Obama's Biggest Flaw

[WillTwain]

He is too mentally stable.

Great leaders need some level of neurosis. At the very least. a great leader needs to be obsessive compulsive or simply enjoy a good fight. FDR had a chip on his shoulder about the elitists he grew up with. He loved to see them squirm.

Bernie is OCD about the middle-class, Warren is obsessed with economic fairness, Reagan was obsessed with the grandeur of feudalism. George W. Bush was obsessed with crayons and Condoleezza Rice.

Barack is a level headed man of reason. How the hell did we ever fall for that? Obama is one hell of a solid guy and this is not good.

The second flaw he had was his belief that there is good in all men, that both parties were fighting for the common good. This misjudgment led him to squander his first two years in office. Obama is the perfect friend, son, husband and father. This does not always make a great president.

[Skittles]

1. apologists have questioned whether "we knew" repukes would destroy the country via obstructionism

you'd have to be complete idiot not to know the answer is HELL FUCKING YES!!!!!!!!!

[WillTwain]

2. Agreed, it is their history, every act they ever did was to stop progress.

The idea that compromise and collecting ideas from both sides would lead to a better America was a huge mistake.

[PrefersaPension]

24. Remember Newt Gingrich?

[WillTwain]

25. How about Tom Delay?

[WillTwain]

50. This started in 1994.

the initial coup was the congressional class of 1994.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

52. +1,000 n/t

[bravenak]

3. "Crayons and Condeleeza. " So true.

Obama is actually a great President because of his mental stability. Republicans have lost their minds and it shows. He drove them nuts by being normal while they practised violent racism and ignorant bigotry for the last 6+ years. He helped them show how fucked up they are compared to him. History will be kind to Obama. Not so much for his detractors.

[WillTwain]

5. I see your point and partially agree.

Being a great guy works against you when dealing with sociopaths. One thing that becomes obvious as you grow older, you need to get in w acked-out people's grills or you will get trampled.

[bravenak]

7. True. I'm known to jump up on chairs and get crazy with people. When they deserve it, of course.

Maybe that's why I admire his ability to be so chill.

[WillTwain]

9. Have you ever considered running for office?

[bravenak]

10. Maybe after I go back to school next fall. I have thought about it and decided I need a degree.

Don't want to get Scott Walkered, so I applied.
I four years I'll be 38. Perfect time to start.

[WillTwain]

12. Go for it.

[WillTwain]

8. History will beat up Republicans.

But will be mixed on Obama - great on one hand, ineffective on the other. The greatest issue of our time, the wealth gap, has gotten worse.

[bravenak]

11. I don't think the Prez can do jack about the wealth gap, personally.

It will take guillotines.

[WillTwain]

13. We disagree,

Guillotines definitely can work, but leadership matters a lot.

He should have "got in their grills" about raising the federal minimum wage to a living wage. See what I mean bout being OCD or neurotic? FDR shamed the pricks and the masses loved him and got behind him. All the guillotines in the world will do nothing if Dick Cheney is putting your head in it.

[samsingh]

4. his greatest flaw is that he's overconfident

this was clearly visible in the way he approached the first debate in the last election.

he doesn't reach out to his base enough thinking that he has all the support he needs.

[WillTwain]

6. He may have over-estimated the general public, giving him too much confidence.

He may have thought a logical argument would be consumed by Joe Average - major miscalculation.

[samsingh]

14. absolutely - but the reality is that the public is not that smart

[WillTwain]

16. Which only makes it more confusing that he does not understand

how to communicate. Bush went back and forth between an junior high student and a college frat boy. This worked perfectly.

[Doctor_J]

15. I don't know. that would mean that he actually believed in 2008 that he would

"insist on a public option", "renegotiate NAFTA", "stand with labor", "Close Guantanamo", put an end to the Bush tax cuts, stop the wars. Between those and the fact that he's personally in favor of fracking, offshore drilling, school profitization, healthcare profitization, NCLB/RTTT, and only joined the gay marriage movement when it could no longer be denied, I think he's just another triangulating pseudodem who panders to liberals when he needs them. He certainly seems to be much more moral than WJC and a far better man on every front than his predecessor. I just think that everyone who wants to hold office higher than dog catcher these days has to toe the line

[WillTwain]

17. Insisting was never in his DNA.

I think he believed in liberal causes, but his makeup would never insist on anything.

