faction of our party that votes--but also volunteers during campaign season. I see flat interest in both voting and volunteering. She just won't galvanize our party like Obama or Howard Dean did.

Republicans hate her.

I just don't see her appealing to Independents.

In Presidential elections--if both parties elect viable candidate that invigorate their respective bases--the Independents decide the election. Usually, this is the way that most elections go.

With Clinton as our nominee, we'll have an underwhelmed base and a candidate who does not appeal to Independents.

I really think it's a recipe for a big loss.

Just look at 2008. Clinton was the inevitable candidate. All it took was a junior Senator to knock her off. It doesn't take much, because so many in our party want something different, something new.

I find her inevitability this time around--depressing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

184. Most experts disagree with you as does the oddsmakers and she has a healthy lead in the polls...

Oddsmakers:


http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2016/winner



Experts


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/04/why-hillary-clinton-is-probably-going-to-win.html?mid=twitter_nymag


And she has a healthy lead in the polls:



http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-bush-vs-clinton


I find her candidacy--exhilarating.

[Depaysement]

180. The election is over 1 1/2 years from now

Bit early to prognosticate, isn't it?

Hillary was pretty popular in upstate NY for a Dem.

One thing you are right about - underestimating Jeb Bush.

[lonestarnot]

187. Really...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

190. Why is Bush The Juggernaut only at 17% and in a dead heat with a governor from a small state?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_republican_presidential_nomination-3823.html

Conventional wisdom suggests he will eventually win the nomination but those numbers are flipping embarrassing for the brother and son of presidents.

[Tanuki]

191. How do you suppose Hillary has polled as America's most admired woman for the past 12 years

in a row, according to Gallup, if "the ordinary citizen cannot relate to" her?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/166646/obama-clinton-continue-reign-admired-man-woman.aspx

[Aerows]

195. If an ordinary citizen

cannot comprehend that another Bush in the White House would be a disaster, our nation belongs in the toilet it will descend into that will come with the election of another Bush.

If even 50% of our electorate think electing Jeb Bush is a good idea, we are fucking doomed, one way or the other.

I may not love Hillary, and I long for another primary candidate, but my GOD, I don't think that badly of the entire US electorate that we would somehow be stupid enough to choose Jeb fucking Bush.

Do you think so poorly of your country and its citizens!?

EDIT: And you recced your own post? Good Lord.

[treestar]

198. Don't see why not

Obama got Florida once.

And Hillary could win without FL.

[Initech]

201. The BFEE cannot win without stealing an election. We all know that.

This isn't 2000 or 2004 though, we're ready for them.

[chillfactor]

202. I am an "ordinary citizen"....

and I relate to Hillary very well...I do not relate to another Bush at all....

[MFM008]

203. Fantasy

Jeb Bush win California? NY? Are you related to him?
I live in WA State, we haven't voted red since 1984. We voted for Dukakis for Gods sake.
Unless she drops dead, she wins and im not so sure she couldn't win dead.
Bush and the rest of the Insane clown posse will wet themselves against a Clinton/Castro Ticket.

[LeftyMom]

204. The rest of the population doesn't share your fear and hatred of women.

[YoungDemCA]

207. This is a trollbait thread

nt

[sheshe2]

208. I am an 'ordinary' citizen.

And a woman to boot, I can relate.

I call bullshit to your Op.

[Scootaloo]

209. Sure she can. All she needs is an axe handle and a few minutes, she can clobber the crap out of him!

[gwheezie]

210. ordinary citizen here

I like Hillary. I don't like Jeb.

[eridani]

212. All she'd have to do to beat Bush is to ask whether people would rather have the economy

--of the 90s or of the 00s.

[stevenleser]

215. Political analysis is clearly not your thing. May I suggest bowling? Nt

[B Calm]

216. I remember a bumper sticker that said THERE IS DIRT UNDER EVERY BUSH.

The Bush Crime Family has a way of winning elections and none of them are legal. Saying that, you may be right.

[Savannahmann]

217. I don't think Hillary can beat Rand Paul.

Hell, I don't think that Hillary can beat Rick Perry and he's been indicted.

[B Calm]

219. So is there any candidate that can beat Jeb Bush and his crime family

from stealing another election?

[GOLGO 13]

220. ...in arm wrestling? Maybe.

She's a tough cookie. Won't crumble under pressure as easily as a Bush.