I heard in the early days of the financial crisis he threw out the "Swedish model," socialism, as a solution. Larry Summers told him to sit in the corner and be quiet and that was it. I paraphrased the story but it is the general story.

He is too smart to buy into his own policies. He is going along to get along.

[Marr]

19. You don't get to be president of the United States by being modest.

I don't think he's averse to insisting at all. I think he's one of the most talented politicians we've ever had-- he just isn't on my side on a whole lot of issues. He's a triangulating, big business neoliberal. A very talented, intelligent, telegenic one-- but still.

[WillTwain]

21. He has an intact ego but it was not from coming up the hard way.

It was not battle tested. Because of this, a big ego was not enough. It was not buttressed by the college of hard knocks - a bit fragile.

[RobinA]

26. He's Not

a fighter by any stretch.

[WillTwain]

30. Laid back is not a good thing for a president- makes a great surfer or professor.

Not a president.

[Marr]

18. I agree. So many of the people who defend him seem to think

that pointing to his likely real positions is the same as smearing him personally. It isn't-- except insofar as it highlights his dishonesty in campaigning (which is hardly going to shock anyone).

Looking at what he's actually fought for, rather than what he talks about, it'd be hard to say he's anything but a big business neoliberal. That isn't a personal attack, it's just reality. I expect most neoliberals think they're doing their course is the right one. People tend to believe that, no matter what their chosen course is.

[WillTwain]

20. Was his campaigning dishonest or simply not backed with guts born of passion

There seemed to be no commitment.

When he sat in on those first meetings, I bet he was floored by Summers and the alleged "liberals."

Then again, maybe his campaign was all bullshit. I do not know.

[Marr]

22. He picked the team that made up those meetings.

I doubt he was surprised by their positions. I think he's exactly what he appears to be, and he's actually been very effective at achieving his policy goals, overall. Those goals just didn't often lineup with his campaign talk.

[WillTwain]

23. I am not freeing him from blame, but the team was sort of picked for him.

The financial crisis was being pitched by Hank Paulsen and the boys. There was a belief that changing the team in the middle of the crisis would not go well.

Who knows how much influence he had in picking the team? His book will be a fun read.

[RobinA]

28. I Tend

to go with the "not backed by guts" scenario. I truly believe he thought he would close Quantanamo. Or, let's say he had some passing notion that he would close Quantanamo. I don't actually think he was particularly dishonest.

But I'm also not disappointed that he didn't turn out to be the liberal he was supposed to be, because I never thought he was a liberal and I didn't think he ran as one. People heard what they wanted to hear in that respect.

[WillTwain]

31. That is very true.

He ran on change not specifics.

[Mike Nelson]

27. Obama will be considered one of the great Presidents...

...got the country back on track after the failed GWB ideals of "war and poor". I think he'll be helping the next Administration, too!

[WillTwain]

29. Above average but no way great.

100 years from now he will be viewed as ineffective to correct capitalism's dominance over the 99 %.

[MuttLikeMe]

32. Um, wrong.

He will DEFINITELY be viewed as great

[WillTwain]

33. Why?

[MuttLikeMe]

34. He killed bin laden

he reached out to Cuba, Iran, got healthcare enacted, I don't even have time to list all the history-making things he's done

[WillTwain]

35. I would love to see the list.

Reached out to Cuba - wow.

Reached out to Iran i like every other democratic president.

Healthcare was inevitable and may have been stronger if Hillary won in 2008.

He got Bin Laden - thanks but isis is rolling along.

For the most part your big four will be footnotes in history - except healthcare.

On the other hand, poverty is up, wages are down, Social Security is under attack, healthcare is still too expensive for many and did little for the 85% that have health care coverage from jobs.

ACA is great but far from finished - the Heritage Foundation designed it so it is still way behind Europe.

Overall, this is not greatness. Check out Lincoln, FDR, Teddy, Washington, Jefferson and LBJ if you want to see greatness.

[MuttLikeMe]

36. It's greatness to me - and a lot of other people

Sorry if you can't see it.

[WillTwain]

37. It's above average (B-) to me - and many others.

[MuttLikeMe]

38. That's cool. Time will ultimately tell, though.

I just hope that all of Obama's many accomplishments (and there are many) don't get overlooked because of the color of his skin.

[WillTwain]

39. Ridiculous, I am darker than him.

[MuttLikeMe]

40. Nah. That ain't ridiculous.

Believe me, I wish it was; but it's not.

[Doctor_J]

42. Well, you can always blame it on that

But his complete lack of major policy accomplishments will also be a factor

[MuttLikeMe]

44. I know. We shouldn't have anymore black presidents for that reason.

Shit gets too complicated when all you want to do is continually put him down for all his failures and the racists and the KKK/teabaggers are agreeing with you. Gets REALLY awkward.

[WillTwain]

45. Man, do not go there. Who the hell said we shouldn't have anymore black presidents. Same old crap.

I praise the pres for everything good he does. I gave him a b- and called him too smart in this thread and too mentally stable and exceptional. What do you want?

If you think the minimum wage going ten years without passing legislation to raise it is heroic leadership, I cannot continue this conversation.

The minimum wage was an insult back in 2008 when he was elected - poverty level for a full time worker. It has gotten much worse since he took the job. And you think a president - who gives a shit what color he is - is great when so many people are suffering. How the hell he did not get it raised in his first two years is amazing.

If he got universal health care, raised the minimum wage and expanded Social Security, I would be carving his face on Mt. Rushmore myself. Give it up.

By the way, I am the same complexion as Barack. So put that in your pipe.

[MuttLikeMe]

48. Calm down, man.

Don't get so defensive. I never said that's what you said.

[WillTwain]

49. I am sooooooooo tired of the racial references every time someone dares to question Obama.

You have no idea how old it gets. I have been attacked for no reason far too many times. it is an insult and a waste of everybody's time. Another thing, this has nothing to do with defensiveness, it is a nice way to frame someone as having a reason to be defensive. Naturally, a person will defend their position, this does not make them defending an ulterior motive, which is another comment I have heard (not you).

I never said anything about not having anymore black presidents. Please do not do that to people. This is a discussion board. If someone is obviously a racist, go after them. I have no, none, zero problem with the color of the presidents skin.

I have the same complexion as Obama.

[Skinner]

51. The Affordable Care Act is the most important piece of social policy since the Great Society. (nt)

[WillTwain]

53. Nobody is arguing that.

it is still lame compared to nearly every major country. It does some good things, but let's face it the insurance companies and the Heritage Foundation wrote most of it. Look at United Healthcare stock. It is through the roof.

There is little doubt, given the critical situation that the U.S. Health care system was in, any Democrat elected in 2008 was going to get something from congress to sign. This was about the minimum.

To think we are thrilled at the "accomplishment" of eliminating pre-existing conditions and bankruptcy from our system shows how awful it was.

Many believe the president is the reason we did not pass universal care.

Yes, it is a big improvement, but it was way over due and Hillary may have gotten much more.

Perspective is always necessary.

[Skinner]

54. Actually, the person I was replying to did in fact argue...

...that Obama has a "complete lack of major policy accomplishments" (link) This argument is laughable.

And while we are on the topic of laughable arguments, the claim that "the president is the reason we did not pass universal care" is also laughable.

[WillTwain]

55. I think denying it is equally laughable.

Obama appointed Sen. Max Baucus to be the architect of the ACA. Baucus has always been staunchly against universal health care. Actually, Obama threw out the idea publicly in the opening months of negotiations.

Baucus is famous for his intense ties to the insurance companies. He credited an executive from Wellpoint for writing the ACA. Check the link for his ringing endorsement.

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/29/baucus-thanks-wellpoint-vp-liz-fowler-for-writing-health-care-bill/

So, who gets the last laugh. Obama is clearly responsible for not winning universal health care for tens of millions of still uninsured Americans.

I just try to be fair. He deserves credit but let's keep it in perspective.

And the Great Society cannot be compared to the ACA.

[Skinner]

56. Baucus controlled ACA becasue Baucus was the chair of Senate Finance.

Obama didn't give Baucus squat. ACA had to go through Baucus no matter what. Single payer was a complete nonstarter. It never had a chance in the Senate Finance committee or the Senate as a whole.

And I did not claim that ACA was comparable to the Great Society.

[Doctor_J]

57. Heritage Care is a debacle, and that's a very kind assessment of it

The insurance companies are now part of the government. The federal government now compels every person in the US to give them money which they then give to for-profit entities which in turn parcel out as little healthcare as they can legally get away with, making their "clients" wade through stacks of paper, follow up two or three times, and then, in the best case, pay 3 times what people in other countries do, and get worse service for their money.

Heritage Care will prevent us from having an actual healthcare system for at least 50 years. This is what happen when a republican plan is enacted, even if pseudodems did the enacting.

[Skinner]

58. "Debacle" is a strange word for something that is working...

...to slash the number of Americans without health insurance.

Yeah, I get it: you'd rather we did nothing. But regardless of your opinion of th law, it is simply false to claim that It is not a "major policy accomplishment." If the vociferous Republican opposition is any indication, I think it's obvious that even they realize it is a major accomplishment.

[Doctor_J]

60. comparing the VRA, CRA, Medicare and Medicaid to the heritage foundation health insurance

scam actually sinks to the level of sickening. When I explain to my grandchildren what happened to the party and why it's pretty much dead, obamacare and its fan club will play a major role. When Gingrich and rmoney were the ones selling it, Krugman called it the profit protection and middleman multiplication act. I agree

[Doctor_J]

41. And a lot of people still think Smirk was a great president.

ths proves absolutley nothing

[Cosmocat]

63. I think he isa darn fine president, but that isn't how he will be viewed

From Carter/Reagen on, the republican party has increasingly adapted the capacity to define presidents how they want.

Reagen GREAT, Clinton a disgrace ...

Bush II functionally the worst disaster this country has seen, and nothing. He will be forgotten. Not vilified and held as the standard for horrible presidents like he should be.

They will snark at Barrack Obama and democrats will do what they have for the last six years, hid in a corner.

The republican's snark, unchallenged, will become the accepted reality.

[eridani]

46. That is a flaw on domestic issues only

When it comes to looking for common ground with Iran and Cuba, it isn't bug--it's a feature.

[WillTwain]

47. Absolutely, The rest of the world is normal - no baggers.

[Solomon]

59. This thread is

full of shit.

[liberal_at_heart]

61. I don't like how he favors business leaders over union leaders. What happened to the community

organizer? Now he's the business organizer.

[Cali_Democrat]

62. Obama's problem is that he's too stable?

[Cosmocat]

64. He didn't assume shit

he campaigned on being the adult and upheld his campaign pledge.

He isn't a moron.

He knew republicans are jackasses.

FURTHER, he didn't "squander" shit his first two years.

There is NOTHING he could have done differently.

People want to think if just was TOUGHER things would have been different.

Democrats still would have been weak, cowardly and worthless, republicans assholes regardless of what he "did."

Nothing he could have done or said would have changed it one bit, in fact, if he had "acted tough" it likely would have given ACTUAL REALITY to some of the negative shit republican's spewed and hurt his change at winning a second term.

And, for the record, his "problem" is that he is a democrat, a president with the party that is worthless and is vilified with every ounce of energy and emotion by the other party.

[Cha]

65. That's right, Cosmocat.. "he didn't squander shit his first two years". Thank you.

[Rex]

66. So you are saying you have no flaws or that the POTUS should be a perfect human being?

Speaking of flaws...oh right you cannot respond. Hammered out of existence.